Mini Normal 2322: Game Over

[Flavor Leaf]

Dragon has been saying that Purple and Hu Tao are always town here. With me also being town, that left Gamma, Pav, CW, and Geraint. It was looking like I would shoot Geraint, right? (I had said I was starting to lean town on Geraint yesterday, but I digress), but even with those odds, that is a 25% chance of blocking a kill going one of those slots, and I could have eliminated another from play, yet they chose to prevent me from making a kill.

The math of the game not mattering if a kill went through or not made sense to No Kill there too because it didn't open up another reveal.

The scum team with any combination of those 4 players also would never No Kill since Dragon claimed 2-shot JK.

[Flavor Leaf]

it was just a completely scum motivated move.

[Flavor Leaf]

if Dragon is scum, and doesn't get faded today, they win this game. I'm locked from shooting, and don't trust them even if they said they would go elsewhere.

They are today's fade.

If somehow somehow they flip town, I will vig in their reads, and then tomorrow you can hit scum.

Scum has absolutely no power shown this game.

I dont ever believe Geraint, Purple, Joyboy, or CW see that crumb by Thomith, so it requires a Hu Tao or Dragon by default to make the kill on Thomith.

On so many levels, they're just scum here.

[Purplemango]

I don't know what I think about it right now
It does sound logical, and works out technically
I don't think he would act like that as scum, so it's a bit weird to me

[DragonEater70]

Flavor, you do realize that when I flip town you get roleblocked and can't shoot in my scumreads anyway? There's a confirmed roleblocker.

Also

You are just fucking tunneled

Do me a favor, and do the following: take a break from this game for one day. Come back and pretend you have no reads or biases and read the game from the start and tell me what your reads are

If I'm really scum you should be able to find me anyway.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor, you do realize that when I flip town you get roleblocked and can't shoot in my scumreads anyway? There's a confirmed roleblocker.

Also

You are just fucking tunneled

Do me a favor, and do the following: take a break from this game for one day. Come back and pretend you have no reads or biases and read the game from the start and tell me what your reads are

If I'm really scum you should be able to find me anyway.

pretty sure thats what already happened, considering you were saying I was town reading you.

I reread the entire game today, and you and HPE are so aligned

What do you mean there's a confirmed roleblocker? When has that ever been shown in this game? You have been the one blocking.

If there was your JK and a scum blocker in this game, they would be blocking me and killing elsewhere IF my reads were poor, which is already shown not to be the case.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, I literally just reread the entire game and that's how I got back TO you.

[Pavowski]

Flavor, you do realize that when I flip town you get roleblocked and can't shoot in my scumreads anyway? There's a confirmed roleblocker.

Also

You are just fucking tunneled

Do me a favor, and do the following: take a break from this game for one day. Come back and pretend you have no reads or biases and read the game from the start and tell me what your reads are

If I'm really scum you should be able to find me anyway.

pretty sure thats what already happened, considering you were saying I was town reading you.

I reread the entire game today, and you and HPE are so aligned

What do you mean there's a confirmed roleblocker? When has that ever been shown in this game? You have been the one blocking.

If there was your JK and a scum blocker in this game, they would be blocking me and killing elsewhere IF my reads were poor, which is already shown not to be the case.

Bolding mine. If there are 3 town prs there's got to be something to balance that on the scum team. Why doesn't scum block Flavor and NK Dragon in that case?

Flavor's reads and their goodness or badness aside, why shoot at Flavor two nights in a row when there's a jk out there likely to protect the conftown? Yeah Dragon gambited 2-shot but scum know their roles (yeah town has cop, vig, jk in this scenario so I'm assuming roleS plural), so they can make an educated guess about whether 2-shot is in line. They can also consider it might be a gambit and shoot elsewhere. WIFOM all the way down. It's just crazy to me that scum willingly shoots into protection twice in a row when there's another town PR out there.

Scum JK no-killing, no matter how wild a play, is still more likely than THAT, imo.

Where is the scum power in this setup if Dragon is legit?

