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[biancospino]

votecount

Votecount 1-XXII

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to hammer, or 6 to decide for no execution.

camelCasedSnivy (3)

: Gamma Emerald, Thomith, davesaz

DragonEater70 (3):

Hu Tao, ssbm_Kyouko, Katsuki

Naerys (2):

camelCasedSnivy, KittyTacky

Thomith (2):

JacksonVirgo, Black

Katsuki (2):

Naerys, DragonEater70

notes

• The deadline is due in (expired on 2024-01-07 07:46:06).
  
• You can find the combined mod ISO here
  
• ssbm_Kyouko is V/LA on weekends

[davesaz]

What bugs me is

any

avatar with motion. I'd prefer the software didn't even allow it.

[davesaz]

Almost stole the pagetop by accident but biancospino managed to get the 3rd post in while mine came up in preview.

[Katsuki]

Jesus every time I see my avatar I cringe

its cute. We could've been friends if didn't have fangs and ears this game.

So
A. I initially read this as a scumclaim
B. Even if you scumread me, why can't we be friends? Alignment in a game of mafia has nothing to do with how cool a person is outside of the game. I've definitely (or at least tried to) befriend people as opposite alignment.

I left out the word 'you' LOL.
Fine we can be friends even if you have fangs and fuzzy ears if that makes you happier. I'll remember you fondly when wearing your pelt coat.

[DragonEater70]

@Naerys - Why are me and Hu Tao wrong on Dragon?

I don't think dave and Gamma are s/s. I think Dave is town - looking at his ISO, Dave looks to be genuinely sorting Gamma. I'm not sure why he's rhyming along with Gamma, my guess is it's just for fun, but there's an indication that it might be some sort of bait. I think pointing out that Gamma might be avoiding being tone-read by 2 people in this game at least refers to me as one of the 2 people, maybe the other is dave himself? Regardless, I don't think Gamma is rhyming to avoid being tone-read by me at least. I can only tone-read very specific posts of hers and she can just not post them at all if she's scum, though I suspect that is hard for Gamma to do in some cases.

Do you have like an actual real read on Gamma? Aren't you supposed to be really good at reading her?

Not yet no, I usually skim her early posting unless she's asking me direct questions because I can usually rely on her to at some point post something that pings me if she is scum. If the game goes long enough without me getting pinged I'll go back through her ISO and I should be able to read her from there - the less I interact with her now the less poisoned my read will be later. I've found I'm good at just reading a Gamma ISO without being in the game and guessing correctly on Town or Scum if I have enough to read.

Do you have a read on GE yet?

no and I probably won't until toMorrow unless she says something that pings me

Do you not think that's scum indicative for her? I just exoect to be town pinged by her but I am not.

[JacksonVirgo]

I pefered to sit back and watch situations unfold so I could play reactionary, rather than take active steps to take over the game.

I'd like to think my play is better now than it was 8 or 9 years ago when i was a teenager, but who knows tbh. That's probably the best answer I can give you atm.

Appreciated, there's a few posts of yours that I actively did not like which was seemingly trying to tear down a town-read that was placed for seemingly awkward reasonings in RVS, which happens but then you went in so awkwardly to try and deconstruct it as a main focus it seemed like which I did not like.

I dont know how else to respond to this other than say that the way Hu Tao was questioning me in the early pages of this game was almost exactly the same as they did in the Micro I was talking about, which is why I was pinged early on that Hu Tao could be a wolf.

I concede that it isn't the strongest reason, which is why I didn't push it that far, but it was so early in the game there wasnt much else to go off of.

Sure, you're allowed to make arguments such as that but given the circumstances I feel that's more likely to come from a wolf as an attempt to pull apart what somebody is saying without putting too much effort in formulating a proper argument. Foolproof? Of course not.

Do you not think this could be faked? Is Hu Tao the only person doing this?

I never put them as lock-town, of course it could be faked I just don't believe it is at all. And Hu Tao is the only person I am getting this feeling from yeah, although there's another slightly lesser that I want to sit on my hands for a little bit before saying.

To confirm, just so I know I'm not missing something else I can actively defend against, you think I'm a wolf because Black TRed me too easily?

I will say since it seems like you think I could be faking reads or coming up with easy reads ect.
The reads I have been pushing were getting me heat, but i continued pushing them because i genuinely believe them, and wasnt going to start lying about my reads and what I thought just because of what I was saying was getting me heat.

