Open 901 - Normal Idea Mafia Redux - Postgame

[lucca261]

VOTE: Cakez

Think I recognize your name from 7, 8 years ago

[lucca261]

huge fan not_mafia

are you truly the jester

[lucca261]

wut a ban out of nowhere

[lucca261]

i did note on previous games that clap was in fact extremely annoying though

[lucca261]

Luchador64, can you tell me a little more about your admiration and respect for the villain in the ring, Miltank "The Hammer" Not_Mafia?

i came back after like seven years without playing and one of the things I did remember was the shitposter with the miltank avatar who used to get flamed by the robotic serious players

[lucca261]

why so many questions so early Jackson

[lucca261]

why so many questions so early Jackson

You need to answer why you asked this next time you pop into this thread

Gut read kinda telas me you were trying to get the "town trying to get us out of RVS" townpoints

but at the same time i'm afraid its just a residual vibes read of the other time we played together, i thought you were scum and you were town

[lucca261]

EBWOP *tells on the other post but it was kinda obvious

@106 - yep, that one. you replaced cook. not sure if my gut was real or its Just my mind going "remember that other game we both played. you thought he was scum, he was town. so therefore he IS scum now"

[lucca261]

"remember that other game we both played. you thought he was scum, he was town. so therefore he IS scum now"

Wait so how are you reading me? I was under the assumption you had a weak gutping that I was scummy from what I was doing, but comparing this way makes no sense if the read was the same?

Exactly. It was mostly a gut/vibes read that you were doing something scummy, so I asked because why not, let's engage with the guy.
the other game issue is just something I'm hammering in my mind to avoid doing. I was annoyed with myself for misreading you last game, so I'm taking care to not fall for the same trap. got it?

[lucca261]

Some catch-up thoughts

Spoiler:

Feel good about HT and Black so far.

Null on JV. @204 is kinda concerning for me. It's a non-commitable accusation and the 'Am I looking too deeply?" is a sudden change in tone from a player that seems incredibly confident. I like the Macho Man vote though.

First thing that pinged me on my read-through is Shaddow coming back to rephrase a previous post after 20 minutes. @137 then @138. Kinda gives me the feel he's concerned about other people's reactions to his posts.

Reading the thread I had the same opinion as post @179 so that's enough to put HT at my townpile so far
Also liked Black for @194 because of the longest post bit

Disliked STD entrance. More of a vibe read than anything substancial, but it seems he's trying to look 'detached cool townie' if that makes sense.

And that's it. Something about the tone on @243 by Argonauts is also strange.

hello jake, let's talk

VOTE: Shaddowez
tell me: would scum do that?

[lucca261]

hey argonauts so just confirm to me:
so @Drew is @Asclepius

and looking at a few games it seems that @Orpheus is @RH9 and @Atalanta is @Aureal? at least the writing feels more similar this way

correct?

[lucca261]

didn't you townread me Mr. Savage

[lucca261]

oh okay

so why do you think i'm scum

[lucca261]

the hello jake was a p-edit mostly

[lucca261]

About Black, I think her getting to that conclusion is a towny-progression. Something like:

1) hmm, Hu Tao posts feels bigger than normal
2) let me check her ISO on previous games
3) oh, it is the biggest post since "x game"
4) I wonder what does that mean?

if Black was scum, I think she would've used that information in a more definite way. It's a good argument, scum would use that to get somewhere, at least in my view.

---

liked the vote on Macho Man because he looks like a very analytical player and I can see how town!JV would get a little annoyed and paranoid by the fast confident read + the fluff as it seems like easy content.

I can see someone who is assumedly bored and is probably re-reading the game to get more conclusions going back, looking at Macho's read and going: "wow, this is bullshit for how early it is". So I think the vote makes sense. At least I can see how he would come to this conclusion if he was town. If he was scum, I don't see the benefit

[lucca261]

Here. Sorry for the inactivity. Life stuff got in the way. Back, reading and catching up.

[lucca261]

Feel good about HT and Black so far.

Did you get a chance to read my question to you?

