Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[Hu Tao]

You are making it very hard to scumread you, Naerys. lol

Good, beceause i am town.
Vivax and Grack it is. I didnt like Vivax in previous day and Grack has some pretty bad wagon positions.

I agree with this. At first I thought vivax was town but I remembered something he did that was sus. When I put gob at e-1 he unvoted. Originally I thought it was to protect oat but I think it was to give gob more time to fake claim a role.

How is this copying you when I gave my own reason? This was not your reason

[Luca Blight]

Also Darth would be probably easy pocket if u and vivax are scum together

Which makes it more probable to be Darth + Hu lol
bcz i dont see any pocketing attempts from either Vivax or Luca

That is a possibility. I'm glad you're at least considering it.

Is this literally not the pocketing you were just saying? Because you literally did not give me the same type of interaction when I said I would reconsider :lol:

Saying you will reconsider and actually reconsidering is quite different.

I literally fell asleep after I said I would reconsider. Why keep posting that I would reconsider after i didn't post after I said I would reconsider?

As I said, talk is cheap. You saying that you might reconsider doesn't mean a whole deal until you actually do reconsider. If I were scum with vivax I would hardly bank on you reconsidering based on that and suddenly go 1v1 with Darth, would I?

[Hu Tao]

I already said - I have tunnelled hard in this game too, albeit not on D1 and not based on meta. I never expected a locktown read, but I expected

some

development at least.

And I did change my read on you

[Hu Tao]

Naerys-

Luca,Vivax

Hu Tao-

Luca,Vivax

Luca-

Darth,Naerys

Vivax-

Darth, Luca

Darth-

Hu,Luca

Updated.

And DP had Lucas vote on him already and survived, it wasn't a wide span of time but a costly mistake if mafia with Darth. It adds fuel to the Darth mafia scenario so he can save himself in this phase.

Just from tone and reaction both Naerys and Hu felt townie to me on these pages. The Naerys switch to Oats is more likely to come from town because as mafia she'd know it could be used against her and there was no benefit to saving gob anyway cause he'd get auto'd the next day.

As an added benefit I can say I went into D2 with two correct guesses before everything got discombombulated again.

I'm likely changing based on last few pages

[Hu Tao]

Not even necessarily a townread - you haven't posted any thoughts on me at all except for a bad reaction to the reaction test, which wasn't even right as my reaction was to being wagoned. It feels like just keeping someone as a possible mislim option down the line by avoiding taking a hard stance.

I'm pretty sure I did, but maybe I just thought it. I'll check

[Luca Blight]

I'm starting to feel as though Naerys is more likely town, given she's actually reassessing her reads based on game developments.

:lol: what about when I said it? Is it because she was talking and I fell asleep?

Well, are you reassessing? Do you still think me/vivax are scum?

As I said I'm putting everyone back on the table. But I want you to explain why you think that I would reconsider you last game but not this one when I didn't last game

Because my play D2 onwards resembled that last game in many aspects. As I said, I could totally understand why you wouldn't TR me based on my D1 play this game.

Basically, you hard TR me based on hard, tunnelled pushes in the other game, but when I do the same this game your read doesn't change at all. Can you see why I find that a little suspicious?

[Luca Blight]

Right now I could see a world where both you and Naerys are town and the scum team is actually Darth/Vivax (who now thinks I'm scum with Darth again, lol).

I'm going to look into those interactions more.

[Hu Tao]

lets murder mafia ok?

Seems like a bit of a stretch. I don't see what makes Luca scummy. Especially for asking a question that makes sense

Luca is just commenting, they are not trying to solve.

So you're expecting someone to solve in the 5 pages? Also why was his question not trying to solve?

But you also think Luca looks scummy when he seems like the sanest person itt so meh, you might be mafia after all.

VOTE: outoforder

I agree that Luca doesn't looks scummy like OoO is saying but I did like one post from him so far.

I‘ve been devil‘s advocate for you, don‘t you think ?

That earned me a lot of criticism, but in the long run it also told me that nobody would have done the same for you. Just cost me the extra effort, but I wasn‘t pretending, I actually believed it. To find the devil means to play his game first.

Except maybe Naerys, she might have done something for you, who resorted to calling Oats mafia without having a firm stance on you. A chainsaw vote.

