Open 906: AAAAAAHHHH I Ran out of Game Names!!! [Game Over]

[fireisredsir]

hiii

VOTE: jupiterxv

[fireisredsir]

i just woke up

same

[fireisredsir]

everyone knows this is the time that town wakes up

[fireisredsir]

fire is red

[fireisredsir]

It functions like one but technically it's the absence of all colors which pretty accurately describes my soul

town

[fireisredsir]

fire is red

I debated for a good 15 seconds if I should let you in. I think if your name was redisfiresir and people called you red then I would say yes

ive had at least one person call me red but that was when firebringer was also in the game and things got confusing

thats ok tho i don't need your color alliance i already am in the waking up at town o'clock alliance

[fireisredsir]

stealing this from jupiter

[fireisredsir]

stealing this from jupiter

what the fuck is wrong with you

[fireisredsir]

ok never doing that again

[fireisredsir]

so true

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: purplemango

[fireisredsir]

Spoiler: eyestrain warning

nvm i got it to work lol

go outside

touch grass

ok brb

[fireisredsir]

Monkey Jake?

it's a poe

why am i not in your poe

[fireisredsir]

its been a while since ive played with a list where im unfamiliar with most of the players

ive forgotten how to read people without meta knowledge

[fireisredsir]

ok zzz i looked at purplemango's past games and i think he actually had less trouble getting into the game as scum than as town

[fireisredsir]

it means post or eliminate
basically if you are in the POE and you do not post then you will be eliminated
it is a strategy against scum who intentionally post very infrequently to not attract attention (i.e. coasters)

It just means solve to me

hi

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: jacksonvirgo

[fireisredsir]

help im pocketed

[fireisredsir]

these reads seem fine to me

i think it's probably healthiest for the gamestate to pretend that halfasleep is town for now

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: kayjayqueue

[fireisredsir]

i could have stolen that and i didn't. you're welcome

[fireisredsir]

i think kay has done alignment indicative things

[fireisredsir]

Sad. I think Jups logic is wrong but I love the spirit. My thing with halfasleep is that that they post a bunch of reasoning, formatted and everything and when questioned about it further they then use their experience as a sort of buffer. They didn’t seem too worried about it before then. I can expand further but I’m walking as I type and don’t wanna smack into someone

i don't think it's terribly contradictary to be very engaged in my first game and also not confident in my thoughts. i mainly made the effortpost hoping to attract better players back to the thread with more useful posts. figured it would be fine even if i was being loudly wrong of it moved the game. it, uh, kinda worked i think?

this reasoning is why i said id rather treat you as town for now

my initial gut reaction to your posting was admittedly that it felt like scum working to get townread. and i do understand people having that read on it

but i think it's generally pro-town play and does help move the game forward which is necessary right now, so i think it's better to encourage that and revisit later if necessary

and since then i think the bit about the jake and jupiter reads being different because vibes is actually pretty towny

[fireisredsir]

i think ming feels towny

[fireisredsir]

i think ming feels towny

I wanted to say it feels like TvT but I was worried someone would call me scummy for it

i think it probably is yeah

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: kayjayqueue

i think kay has done alignment indicative things

i feel like you could elaborate on this sometime

i think at a minimum 121, 127, 140 come out differently depending on her alignment

i don't really have a strong conclusion as to which direction since im not very familiar with the player but gut lean is scummy

[fireisredsir]

ive gone back and forth though, i think it's also possible that they're town indicative

idk lol

[fireisredsir]

i think i changed my mind again

VOTE: jake the wolfie

[fireisredsir]

i want to flip jake and JV

[fireisredsir]

i want to flip jake and JV

Then vote me or Jackson. It's not, like, an infeasible goal for you to get one of those two axed.

yes im doing that and plan to continue doing that

i just wanted to let everyone else know

[fireisredsir]

- nothing he's done really feels like it's motivated by solving the game in a genuine way

- he reminds me a lot of the game i just played where he was scum, particularly in how he is approaching the game, what he's choosing to focus on, and how his reads develop

- this section of reactions feels manufactured and i dont believe that they come from a town mindset. they also feel likely to be partnered

Spoiler:

Jake wagon is silly

I wanted to say something controversial so I get heat on me, I need motivation

I’m indifferent to it

I do think I was wrong on halfasleep

Actually I take that back

Their jump onto Jake looks awful

Actually is it awful?

