The Werewolves of Millers Hollow (Game Over)

[Juls]

Vote: Jahudo for Mayor

I find him to be a pretty smart cookie.

[Juls]

Today you must elect a Mayor by majority vote. Do this by posting Vote PLAYER for Mayor. You may unvote this if you wish. The Mayor's vote will be worth two for the rest of the game. Should the Mayor die, they may choose their successor. The day will not end until both a Mayor has been elected and a player has been lynched.

Anyone in doubt of my credentials to hold this prestigious post, just think:
Better make me Mayor today than later, when i might be afforded opportunity to cause SERIOUS damage. xD

I read the mod's post to mean you would cause "damage" as long as you are in the game. In fact, maybe we should wait a little while before making this decision because it does effect the game for more than just today.

Unvote Mayor

[Juls]

[No, why did you vote him for Mayor? 0.o'

Ugh, im such a dumbass. Whats a vampire?

1. If we want to lynch X today or test the theory that it just won't work (I don't think Unlynchables necessarily have to force a no-lynch if he is telling the truth as town or scum unlynchable), we need to have a mayor. If he doesn't die and is still mayor then he'll be a prime night kill target anyway (I'm guessing there are multiple killing factions because most large games have them).

2. MS wiki article on Vampire : It's basically the Judas role but with a werewolf theme it seems even more likely to be present. It doesn't change my opinion of X's claim, actually, because now that he's claimed unlynchable there might be a killing faction that would get him at night anyway.

Our issue is whether we get rid of X now or wait until tomorrow and if he's still alive we have to wonder why.

Also I'm probably not the best mayor candidate. I like to think I'm pro-town when I'm town but I've been wrong about who's scum alot of times. In fact, that's my meta as town.

You think Xtoxm may be a vampire but still want to lynch him? And you wanted him to be mayor (as of this post)? I don't follow your logic. Plus, I don't like you saying that you have a "meta" of not finding scum. I have seen you play very well as town...granted its been in marathons but that is even a harder scenario for town. I have also seen you play very well as scum. Can you link some games where you sucked as town? It seems to me you are setting yourself to take part in mislynches.

Vote: BM for Mayor

Unvote, Vote Jahudo for Lynch

[Juls]

Do you think a vampire could make themselves a target this early in the game? One that wants to be scum more than town I would think, but they have the unique opportunity to switch sides when one begins to gain leverage and day 1 is not the day you can tell that sort of thing. That's why I'm thinking it's possibly SK, because he did not handle being SK well last time (Mini 695).

Yes I do. That is why I am baffled as to why you would want to have him as mayor.

[Juls]

Also, FoS: Percy Seems a little too early to scum hunt issin't it?

No. I don't think it is ever too early.

I will only cast my vote (worth 2 as mayor) only when there is at least 1/4 of town (excluding myself) urging me to vote.

Removing yourself from all accountability for your actions? Whoever is elected mayor should do what they think is best. Further, it is likely at this point in the game that almost 1/4 of the people are indeed scum. So based on your proposal scum could drive the mayor.

[Juls]

Re: Juls post 99 – Do you think he could be Vampire because he wants to be scum now, or do you have another reason why he might be a vampire?

Your first question assumes he is a vampire. But if we were going with that assumption then his motivation would be to get lynched and flip town. Then, he could be scum as a "confirmed townie". If he is the vampire then that is what I think his initial motivations were. I do not have any other reason to think he is a vampire but the idea that he is a Vampire makes sense.

Can you explain to me now, why, if you thought he could be a vampire would you want him to be mayor?

Guys. I want everyone to post their current opinion on the following question, be it based on gut, meta, whatever.

Do you feel that Xtoxm is lying to us?

I think Xtoxm likes to gambit. I have seen him do it as scum and town. I also think he likes to claim early. I have seen him do it as both scum and town. So, do I think he is lying about being unlynchable? No. Do I think he is giving us the whole story? No.