Actually had this written on my notepad and somehow didn't answer. Sorry.
Black, @150. Do not see any similarities so far. But at that game he replaced a pressured slot on D2. It was a very different situation than a mostly RVS game to the point. Maybe a little more inquisitive, but meh.

nowadays-edit: I was waiting for the hydra to answer me to clarify if Doctor Drew was truly @Asclepius before going through a full re-read on that game given the similar playerlist

[lucca261]

About Black, I think her getting to that conclusion is a towny-progression. Something like:

1) hmm, Hu Tao posts feels bigger than normal
2) let me check her ISO on previous games
3) oh, it is the biggest post since "x game"
4) I wonder what does that mean?

if Black was scum, I think she would've used that information in a more definite way. It's a good argument, scum would use that to get somewhere, at least in my view.
[...]

I guess I follow. It reads more like a neat observation to me, but I can see your perspective.

[...]

liked the vote on Macho Man because he looks like a very analytical player and I can see how town!JV would get a little annoyed and paranoid by the fast confident read + the fluff as it seems like easy content.

I can see someone who is assumedly bored and is probably re-reading the game to get more conclusions going back, looking at Macho's read and going: "wow, this is bullshit for how early it is". So I think the vote makes sense. At least I can see how he would come to this conclusion if he was town. If he was scum, I don't see the benefit

Huh. This is a little strange interpretation. I thought that post was rather straightforwardly an attack on Mucho for her thoughts on Jackson and how they didn't line up with what they were seeing.

In this framing, Jackson's post could come from other alignment, but from what you're telling me about their play they would be more likely to be town. Frustrated town at that.

I read Jackson's play on start of D1 as frustrated town who really wants to play, but no one is around. I think he even mentioned being bored a couple of times. So I can easily see the vote as a frustrated town one.

[lucca261]

The rest of this is on a traditional

Spoiler catch-up time

!

Spoiler:

@319. ehhhhhhhhhhh this is not a good reaction to the wagon

@324. I do not know how much clearer I can be about the situation, JV. It was absolutely the first thing that caught my attention on the game. The very first thing that pinged me. I had just ended a game in which I scumread you, then kinda thought you were town because of VCA, they scumread you because of the end of D2, in which you delayed the obvious lim until we were

five minutes

before deadline. Then I went to the night mad about the clusterfuck on the end of D2 and got killed by the mafia.

you were town

It was just a passing comment that I was afraid that my first gut-read of you this game was being affected by my scumread of you on the last game, because I still was a little annoyed by what transpired.
Clear?

but I think the rest of your reaction to my posts are town so you're back to town JV

@348. @Roden. Why are all your posts on the thread weirdly indirecting accusing someone or throwing NAI questions?

@354. Isn't the same true for you, HT? You kinda admitted it.

[lucca261]

Halfway through, end of page 8.

why so many questions so early Jackson

You need to answer why you asked this next time you pop into this thread

Gut read kinda telas me you were trying to get the "town trying to get us out of RVS" townpoints

but at the same time i'm afraid its just a residual vibes read of the other time we played together, i thought you were scum and you were town

Wasn't it Clap that started that interaction? Why do you think JV was the one trying to get out of RVS?

So far I haven't gotten an answer to either of these, so if they're between here and now this post can be ignored:

It was clear that JV was trying to get us out of RVS. He is doing it even now, on page 14-15, because nothing is happening. I never even commented on Clap vs. JV because I kinda thought it was a boring discussion and Clap was being abrasive. The questions that pinged me were @84, @85 and @87, all in sequence.

I don't like your reaction, Shaddow. It seems you're trying to find stuff to incriminate me because I voted for you.

[lucca261]

Nor do I agree that thinking it could be best to take out the SK first is a scumtell. Especially when you're just coming out and saying it like that.

