Open 901 - Normal Idea Mafia Redux - Postgame

[Black]

VOTE: Argonauts

Consider this a vote for Aureal

[Black]

VOTE: Mucho Man

[Black]

that is a gross mischaracterization and i will not stand for it

Will you sit for it though

[Black]

wya Black we need to talk peaceably

I'm at work brother

All the question does is help me understand her for future games. That's why I prefaced it with "Just curious."

What purpose would town!you genuinely have to ask that question. "Do you purposefully say specific things to avoid giving information". Even if you get a yes or a no, it's a useless answer. It feels like you weren't genuinely asking it, more so making a point about what they were saying (aka shading them) or you were asking a question for the sake of appearing to do something pro-town (busywork). You say you explained it but you barely did such a thing, you gave shallow and unprovable reasoning and pretending like it's foolproof? I don't actually care too much about the message itself, one argument is one argument it's not damning by any stretch of the imagination but the way you're acting is almost entitled

You put into words what I was pretty much thinking about Clap's question

[Black]

Clap just got banned lol? So no response for me I guess

[Black]

What a loser

[Black]

hi guys time to reed

Hi! Happy to see you playing again

What a loser

We get STD now so woohoo

Such an improvement

[Black]

@Black

, since you said I put in words what you were thinking. Thoughts on what I concluded from that? I personally feel reluctant but I do think that realistically that comes from town more than not

I've heard people say that a sense of entitlement comes from town but I haven't really put much thought into determining if that's true or not. It makes sense in theory. I feel like scum want to be less combative early on

[Black]

I just feel Town has a substantially higher chance of acting entitled because there's no inherent noose dangling over their heads like there is for wolves + they don't feel the need to have a good image

That makes sense, but the last part I don't really agree with. I think certain players feel the need to seem townie when they are town. If people find me as town then I feel like I'm doing something right and the PoE is reduced for the people that townread me, which helps them narrow in on the baddies

[Black]

Ok yeah I see what you're saying

[Black]

I just feel Town has a substantially higher chance of acting entitled because there's no inherent noose dangling over their heads like there is for wolves + they don't feel the need to have a good image

That makes sense, but the last part I don't really agree with. I think certain players feel the need to seem townie when they are town. If people find me as town then I feel like I'm doing something right and the PoE is reduced for the people that townread me, which helps them narrow in on the baddies

I'm glad you said this because I was gonna cite you as an example of it

-Atalanta

[Black]

why so many questions so early Jackson

this is a weird thing to ask

Maybe. But would scum ask that?

Why are you acting like scum don't shade people all the time

[Black]

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This is really pretty

[Black]

why so many questions so early Jackson

this is a weird thing to ask

Maybe. But would scum ask that?

Why are you acting like scum don't shade people all the time

I don't think that's shade. I think that's just a question that's weird

Based on lucca's posts he definitely scumread Jackson for asking so many questions. Maybe we have different definitions of shade but to me it seems like lucca was trying to make Jackson look bad with that question

[Black]

why so many questions so early Jackson

You need to answer why you asked this next time you pop into this thread

Gut read kinda telas me you were trying to get the "town trying to get us out of RVS" townpoints

but at the same time i'm afraid its just a residual vibes read of the other time we played together, i thought you were scum and you were town

Do you think there are differences between his play in that game and in this game?

[Black]

Unironically suspecting shaddowez

I agree. My man is afraid to be in the ring
VOTE: shaddowez

Unironically, I think SirCakez needs to be looked into more. Anybody play with them? Do they usually jump into the fire ASAP and do nothing else?

In Pokemon Mafia his activity was pretty meh and he was town so I'm not really too concerned about his one post yet

I'm not having any strong reads so far either way.

Same. I think I like JV but the rest is a jumbled mess

Only read I can get so far is that not_mafia seems to be putting more effort in this game than the last one he was town in with me in it.

Yeah it's almost like he's trying to solve the game. I'm not sure how to read that

Ah okay. I'll try to explain.

That one about entitlement had nothing to do with clap. I didn't even really look at their post. It was just my opinion on people in general being entitled during a game of mafia. I think scum is more likely in general to play things safe and try to be agreeable with town as to look to be Town read, whereas town is more acting naturally and not worried about how people perceive them.

In terms of the post about lucca, I guess it ties back to how I think scum usually play the game, they might try to avoid posts that could draw suspicious looks. Like the lucca one on the surface seems weird to ask but I think that he could just be town and curious why you're asking questions and wasn't worried about how it's perceived.

Hope that clears it up

This is the longest post you've written since Micro Normal 1094. You didn't roll scum did you

[Black]

What prompted this change

[Black]

I'm a changed woman. I'm actively trying to explain things in detail more if people want me to.

Hu just layed something upon the floor, I feel as if I should pick it up

Hmmm, makes me feel she has changed a bit

-Asclepius

What

[Black]

Drew are you drunk

[Black]

Hu Town

[Black]

That post brought to you by this song I have been playing on loop since i found it in an older playlist

I love this song. Ronnie Radke makes good music

[Black]

1.05

Votecount 1.05

[...]
Mucho Man Randy Passion (1): Black, JacksonVirgo
[...]

(Just wanted to point this out to the mod.)

VOTE: Black
cmon.. do something..

Thanks, fixed.

- Alianna

What would you like me to do? I have a couple of minor reads already but I'm mostly vibing for now. I tend to be busy on the weekends

[Black]

@Mucho Lassy

What are your thoughts on Black? What about the fellows who go by the name of Argonaughts?