Let‘s try Luca/Naerys/Roden ? See if anything changes ?

I'm okay with voting Luca or maybe naerys. I think I'm leaning no on roden right now

I’m saying that voting for you doesn’t make her mafia.

It’s probably the most relevant thing she’s done this game and you aren’t engaging with it appropriately.

I never said it did make her mafia, I said I don't understand her thought-process on that, or much else.

How can I engage with a naked vote, exactly?

Lies. You literally just said it made me a scumread. Caught in your own web

I just want to show that day 1 my read did vary on you. I'll look at other days

[Luca Blight]

Yeah, but I'm not talking about D1. As I said, D1 my play was different from the other game as I found it difficult to get firm reads.

[Vivax]

Right now I could see a world where both you and Naerys are town and the scum team is actually Darth/Vivax (who now thinks I'm scum with Darth again, lol).

I'm going to look into those interactions more.

I really disliked your vote.
Your persona so far has always been calm and collected and it was an impulsive play that contrasted it. It implies you had the jitters and that the game wouldn‘t be over for town if you did it again I guess.

And I haven‘t forgot about the Oats cred thing which imo was damning and DP should have given more weight to instead of just weakly agreeing with.

[Hu Tao]

Top town
Dannflor, SuperfluousNinja, outoforder

Townish
Vivax, Grackaroni

Null
DarthPunk, Gob, Naerys

Leaning
Oatsmaster

Scum
Luca Blight

I'd say these are my overall tiers. I could move gob and naerys down if they don't do anything. DP I'm unsure how to read. Idk if scum would just pretty much try to Elim me over every little thing, I think could just be tunneled but unsure.

Okay I'm caught up. I'm for a DP vote. I'm unsure the vote count right now since it was wrong earlier

If not DP, who are the other two you'd want to lim?

Gob, Oats maybe Luca. I definitely liked Luca more in the catchup than dp for sure though.

Top town
Dannflor, SuperfluousNinja, outoforder

Townish
Vivax, Grackaroni

Null
DarthPunk, Gob, Naerys

Leaning
Oatsmaster

Scum
Luca Blight

I'd say these are my overall tiers. I could move gob and naerys down if they don't do anything. DP I'm unsure how to read. Idk if scum would just pretty much try to Elim me over every little thing, I think could just be tunneled but unsure.

What am I supposed to gather from gob and naerys when they basically said nothing from my claim

nothing ofc.

but the question is what are you supposed to gather from your (fake)claim?
So far you have gathered nothing afaik?

Nah. I think I got clarified on a few reads like vivax, oats, grack and Luca.

Imo it made Luca way worse for me. But I know you all scumread him heavily yesterday.

Okay I'm caught up. I'm for a DP vote. I'm unsure the vote count right now since it was wrong earlier

If not DP, who are the other two you'd want to lim?

Gob, Oats maybe Luca. I definitely liked Luca more in the catchup than dp for sure though.

Can you explain your read progression from Luca firm mafia to voting to yeet Luca's target?

Luca's catchup and back and forth with dp was better than dp. Which is why I voted dp instead earlier

He also explained his reaction which I initially didn't like which I thought was okay

I think my vote is going to be glued on oats for the rest of this day.

Anyone who happens to townread oats - just look through his iso and see him ask question after question, and make remark after remark without actually doing any proper analysis or doing anything of note at all. All arguments against him he dissects into fragments and asks for explanation after explanation, with the attitude of 'innocent until proven guilty'. It's what I used to do in past scum games - break every argument down into pieces and argue on a purely logical basis, which will never end up with a satisfactory conclusion, because of course oats is never going to admit to being scum, and will continue arguing and redirecting until either you lose interest, or people lazily start to write it off at tvt.

You need to look as much at what oats isn't doing as what he is doing. The vast majority of his post count is made up of filler and questions that lead nowhere. He hold his cards close to his chest and never seems to adapt his reads based on thread developments. Not to mention the blatant pocketing of his tl mates, namely Darth Punk.

Agreed oats is scummy

I see you writing a lot but not much substance behind it when you could just look at the wagons and draw conclusions in a more rational way.

Instead you're back to claims like Oats pocketing TL buddies and all that jazz which is a cheap way of sowing distrust. Most of your arguments are based on something not making sense to you and there's massive amounts of purely aesthetic floof.

