Micro Normal 1102: ootmgoat [game over!]

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Hi hi (hi black!), it's been a minute

VOTE: CSF

It's been too long my sweet kitty

dumb read to get this going

if black was svs with CSF then she'd have talked with her already in their PT and would therefore not say its been too long

Dumb as it may be, your read happens to be right

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: gimli

Curious vote, why?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I don’t know these people well enough to know if this is all sarcasm or not.

How would knowing this affect your reads?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Then in this case I will say they are sarcastic. Unless you think a game with 5 scum and 4 town is possible.

You tell me

I feel like you're playing the newbie / "I'm so lost" card too much for it to be natural and hiding behind it sorta

VOTE: KayJayQueue

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: gimli

Curious vote, why?

sweaty vibes masquerading as carefree vibes

I'm mostly just getting sweaty vibes tbh

---

I can see the reasons for the DK vote; her catch up was long (relatively) but very fluffy.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Then in this case I will say they are sarcastic. Unless you think a game with 5 scum and 4 town is possible.

You tell me

I feel like you're playing the newbie / "I'm so lost" card too much for it to be natural and hiding behind it sorta

VOTE: KayJayQueue

Well if it eases your worry - that was, in fact, a joke.

There were also these other posts that gave me this impression, which in spite of the light-hearted framing, still comes across as emphasizing your newness. I guess it's this behavior plus not commenting on other things in the game, hence giving me the "hiding behind it" feeling

Spoiler:

Oh wow Dannflor is in this game. So I can get live coaching from him on this.

Wait, where do I sign up for coaching?! I’m sure everyone knows I need it lol

Not yet. I feel comfortable reading most of the players though except like 3 so I'm not worried

Tell me who the scum are please, I’m exhausted today

I don’t know these people well enough to know if this is all sarcasm or not.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I have DE as town, and gimli and black as probably town

Everyone else is a big ?

...i guess those reads aren't very innovative lol

[Cat Scratch Fever]

damn Black is here to play

[Cat Scratch Fever]

damn Black is here to play

Vote Hu with me? I'm fairly confident she's scum

I saw your case, but I'd expect most people to react defensively if someone asked them to start playing seriously on page 2

I guess I'll wait for her respond to the Dragon read thing, but I didn't really see an issue with her 50

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Of all those talking I want to eliminate gimli

VOTE: Gimli

Why Gimli?

I'm scared of Dann and Kay. DK I want to give more time to figure out with and talk with Dragon about. You Cat and Dragon I Town read. May is a ghost. This is where I am at right now

Wdym by you're scared of dann and kay?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

My May read changed with nearly every other post of hers that I read lol

My vote on DK has become serious.

Quick heads up to DK: I'm ignoring your meta completely as you are playing under an alt and I am going to presume you'd be playing differently. If this is wrong feel free to let me know and also feel free to ignore this part of the post.

This post is scummy or doofus or both

Why is this post scummy (or doofus)?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: dragoneater

actually bad enough posts to be just scum in this game

@ahsoka: you called me sweaty early on as a maybe scummy thing. how sweaty would you say DE is in this game, from 0 to 5?

This post did surprise me in a "it came out of left field" way. What are the bad posts?

---

I feel like the parroting case wasn't entirely generous. If you dig into anyone's ISO, I suspect there will be parroting. I do remember Gimli townreading DE and Black early, which I think were new?

And Gimli's POE solve is also very similar to mine. I don't really feel like he is scum

[Cat Scratch Fever]

what do you think of hu tao, btw? you towning on her?

Tentatively, yeah

Wrt to her initial push on you, I got some "welp I'm getting wagoned, better pull some reads out" vibes from her, which... yeah I've been there as town

I too think Dragon was very towny, and I felt like she was going against the grain after multiple people said dragon's AtE was scummy

[Cat Scratch Fever]

To me it felt like something Gimli/Dragon may have planned so if one of them flips scum I'll probably be down to just flip the other

I kinda doubt it given what happened

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I feel like I'm reading a different game, which maybe actually points away from a KJQ/Kage team?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I feel like I'm reading a different game, which maybe actually points away from a KJQ/Kage team?

everything kinda points to kjq/kage from how im reading things

I found dannflor's push on me and subsequent voting kage pretty town

I don't think black throws a disgusting me/DE svs read like that if she is scum - and given that dannflor thought the same thing, the disgusting read might as well just be an impression townies are having given different standpoints

but anyway I'm not set in stone with this read, I dont think kage or kjq done enough to justify such a strong read either way yet

yeah this is a mood

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Gimli

This makes Gimli E-1

No lolhammering or even hammering plz, Kage still needs to like actually do stuff

[Cat Scratch Fever]

KJQ what about Gimli's ISO do you not like?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

KJQ what about Gimli's ISO do you not like?

114 122
129 vs 135
148 vs 198
238 vs 240 vs 244
277 vs 321

Can you say why those reads and progressions are not believable from a town perspective?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I kinda don't think its kay now. I understand her scumread on me.

Ehhh it seems like scum reading a certain anti town behavior rather than believing it is scummy

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I kinda don't think its kay now. I understand her scumread on me.