And don't forget scum sniffed out the cop crumb d1 when it flew past most of us. They ain't just shooting on first impulse.

And, I say again, now that all of this is out there, we have to address the problem of Dragon sooner or later unless scum kills him for us, which given the past two nights, they seem unlikely to do.

[Pavowski]

If town has 3 PRs scum have to have 2, and they've done apparently fuck-all in this game.

If town has 2, scum only have 1.

Which feels more likely given the game state?

[cw357]

I pointed this out earlier but the no kill is attempt to get flavor to change his reads and powerwolf
also idk if scum jailkeeper is a role but that would prevent a flavor kill and avoiding dragon getting vigged seemed to be priority #1

I like absolutely nothing about hu tao's play on the past few pages also

[geraintm]

man, i just don't know what to make of flavour. their level of confidence in the game as they see it is way beyond anything i could ever aspire to.

[geraintm]

I don't think he has the votes to Elim you today anyway. Why do you think it's gamma/pav?

Gamma I wasn't seeing anything towny from up until this game day, now I'm starting to see it as more towny though. I also remember Kyo's last words that Gamma scumreading her is lockscum.

For Pav, yes he's very towny on a surface level but again, everything he does is easily fakable as scum IMO, and looking through Pav/HPE combined ISO during the night I noticed there were like 2 posts in Pav's ISO that I thought were somewhat scummy, and these are the exact posts that HPE liked about his slot. It definitely feels off, like HPE just made up a townread because it needed to but couldn't genuinely townread Pav because it knew he was scum. There's other things, like Pav subtly discrediting the Day 1 wagon on HPE and then saying how it's "neat" when I unvoted (feels manipulative).

i just don't see how people are so strongly reading Pav as town.

[DragonEater70]

Flavor, you do realize that when I flip town you get roleblocked and can't shoot in my scumreads anyway? There's a confirmed roleblocker.

Also

You are just fucking tunneled

Do me a favor, and do the following: take a break from this game for one day. Come back and pretend you have no reads or biases and read the game from the start and tell me what your reads are

If I'm really scum you should be able to find me anyway.

pretty sure thats what already happened, considering you were saying I was town reading you.

I reread the entire game today, and you and HPE are so aligned

What do you mean there's a confirmed roleblocker? When has that ever been shown in this game? You have been the one blocking.

If there was your JK and a scum blocker in this game, they would be blocking me and killing elsewhere IF my reads were poor, which is already shown not to be the case.

I literally said that I jailed you night 1 and your kill went through, so I was blocked.

Remember the whole show I made about being a 1-Shot BP? That was to get the roleblocker off me.

Pav is super aligned with HPE mate. How tf am I aligned? Because I unvoted HPE after Pav came in with a hard refutal of my case? That's called being an uninformed townie being manipulated by scum

One second, gonna quote all that.

[DragonEater70]

First time of me voting HPE and getting immediately discredited by Pav:

I won't steal it

However, I'll use this pagebottom to say I'm fine with a Pav/Flavor/Dragon town core for now

And I'm also going to revote HPE

VOTE: HPE

I won't steal it

However, I'll use this pagebottom to say I'm fine with a Pav/Flavor/Dragon town core for now

And I'm also going to revote HPE

VOTE: HPE

u do u boo

Hu Tao joining me and HPE and unvoting, after which I try to get her back on HPE:

Lemme check myself before taking someone this one is wary of at face value

Okay checks out thank you :salute:
VOTE: Laplacian

Looks like you're just voting them since you're getting heat too.

VOTE: HPE

Might be because I don't see the reason for the Lap scumread though

Lemme check myself before taking someone this one is wary of at face value

Okay checks out thank you :salute:
VOTE: Laplacian

To elaborate this one disagrees on Abne doing nothing but illusory acts of help, but more importantly just doesn't really think there's that "comedic veneer" from Pavowski and that 46 and 51 are secretly totally serious. ESPECIALLY not a fan of the sudden mood change after a reread, compare and contrast how 226 and 228 talk about Pavowski. Still don't like those early posts but certainly willing to write things off. It reeks of "scum failed to get people to kill this guy so they're walking away and saying 'yeah but i think they're cool now'".