Oh a Wolf? Hopefully in name only

But oh dear, only two fellows and one sassy lady though are aboard this ship.......I will also send the the nearest Sophist to assist you with spelling, it will be my pleasure to make sure your intellect is in tip top shape

Also, is there an issue with Black? Despite her name I feel like her soul shines like the purest light

I don't mean to make light as well, but I fear Dionysus has given our dear mod a nectar of the vine or two

-Asclepius

If you pocket me can I ride on the ship?

[Black]

I know that it's a very frustrating answer to recieve, but I would like you to do more substansive things.

Hm, to give you a direction to head in, I have yet to sink my teeth into Mucho Madam's posts. Could you try your hand at that?

I disagree with the assessment that I haven't done anything substantive, but I'll keep your wishes in mind. In the meantime I'm gonna keep doing my thang

[Black]

My experience with Black is that she's usually super aggro, the chill vibes make me think "that's a pod person" but at the same time I don't really want to punish her for that with the threat of elimination

I think if she is town that she'll suddenly pounce on someone when we least expect it and start ripping out throats

I can be chill at the beginning of games. I haven't found anything to pounce on yet

[Black]

Feel good about HT and Black so far.

Did you get a chance to read my question to you?

[Black]

I kinda feel like there's some solving going on underneath Mucho Man's gimmick. This slot feels hard to read but they might be town

I don't really have any scumreads yet so I'll just help out on another wagon

VOTE: shaddow

[Black]

I need some scumreads

[Black]

Maybe scum are in the lurky do-nothing slots. It kinda feels like most of the dominant posters so far are town

[Black]

Black, my dear, this doesn't seem like you, usually you sink your teeth in a bit more than this. More an observation rather than a read, but is making me say hmmmm

shrug

I would love to sink my teeth in but there hasn't been a lot happening this game

[Black]

I agree that NM seems a little different than normal. Maybe more engaged and active early which I haven't seen from him much. I'm not really sure this is scum indicative though

[Black]

Summary of some reads so far:

Town-lean on Argo, STD (

Clap

), and JV.
Scum-lean on lucca, Invisibility, and Macho (I know we're waiting on a replacement there).

Why Invisibility?

[Black]

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Why did I go from the bottom of your list to the top?

[Black]

Yeah I agree

[Black]

I don't really like how he's positioning to push Lucca and I regardless of what shaddow flips but otherwise I'm getting town vibes there

[Black]

more later maybe

For your awareness:

You are going to be my main push tommorrow should more not happen between now and then.

Why not push him now? What did you think of shaddow's catch-up?

[Black]

Like I get wanting to vote Black, but I do feel a town vibe from her posts even though she is being lazy lol.

How am I being lazy?

[Black]

With all that you said on your page 16, shouldn't you be voting me or Black?

I like this observation. I think it's probably +town for lucca to point this out. Scum are probably more likely to just let Jake push StD here instead of drawing attention to themselves

[Black]

VOTE: Skygazer

[Black]

I think I still want not_mafia today. He is different from when he was town last time I played with him,. Definitely more reads. and then when I said it, he said 316

I think you should find something else to push. You haven't really done anything since Saturday and I'm worried that you are using this NM read as an excuse to continue to not do anything

[Black]

VOTE: Skygazer

wrong

Do something. Did you catch up yesterday?

[Black]

Is there any particular reason you're having a hard time getting into this game? Other than ADHD which I know you suffer from

[Black]

Well you've been here for an hour and responding to me pretty quickly so maybe we could get your thoughts on the game today while it's on your mind

[Black]

not to say they're not townie after page 5

i just got to page 5

Wait you haven't read any of the game in the last week

That's probably townie of you tbh

[Black]

VOTE: Invisibility

[Black]

Yeah I think sky feels townie here

[Black]

i think cakez/jv/hu tao are all townie

I am curious why you think Cakez is townie though

[Black]

Oh right. I actually completely forgot about that

[Black]

catching up again.
~o

Come on, let's hear it

[Black]

I'm not getting the same townie vibes from Invis's catch up that I got from sky's

[Black]

Sus

I don't think it is. Why would scum say that instead of just making up a reason?

[Black]

this game is weird

Why?

[Black]

It seems that lots of people are voting without reason. If someone can quote a post telling me why they are voting a certain way I may hop on board.

You may find it easier to accept that people have their reasons for why they're voting when they aren't expressed.

As for me, I'm voting Dragons to pressure them as they are low-activity. I would appreciate some extra support. [I may end up switching to Black/Shadez in a day if no one joins the dWagon.]

Strange that you would want to swap to me after saying earlier that I feel fine. What changed?

[Black]

Sus

I don't think it is. Why would scum say that instead of just making up a reason?

Because if it's a bad reason they will be suspected for it.

I don't think it's particularly hard for scum to come up with a decent reason. Hell she could have said "vibes" and it probably wouldn't have drawn any attention to herself

[Black]

VOTE: Argonauts

[Black]

I think Jake is probably town

Why do you scumread him?

[Black]

I don't don't need you Black, in fact look away from me so I don't run into stone

[Black]

I wouldn't say much has changed [I haven't ~really~ paid you much mind] in that regard.

Why would you not pay attention to someone you scumread?

[Black]

This just makes me think your scumread on me was fabricated. The read was based on you thinking I wasn't doing enough. The natural townie thought process would be to keep an eye on me to see if that behavior continues. I don't think it makes much sense for town!you to stop paying attention to me

[Black]

This just makes me think your scumread on me was fabricated. The read was based on you thinking I wasn't doing enough. The natural townie thought process would be to keep an eye on me to see if that behavior continues. I don't think it makes much sense for town!you to stop paying attention to me

Hm.