If I was scum, and faking reads like it seems to be suggested, why would I not try and find a way to change the reads I was pushing to rey and get heat off of me, rather than double down and try and explain my reasoning?

My read on you has nothing to do with Black, those reads are seperate. I do believe you're trying to push the Town in a particular direction using tactics that would theoretically put you less in the spotlight (which the way ur doing it never not gets in the spotlight, I am just seeing from the perspective of yourself PRIOR to saying these things). Regarding the second part you said, I don't recall you getting all that much heat from pushing what you're pushing to be completely honest with you but assuming that you did, could you not also argue that scum!you didn't wanna seem like they bounced off because of their own self-image and thus you stuck with it. I don't wanna comment too much on that until I verify whether or not you did get heat from saying the things I'm referring to

[davesaz]

I have pretty severe strabismus, and on desktop with my right eye focused on text my left eye is staring right at the avatar.

[JacksonVirgo]

Has anybody played with Dragon before?

Yes but (and I mean no offense) they seem a bit like a generic player... it's not that I can't read them, I just have no idea about the meta.

Can you link a town game of yours?

[DragonEater70]

Jesus every time I see my avatar I cringe

its cute. We could've been friends if didn't have fangs and ears this game.

So
A. I initially read this as a scumclaim
B. Even if you scumread me, why can't we be friends? Alignment in a game of mafia has nothing to do with how cool a person is outside of the game. I've definitely (or at least tried to) befriend people as opposite alignment.

I left out the word 'you' LOL.
Fine we can be friends even if you have fangs and fuzzy ears if that makes you happier. I'll remember you fondly when wearing your pelt coat.

I aporeciate this

Remember, in Werewolf, friends are for eating.

[Thomith]

I think Naerys wanting to flip a null read over her scumreads indicates that she doesn't really care who is faded. The argument that a Snivy flip gives us a lot of info doesn't check out either considering he's one of the least active slots in the game

Basically Naerys my confusion is

You are voting Katsuki, saying you are scumreading Gamma/dave, but you want Snivy limmed.

Can you walk me through this

I parked my vote on Katsuki bcz of that ugly picture.
Gamme/dave was a gut feeling i had at a certain point
i wanted Snivy limmed bcz it would give decent info
now i think its better to lim me, only claim scum will get from me is "vanilla" tho

Naerys wtf are you doing

If you are scum you should fight

If you are town you should fight even harder

I have a plan.

Two things come to mind here.
If Naerys is town vengeful hoping to bait scum, I think her reads are more likely to lose us another town. It's hard to tell given my reads aren't all that strong, but just a bad feeling here.
It's also possible she's scum with cCS and with a less valuable role.

I was also thinking she's vengeful, but why ever would you say that out loud???

Yeah it feels like the obvious answer, but idk why you'd say that out loud either.
I will say if its true, I likely get shot and we have 2 town dead at the end of Day 1.

I feel like at least one or both of you are cappin - didn't occur to me in a normal, even if it's complex, to think she's vengeful. And I think dave's post makes it clear why he did point it out - he's worried Naerys's reads are bad to the point that we'd lose 2 town if vengeful!Naerys was limmed. I think if dave is scum he doesn't have to make that post ITT - that can go to the scum PT.

Oh, reading closer Thomith isn't saying he'd thought the same thing, just saying it makes sense. Which is where I was at - not saying anything about it now and just sort of bookmarking dave as +town.

I'll be completely honest with you just for sincerities sake when I kept seeing Naerys say she was willing to get faded today and she had a plan, I did assume vengeful.

[davesaz]

@Naerys - Why are me and Hu Tao wrong on Dragon?

I don't think dave and Gamma are s/s. I think Dave is town - looking at his ISO, Dave looks to be genuinely sorting Gamma. I'm not sure why he's rhyming along with Gamma, my guess is it's just for fun, but there's an indication that it might be some sort of bait. I think pointing out that Gamma might be avoiding being tone-read by 2 people in this game at least refers to me as one of the 2 people, maybe the other is dave himself? Regardless, I don't think Gamma is rhyming to avoid being tone-read by me at least. I can only tone-read very specific posts of hers and she can just not post them at all if she's scum, though I suspect that is hard for Gamma to do in some cases.

Do you have like an actual real read on Gamma? Aren't you supposed to be really good at reading her?