I wanna think on that

[fireisredsir]

the spam of thoughts in that specific way and in that specific context i think just comes from scum who wants to make it look like they're having a nuanced thought process but i don't think it would look like that if he had a green pm

[fireisredsir]

i also have reasons to townlean everyone else even if some of them are fairly minor and vibes-based

[fireisredsir]

- nothing he's done really feels like it's motivated by solving the game in a genuine way

- he reminds me a lot of the game i just played where he was scum, particularly in how he is approaching the game, what he's choosing to focus on, and how his reads develop

- this section of reactions feels manufactured and i dont believe that they come from a town mindset. they also feel likely to be partnered

Spoiler:

Jake wagon is silly

I wanted to say something controversial so I get heat on me, I need motivation

I’m indifferent to it

I do think I was wrong on halfasleep

Actually I take that back

Their jump onto Jake looks awful

Actually is it awful?

I wanna think on that

What would you consider a genuine way to solve?

That meta read is simply wrong, not saying it’s wrong because I’m town (even though I am) but wrong because it’s reading into who I am more than my alignment. I can have really enthusiastic games (most of my wolf games), I can have less of that (this game and that one) but once again proving meta is stupid as you don’t have the total picture. Anybody who has played with me as a wolf outside of that one game with hellbooks, yourself and I would know that it’s not my scum tell to any degree.

i delineated specific factors to make it clear that it wasn't about who you are or personality-based

i don't think the lack of enthusiasm or engagement is a meta scumtell

[fireisredsir]

Elaborate on it then. What part of my meta are you linking here.

particularly in how he is approaching the game, what he's choosing to focus on, and how his reads develop

i think the coming in swinging at a highposter counter to thread flow is a similar approach

so is delaying the explanations for reads

so is the general pattern of thoughts lacking internal solving motivation. it feels like you need to take time to come up with what your thoughts on the game are rather than just naturally having them


the meta is not the main reason for the read though so i don't really have interest in continuing to litigate it

[fireisredsir]

to be clear i think all of those things are scummy in isolation of this game, independent of anything else

they just also happen to match up with patterns of play that you had in another scumgame so i know that it's in range for you

[fireisredsir]

my townlean on purplemango is probably the weakest one

[fireisredsir]

there's no way that jake's on site for five years and has mafia knowledge YET PLAYS LIKE THIS AS TOWN???

Aaaaand he double downs.

I honestly don’t think you could have reacted worse than what you did, that’s hilarious

I agree. I thought worst case he instantly votes you for calling him out. But a self vote? Can honestly say I didn’t expect that.

don't really like this

[fireisredsir]

Why?

i think playing hype person and pumping up a conflict from the sidelines is generally scummy behavior

[fireisredsir]

Ah, now Jupiter. There's no need to show Uranus here. I believe you when you say you honestly didn't slip there.

this is worse tho

[fireisredsir]

i think that regardless of his alignment, jupiter's response in that moment wasn't the way that it was solely due to the in game situation

not really sure how much it's worth reading alignment into the emotion of it

[fireisredsir]

ok so you agree then cool

[fireisredsir]

ok so you agree then cool

Mhm, for what it’s worth I’m fairly confident you’re town

why

[fireisredsir]

sigh

[fireisredsir]

yea

[fireisredsir]

don't think the current direction of the thread is productive but not really sure what to do about it

[fireisredsir]

don't think the current direction of the thread is productive but not really sure what to do about it

Let’s get it back on track then. Who should we lim?

jake, probably

[fireisredsir]

what are y'all hoping to get out of this

[fireisredsir]

like just endlessly piling on is obviously not going to give any space to breathe

[fireisredsir]

i found it really frustrating to see multiple pages of piling on jupiter and snide comments and i think its understandable for him to feel backed into a corner and repeatedly attacked by the thread here

i think he's more likely to be town but more importantly i don't really think that any of this latest posting from y'all is useful in any way for sorting him or like game relevant at all

if you want to talk about insults or rudeness you can do it postgame

take a breath if you need to

[fireisredsir]

I think there's a real chance that Jackson/Kay/Jupiter are all town and scum either watched this episode from the sidelines or nudged it along subtly

i think jackson is townier than i thought before

not sure on kay

still think jake is scum

[fireisredsir]

I think there's a real chance that Jackson/Kay/Jupiter are all town and scum either watched this episode from the sidelines or nudged it along subtly

i think jackson is townier than i thought before

not sure on kay

still think jake is scum

I like all three, especially the jackson fella

what makes you townread jake?