I

could

do that, or I could let your posts rest where they are and re-eval at a later time. It mostly depends on how relevant you are to my worldview at that time. And throughout those 200 posts, you weren't really relevant to my worldview.

Ok. Maybe this is just a difference in playstyles but I always consider my scumleans relevant to my worldview. Even if I'm pushing inactive slots, I'm always thinking about those scumleans and paying attention to what they are doing

[Black]

VOTE: argo

consolidating

Consolidating with 4 days left in the deadline feels a little odd. Why do you scumread Argo?

[Black]

I think we're shaping up to just flashwagon crazily at deadline like the first iteration of this.

I'm particularly interested in hearing from Black about her vote. I noticed she seemed to be following my vote for a while and now she's doing the opposite.

-Atalanta

I wasn't following your vote, at least not intentionally. I had to look at your ISO to see and all I noticed was we were on the shaddow wagon together

As far as my vote on your slot goes, it was mainly to pressure RH9 and also glean some reactions from the wagon. I had gotten success getting Sky and Invis to talk with pressure votes so I figured I'd do the same with you

[Black]

VOTE: Invisibility

I haven't really liked anything Invis has done this game

I also feel like RH9 posting several times that he's catching up and then disappearing is probably +town for them. I don't understand why scum!him would do that when he could just...not do that and let Aureal/Drew carry him. It's the type of unnecessary bad optics I don't really expect from scum

[Black]

lucca feels super townie to me

[Black]

Was liking Jacob 100% for town before he used the word ISO

it tells me he's totally capable of acting dumb around the setup to feel newtown because he has probably lurked heavily around the site tbh

Eh, I picked up on what an ISO was pretty quickly. If he were to keep acting clueless afterwards I could maybe see this, but if it was an act I think he'd be more likely to keep it up like "guys, what's an ISO?" rather than just adopting its use.

-Atalanta

Aureal do you townread Jacob/Macho Man? This is like the 3rd time you've defended the slot

[Black]

Maybe it was just twice. You defended Macho Man when Jackson was saying they were scummy for neutral hunting and now you seem to be defending Jacob

I don't really think it's scummy of you but it's just something I noticed. I'm curious what your read on the slot is

[Black]

I just didn't get/agree with those points against the slot

That makes sense

[Black]

I have no clue how to play around an SK. This is my first time playing with one

[Black]

Aureal is something else isn't she Hu?

I love her

[Black]

lucca feels super townie to me

Why so? Honest question, I'm not calling out or doubting

I just think a lot of his observations have come from a town perspective. I liked 422. 607 and 615 ping me as the type of paranoia a townie would have. I like the way he admits he's wrong in 610, not really a town-tell but it makes me feel like he's being reasonable. I like 613 as well, makes me think he's trying to legitimately solve

[Black]

lucca feels super townie to me

Why so? Honest question, I'm not calling out or doubting

I just think a lot of his observations have come from a town perspective. I liked 422. 607 and 615 ping me as the type of paranoia a townie would have. I like the way he admits he's wrong in 610, not really a town-tell but it makes me feel like he's being reasonable. I like 613 as well, makes me think he's trying to legitimately solve

I do agree about Lucca

Also Aureal would really love if you did her a solid here, I can't control her anymore lol

-Asclepius

I have a hard time believing you were ever able to control her

[Black]

I'm not sure if a Hu Tao vanity wagon is the best idea. We risk a no elimination with all these split wagons

It's time for all the people on the one-vote wagons to start consolidating

[Black]

That would mean they need to show up.

-Says the pot, I know.

She's here, we just can't see her

[Black]

Do people actually have suspicion on Invis? This feels like a lurker pressure wagon that's been left to coast too long.

I still like where my vote is. Invisibility showed up after I voted them, and their catch up felt like more of a "Oops, have to do something. I'm busy most of the day, but will do another read through and post more thoughts this afternoon.

It's crazy because the second sentence is exactly how I could describe shaddowez's reaction to being wagoned. Came back, did some basic stuff, then dipped again and is so clearly hypocritically going after Invis that he's pointing it out himself.

-Atalanta

I mean we can fade you instead?

[Black]

Someone give me a solid reason to vote invis. Shadow seems like a better option for mafia to me right now.

Invis wouldn’t be missed much by town with the inactivity however, so if needed I will likely vote that way.

Why is shaddow a better option

[Black]

VOTE: Cakez for the Miller claim

Why do you think the miller claim is a wolf?

Can you consolidate your vote?

[Black]

VOTE: Skygazer

Same for you. The Sky vote isn't helping here

[Black]

Pfft there's like 5 hours left, that's more than enough time to run up like three different wagons. This defeatism is depressing.

-Atalanta

If we want someone other than Invis dead then that would require like 6 people to be online on a Sunday, in a game where 10+ prods have already gone out. I don't think the likelihood of running up other wagons is very high here

[Black]

That’s awkward. Any town want to claim bad hit on NM? On my phone now so I can’t examine fully but want to get on the board early. Give me a few minutes

Why are you assuming town killed N_M when we have a Mafia kill and an SK in the game?

[Black]

That’s awkward. Any town want to claim bad hit on NM? On my phone now so I can’t examine fully but want to get on the board early. Give me a few minutes

Why are you assuming town killed N_M when we have a Mafia kill and an SK in the game?

Missed the SK, that's my bad. Most likely no town kill last night which makes more sense.

