Open 904: DE Runs a Marathon Setup in the Open Queue [Completed]

[Ranger]

Catching up, could use a summary.

[Ranger]

I see usesPython is at e-1.

On the one hand, I would gladly sheep the names on them.

On the other, I'm not going to blind hammer, and what are the odds this is the same usesPython we just lost to?

[Ranger]

You're probably gonna find scum off wagon there

Define off-wagon. You mean these?

VC 1.18

Votecount 1.18

JacksonVirgo (3):

hellbooks, tris, usesPython

[E-2]

Not Voting (2):

JupiterXV

[Ranger]

{usesPython}
{Black}
{hellbooks}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{fireisredsir}

P1

[Ranger]

I see. From those names so far I'd vote any of them, as none are strongly town. (This comes with the disclaimer neither tris/Jupiter posted P1. We'll see.)

[Ranger]

{usesPython}
{Black}
{hellbooks}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{fireisredsir}
{JupiterXV}

P2

[Ranger]

{usesPython}
{Black}
{hellbooks}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{tris}
{fireisredsir}
{JupiterXV}

P3

[Ranger]

{hellbooks}
{usesPython}
{Black}
{fireisredsir}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{tris}
{JupiterXV}

P4

[Ranger]

{hellbooks}
{usesPython}
{fireisredsir}
{Black}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{Dannflor}
{tris}
{JupiterXV}

P5

[Ranger]

hello ranger

Hi! So far, at the risk of repeating history, I'm not feeling a D1 usesPython elimination.

[Ranger]

{hellbooks}
{fireisredsir}
{Black}
{usesPython}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{Dannflor}
{tris}
{JupiterXV}

P6

[Ranger]

what's the history

An early Scummies 2024 nomination.

[Ranger]

{hellbooks}
{fireisredsir}
{Black}
{usesPython}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{Dannflor}
{tris}
{JupiterXV}

P7

At the risk of

repeating

history, I'm not feeling Dannflor town.

[Ranger]

{hellbooks, fireisredsir}
{Black}
{usesPython}
{Dannflor}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{tris}
{JupiterXV}

P9


possible Dann-town

[Ranger]

{hellbooks, fireisredsir}
{Black}
{Dannflor}
{usesPython}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{tris}
{JupiterXV}

P10

[Ranger]

{hellbooks, fireisredsir}
{Black}
{Dannflor}
{usesPython}
{JupiterXV}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{tris}

P12

[Ranger]

have i played with you before?

Once, although you replaced out.

[Ranger]

{hellbooks, fireisredsir}
{Black}
{Dannflor}
{usesPython}
{JupiterXV}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{tris}

P12

ooh

For context, you didn't move down. Jupiter's posting there just seemed bold for scum. I'm still hesitant, especially if Dannflor's scum. (I'm townreading Dannflor's content, yet scared he's so high when he shouldn't be.) My reads are very fluid rn and I've a lot to read still.

The only reads I've virtually no doubts about are the top tier, every tier below adds doubt to the read. Roden's my null tier.

[Ranger]

{hellbooks, fireisredsir}
{usesPython}
{Black}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{Dannflor}
{JupiterXV}
{tris}

P13

[Ranger]

{hellbooks, fireisredsir}
{Black}
{Dannflor}
{JupiterXV}
{tris}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{usesPython}

P14

[Ranger]

{hellbooks, fireisredsir}
{Black}
{Dannflor}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{tris}
{JupiterXV}
{usesPython}

P15

[Ranger]

absolute rollercoaster

Alas, I know her. I'm going by vibes. I wish I had more time to think, I have to hipfire page by page.

[Ranger]

i don't really see anything there actually so im pretty interested in the reasoning when you get the chance @ranger (page 14 python)

Sudden worry of repeating history.

[Ranger]

UNVOTE: see yall tomorrow
what a day

Unvoting 10 hours before deadline's an interesting choice. Why?

[Ranger]

are we just committing to waking up early and figuring things out at the deadline or what

deadline got extended to 36 hours

Oh, that helps. Makes sense now.

My bad, missed it. Thought I only had 10 hours. Glad I have more wiggle room now. Still aiming to get caught up tonight though.

[Ranger]

{hellbooks, fireisredsir}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{JupiterXV}
{Dannflor}
{usesPython}
{tris}
{Black}

P16

[Ranger]

{hellbooks, fireisredsir}
{JupiterXV}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{Dannflor}
{usesPython}
{Black}
{tris}

P18

[Ranger]

{hellbooks, fireisredsir}
{JupiterXV}
{Dannflor}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{usesPython}
{Black}
{tris}

P19

[Ranger]

{hellbooks, fireisredsir}
{JupiterXV}
{usesPython}
{Dannflor}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{tris}
{Black}

P21

[Ranger]

{hellbooks, fireisredsir}
{JupiterXV}
{usesPython}
{Dannflor}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{Black}
{tris}

P23

[Ranger]

{hellbooks, fireisredsir}
{JupiterXV}
{usesPython}
{Dannflor}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{Black, tris}

P24

[Ranger]

{hellbooks, fireisredsir}
{JupiterXV}
{usesPython}
{Dannflor}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{Black, tris}

P25

For full disclosure, if not for my concerns of repeating history, usesPython would be in the Jupiter townread tier. That's minimal doubt, top reads are virtually-zero, below is some doubts.