[fireisredsir]

don't really have strong reads anywhere

lean town: ming, jupiter, halfasleep

nullish/conflicted: black, purple, jv

eh: kay

scummy: jake

[fireisredsir]

I’ve noticed that even when I give logical explanations for my actions as town, I still get pushed and my reasoning is ignored. Last time this happened, the person continuing to push me was scum. I’m going to keep that in mind going forward because it’s tiring to defend myself nonstop only to realize at the end of the game it’s just scum trying to keep me as an option. I don’t feel like I’ve left anything unanswered. I thoroughly explained myself and if that’s not good enough for you, I’m going to assume you have ulterior motives for tunneling on me.

scum are also capable of coming up with logical explanations for their actions

having a logical explanation for one's actions unfortunately does not make one town

it's still useful to provide them because the more content you have to engage with, the more there is to try to read off of, but yeah

this game is hard and town by definition don't know people's alignments, so while it can be frustrating, i don't think people still suspecting you after thoroughly explaining yourself makes them scum

[fireisredsir]

I actively do not want Kay or Jake out, you don’t want yourself or jup which are my preferences here. I’m willing to consolidate my vote elsewhere.

Fire and Black are you also willing? Ignoring my suspicions I don’t want this much dissonance D1.

im not really that interested in moving off jake rn

mango would be alright i guess

[fireisredsir]

i'd also like you to consider how being more concerned with defending yourself than anything else might look. you only have one vote (mine) on you i don't understand why you're this indignant about it.

Take a look at that thread and tell me I don’t need to be worried with defending myself. It’s ridiculous to try to tell me that nearly all the active players are agreeing with posts that sus me and I am too concerned with defending against that.

i'll be more clear: it's a team game. you can still win if you die. in my mind appearing more concerned with self-defense is likely to be a scumtell or possibly a PR slip. i would really hope you're not doing the latter

i agree w black that some people are naturally more defensive than others

[fireisredsir]

@fireisred is there anyone you'd like me to review particularly? I think I wanna skip pages 11-30 as I'm sure it was a lot of emotional posting that's frustrating and annoying to read.

mmm im sort of disengaged rn

i was basically where you are now at page 11 as i think you saw. somewhere between pages 11-30 i lost confidence on jackson and kay and they're both kind of middling for me now. it's possible that was correctly re-evaluating based on new info and it's possible that the initial instinct was more correct. im not sure

i still want to flip jake

[fireisredsir]

i don't think kay saying "he" has pocketed me is meaningful, it makes sense for her to jump to thinking of jackson there. there's a pretty clear dynamic going on there

[fireisredsir]

KJQ, if I uncross you from my townie list, will that be too annoying?

I kinda want to cause that 'he' felt a bit like you're TMIing on a partner

so, like, I'd flip both jake and virgo, and if that doesn't end the game I'd flip you but I still pretty much think you're a townie

pedit: I see, its virgo then.

VOTE: jacksonvirgo

The "he" being TMI seems like a stretch.

I wonder why

elaborate on your thought process behind this post please

[fireisredsir]

i want to hear it

[fireisredsir]

You can wait then fire

shouldn't be that hard, takes less time than you already spent avoiding it

[fireisredsir]

it's not a waste of time. im asking because i think, ironically, it feels like a perspective slip

[fireisredsir]

but doesn't really matter since the point was to get your genuine thoughts while you had a chance to show honest town process if you're town and now it's too late since you refused so w/e you do you ig

don't think it makes sense to respond in that way to someone you strongly scumread making that read on someone you think is their scum partner

it has a dismissiveness of the gimli point and an agreeableness to the thomith point that feels like it is coming from a perspective of seeing thomith as town and gimli as scum. it just isn't really a reaction to that post that i would expect to come from town believing that they're seeing two partners interacting

if you had explained your thought process behind it immediately then i would take that into consideration but im not really interested in that now

[fireisredsir]

also considering you strongly townread me apparently i don't know why you would be so disinterested in helping me find you as town if you are

[fireisredsir]

I believe they’re playing towards a specific agenda, duh. Didn’t know I had to speak the obvious jesus christ

i didn't ask you to explain what the post meant, i asked you to explain your thought process behind making it. because i wanted to see if there was any evaluation in there of "why would thomith scum be criticizing the scum agenda that i believe the scum team has"

[fireisredsir]

i literally did ask the question i wanted the answer to very directly

[fireisredsir]

i don't think black was obvtown tbf

[fireisredsir]

im fairly sure she has made a very similar post as scum before although i don't really want to go dig for it

the point more was that i don't think "pushing obvtown black" is that valid of a reason for suspicion here

[fireisredsir]

I’m not going to just trust someone’s meta read on someone else when it’s the person literally repping into the slot they are meta-reading. No matter the alignment, it’s exactly what you would say but I’d say even more so if you were trying to convince others you were town as scum over town as town. I think there’d be other things you could use to explain your town alignment that went beyond “trust me bro”.

i don't really think he was trying to convince people he was town with that

it was just a direct response to me saying i didn't think black wasn't obvtown

[fireisredsir]

mango is pretty coinflip for me rn which like yea sometimes those land on heads but i am not really gonna be that excited about flipping it

[fireisredsir]

i think kay has done alignment indicative things

I couldn't see anything in your ISO, but did you ever explain what "alignment indicative" things Kay has done?

