Mini Normal 2329: complex. [game over!]

[Titus]

Hiiiii

[Titus]

VOTE: NotaScum

[Titus]

What’s getting me is that Naerys still has a self vote on her…I just don’t get that logic. It’s making me think twice but maybe that’s the point. I don’t know what I’m

supposed

to think about that move.

Exactly my thoughts. Of course I haven't read.

[Titus]

Aside from the self vote, why Naeyrs? Why geratum?

[Titus]

Is this the same Wake of old just a lost password or something?

[Titus]

VOTE: NotaScum

Votes immediately after joining and only says hi before changing the vote from psyche to NAS, but with no explanation.

What’s getting me is that Naerys still has a self vote on her…I just don’t get that logic. It’s making me think twice but maybe that’s the point. I don’t know what I’m

supposed

to think about that move.

Exactly my thoughts. Of course I haven't read.

Admits to not having read, so what informed the NAS vote?

Aside from the self vote, why Naeyrs? Why geratum?

Okay, good questions, but also - then why NAS?

I routinely vote for vca. I read people by their reactions to wagons. I'd be surprised by dueling town wagons here this far from deadline.

[Titus]

it’s because nas is scummm

And that may be true but right now I’m more interested in how they came to that conclusion before they read and/or what other things they’ve picked up since joining.

It's a mistake to conclude I have deduced anyone is scum at this point. My vote is my power and I intend to use it that way. I set us up long term. I do have a pocket scumread based on the last few pages.

[Titus]

Well two depending on flips.

[Titus]

I’m going to be sad if the scum team is something like geraint/Titus/KJQ

I think I just wanna lim in this pool today though

The only one that can be scum here is geratim. However, why is your vote not there?

[Titus]

for what it’s worth i suddenly feel better about you

Why?

[Titus]

Well originally I had voted Naerys. I took my vote away for two reasons. The reason I just mentioned about not wanting to eliminate both Naerys and Hu (mainly because I am town reading Hu) but also because Naerys was getting close to elimination and I didn’t want the day to end that early. I feel like I’ve learned a lot since I took my vote off so I stand by my decision.

Why would they be a package deal?

[Titus]

Doctor Drew what do you think about voting either Naerys or Hu?

Naughty point

This is the sole substantive mention of Naerys. Yet now geratim wants to end the day fast.

[Titus]

it’s because nas is scummm

And that may be true but right now I’m more interested in how they came to that conclusion before they read and/or what other things they’ve picked up since joining.

It's a mistake to conclude I have deduced anyone is scum at this point. My vote is my power and I intend to use it that way. I set us up long term. I do have a pocket scumread based on the last few pages.

I guess that makes sense (honestly I’m guessing that it

should

make sense, I’m going to have to wait and see because I don’t know what VCA is exactly). You seem to have a lot of experience playing like a good handful of others in this game and I just wanted to know where your head was at but I didn’t really know what to expect.

My conclusion: that didn’t help me much lol

VCA is looking at votes and determining alignments from there. See Titus academy. Warning: It still has the L word.

[Titus]

Titus also barely posting makes me wonder, considering they're usually tearing into it.

I’m going to be sad if the scum team is something like geraint/Titus/KJQ

I think I just wanna lim in this pool today though

The only one that can be scum here is geratim. However, why is your vote not there?

Is it just me or is this a bit tunnely and, dare I say, distancy?

Lol. These do not compute.

[Titus]

Oh VCA stands for vote count analysis.

[Titus]

VOTE: Aristela

Just following wagons. No following up on Clout. Only 2 mentions before the vote.

[Titus]

First confident vote.

[Titus]

im not saying aristeia is definitely town but she is perfectly capable of faking a trajectory and looking towny

if you're voting someone for just following wagons im not sure why you'd vote aristeia over geraintm who has had a lot of support as a wagon already

That wagon is disintegrating.

[Titus]

Plus I am more confident.

[Titus]

for why

She's done it twice and geratim has excuse of survival.

[Titus]

Meh, I feel like me not being here is bullshit of repetition.

I also think pc and geratim share an alignment most likely given the wagon movement. Based on play, I feel it's town. I'm getting pushback for highlighting how bullshit that vote from Ari was.

[Titus]

The resistance to Naerys wagon is getting difficult to ignore.

I’m thinking Naerys is scum and her partners are trying to prevent her launch.

It's something I've considered as well. I lean more town and scum want to save it more for later and take out a more active and offered player.