[Ranger]

ranger not having me as strong town or strong scum yet is so dragon

dragon deez nuts

[Ranger]

ranger not having me as strong town or strong scum yet is so dragon

You keep going back and forth to me. Ultimately you're not who I'd push regardless of your alignment, yet I keep shifting. I'll say you're probably never going to top town or top scum for the exact same reason; fear.

[Ranger]

{hellbooks, fireisredsir}
{JupiterXV}
{usesPython, Dannflor}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{Black, tris}

P26

First tier is virtually zero doubts, second tier is minimal doubts, third tier is "would be second tier if not for justified paranoia", PC's null and Black/tris equally scum.

[Ranger]

{hellbooks, fireisredsir}
{JupiterXV}
{usesPython, Dannflor}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{Black, tris}

P30

VOTE: tris

[Ranger]

{hellbooks, fireisredsir}
{JupiterXV, usesPython, Dannflor}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{Black, tris}

P34

Think I'm comfortable doing this.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Dannflor
I don't believe his confidence in Jupiter is real.

Incidentally, I don't believe your confidence in Dannflor is real.

[Ranger]

to be honest black, if you're town, your play feels like a facsimile of your usual town play

My vibes exactly.

I feel this isn't the town-Black I previously saw, it's an imitation thereof.

{hellbooks, fireisredsir, JupiterXV, usesPython, Dannflor}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{Black, tris}

I'm feeling a bit bold, here.

[Ranger]

{hellbooks, fireisredsir, JupiterXV, usesPython, Dannflor}
{Political Clout, Black, tris}

P50

On the one hand, these reads feel really solid.
On the other, I should never have a perfect readslist with everyone town except three scum. I'm not that good.

[Ranger]

{hellbooks, JupiterXV, Dannflor}
{fireisredsir, usesPython}
{Political Clout, Black, tris}

P51

[Ranger]

{hellbooks, JupiterXV, Dannflor}
{fireisredsir, usesPython}
{Black}
{Political Clout, tris}

P53

[Ranger]

{hellbooks, JupiterXV}
{fireisredsir, usesPython, Dannflor}
{Black}
{Political Clout, tris}

P55

[Ranger]

{hellbooks}
{JupiterXV}
{fireisredsir, usesPython, Dannflor}
{Black}
{Political Clout, tris}

P56

[Ranger]

I think there's like at most 1 scum on the Python wagon here

My current guess is town-town wagons with an even one-scum spread: one on you, one on me, one off both:

VC 1.18

Votecount 1.18

JacksonVirgo (3):

hellbooks,

tris

, usesPython

[E-2]

usesPython (3):

fireisredsir,

Political Clout

, Dannflor

[E-2]

Not Voting (2):

JupiterXV,

Black

[Ranger]

is that because you scum read us, or something specific about the wagons?

Both.

I happen to know one of the wagons is on town and I believe both are.

In TvT wagons, scum are usually not going to be gathered exclusively on one. I townread all except you on the JV wagon; I don't think the Python wagon is very sus; I don't think Jupiter's particularly sus as Not Voting. So there's a very good chance it's 1-1-1.

[Ranger]

that doesn't make sense gamestate wise. If scum I would go for the easy lim instead of doing all this god forsaken work.

Your slot was an elimination candidate before you replaced in. By default, that requires doing "this godforsaken" work.

A part of my scumread on you is the feeling you're doing the bare minimum to shake off the scumread on your slot, rather than genuinely trying to solve.

also I would be more interested in your analysis of the vote count before we replaced in.

My thoughts are reflected in the readslists for the pages. If you have questions about them, you're free to ask.

[Ranger]

if it helps
I think there's a recent pattern in my scum vs. town games where I tend to start my town games pretty reserved specifically because I think that's the best way to form better reads (basically by pretending im more of a spectator)
And in my scum games I tend to start out more proactive because that's the best way to get thread cred
of course now that I have mentioned that and made it clear I'm aware of that meta difference it is possible I just manipulated that just for this game but yknow whatever

I agree with this characterization, including how your awareness of it means you're skilled enough to manipulate it.

[Ranger]

uhm im not exceptionally town reading Ranger's catch up

Fortunately, you don't need to townread me to work with me.

May I interest you in voting any of {Black, tris, Political Clout}?

[Ranger]

I'll say you're probably never going to top town or top scum for the exact same reason; fear.

I don't believe fear has ever stopped you forming a confident read on me before. What is different about my play this game?