266

it wasn't a very strong thought it was mostly a response to jupiter saying that he thought kay hadn't done anything AI yet

[fireisredsir]

i think kay has done alignment indicative things

I couldn't see anything in your ISO, but did you ever explain what "alignment indicative" things Kay has done?

266

it wasn't a very strong thought it was mostly a response to jupiter saying that he thought kay hadn't done anything AI yet

Gotcha, missed that post - let me take a look.
Has anything happened since that may have strengthened these thoughts?

it feels like my read on kay flips with every post she makes so i would say yes things have happened and no my thoughts are not straightened

currently i think her badgering jackson for their read explanation on me is towny but then maybe she'll make another post and ill change my mind again idk

[fireisredsir]

i think ming has felt townier to me and generally more engaged in solving the game when he's been here

[fireisredsir]

specifically i guess the difference for me is that mango has felt more like the focus has been on sharing reads and sometimes asking people to clarify reads whereas ming i felt has been applying actual pressure to people in a way that feels like town trying to solve

it's probable that there's also a playstyle difference between them which accounts for some of that, but i don't really see their ISOs as looking that similar

[fireisredsir]

specifically i guess the difference for me is that mango has felt more like the focus has been on sharing reads and sometimes asking people to clarify reads whereas ming i felt has been applying actual pressure to people in a way that feels like town trying to solve

it's probable that there's also a playstyle difference between them which accounts for some of that, but i don't really see their ISOs as looking that similar

i guess there's not a ton of it but early on he felt like he was using votes and pressure to try to get things moving, and 249 felt like a town pov to me

[fireisredsir]

id like to see more from him especially now that the game came to life a bit with replacements but i think i haven't really seen anything from mango that has stood out to me as feeling towny, while i have from ming even if there isn't much

[fireisredsir]

I want to say that I also believe ming is a rl friend of Jupiter’s and because of that might have felt more comfortable participating at the beginning of the game where purple may not have. Having someone familiar around can be a game changer.

along these lines is this is why im not that excited about wagoning purple, it feels like punishing someone for not finding their footing when it's automatically going to be harder for them to find their footing and that may not be related to alignment

and as i said a while ago i think they felt a little more lost/disconnected in their town game than in their scumgame so i don't think it's a scumtell

[fireisredsir]

im not sure how sold i am on the case but at least im pretty sure this is town!gimli

[fireisredsir]

im not sure how sold i am on the case but at least im pretty sure this is town!gimli

btw

do you think virgo/KJQ is ever a thing? I think defending your partner strongly is a decent approach to micros, but unsure how much of their interactions feel svs

eh

i don't think it's impossible but i agree it doesn't really feel SvS. i've sort of thought that one of them is scum pocketing the other for most of the game but that's not necessarily always true either

[fireisredsir]

im not sure how sold i am on the case but at least im pretty sure this is town!gimli

how confident are you on town!jupiter?

not 100% by any means but i think he was pretty towny

i don't reallllly want to go into analysis of the emotional aspect, i think a lot of that was independent of alignment and came from other factors and i could clearly see beforehand that the dominoes were lining up for that to happen (maybe i should have been more forceful about trying to direct things elsewhere idk), but there's some elements of it that i think are more likely to be town

the rest of the play also mostly feels like it's coming from a town mindset to me

im not gonna like clear the slot for the rest of the game but im not interested in looking there today

[fireisredsir]

you're still voting jake. is that still your top scumread?

i don't exactly feel great about it but i haven't really seen anything towny there

he hasn't rolled scum in like 3 years as far as i could find but i think that trying to be continually present in the thread and appearing unconcerned with the game is just a personality trait

and i don't feel like his ventures into playing the game feel particularly like they have a real organic thought process and real reads behind them

[fireisredsir]

why do you think that gimli would take this approach as scum

[fireisredsir]

why do you think that gimli would take this approach as scum

To not keep attacking people that are vocal, to open up paths to pivot to literally any single person they want without damaging their progression. Things like this.

Is it unconventional? Sure.
Does it mean they’re town? Not necessarily

him being town is the vastly more likely explanation for his approach here and if you're town you are very unreasonably tunneled

[fireisredsir]

not sure what the implication here is. i'd be very surprised if both of them were scum, personally.