Ok, that's somewhat believable. But what made you think Hu Tao was the scum kill?

[Black]

I got a guilty btw

Let's fade them

[Black]

VOTE: Jacob

[Black]

I'm down to fade Jacob

I feel like he TMI'd that Hu Tao was the scum kill

[Black]

Some basic NKA:

Hu Tao was probably a Mafia kill. Given that there were generally good vibes all around, Hu Tao wasn't a loyal townread to everyone, but they were generally townread.
Not_Mafia was probably an SK kill. Not only because of the above, but also Mafia are unlikely to kill their prized cow, aiming to axe them instead.

I'll have to go back and check D1 to update this analysis.

Yeah I agree with this. Scum don't ever kill N_M here. He's too valuable to them

I don't really understand why the SK kills him either but here we are

[Black]

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I guess the SK could be someone low on this list and they felt like getting rid of him. Maybe shaddow or even just Jacob

If it's Jacob then that explains how he knew Hu Tao was the scum kill

[Black]

Yeah I don't really understand that question by Cakez

[Black]

Black Voted me before JV called out the investigation result on me (729) - which was somewhat explained in 721 but still of note I think.

Once JV said he got a guilty it was pretty obvious it was on you considering he opened the day voting for you

In post 770 she quoted Not_Mafia's post 382, where he put out his readlist thing from green to red, saying that the SK was someone low on Not_Mafia's list. This list was a troll list though right? With his own name at the bottom?

It's not necessarily a troll list just because he put himself at the bottom. The rest of the reads could have been real, and probably were

[Black]

Anyway, if this flips red then the hydra is incredibly townie

Agreed to that

[Black]

Meh whatever

VOTE: Jacob24

-Atalanta

This vote seems out of character for you. I'm not used to you being ok with ending the day so early

[Black]

This Alianna person should post more than just VCs, like their thoughts on Cook. She hasn't even been prodded this entire game!

I scumread Alianna.

[Black]

I don't know I feel meh about so many people in this game

True, I feel like you're town for thinking so though

I don't understand this read. Do you not think scum!Cakez could post something like that?

[Black]

I'm ready to get Jacob out of here and move on

I find it odd that you declared intent to hammer a few pages ago and now you're posting this. Kinda makes me feel like you're worried about the optics of hammering and are reluctant to pull the trigger

[Black]

Woah, Black caught me off guard with that avi change

I hope you like it

I wanted to match my new title

[Black]

I'm the one that caught him, let me be the one to end him >:)

Be careful what you wish for.

To my townies: I'm still not sure on JV. If he's mafia then he's pretty brave for going so hard at the beginning. At the same time, the numbers point to his guilt.

I'm not sure why scum!JV would pull this gambit just to fade you

[Black]

VOTE: Cakez

[Black]

It can't be a guilty claim so it must have been the ISO

Not sure what there's not to like

[Black]

or did you check her ISO

I looked over her case file, and I found that her actions were not for the town.

Make your case. Why am I scum?

[Black]

VOTE: Save the Dragons

[Black]

VOTE: Save the Dragons

Are you seeing something I'm not?

Do you think StD is town?

[Black]

Jake The Wolfie
Save The Dragons
Black
lucca261
Argonauts
JacksonVirgo
Skygazer
shaddowez
SirCakez

Out of these players I think there's scum within {StD; Cakez; Sky; shaddow}

The rest have shown some sense of towniness imo

[Black]

I do

Ok. Why?

[Black]

We can't let Alianna get #1000

50 posts away

We all need to come together and prevent this

[Black]

Look at her shiny new title

[Black]

I do

Ok. Why?

Mostly from their predecessor, who leaked entitlement like it was sweat and that was incredibly townie to me. Going back to the very early game and their interaction with me it didn't feel like scum at all and considering it was us "swinging" at each other that's pretty telling to me as usually in that circumstance just through inherent bias you get the feeling of scum when someone pushes against you or at least it does for me and I didn't get much of an ounce of scumminess from Clap while disagreeing entirely with what they were doing. It feels pretty cut and dry to me

Now that I'm writing this out, I'm now remembering Jake has asked me to claim like so much. Not just today,

@Jake

, what is in your head that makes you think a claim from me even remotely makes a difference in how you read me?

Can you point out what entitlement you saw?

The rest have shown some sense of towniness imo

Are you saying those four haven't at all?

After a quick skim through their ISOs I guess there is some townie posts in each of them. Not really StD's ISO but I saw a few in shaddow's, Sky's, and Cakez's

Maybe the rest of the list has felt more townie because they are more active and for the majority of the game I've been feeling like scum have been in the lurker crowd

[Black]

Paradoxically, you've implied that you've both posted enough relevant things to be active And that the game has been slow as a reason for inactivity:

Aureal was implying that I didn't feel like my usual self because I typically pounce on people early. I

was

posting relevant things, but I

wasn't

pouncing on anyone. This is not a paradox and I was not inactive

For day 1, most of your posts are 1 to 2 lines of questions or simple reads that you had.

This isn't scummy

Most of these posts are either responding to light to moderate accusations your way or being a bit too over defensive on what you're saying.

This isn't scummy either, and is actually something I do often as town. You can check my previous games if you'd like

You pushed Jacob. Hard. Like, really hard. For someone who had a red check on them, that might be understandable. But this is what you did for most of Day 2.

This is bloodlust.

Again, not scummy. That was me sinking my teeth in as referenced earlier. I tend to do that when I think someone is scum

For one of us (Jacob), you scrutinized them for what they said about the night kill, suspecting them for what they said while agreeing with what I said.