Perhaps fear was the wrong word to use. Healthy caution/paranoia would perhaps be better. If you had spent all of D1 hard-tunneling a slot and being wrong in your last game which ended in a loss, does it not affect your next game with them?

I don't want to not learn; I also don't want to overcompensate. So there's a hesitation to make judgements I otherwise would be inclined to make.

[Ranger]

I'd also love an explanation of the hellbooks town read

I'll say I'm disinclined to effort into a townread which is at zero risk of being the elimination, although I know you're asking because you want to see my thought process more than to know why hellbooks would be town.

The basic explanation is I don't see a shred of scum in hellbooks' posting. I admit unfamiliarity with hellbooks as a player, yet her vibes have been consistently good. I've laughed at hellbooks' posts, and liked her contributions. She feels like she's not trying to be townread and is casually efforting. Consistently, she's been the slot to most provide the aura of not forcing anything and just existing.

[Ranger]

i need her to give an explanation so i can go oh that makes sense, of course you would scum read me

I felt you've been putting in the effort to look good, but put in only the bare minimum effort to avoid being suspected. You don't seem to have genuine effort to solve.

[Ranger]

Yeah I don't know how anyone is getting any reads out of Ranger's catch-up. Seems pretty standard to me

As there's now time, the easiest way to get a read is to engage the lists. Perhaps that will move the needle somewhat.

[Ranger]

you pulled at this very same logic in Friends and Enemies where you assumed where a bunch of people's reads were locked in at and made a show of being like "welp im dead i don't have the numbers"
that feels like a very... idk, incurious way to play the game

Have you considered scum are inclined to mimic their townplay and last game may have just been Python doing so?

[Ranger]

what are the odds this is the same usesPython we just lost to?

i thought you too logical for a statement like this

Perhaps you've lost sight of the context for that.

I had replaced in. I saw usesPython was at e-1, and believed there to be 11 hours left on the deadline clock. I saw the names on the wagon included you and Black. It also included fireisredsir and Political Clout. As far as names who if they're town are respectable scumhunters, it's hard to do better than that. Without having read anything, the decision was "do I blind hammer and sheep the names there and trust they caught usesPython who failed to evolve their scumplay, or do I read". I opted for the latter, from which I gained a fluctuating but still existing townread.

[Ranger]

I'm fine with a tris or ranger lim as well if people want to switch there. I had the most wonderful nap.

I know which of those two you're likely to vote.

[Ranger]

i thought that my unvote on ranger was su[pposed to be the load bearing thing that was calcifying the gamestate in despair but when i revoted nothing changed

Perhaps consider it's because scum don't care which of {usesPython, Ranger} get eliminated.

[Ranger]

python it just feels like you're having to twist and assume a lot of things about both town and scum behavior that don't really make sense to assume in order to justify your mindset as consistent

Though I agree, I tend to associate that behavior with town.

[Ranger]

We're getting pulled into counterproductive wordgames, Dann what's your read on tris

vaguely town read in that she doesn't especially appear to be trying to get town read

I disagree. I feel she's putting in enough effort to avoid suspicion yet isn't trying to solve.

[Ranger]

I can't really get a read on python's survivability because I've seen them do it as scum and as town. It doesn't feel good though
I don't mind a tris or Ranger vote

I'm fine with a tris or ranger lim as well if people want to switch there.

Color me skeptical both Black and Political Clout have the exact same statements.

[Ranger]

what would satisfy you what kind of post should I be making where does enough end for me when is it enough will it ever be enough?

That's the issue I have with you. You are focused on "what would satisfy". It feels like what you have done has been efforts to satisfy, rather than efforts to solve.

[Ranger]

{hellbooks, Dannflor}
{JupiterXV, usesPython}
{fireisredsir}
{Black}
{Political Clout, tris}

Current feelings, loosely.

[Ranger]

what would satisfy you what kind of post should I be making where does enough end for me when is it enough will it ever be enough?

That's the issue I have with you. You are focused on "what would satisfy". It feels like what you have done has been efforts to satisfy, rather than efforts to solve.

I think out of any player in this game. the person you are saying this is about is the person that it is least true for

How so?

[Ranger]

unless I'm reading it all wrong. you tell me.

You definitely did. Your play has felt like you are trying to satisfy, rather than truly identify scum.

In your engagement with me, you were focused on what would be enough for me, rather than trying to see if my thoughts were genuine or not. It feels like you already know the alignment of players and are making moves to position yourself favorably, rather than you actually putting the thought into solving.

[Ranger]

who do you think is scum python

pre replacements in JV/Roden/tris/jupiter
post replacements tris still stays in and we've been too busy trying to not die to analyze the newer posts

those are like all the weakest voices in the game

JV and Roden certainly qualify.

I wouldn't call the second and third highest postcount total players the weakest voices though. You and Jupiter are topping the postcount charts.