Not yet no, I usually skim her early posting unless she's asking me direct questions because I can usually rely on her to at some point post something that pings me if she is scum. If the game goes long enough without me getting pinged I'll go back through her ISO and I should be able to read her from there - the less I interact with her now the less poisoned my read will be later. I've found I'm good at just reading a Gamma ISO without being in the game and guessing correctly on Town or Scum if I have enough to read.

Do you have a read on GE yet?

no and I probably won't until toMorrow unless she says something that pings me

Do you not think that's scum indicative for her? I just exoect to be town pinged by her but I am not.

I actually like quite a few Gamma posts, once I re-translate the rhyme back into what the regular post would say.

[Naerys]

to dragon:
https://ibb.co/Wpmh4Vm

[JacksonVirgo]

I overlooked this last night because I was a little flattered but this doesn't sound like something a townie would say about someone they think is scum

Why can't I say that? Even if I think you're wolf, it isn't like that throws how I feel about you as a player out of the window, and even with that as of the mafia tournament I've been trying to play in a way that combats my tendency to tunnel/conf-bias myself so I try and address people as if they

are

Town even if I think they aren't, as I feel there are no downsides to doing so as if I am wrong on them, it makes it easier to get to the point where I can correct myself as typically when I tunnel I can get quite aggressive and burn possible bridges in a game which I don't ever really wanna do. It also creates a nicer environment to play in, when people know how I truly feel about them even if I am pushing them.

[Black]

Katsuki feels townie over the last couple of pages and her scumread on me feels more natural than Jackson's

Black's been my most solid scumread today and I would like to think I'm not wrong on that one.
I didn't like a lot of Dragon's posts that he made recently, namely #348, 372, 375 and 428

I don't understand this though. If I've been your most solid scumread then why haven't you pushed me at all? You say you don't think you're wrong but you haven't cased me at all, you've just been voting for existing wagons instead

I believe this read is genuine but I've never been confident that someone is scum and just ignored them or didn't push them at all. I'd like to understand where you're coming from here

1. I rarely case people in the wall poster sense.

2. Too much effort to push a player that only I am scumreading D1. Much easier to flip scumbuddies first and then nom you off their flips instead.

3. I quite like you as a player, and was perfectly happy to sit back and watch you play. After all, I don't have to necessarily get you nom'ed D1, just nom'ed at some point during the game. Obviously carried the risk of me dying overnight early before being able to lay down a foundation for you being scum.
On that note will be quite sad if it turns out that I'm entirely wrong about my reads this game and you were town. I have too many townreads for that to really make sense though, and would involve me being entirely wrong about all my scum/town reads. I don't believe we have something like a kyouko+hutao centered scumteam so.

1. I'm not saying you should wallpost a case. I just think explaining why you think I'm scum might help others see what you're seeing

2. I just don't agree with this. If you are the most confident in scum!me then it shouldn't be a ton of effort to push me, regardless of what the other players think. You haven't even tried. You've barely elaborated on your scumread at all. That approach just doesn't make sense to me

3. Are you typically right about your D1 reads? Because I'm not and I'll be shocked if your D1 read accuracy is high

[JacksonVirgo]

Thinking inwards though I actually believe the only read that I actively did not understand at all was the read about Thom's posting reads as townie. The rest I just disagreed with outside maybe that post saying the game was already out of RVS which I felt was unsubstantiated and I definitely felt the game was very much in that state.

Do you think I'm scum with Thom? Or do you think I'm scum trying to pocket him?

I hadn't thought too deeply about it but I can say I avoid pre-flip associative reads as much as I can

. I don't know what to make of it just yet I just know that I didn't like it

All the power to ya. I

can see Dragon/Black for sure

. Naerys I get too but I wanna make sure I'm not falling into my usual pitfalls with them before I make any stance

:?

I'm not personally holding any weight to those reads in combination, I see all three of those individually as a wolf which I explained in a later post regarding how I don't necessarily see why your actions match a Black/Dragon world, I was saying that to get to understand Katsuki more as I said in a later post as they saw a pairing there, if someone does do association reads it's not like I ignore them, I just don't care about them in the sense of using them for myself. You're not also calling out that the three people I said there were not where my vote was? It's called trying to get on the level with someone to understand their motivations.