VOTE: Luca Blight

Okay so I'm confused by this vote. Weren't you the one saying that pressure on gob was important? But you unvote because you want the people that are asleep to chime in on him when I put gob at e-1? And then you vote Luca once he starts going for oats? Not this seems like you're soft defending oats for a second time when at first I thought it was just because of Dann laying off the gob pressure

I've been pretty clear where my reads are. I think I've been giving reads pretty consistently when asked and when not asked. I literally just gave a few reads the last few pages. That's why I think you're lying about that.

2nd I guess I understand where you can see that. But that's just how I play I catch up and sometimes I'm not around. But I don't think it's as bad as you're painting it.

By very clear I mean reasons. You don’t elaborate on why you think someone is xyz, you just say it.

I’m 90% sure that I asked you specifically about the Luca -> dp transition and what made you make that change and you never responded

In terms of Luca I felt his tone was good. He seemed genuinely frustrated by the situation. I also agreed with his reads originally that you and dp were scum

And this is day 2. At first I did scum read you but even then i started to tr you a bit and even explained why. And vote dp when you were in a 1v1 with him. So maybe you forgot but my read did evolve on you

[Luca Blight]

Right now I could see a world where both you and Naerys are town and the scum team is actually Darth/Vivax (who now thinks I'm scum with Darth again, lol).

I'm going to look into those interactions more.

I really disliked your vote.
Your persona so far has always been calm and collected and it was an impulsive play that contrasted it. It implies you had the jitters and that the game wouldn‘t be over for town if you did it again I guess.

And I haven‘t forgot about the Oats cred thing which imo was damning and DP should have given more weight to instead of just weakly agreeing with.

oats cred? Not sure what you mean by that.

I felt in the moment that Darth was very likely to be scum based on his reaction to my suspicions, and I still do think he has the most chance of being scum out of anyone. Why would I suddenly vote my partner out of nowhere? I don't get why you would think that.

[Hu Tao]

Also Naerys I'm still waiting for you to show me where I was 'forced'

[Luca Blight]

Ok Hu Tao, fair enough. I did forget about your 3661.

[Naerys]

I need a break, gooing to do something else for bunch of hours.

[Hu Tao]

Ok Hu Tao, fair enough. I did forget about your 3661.

Does this change anything

[Hu Tao]

I need a break, gooing to do something else for bunch of hours.

Okay np. Let me know when you're back

[Luca Blight]

Ok Hu Tao, fair enough. I did forget about your 3661.

Does this change anything

Well, right now my feeling is that both you and naerys are more likely town and that the scum team is Darth/vivax.

[Vivax]

Town misreads town as scum in a game of mafia, more at 11!

I am scared of this and I am taking what you say seriously as you are basically cleared.

Otherwise I would have voted already.

For real, why do you think this means something? How many townies have incorrectly voted to yeet town in this game so far? Why is this one instance of Luca doing it so notable?

Cause his reads and actions don’t align

Are you concerned at all that the guy you are sheeping posted those quotes in the wrong order, or that he didn't tell you how many posts were inbetween, so that you wouldn't get a sense of how much time and how much post material he had to change his mind?

No, not really.

Luca said oats was always his bigger scum read and that he also thought gob could be mafia tracker .

Then why does he Think his strongest scum read would hammer his buddy?

Why would he not hammer his other scum read?

All of those are fair questions that vivax is pointing to.

You can add those to the mix but my concern is really just simpler than that. And now pretend I'm an angry Italian man who just saw you put parmesan on tuna pasta.

IF YOU THINK THAT OATS WOULD ACQUIRE GUARANTEED TOWN CRED FROM HAMMERING GOB BECAUSE YOU WON'T???
HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT OATS IS YOUR STRONGER SCUMREAD?

This one got buried under the ninja tunnel at the time.

Luca: 'Oats is my stronger scumread, but I'll let him hammer my weaker scumread gob for the precious cred'

[Hu Tao]

I'll wait for naerys to explain and to see dp's posts before I give my new team

[Vivax]

Right now I could see a world where both you and Naerys are town and the scum team is actually Darth/Vivax (who now thinks I'm scum with Darth again, lol).

I'm going to look into those interactions more.