[Juls]

I have caught up to the top of this page (page 8). I still need to read this page but I have to go now. Before I do though, I want to:

Unvote Mayor: BM, Vote Mayor: The Fonz

I know you don't want it but I think you are the most protown at this point. I don't think BM is necessarily anti-town but I like the way The Fonz is playing.

[Juls]

I don't think a risk of a scum player is as bad as an illogical town player. Because the level of scrutiny that player will be under might cause them to be lynched for bad votes. I would rather the most protown and most logical players to be mayor.

[Juls]

Submitting for the record some Xtoxm meta:

He was town and claimed mafia.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 951#858951

He was scum and claimed mafia

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 475#980475

He was scum and claimed scum

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 53#1067853

He claimed mason relatively early w/ a preplanned gambit (see second link)

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=212
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=215

This was a shoot-style game...I replaced out and don't remember the exact context but I remember he claimed something different about his gun early...he was SK

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10997


So, this is why I say he likes to gambit and he likes to claim. I think I am forgetting one but can't recall the game. Maybe the UPick in marathon that never gained traction?

[Juls]

My guess is he wanted to be lynched for some reason. I don't know what that reason is though? That is where I am not experienced enough to judge.

[Juls]

I am catching up now...I got bogged down in some other games. Expect a post from me tonight.

[Juls]

Please don't kill him until I am finished rereading, I don't want to waste my post.

On page 15....

[Juls]

That first link shows that he's not averse to messing with his side to get out of games he doesn't want to play- so the "innocent" thing could be true, but not the "unlynchable" thing.

You think he was wanting to get out of a game that he joined? That makes next to zero sense. If this was post 1000 I could buy it but it was like his first post.

Sure, but worst of all is scum as mayor elected day 1 and then staying mayor all game. I don't know why people keep acting like that's impossible, it certanly is not.

I agree with this statement 100%. It would be very easy for scum to stay alive the duration of the game. We get ONE chance to vote the mayor, then, the person we vote is control of where it goes from there. A scum could give it to a person who thinks one of his scum buddies is being protown, or a power-role who would be more advantagous to town if alive but under extra scrutiny could easily be lynched. Holy crap this is a no brainer! Give it to the most logical, most protown player because that player will pass it to the second most logical, protown player and so on and so forth. Everyone suggesting a scum mayor is earning major scum points from me.

@ Juls: OK, you have determined that his meta is false-claiming. Do you want a player like that sticking around for too long.

No, but I am in more of the "lets see what happens in night" camp.

The mayor won't be the one manipulating, it'll be his scumbuddies or just plain simple opportunistic scum.

Very good zwets! You get a cookie!!!


By the way, I'm going to get this out of the way now because I doubt it will change as I continue to read...

Unvote, Vote: Firestarter

Electing a scum as mayor makes NOOOOOO sense. I am glad I am reading this all at once and saving myself two days of anger and instead being angry all at once in one hour. I am not stupid, I understand the reasons that you THINK are good for a scum mayor, but they just aren't good.

But I tried hard to make this method as transparent as possible, and I came up against a brick wall.

Because the proposal was BAD. Maybe you were trying to think outside of the box? That's fine but you should also recognize when the safe route is more advantagous. You can't get mad at others for disagreeing with you or thinking you are scummy for your ideas. Well, I guess you can but you can't stop them from voting you for it. Ironically, the biggest problem isn't that you proposed a bad plan but that you spent 2 pages (and counting) pushing it and introducing unneeded confusing into a pretty simple process.

-----------

He's not forcing anything, Yos. Opportunistic much?

Why are you defending Xtoxm so much? I could understand if he had done something protown up to this point but he has done NOTHING.

That being said, zwets accused Mike of rolefishing earlier (which I disagreed with), but I do find this to be rolefishing:

]

I've said it at least three times already: DON'T LYNCH XTOXM YET

Do you have any reasons at all? We can't just take your word for it.

think Xtoxm is trying too hard to GET lynched. This automatically makes me want to *not* lynch him. He's lurking enough to piss people off and this is exactly what I would do if I wanted to get lynched, not if I wanted to prove myself as town and lynchable.