How is it not? Is this a cultural difference? The only people who should care about taking out/focusing the SK are the mafia. Town should just be focusing on who is wolfy

But why would mafia say it openly that he's trying to take out the SK

[lucca261]

I remember I was waiting for a hammer to go to the gym, you kept not voting, I was getting upset and ended up not even going because I decided to re-read the whole of D2 immediately after the flip

then i got yeeted like a dumbass and the re-read was for nothing

[lucca261]

more later maybe

For your awareness:

You are going to be my main push tommorrow should more not happen between now and then.

Why std?

-Asclepius

Generally, I'm pushing people who have low game activity and already have some momentum their way. Specifically, Dragon's posts have both lacked relevancy and lacked luster.

[...]

Why not push him now? What did you think of shaddow's catch-up?

While I would love to push him now, I don't think there's enough momentum that way. Though, I suppose I'll need to be the change I wish tosee in the thread.

Shadez catch-up was alright(?) but it didn't really inspire confidence in me that they were town. I can do a deeper breakdown if prompted.


Speaking of being prompted...
VOTE: Save The Dragons

With all that you said on your page 16, shouldn't you be voting me or Black?

I don't think you can get STD off today and I don't like that you voted for him after being prompted by someone

where's the super confident town player Jake

[lucca261]

So @Shaddow why are you scumreading Macho Man?

[lucca261]

I PM'd to sub in to this game, still waiting on confirmation. First time here but I'm somewhat experienced in mafia

You shouldn't post on the thread but welcome to the site anyway. Hope you have a good first game (here or on another game)

[lucca261]

Was liking Jacob 100% for town before he used the word ISO

it tells me he's totally capable of acting dumb around the setup to feel newtown because he has probably lurked heavily around the site tbh

[lucca261]

I don't see the Argo stuff also and feel like it's a confortable wagon for scum to be in D1

people are always down to vote the cryptic fluff-y hydra and with a slow D1 as today is I expect to scum to be using this wagon to skate pressure

UNVOTE:

[lucca261]

@348. @Roden. Why are all your posts on the thread weirdly indirecting accusing someone or throwing NAI questions?

That's somehow both a diminutive and exaggerated accusation there

Actually, you're right. I had misread @270. That was the basis for my argument because I'd read it the opposite way

sorry mate

[lucca261]

@440

@Shaddow. Can see where you're coming from now. Actually agree on the Mucho read.
My read on the slot is that Macho was trying to use the Randy Savage character to post unsubstancial reads and out-of-the-blue game advancing content while using the gimmick to justify the lack of reasoning.

@58, 130 and 269 in particular.
she's so crazy love her 80's/90's wrestler style

------------------

also concerned that 90% of Invisibility content is talking about Not_Mafia when NM has been doing nothing since like page 7
the "My worldview is based around Not_Mafia" on @459 is weird for me based around on how detached Invi is from the game

like it kinda tells me he was worried about how people would read his catch-up? (not necessarily something only scum would be worried about, but given how detached he feels...)

------------------

@544
isn't this post kinda weird

I don't see how you can come to this conclusion about the a new player asking to be caught up at all specially on a game so devoid of activity

[lucca261]

Not saying he's scum for that, just that I'd read his entrance and assumed he was town from the indifference/lack of thought about the setup, unlikely if he replaces in and learns he's newscum.

But seeing that he's confortable using game terms and learning that he's not a total newbie in regards to forum mafia shows he can pull the "ehh, not too sure about the setup" gambit with ease, so townpoints retracted.

[lucca261]

VOTE: Skygazer

[lucca261]

Someone give me a solid reason to vote invis. Shadow seems like a better option for mafia to me right now.

Invis wouldn’t be missed much by town with the inactivity however, so if needed I will likely vote that way.

Why is shaddow a better option

Aggressive defense, really pushing back against what seemed like reasonable suspicion on absence. Calling some out with only a bit of evidence.

Still waiting to hear good evidence against invis

What was the reasonable suspicion on Shaddow btw

[lucca261]

i'm here today and will be for the end of D1

[lucca261]

I can vote Invi if needed, but I would say that Skygazer hasn't done shit as well

the thing that gives me pause about Invi is the [Shaddow, Jake, STD, Skygazer] in it because those are all the slots I don't like at this point and like 60% of the Argonauts wagon which I felt had scum in it

[lucca261]

new post edit: whoops

[lucca261]

now 80% of the Argonauts wagon

[lucca261]

guess I really was here at the end of D1!