Ehhh it seems like scum reading a certain anti town behavior rather than believing it is scummy

Are you saying Kay is scummy?

Yeah

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'm not sure sheephopping is antitown

You've gotta signal boost a townie at least sometimes right? So I don't follow perfectly

I'm kind of extrapolating the anti town part from the last sentence of 357. I personally don't think it's anti town

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I kinda don't think its kay now. I understand her scumread on me.

Ehhh it seems like scum reading a certain anti town behavior rather than believing it is scummy

Are you saying Kay is scummy?

Yeah

I think you’re seeing what you want to see. No matter how I answered your question, you’d have found a reason to believe it was scummy. That’s what I think.

What am I? Town, scum, annoying?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Spoiler:

VOTE: dragon

okay but we flip kage next no matter what this flips

i am still very much struggling to reconcile your confidence here as genuine

266 is like a fine case for a lukewarm scum read but not the temperature you seem to be at

I reread and I think I'd be very surprised if gimli/dragon were ever scum together

+ i think if gimli's scum his "how could you EVER think I could be scum with DRAGNO???" is a genuine reaction

what bravado?

Your bravado! don't say you're not doing it!! you clearly are!!

it very much feels like you're putting on this performance of "yeah idc im just town ill vote wherever to not die this is how the game works nyah nyah" and instead of trying to be diplomatic in anyway you're being fiesty because you think that's what'll get you town read

the only problem is if it's true that you as town would lampshade your own RVS reads because you're selfaware about optics then maybe you're also the type of person who would do all this shit as town

but right now it really feels like you'd have dropped the act by now

I thought these posts were quite towny. I'm town reading dann now. Thanks for listening

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I think black is town bc if I'm dumb for thinking de gimli is a good team she is probably the same dumb

If she's smart for thinking that there can't be 3 scum

I don't think she thinks that anymore. Does that change your read?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Spoiler:

VOTE: dragon

okay but we flip kage next no matter what this flips

i am still very much struggling to reconcile your confidence here as genuine

266 is like a fine case for a lukewarm scum read but not the temperature you seem to be at

I reread and I think I'd be very surprised if gimli/dragon were ever scum together

+ i think if gimli's scum his "how could you EVER think I could be scum with DRAGNO???" is a genuine reaction

what bravado?

Your bravado! don't say you're not doing it!! you clearly are!!

it very much feels like you're putting on this performance of "yeah idc im just town ill vote wherever to not die this is how the game works nyah nyah" and instead of trying to be diplomatic in anyway you're being fiesty because you think that's what'll get you town read

the only problem is if it's true that you as town would lampshade your own RVS reads because you're selfaware about optics then maybe you're also the type of person who would do all this shit as town

but right now it really feels like you'd have dropped the act by now

I thought these posts were quite towny. I'm town reading dann now. Thanks for listening

agree quite strongly with this

CSF, how is your kay read atm?

how are you reading black?

Still scum. I see the points you and others have made in her favor, but I feel like they're mostly casual tone and how well she reacted to pressure. I don't really consider those factors, because of how often I've gotten snowed on stuff like that. I think she still lacks some elements in her gameplay that I would have expected to come out by now for any scumhunting player regardless of experience.

Still town. Vibes mostly

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I don't think I'm buying the part about half of the read being a reaction test. I feel like if that were the case then Dann probably wouldn't be so invested in defending the legitimacy of the read? Like he would just have admitted it was a lazy/weak read for the reactions and moved on

I also think 435 and 441 are pretty weak follow ups for someone who is trying to gauge a reaction

I don't think it was a reaction test so much as an underbaked thought posted before it was fully fleshed out just to see what would happen. Maybe that's why you're getting these vibes?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Does hu tao tunnel less as scum or something? The tunneling is actually what makes me unsure about her towniness

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I think I've only read like 0.5% or 5 different hu tao games I didn't play or even consider repping into but I still have this vague impression she tunnels everyone everywhere all over the place

Lmao

I'm worried about your alignment and the way you generate reads genuinely confuses me

But at least you're funny

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I've laughed at other stuff

Like "Hu Tao is a flying" though I must politely disagree, in my amateur opinion she's a psychic

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Gimli

e-2

<snip>

who do you think is possibly partners with Gimli? I ask because I don't really have a good answer to this one, and is another reason why I think Gimli is town

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Gimli

e-2

<snip>

who do you think is possibly partners with Gimli? I ask because I don't really have a good answer to this one, and is another reason why I think Gimli is town

Can I hear why you have ruled everyone out?

I don't really think scum would be so eager to bus day 1 of a micro, because it's hard to come back from. He's attracting votes from almost everyone.

Based on 1 scumgame I played with Hu Tao and May each, I think they're both more cooperative scum players to do this to their scum buddy.

KJQ has given a grand total of like 1 read up to this point and it's "gimli scum," which also doesn't feel partner-y.

DE I've already talked about, and I think you agree.

