Mini Normal 2322: Game Over
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Flavor Leaf Survivor
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Dragon has been saying that Purple and Hu Tao are always town here. With me also being town, that left Gamma, Pav, CW, and Geraint. It was looking like I would shoot Geraint, right? (I had said I was starting to lean town on Geraint yesterday, but I digress), but even with those odds, that is a 25% chance of blocking a kill going one of those slots, and I could have eliminated another from play, yet they chose to prevent me from making a kill.
The math of the game not mattering if a kill went through or not made sense to No Kill there too because it didn't open up another reveal.
The scum team with any combination of those 4 players also would never No Kill since Dragon claimed 2-shot JK.CHECK OUT MY HOW TO PLAY AS SCUM GUIDE Maybe it'll help you catch me
”Yeah, the moment I realized Flavor was scum I stopped trying because I’m sure as hell not beating him.” - Clemency
”Not bragging about myself as much as I'm actually praising the Scum player of the year...and probably the decade.” - Almost50
"Just accept that FL is too good as scum, period." - Clidd-
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Flavor Leaf Survivor
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it was just a completely scum motivated move.CHECK OUT MY HOW TO PLAY AS SCUM GUIDE Maybe it'll help you catch me
”Yeah, the moment I realized Flavor was scum I stopped trying because I’m sure as hell not beating him.” - Clemency
”Not bragging about myself as much as I'm actually praising the Scum player of the year...and probably the decade.” - Almost50
"Just accept that FL is too good as scum, period." - Clidd-
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Flavor Leaf Survivor
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if Dragon is scum, and doesn't get faded today, they win this game. I'm locked from shooting, and don't trust them even if they said they would go elsewhere.
They are today's fade.
If somehow somehow they flip town, I will vig in their reads, and then tomorrow you can hit scum.
Scum has absolutely no power shown this game.
I dont ever believe Geraint, Purple, Joyboy, or CW see that crumb by Thomith, so it requires a Hu Tao or Dragon by default to make the kill on Thomith.
On so many levels, they're just scum here.CHECK OUT MY HOW TO PLAY AS SCUM GUIDE Maybe it'll help you catch me
”Yeah, the moment I realized Flavor was scum I stopped trying because I’m sure as hell not beating him.” - Clemency
”Not bragging about myself as much as I'm actually praising the Scum player of the year...and probably the decade.” - Almost50
"Just accept that FL is too good as scum, period." - Clidd-
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Purplemango He/him + any neosGoonHe/him + any neos
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I don't know what I think about it right now
It does sound logical, and works out technically
I don't think he would act like that as scum, so it's a bit weird to me-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Flavor, you do realize that when I flip town you get roleblocked and can't shoot in my scumreads anyway? There's a confirmed roleblocker.
Also
You are just fucking tunneled
Do me a favor, and do the following: take a break from this game for one day. Come back and pretend you have no reads or biases and read the game from the start and tell me what your reads are
If I'm really scum you should be able to find me anyway.-
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Flavor Leaf Survivor
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pretty sure thats what already happened, considering you were saying I was town reading you.In post 2554, DragonEater70 wrote: Flavor, you do realize that when I flip town you get roleblocked and can't shoot in my scumreads anyway? There's a confirmed roleblocker.
Also
You are just fucking tunneled
Do me a favor, and do the following: take a break from this game for one day. Come back and pretend you have no reads or biases and read the game from the start and tell me what your reads are
If I'm really scum you should be able to find me anyway.
I reread the entire game today, and you and HPE are so aligned
What do you mean there's a confirmed roleblocker? When has that ever been shown in this game? You have been the one blocking.
If there was your JK and a scum blocker in this game, they would be blocking me and killing elsewhere IF my reads were poor, which is already shown not to be the case.CHECK OUT MY HOW TO PLAY AS SCUM GUIDE Maybe it'll help you catch me
”Yeah, the moment I realized Flavor was scum I stopped trying because I’m sure as hell not beating him.” - Clemency
”Not bragging about myself as much as I'm actually praising the Scum player of the year...and probably the decade.” - Almost50
"Just accept that FL is too good as scum, period." - Clidd-
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Flavor Leaf Survivor
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Like, I literally just reread the entire game and that's how I got back TO you.CHECK OUT MY HOW TO PLAY AS SCUM GUIDE Maybe it'll help you catch me
”Yeah, the moment I realized Flavor was scum I stopped trying because I’m sure as hell not beating him.” - Clemency
”Not bragging about myself as much as I'm actually praising the Scum player of the year...and probably the decade.” - Almost50
"Just accept that FL is too good as scum, period." - Clidd-
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Pavowski He/himMafia ScumHe/him
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Bolding mine. If there are 3 town prs there's got to be something to balance that on the scum team. Why doesn't scum block Flavor and NK Dragon in that case?In post 2555, Flavor Leaf wrote:
pretty sure thats what already happened, considering you were saying I was town reading you.In post 2554, DragonEater70 wrote: Flavor, you do realize that when I flip town you get roleblocked and can't shoot in my scumreads anyway? There's a confirmed roleblocker.