I'm strong TRing KJQ at this point, but when she posts about virgo I get weirded out by the tone and strength of the read.

virgo is doing even worse at it cause he is pointing at the most NAI stuff KJQ wrote and calling it towny.

I don't think they're svs, I have explored that path yesterday and thought their interactions were too unlikely.

i don't think that being weirded out by the tone with which they post about each other is something that should be taken as a sign of alignment

[fireisredsir]

varies a lot, this is closer to the longer end of the range for a micro day 1

we should probably try to consolidate fairly soon, long day 1s are not particularly healthy for the game

[fireisredsir]

varies a lot, this is closer to the longer end of the range for a micro day 1

we should probably try to consolidate fairly soon, long day 1s are not particularly healthy for the game

hmm. i guess i can imagine conflicting ideas on this. is it better to get scum to post as much as possible to work with later or to cut the noise at some point? idk
where would we consolidate if it was only up to you? still jake or are there other options for you?

i used to always want days to last as long as possible for Maximum Information but yeah at a certain point it's just noise and it becomes harder and harder to dig through things

i actively won't vote for gimli, halfasleep, thomith

i don't particularly want to vote for kay

kinda iffy on ming and purple and am ok with wagons there

would like to vote for jake or jackson

[fireisredsir]

Quickly skimmed over the last few pages, and my overall thoughts are that all three of the people I mentioned above are towny, particularly halfasleep, who has seemed especially analytic (rather than popcorning)

i think that this as a fairly quick follow up to listing the three names does make it evident that he isn't setting up to push them

[fireisredsir]

it could come from scum either way though

[fireisredsir]

I don't mind if we take our time with this game as this is probably the hardest game I've played this year

this is kind of a wild statement lol

[fireisredsir]

ok it does seem like there's no chance i can get anyone on my first choice, kay, today. it looks like consolidating at least three votes (between me, fire and gimli) on either jackson or ming is possible here. i think i'm more inclined to want to flip jackson right now.

what makes you prefer jackson?

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: jacksonvirgo

[fireisredsir]

ima let y'all cook but im around if you wanna ask me anything or whatever

[fireisredsir]

it is definitely true that i have become less engaged with this game and i think there's fairly evident reasons for that and also it isnt something that is more likely to happen when im scum

gimli is correct that my post about his take being wild was unrelated to his alignment. i just thought it was funny bc this is not the kind of game i would generally describe as hard personally

[fireisredsir]

gimli is town because the path that he has taken in approach to this game is so roundabout and unnecessary and all over the place and there's literally no reason to do most of it as scum. there were so many easier paths

i categorically disagree with the point that he has a goal and an agenda to push and builds a case around that considering he has no clear cohesive goal or agenda, and his direction has shifted constantly, several times in ways that would absolutely not improve his position if he were scum

i think that there is scum in the people pushing him almost certainly but there's also town, maybe 2 town, who just see him post a lot and be confident and think maybe he's trying to be manipulative and take control. i think that this is kind of fair and i understand having that gut reaction, but i think that if you stop and really try to come up with a scum motivation behind his direction here it will be fairly difficult without putting some blinders on and reading selectively

[fireisredsir]

There isn’t scum in Jake/Kay. You say there’s no scum in Gimli and obv yourself. I’m not a wolf. It for sure isn’t halfasleep now. Unless the scum is specifically in ming/purple/thom one of us is wrong. That pool Is almost entirely PoE aside from Thom.

i understand why you would townread kay but i don't know why you are so confident on jake town

[fireisredsir]

all good

[fireisredsir]

hope your head feels better

[fireisredsir]

@halfasleep, for further context, 983 came right after gimli did a dive on purplemango and towncased him which i think was an incredibly unproductive move for scum!gimli to pull there, which is why i had that reaction to it

that was basically the point that pushed me over the edge into thinking he was very likely town, prior to that i was still slightly wary

[fireisredsir]

I’m not self-centred enough to just assume I’m never wrong so I’m looking elsewhere.

I’d rather die than jake/kay.

like . . .

i don't get jake being so off the table that he isn't even in the "look elsewhere" pile

[fireisredsir]

i agree that gimli kinda does that jumping off other people's takes sometimes, i don't see it as scum-indiciative though

[fireisredsir]

the thing is that if gimli was scum he could have gotten largely townread and also flipped a town by now

it really wouldn't be that difficult in this game. i believe that he would know how to do that. the one instance of meta ill use here is to say that i think his wolf game isn't generally to overcomplicate things

so either he's flopping around for no reason because he decided he likes wasting time and running in circles or he's town trying to solve. for now i will take occams razor