^This! We have more than enough to go on today. What is the harm in letting Xtoxm (millar) be the D2 plan if we still don't feel good about him after night. It's not like the game is going to end after N1.

Why is everyone assuming we have a vig? Nobody has claimed vig, and we have no evidence that one exists in the game at the moment. Thus, we have to assume there isn't one for now, and in that case, we have to lynch Xtoxm.

And what is the harm of waiting one night to see if it happens without having a vig come out and show themself in public? What is the urgency in killing him?

Yes Reading through I want to "test" this UnLynchable that X has put out there so I will

unvote vote : xtomx

Really? 409 posts into the game and THIS is all you've got?


-----------------

Given the recent millar claim, I want to know more before I hammer. You can tell us "what X was now"...and wtf...I wanted to make my post, not reread in night! I wanted my information to go INTO night with everyone.

Unvote Mayor. Vote Yos Mayor

I still find Fonz townie but it looks like Yos has a better shot and he is high on my list. I wish others would follow suit because I think Yos has been better than BM.

[Juls]

Wow you are just as charming as X.

[Juls]

If you are town millar then vote Yos mayor.

[Juls]

Lets chooe a mayor first...

[Juls]

Are you sure of that?

[Juls]

Juls, would you like to be mayor?

Not particularly but I will take it if given to me. I don't have a lot of confidence in myself as town as hard as I try. There are two people in this game who can attest to my scumdar being off too often (you and Ztife). My honest comments on my play are on my wiki for all to see.

[Juls]

I would say give it to

BM,

Yosa, or Fonz.

[Juls]

I am at about post 640 in catching up for D2. I will likely post something tomorrow though as I have another game in the queue to post in.

[Juls]

Well, at least we got a werewolf. Finally.

Still thinking about testing Mufasa's claim. I think we should hear the females out, see if they're aware of any role that might help them.

Well, I haven't caught up but I have always heard the person who speaks up in this manner (congratulating town) is usually scum. Who did you replace? OP is not up-to-date

(@mod: read previous sentence)

[Juls]

Inching closer to being caught up but trying to keep up with current topics too.

I concur. In fact, it's one of my most trusted scumtells. Vote: Kaiveran.

Can you give me some examples where you saw scum do this or where you did this yourself as scum? I know I brought it up but if it is one of your most trusted scumtells surely you won't have trouble providing me an example or two?

[Juls]

Don't have time to post today. Tomorrow for sure. Just so people doesn't worry about inactivity and such.

Still not caught up but I think this is a decent place to put my vote for now.

Vote Kaiveran

and an

FoS: dramonic

. I wasn't crazy about Firestarter on D1 and about half way through D2 I haven't seen anything good out of him. This may change after I finish my read though.

[Juls]

Ugh...Finally survived the reread of D2. That was difficult. There is nothing that kills motivation to participate than sitting out an entire day. It's such a bad event for a game that can last months. Sitting around a table is one thing but that was insane.

OK...first things first. I have the game of Werewolves of Millers Hollow and the expansion pack, New Moon. The mod may have taken some liberties but here are the actual roles that have been revealed as they are stated in the game:

Village Idiot

If the village votes against her, the village idiot turns over her card. At this instant, the Villagers comprehend their error and they immediately pardon her. From now on, she continues to play, but she has lost the right to vote. What would the vote of an idiot be worth? She therfore does not get to vote again in this game.
Notes:
If the werewolves devour her, the Village Idiot is eliminated.
If the idiot was the sheriff of the village, the role of sheriff is lost for good.
If the hunter shoots the idiot, the idiot is eliminated.

Seer

a.k.a The Fortune Teller (I think?)
Each night, the fortune teller can see the true personality of one player. The fortune teller chooses which player this will be. The fortune teller must help the other Townsfolk to correctly identify the Werewolves without discovered out by the Werewolves, thus making him/herself a target.

Hunter

If the hunter is killed by the Werewolves or lynched by the Townsfolk, he/she can retailiate. With his/her dying breath, the hunter will shoot, thus eliminating any one other player.