The only one possible is Kage Ig, but it doesn't really feel good given Kage has been in Gimli's PoE solve

Maybe Dannflor but his interactions with dann are very natural to the point that I doubt they're SvS

[Cat Scratch Fever]

But the last time we rolled scum I bussed you with a bazooka

It was beautiful

I think we only bussed towards the mid-lategame though to give us that extra

oompf

over the finish line, y'know?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

But the last time we rolled scum I bussed you with a bazooka

It was beautiful

I think we only bussed towards the mid-lategame though to give us that extra

oompf

over the finish line, y'know?

I bussed you pretty seriously at the end of day1 in addition to the major midgame push

viewtopic.php?p=11628055#p11628055

I think you're right about that game

Day 1 in micro though? I guess only you would know deep down

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Ah there it is again. It’s giving me whiplash.

you made one read this entire game and its this read

sorry about the whiplash ig

Literally giving an opinion that someone else just gave…word for word.

It's ok to parrot if the content is true and just

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Do you have any other reads?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Perhaps

VOTE: kage

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Multiple people have defended you....

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Off of very little no less but what do I know about tone

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Ugh I basically have buyers remorse already from moving my vote off already, just more AtE when almost getting voted.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Kay's response in some sense isn't really scumhunting but wraps language around the dual possibility of every other slot in a way that seems alignment indicative.

what does this mean? like the "wraps language around the dual possibility of every other slot" part

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I never felt so unwelcome in any game as I do in this one fwiw.

Same

Sorry if I contributed to this in any sense. Though I get aggressive sometimes, the intent is never to make anyone feel unwelcome, you included

I asked earlier if you had any other reads. That was a genuine reach out if you want to talk about that instead?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Just because I’ve only given one in-depth read doesn’t mean I’m wrong. Until proven otherwise, I don’t see anything wrong with my read.

its fine you're just probably scum this game

being on my wagon is smart

Weird how before you were content not to defend yourself because you thought I was town and understood why I was scum reading you? Now you’re just being dismissive that I’m scum and giving the condescending “it’s fine”. I really do hope you’re scum and are just playing the part to put sus on me because if this is really how you are as town when you get heat (such as saying I’m not on your level and that I was wrong because I’m new) then it’s not a very inviting environment as a new player to come into. If everything is based on meta and “how they normally play” or “I always do this as town” it alienates anyone that is new and unfamiliar with past games or the players. It feels like a crutch to just say it’s a meta.

I don't think newscum writes this

Don't fall for her tricks so easily. I said this multiple times last game and she was scum she's a sneaky one

what's your read on her?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

less than 48 hours in but it already feels like today's elimination is a foregone conclusion

how in the hell

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Just feels like I already picked my favorite way to say it in English :[

English was my worst subject in school
and I took French as a second language subject

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Gimli is role-playing Flavor Leaf. And DE and I may have stepped on each other's toes as soon as I started posting, so I'm scum for backing off for a while instead of hyperposting like everyone else.

is this a comment on gimli's alignment?

More a warning that I will policy vote there

As for a read, Gimli having and discarding reads like clothes is bad. It's a tactic that can be used by town but fits better in the hands of scum, who have no accountability for their reads because that one you're discussing is old and you just need to get over it. I'm not even reading closely yet but I'm pretty sure Gimli has both townread and scumread every slot in the game except me already. It keeps everyone off balance but does little to progress with actual solving, and comes off especially fake to me because somehow everyone else escapes his PoE at some point but it's always just consistently small enough to be considering one certain person my supposed partner at any given time. So the idea is nobody else feels too personally threatened by being scumread, because the PoE is minimal and the rotating slot is just constantly changing anyway. In a townie thought process where he's constantly re-evaluating, I feel he'd genuinely shake up his reads entirely from time to time and consider a world where he's just wrong. But I'm not seeing any genuine paranoia here, and that indicates it's a scum power play.

I definitely don't want this slot to see ELO, it needs to be resolved first because if he's actually town he's not going to be trusted by anyone.

scumpost

Kinda agree tbh

[Cat Scratch Fever]

less than 48 hours in but it already feels like today's elimination is a foregone conclusion

how in the hell

This feels like a really fake reaction, given the way Gimli has been acting. He's literally calling me a "textbook lurker" when the game length has barely passed the prod timer. That's a false narrative and if you're town you should be realizing it here, not making excuses for him. This is a highly active game but that doesn't make people who actually have lives and can't spend all day every day writing posts and reading things lurkers. I just spent over 10 hours at work, where my ability to do Mafia things is highly limited and sporadic, so I will need to spend some time catching up on things now as I literally didn't even read all of the pages that happened in that time, let alone have time to process and reply to them.

Textbook lurker is perhaps uncharitable, but he wouldn't be the first person this game to feel like the game has lasted ages (relatively speaking, see Dann's push on Black)

I don't see what that has to do with my reaction. We do not share the same sense of game time, probably because Gimli has >100 posts already and has been under pressure most of the time

I think what posts you have written are scummy, activity aside

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Ouch!