[lucca261]

hey

[lucca261]

Am I allowed to say what I am? Also, do mafia have a PM group on this version of the game? I assume that’s what you’re implying

Why did you want to claim on one of your first posts if you are a VT

[lucca261]

E-2 btw

[lucca261]

I'm down to fade Jacob

I feel like he TMI'd that Hu Tao was the scum kill

That doesn't sound like TMI to me, just common sense. Although I guess Jacob probably doesn't have a great grasp of Not_Mafia's reputation so maybe a little more questionable coming from him.

-Atalanta

Why would he assume HT is the mafia kill and Not_Mafia is a town shot if he's not mafia? If he was town and two people got shot, he would've been way more confused about wtf happened given the supposed lack of knowledge about a SK (in his words)

[lucca261]

at least let's wait until Shaddow, Cakez and Roden are online

[lucca261]

Is there an full list of roles anywhere btw?

[lucca261]

Well, second post

viewtopic.php?t=86428

Yeah, I had checked this. Just wanted to know if there's a full numbered list of possible roles. I made one in preparation for the game, but I'm concerned I've missed something.

Regardless, I'm curious to see what the remaining players who haven't commented think about this

[lucca261]

As every player has talked on D2 and no one has an explanation for what happened, consider this a Jacob E-1 vote

Whenever we're ready for D2 to end, i'll vote

[lucca261]

yeah it isn't your fault regardless of alignment

shit happens and it's shit that it happened on your first game
that said I truly believe you are scum and i'm ready to also end the day as I believe there's not a lot left to gain prolonging a lim that is going to happen I believe regardless

[lucca261]

Anyway, if this flips red then the hydra is incredibly townie

Agreed to that

Shouldn't you know you won't flip red

[lucca261]

Well, even with Jacob's head on the chopping block, we still have the discussion of who we *would* have axed today had JV not annoynced a redcheck.

Limpool would've still been STD or Skygazer for me. Maybe with a little Jacob sprinkled in because I didn't want to vote for the complete new player who replaced in late D1 but I thought Mucho was scum

[lucca261]

Jacob is doing a good job of stirring a little paranoia on my head because I think scum would've given up at this point

Regardless,

VOTE: Jacob

[lucca261]

yeah that avi is good it feels like zelda is reading my ISO and really didn't like it

[lucca261]

like your avatar too jacob feels very early 2010's with the slightly low-def pic

something I would've seen on Facebook you know

[lucca261]

I'm the one that caught him, let me be the one to end him >:)

Be careful what you wish for.

To my townies: I'm still not sure on JV. If he's mafia then he's pretty brave for going so hard at the beginning. At the same time, the numbers point to his guilt.

I'm not sure why scum!JV would pull this gambit just to fade you

Maybe to get exactly this comment about him, but I really think Jacob is flipping red because the ironic "we can still do this, guys!" bit is like a sitcom character or that drake gif about injuries

[lucca261]

I would've gone with (as though this is surprising) Shadez, Black, and Dragons.

Mainly Dragons. I'll reeval Shadez and Black over the night

So I checked out Black on the overnight and I.. didn't like what I was seeing


Also, Jackson. Would you care to explain why our good friend Jacob was found to be suspicious underneath your watching eye? I think you need to claim good sir.

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Is this a guilty claim?

[lucca261]

or did you check her ISO

[lucca261]

on Black

[lucca261]

now JV tell me the truth

you aren't pulling a gambit here are you

[lucca261]

you tell me you have made a list of all 150 roles, knew exactly which ones could interfere with your action and then on the following night just randomly picks an ascetic player to investigate

like this is a very inconsistent effort level

[lucca261]

This isn't really game-indicative but like Clap was an alt from a ban-evading player who was faking being not that experienced, wasn't he?