[Ranger]

i think they chose to notice strikingly creative things about the game and also were really quick to get in the weeds of like expressing reads and saying detailed stuff that could get pushback

The latter is what I would quantify as the bare minimum. Every player replacing in should be expressing reads which give feedback regardless of their alignment; PC doing so is no impressive feat.

Can you point me to the former, the "strikingly creative things"? I saw none when I read PoliticalClout's entrance.

[Ranger]

We would quite literally rather die here over ranger in necessary since that at least lets ranger snipe instead of us

I'm of a similar opinion. I'd prefer eliminating scum; if it

must

be town today and town tomorrow, I'm confident in my ability to snipe once two scum have flipped.

I'd rather not give up on a scum elimination though, so I'd prefer gathering to {tris, Black, Political Clout}.

[Ranger]

1334 and the python stuff and like trying to dissect the fire / dann relationship

1334 read to me as an attempt to pocket you. You were in no danger, yet he went out of his way to create a reason for townreading you. It looked highly performative to me. That was one of the posts which pinged me on Political Clout in the first place.

Can you give me where the python stuff and the fire/dann breakdown is?

[Ranger]

That's ridiculous

Perhaps so. I still think it town.

{hellbooks, Dannflor, usesPython}
{JupiterXV}
{fireisredsir}
{tris}
{Black, Political Clout}

This is probably more accurate thoughts now.

[Ranger]

Can you give me where the python stuff and the fire/dann breakdown is?

Per 1671;
For the Python breakdown, I felt it was an easy push to make, and the conclusion from it lacked conviction. The bare minimum.

I don't really see a fire/Dann breakdown.

[Ranger]

If you are town then you are 100% sure of your alignment. You can only be as high as 99% sure about Ranger's alignment. There's no world where you should volunteer to die instead of her

There is if you believe it's the best of a bad situation. If you feel the game will lead to two town eliminations, one after another, and they are locked to yourself and a townread, then the order of the mislims matters. I don't want to place the fate of the town in Python's hands. I'd

prefer

to eliminate scum yet if it

must

be dual mislims, I'd prefer to take the snipe shot myself after two scum flip.

I understand Python's view being the same. Python doesn't want to place the fate of the town in their hands. They'd

prefer

to eliminate scum yet if it

must

be dual mislims, they'd prefer me to take the snipe shot after two scum flip.

[Ranger]

feel free to prove it. point out which lines/ sentences lead you to that conclusion.

The context is from the gamestate and your previous posts on her. You had a weak initial scumread on her, and 1334 was a reversal thereof. Scumreading into townread with a case for why to townread is a classical pocketing method. hellbooks was in no danger of being eliminated. Pushing her wasn't ever going to go anywhere, and writing a case for why she's town wasn't going to make an impact on anyone. She was already seen as town with no momentum.

Yet you still made a case on her being town, despite there being no need for it. Altogether, given the prior weak push and the lack of reason, it reads as an attempt to get hellbooks to be pocketed by your efforts.

[Ranger]

From my experience with Ranger her read accuracy is atrocious so why do you have so much confidence in her?

Who was the player which almost figured out the scumteam thought impossible to figure out?

I got

very close

last game. Too little too late, yet it still was a danger. I believe in my abilities to land on scum when given two to look at.

[Ranger]

alright go ahead and prove it point out which sentences/statements lead you to that conclusion and why.

usesPython was an easy push to make because there was an easy way to win over the crowd. Dannflor for instance was looking unfavorably upon them for their Jupiter stance in this timeframe. There was a lot of interest in usesPython, and anyone reading the game from their replace-in could see usesPython as a viable push to make.

The lack of conviction, you asking this isn't a real question. It's in literally every sentence in the post. I do mean,

every

sentence, a lack of conviction. You're asking me to quote every sentence you wrote there. I'll simplify by showing the end;

overall I don't think I like pythons slot for town.

[Ranger]

it seems a strange assumption to make that we're just going to steam ahead without reevaluating after missing D1

Is it?

Scum get a kill N1. They kill the player most likely to reevaluate and leave the players least likely to alive. On D2 there's four town to three scum. Theoretically, they only need

one

townie who won't reevalute to make the double-mislim happen. (Yes, they're not likely to actually pile on and hammer; you should still get where I'm coming from.)

You

would reevalute; guess who scum are likely to nightkill?

[Ranger]

this is all just post hoc analysis.

My knowledged of terms has rusted; refresh me on what this means?

[Ranger]

does that mean fire is red sir was pocketting me

My knowledge of terms has rusted so I don't remember the name of this fallacy but you know very well you're using a fallacy here.

[Ranger]

you're doing the bare minimum here ergo you are scum.

My memory of terms has rusted so I don't remember the name of this fallacy yet you know darn well you're using a fallacy here.

[Ranger]

zzz

Perhaps you'd care to weigh in on my responses to you, on trist, on Political Clout, or on Black?

