Mini Normal 2329: complex. [game over!]

[Random Nurse]

K, so, I'm so gonna die Night 3.

I thought there were roles that can protect you?

I don't know about that.

My full role was Bulletproof IC but I had a creeping feeling Scum would have an out to it, so I only revealed the IC part up until now.

[Random Nurse]

I do think one of the Vigs targeted me though. Night 1? Can't remember off the top of my head.

[Random Nurse]

I do think one of the Vigs targeted me though. Night 1? Can't remember off the top of my head.

What I meant to say is perhaps Scum targeted me and the Vig killed the other one.

[Random Nurse]

I do think one of the Vigs targeted me though. Night 1? Can't remember off the top of my head.

What I meant to say is perhaps Scum targeted me and the Vig killed the other one.

That’s right, isn’t that the night Titus claimed to blocking someone?

Night 1 I believe.

[Random Nurse]

I don't know what type of Vig.

[Random Nurse]

I don't think scum shot at you I think they shot Klick because I refuse to believe a vig could possibly shoot Klick.

You never know based on the player.

[Random Nurse]

I see no incentive for mafia to kill RN

I know you think I'm bad Town and it would be smart for Scum to leave me alive, but that's really just your opinion and realistically Scum wouldn't want an IC surviving late-game whatsoever.

They just haven't been able to kill me yet. They didn't know I was BP Night 1. It's highly possible they tried to kill me Night 1 but failed.

[Random Nurse]

They just haven't been able to kill me yet. They didn't know I was BP Night 1. It's highly possible they tried to kill me Night 1 but failed.

they literally had a bulletproof immune goon so they can infer from that information that you might be bulletproof

They can infer that anyone could be BP.

[Random Nurse]

It's possible they shot at and failed to kill me N1, so shot elsewhere N2.

[Random Nurse]

I'm thinking the Vig should claim.

[Random Nurse]

ok lets say they did that

lets say a vig shot klick and they failed to kill you on night one

how does that change anything about the game

Well, you could look at past player interactions and perhaps draw conclusions. You may not think it's important but it can very well be. It can also be useful for future Days as well.

[Random Nurse]

Also if we deduce that Scum tried to kill me N1 and a Vig shot Klick, that means the Vig had at least two shots, maybe more.

Vig should speak up now. Scum will then have to decide on whether to kill me or Vig tonight. Vig could also explain their kill targets.

[Random Nurse]

And if Vig claims now and someone CCs, we can have a better chance of killing Scum now rather than dealing with it end-game.

[Random Nurse]

no i dont think vig speaks up "now". i think a well-considered massclaim sequence has some chance of achieving better results.

What sequence do you propose?

[Random Nurse]

I'd prefer to have this data now rather than have my hands tied.

[Random Nurse]

Sorry, was playing magic last night and then sleeping.

*slides over chair*

You play Magic? I'm thinking about getting into it, maybe a mix of Blue and Green. It's been forever since I last played Magic. I hate that the sets rotate out and you can never use those cards again.

[Random Nurse]

Sorry, was playing magic last night and then sleeping.

*slides over chair*

You play Magic? I'm thinking about getting into it, maybe a mix of Blue and Green. It's been forever since I last played Magic. I hate that the sets rotate out and you can never use those cards again.

I only Draft, but I am 95% sure Commander is the format for you. Go Google up Commander pre cons (there are a bunch of Fallout themed ones being released this week for example) which are basically 100 card starter decks which are aimed to be played with 3 friends in huge games, but you get to tinker with the deck over time swapping in cards to personalise things for you. Your worries over rotation don't really exist in Commander.

I will definitely look into that. Thank you.

[Random Nurse]

no gating or anything?

Are people wanting that info?

oh my god yes

I'm 1 shot.
I haven't used it yet

Oh?

Unless the Vig claims you could use it on the IC tonight.

[Random Nurse]

no gating or anything?

Are people wanting that info?

oh my god yes

I'm 1 shot.
I haven't used it yet

Oh?

Unless the Vig claims you could use it on the IC tonight.

Doesn't announcing my target kinda defeat the point of it?
I was not going to use it night 1, and last night I didn't really have much thought to use it, I didn't think I would likely dave anyone useful.

Not really, considering if you don't use it on me N3 I'm certainly dead.

[Random Nurse]

that said, i am the vig

I was about to claim vig lmao. it seems we can't mind meld.

Why were you about to claim Vig?