Also
You are just fucking tunneled
Do me a favor, and do the following: take a break from this game for one day. Come back and pretend you have no reads or biases and read the game from the start and tell me what your reads are
If I'm really scum you should be able to find me anyway.
I reread the entire game today, and you and HPE are so aligned
What do you mean there's a confirmed roleblocker? When has that ever been shown in this game? You have been the one blocking.
If there was your JK and a scum blocker in this game, they would be blocking me and killing elsewhere IF my reads were poor, which is already shown not to be the case.
Flavor's reads and their goodness or badness aside, why shoot at Flavor two nights in a row when there's a jk out there likely to protect the conftown? Yeah Dragon gambited 2-shot but scum know their roles (yeah town has cop, vig, jk in this scenario so I'm assuming roleS plural), so they can make an educated guess about whether 2-shot is in line. They can also consider it might be a gambit and shoot elsewhere. WIFOM all the way down. It's just crazy to me that scum willingly shoots into protection twice in a row when there's another town PR out there.
Scum JK no-killing, no matter how wild a play, is still more likely than THAT, imo.
Where is the scum power in this setup if Dragon is legit?
And don't forget scum sniffed out the cop crumb d1 when it flew past most of us. They ain't just shooting on first impulse.
And, I say again, now that all of this is out there, we have to address the problem of Dragon sooner or later unless scum kills him for us, which given the past two nights, they seem unlikely to do.(I may or may not have been high when I typed this.)-
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Pavowski He/himMafia ScumHe/him
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If town has 3 PRs scum have to have 2, and they've done apparently fuck-all in this game.
If town has 2, scum only have 1.
Which feels more likely given the game state?(I may or may not have been high when I typed this.)-
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cw357 Goon
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I pointed this out earlier but the no kill is attempt to get flavor to change his reads and powerwolf
also idk if scum jailkeeper is a role but that would prevent a flavor kill and avoiding dragon getting vigged seemed to be priority #1
I like absolutely nothing about hu tao's play on the past few pages also-
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geraintm Jack of All Trades
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man, i just don't know what to make of flavour. their level of confidence in the game as they see it is way beyond anything i could ever aspire to.-
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geraintm Jack of All Trades
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i just don't see how people are so strongly reading Pav as town.In post 2541, DragonEater70 wrote:
Gamma I wasn't seeing anything towny from up until this game day, now I'm starting to see it as more towny though. I also remember Kyo's last words that Gamma scumreading her is lockscum.In post 2538, Hu Tao wrote: I don't think he has the votes to Elim you today anyway. Why do you think it's gamma/pav?
For Pav, yes he's very towny on a surface level but again, everything he does is easily fakable as scum IMO, and looking through Pav/HPE combined ISO during the night I noticed there were like 2 posts in Pav's ISO that I thought were somewhat scummy, and these are the exact posts that HPE liked about his slot. It definitely feels off, like HPE just made up a townread because it needed to but couldn't genuinely townread Pav because it knew he was scum. There's other things, like Pav subtly discrediting the Day 1 wagon on HPE and then saying how it's "neat" when I unvoted (feels manipulative).-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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I literally said that I jailed you night 1 and your kill went through, so I was blocked.In post 2555, Flavor Leaf wrote:
pretty sure thats what already happened, considering you were saying I was town reading you.In post 2554, DragonEater70 wrote: Flavor, you do realize that when I flip town you get roleblocked and can't shoot in my scumreads anyway? There's a confirmed roleblocker.
Also
You are just fucking tunneled
Do me a favor, and do the following: take a break from this game for one day. Come back and pretend you have no reads or biases and read the game from the start and tell me what your reads are
If I'm really scum you should be able to find me anyway.
I reread the entire game today, and you and HPE are so aligned
What do you mean there's a confirmed roleblocker? When has that ever been shown in this game? You have been the one blocking.
If there was your JK and a scum blocker in this game, they would be blocking me and killing elsewhere IF my reads were poor, which is already shown not to be the case.
Remember the whole show I made about being a 1-Shot BP? That was to get the roleblocker off me.