Okay. You actually explained the read nvm.

UNVOTE:

Might be because I don't see the reason for the Lap scumread though

No, you are correct that HPE's jump on Lap is bad.

Me clearly being frustrated with Flavor not voting HPE or Abnegation (no I do not have magically 100% accurate reads and could not know Abnegation was town):

Anyone scumreading Lap for changing posting style is either mega tunneled or scum

Kyo is clearly mega tunneled and HPE is clearly scum, btw

I could see one of the two of them or Abnegation as scum here.

I don’t necessarily think they have to be, though.

*sigh*

Just vote one and I'll sheep you

Me casing HPE again, getting discredited by Pav AGAIN:

what's the HPE case? I reread ISO, and I dont necessarily feel it.

44 pinged me, can't say more than that

53 is weird to me because why does it care that thomith is "jumping the gun" in RVS? You kinda have to force scumreads in RVS if you ever wanna get out of it. I don't feel HPE's reaction is the natural town reaction.

240 presents something that is either NAI or towny (change in the way Lap looks at Pav,

after a reread, mind you

) as scummy to justify a vote, and it's also over-explainy in my opinion.

what's the HPE case? I reread ISO, and I dont necessarily feel it.

44 pinged me, can't say more than that

53 is weird to me because why does it care that thomith is "jumping the gun" in RVS? You kinda have to force scumreads in RVS if you ever wanna get out of it. I don't feel HPE's reaction is the natural town reaction.

240 presents something that is either NAI or towny (change in the way Lap looks at Pav,

after a reread, mind you

) as scummy to justify a vote, and it's also over-explainy in my opinion.

All roads always lead back to this VOTE: HPE

I'm trying to see the case for HPE but it's just not clicking for me.

44 seems entirely benign -- DE is it that you "can't" say more -- because there's nothing more to say -- or that you "won't -- because you don't want to?

I just disagree on 53 because that sentiment from HPE was also my feeling. I agree we have to get out of RVS sometime, but I did feel like Thom was trying real hard to make something out of what I felt was pretty obviously Not a Thing

Re: 240, I gave thoughts on Lap's change of heart before: how the change of heart looks depends entirely on what you think of Lap going in. Given HPE's professed scumread there, reading Lap in that light makes sense.

All of this could be fakery of course, but That One feels legit enough to me right now.

[DragonEater70]

How is that Pav not being aligned and mw bwing aligned?

[Hu Tao]

Dragon has been saying that Purple and Hu Tao are always town here. With me also being town, that left Gamma, Pav, CW, and Geraint. It was looking like I would shoot Geraint, right? (I had said I was starting to lean town on Geraint yesterday, but I digress), but even with those odds, that is a 25% chance of blocking a kill going one of those slots, and I could have eliminated another from play, yet they chose to prevent me from making a kill.

The math of the game not mattering if a kill went through or not made sense to No Kill there too because it didn't open up another reveal.

The scum team with any combination of those 4 players also would never No Kill since Dragon claimed 2-shot JK.

Hate to say it, but this does make sense

[Hu Tao]

If town has 3 PRs scum have to have 2, and they've done apparently fuck-all in this game.

If town has 2, scum only have 1.

Which feels more likely given the game state?

I agree this is what I was saying. Let's pretend Dragon is town. What would scum have here? RB? Not sure what else. Role cop? Idk

[Hu Tao]

I pointed this out earlier but the no kill is attempt to get flavor to change his reads and powerwolf
also idk if scum jailkeeper is a role but that would prevent a flavor kill and avoiding dragon getting vigged seemed to be priority #1

I like absolutely nothing about hu tao's play on the past few pages also

Because I'm not just sheeping flavor??

[DragonEater70]

And not to mention how HPE was CONSTANTLY discrediting me Day 1:

Spoiler: catchup where I vote HPE

A. WTF did I just read

B. Some nice alignment indicative commentary:

*pokes thread with a stick*

What, do you people have jobs or something?