[Ranger]

hermph, so i disagree with some of the ways ranger is arguing. funilly thou, i think her scum read on me makes a lot of sense. but, alao its probably not a hard scumread to conjure up if she's scum. but, also i feel as if there are probably disconnects in how we look at the game as players in general

It's certainly possible.

You're the scumread I've the least confidence in. 1704 does give me pause.

VOTE: Black

[Ranger]

you already decided I was scum when making the analysis and are doing it through that lens.

I see. In that case, your accusation is nonsense as my play speaks for itself. My reads have been in a constant state of flux, and have constantly been shifting. When I was first reading through the game, I felt the posts hellbooks referred me to were suspect. To see the very posts which contributed to that read be used as reason for townreading you warranted explaining why I found them suspect when reading.

[Ranger]

does that mean fire is red sir was pocketting me

My knowledge of terms has rusted so I don't remember the name of this fallacy but you know very well you're using a fallacy here.

huh?

I don't remember the specifics. You're equating one player doing one action to a different player doing a vaguely similar action, falsely comparing two entirely different situations as if they are the same.

[Ranger]

I did. And it makes me think Ranger might be town

Yet your vote remains.

[Ranger]

{usesPython}
{Dannflor}
{hellbooks}
{JupiterXV, fireisredsir, tris}
{Black, Political Clout}

[Ranger]

I did. And it makes me think Ranger might be town

Yet your vote remains.

Can I take two seconds to think about things

Usually the response to think about things is to remove your vote from the player who is at e-1.

[Ranger]

I did. And it makes me think Ranger might be town

Yet your vote remains.

Can I take two seconds to think about things

Usually the response to think about things is to remove your vote from the player who is at e-1.

Particularly when you think the player at e-1 who you're voting may be town.

Leaving them at e-1 is a good way for the player in question to be hammered and you to say "see? see? I was reevaluating!" without the accountability of having failed to unvote them.

[Ranger]

I'm gonna take another look at this when I get off work

I'm skeptical, although I admit to being of two minds. Part of me believes this is performative, part of me is wondering if it has no reason to be and is sincere.

VOTE: Political Clout

[Ranger]

{usesPython}
{Dannflor}
{hellbooks}
{JupiterXV, fireisredsir, tris}
{Black}
{Political Clout}

[Ranger]

ranger what's been causing your jupiter read to change

Same as yours; natural decay. When I'm reevaluating everyone and especially begin to doubt scumreads, it calls into question townreads I've grown stale on.

[Ranger]

my jupiter read hasn't changed recently

My read on you has.

[Ranger]

If I assume a world where Ranger is town then some of my python worries go away. I would rather go tris I think

Would you care to enlighten me on where the idea of Ranger-Python being paired comes from?

I've been in the game for a shorter amount of time than the scumreads on both slots. To be sure, once I entered I defended Python and Python defended me; your suspicion on both slots predates this and prior to my entrance that interaction could not have factored in.

Consider me skeptical of you tying us together for actions after I replaced in while having scumread Python prior to then.

[Ranger]

can you walk me through why you are assuming ranger is town

It's easy to assume town are so when mafia. :P

[Ranger]

i have a bunch of completely useless posts i keep wanting to make. of the kind that probably gave ranger the impression that i was trying to seem town more than actual solving

Well it'd potentially move the needle.

Right now your posts are highly ambivalent. I see both town and scum in them and am struggling to form a definitive read.

[Ranger]

idk i currently feel that the most likely world is that ranger and python are just two scum
which also feels entirely too easy to me but it still feels better than alternatives

If it feels too easy it usually is.

Alternatives are usually correct no matter the imperfections or inconvenience.

[Ranger]

{usesPython}
{Dannflor}
{hellbooks}
{JupiterXV, fireisredsir, tris}
{Black}
{Political Clout}

I loosely think this still holds.

I'm suspicious of Political Clout.
I lean scum on Black.

All of {Jupiter, fire, tris} look overall town to me, yet also have moments where they look like they may be scum. One or two bad posts each then a sea of better ones. I think one of them is the third scum; I don't know which.

My hellbooks townread is stale, yet still feels accurate.

Dannflor I get occasional concerns of "this feels wrong", yet when I remove the bias of my perspective I believe him from his.

usesPython feels town and the only reason I have to doubt them is my past failure.

[Ranger]

if i decide i don't wanna go back to ranger, what are my alternatives. clearly fireisredsir is not an option even if i wanted to go there right now. usesPython and Political Clout i guess?

why is fire not an option?

Jupiter's going up with 1808, we're willing to flashwagon tris/PC with the deadline being what it is

I'm voting Political Clout, you can join me there.
I'll also vote Black, although she could be town.
I was going to say "if need be, I'd begrudgingly compromise on any of {Jupiter, fireisredsir, tris}", yet when I went to type it, I got told "no, that's wrong, it's only fire/tris".