[Random Nurse]

So we have no doubleclaims then right? My info is about just one player.

Who is the specific player?

PC

Darn. Okay. Out it. What is it?

I found out PC’s alignment. I only got information night 2 though.

Any guesses? lol

Is this serious?

[Random Nurse]

Ooh this is getting exciting.

[Random Nurse]

I'm a gunsmith. My n1 result was that PC has no gun. I softed it pretty obviously over and over again.

Did you Gunsmith Night 2?

[Random Nurse]

Where are we at with all the claims?

[Random Nurse]

so shameful. i should've claimed vt. ok n2 result

No result for n2

...

So are we thinking like a Roleblocker or something like it?

[Random Nurse]

omg are we going to have to go in another circle where we claim all the other details of our roles

Apparently so.

[Random Nurse]

Pretty much. But I'm likely dying tonight

You think you'll die before a confirmed IC?

[Random Nurse]

ohh nas is bulletproof-

immune

. that just means he ignores bulletproofs when he NKs, right?

There's no way in hell all 3 Scum don't have that modifier.

[Random Nurse]

I was gonna ask that. I thought that meant he couldn't be vigged after n3? Confused.

No, my Bulletproof modifier will not work on him on N3. He becomes immune to it.

[Random Nurse]

V/LA this weekend.

[Random Nurse]

I'll still be skimming the thread.

[Random Nurse]

We still have 5 days.

Summarize why I should be voting geraintm.

[Random Nurse]

...

What was your claim again, PC?

[Random Nurse]

PC is a VT

Hu Tao changed her claim from VT to Night One Gunsmith with an inno on PC
Kay claimed she's a night two informed townie who is informed that PC is aligned with the town.

since there's two players confirming PC as town and only two mafia left PC is basically conf-town

PC is a VT

Hu Tao changed her claim from VT to Night One Gunsmith with an inno on PC
Kay claimed she's a night two informed townie who is informed that PC is aligned with the town.

since there's two players confirming PC as town and only two mafia left PC is basically conf-town

Only way he can be scum is if he's scum doctor or traitor with Kay. But that's very doubtful imo

...

...

...so...

...a Night 2 Informed player that is informed someone else is Town, a Gunsmith, AND a BP IC?

Feels like a tad bit too much Town power. I struggle to believe all of this is true, plus whatever other claims there are.

I doubt both Kay and Hu are lying, right? Is there any chance both could be Scum? If PC is Scum Doctor it's plausible one of the other two is lying, yeah? Did we have a Vig this game? If so a Scum Doctor is not put of the question.

Titus I think could be Scum, based on the claims so far. A Scum Doctor and Scum Roleblocker is possible, I think?

Is it safe to assume PC is cleared or no? Do we have any other clears so far?

[Random Nurse]

Who do you think should be eliminated today, Psyche?

[Random Nurse]

What if we launch Kay?

[Random Nurse]

I don't see how a roleblocker fits in with all of this. I Lind of feel maybe Titus is Scum and tried to give a convincing fake claim. Maybe launch her instead of gera today? If not why launch gera first?

[Random Nurse]

I don't think Aristeia is Scum.

Psyche hasn't been pinging my Scumdar, and has been front-in-center quite a bit. Makes me think Town. If Scum congrats, you're fooling me.

Dead thread may be yelling at me over that bit.

[Random Nurse]

How possible is it that PC could be Scum?

10%?

[Random Nurse]

psyche is conftown because hes the vigilante and vigilantes cant be mafia in normals

How exactly do we know Psyche isn't Scum claiming to be a Vig?

[Random Nurse]

psyche is conftown because hes the vigilante and vigilantes cant be mafia in normals

How exactly do we know Psyche isn't Scum claiming to be a Vig?

we know there has to be a vigilante because there were two deaths at night

we did a mass claim and nobody else has claimed vigilante

Fine.

I would be amazed and angered if the real Vig didn't CC Day 3.

[Random Nurse]

So, not me, not Psyche, not PC?

Anyone else off the table?

I don't think it's Aristeia.

So who's left?

Gera, Titus, Kay, Hu Tao?

Who else?

[Random Nurse]

I'm inclined to vote Gera.

[Random Nurse]

Let's launch gera.

Psyche, are you open to Vig'ing Titus? If not who? If you get roleblocked are you going to suspect Titus?

[Random Nurse]

How possible is it that PC could be Scum?

10%?