Witch

This townsperson knows how to make two very powerful potions. The first is a healing potion, whcih can be used to resurrect a player that is killed by a werewolf. The second is a potion used during the night to eliminate one player. Each potion can only be used once per game. The Witch can use either potion on him/herself if he/she wishes. The Witch can, if he/she wishes use the poison at night and then follow that up with the healing potion the next day. If this character is used you can have an evening where either nobody dies or where one player dies or where 2 players die.

The rest are obvious (Werewolf, Simple Villager). Other possible roles are:
Thief, Cupido, Little Girl, Sheriff, The Elder, The Scapegoat, The Defender, The Piper. I can define others if requested but I am sure they are on the internet somewhere.

===================
Now, coming into D3, my general comments on D2 is that I am suspicious of Ztife, Dramonic (via Firestarter), and mostly Kaiveran. Ztife mostly from D1 with his mayor plan (will only vote with 1/4 votes as mayor, wanting to be mayor, and his joke votes after conversation was well underway). Dramonic/Firestarter partially stems from D1 conversation (wanting a scum mayor) and lurking out D2. But mostly, Kaiveran for his interactions with Percy. One particular post that stood out to me is Percy's iso 28 where he lobs some softballs Kaiveran's way. He was ruthless up to that point.

Mufasa's actions on D2 were I get the feeling unnecessary (for soft claiming) but I got the impression he was town.

Now on to D3....

Kaiveran 936: Makes comment about catching a wolf. I see this as a scumtell for congratulating town. I don't like it.

MikeSC6 943: I wish I could put my finger on exactly what is off about MikeSC6 to me but I have consistently got a scum vibe from him. I really hate I can't present harder evidence. Here were my notes on him from D1 (and a little form D2)

strange vibe from him. Post 97. Is he posting just to post?
Fonz pointed out that MikeSC voted with long explanation which seems scummy.
-Another strange vibe from him regarding Xtoxm. Says "so he likes to false claim, why?)
-611 defending jahudo, called V.I.

Post 943 feels sorta the same. The "maybe this", "maybe that" is troublesome. It's like planting seeds without really taking charge of his own opinions. I dunno.

FoS: MikeSC6

...can't really put my finger on it but maybe someone else can help me with that.

Battle Mage 946: Kinda weak reason to vote Yos. I have seen scum go several routes with their night kills before. Yos as mayor and an experienced target would also be a target for protection so scum could choose elsewhere for a while. Yos could be off with his scum hunting and scum may want to keep him around for this reason. There are many reasons yos might survive the night.

dramonic 963: you don't know if you are scum?

FoS: dramonic

Nervous much?

MikeSC6 965: again...what are we gaining from this post? Feels like posting to be posting.

Battle Mage 966: why would you want someone to lose their vote? Do you think zwets is scum? Pointing this out to the mod doesn't sit well to me.

Jahudo 971 Regarding the scum tell of cheering town: It wasn't that he was surprised it was that he wanted to seem townie with the remark. Where have you seen town do this. Examples?

Mufasa 973: why the change of tone...now you don't want to be lynched? I kinda want a claim now.

Nabakov Post 978: Are you a piper that was tryin to breadcrumb with your bard comment. If Piper were town I wouldn't bring it up but Piper is 3rd party. Actually...yeah...I have reason to believe you are because I got word that myself and two others were dancing last night.

Unvote, Vote:Nabakov

(will happily place it back on Kaiveran though)

Dizzy 992: Now you are pointing out cursing? Still don't like it but I feel you are town at this point. Do you think BM is scum?

BM 999: Again pointing out swearing? Seriously, BM is moving up my scumlist!!!!

BM 1011: I can't believe I agree with zwets on something. Let the mod do his job, you scum hunt k?

Kaiveran 1017: Agreeing with MikeSC6 about wanting to lynch mufasa doesn't sit well with me as I already feel uncomforable about Mike and Kaiveran both. Nabakov can wait.