Pav is super aligned with HPE mate. How tf am I aligned? Because I unvoted HPE after Pav came in with a hard refutal of my case? That's called being an uninformed townie being manipulated by scum
One second, gonna quote all that.-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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First time of me voting HPE and getting immediately discredited by Pav:
In post 199, DragonEater70 wrote: I won't steal it
However, I'll use this pagebottom to say I'm fine with a Pav/Flavor/Dragon town core for now
And I'm also going to revote HPE
VOTE: HPE
Hu Tao joining me and HPE and unvoting, after which I try to get her back on HPE:In post 201, Pavowski wrote:
u do u booIn post 199, DragonEater70 wrote: I won't steal it
However, I'll use this pagebottom to say I'm fine with a Pav/Flavor/Dragon town core for now
And I'm also going to revote HPE
VOTE: HPE
In post 269, Hu Tao wrote:
Looks like you're just voting them since you're getting heat too.In post 236, HighPrincessErinys wrote:
Okay checks out thank you :salute:In post 233, HighPrincessErinys wrote: Lemme check myself before taking someone this one is wary of at face value
VOTE: Laplacian
VOTE: HPEIn post 270, Hu Tao wrote: Might be because I don't see the reason for the Lap scumread thoughIn post 277, Hu Tao wrote:
Okay. You actually explained the read nvm.In post 240, HighPrincessErinys wrote:
To elaborate this one disagrees on Abne doing nothing but illusory acts of help, but more importantly just doesn't really think there's that "comedic veneer" from Pavowski and that 46 and 51 are secretly totally serious. ESPECIALLY not a fan of the sudden mood change after a reread, compare and contrast how 226 and 228 talk about Pavowski. Still don't like those early posts but certainly willing to write things off. It reeks of "scum failed to get people to kill this guy so they're walking away and saying 'yeah but i think they're cool now'".In post 236, HighPrincessErinys wrote:
Okay checks out thank you :salute:In post 233, HighPrincessErinys wrote: Lemme check myself before taking someone this one is wary of at face value
VOTE: Laplacian
UNVOTE:
Me clearly being frustrated with Flavor not voting HPE or Abnegation (no I do not have magically 100% accurate reads and could not know Abnegation was town):In post 284, DragonEater70 wrote:
No, you are correct that HPE's jump on Lap is bad.In post 270, Hu Tao wrote: Might be because I don't see the reason for the Lap scumread thoughIn post 310, Flavor Leaf wrote:
I could see one of the two of them or Abnegation as scum here.In post 309, DragonEater70 wrote: Anyone scumreading Lap for changing posting style is either mega tunneled or scum
Kyo is clearly mega tunneled and HPE is clearly scum, btw
I don’t necessarily think they have to be, though.Me casing HPE again, getting discredited by Pav AGAIN:
In post 327, DragonEater70 wrote:
44 pinged me, can't say more than thatIn post 323, Flavor Leaf wrote: what's the HPE case? I reread ISO, and I dont necessarily feel it.
53 is weird to me because why does it care that thomith is "jumping the gun" in RVS? You kinda have to force scumreads in RVS if you ever wanna get out of it. I don't feel HPE's reaction is the natural town reaction.
240 presents something that is either NAI or towny (change in the way Lap looks at Pav,after a reread, mind you) as scummy to justify a vote, and it's also over-explainy in my opinion.In post 335, Pavowski wrote:In post 327, DragonEater70 wrote:
44 pinged me, can't say more than thatIn post 323, Flavor Leaf wrote: what's the HPE case? I reread ISO, and I dont necessarily feel it.
53 is weird to me because why does it care that thomith is "jumping the gun" in RVS? You kinda have to force scumreads in RVS if you ever wanna get out of it. I don't feel HPE's reaction is the natural town reaction.
240 presents something that is either NAI or towny (change in the way Lap looks at Pav,after a reread, mind you) as scummy to justify a vote, and it's also over-explainy in my opinion.I'm trying to see the case for HPE but it's just not clicking for me.
44 seems entirely benign -- DE is it that you "can't" say more -- because there's nothing more to say -- or that you "won't -- because you don't want to?
I just disagree on 53 because that sentiment from HPE was also my feeling. I agree we have to get out of RVS sometime, but I did feel like Thom was trying real hard to make something out of what I felt was pretty obviously Not a Thing
Re: 240, I gave thoughts on Lap's change of heart before: how the change of heart looks depends entirely on what you think of Lap going in. Given HPE's professed scumread there, reading Lap in that light makes sense.