I trust you all to know about the ins and outs of this but is there literally any possible way I’m given a “PC is aligned with the town” if he’s not actually town? I assumed it was a 100% confirmation.

This assumes you're not lying.

It is very well possible Scum could have that Informed modifier, and that PC could still be Town.

Or you're both Scum.

[Random Nurse]

No vig Titus.

[Random Nurse]

also vig + gunsmith + informed townie + bulletproof ic that cant be killed until n3 is way too many clears for a 13p normal

like this setup makes absolutely zero sense on balance.

That's what I'm thinking.

With a BP IC I find it tough to believe there's an Informed townies that clears another player.

[Random Nurse]

Was NAS distancing anyone early game?

[Random Nurse]

Was NAS distancing anyone early game?

huuuuuu taaaaaaaoooooo

Psyche, what're your thoughts on this?

[Random Nurse]

VOTE: Gera

[Random Nurse]

I wonder if Gera would self-vote...

[Random Nurse]

Well, Gera's dead.

[Random Nurse]

If gera flips Scum are you still vigging Titus?

[Random Nurse]

The plot thickens.

[Random Nurse]

Could it be Psyche?

[Random Nurse]

I don't know.

[Random Nurse]

Only way Kay can be scum is if PC is traitor and she is scum. But idk balance stuff

I don't see 3 Scum + Traitin a 13.

Not unless there was substantial Town power.

[Random Nurse]

I'm unconvinced it's Aristeia.

Either Kay or Hu.

Thinking it's Kay. I just dealt with Scum Hu in a game that just finished.

[Random Nurse]

I don't think I'm voting Ari today.

[Random Nurse]

VOTE: Ari

Okay PC stop scumsiding. Why are you not considering Ari

Gunsmith plus informed don't make sense to me.

Wait, Hu was the one that claimed Gunsmith or no?

[Random Nurse]

I don't know if Gunsmith makes sense for Town, if Kay's Informed Town, I'm an IC, and Titus is a Roleblocker.

There's WAY too much Town power in a 13.

[Random Nurse]

AND a fucking Neapolitan!

[Random Nurse]

This game may actually give me a stroke. I'm incredulous right now laughing through the pain

I can be convinced to vote ari maybe.

Please don't.

I don't buy all this Town power.

I smell a rat.

[Random Nurse]

It's either Kay or Hu.

[Random Nurse]

Aristeia what was your claim again?

[Random Nurse]

AND a fucking Neapolitan!

There is no neapolitan. PLEASE READ PAGE 1

OH. FUCK.Wrong game!

[Random Nurse]

Still, way too much Town power.

No way Scum's not in one of the claims.

[Random Nurse]

I have to actively argue that no we must not launch Ari despite the idea being very satisfying.

It's either Kay or Hu. We already won.

[Random Nurse]

I am a n1 gunsmith. Which is why I said that n2 informed townie makes sense

How so?

[Random Nurse]

I think we just need to decide on either Kay or Hu today. Then launch the other.

VOTE: Kay

[Random Nurse]

I think we just need to decide on either Kay or Hu today. Then launch the other.

VOTE: Kay

well let's wait for psyche he might have another shot and we can plan around this. plus titus said they would roleblock kay that's why no night kill I assume. how does hu ignore all that. plus they are hard defending kay for an epic i told you so tomorrow. we should just wait a little.

I've literally said since yesterday that Ari and Gera were the 2 scum.

How do you 1. reconcile the fact that titus roleblocked kay
and 2. that their was no nk when there are 3 clears.

Are we certain Titus blocked Kay?

[Random Nurse]

Hm.

Informed Mafia is just regular Mafia in that sense. Scum Kay would already know if PC was Town.

I don't know.

I suspect one of the PR claims.

[Random Nurse]

Maybe it's Hu.

[Random Nurse]

If Aristeia is Scum she's very convincing as a flustered Townie.

[Random Nurse]

I'm really surprised it's not obv at this point that Ari is town

Just to confirm you shot Titus?

[Random Nurse]

Psyche do you have any more shots left?

I imagine not.

[Random Nurse]

i'll walk through some scenarios in a bit

Hey.

[Random Nurse]

*sigh*

ITT Psyche ignores my questions.

[Random Nurse]

gimme a bit RN!

ROOAAOAOOOARRRR!!!