Unvote, Vote: Kaiveran

Dramonic post 1046: Useless

Tl;dr

-Can't place my finger on what I don't like about Mike but I have a bad vibe from him.
-Kaiveran is uber scummy and I would like to lynch him yesterday.
-Dizzy and BM revealing to the mod cursing is not completely scummy but I think it is antitown.
-I think Nabakov is Piper which is a role that charms people at night until all living people are charmed at which point he/she wins the game. I was dancing last night with two other people.
-Dramonic is high on my scumlist.
-Mufasa, full claim please. Let the town decide the benefits of your role.

Yay! I made it!!! Juls is back!!!!

[Juls]

Only have a second before work but I wanted to quickly say that the notes I posted on you were a direct cut and paste from my notes file. So it's probably a bit vague. But I will say some of these notes are just events I wanted to remember, not necessarily always scummy. In particular, I wasn't saying anything about 611 was scummy.

Like I said, it's just a vibe I am getting from you. If I could provide more solid evidence I would likely vote you. I post it more for others to look and think "yeah I am getting a weird vibe too" or "that girl is clueless".

[Juls]

Does the card game have events too? Maybe that's where we get unique roles and powers.

Yes, the expansion does. I will look through and see if there is anything that jumps out at me but there are quiet a few.

[Juls]

OK, I guess it makes sense that you are just another person who has been charmed but I definately think we have a piper. Last night I was dancing with BarryLocke and DizzyIzzy.

I have also found all the events we have had in the expansion deck. Over the weekend I will type them all up but can't do it right now.

Cupido

is the town matchmaker. He/she received the nickname because of his/her ability to make any two people fall instantly in (love?). During the first night of the game, Cupido designates two players who will be "in love" with one another for the rest of the game. Cupido can choose him/herself as one of teh lovers. If one of the lovers dies, the other immediately kills him/herself in a fit of grief. A love cannot, even as a bluff, vote to lynch their lover. Special Case: If one of the lovers is a Werewolf and the other one is a townsperson, the object of the game changes for these two players. The pair's only wish is to live in love and peace and therefore must eliminate all other players (Werewolves and Townsfolk) from the game by using the standard game rules.

That's all the info it has on Cupido.

Piper

- Each night when the game moderator calls upon her, the Piper designates 2 players, whose shoulders the moderator touches. The piper goes back to sleep. The moderator asks all new and old charmed Villagers to awake. They are recognized and fall asleep again. At the instant when there are no more remaining players who are not carmed, the Piper wins against all other players (Even if that occurs following a vote, or thanks to the Werewolves). Note: The piper cannot charm herself. The charmed players still have all their abilities and characteristics. The charm is not transmitted between lovers.

Thief

- If the Thief is used, two additional ordinary townsfolk cards are added to the deck at the beginning of the game. After the cards are shuffled and dealt, the two extra cards are shuffled and dealt, the two extra cards are placed face down in the center of the table. During the preliminary turn of the first night, the Thief looks at these two cards and may trade his/her card with one of these two cards. However, if both cards are Werewolves, the Thief must trade his card with one of them. If the Thief takes one of the extra cards, he/she assume the role of this character for the rest of the game.

It appears the role of "Mayor" in this game is equivalent to the role of "Sheriff" in WOMH.

[Juls]

So just to make sure about this piper thing, Barrylocke was told he started dancing with Dizzy and Dizzy was told she started dancing with Barrylocke? Did they learn through the mod that Juls started dancing? Did Juls learn through the mod that those two were already dancing?

All it said for me was that I look around and see that I wasn't the only one there, Barry and Izzy were there too.

[Juls]

An impressionist takes on the personality of someone else so I can see that being a name but I don't see anything similar to this in the card game. I am having a hard time voting on this reason though. I guess questions to everyone:

1) could this be a scum role disguised as a town role?
2) could this be a third party role?
3) is it better to look elsewhere today and try to verify his claim?

[Juls]

Yeah, I think the general concensus is that it's not plausible. I am willing to vote...but I am not sure where we are?

mod: vote count please

[Juls]

Looks like our mod has abandoned us for an entire week again. I am very close to replacing out because I don't want to waste time on a game if it's just going to get abandoned.

[Juls]

Guess I didn't miss anything...

unvote, vote mufasa