Importantly, the two actions that we took were very similar, and yet one of them was further evidence of their guilt while the other was something you could get behind.

You two said similar things in completely different ways. These are not comparable

This isn't literally shading Argon, but it's spiritually shading Argon.

I thought it was strange how she displayed behavior that she doesn't normally display as town. Of course I'm going to press her on it

Your case is poop

[Black]

Jake, did you read the ISOs of both Shaddow/STD during the night as well?

Unfortunately, my loyalties for that time were spend elsewhere. At least I read up on Black and got a neat little justification for scumreading them.

You are scumreading me for things that aren't inherently scummy. You might want to check your confbias. It feels like you have been reading my posts with rose colored glasses all game

And yet for some reason you haven't really pushed me? You open the day saying you think I'm scum but you vote for JV instead

I feel like a case of that size should be accompanied with a vote

[Black]

Crap I'm about to play Fortnite

Please for the love of God don't let her get #1000

[Black]

No

[Black]

Page

[Black]

Top

[Black]

[Black]

How dare you.

Modkill me I dare you

[Black]

@mod: V/LA until Monday

Noted.

- Alianna

[Black]

Jackson do you like my new new avatar? I think it's better tbh. The last one was made by AI apparently so I don't want to use it

[Black]

I haven't read the last several pages but I looked through them and saw a lot of Jackson/Jake stuff and a Jackson town case on me. Low-key worried about Jackson knowing my alignment but I need to actually read them tomorrow when I get the chance

Lurkers be lurking this game. Frequent lurkers are kinda annoying. They can just do nothing as scum and when you push them people say "oh they always play like that"

At some point we gotta hold these people accountable by just yeeting them. Yeah I'm looking at you listmods

[Black]

so hey Cakez when you come back to the thread wanna explain why you fake claimed miller of all things

thanks!

He fake claimed it?

[Black]

VOTE: Cakez

[Black]

i like the argument on the preceding pages because it's very funny

on one side Black is the towniest townie who has ever towned, pratically an angel who has come down from heavens to teach players how to be town. every one of her posts? incredibly town.
on the other Black is the scummies players who has ever graced Mafiascum. literally a demon. all her posts are scum confessions. before posting, she laughs maniacally while humiliating us poor townies.

that to say I think at least one of them is faking the read

Is this really the jist of the conversation

Now I really want to read it

[Black]

so hey Cakez when you come back to the thread wanna explain why you fake claimed miller of all things

thanks!

He fake claimed it?

during N1 I was re-reading the game and realized Cakez had claimed ascetic miller

the only ascetic miller role on this game is a two-shot vig which is why I was waiting for him to come back into the thread D2 because could've killed Not_Mafia and would explain a lot about Jacob's actions
but I find unlikely that there is a vig in this game especially an ascetic one

wasn't going to say anything but he's lurking very heavily and people are believing his claim so it's time to at least comeback into the thread

Wow. I just assumed someone better at mech would have double checked the role list. I probably should have checked but I'm lazy ig

[Black]

yeah i remember seeing the vig role and wrote cakez off as a townread bc he was self clearing

no vig shots so

How do you know there hasn't been a Vig shot

[Black]

I think a Vig is unlikely here unless SK/scum are holstering or if they are all targeting the same people which feels pretty unlikely

[Black]

i guess there is a world where cakez is vig and holstered or etc

but i feel like if cakez was a vig i'd be dead so

I guess what I'm asking is why don't you think any of the kills could have come from Cakez?

[Black]

Sky/Cakez/x

[Black]

StD feels fairly assertive and motivated this game which I associate with him being town

This is like the exact opposite of how I would describe StD this game

Even if you actually thought this, we saw assertive and motivated scum!StD in Pokemon Mafia so I don't even think the read is accurate

[Black]

Cakez what gives you the impression StD has been motivated and assertive this game

[Black]

VOTE: Skygazer

[Black]

I'm here today but I won't be able to read what I missed until I get off work

[Black]

and Sky claimed neighbor with no neighbors

Wtf

[Black]

Yeah I don't think Sky is the way to go

Why not

[Black]

Can you elaborate on that feeling at all

[Black]

No rush. We have 7 days

[Black]

UNVOTE:

Consider myself still on Sky, I just don't really want a hammer atm

[Black]

Nah, I think this is scum!sky

I feel like there is usually a point in Sky's town games where she buckles down and really starts to think critically about the game. I haven't seen that at all here. She's just coasting

Like I think sky posts reactively a lot but when she's town there's usually a moment where she feels guilty about not doing anything and then starts to be proactive for a bit before she slides off into obscurity again. I've seen it after her being pushed before but she got to e-1 and she's still just lurking around

[Black]

To me it feels like she doesn't really know how to believably seem like she's solving the game in the current game state. There are no signs of sky's town games here. No partner theories, no firm stances, no questioning people, no analyzing behaviors or posts or anything. There are no critical thoughts about the game

[Black]

I also think the entire Sky wagon is town

[Black]

VOTE: Sky

e-1 again

[Black]

VOTE: Sky

e-1 again

Does that mean you're okay with a hammer now?

Yeah. I wouldn't mind if we waited a couple more days but I talked myself into thinking sky is by far the best fade today and I'm a little worried her wagon might stall or people might move elsewhere

[Black]

To me it feels like she doesn't really know how to believably seem like she's solving the game in the current game state. There are no signs of sky's town games here. No partner theories, no firm stances, no questioning people, no analyzing behaviors or posts or anything. There are no critical thoughts about the game

Are you saying she consistently does absolutely nothing as a wolf?