Somebody vote Kyouko for that smell thing, that was weird, wasn't it?

That way I can defend her and be all "nah that's totally normal, actually"

I'm finding myself not liking this post. Its giving me a weird gut ping that it feels fake but I dont know how to explain it fully.

You mentioned earlier that we were early on in the day, but here you are acting like there is a sense of urgency that feels like a subtle contradiction.

Why are you trying to get other people to vote Kyouko for something that you find weird? Why not lead the charge yourself if you want to get the game moving?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Pavowski

Thomith don't you think maybe you're jumping the gun a bit? Pavowski's post seems a little, teensy tiny bit, blatantly, shitposty.

Second post by HPE that pinged me as scummy

Spicy take, CW, lapalacian, HPE, and Pavowski are all town.

Why's HPE town?

Agree about the others probably

going to read everything this one missed in a sec here but saw a bunch of votes moving around Pavowski so time to UNVOTE: Pavowski before something stupid happens

Another scum post

Damn, another game where Dragon ain't trying his best...

"Second post by HPE that pinged me as scummy" Howsabout you tell us the

first

one then?

Like I think town would rather ask Thomith about their read instead of trying to stop him?

So you're also jumping the gun and making the implication that you think me and Pavowski are partnered because this one scratched it's head at Thomith's overreaction.

Like I think town would rather ask Thomith about their read instead of trying to stop him?

So you're also jumping the gun and making the implication that you think me and Pavowski are partnered because this one scratched it's head at Thomith's overreaction.

No, I never said you were partnered wtf

You are the one jumping the gun

Then what the hell else were you gonna try to make with that point? Do you think scum just

ask

people to stop potential wagons on random townies when there isn't even any towncred for doing so? Is that your theorem?

I won't steal it

However, I'll use this pagebottom to say I'm fine with a Pav/Flavor/Dragon town core for now

And I'm also going to revote HPE

VOTE: HPE

snoreeee mimimimimi. includes self in the towncore too...

Yeah this one doesn't think 47 was a normal or towny way of getting out of RVS like at all.

Why not?
It progressed the game and helped us start getting some information.

I agree with you I jumped the gun

, but I didn't tunnel on the vote once Pavowski started posting more and I started liking his posting.

And there ya go.

But at the same time the fact you indeed aren't tunneling is why this one isn't so keen on voting you as it is Lap, who took much longer to get the hint and had a very sudden change of heart so people would get off his back.

HPE wouldn't put so much effort into discrediting me if I was its partner, it would just tell me to move off it in the scum PT.

[DragonEater70]

Dragon has been saying that Purple and Hu Tao are always town here. With me also being town, that left Gamma, Pav, CW, and Geraint. It was looking like I would shoot Geraint, right? (I had said I was starting to lean town on Geraint yesterday, but I digress), but even with those odds, that is a 25% chance of blocking a kill going one of those slots, and I could have eliminated another from play, yet they chose to prevent me from making a kill.

The math of the game not mattering if a kill went through or not made sense to No Kill there too because it didn't open up another reveal.

The scum team with any combination of those 4 players also would never No Kill since Dragon claimed 2-shot JK.

DID YOU FORGET THERE IS A CONFIRMED ROLEBLOCKER FROM MY POV????

If I didn't block you, you would have died and no kill would have happened.

[DragonEater70]

If Dragon is JK, and targeted me, they’re scum gambiting, no killing, by the way. I have a feeling it’s coming, i hope not, but yeah.

Oh no you found me out!

JK isn’t confirmable, though, in that regard, so I’m just being paranoid probably.

That is factually correct, but when I wrote that it was confirmable it was with the knowledge that I managed to outsmart scum and they shot my protection target, so to me it was very obvious that there was some protective. I completely forgot scum could ever NK

I don’t necessarily think it.

I’m probably more likely to shoot DE than Tao, don’t worry.