So I suppose Jupiter is the towniest of the three.

I wouldn't be happy voting either fire or tris but if need be I will.

{usesPython}
{Dannflor}
{hellbooks}
{JupiterXV}
{fireisredsir, tris}
{Black}
{Political Clout}

[Ranger]

if i decide i don't wanna go back to ranger, what are my alternatives. clearly fireisredsir is not an option even if i wanted to go there right now. usesPython and Political Clout i guess?

You can join me on Political Clout.
I'll back you on fireisredsir if need be; I'd vastly prefer PC, or if not, Black.

[Ranger]

I find the resurgence of the usesPython wagon in response to my attempt at Political Clout extremely suspect.

VOTE: Political Clout

[Ranger]

speaking of tragic things python was not the proper lim candidate

Agreed, and I find that wagon rather suspect.

I'm primarily looking at {Political Clout, Black, tris}.

[Ranger]

um we probably should be careful with e-2

I see no reason to.

[Ranger]

i feel like there's a lot to look through from how the wagons evolved yesterday and it's ideal to take our time here

That's fair.

However I believe there's nothing lost by also voting.

Looking how wagons evolved yesterday and taking time isn't mutually exclusive with l-2.

[Ranger]

??

It's false bravado.

[Ranger]

unvote please?

Can we agree this spews PC scum?

[Ranger]

the scum who hammers can just take themself out of the game

And would leave us at 4:1, game continuing as normal.

I'll take those odds.

[Ranger]

no im talking about if pc is town

Political Clout selfvoted for false bravado. Not exactly the actions of a town player.

[Ranger]

UNVOTE:
If I get to 3 I'll hammer

As I said.

False bravado.

A move to look good without actually being town.

[Ranger]

all voting does here is give the mafia the opportunity to hammer if they find it advantageous assuming political clout is town. now, maybe you're so sure they're not, but i feel like we should allow some discussion first

If Political Clout were town, and if the scum were foolish enough to hammer him, it would be their mistake.

There's nothing preventing discussion from happening while also voting.

[Ranger]

ok its actually very hard for me to see a world where PC does that as town rather than as scum trying to scare people off

^This

[Ranger]

this doesn't make sense to me, how does self voting accomplish this? do they think people will townread the self voting?

That's the definition of false bravado, yes.

An attempt at bravado to instill doubt in town players who would think "no scum would do this".

Yet false, because it was an act.

[Ranger]

The Gambit only realistically works if I'm third on my wagon imo.

Like you were?

It's nice to confirm you're admitting to the false bravado gambit. You're right, it only works on the third vote.

[Ranger]

V/LA, lost power(+internet)

Received

- Dragon

[Ranger]

rly cant come up with a good theory that doesnt have ranger as scum
i invite you people to try
Or if poli is scum...

Some scenarios answer themselves.

[Ranger]

Still V/LA, no time to fully catch up rn, will tomorrow in about 30-36 hours from now.

[Ranger]

id be okay with ranger being the sassy if shes town

sassy? I prefer calling it snark. :P

You'll be sure to get plenty.

[Ranger]

now i remember why i didn't like hellbooks

everyone at the party after i open my mouth

Join the club.

It’s me for people with prolonged exposure to me.

[Ranger]

well, uh. the votes going on probably limit the reasonable scum teams here

Precisely why we shouldn’t fear voting.

We still need to assess D1, reread it.

That’s not mutually exclusive with voting.

[Ranger]

can it be confidently said there is scum in either pc or ranger?

Outside of pointless theoreticals for the point of being pointlessly theoretical, I don’t see how there couldn’t be.

[Ranger]

im literally back to square 0 everyones scummyu to me this actually sucks

I empathize.

I can see any combination of players as scum with Political Clout.

I still loosely think it’s PC + Black + a third; it could be just about anyone for the third. Even Black is just bad vibes from her end of yesterday + her absence today, and an educated guess.

[Ranger]

guys whats ur limpool looking like rn

{Political Clout}.

From my perspective, Political Clout is confscum.

As such, any non-PC lim would be reduced odds of hitting scum, whereas Political Clout is effectively guaranteed.

[Ranger]

the problem with ranger assassin is no offense to ranger but i think her style of play makes her reads pretty easy for scum to play around if they want to not get shot here

It certainly wouldn’t be my preference, as PC would leave presumably with Black, although any town eliminating me despite my accuracy on 2/3 scum will get what they paid for. I am

fairly

confident I could nail the third scum.

However, Political Clout is guaranteed, so I prefer not needing to try.

[Ranger]

this game makes my head hurt

When you get truly jaded, that'll be every game.

You’re halfway there.

[Ranger]

i just wanted to say im glad we have other players here otherwise hellbooks tris fire and i would probably be holding hands and skippimg about in the daisies

That’s honestly the likely playerbase after a PC lim.
PC and Black are removed, I get night killed, and you’re left with the final scum in the remainder who could be any of you.