[fireisredsir]

for instance, let's say he's partnered with me or halfasleep or thom as proposed. the three of us are experiencing very little pressure, and whoever he's with, together we can help shape and control the game

replacing in and setting himself up to antagonize the t/t jackson/kay social duo is a horrible idea. it locks in their scumreads on him and suddenly he's fighting a huge uphill battle when he literally could have just not done that

he can just buddy up to them and appease and immediately have 40% of the game on his side, while having tons of room to direct things towards miselims on purple, ming, or jake, which should be very easy to accomplish especially with a well-positioned partner helping him out

there's only 9 players in this game and every relationship that you establish is incredibly valuable as scum. burning bridges and continually prodding in new directions and potentially upsetting new people because you can't settle on one direction to push is just very counterproductive to scum win condition. but it does match up fairly well with what town would look like trying to solve

[fireisredsir]

jackson i know you think that i am trying to maintain the division in town which is kind of fair bc i was annoyed at the game and didn't really do much to try to heal it

but i am fairly confident in gimli town, and i know that mathematically there has to be at least 1 town in kay/jackson/jake, and gamestate read i think there's probably two

if that town can find gimli as town then suddenly this game becomes much more playable and solvable. so currently that is my goal

i do additionally believe there is probably 1 scum in that group of 3 but i don't particularly care about them right now, id rather try to talk to whoever is town there and hopefully they're open to listening

[fireisredsir]

He was originally townreading me when he replaced in but shifted when he realized my scumread didn’t disappear. It felt like he was trying to get townread, realized it wouldn’t work and changed to scumreading me to try to get who he could on his side. Maybe it’s “counterproductive” to keep changing reads but it doesn’t mean it’s not AI, and by that, I don’t mean town.

he started prodding at you in his 8th post which was less than an hour after his first content post

that would be a pretty quick shift based on that narrative i think

[fireisredsir]

- if i've learned anything in this game so far it's that i may be even more annoying than i thought i was -

fwiw i think your posting has been very measured and reasonable and pleasant and not annoying at all, if you are indeed new then welcome and i hope to see you around in more games

this is a pocket attempt

[fireisredsir]

i was just going to joke that you were scum because you seconded the pocket attempt and you beat me to it

foiled again. we'll get em next time

[fireisredsir]

I also don't think scum would get into this situation, it feels like too much of a risk for them

which situation/who are you referring to here?

[fireisredsir]

i think that ming's activity falloff isn't really a convincing reason to suspect him or to townread him since it could easily happen as either alignment

[fireisredsir]

jake also probably

[fireisredsir]

ming, are you caught up? do you have reads to share

[fireisredsir]

ok sure

VOTE: awesomeming

e-1

[fireisredsir]

dragon wtf go to bed

[fireisredsir]

oh ok he said "back to sleep" nevermind

[fireisredsir]

im trying to decide how i feel about ming voting gimli after jackson says he's town for not doing self-pres

i definitely feel something

[fireisredsir]

yea i guess so

i think at a minimum it makes less sense for him to be partnered with you lol

[fireisredsir]

is it too late to flip jake

[fireisredsir]

:<

[fireisredsir]

sighhhhhhh

i hate mason games that i don't realize are mason games

my bad

[fireisredsir]

please dont be mad at me, fire

this game has been absolutely hell for me

this has nothing to do with what I did in dance party game, there I was just kinda not knowing how to play mafia or whatever

this is very different

is fine im not mad i understand the difficult position

[fireisredsir]

This kill comes from someone specific. I can’t think of who yet but one in fire/asleep/thom.

this is likely correct btw

[fireisredsir]

maybe it's time to stop pretending

[fireisredsir]

i think thominth is coming across as uninformed here

if he's scum he's doing a very good job at faking

[fireisredsir]

i think thominth is coming across as uninformed here

if he's scum he's doing a very good job at faking

No comment, where are you at right now?

considering possible worlds

[fireisredsir]

genuinely no idea how to sort between purple/ming but i think it's exactly one of them

[fireisredsir]

i think both are believable to me

[fireisredsir]

yea nw i got it

im leaning purple i think as well but want to read more closely

[fireisredsir]

okay yea this game is probably easy actually

[fireisredsir]

purple fits better

[fireisredsir]

The fact that 2 people in the "scum that caught the soft" PoE that was suggested have suggested voting Purple, is making me not want to vote purple.

well most of us are town

[fireisredsir]

i think my current gamesolving confidence won't last because it never does but i feel pretty good about it right now

[fireisredsir]

Halfasleeps vibe has completely shifted

to be fair the entire thread suddenly turned against her

i would expect her vibe to shift if she were town here as well

[fireisredsir]

i think it would be pretty demotivating as either alignment

if she is town and correct on her strongest read of kay being scum then this is probably a town loss