[Titus]

Random can you leave a will?

[Titus]

Meh, I feel like me not being here is bullshit of repetition.

I also think pc and geratim share an alignment most likely given the wagon movement. Based on play, I feel it's town. I'm getting pushback for highlighting how bullshit that vote from Ari was.

ok Titus

tell me why it's bullshit for me to sheep Dannflor/Klick in this game state.

This is how I read this game state and why;

Naerys is the "it wagon" it's got about 4-5 votes, she's being pushed by the IC, as long as that grouping remains intact pretty much no other wagon is going to be "impactful"

If Naerys is town and there's 4 town voters + 1 scum voter on Naerys; it leaves eight votes outside of the Naerys cluster, 2 of which are mafia. I don't think you'll find more than 1 mafia voter because if Naerys is town this is one of those self-immolation plays that scum usually just sit on the sidelines for.

So in that game state, me voting by myself is literally pointless to me because no mafia is ever going to feel "pressured" by my one vote with so many town votes stuck on Naerys. The only way to generate information in such a game state is to vote with other people to try to create threats to the current status quo of the game state. If I do not work to change the narrative, the present course just gets pushed through and it's basically punting on the day.

Working with people isn't a problem. It's the lack of mention in your ISO that's the problem.

[Titus]

VOTE: Aristela

Just following wagons. No following up on Clout. Only 2 mentions before the vote.

@Ari, Technically my vote came before the explanation in the same post.

[Titus]

like if you log on and you see some people trying to start a counterwagon to the current prevailing wagon and you don't think the current prevailing wagon is on mafia why is it anti-town to help the counterwagon to generate more information?

I don't have a good read on PC, but helping people I think are townie and working to generate more information is always good because one stagnant prevailing wagon and lots of small 1 or 2 vote wagons do not do anything.

Then why didn't you follow up on things?

[Titus]

don't mind them guys they drank some hatorade this morning. I was thinking it might be aristea way back when I made my dumb prediction post at work because I had nothing better to do then someone quoted wait dr. drew I think that would scum make that post and quoted aristea lke idk third post or something I'm hard guessing. but klick also quoted it way back. anyways I was thinking nah scum don't make that post. then I was thinking I haven't seen them then I started reading back and saw that they were going after gera now. It felt WEIRD. that's where I'm at with aristea.

my pronouns are she/her

if you have questions for me you can just ask me

Namely this.

[Titus]

@Ari, Technically my vote came before the explanation in the same post.

so you mean you voted me without mentioning me in your iso prior to your vote

Differences are I gave a reason and I haven't been here all game.

[Titus]

don't mind them guys they drank some hatorade this morning. I was thinking it might be aristea way back when I made my dumb prediction post at work because I had nothing better to do then someone quoted wait dr. drew I think that would scum make that post and quoted aristea lke idk third post or something I'm hard guessing. but klick also quoted it way back. anyways I was thinking nah scum don't make that post. then I was thinking I haven't seen them then I started reading back and saw that they were going after gera now. It felt WEIRD. that's where I'm at with aristea.

my pronouns are she/her

if you have questions for me you can just ask me

Namely this.

follow up what?

he rambled on about "thinking" about my alignment

I asked him if he had any questions about me

he decided not to ask me anything

why am I supposed to be following up?

Anything. Ask PC a question. Comment on PC's lack of follow through. Your statement and vote don't do that. It's just there. There's no sorting effort.

[Titus]

@Ari, Technically my vote came before the explanation in the same post.

so you mean you voted me without mentioning me in your iso prior to your vote

Differences are I gave a reason and I haven't been here all game.

I don't feel a compulsion to write out a reason with every vote I make. Your original point was that not mentioning the person prior in the iso is scummy, when pointed out that you did the same thing you've begun moving the goalposts rather than recognizing the flaws in your own logic.

Fairish on moving the goal posts but different circumstances are different. You sheeped twice. You have no hunting and have no backbone.

[Titus]

Anything. Ask PC a question. Comment on PC's lack of follow through. Your statement and vote don't do that. It's just there. There's no sorting effort.

asking him to ask me questions is sorting him

No. It's passive and you didn't draw any conclusions from PC not doing it.

[Titus]

I'm not spending three pages arguing with you. Until I see aggressive posting, you're just scum to me.

[Titus]

I'm not spending three pages arguing with you. Until I see aggressive posting, you're just scum to me.

ari can easily be aggressive as scum

Aggressive is probably the wrong word. Assertive or proactive is better.