[Cat Scratch Fever]

less than 48 hours in but it already feels like today's elimination is a foregone conclusion

how in the hell

This feels like a really fake reaction, given the way Gimli has been acting. He's literally calling me a "textbook lurker" when the game length has barely passed the prod timer. That's a false narrative and if you're town you should be realizing it here, not making excuses for him. This is a highly active game but that doesn't make people who actually have lives and can't spend all day every day writing posts and reading things lurkers. I just spent over 10 hours at work, where my ability to do Mafia things is highly limited and sporadic, so I will need to spend some time catching up on things now as I literally didn't even read all of the pages that happened in that time, let alone have time to process and reply to them.

Textbook lurker is perhaps uncharitable, but he wouldn't be the first person this game to feel like the game has lasted ages (relatively speaking, see Dann's push on Black)

I don't see what that has to do with my reaction. We do not share the same sense of game time, probably because Gimli has >100 posts already and has been under pressure most of the time

I think what posts you have written are scummy, activity aside

I don't see what that

doesn't

have to do with your reaction. If you think things are set in stone already, and it's not even been 48 hours, shouldn't that be your cue to

slow down

and stop feeding the activity grind? Alignment is not determined based on who can post the most.

And I look forward to finding your explanation on why you think I'm scummy because I'm not sure I've seen it yet. Maybe you were the one who thought I posted fluff because I made a few jokes at the start? Sorry I expected this game and the players to be fun, I guess. You usually are or I wouldn't have signed up.

you've sort of lost me now. If you're talking about me I have one of the lower post counts on this board. The activity grind isn't on me. This playerlist is just a very active, very tryhard one. But if I feel like things are going down the wrong track, I will say so. I'm not sure what the issue is?

If you're talking about Gimli, he is the top poster, because you're going to post when you're under pressure. As KJQ noted, if he stops posting, he could just get limmed.

Yeah the fluff and I also thought the way you presented your read in 602 was unnatural. I guess Black put it best

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'm anti fun

and you signed up before me!

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I guess you can also add 638 to the list of reasons I scumread you, Kage, because what you were trying to accuse me of doesn't even seem like something that is scummy? And it doesn't seem related to what you originally mentioned in 625

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'm anti fun

and you signed up before me!

No, I tried to sign up before you and was banished to the repp queue by our ruthless overlord Datisi

You got queue sniped

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I like scotch if it helps

I have a nice bottle of Speyside waiting, but unfortunately it's Monday and I promised to treat myself on Fridays and Saturdays only

[Cat Scratch Fever]

It's a generic Costco branded one. It's really good! If you live near a Costco, I highly recommend

[Cat Scratch Fever]

you've sort of lost me now. If you're talking about me I have one of the lower post counts on this board. The activity grind isn't on me. This playerlist is just a very active, very tryhard one. But if I feel like things are going down the wrong track, I will say so. I'm not sure what the issue is?

If you're talking about Gimli, he is the top poster, because you're going to post when you're under pressure. As KJQ noted, if he stops posting, he could just get limmed.

Yeah the fluff and I also thought the way you presented your read in 602 was unnatural. I guess Black put it best

You're saying that "things are moving too fast" because you don't want to push Gimli. But Gimli has been the one stoking the fire of how fast things are moving, with his rapid churn of reads and solves and calling me lurkscum for taking a break when stuff got tense (even though I still don't understand why Dragon was offended by me making a joke about him listening to Dannflor ). So why are you appealing to

other

people instead of advising Gimli to take a breath? There was nothing 'set in stone' about what was going on- look, now

I'm

the one most at risk of getting flipped today! This is what happens when people actually allow time for others to talk! So your analysis was just plain wrong and reads as you trying to defend Gimli without actually defending him, just complaining about how faaaaast it's all happening. It was just a matter of hours ago that Kay was getting scrutinized for unvoting with him at E-1 and nobody but her thought there was a risk of the wagon actually getting hammered already. Where is this sense of despair and urgency coming from?

First, I am Actually Defending Gimli

I appealed directly to Black earlier to move her vote off bc I think she's town, and I am pleasantly surprised she moved her vote off but I wasn't sure she was going to and I didn't anticipate her to

I complained bc I don't want my townread to get elimmed. Ultimately other players are the ones who need to move their votes. I already complained about how everyone seems to want to vote Gimli out (and said that's one reason he's town). With you angling to vote there, that's

one more

person that wants him out.

(I don't think you actually disagree with this based on: "[Gimli] needs to be resolved first because if he's actually town he's not going to be trusted by

anyone

." (last part of 602))

I still don't know why you believe any of this is scummy behavior. It seems like it was because I misread the timing of the thread? No I don't think I did, and I think if Black hadn't been suspicious of 602, we would possibly be in a very different place. Even so, Gimli and your wagons are still tied. But really it feels more like I'm arguing with scum

[Cat Scratch Fever]

So why are you appealing to other people instead of advising Gimli to take a breath?

tl;dr I don't get why this matters

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Maybe the reason Gimli is under so much pressure is directly related to having >100 posts. The one thing I’ll agree on that kage said is that Gimli accused nearly everyone of being scum and town at some point. Throwing reads out like they’re candy doesn’t instill much trust in someone because they’ve shown that come the next page, they’ll have moved onto a different read. It’s hard to work with someone that is that indecisive when every time they give a new read, it feels like it’s with full confidence. I can’t trust that behavior, no matter the alignment.