All of this could be fakery of course, but That One feels legit enough to me right now.-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Hu Tao she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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Hate to say it, but this does make senseIn post 2550, Flavor Leaf wrote: Dragon has been saying that Purple and Hu Tao are always town here. With me also being town, that left Gamma, Pav, CW, and Geraint. It was looking like I would shoot Geraint, right? (I had said I was starting to lean town on Geraint yesterday, but I digress), but even with those odds, that is a 25% chance of blocking a kill going one of those slots, and I could have eliminated another from play, yet they chose to prevent me from making a kill.
The math of the game not mattering if a kill went through or not made sense to No Kill there too because it didn't open up another reveal.
The scum team with any combination of those 4 players also would never No Kill since Dragon claimed 2-shot JK.-
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Hu Tao she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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I agree this is what I was saying. Let's pretend Dragon is town. What would scum have here? RB? Not sure what else. Role cop? IdkIn post 2558, Pavowski wrote: If town has 3 PRs scum have to have 2, and they've done apparently fuck-all in this game.
If town has 2, scum only have 1.
Which feels more likely given the game state?-
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Hu Tao she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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Because I'm not just sheeping flavor??In post 2559, cw357 wrote: I pointed this out earlier but the no kill is attempt to get flavor to change his reads and powerwolf
also idk if scum jailkeeper is a role but that would prevent a flavor kill and avoiding dragon getting vigged seemed to be priority #1
I like absolutely nothing about hu tao's play on the past few pages also-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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And not to mention how HPE was CONSTANTLY discrediting me Day 1:
In post 145, HighPrincessErinys wrote:Spoiler: catchup where I vote HPE
Damn, another game where Dragon ain't trying his best...In post 146, HighPrincessErinys wrote: "Second post by HPE that pinged me as scummy" Howsabout you tell us thefirstone then?In post 154, HighPrincessErinys wrote:
So you're also jumping the gun and making the implication that you think me and Pavowski are partnered because this one scratched it's head at Thomith's overreaction.In post 151, DragonEater70 wrote: Like I think town would rather ask Thomith about their read instead of trying to stop him?In post 158, HighPrincessErinys wrote:
Then what the hell else were you gonna try to make with that point? Do you think scum justIn post 157, DragonEater70 wrote:
No, I never said you were partnered wtfIn post 154, HighPrincessErinys wrote:
So you're also jumping the gun and making the implication that you think me and Pavowski are partnered because this one scratched it's head at Thomith's overreaction.In post 151, DragonEater70 wrote: Like I think town would rather ask Thomith about their read instead of trying to stop him?
You are the one jumping the gunaskpeople to stop potential wagons on random townies when there isn't even any towncred for doing so? Is that your theorem?In post 230, HighPrincessErinys wrote:
snoreeee mimimimimi. includes self in the towncore too...In post 199, DragonEater70 wrote: I won't steal it
However, I'll use this pagebottom to say I'm fine with a Pav/Flavor/Dragon town core for now
And I'm also going to revote HPE
VOTE: HPE
HPE wouldn't put so much effort into discrediting me if I was its partner, it would just tell me to move off it in the scum PT.In post 361, HighPrincessErinys wrote:In post 351, Thomith wrote:
Why not?In post 336, HighPrincessErinys wrote: Yeah this one doesn't think 47 was a normal or towny way of getting out of RVS like at all.
It progressed the game and helped us start getting some information.
I agree with you I jumped the gun, but I didn't tunnel on the vote once Pavowski started posting more and I started liking his posting.And there ya go.But at the same time the fact you indeed aren't tunneling is why this one isn't so keen on voting you as it is Lap, who took much longer to get the hint and had a very sudden change of heart so people would get off his back.-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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DID YOU FORGET THERE IS A CONFIRMED ROLEBLOCKER FROM MY POV????In post 2550, Flavor Leaf wrote: Dragon has been saying that Purple and Hu Tao are always town here. With me also being town, that left Gamma, Pav, CW, and Geraint. It was looking like I would shoot Geraint, right? (I had said I was starting to lean town on Geraint yesterday, but I digress), but even with those odds, that is a 25% chance of blocking a kill going one of those slots, and I could have eliminated another from play, yet they chose to prevent me from making a kill.
The math of the game not mattering if a kill went through or not made sense to No Kill there too because it didn't open up another reveal.
The scum team with any combination of those 4 players also would never No Kill since Dragon claimed 2-shot JK.
If I didn't block you, you would have died and no kill would have happened.-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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In post 2011, DragonEater70 wrote:
Oh no you found me out!In post 1950, Flavor Leaf wrote: If Dragon is JK, and targeted me, they’re scum gambiting, no killing, by the way. I have a feeling it’s coming, i hope not, but yeah.