[Ranger]

if i try stacking that up with hellbooks town

and pc town

that leaves a mafia team of {fire, ranger, black}. this brings me back to wondering why fire doesn't hammer pc earlier

There’s your answer.

[Ranger]

yea i kinda feel like people giving teamsolves rn should be taken with a large grain of salt

{Political Clout, Black, tris}
{Political Clout, Black, hellbooks}
{Political Clout, Black, fireisredsir}
{Political Clout, Black, JupiterXV}
{Political Clout, tris, hellbooks}
{Political Clout, tris, fireisredsir}
{Political Clout, tris, JupiterXV}
{Political Clout, hellbooks, fireisredsir}

That enough salt for you?

Or do we need more for the postgame?

[Ranger]

Life took an unexpected turn

I truly wish the best for you Black. <3

[Ranger]

I'm fine with limming anyone and pressing on the gas right now then.

Why does it seem like you're in a rush

Which alignment usually does near endgame?

[Ranger]

me when the team is tris hellbooks n pc

It's possible. hellbooks has saved Political Clout and twice counterwagoned.

[Ranger]

I would vote fire. Unless there's something in my catch-up that would change that

I would vote Black, unless there's something in her catch-up that would change that.

[Ranger]

hellbooks means assassin they shortened it to "sassy"

I'm aware.

My comment was in regards to selecting me as assassin. Instead of sass there'd be snark.

[Ranger]

is this what they call a towny mindmeld

Depends, do you get snarky when wagoned?

If so, then yes.

[Ranger]

ok can people drop their trs and explain why because were seeing a lot of"_ is town" but not any whys

usesPython is town because of vibes including but not limited to their flip.
Dannflor is town because he was posting solidly on D1 and N1 actions indicate he's town.

Beyond that, I have none. Maybe Ranger, because she replaced into a town slot.

Loosely, if I were to rank least scum to most, it'd be

{JupiterXV}
{fireisredsir}
{tris}
{hellbooks}
{Black}
{Political Clout}

However all slots except PC keep changing rapidly.

[Ranger]

as if moses himself parted the seas to give us this nugget of truth
jupiter, black, ranger.

Black is like the scum Moses, parting the green sea. With her red path dividing the town.

I'd bet Jupiter and Ranger as both town there.

[Ranger]

good evening

Would you like to consider asking Political Clout to put his money where his mouth is and placing him to L-1 then watching him not selfhammer as promised?

[Ranger]

ok can people drop their trs and explain why because were seeing a lot of"_ is town" but not any whys

hellbooks is town because i keep seeing posts and think ing wow she's town

Not a reason I'd use in lylo.

[Ranger]

i fear that if i reread i will be townreading fire again

Perhaps.

[Ranger]

good evening

Would you like to consider asking Political Clout to put his money where his mouth is and placing him to L-1 then watching him not selfhammer as promised?

why should i

It's usually favorable to prove scum were lying.

[Ranger]

i have no i dea how to read anyone in any way

Perhaps by reading and forming opinions on what you have read.

[Ranger]

didnt i just give an opinion on stuff i have read from the user hellbooks?

I suppose.

It not factoring in the rest of the game isn't the best idea.

[Ranger]

Sorry if this is wrong but I won't have time to really do much until Friday night and I feel like I need to do something

Attempting to end the day with a fire elimination when there’s plenty of time on the deadline clock is certainly doing something.

I wouldn’t call it protown.

[Ranger]

literally how do we lim scum here

By eliminating one of the three players showing defeatism.

[Ranger]

literally how do we lim scum here

By eliminating one of the three players showing defeatism.

Why would scum feel defeated atm?

Nobody would be, that's the reason why eliminating the players displaying defeatism hits scum: they're faking it when there's no reason to.

This setup is an uphill battle for scum.

So, showing defeatism when

allegedly

town is fake, because there should be no reason to feel defeated in a setup we have a good shot of winning if town.

[Ranger]

So if my gut reads on this page are correct (BIG IF) then that means the 3 scum are tris, hellbooks, and Ranger

Interesting solve, considering that'd mean two scum off of a wagon on town.

[Ranger]

So if my gut reads on this page are correct (BIG IF) then that means the 3 scum are tris, hellbooks, and Ranger

Interesting solve, considering that'd mean two scum off of a wagon on town.

And? You act like that's unheard of

With 3 scum in lylo?

It would mean all votes but mine were town.

I somewhat doubt that.

[Ranger]

I'm curious how you interpreted my posts as "defeatism" when really I've just been anxious about being behind

Your rush suggests otherwise.

[Ranger]

i think its especially fitting because of PC entering the thread initially apparently not knowing that he replaced roden

A move which bit back Rodentially, I'm sure.

[Ranger]

It's weird that you're dismissing the possibility that my rushed content is based on my anxiety about not being here the past several days

Your play suggests otherwise.