[Black]

I overlooked this last night because I was a little flattered but this doesn't sound like something a townie would say about someone they think is scum

Why can't I say that? Even if I think you're wolf, it isn't like that throws how I feel about you as a player out of the window, and even with that as of the mafia tournament I've been trying to play in a way that combats my tendency to tunnel/conf-bias myself so I try and address people as if they

are

Town even if I think they aren't, as I feel there are no downsides to doing so as if I am wrong on them, it makes it easier to get to the point where I can correct myself as typically when I tunnel I can get quite aggressive and burn possible bridges in a game which I don't ever really wanna do. It also creates a nicer environment to play in, when people know how I truly feel about them even if I am pushing them.

I mean you can say it but it doesn't really match your belief that I'm scum. You said you can't wait for me to pop off later which implies you think I'm town

I don't think addressing scumreads as if they are town makes a lot of sense and this just sounds like a poor excuse for a perspective slip

[JacksonVirgo]

It was moreso the manner in which the reads came. Thomith was asked about specific reads and he didn't shy away from the questions. Like Hu straight up asked him if he thinks she's scummy and he was like "yeah you could be scum." I just think scum probably want to avoid butting heads like that early. And I think it would be a lot easier for scum to toe the line instead of taking solid stances like he did when he townread me

I hear you, I did think it was incredibly unlikely to be how I understood it. I think I do disagree that scum would avoid taking solid stances.

Then why did you say it instead of questioning it?

I did ask her directly

[JacksonVirgo]

I overlooked this last night because I was a little flattered but this doesn't sound like something a townie would say about someone they think is scum

Why can't I say that? Even if I think you're wolf, it isn't like that throws how I feel about you as a player out of the window, and even with that as of the mafia tournament I've been trying to play in a way that combats my tendency to tunnel/conf-bias myself so I try and address people as if they

are

Town even if I think they aren't, as I feel there are no downsides to doing so as if I am wrong on them, it makes it easier to get to the point where I can correct myself as typically when I tunnel I can get quite aggressive and burn possible bridges in a game which I don't ever really wanna do. It also creates a nicer environment to play in, when people know how I truly feel about them even if I am pushing them.

I mean you can say it but it doesn't really match your belief that I'm scum. You said you can't wait for me to pop off later which implies you think I'm town

I don't think addressing scumreads as if they are town makes a lot of sense and this just sounds like a poor excuse for a perspective slip

I'm treating you as a player, as by treating you as a wolf first and foremost I land into a variety of issues. Even so, disregarding your alignment if you get better and more clear as time goes on, I want you to do that, I want you to pop off. If I'm wrong, show me. Why is that such a bad mentality? I feel I have skills enough to be able to read you as accurately as I can even beyond this, so it only benefits.

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't want to be the player I used to be

[Gamma Emerald]

Lots of stuff happening while I’m away
I’ll try to sort through it during the evening today

[Black]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

I'm getting gut pings here that this slot is scum. I think they have been super appease-y in their interactions with me/Thom despite us being their top scumreads. I also think they've been kinda defensive too

I think they had a perspective slip regarding me and saying they think I'm a good player and they can't wait for me to pop off later, despite me being their biggest scumread. I'm not buying the excuse that they were trying to address me as town even though they don't think I am

It feels like they are ignoring half of the playerlist which gives me the feeling that they're not trying to solve at all. They just want to push their own little agenda to blend in and seem like they're doing stuff

I'm willing to move elsewhere if this doesn't get support but I think we should wagon this rn

[JacksonVirgo]

Are you not listening to me?

[JacksonVirgo]

It feels like you said things for the sake of making an argument, and didn't want to actually discuss it.

[Thomith]

I guess just your Katsuki read then

The thing that pinged me a bit was that they seemed to hard tunnel on Dave early in the game, and then seemed to begin attempting to switch to faster wagons when they started emerging. The jump off of dave felt a little wonky to me.

Pre-emptively saying things like "I dont like day 1" to almost give an out of how hard you're going to try rubs me the wrong way too, but tbh this is probably NAI, just pinged me at the time.

After reading the ISO again, I probably could bump them up a tier.

[Black]

Regarding my theory. I thought Jackson and Thom could be scum together. I didn't like the way Jackson was attacking my townread on Thom and it felt like they knew Thom was scum and was using that to try to paint me in a bad light

I joined the wagon because I wanted to see how Jackson reacted to the wagon if it gained momentum. I figured they would abandon ship. The vote felt like distancing and I didn't think Jackson would be down to full on bus this early. The wagon didn't really gain any interest though so I wasn't able to gauge their reaction to it

I'm less convinced in this pairing after asking Thom about Jackson and seeing them interact some more, but it's still a possibility. I think Jackson is probably scum independent of Thom's alignment