That is factually correct, but when I wrote that it was confirmable it was with the knowledge that I managed to outsmart scum and they shot my protection target, so to me it was very obvious that there was some protective. I completely forgot scum could ever NKIn post 1956, Flavor Leaf wrote: JK isn’t confirmable, though, in that regard, so I’m just being paranoid probably.
This is also correct. I intentionally played this way (played dumb) because I wanted to make sure scum has zero doubt in their mind I was a 1-shot BP and doesn't roleblock me so I can pull off my genius maneuver of saving you (which worked btw).In post 1961, Flavor Leaf wrote:In post 1740, DragonEater70 wrote:
YESSSSIn post 1735, Flavor Leaf wrote: I don’t necessarily think it.
I’m probably more likely to shoot DE than Tao, don’t worry.
This was contrived. DE tried to make it out like I was shooting them, but all I said was I was more likely to shoot them than Hu Tao, but I had already said during the day that I wouldn’t be shooting Dragon based on their claim WIFOM, and I also said that I had chosen who I was going to Vig a long time before end of the day.In post 1741, DragonEater70 wrote: K if Flavor is shooting me I'm sheeping him on whoever he wants today
Kyouko wagon helped a lot.
Also, I think you asked somewhere why would I jail you if we hit Kyouko town which is "beneficial" for us? I played the entirety of Day 2 since you claimed around the plan of jailing you if we hit town. You saying I was conftown if Kyouko flipped scum didn't really help my paranoia of who you'd shoot after she flipped town.
And last thing - yes, my clever night play was good and gave us an extra lim, but that doesn't mean I can't be frustrated we didn't use that extra kill on scum!Gamma or scum!HPE, ESPECIALLY because right now you are leaning toward me being scum and I know limming Gamma yesterday and havong Kyo alive today would have meant a totally different gamestate where I don't have to worry about Flavor wanting to lim the JK that protected him last night.
Anyway, I'm a 2-shot JK and I was on Flavor both nights, I guess I was roleblocked on Night 1 which is part of why I had to do all that 1-shot BP posturing(and also why I did suspect for a slight second you were scum trying to lure out a CC from the vig, since you should have been blocked).-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Like Flavor, I can see you really think my PoE is wrong and you feel you're onto something with calling me out, but your reasoning is so flawed it's painful. I didn't deny you a kill when I KNEW there is a blocker.-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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This is such an OBVIOUS scum post. Pav scumread me when it was convenient for him, then townread me when it was convenient, and now that Flavor is coming up with crackpot theories on why I'm scum he starts beating the drum for that theory. It's CLEAR there is no thought process behind this post, it's an obvious attempt to justify voting the town JK who also happens to be main person scumreading him.In post 2557, Pavowski wrote:
Bolding mine. If there are 3 town prs there's got to be something to balance that on the scum team. Why doesn't scum block Flavor and NK Dragon in that case?In post 2555, Flavor Leaf wrote:
pretty sure thats what already happened, considering you were saying I was town reading you.In post 2554, DragonEater70 wrote: Flavor, you do realize that when I flip town you get roleblocked and can't shoot in my scumreads anyway? There's a confirmed roleblocker.
Also
You are just fucking tunneled
Do me a favor, and do the following: take a break from this game for one day. Come back and pretend you have no reads or biases and read the game from the start and tell me what your reads are
If I'm really scum you should be able to find me anyway.
I reread the entire game today, and you and HPE are so aligned
What do you mean there's a confirmed roleblocker? When has that ever been shown in this game? You have been the one blocking.
If there was your JK and a scum blocker in this game, they would be blocking me and killing elsewhere IF my reads were poor, which is already shown not to be the case.
Flavor's reads and their goodness or badness aside, why shoot at Flavor two nights in a row when there's a jk out there likely to protect the conftown? Yeah Dragon gambited 2-shot but scum know their roles (yeah town has cop, vig, jk in this scenario so I'm assuming roleS plural), so they can make an educated guess about whether 2-shot is in line. They can also consider it might be a gambit and shoot elsewhere. WIFOM all the way down. It's just crazy to me that scum willingly shoots into protection twice in a row when there's another town PR out there.
Scum JK no-killing, no matter how wild a play, is still more likely than THAT, imo.
Where is the scum power in this setup if Dragon is legit?
And don't forget scum sniffed out the cop crumb d1 when it flew past most of us. They ain't just shooting on first impulse.
And, I say again, now that all of this is out there, we have to address the problem of Dragon sooner or later unless scum kills him for us, which given the past two nights, they seem unlikely to do.-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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But the easier route is just flip scum!Pav, confirming me as town due to associations (of course Flavor will still flip flop but he's much less likely to actually try to wagon me after I yeeted two scum).
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