Ok but like you do know you have to like prioritize alignment over all the other stuff at some juncture this game right

You kinda make the game dysfunctional if you treat "bad is the same as being on the other team!" As part of the game nothing is possible to accomplish

I meant to ask, what prompted you to say this? She's voting the same person as you after all, so the "dysfunctional" bit seems like a strange accusation

[Cat Scratch Fever]

i still need to read kayjay

if gimli flips town however how

But the bolded was always true! Why now is what I'm wondering about

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Klick! Hi!

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Oh I'm not so sure about that this game, but thank you

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Dann, what do you make of kage's catch up?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I keep coming back to 112 and then 203 and then 224

it just very much feels like the brand of AtE that comes from scum who desperately believes they haven't done anything scummy

the DK scum read is based heavily in "i've never done x as scum so you shouldn't scum read me for it" which im sure dragon believes is factually true and why he felt comfortable using that point, but it's a specific bit of logic that comes from scum a lot that believes they have an unassailable position. I don't really see town!Dragon believing Duelist's inaccurate read makes her scum

How would this compare to how black reacted to your meta scumread earlier?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

KJq was pretty townie however this game had 3 replacements and I don't remember who replaced who at this point so the positive equity is simply lost to time, will probably lim whichever slot she was before my

V/LA this weekend

What even is this?

I had the same reaction but also it's almost too brazen to be scum?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Dannflor

VOTE: black

Can both of you add some words to these votes? I mean I can extrapolate but I'd rather not have to

[Cat Scratch Fever]

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I don't feel like I've been mediating at all

[Cat Scratch Fever]

CSF, why not just vote May if you had the same issues with her post?

Because of the second half of my post...

May openly states she'll vote a townread, a townread that no one else seems invested in voting for... like not even me after that KJQ replace out. Why does she do this as scum?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I guess I can start posting my conclusions after asking questions, but it's not typically something I do unless I get asked or I feel like I have to, being scumread for it amongst them.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I think Drew is town

That last long post from May makes me think she is probably town as well

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Maybe it's just Kage / Dannflor

I thought it was scummy earlier that Dann came in and did not comment on Kage's posts at all (hence why I asked him about it @Black). I expected him to at least have a heightened awareness of her posting, having voted her earlier in the game and it was another person scumreading Gimli (who he is presumably townreading)

His actual read on her is kind of a hedge. Like first a reason to townread then walks it back some. Dann actually raised a good point about Kage in 785. But then he pivoted to voting... Black?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I think Drew is town

That last long post from May makes me think she is probably town as well

You… think that’s townie? (From may)

Yes

It reads as sardonic at a time when she can't really afford to be sardonic

it ties back to what I said earlier about her not seeming to care about image

[Cat Scratch Fever]

My kneejerk reaction to Kage's catch up is that it was really scum

Generally speaking, the style of catch up where you go back and respond to posts from 20+ pages ago is +scum because we have all moved past that part of the conversation and it serves very little purpose to advance the game.

Why I think it is +scum is because that style of catch up makes it seem like you have a lot of ~thoughts~ about the game without having to respond to posts in real time. Scum can take their time to think about how to respond to certain posts

Spoiler:

Then in this case I will say they are sarcastic. Unless you think a game with 5 scum and 4 town is possible.

You tell me

I feel like you're playing the newbie / "I'm so lost" card too much for it to be natural and hiding behind it sorta

VOTE: KayJayQueue

Hmm, I understand this position, as I read some of a game Kay recently completed, considering replacing in, and I definitely had her in my potential solve along with the actual scum team. (That was a pretty sad game). But I'm disliking it more now, seeing as DE was getting on Gimli's case at the time and now here's a CSF/Gimli defense.

I find it difficult to believe this post was written by town. The assertion is that we as a team would panic on page 7 or whatever when DE wasn't even committed to the wagon (he was pushing Kage right before and sort of compromised onto Gimli)

and that somehow made me wax up a scumread (but one that is completely believable btw!).

Spoiler:

boo

the wink wink nudge nudge secret meta reads are not fun to decipher

See, this was part of my issue with what was going on with DE. I did not expect to come into this game and have him jump around pointing at me going "hey look, an alt! I know who it is!" People now think that he was meta-reading me. He said he wasn't because I'm on an alt so I may be trying to play differently. And yet the way he acted makes people think he is. Without knowing whether he even has the ability to do so (he doesn't). His presumed meta becomes an unfalsifiable argument, short of me explaining more about who I am/why I'm on an alt. I had certain hopes for addressing these things, as I didn't intend or expect to keep my main's identity a secret forever (or even a long time), and having to do so to address a "are you meta-reading me or not" situation was absolutely not any of those hopes. If people guess (like DE did), that's fine and expected (not that I'm trying to make it

too

easy).

the wink wink nudge nudge secret meta reads are not fun to decipher

Who posted anything like that? I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who knows Kage's identity and I didn't really do any meta read of her (aside from saying she should know Gimli's meta, which just trust me on this).