Any scum can say ask me something.

[Titus]

Titus, do you have opinions on anyone else?

Leaning scum on Dan. He's opposing everything I'm saying rather than working with me.

I'm concerned about Wake, but that could be real life.

I like pc, ger, hu tao and kay.

[Titus]

I expect town Dan to see I'm town.

[Titus]

Oh on Wake.

[Titus]

Ari Dan Psyche? Thoughts on that being the team.

[Titus]

Ari Dan Psyche? Thoughts on that being the team.

0 chance imo. Maybe 2 out of those

Which two?

[Titus]

She's literally at E-2

She's hard to get voted out because people (like me) have legitimate suspicions that she is just town and that you and her got into a nonsense TvT argument and can't get over yourselves

I do too but hell blood for the vca gods and she's not doing anything

[Titus]

Frankly I think the narrative of 'this is all a very intentional scum ploy from Naerys' is ridiculous and she's obviously not enjoying this or having much intentionality in how she feels about this and I have no clue why Hu Tao thinks that's at all plausible

I have to assume Naerys is having fun due to the site rule to sub out if you aren't.

[Titus]

I think ari might be scum. She is pushing the Naerys/me narrative because she knows Naerys is gonna flip scum. And knows that they can't nk me because of my self vote to e-1 they know on VT. So only way to get rid of me is to tie me to Naerys

Well, I'm eating at your Ari scum restaurant but I might be building a tunnel in it.

[Titus]

maybe I just want to kill NotAScum idk

Meh not my preferred but I'd do it

[Titus]

what is everybody's read on dave

Dude, did you just get Elon Musk's credit card or you just looking

[Titus]

Titus, PC, why are you on Aristeia and not Naerys?

Because I'm confident there.

[Titus]

Titus, PC, why are you on Aristeia and not Naerys?

Because I'm confident there.

Based on?

Her passive behavior and now they're asinine Hu Naerys theory. She and Dan are very much hard defending each other when they both have little suspicion on them. Dan's taken a hostile attitude towards me since I came in. Could be s v s partners or one scum with a pocketed town.

[Titus]

VOTE: Naerys

Ftr I want Ari or Dan but I don't think that's happening. Naerys isn't a horrible compromise.

[Titus]

Only a few more Naerys votes I think

It's either one or two.

[Titus]

Dan, what good is Naerys providing? Why are you searching for another wagon so hard?

[Titus]

I struggle to see how this is not intentional when you start with "her" and switch to "they're" which isn't even the right form of their

It was an accident. I spoke off the cuff. I use they them as a generic but I'm trying to remember pronouns.

[Titus]

If Klick was vigged, Dannflor is likely scum.

[Titus]

If Klick was vigged, Dannflor is likely scum.

if cows were horses we wouldn’t have milk

Interesting omgus. You aren't an idiot, so why are you voting me?

[Titus]

Ari, why self vote? Comments on Dan's vote.

[Titus]

VOTE: NotAScum

Okay how about we vote the obvious scum so we all feel better about ourselves tomorrow

I need to sort Dannflor response.

[Titus]

If Klick was vigged, Dannflor is likely scum.

if cows were horses we wouldn’t have milk

Interesting omgus. You aren't an idiot, so why are you voting me?

[Titus]

If Klick was vigged, Dannflor is likely scum.

if cows were horses we wouldn’t have milk

Interesting omgus. You aren't an idiot, so why are you voting me?

i think klick being a vigilante kill is kind of fairy land make believe world and i think you beginning the day with analysis based on that world is much more likely to come from scum than someone with genuine thoughts on the game

[Titus]

Grr post ate

Why is Klick vig shot fairy land?
Why aren't you concerned about how I reached that conclusion? Because you already know.

[Titus]

Why is Klick vig shot fairy land?
Why aren't you concerned about how I reached that conclusion? Because you already know.

klick was widely town read and i think an obstacle to scum, i think it makes more sense to assume scum were more threatened by klick than RN, or found RN more useful than Klick, then that a vig killed Klick

I am concerned with how you reached that conclusion, it's why I voted you

A) Why are you supposing I reached that conclusion? I was merely stating a fact.

B) Why didn't you ask how I got to that conclusion? I think the implication is obvious. The only reason I'm not voting you is because I don't know if Klick was vigged.

[Titus]

VLA this weekend

[Titus]

VOTE: NotAScum


In other news, tempted to start a petition drive to make self voting a bannable offense as being against wincon.