[fireisredsir]

once again i don't think the endless piling on is, like, useful at all, but maybe that's just me idk

can solve the game without it being so vicious

[fireisredsir]

pressure is useful i guess maybe im just soft

[fireisredsir]

i just think the vibe currently gives zero room for halfasleep to play the game or show herself as town if she is and that makes me uncomfortable and also just feel bad i guess

i don't think anything is 100% here even if im relatively confident. and if it was 100% then it's also like not useful lol

[fireisredsir]

doesn't matter nevermind no point

[fireisredsir]

ok yea hello im back to like low confidence levels

still fine to go w the solve in whichever order i still think it's most likely

[fireisredsir]

do i have to like case anyone

i don't right

we're above such trifles

[fireisredsir]

im lazy

[fireisredsir]

i feel bad ignoring purple's efforts i guess. sorry will look through stuff in a bit

[fireisredsir]

there's like a specific reason why i think you would have caught a soft and if it's wrong it's like very unfortunate but i also think it's probably better not to talk about it too much unfortunately

[fireisredsir]

i actually wasn't making the assumption at all that scum was on the ming wagon. what posts gave you the impression people were thinking that?

[fireisredsir]

 i understand the assumption that it would come from me/fire/thomith on the logic that we were on the ming wagon and scum might not want to kill within their own assumed voting block. 

i don't really understand where this came from at all

[fireisredsir]

VC 1.17

Votecount 1.17

awesomeming327 (4):

Gimli, Thomith, halfasleep, fireisredsir

[E-1]

Gimli (4):

KayJayQueue, JacksonVirgo, Jake The Wolfie, awesomeming327

[E-1]

Not Voting (1):

Purplemango

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in

(expired on 2024-03-26 01:07:06).

Mod Notes

I made a double VC cause I'm going back to sleep now so I won't be able to make one later. Goodnight! And also goodnight to Americans, surprisingly.

I'm not sure that this VC makes sense in a Purple/halfasleep world?
Why would either not hammer in this scenario, as they would know both wagons are town?

why would they hammer? the wagons aren't going to pivot onto scum

[fireisredsir]

i actually wasn't making the assumption at all that scum was on the ming wagon. what posts gave you the impression people were thinking that?

This kill comes from someone specific. I can’t think of who yet but one in fire/asleep/thom.

jackson said this before pivoting into talking about the 'soft'. is there another obvious connection between these three players that i'm missing?

id be interested to know if that's what jackson meant i guess

i had the exact same thought as him as soon as i saw the kill but it didn't have anything to do with the ming wagon so i assumed it wasn't about that

[fireisredsir]

well not as soon as i saw it

about 45 seconds later

[fireisredsir]

if i had made the connection immediately then that implies that im scum who was unsurprised by the kill

there was a thought process involved gotta be clear on that

[fireisredsir]

hi sorry for kinda dipping for most of yesterday

and sorry for not pushing halfasleep d1. i felt like town was so fractured that even if my read was right, pushing it would just make things worse. also a big part of me just genuinely really wanted her to be town. she played well imo, the nightkill just really clicked things into place

good job to everyone for finding each other and landing there

[fireisredsir]

i do think the level one interpretation of the self-hammer is that town is going to be heading down the wrong direction after this

however it's also very possible that it was a last-ditch effort to make us think that she was content to be limmed

i think it's pretty high chance that i will still want to go purple here but i don't want to rush through it

[fireisredsir]

If her partner wasn’t purple, why didn’t she just vote him with us, he would’ve been easy to get to a hammer and it would’ve made me look bad yet again and she could’ve pushed me with all her might today.

that's true yeah

it's possible she would be concerned that her voting purple would have scared people off since everyone was partner reading them

but i think if she had a partner who wasn't purple then they would have joined the purple push which makes me think it's pretty unlikely to be ming

[fireisredsir]

i think if purple is wrong i would look at thom next

[fireisredsir]

especially with a flip confirming it, i do think both halfasleep and purple sounded extremely caught in response to 3 people suddenly solving it as being the two of them at like the exact same time

it's a really surprising thing to have to deal with especially since halfasleep in particular likely thought she would be coming into the day in a good position

[fireisredsir]

im generally wary of the easy answer and second guess a lot but it probably is the easy answer

[fireisredsir]

genuinely no idea how to sort between purple/ming but i think it's exactly one of them

well that's awkward since I townread purple

UNVOTE: awesomeming327

ok going to bed but ming is probably town here actually. y'all can stop listening to me lol.

this is just such a wildly counterintuitive sequence if partnered

props to them i guess if they pulled it off

[fireisredsir]

And you’re not entertaining the possibility of purple being scum at all? Because that would definitely disprove your theory that scum is pushing purple. Plus fire isn’t even voting purple, only 2 of us are.