I really disliked your vote.
Your persona so far has always been calm and collected and it was an impulsive play that contrasted it. It implies you had the jitters and that the game wouldn‘t be over for town if you did it again I guess.

And I haven‘t forgot about the Oats cred thing which imo was damning and DP should have given more weight to instead of just weakly agreeing with.

oats cred? Not sure what you mean by that.

I felt in the moment that Darth was very likely to be scum based on his reaction to my suspicions, and I still do think he has the most chance of being scum out of anyone. Why would I suddenly vote my partner out of nowhere? I don't get why you would think that.

I think I'm going to rule out Hu Tao/Naerys as a scum team. They could have ridden the Darth tunnel to victory quite easily.

So you're ruling out that Naerys and HT are mafia because they didn't vote Darth while thinking that Darth is scum?

How does that work? Found another nail in the coffin.

[Vivax]

Right now I could see a world where both you and Naerys are town and the scum team is actually Darth/Vivax (who now thinks I'm scum with Darth again, lol).

I'm going to look into those interactions more.

I really disliked your vote.
Your persona so far has always been calm and collected and it was an impulsive play that contrasted it. It implies you had the jitters and that the game wouldn‘t be over for town if you did it again I guess.

And I haven‘t forgot about the Oats cred thing which imo was damning and DP should have given more weight to instead of just weakly agreeing with.

oats cred? Not sure what you mean by that.

I felt in the moment that Darth was very likely to be scum based on his reaction to my suspicions, and I still do think he has the most chance of being scum out of anyone. Why would I suddenly vote my partner out of nowhere? I don't get why you would think that.

I think I'm going to rule out Hu Tao/Naerys as a scum team. They could have ridden the Darth tunnel to victory quite easily.

So you're ruling out that Naerys and HT are mafia because they didn't vote Darth while thinking that Darth is scum?

How does that work? Found another nail in the coffin.

[Luca Blight]

It was a facetious remark, vivax. I felt quite strongly at the time that oats/Gob/yourself were the scum team, but gob was the weaker of the three scunreads.

[Luca Blight]

Right now I could see a world where both you and Naerys are town and the scum team is actually Darth/Vivax (who now thinks I'm scum with Darth again, lol).

I'm going to look into those interactions more.

I really disliked your vote.
Your persona so far has always been calm and collected and it was an impulsive play that contrasted it. It implies you had the jitters and that the game wouldn‘t be over for town if you did it again I guess.

And I haven‘t forgot about the Oats cred thing which imo was damning and DP should have given more weight to instead of just weakly agreeing with.

oats cred? Not sure what you mean by that.

I felt in the moment that Darth was very likely to be scum based on his reaction to my suspicions, and I still do think he has the most chance of being scum out of anyone. Why would I suddenly vote my partner out of nowhere? I don't get why you would think that.

I think I'm going to rule out Hu Tao/Naerys as a scum team. They could have ridden the Darth tunnel to victory quite easily.

So you're ruling out that Naerys and HT are mafia because they didn't vote Darth while thinking that Darth is scum?

How does that work? Found another nail in the coffin.

No, you minsunderstood.

I meant that if naerys/Hu Tao were scum then they could have ridden on Darth's tunnel on me to victory without having to reassess anything.

[Hu Tao]

Right now I could see a world where both you and Naerys are town and the scum team is actually Darth/Vivax (who now thinks I'm scum with Darth again, lol).

I'm going to look into those interactions more.

I really disliked your vote.
Your persona so far has always been calm and collected and it was an impulsive play that contrasted it. It implies you had the jitters and that the game wouldn‘t be over for town if you did it again I guess.

And I haven‘t forgot about the Oats cred thing which imo was damning and DP should have given more weight to instead of just weakly agreeing with.

oats cred? Not sure what you mean by that.

I felt in the moment that Darth was very likely to be scum based on his reaction to my suspicions, and I still do think he has the most chance of being scum out of anyone. Why would I suddenly vote my partner out of nowhere? I don't get why you would think that.

I think I'm going to rule out Hu Tao/Naerys as a scum team. They could have ridden the Darth tunnel to victory quite easily.

So you're ruling out that Naerys and HT are mafia because they didn't vote Darth while thinking that Darth is scum?

How does that work? Found another nail in the coffin.

To be fair I wasn't here when he voted so if Naerys and I were scum, we wouldn't have been able to vote him