See? What even is this. It's not meta, oh except for this one thing which he just totally made up? If he's town, as seems likely at the moment, he's totally projecting his own confidence because

he

feels like he knows Gimli's meta therefore I, as someone he knows has played with Gimli before, must

also

know. It's awful.

I also don't think town would write this. DE is no longer in the game, and no one was really sheeping his meta read anyway. And furthermore, Kage was

townreading

DE/Drew

in terms of priorities, given Kage doesn't have much time to spend on the time (not blaming you for that), this simply doesn't seem like something she would take the time to write as town

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I would say I separately dislike that 684 is like, holding a town read constant throughout the post and then making a "personalityhunting" post and then treating it as content

If that makes any sense

Yes! that's what I was trying to say

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I do not think most players on this website can reliably distinguish between scum and town AtE

What is this referring to?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

im not really interested in solving or flipping duelist today for reasons

she might be scum but her alignment is gonna become obvious tomorrow either way

But you voted her earlier no? What changed your mind?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

-I found it
-Thank God
-I did search the dumpster and then reconstruct the timeline and realize it was impossible for it to be in the dumpster
-I have thrown my keys in the dumpster before
-"I" found it is a really grandiose term for turning my head towards Pandora yelping "Mommy why are you not picking up this thing you left and usually wear on your neck" in meow and then wrapping my fingers around a lanyard in front of me

Pandora sounds town aligned

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Wait so what exactly are people calling Kage's 'catch-up'?

I was referring to 676 to 691

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Spoiler:

okay I've reread the game, here's where I'm at.

I think Dragon was playing to pocket certain slots like me / Gimli more than he was actually trying to sort either of us early game. I think his play very much matches up with his play in Fruit Mafia

I think the way he interacted with both Gimli and May probably spews both of those slots town

I think the way Dragon reacted to being pushed comes from scum a significant amount of the time

I will try to be clear and concise: when dragon reacted emotionally to being pushed by Gimli and May, his reaction was more focused on being treated "unfairly" and being pushed for the wrong reasons rather than:

1. trying to use the push to sort Gimli or May
   
2. a natural townie reaction to having his town reads not trust him or feeling like he was in danger of being miselimmed

dragon was not in danger of being limmed and that's not what his reactions were focused on, his reactions were not focused on either gimli or may's alignment, it was feeling like the reasons for pushing him were bad and unfair

These things are empirically more likely to come from mafia than town

Literally nothing in this case makes me mafia.

in a recent game of mine, ^^^^^ this was the reaction scum gave when I cased them. further emphasis from DarthPunk was on how bad the case was and requests to actually point out what was *actually scummy* about his posts, much like DE did when Gimli called his posting bad

I can’t do anything about you thinking I’m being “performative”, that’s just how I express myself. And it seems a big unfair to assume I’m not focused on solving things, I’ve been giving this game a lot of my attention. Some things I felt more strongly about and that’s where my attention went. If things I wasn’t giving as much thought to begin to gain steam, I’m just being honest when I say I need to take a better look.

You seem to be jumping on everything I do trying to find a reason to sus me. Yeah, that’s the game, I get it, sus everyone but honestly, it’s getting a bit exhausting. I don’t even have a scum read on you, if anything, being cautious about me is normal as it would be for anyone. I didn’t think anything of it at first. I still think you’re probably more likely town but whatever problem you seem to have with me might get in the way of us working together.

in a recent game of mine, when I pushed KayJayQueue for being performative, she focused on how unfair it was to push her for that because that's just how she types and she isn't even scum reading me so why am I pushing her? this is the same thing DE was doing when he complained about how tired he was of people calling his posts bad and asking people why his posts were even *actually* bad

---

to be clear, I think DE's tone was extremely towny. KJQ's tone when I pushed her in the game I quoted was extremely towny too. it's a specific type of AtE that I am weak to, I think lots of people are weak to it. but, if you put aside the emotion of it and look at the content of what DE is focusing on, it's stuff that scum focuses on over town a much greater percentage of the time

---

JacksonVirgo - this is not a super confident read given KJQ has fooled me with AtE before, but i believe KJQ's frustration with Gimli was extremely town indicative. I think it only really makes sense from scum if Gimli/KJQ is the team which I find unlikely

Klick - i think he probably wants to catch me. I don't think he's ever scum with DE. I think gimli did not need to shift to town reading me when he did if he was scum. i think gimli, if scum, would not have tunneled on duelist so hard because it's just bad optics regardless of duelist's alignment

Black - i think her interactions with dragon are partnery but i think her reaction to me pushing her is probably town!black. i think everytime I've pushed her and she's been scum she's been much more conflict averse or defaulted to town reading me.

Doctor Drew - I think drew's been way more focused on the social aspects of the game than I'm used to seeing from him. i am genuinely shocked he is town reading me and i kind of doubt that doesn't come from an informed perspective

Hu Tao - hu taown

Duelist Kage - could be scum. idk. probably even more likely scum than black. after further review i think she makes some sense as a dragon partner. i just don't think it's optimal to flip her today and i can explain that tomorrow.