[Random Nurse]

the mafia killed dannflor n2 probably because they thought he was a pr.

the only reason for them to think this is because he instantly believed titus's roleclaim - which suggests he knew he was blocked.

so for that to be true; titus has to be a roleblocker of some kind

if titus is a mafia roleblocker and you say you're going to shoot her, she can just block you and shoot you.

if titus is a town roleblocker, she wont block you and your shot will go through.

so if you shoot at titus the only world where she dies is if she is town.

Who knew he was blocked? Titus or Dannflor?

[Random Nurse]

ok. i think your reasoning, if true, should just imply to me that game ends today despite my reservations about ari. i shouldn't think too much about D5 if i accept it.

now, how confident are you that hutao and kay can't both be town in this setup? bet the game on it confident?

I'm about 90% confident they're not both Town.

[Random Nurse]

Do we have anything inconsistent on Ari currently?

As is her non-stop screaming "I AM TOWN!" is so convincing.

[Random Nurse]

Starting ti feel thus is Scum Tao.

Scum Tao desperately tries to get players to vote others, just like in the Bird Species game.

[Random Nurse]

Starting ti feel thus is Scum Tao.

Scum Tao desperately tries to get players to vote others, just like in the Bird Species game.

I think she was a lot more passionate in this game than the Bird Species game and maybe thats one of the reasons I was just wrong about her for most of today since she really seems to want to win this one.

She could "really want to win this one" as the last Scum, too.

[Random Nurse]

I wonder what kind of heat Scum's packing this game.

I'm surprised there's an IC in this game, so Scum is probably packing heat?

VOTE: KeyLaga

Afrayed Knott

Random Nurse

,

Mafia Goon

, executed Day 3

VOTE: Random Nurse

Cook him, bestie!

VOTE: Random Nurse

VOTE: random nurse

Because it will be funny as fuck to do it twice in a row!

like why can't this be gera+hu tao deciding to go full openwolf all in on an RN lim on page 3?

Because they knew Dann was wrong (and Dannflor, yes, you WERE wrong), so they jumped onto that bad wagon.

[Random Nurse]

well RN was legit scummy then. but idk

Bullshit.

All I asked was what heat Scum was packing.

[Random Nurse]

Look at Hu Tao go, desperate to get an Aristeia mis-yeet.

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Random Nurse]

RN has read like 5% of the game and is pushing on me for feels. And he does this every game when I'm town. So yeah. This is a loss the moment RN was the clear.

You were literally Scum in most of the last games I've played.

You are very good as Scum and that is why I have trust issues with you.

[Random Nurse]

I'm not voting Aristeia.

Full fucking stop.

Why are you ignoring that all these fucking Town PRs make no sense? It's WAY too much Town power.

Aristeia is the only unconfirmed VT claim.

[Random Nurse]

I'm not voting Aristeia.

Full fucking stop.

Why are you ignoring that all these fucking Town PRs make no sense? It's WAY too much Town power.

Aristeia is the only unconfirmed VT claim.

ok, i have really good reasons for thinking hutao is town though. can we compromise on kay? or will you hear me out first?

Fine.

Share your reasons.

I'm open to Kay. I am NOT convinced on voting Aristeia this game. There's way too much claimed Town power it makes NO sense in a reviewed game.

[Random Nurse]

If Kay flips Town and somehow I'm still alive I'll be voting Hu Tao.

[Random Nurse]

If Kay flips Town and somehow I'm still alive I'll be voting Hu Tao.

I'll be voting ari.

Why?

Makes no sense mechanics-wise.

[Random Nurse]

VOTE: Kay

I'll be locking my vote on Hu tomorrow if left alive.

[Random Nurse]

Ari's screaming Town to me.

[Random Nurse]

its up to you to hammer hutao i want you to embrace the future head on or until i have the opportunity to quote one of your stop stalling posts

There is no future head on RN will vote me

Not unless I can draw the shot first.

[Random Nurse]

Come on. Vote.

[Random Nurse]

*rolls eyes*

[Random Nurse]

Can I ask why you cleared PC day 3? Did you know I had an innocent on PC?

See?

[Random Nurse]

Everyone was saying oh the scum team is coaching, feeding info - I fucking wish

how annoyed were you with all the questions I asked?

I wasn’t annoyed. I literally just told myself I was town. I was in denial that my first game ever was as mafia so I refused to believe it until I couldn’t ignore it anymore lol

You're better than me as Scum.

[Random Nurse]

It still feels, to me at least, that there was a bit too much Town power.

Fair or no?

[Random Nurse]

It still feels, to me at least, that there was a bit too much Town power.