[Ranger]

fellas it might be ranger here :thumbsup:

I'm pretty sure it's Black regardless.

If PC is town, Black knew PC was flipping town, and started acting like PC would despite the lack of reason to believe it.

If PC is scum, then Black's PC's scum partner, trying to get towncred.

I believe the latter more likely.

If we have time, I'll type out the partner(s) for both scenarios.

[Ranger]

PC scum, I believe it's {PC, Black, hellbooks}.

PC town, it'd be {Black, fireisredsir} and then one of {JupiterXV, hellbooks}, not sure which.

In either case, Black's scum regardless.

[Ranger]

Kill Ranger please
I don't even really care if it loses us the game

This is highly performative.

Black is acting as if PC is town despite having no reason to. Black literally voted Political Clout. Not an action backed by her words.

[Ranger]

Your reads are consistently terrible

Not when it comes to you, apparently.

[Ranger]

Ranger if you are town then you have a major issue where you get this feeling that someone is scum and you continuously work backwards to justify that. You shape and reshape everything to fit this world view. Everything you read from them is through a red lens. It's really bad

That has never been how I've operated.

It is how you painted my reads last time you were scum though.

[Ranger]

Nah, I'm included. You can't read me at all. You only read me correctly in the last game because you were wrong about 4-5 other people before me and finally got it right

You and I have very different memories of that game considering I spent all of D1 with you as my number two scumread.

It was only trusting Dannflor which caused me to reevaluate my otherwise-correct read.

[Ranger]

It is. It's very apparent

The fluidity in my reads says otherwise.

[Ranger]

That doesn't mean you're good at reading me

Right for the wrong reasons is still right.

I was the first player to suspect your wagon was a deliberately failed effort on usesPython's part, and I thought your play lackluster throughout the game with the only reasons not pursuing being the D1 push on you and sheeping the masons.

The moment I stopped sheeping the masons I put a critical eye towards your clearing factor and saw your lackluster play for what it was.

[Ranger]

You are fluid until you are tunneled, and then you are stuck

I admit when my own life is in the equation as an alternative, survivalism can tilt me into not reevaluating to a sufficient degree.

I still demonstrably do plenty.

If I didn't, I wouldn't have gotten close to StD as the third. He was a slot I was solidly town on, and I reevaluted into nearly catching him.

[Ranger]

I admit when my own life is in the equation as an alternative, survivalism can tilt me into not reevaluating to a sufficient degree.

For clarity, whenever I am pushed I am incentivized to push in a way where I make it harder to eliminate me. I know an elimination on town will always be worse than eliminating scum, and as the slot I know to be town, I'm obliged to fight for any elimination with a higher chance to flip scum.

This means I lean into the biases of others. I need to demonstrate their bias against me wrong, while demonstrating their biases against others may be right. The result is less variability than I otherwise would give.

When minimally suspect, my reads change comparably more.

[Ranger]

I feel Black has accomplished her goal of straying further from the reasons she's scum. Apologies for taking the bait.

Black has once again accomplished her scuMoses feat of parting the green sea.

[Ranger]

But also I'm gonma give the scum until this evening (let's say 8 PM in UTC time) for redactions.

Why edit a masterpiece?

Release the perfection as-is.

[Ranger]

i was going a bit insane in there yeah

Loneliness breeds insanity in everyone.

[Ranger]

dann your read accuracy is insane and you're so fucking good at scumhunting. holds microphoen up to your face. how do you do it

A good sense for how players think. It's a skill I'm beginning to learn, yet to master.

[Ranger]

wondering again what would have happened if i hammered at start of d2 when i had the chance

Since people got to talk, likely the same.

The same talks Black, Jupiter, and tris had which led them to overall finger hellbooks would've still happened, the results ending up identically.

I actually thought the later D2 content made hellbooks less likely to be chosen, it didn't matter in the end. :(

[Ranger]

I don't think town would land on the correct solve every time. We still had to put in the work and make an educated guess

I wasn't referring to the setup, I was referring to this game and that situation. Had fire immediately hammered, I think the result would be the same. We'd still need {Ranger, fireisredsir} removed, you would still land on hellbooks, Jupiter would as well, and Political Clout would revisit the "Black or hellbooks" and still shoot correctly.

That the town collectively went from zero sus on hellbooks to max sus despite hellbooks having good interactions we thought were antipartnery was something which blindsided us.

[Ranger]

Still haven't gotten the chance to read the infamous Scum PT but I'll do that later

It's definitely a lot.

[Ranger]

2950

[Ranger]

Maybe I'll run it as a marathon but with talking and then decide.

DE runs a marathon setup in the open queue as a marathon.

[Ranger]

Ranger/Black/Dannflor/Jupiter/PC/hellbooks don't really play marathons AFAIK.

I play marathons, but only when I've the time. I usually don't. :(