Cat Scratch Fever - i still think probably town, i don't think the annoyance at the deepwolf theories read like scum annoyance. i think them going from "dann is extremely towny" to "it's dann/kage" as that becomes the popular read is the type of opportunistic fluidity that only comes from town or extremely experienced scum

May - kind of need her to be town for my sanity. i think she's never scum with DE. generally, i don't think she came into the game trying to make any friends and generally has not tried to town spew herself which I think is a primary goal of her scum game. willing to town bin and reassess later if needed.

I feel like the last paragraph of 203 and 215 were sorting Gimli though. It wasn't just a "you're scumreading me for unfair reasons" but a "you're scumreading for unfair reasons in a way that makes you scum", which I think is quite different

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Spoiler:

okay I've reread the game, here's where I'm at.

I think Dragon was playing to pocket certain slots like me / Gimli more than he was actually trying to sort either of us early game. I think his play very much matches up with his play in Fruit Mafia

I think the way he interacted with both Gimli and May probably spews both of those slots town

I think the way Dragon reacted to being pushed comes from scum a significant amount of the time

I will try to be clear and concise: when dragon reacted emotionally to being pushed by Gimli and May, his reaction was more focused on being treated "unfairly" and being pushed for the wrong reasons rather than:

1. trying to use the push to sort Gimli or May
   
2. a natural townie reaction to having his town reads not trust him or feeling like he was in danger of being miselimmed

dragon was not in danger of being limmed and that's not what his reactions were focused on, his reactions were not focused on either gimli or may's alignment, it was feeling like the reasons for pushing him were bad and unfair

These things are empirically more likely to come from mafia than town

Literally nothing in this case makes me mafia.

in a recent game of mine, ^^^^^ this was the reaction scum gave when I cased them. further emphasis from DarthPunk was on how bad the case was and requests to actually point out what was *actually scummy* about his posts, much like DE did when Gimli called his posting bad

I can’t do anything about you thinking I’m being “performative”, that’s just how I express myself. And it seems a big unfair to assume I’m not focused on solving things, I’ve been giving this game a lot of my attention. Some things I felt more strongly about and that’s where my attention went. If things I wasn’t giving as much thought to begin to gain steam, I’m just being honest when I say I need to take a better look.

You seem to be jumping on everything I do trying to find a reason to sus me. Yeah, that’s the game, I get it, sus everyone but honestly, it’s getting a bit exhausting. I don’t even have a scum read on you, if anything, being cautious about me is normal as it would be for anyone. I didn’t think anything of it at first. I still think you’re probably more likely town but whatever problem you seem to have with me might get in the way of us working together.

in a recent game of mine, when I pushed KayJayQueue for being performative, she focused on how unfair it was to push her for that because that's just how she types and she isn't even scum reading me so why am I pushing her? this is the same thing DE was doing when he complained about how tired he was of people calling his posts bad and asking people why his posts were even *actually* bad

---

to be clear, I think DE's tone was extremely towny. KJQ's tone when I pushed her in the game I quoted was extremely towny too. it's a specific type of AtE that I am weak to, I think lots of people are weak to it. but, if you put aside the emotion of it and look at the content of what DE is focusing on, it's stuff that scum focuses on over town a much greater percentage of the time

---

JacksonVirgo - this is not a super confident read given KJQ has fooled me with AtE before, but i believe KJQ's frustration with Gimli was extremely town indicative. I think it only really makes sense from scum if Gimli/KJQ is the team which I find unlikely

Klick - i think he probably wants to catch me. I don't think he's ever scum with DE. I think gimli did not need to shift to town reading me when he did if he was scum. i think gimli, if scum, would not have tunneled on duelist so hard because it's just bad optics regardless of duelist's alignment

Black - i think her interactions with dragon are partnery but i think her reaction to me pushing her is probably town!black. i think everytime I've pushed her and she's been scum she's been much more conflict averse or defaulted to town reading me.

Doctor Drew - I think drew's been way more focused on the social aspects of the game than I'm used to seeing from him. i am genuinely shocked he is town reading me and i kind of doubt that doesn't come from an informed perspective

Hu Tao - hu taown

Duelist Kage - could be scum. idk. probably even more likely scum than black. after further review i think she makes some sense as a dragon partner. i just don't think it's optimal to flip her today and i can explain that tomorrow.

Cat Scratch Fever - i still think probably town, i don't think the annoyance at the deepwolf theories read like scum annoyance. i think them going from "dann is extremely towny" to "it's dann/kage" as that becomes the popular read is the type of opportunistic fluidity that only comes from town or extremely experienced scum

May - kind of need her to be town for my sanity. i think she's never scum with DE. generally, i don't think she came into the game trying to make any friends and generally has not tried to town spew herself which I think is a primary goal of her scum game. willing to town bin and reassess later if needed.

I feel like the last paragraph of 203 and 215 were sorting Gimli though. It wasn't just a "you're scumreading me for unfair reasons" but a "you're scumreading for unfair reasons in a way that makes you scum", which I think is quite different

Quite different in the sense that DE wasn't just handwaving the case away to say those are bs reasons and you're bad and should feel bad

but DE was saying almost the opposite - that Gimli isn't actually that bad, so the bs reasons make Gimli scummy.