Fire was still heavily advocating for the execution though.

Since if both fire/Jackson are town, that leaves only me in the PoE, due to me not being convinced that halfasleep should be there, I feel like there is a very very small chance that scum aren't advocating for purples lim in some way.

Purple could be scum. If purple is scum though, I feel like he is being bussed.

this post is also difficult to make in that position if partnered, i think, but to a lesser degree

[fireisredsir]

ok i wanna say sorry first up for coming into the thread so negative yesterday. wasn't called for regardless of my feelings on the gamestate at the time.]

i'm gonna backread things over again to try and get some thoughts together on the assumption that the scumteam is probably one of:

kay/purple
kay/thomith
thomith/purple

i don't think i'm crossing out ming as hard as i am fire and jackson (gg if one of you has successfully bamboozled me i guess) but it's hard to see why scum-ming comes in posting what he just did instead of just hopping on the convenient purple wagon (even in the world where purple is a scum-partner tbh). it seems more and more like i ended up tunnelled on ming exactly like i said i wasn't gonna back in d1 so, uh, mea culpa. so that's where i'm at currently. hopefully updates when i can get some reading done.

this does feel like halfasleep realizing she messed up earlier when she voted ming instead of purple and trying to course correct but it's too late. i think that if anything was probably the path out of here

[fireisredsir]

I think I'm ruling out ming for sure, otherwise halfasleep would have been bussing them for a while, and idk if she realistically needed to.

I want to trust Jackson and rule out Kay, and just admit I was just wrong about my read on both of them.

The only reason I'm even considering fire a little bit is because of the self hammer making me think Purple is too easy..

that is fair

to be honest i have no clue why jackson ruled me out so quickly. it may have just been the mindmeld at the start of d2 because as soon as i saw the kill i knew he was mason and we were solving from the same pov

if it helps (it probably doesn't) i think if it's me/halfasleep we can run through this game a lot easier, and we set up jackson to be more of a consensus townread at end of day 1 so that we can safely nightkill him without people knowing whether it was a mason hunt or just killing someone who is difficult to push

no disrespect to halfasleep because again i think she played really well in general, but killing jake instead of jackson was a massive mistake and there's no way i would ever advocate for it

even if somehow we were 100% sure jake was mason but weren't sure on the second (which i think makes no sense bc again within like 5 minutes of seeing the kill i knew the partner was jackson), it's worth taking the chance on the jackson kill anyway because if jackson/kay are t/t then you absolutely need to break that up with a nightkill because they're going to be playing as a block

[fireisredsir]

i don't think id ever let my well positioned partner get elimmed while gathering no towncred from her death all while just vaguely subtweeting at my secret scumread ive been harboring on her and never even directly saying it lol

i also think my solving day 1 pretty clearly accidentally found the pairing of players who were informed of each others alignment, they just happened to be town

the masons being in the poe but unclaimed is a huge issue for scum because it makes nightkills really annoying, and so if i were scum who noticed the masons, me and halfasleep had a good amount of control over the gamestate and we could have pushed the poe into a different place, or maybe forced a claim. instead i just did not consider the possibility of masons existing here and so i kept pushing jackson/jake

[fireisredsir]

i guess i should acknowledge that the only world where killing jake is not a mistake is if it's halfasleep/kay, but to consider that team existing would take so many leaps i think

they would have taken such a weird approach to like, everything

[fireisredsir]

i think if jackson got brought to elo he's smart enough to know why he's still alive

so he has to die eventually

i agree it's very unlikely for other reasons though but i think it's good to consider all possibilities since im always afraid of things being too easy

[fireisredsir]

eh

i don't think im changing my mind that we need to flip here there's not really a point in deliberating

VOTE: purplemango

[fireisredsir]

btw @halfasleep

after jake kill i checked iso, scrolled for two minutes, saw this and was like. oh.

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Who wants to ride the Jackson train? Now that Fire mentions it, this play reminds me of the last time I played with him.

immediate kneejerk to being called partnered?

You're right to say that we're partnered. Some might even say too right.

the fact that it was direct response to you wasn't a main reason that i thought you were scum but it certainly didn't help when i was already in that "ok i was scumreading masons, flip the game upside down" mindset

i started to get the feeling you hadn't actually seen it when i made 1653. kinda tragically unlucky with the kill bc i don't think everyone would have turned without it. was well played regardless

also gg thanks for modding dragon