YESSSS

K if Flavor is shooting me I'm sheeping him on whoever he wants today

This was contrived. DE tried to make it out like I was shooting them, but all I said was I was more likely to shoot them than Hu Tao, but I had already said during the day that I wouldn’t be shooting Dragon based on their claim WIFOM, and I also said that I had chosen who I was going to Vig a long time before end of the day.

Kyouko wagon helped a lot.

This is also correct. I intentionally played this way (played dumb) because I wanted to make sure scum has zero doubt in their mind I was a 1-shot BP and doesn't roleblock me so I can pull off my genius maneuver of saving you (which worked btw).

Also, I think you asked somewhere why would I jail you if we hit Kyouko town which is "beneficial" for us? I played the entirety of Day 2 since you claimed around the plan of jailing you if we hit town. You saying I was conftown if Kyouko flipped scum didn't really help my paranoia of who you'd shoot after she flipped town.

And last thing - yes, my clever night play was good and gave us an extra lim, but that doesn't mean I can't be frustrated we didn't use that extra kill on scum!Gamma or scum!HPE, ESPECIALLY because right now you are leaning toward me being scum and I know limming Gamma yesterday and havong Kyo alive today would have meant a totally different gamestate where I don't have to worry about Flavor wanting to lim the JK that protected him last night.

Anyway, I'm a 2-shot JK and I was on Flavor both nights, I guess I was roleblocked on Night 1 which is part of why I had to do all that 1-shot BP posturing

(and also why I did suspect for a slight second you were scum trying to lure out a CC from the vig, since you should have been blocked).

[DragonEater70]

Like Flavor, I can see you really think my PoE is wrong and you feel you're onto something with calling me out, but your reasoning is so flawed it's painful. I didn't deny you a kill when I KNEW there is a blocker.

[DragonEater70]

Flavor, you do realize that when I flip town you get roleblocked and can't shoot in my scumreads anyway? There's a confirmed roleblocker.

Also

You are just fucking tunneled

Do me a favor, and do the following: take a break from this game for one day. Come back and pretend you have no reads or biases and read the game from the start and tell me what your reads are

If I'm really scum you should be able to find me anyway.

pretty sure thats what already happened, considering you were saying I was town reading you.

I reread the entire game today, and you and HPE are so aligned

What do you mean there's a confirmed roleblocker? When has that ever been shown in this game? You have been the one blocking.

If there was your JK and a scum blocker in this game, they would be blocking me and killing elsewhere IF my reads were poor, which is already shown not to be the case.

Bolding mine. If there are 3 town prs there's got to be something to balance that on the scum team. Why doesn't scum block Flavor and NK Dragon in that case?

Flavor's reads and their goodness or badness aside, why shoot at Flavor two nights in a row when there's a jk out there likely to protect the conftown? Yeah Dragon gambited 2-shot but scum know their roles (yeah town has cop, vig, jk in this scenario so I'm assuming roleS plural), so they can make an educated guess about whether 2-shot is in line. They can also consider it might be a gambit and shoot elsewhere. WIFOM all the way down. It's just crazy to me that scum willingly shoots into protection twice in a row when there's another town PR out there.

Scum JK no-killing, no matter how wild a play, is still more likely than THAT, imo.

Where is the scum power in this setup if Dragon is legit?

And don't forget scum sniffed out the cop crumb d1 when it flew past most of us. They ain't just shooting on first impulse.

And, I say again, now that all of this is out there, we have to address the problem of Dragon sooner or later unless scum kills him for us, which given the past two nights, they seem unlikely to do.

This is such an OBVIOUS scum post. Pav scumread me when it was convenient for him, then townread me when it was convenient, and now that Flavor is coming up with crackpot theories on why I'm scum he starts beating the drum for that theory. It's CLEAR there is no thought process behind this post, it's an obvious attempt to justify voting the town JK who also happens to be main person scumreading him.

[DragonEater70]

If I am eliminated today please tuebolim Pav tomorrow.

[DragonEater70]

But the easier route is just flip scum!Pav, confirming me as town due to associations (of course Flavor will still flip flop but he's much less likely to actually try to wagon me after I yeeted two scum).