Nah, I think she's capable of doing stuff as a wolf. I just think it comes more naturally and more frequently when she's town

[Black]

Sky is either scum true claiming neighbor or town true claiming

Lying about being a neighbor lends yourself to a potential counter claim

I would guess there are more town neighbor roles than scum neighbor roles but I could be wrong about that, haven't counted

Neighbor seems like a great fake claim for scum here actually. Thanks for pointing that out

[Black]

Could be

Shit haunts me

What sucks is I know it's a problem I have but my brain still tells me I've found more evidence every time

[Black]

I mean the amount of neighbours doesn't really matter. They claimed it, therefore it's a true-claim no matter what excluding a gambit which makes it NAI.

Why can't she fake claim neighbor as scum?

[Black]

I guess what I'm thinking is if Sky has a role that only scum has then she would have to claim something else

[Black]

I don't understand your comment. I'm saying if she has the role 2-Shot Roleblocker or something and the only 2-Shot Roleblocker on the list is a scum role then she can't claim that

If she's actually a scum neighbor then yeah she would just true-claim neighbor

[Black]

I just don't understand why she has to be a neighbor just because she said she is. It's really not that important but that comment confused me

[Black]

How does this relate to her being town? She may be more likely to be town, yes, but as you yourself have shown with Jacob, unlikely things can and do happen.

I believe Skygazer is town and I'm seeing my strongest town-read disagree completely with me so I'm talking about it. I can't convince her that I'm right (or her convince me that she's right) if we just throw the weight of the entire case at each other because we're both independently biased, that doesn't work. So I'm trying to pull it apart as best I can

Adding to this. She believes it's scum!AI when I disagree so I'm talking about it

I don't think the claim is scum indicative, I was just wondering why it had to be a true claim. I thought there were scum exclusive roles so if she is scum and has one then she would have to fake claim something, but I could be wrong. I can't look at the list atm

[Black]

And frankly the "odds don't matter, oh no a hammer intent waaaaaait stop let me calculate the odds!!!" comes off pretty desperate.

-Atalanta

I could see Jackson scum if sky flips scum. It's more of a tinfoil though

[Black]

That was a playful bitch please, should have expressed my tone better

I'm familiar with the phrase so I know you didn't mean harm, but I probably just wouldn't use that one anymore. Some people haven't heard it used that way or they may just not like being called that even if it has playful undertones

[Black]

yeah that avi is good it feels like zelda is reading my ISO and really didn't like it

I didn't see this until just now

What do your reads look like lucca

[Black]

That was a playful bitch please, should have expressed my tone better

I'm familiar with the phrase so I know you didn't mean harm, but I probably just wouldn't use that one anymore. Some people haven't heard it used that way or they may just not like being called that even if it has playful undertones

I have and it does not matter. I am not on 'playful banter' terms with Jackson and there is no reason for him to have thought we could be. It is an offensive slur used to demean a certain group to keep them in their place and its usage here was totally in line with that. It is not up to him to decide when it's okay to direct a slur at someone else and they should just be okay with it.

I agree with you

[Black]

Nah, I think this is scum!sky

I feel like there is usually a point in Sky's town games where she buckles down and really starts to think critically about the game. I haven't seen that at all here. She's just coasting

Like I think sky posts reactively a lot but when she's town there's usually a moment where she feels guilty about not doing anything and then starts to be proactive for a bit before she slides off into obscurity again. I've seen it after her being pushed before but she got to e-1 and she's still just lurking around

I would like you to prove your case here.
Is her current gameplay consistent with her scumplay, and atypical of her townplay? Provide a few of her games as evidence.

@Black

Do get to this when you have the chance.

Sure. It probably won't be tonight. Feel free to look over her games yourself though

[Black]

I think shaddow is town

[Black]

The main point on him is that he's not really here and not really doing anything but his activity is always sporadic, and I think there are some townie thought progressions in his ISO. When he's here he's doing stuff

[Black]

So scum is just Sky/StD and one of Lucca or Jackson is deepwolfing

GG

[Black]

So scum is just Sky/StD and one of Lucca or Jackson is deepwolfing

GG

Assuming that roles were not changed, with the claim I think it's Sky out of the first group.

I'm saying both sky and StD are probably scum

Sky/StD/x is my hero solve. X I'm leaning towards Lucca or Jackson

[Black]

Sky what are your strongest reads

[Black]

Oh ok. I hope you feel better

[Black]

UNVOTE:

Lemme think

[Black]

I don't really think Cakez is scum

Who is townreading StD and why?

[Black]

no fuckin clue sorry

I'm getting genuine non-invested vibes here. Maybe sky is playing us and just not trying to spew but I'm starting to think maybe that's not the case

I don't think there are great reasons to townread StD

[Black]

Sky if you are really not feeling this game then why haven't you replaced out? Am I even allowed to ask this question?

[Black]

I don't really think Cakez is scum

why not?

I believe his claim and I townread his exasperation after being forced to claim

[Black]

I townread me

Why should we townread you though

What townie things have you done this game

[Black]

no fuckin clue sorry

I'm getting genuine non-invested vibes here. Maybe sky is playing us and just not trying to spew but I'm starting to think maybe that's not the case

I don't think there are great reasons to townread StD

i mean i'm invested still, at least emotionally, my brain has just been mush for 13 days now

the good news is i've had zero ciggies in those 13 days

FUCKING CONGRATULATIONS! That is a monumental feat. 2 weeks is a long ass time and I'm sure it's taking it's toll on you. Keep it up!