Fair or no?

Especially with the scum team chosen from the remedial box

Remedial box?

[Random Nurse]

It still feels, to me at least, that there was a bit too much Town power.

Fair or no?

Especially with the scum team chosen from the remedial box

Remedial box?

remedial

(

adjective

): concerned with the correction of faulty study habits and the raising of a pupil's general competence

It means we didn’t know what we were doing lol

I see.

Gera should've been able to lead better given his experience.

[Random Nurse]

Like I said, Ari was spot on. Informed about bulletproof IC. I knew we couldn’t kill him without NAS and still hammered him lol I wish the scum roles were switched around

Wait. He was the only one that could kill me?

Wow. How did that get passed? All 3 of you should've been able to Night 3.

[Random Nurse]

This is where I say I'm not really a gunsmith

Really.

[Random Nurse]

I'm joking

[Random Nurse]

On this I think communication is key.

Always always discuss an action first with your teammates before doing any kind of claim.

[Random Nurse]

Subject: Mini Normal 2329: complex. [day 4]

Random Nurse

- never join a game i'm moderating or playing in again. i saw the posts you made in the normal game changes thread. or rather, others brought them to my attention. i know your alignment was public knowledge in this game so *technically* nothing new was revealed, but it is extremely disrespectful to both me and other players, and damaging to the game integrity to be discussing your own role (or close enough) in other threads. not to mention heavily breaks the no talking about ongoing games rule. there is no clever workaround from that rule.

Hold on.

What exactly are you talking about?

Which posts and when?

That post in that thread pertains to a 31-player large game I'm getting ready to make. I just put it in signups. I wasn't talking about your game at ALL.

[Random Nurse]

/in to mod

Number of Players:

31

Custom or Pre-Designed:

Custom

Backup/Co-Mod:

pending

Player Experience:

Since 2013.

Moderating Experience:

Too many.

Current Modding Commitments:

None.

Alt Policy:

Alts allowed. Don't have to disclose.

Playerlist Policy:

WOTM yes. WOTC yes if multiple players blacklist a player (3+).
[Reminder: Normal games cannot have restrictions on player experience requirements and cannot have hydras.]

Deadlines:

Days are 2 weeks. Nights are 3 days (72 hours).

Prod Timer:

72 hours.

Other:

Game is 23:8. Mafia is multitasking by default. Singleball large Complex. Godfather will exist.

This one.

[Random Nurse]

Which posts and when?

the ones made yesterday. 145, 150, 152. i had to ask ausuka what to do, she blanked one of those. like come on man you were talking about bulletproof roles and immune roles when you were a BP role here and there was an immune role flipped. and you said "whoopsies i said too much" like.

if that's for your 31p game, then congrats that game is now compromised as well because there's public info about it

Yeah, now it's ruined.

I was toying with the idea of all 8 Scum knowing there was a Juggernaut-Immune BP Miller Townie and having to come up with a strategy to REMOVE it.

[Random Nurse]

I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT YOUR GAME DATISI.

I EVEN MADE A THREAD ASKING HOW/WHERE TO DISCUSS IDEAS FOR FUTURE GAMES TO PREVENT THEM GETTING COMPROMISED.

CHECK FIRST BEFORE RUSHING TO A CONCLUSION.

[Random Nurse]

idk man if i'm getting PMs saying "hey datisi a player is discussing their role in public" i have to act fast i don't have time to check every single post you ever made to determine what exactly you're referring to. and even *now* that i'm looking for it, i don't see the question/thread you made to ask about it

I can't remember where but it was a post asking about how/where to discuss the info for a future game, and protect it. It was a mod thread. Hold up let me look for it.

[Random Nurse]

This one.

Is there a way to ask questions regarding game mechanics/balance without tipping people off? Let's say you want to make a game, but have initial questions.

[Random Nurse]

that's cool. you made that post *after* you made the potentially game-compromising post, and you made it in a different thread. like i tentatively believe you that you didn't mean to discuss *this* game there, but guess what! if your posts can so easily be taken as game compromising info (multiple people also told me they thought you were talking about this game), then what you were *thinking about* when making that post or the fact that a full day later, you made a post in a completely different thread that may have shown you weren't exactly breaking site rules there doesn't really matter! the game is already potentially compromised!

anyway i will not be talking about this anymore here.

I wasn't talking about your game. I was trying to get insight on if this idea could work, if a Juggernaut-immune BP Miller could even exist in a Complex game.