Couldn't the entitlement come from that?

[lucca261]

my point is not about experience, but I digress

[lucca261]

Jake, did you read the ISOs of both Shaddow/STD during the night as well?

[lucca261]

my point is not about experience, but I digress

That was your entire post?

I don't really know how to say my point without being like an asshole so I'll just say that I'll believe Clap would be annoying and abrasive regardless of alignment considering what I've read from his behaviour on his other account

[lucca261]

I don't really agree with @959 as well.

It's all technically fine, but kinda stretched in a way that I think you're either confbiased or trying hard to create something out of nothing.

Point 2 (the one about posting relevant stuff) isn't a contradiction at all and I don't know how you can come to this conclusion. Even if it was a contradiction, would it be scummy?

Point 5 (about Jacob and the bloddlust) is very NAI. I think there are more than five players who were as bloodlust-y over Jacob as Black. Cakez, for example. Or Shaddow.

Point 6 (about the NKA reaction) disregards that Jacob was a player on his first game, something that was brought up (I think by Argo to me) on that same day. There's a clear difference about how a newbie would feel towards Not_Mafia and how about an experienced player would feel towards him as a result of a night kill. The fact that this was brought up on the thread and you are ignoring it to further your case? Scummy to me, I'm sorry.

---

A lot of your case feels like playstyle differences and accusations of low/lazy activity, when half the playerbase is actively lurking the thread. 90% of what you posted as scumpoints for Black can be used against everyone on the game

[lucca261]

like read your points and read Shaddow ISO

"Most of these posts are either responding to light to moderate accusations your way or being a bit too over defensive on what you're saying."

isn't 99% of Shaddow's posts exactly like this?

[lucca261]

do agree about the claim though and I really want to think I are people so smitten with Jacob as conftown

[lucca261]

EBWOP: JV, not Jacob

[lucca261]

I'm just frustrated that I keep saying that I'm not claiming and he keeps trying to argue or push that I should. It feels like I was a broken record

Can we agree that if it's D4 or D5, limlo, stuff stops making sense and you go: "so I was actually a role cop, the loyal claim was just a gambit" or something like that, I'll just vote you on the spot?

that's what makes me paranoid about this situation

[lucca261]

so hey Cakez when you come back to the thread wanna explain why you fake claimed miller of all things

thanks!

[lucca261]

i like the argument on the preceding pages because it's very funny

on one side Black is the towniest townie who has ever towned, pratically an angel who has come down from heavens to teach players how to be town. every one of her posts? incredibly town.
on the other Black is the scummies players who has ever graced Mafiascum. literally a demon. all her posts are scum confessions. before posting, she laughs maniacally while humiliating us poor townies.

that to say I think at least one of them is faking the read

[lucca261]

so hey Cakez when you come back to the thread wanna explain why you fake claimed miller of all things

thanks!

He fake claimed it?

during N1 I was re-reading the game and realized Cakez had claimed ascetic miller

the only ascetic miller role on this game is a two-shot vig which is why I was waiting for him to come back into the thread D2 because could've killed Not_Mafia and would explain a lot about Jacob's actions
but I find unlikely that there is a vig in this game especially an ascetic one

wasn't going to say anything but he's lurking very heavily and people are believing his claim so it's time to at least comeback into the thread

[lucca261]

i like the argument on the preceding pages because it's very funny

on one side Black is the towniest townie who has ever towned, pratically an angel who has come down from heavens to teach players how to be town. every one of her posts? incredibly town.
on the other Black is the scummies players who has ever graced Mafiascum. literally a demon. all her posts are scum confessions. before posting, she laughs maniacally while humiliating us poor townies.

that to say I think at least one of them is faking the read

Is this really the jist of the conversation

Now I really want to read it

honestly was exaggerating a little to be funny (majorly on JV part), but his big post on @1198 is a very big defense outside of like one sentence justifying why all of your posts make sense as town

and you know that Jake has read all your posts as scum so it was ironic to me

[lucca261]

I think Jake is more likely to be scum on the conversation if it isn't TvT tbh

[lucca261]

sorry for outing you in that case but like I thought it was necessary

now we have something else to talk about at least

[lucca261]

isn't there a SK that actually can't kill on the role list?