I agree 99% of the time. Not going to say the two times it would not be.

[Titus]

maybe its just Hu Tao + Titus + Psyche

Ari+Dann+Psyche. Bonus if there's a vig.

[Titus]

maybe its just Hu Tao + Titus + Psyche

Ari+Dann+Psyche. Bonus if there's a vig.

Can you explain the vig part/how it informs your read on those 3? I’m not sure I’m following the vig stuff being brought up today. Is there a specific strategy for vig? Is it bad strategy at this point for the vig to claim anything or stay silent?

It's more a crumb really. It's only helpful for a vig to claim if they shot Klick.

I've always scumread Ali and Dann. Psyche is rule of 3.

[Titus]

VOTE: Dann

[Titus]

I am getting the reactions I want. You three are circling around each other. I can't force people to see the pattern.

[Titus]

My hesitation on NotaScum is because I feel like I have the scumteam.

[Titus]

do you even have a case for not a scum

so notascum ended as the second biggest wagon of yesterday and was discussed at length as a potential scumread by tons of people
but aristeia, who went out of her way to push through the naeyrs wagon through against a wealth of resistance, apparently did not notice anyone post reasons for voting NAS either 1) back when anyone made these posts, or 2) while reflecting on the outcome of Day and Night 1
aristeia even bothered to spend a post examining NAS's game history before peeking at even one post someone's made this game explainaing their NAS scumread
supposing this slot is town -- which i suppose is not certain! -- the amount of wasted effort here is breathtaking

Good post

Aristeia and Psyche both scumread each other but go out of their way to FoS me together. Just sayin

[Titus]

@Hu Tao, How would that get me closer to flipping my scumreads?

[Titus]

Meh Ari's recent posting is either frustrated town or scum just pleading not to bus desperately meaning Ari would have to be scum with NAS. Ari wouldn't be desperate if my solve was right and that sounds genuine. So I'm wrong somewhere.

VOTE: NaS

[Titus]

Random Nurse,

davesaz

, geraintm,

Hu Tao, Titus, Aristeia

, NotAScum

NotAScum [4]: Psyche,

Hu Tao, davesaz, Aristeia,

and titus

4 of the people on naerys are on not a scum wagon. like come on we should be killing off the wagon.

No one wants Dann though.

[Titus]

You're at E minus 1. You should probably claim.

[Titus]

Can you give a reads list?

[Titus]

Why does God make rain? I feel like crap

[Titus]

Town

Hu Taown
Random Nurse
Political Clout

Leaning Town

Psyche
davesaz
Titus

Slight Town

KayJayQueue

Unsure

Aristeia
Dannflor
geraintm
NotAScum

If I'm wrong with someone here, I think it's someone in leaning town tier. I'm most confident in Psyche in this tier. I think the Klick kill spews Psyche as town

How? I haven't ruled out Klick as a vig shot. I think if Klick is not a vig shot, Klick's reads are a good place to start. I just see Dannflor posturing and feel ick though.

[Titus]

I wouldn't. The vig would have Dann as likely scum but would see Dann as scum. He could just shoot them. Then again, probably means I should stop and wait to see if Dan's shot by night 4.

[Titus]

Got ninjaed.

I wouldn't means I wouldn't come out as vig.

[Titus]

Dann's post is just waah I'm caught. Comparing that to Ari.

Dan's being hypocritical and failing to see that at best but just projecting. He was avoiding the top two wagons yesterday and not doing anything to push his reads.

I hate being wrong but posts like this from Dan read like a plea for Ari to please scumread Titus rather than an actual scumread.

He is frustrated that I was reconsidering Ari which makes me think Ari is a pocketed townie.

[Titus]

I wouldn't. The vig would have Dann as likely scum but would see Dann as scum. He could just shoot them. Then again, probably means I should stop and wait to see if Dan's shot by night 4.

I just really cannot see this as a genuine thought process

More crying and being upset but scum Dann can't complain about the real reason he's upset.

If Klick is indeed a vig shot, then the scum kill is missing. Dan's whining about that. I wonder why. /s

[Titus]

How? I haven't ruled out Klick as a vig shot. I think if Klick is not a vig shot, Klick's reads are a good place to start. I just see Dannflor posturing and feel ick though.

Wouldn’t the vig have come forward if that’s what happened?

Agreed. Also gera or NAS would have been the vig shot imo

Noted. I am considering Klick wasn't a vig shot despite doubting it. Klick's last vote was NAS.