[Black]

I don't really think Cakez is scum

why not?

I believe his claim and I townread his exasperation after being forced to claim

idk i did not buy the reasoning behind shooting NM. or maybe i just disagreed with the reasoning idk

have we had any kind of mass claim yet?

I don't think scum shoots NM, so it was either Cakez or the SK, or both. Or Cakez IS the SK. If that's the case I'm not really sure if we go for scum here or the SK? I've never played with one. Scum is more of a threat at this stage right?

[Black]

Wow maybe there are two deepwolves

StD/lucca/Jackson?

[Black]

Lucca is like... too townie. And I'm getting a bad feeling that he has an agenda here

[Black]

I'd rather go for his buddies though in case I'm wrong

VOTE: StD

[Black]

What happened to skygazer suspicion?

It's still there, I'm just having doubts

[Black]

Really, Black?

Do you townread StD?

[Black]

Like... on @1444 you asked for my reads, I've pointed them out to you and you just ignored it. Then you suddenly think I'm scum at the same time than Shaddow comes back into the thread and starts pushing me out of nothing

this is really weird and makes no sense to me

Really, Black?

Do you townread StD?

No? Check @1307

I'm sorry, I've been a little overwhelmed and I had a busy weekend that led into a busy week and I'm not fully grasping everything. I admit I should have looked at your stuff in more detail. I guess I've just been trying to live post but putting off some of the hard work because I like to do that when I get spare time at my PC but I've just been really busy lately and doing other stuff

I'll try to correct that. I still can't help my gut pings that you're a mustache twirling super villain but if it makes you feel any better you're like the last of my PoE I would want to vote out

Will you vote StD with me?

[Black]

I'm feeling like StD and Jackson are scum. Jackson's unwaivering belief that I'm not scum is just a bit too farfetched for me. I don't think Jackson should have a super confident read in what town!me looks like after only a couple games together. I think there's a good chance he's trying his best to pocket me because he's familiar with my tendency to townread people that townread/agree with me. He called me out on this behavior in a game that just ended in which he was scum, and I think he may be using it here to keep me off of him

Jackson tried to stop the StD wagon from happening at the beginning of the day so I feel there's some partner equity there. I haven't had the chance to really dive into their associations because busy but I'll try to do that soon

[Black]

On one paw I think it's pretty gutsy to scumread so much of the board

On the other paw I'm not sure I believe this progression. I don't see a case against me so it looks like a half hearted attempt to capitalize on cakez's comment retracting his read of my behavior. Why is her hero solve not including sky when she was so confident yesterday? What caused the doubts?

My reads are fluid. Interacting with sky caused the doubts. Maybe my gut read on sky's behavior is wrong but I want to listen to it for a bit and see what happens

Your instant dismissal and discredit is noted, as well as your appealing to the room vibes

[Black]

I don't believe you think I'm scum

I don't believe you just changed your read on sky from today's posts

That's tough

[Black]

VOTE: std

Sky honestly what is the reason

Black had yet to give a single reason

I believe you are town

I believe she couldn't get you mislimmed so she's coming for me

I believe that is a more reasonable progression than her fluid reads

I gave a reason in 1514. I don't have to share every detail of my read or thought in my head in order to do things

I don't think your scumread on me real, funny you mention that. I think if you had thought I was scum with sky and trying to save her then it would've been more believable, but now you're appealing to her and saying you townread her. You're just trying to get her off of you. Thinking I'm scum trying to jump off a wagon that was going to go through at some point just to put in a ton of effort to build up another wagon and recruit people to join doesn't seem like a real thought you should have

[Black]

I don't even know who scumreads you tbh. Probably not many people. You purposely play anti-town so when people push you as scum you can just say "I play like that yo"

Why would scum!me jump off sky when the sky wagon was at e-1 for like 3 days?

[Black]

VOTE: std

Sky honestly what is the reason

Black had yet to give a single reason

I believe you are town

I believe she couldn't get you mislimmed so she's coming for me

I believe that is a more reasonable progression than her fluid reads

your posting on the last page pinged me

tbf im still deciding on whether or not black's flip on me seems legit tho

I still think you could be scum playing me. I'm just a little sympathetic toward your situation and I found it to be a believable excuse for your absence and lack of interest in the game. I wanted StD before you

[Black]

on the one hand i was trying to get people to unvote me bc that style of apathy is often townread

on the other hand i feel like her unvoting me happened too easily

I explained why I did what I did. Now you tell me why you think moving off of you is scummy

[Black]

More votes on StD please

[Black]

I don't even know who scumreads you tbh. Probably not many people. You purposely play anti-town so when people push you as scum you can just say "I play like that yo"

Why would scum!me jump off sky when the sky wagon was at e-1 for like 3 days?

Ok so am I doing that here because I'm scum or because I'm town just playing like that yo

Sky wagon was at e-1 for days and it didn't go through so you changed targets to try to get a different mislim

You declared intent. Do you really think the optimal play for scum!me is to build your wagon out of sticks and stones instead of letting you eventually hammer sky?