[lucca261]

can you guys explain the STD townread for me because I don't really see it

is it meta?

[lucca261]

Sure, let's go

VOTE: Skygazer

[lucca261]

my PoE

Argo/Black are my biggest townreads, not voting them today
Don't see either JV/Cakez or JV/Jake as SvS. Maybe there's SvSK in there, but very unlikely they're partnered. I think at least one of the claims is true. I'm going back and forth all the time on Jake tbh, will re-read their ISO today to try and get a better conclusion

That leaves STD, Skygazer, Shaddow.

I could go either way. Warming up to Shaddow again, as his effort level seems more inconsistent. He just posted on the thread when he was being wagoned and disappeared afterwards. I was starting to like him more on end-of-D1/D2 because of the Jacob/Macho Man read, but the flip was not good to him.
@789 is weird because Shaddow was scumreading the slot since the start of the game, feels like he was hedging his bets or at least knew Jacob wasn't flipping scum. In fact, you could say Mucho/Jacob was his only consistent scumread. He was on me for a hot minute on D1, went away just after I started looking elsewhere. Was conveniently on Invis, creating a read just after the wagon started. So pushing 'ehh, I was starting to scumread him' is a little untrue.

STD is the same. I still see the detached 'see how I care' townie play. I see nothing at his ISO that indicates motivation as per @1266. The random townreads of him makes me feel even more uneasy and he makes sense as partnered with like everyone because of it. JV and Cakez townreading him while Jake voted him randomly on D1 and then didn't on D3 when there was a start of a wagon on him makes me uneasy, because I don't see JV, Cakez and Jake all being town together.

Skygazer let's wait just a bit as while I'm writing this I believe there was a claim so let me read first

[lucca261]

ehh, I don't think the claim changes my opinion on the slot as it's a safe bet, but could very well be true

the thing about Skygazer that gives me pause is the voting pattern on D1. First Macho, then Argo, then Invis. Two slots we know now are town, and Argo. Specially given the "consolidating" comment on one of the voting posts (@543), as it's a pre-defense justification from Skygazer who hasn't been that open with his thought process on any of the other votes.
there were some other posts which concerned me also like @544 or @576

---

as I pointed in @713, Argo's wagon was composed by 80% of the players who ended voting Invis out.

Invisibility (EXECUTED):

shaddowez, Black, SirCakez, Jake The Wolfie, Save The Dragons,

Hu Tao,

Skygazer,

Roden

Argonauts (5):

Invisibility

,

Save The Dragons, Black

,

Roden

,

Skygazer

That indicates to me that Argo's wagon had scum in them. Of the three players both on Argo and Invis, I think Skygazer is a little more scummy than STD so I'm voting them.

[lucca261]

been meaning to do a post like this for a while finally I got motivated

[lucca261]

How can I be partnered with everyone

I think a lot of players are acting weirdly about your slot

[lucca261]

I don't see how Skygazer fake claims neighbor as SK, sure. It would be very risky.

But as mafia? There are three public claims on the thread and if he is mafia, he mostly knows their viability. He could have a partner who is a sole neighbor as mafia. He could be a mafia PR who knows the roles of other town players. He could've just rolled the dice and taken the odds no one is a neighbor. Or he could be town.

The claim is NAI. Rest is all WIFOM and an easy point for scum to deflect/push the wagon. And where the fuck is Shaddow?

[lucca261]

missed the prod just above but I guess it's good timing

[lucca261]

i'm on team lets not vote out skygazer

I am always on Team Skygazer

Unfortunately for you, the team what wants to vote you out

Also, and maybe this is a Drew read(err, Asclepius read), but it feels to me that this wagon kinda stagnating and even people hopping off makes me feel like scum thought the wagon would naturally dissipate.......but lack of activity these past few days have forced the hand of the members of scum to leave the wagon to make sure their buddy is not limmed.