[Titus]

Klick was softing Mason with Psyche. I think that's why he was killed. Which is why I think Psyche is town.

Where

[Titus]

but it seems to me like an artificial narrowing
could just as easily propose we pick 5 slots at random and vote between those and say it "narrows it down considerably"
unless you're that confident that all the scum voted the given away

All scum would likely not vote a certain way unless a PR was threatened. Scum may prefer something but are unlikely to overload.

[Titus]

but it seems to me like an artificial narrowing
could just as easily propose we pick 5 slots at random and vote between those and say it "narrows it down considerably"
unless you're that confident that all the scum voted the given away

i think it's somewhat reasonable to assume there are more scum on wagon since the night kill was someone off wagon

unless you're a vig truther

Strong disagree. Scum being off wagon with resistance to a counter at all suggests scum didn't give a damn.

I.e. You.

[Titus]

I'll just say this. I am a gated roleblocker. I roleblocked Dann and scum are scared. If Klick is a vig kill, Dann did the scumkill. I've eluded to it but scum Dann is pissed.

[Titus]

I'm replacing Ari with PC in my scumreads based on recent posting. Davesaz is regrettably town probably.

[Titus]

PC's over reliance on pushing people who are on "both wagons" seems like TMI, since a) we don't know if the 2nd wagon is on town, and b) the 2nd wagon is on the person who hammered the 1st wagon.

In case you haven't been following, PC's second wagon is an older point in time on the NAS wagon. Furthermore, there isn't any adaptation of that analysis based on wagon movement either yesterday or today, it's taking two static points in time.

I can go for this.

[Titus]

I'll just say this. I am a gated roleblocker. I roleblocked Dann and scum are scared. If Klick is a vig kill, Dann did the scumkill. I've eluded to it but scum Dann is pissed.

If true, very unnecessary to out this at this point in the day.

I implied it to the point any comptent scumteam knows and I'm pissed at the fact a wagon formed on me for stating the fucking obvious. Dan is either a scum PR or did the nightkill. He's scared. So is PC.

[Titus]

VOTE: PC

Now that's an interesting move.

[Titus]

Gated means with limitations. So backup, novice, x-shot, odd/even are all gated roles. Basically, if you can't unconditionally act every night (barring a roleblocker) then you're gated.

[Titus]

I'm feeling a bit ill. Will try tonight.

[Titus]

the basis for my townlean on titus is that i feel convinced by her conviction around dann in particular. the roleblocker claim itself is null at best for me. but again i have a "the basis for my townlean on " cooked for everyone. i guess im more interested in confirming titus than vice versa...

Why wouldn't scum kill her? Or are they not scared of roleblocker

Gated would imply that I likely couldn't act plus I have been shown to be an idiot

[Titus]

titus. let's try a more dialogue based style today maybe? where are you now and howd you get there

so titus just ignore this for now if that's okay!

Drunk titus can ignore like a champ

[Titus]

Sorry. Reality swamped me. Odd night roleblocker

[Titus]

Since Titus claimed odd night role blocker. I think we can win this tonight if she's town.

Psyche, do you have a vigilante shot for tomorrow? If so I think we win

I'll follow the lead here. It'll be easier for me IRL if we wrap by Wednesday.

[Titus]

UNVOTE:

we shouldnt put gera at e-1 until titus says whos shes roleblocking

I want to hear Hu's solving first. I'm not feeling well. Brain power work

[Titus]

If we can break the game, I need a person to bounce from. My block might be clear if no kill.

[Titus]

UNVOTE:

we shouldnt put gera at e-1 until titus says whos shes roleblocking

I want to hear Hu's solving first. I'm not feeling well. Brain power work

I already posted it. Would you block Kay

Link me please. Brain dead but not opposed. Just need to check.

[Titus]

Sure. Blocking Kay.

VOTE: Gera

[Titus]

That's fine. Willing to defer bc IRL and sick.

[Titus]

Umm on 2682, wouldn't it be better to check me as Kay would be blocked

[Titus]

VLA this weekend

[Titus]

Ok. I'm just blocking Kay unless it changes. Reality is bogging me down.

[Titus]

Ok. I'm just blocking Kay unless it changes. Reality is bogging me down.

Titus are you unable to spend time to play this game at any point in the next five days

I am playing? We have a consensus scumread and a gameplan, so why prolong it?

[Titus]

Good game all. Glad I could do my part. Sorry for being bad. Especially to you Dan.