You don't, because that would be a bad play, and that's why I think your read is fake. You really should have gone with the sky/Black team angle. It might have saved you here

[Black]

So you expected me to infer that and assume you were never going to hammer? Nah. Jackson said let him cook and I was under the impression you were honoring that. If I were scum I would have asked you or anyone else to hammer first instead of just jumping off

[Black]

I don't think it's a bad play because you actually are convincing people to vote me? What the heck are you talking about

I'm having to put in effort. I don't think there are 6 people that currently scumread you rn. It's an infinitely worse play for me as scum

[Black]

on the one hand i was trying to get people to unvote me bc that style of apathy is often townread

on the other hand i feel like her unvoting me happened too easily

I explained why I did what I did. Now you tell me why you think moving off of you is scummy

because an unusually quick reversal could be indicative of tmi/pocketing. just trying to figure out if that's what this is

It's not. I still think you could be scum. I'll hammer you if I have to. That's not really how I treat someone I'm trying to pocket

[Black]

So you expected me to infer that and assume you were never going to hammer? Nah. Jackson said let him cook and I was under the impression you were honoring that. If I were scum I would have asked you or anyone else to hammer first instead of just jumping off

No but the hammer wasn't happening

One would have happened eventually. There's no doubt in my mind about that

[Black]

Aw cmon Dragon, Black wouldn't use an ax. She'd use a compact longbow.

Hey, has anyone seen my longbow?

-Atalanta

[Black]

Jackson what are your thoughts here? I can't remember if there's any reason you townread StD other than his predecessor seeming entitled

[Black]

Sigh

Black: I am putting in effort, it's silly to think scum me would get off sky it wouldn't do anything
Also Black: convinces people to vote Std by saying "more votes on std"

I'm on mobile at work so I can't do the heavy lifting atm

[Black]

Let me break it down

I'm either

A. Scum who cracked and panicked at the slightest bit of pressure because I've never played a single game of mafia in my life

Or

B. Tired from lack of sleep, wired from coffee to mitigate lack of sleep, stressed out and pissed off from work, hungry from skipping lunch, and annoyed at being scumread for ??? reasons when I am town.

Less votes on std please

I'll see yall tomorrow I'm gonna take a break

Would you be willing to vote Jackson with me?

[Black]

I think your activity and posts have been unimpressive. I am sympathetic to rl issues so I will keep thinking about this but that's where I'm at now.

Shaddow's activity is NAI. What posts don't you like?

[Black]

Whether or not you can town read me is NAI by your own admission yet you're clinging to that as a reason to scumread me so I will decide if it's NAI.

As far as posts go let me look

I mean the fact that you play anti-town as town isn't really my problem. You're a wildcard. You should understand why people want you dead. You keep asking "why?" but there's your answer. Do more townie stuff and maybe people wouldn't have you in their PoE

As far as shaddow's activity, nah, you don't get to decide if it's NAI. It factually is. He plays like this all the time as town where he just disappears and doesn't do anything for awhile

[Black]

I agree with you that you playing anti-town is NAI, so it's not really hypocritical is it?

[Black]

That by itself is ok but when shadow comes back to the thread they are incredulous about the wagon forming on them, when they had done very little up to that point.

I feel like shaddow would just complain about being wagoned in the PT. I don't think it makes much sense for him to do that publicly as scum. It's bad optics

[Black]

Because if it was truly NAI then you wouldn't be able to say "he's scum because he plays anti town!"

And if that's not the argument you've been trying to make, please clarify

My initial vote on you was because I thought the main talkers were all town, and I was worried that you were lurking scum. I'll admit my read wasn't strong initially but then after you OMGUS voted me and pushed me based on really bad reasons I felt more confident that you flip scum. I think if your read on me had been more believable then your push might have had the opposite effect on me, but it wasn't, so it just felt like a complete discredit attempt built on a fake read

[Black]

And I have explained why your read doesn't work

You have yet to explain why scum!me would hop off of a guaranteed mislim to push you when there aren't even enough people that scumread you to fade you. Your read would make sense if you thought I was scum with sky, but you think she's town, so there's really no logic in your read whatsoever

[Black]

And then there's you backing off of me saying you're not even really sure I'm scum?

It's all fake. You know you can't fade me so you're going with the much easier mislim in shaddow

[Black]

Anyway I'm done engaging with scum now

If shaddow flips town you all better sheep me on StD tomorrow

[Black]

Sure, I could be tunneled. It wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last

There was no guarantee someone else would hammer or someone else wouldn't jump off. You taking initiative as scum you to look town is plausible.

If you are actually town here then you probably won't believe what I'm about to say, but I switched to sky and didn't rally anyone to fade her. I didn't case her and I didn't try to get people to hammer her. If I'm scum I would have done that before ever trying to build up another wagon. I would have asked you to hammer since you declared intent. When I'm town I have more fluid reads and I talk myself in and out of solves constantly. I don't choose to play this way, it's just the way my brain works. Maybe I need to pay more attention to things or have more confidence in my reads, idk, but whatever I need do to I just can't seem to do it

[Black]

I think the "trying to look town" is a decent reason and probably a valid thought. Did you consider that yesterday when you voted for me or did you just think of it?

[Black]

I will admit my mental state yesterday was not the best and I may have been rash

Having more clarity today I think that it is possible you dismantling the sky wagon out of an act to look town while still being able to shade them like you have would be a clever play and allow you to deepwolf until the end.. I don't honestly think it came to me at the time, though. I stand by what I said but I wavered on the strength of it as an argument, which is part of the reason I unvoted.

I can see this as a real thought, but moving off of sky had the opposite effect. You, lucca, and sky all suspected me for it iirc. Doesn't really seem like a good deepwolf play imo

[Black]

You could have coordinated this with a partner (Argo) to try and put pressure on me to see what would happen.

Don't I wish.

-Atalanta

I need your help solving this

[Black]

What are your thoughts on Jackson?