It's like how most people can more easily tell if someone is pushing them in good faith or not because they know their alignment

[Cat Scratch Fever]

if i was partners with duelist im pretty sure i would've just killed her and played the game solo by now

okay but then help me lim her because I still think she is scum

[Cat Scratch Fever]

i think the last paragraph of 203 is overly focused on a perceived inconsistency in gimli's posting

Ehat exactly is bad about my posts? Townreading Black? Townreading CSF? Not immediately locktowning you because you locktowned me? Bullshit.

and this string of questions in particular ending with "bullshit" i believe is scum indicative

I mean I guess it is focused on an inconsistency? But when you mindmeld a good deal with a player, it is natural to townread them as well so it makes sense

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I mean I guess I can read Fruit Mafia and metadive DragonEater. It'll have to wait though because that's like the last thing I want to be doing in my remaining 9 minutes of lunch break

and this was supposed to be a lazy game of mine @_@

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I didn't feel de earnestly scum reading gimli

Because he wasn't talking to gimli like gimli was scum? Ehhhhh I feel like I do that for weak scumreads though

[Cat Scratch Fever]

look, i have a PT with duelist and some stuff happened in there that made me not want to lim her today

I think it's possible she's scum but I'm much more interested in finding a potential partner today if that's the case

and if you think duelist is scum, I honestly think drew/dragon is a good candidate with how dragon kept soft pushing duelist and duelist basically locked dragon as town despite focusing an overwhelming amount of her posting on the issues she had with dragon

Spoiler:

...scum PT?

(sorry I couldn't resist)

I lowkey think Kage had this townread on Drew conditional on Gimli/Klick scum, so if/when Klick flips town, she can just retract that Drew townread. I feel like a partner would've found a more concrete reason for a buddy townread?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I should have picked a shorter name

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Is it like a scum impudence or a town impudence?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Yup, I want to know how you're reading dann

[Cat Scratch Fever]

But like, why tomorrow then? Just elim him today?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I must admit, this would be some pretty strange theater.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I must be lacking imagination or something, but I struggle to think of a scenario in which you benefit from a possibly scum pt neighbor alive and the benefit outweighs the benefit you get from voting scum out day 1 in a micro

In a Normal, at least

It makes sense as a ploy to have both live to day 2

But again, how it went down is very strange theater and doesn't feel like svs

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Do you still think Kage is scum, klick? Who's the fourth possible scum?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

It does feel difficult to get a sustained Kage wagon going. Every time someone votes, I get excited but then it peters out again

[Cat Scratch Fever]

if I'm honest Klick your play thus far is much more in line with what I expect from scum!you than town!you, you seem less relaxed (or like, more careful?) in your posting than I'm used to and I know you've talked about having anxiety playing scum in recent years

Then why is no one voting Klick. Idgi

I think this is his town game fwiw. If he is scum, it should get more obvious by days 2/3 because he tends to drop off later as scum whereas the opposite is true if he is town

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Idk if Kage and Dannflor are like complex friendly neighbor neighbors or something but it seems ok to let them cook for 1 day if they've soft claimed *something*
I don't think they will be able to flip a townie and then dictate 2 more eliminations outside themselves because they weren't like limmed today

I don't really feel good about any other elimination.
You would actually be my next preferred elimination I think, as I'm not very sure about you town.
But I'm also not sure you make this post as scum because it puts you in a riskier position (see the line right above this one)

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Would you like a hot cheeto?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

it feels like we're at an impasse or something

Jv are you still catching up?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I think Klick or Kage will be the Elim today.

Kage!

I don't get the sense that kage's posts have been solving. Do you?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Recent posts*

[Cat Scratch Fever]

For legal reasons, Im not serious

Quoting for ping

Judging by the vc, we really need your head in this game

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Klick, please do something towny: (

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Same tbh

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Klick, please do something towny: (

I thought you thought I was doing towny stuff!

Bella and I have just had TWO DIFFERENT blowouts on our way to Eastermeet. I wanted to post some this evening but that's probably not happening.

I do but towny for the ppl on your wagon :c

Have fun!

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I just realized blowout also means flat tire and not getting really drunk
I was thinking, damn Bella and klick go hard

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I roleblocked Dann last night, sorry Dann

VOTE: dannflor

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I guess we wait on cat to confirm that he is role blocker?

Yes I roleblocker

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'm not a full roleblocker

[Cat Scratch Fever]

What was the hood gambit?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

UNVOTE:

Sorry pooky

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Dann

[Cat Scratch Fever]

May how did your tournament go?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Why would scum no kill instead of killing hu tao? Scum no kill would be wild

Unless hu tao is scum and no killed

...I'm just going to wait for Datisi

[Cat Scratch Fever]

If scum really were informed and no killed, I will scream.

Mostly at Datisi

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Should we eliminate csf?

No

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I can't believe I fake claimed cop to both scum LMAO

LOL

GG, thanks Datisi