Like, usually an early day wagon doesn't stick, so no need for scum to worry too much.......but this one has stuck, with no real counter wagon.

This obviously is only relevant if Sky is Team Scumbutt, but just was something I was thinking about at work today.

-Asclepius

Just before I say what I wanted to say, you'd need some pretty agreeable people in a hydra now that I've realised it cuz imagine a hydra just voting the people they want out and then refusing to let another head get their vote, who also just votes whenever the heads change it. Crazy

Regarding this post, I wanted to sit on this to see what I thought of it given some time to think (I responded to it initially to acknowledge it). What would be the difference between a stagnant wagon (because scum would hope it drops off) to a stagnant wagon because the Town likes where the gamestate is?

I've seen the argument "stagnant game, scum controlled game" my words that I came up with on the spot but I've never seen it framed in the way you said it here. Can you elaborate on that?

I don't see scum having this viewpoint Argo thought about unless the entire team or at least 2/3 of the team is composed by the most active players on this thread.

This game itself is stagnant sometimes. Unless scum knows that town is a little lurkery and wouldn't push Sky that heavily, they wouldn't believe the wagon would naturally dissipate. If scum is less active and town is driving the conversation, it's way more likely that the wagon continues to get traction or just disintegrates completely in a more sudden manner.

But this is just at the top of my head and I wanted to engage on this

[lucca261]

are you changing your read on Argo, JV?

[lucca261]

not based on just this, was skimming the last few pages and I felt you being pretty defensive around their spot on a way you aren't with Black, for instance

then got curious

[lucca261]

not based on just this, was skimming the last few pages and I felt you being pretty defensive around their spot on a way you aren't with Black, for instance

then got curious

Like with the math? Or more than that? But nah, I town-read them pretty strongly

The math, this theory about the stagnating wagons, the bitch-please stuff, the playful 'shoot this guy' chain discussion that ended on @1369. It all felt weirdly adversarial, yet mild-mannered

[lucca261]

yeah that avi is good it feels like zelda is reading my ISO and really didn't like it

I didn't see this until just now

What do your reads look like lucca

My read are mostly on @1307 and @1313

a little concerned that my biggest scumreads are on less active slots though
feels like I'm missing stuff even if I'm confident that at least two of the three S's are scum

[lucca261]

also concerned that 90% of Invisibility content is talking about Not_Mafia when NM has been doing nothing since like page 7
the "My worldview is based around Not_Mafia" on @459 is weird for me based around on how detached Invi is from the game

like it kinda tells me he was worried about how people would read his catch-up? (not necessarily something only scum would be worried about, but given how detached he feels...)

lucca says this about Invis, but then never mentions them again until D2, where he's pushing people that voted for Invis.

This is a misrep that only comes for someone blatantly distorting my views to push me. At the time, I've indirectly mentioned Invis and explained why I thought that wagon was scummy. Let's go over the facts, shall we?

On @613 I criticize Invis post, yes. On the same post, you may realize I criticize also Jacob/Mucho and Skygazer.

This is the VC in question during this point:

Invisibility (5):

shaddowez, Black, SirCakez, Jake The Wolfie, Save The Dragons

Argonauts (3):

Invisibility, Roden,

Skygazer

shaddowez (1):

Not_Mafia

Jacob24 (1):

JacksonVirgo

Not_Mafia (1):

Hu Tao

Jake The Wolfie (1):

Argonauts

lucca261 (1):

Jacob24

Not Voting (1):

lucca261

Then on @627, the end of my catch-up, I vote Skygazer. There were two days until the end of the day. I was clearly trying to create a new wagon, since I wasn't confortable with the wagons on both Invi and Argo, as I explained on the start of catch-up, on @609.

Shaddow's argument no. 1 is:

"lucca says this about Invis, but then never mentions them again until D2

Wrong. @711, a p-edit post two minutes after the hammer, explains that I could vote Invi, but I was concerned with [Shaddow, Jake, STD, Skygazer] in the wagon, given that the wagon consisted of the same people that voted for Argonauts. Check it: I wanted to push people inside the wagon on D1 before the flip. I had written this post before the hammer, as you can clearly see by the timing. @713.

Not only I mention Invis before D2, but I explain why I wanted to push people that voted for Invis before even the flip. So Shaddow's post is clearly baseless. Invis wasn't even limmed/flipped. Even if I'm scum, he could've been the SK.

Shaddow's argument no. 2 is:

where he's pushing people that voted for Invis"

The only player I voted on the clusterfuck D2 is Jacob. As you can see, on @715, Jacob did not vote for Invis. Sure, on @854 I say that the limpool would've been Skygazer/STD. But this is an answer to @820. Nowhere I pushed anyone that voted for Invis on D2.

D3? Arguably. I wanted to lim in-wagon, true. But the only post in which I use a vote on Invis as a justification for a scumread is @1313. Even there, it's a lot more substancied than just "pushing people that voted for Invis".

As everyone can see, this little phrase that Shaddow wrote about me is a lie. It makes no sense given my game, it clearly misreps the situation of the game, my posts, my thought process (which is written on the text). Every sentence is inaccurate.

---

If it had just been a naked read, it's ok. People misremember things all the time.

But check @1491.

Probably lucca. I've had a mild SR there, and upon an ISO review it grew stronger

Think about the arguments "never mentions them again until D2" and "where he's pushing people that voted for Invis". Would someone who has done an ISO review misremember something that could've easily been checked on seconds? No.

Another example: the post Shaddow quoted is #28 on my ISO. The post Shaddow lied about? #33. How did he not realize that other post existed unless he's lying about it?

VOTE: Shaddow

[lucca261]

Also @1500 comes just after Black is starting to have doubts about my slot on @1499 so it's just an argument taking out of nothing to try and convince Black. That's a scum mindset.

[lucca261]

Really, Black?

[lucca261]

Like... on @1444 you asked for my reads, I've pointed them out to you and you just ignored it. Then you suddenly think I'm scum at the same time than Shaddow comes back into the thread and starts pushing me out of nothing

this is really weird and makes no sense to me

[lucca261]

Really, Black?

Do you townread StD?

No? Check @1307

[lucca261]

lol, this is great. You're accusing me of "blatantly distorting my views to push me". Let's go over the facts, shall we?

Of the

10

times that you mention Invisibility at all before 1527, you use "Invi"

twice

. Upon reviewing your ISO, I did a search for "Invis" and did miss those two instances in that one post. That post, which conveniently happens to be saying you'd be willing to vote there, still not voting there, and after the hammer. So yes, it was close to the other post, but I didn't see it based on my specific search for which I was using.

Then 1529 is just laughable. I said in 1495,

before

Black said anything about you.

So, where's the misrep?

So, where's the misrep?

did miss those two instances in that one post. So yes, it was close to the other post, but I didn't see it based on my specific search for which I was using.

So, where's the misrep?

did miss those two instances in that one post. So yes, it was close to the other post, but I didn't see it based on my specific search for which I was using.

So, where's the misrep?

did miss those two instances in that one post. So yes, it was close to the other post, but I didn't see it based on my specific search for which I was using.

Missing my posts because of a searching error isn't misrepping someone?

So I would be more townie if I had voted for

Invi

?
Also: that post came three minutes after the hammer. So you think I saw the hammer and just went running to write a post pretending I would've voted a town player on E-1... after the hammer and before the flip?

What do I gain from it?

@1495 is not scummy. It's reasonable. The one that looks rushed and suspicious is @1500, as I clearly stated/analyzed on the post you quoted.

[lucca261]

I did miss that it was E-1, to be fair

[lucca261]

back here, sorry for the inactivity

got a little heated unexpectedly (sorry Shaddow, think I crossed the line a little bit) and decided to take a day break
here now, reading

[lucca261]

this was really fun, guys!

sorry for replacing out, @STD.
mad that I forgot about the JV crumb and just... believed his claim. knowing he was the traitor would help a lot

gg