Mini 778 - Inventor Mafia (OVER)

[AceMarksman]

vote: Flava Flave

for including himself in a group that consists of only scum and him.

[AceMarksman]

Leakinggoofball: are you a drippinggoofball who's drip has become more of a gushing flow? (read, are you a DGB alt?)

[AceMarksman]

There once was never a time when I dripped, my flow is impossible to slow.

That was

almost

iambic pentameter o.O. Were you trying for that?

[AceMarksman]

What do we think the device in the middle of the room is going to do to the person who unveils it and tests it out?

The "volunteering a person to test out the newest device" or whatever is just a flavorful way of saying "vote to lynch some unlucky bitch"

[AceMarksman]

Yep, I'm going to have to agree that the one to peek and poke is the one to die.

Can we make this person either zwet or empking? Pretty please?

[AceMarksman]

And Darox takes the bait.

The fact that Flava Flave did not subconsciously consider himself part of scum indicates that he does not in fact, belong to a scumteam.

1)This was in the RVS
2) I voted him with this reason to try and lure scum into an opportunistic vote on me.

- - -
That first post that shows "no interest in scumhunting" is me explaining what the mod meant to a player. This makes me scum how again? The second post lining up two "mislynches" was twofold. One, it was a joke. Two, it was further bait (because no one was biting on my RVS lure) to try and draw an opportunistic vote.

Now I ask you again, what is stopping you from using your vote to remove this scum

Oh? This sounds like you wish for them to be removed from this game. Didn't you just chastize me for that? Also this:

Come on guys, this is simple stuff here, what's stopping you from lynching him already?

Is appealing to the town's emotions and shows willingness for a quicklynch. Mind you, we're on page two.

IGMEO Darox.

[AceMarksman]

-.- wow. Just wow.

[AceMarksman]

tar, how do you jump to this conclusion?

[AceMarksman]

I make a motion that zwet is not allowed to say anything else that is stupid for the rest of the game.

[AceMarksman]

Vote Count:
AceMarksman (0) - Darox
Darox (0)
Empking (1) - Tarhalindur
Farside22 (2) - Zwetschenwasser, Empking
Kabenon007 (0)
LeakingGoofball (2) - LunaLouise, Zazier
LunaLouise (0)
Semioldguy (1) - LeakingGoofball
Tarhalindur (0)
Zazier (1) - ZEEnon
ZEEnon (1) - AceMarksman
Zwetschenwasser (2) - Semioldguy, Farside22

Apparently darox's vote doesn't count?

[AceMarksman]

I was just trying to point out a mod error in a humorous manner.

[AceMarksman]

wait, I want attention or zwet wants attention?

[AceMarksman]

why the FoS on me?

[AceMarksman]

I didn't mean to imply that you made a pre-mature conclusion, I just wanted to know why. Sorry if I offended you or anything :shrug:

However, I don't like your mentality of latching on to a player and not letting go, despite being right about people early in the game. Giving an excuse for tunneling farside on page two?

[AceMarksman]

Out of curiosity, what are your opinions of everyone box color claiming? Nothing else, just the color of box you received.

Absolutly not! The scum know exactly what each box does. Claiming would tell them EXACTLY who to kill. No way in hell are we claiming.

[AceMarksman]

Mhm that gets a severe

FoS: semioldguy

from me. From playing with you in MKMII, I don't think it's a mistake you would make.

[AceMarksman]

I think I know, but who are those two?

[AceMarksman]

I'm pretty sure they can find out

[AceMarksman]

yeah, I'm with zwet on this one

unvote, vote: semioldguy

[AceMarksman]

What makes you "pretty sure" they can find out instead of just not knowing whether or not they could?

Well, if our scum have half a brain between them, they already know what box contains what item. From the first page:

The following devices may or may not be included in the game:
Tazer (NK)
Medkit (Protection)
Terminal (Investigation)
Force Field (Bulletproof)
Sentry (Watcher)
Jammer (Roleblock)
Spybot (Tracker)
Stasis Cell (Jailkeeper)
Comm Device (Mason Recruiter) -- NOTE: This allows night communication, and does not guarantee any role information.
Teleporter (Hider)
AED (Reviver)

Looking at the instructions, I'm pretty sure you can figure out what goes in which box, so claiming would give scum all the information they need.

As for waiting to vote, I wanted to see what someone else thought first (looking back, zwet wasn't the best player to get reactions from, but whatever).

[AceMarksman]

That's a great noncommittal stance on opportunistic bandwagoning, Ace.

FoS: Ace

1)how was it opportunistic?
2)how was it a noncommittal stance?

[AceMarksman]

In reference to post 129:

(1) It states that those items may or MAY NOT be included in this game.

(2) That's only 11 items to 12 boxes, meaning some different boxes probably build the same item, and more if we don't actually have all those items in this game.

(3) Everyone has a different set of 7 boxes. Even if you kill the person who started with one color box there will likely be several others who had that same colored box in their group of seven.

(4) Having the instructions to a box still doesn't mean you know what the box makes.

I don't understand how ANYONE can know at this point that any item belongs to a specific box color.

I'm going to answer these points in an order that's easier to follow

4)You can infer what the box does from it's instructions
1)But the chance is high that most were included. If the scum know the instructions, then they can figure out what's in the boxes.
2)But the scum still know what instructions go with each box and can infer what device goes with it.
3)We only got one instruction sheet, however. I don't know how hard it is to make these devices, and the scum know that there's only a 100% chance of making our color box.

Are you really still trying to get a box claim here? do you realize how scummy it is?

[AceMarksman]

I'm guessing the instructions let me make what's inside the box of the color it is attached to. My instructions don't tell me what item that is.

That's odd, I can't even see my instructions in my PM. Slip perhaps?

[AceMarksman]

I didn't get any instructions with my box, I'm just guessing here.

[AceMarksman]

So, wait, are our instructions given to us and we have to follow them, or do we just say "I wish to make device X which I have instructions for" and it's made?

[AceMarksman]

All my pm says is that I got a [blank] colored box with instructions taped to it.

[AceMarksman]

I thought we were going to get written instructions (like in the red box there will be part x y and z, you have to put them together in the order of z, x, y in order to make the device work). This is why I thought I didn't get my instructions.

[AceMarksman]

unvote

Substantial post coming in about 10 hours.

[AceMarksman]

Emp he needs to come with a warning if you can't tell by my post I'm not a fan. Anyone who never played should be warned of his erratic behavoir.
As for the games you pointed too you saying 3 joke post is too much!
God your worse the empking. Do I really need to go looking at all my games that ended especially MM if you see a patern I don't care in any game right now. I'm typing and doing my best but seriously I have 5 games I'm in and only 3 or getting any attention. What's that say about my meta?
It means I'm losing interest in mafia. Here's a clue take 2 their free. Oh look another joke I must be scum.
I'm hanging on to what I can but the idea of just quiting all my games is their in my thoughts. I can't feel the interest like I used to. I don't know why and I don't know where it came from so I'm just dealing with it the best I can right now. If it means a few extra jokes, bitch about players and blah comments then that's what I'm going to do so I don't have to be replaced.

This seems rather forced with hints of AtE.

[AceMarksman]

you do realize that zaz was defending me in her post, right?

[AceMarksman]

Oh, no not that one. *shrug*

I have learned to not care about impulsive zwet votehops. Life's much easier that way.

[AceMarksman]

Substantial post coming in about 10 hours.

Where is your substantial post? You were around at the time you said you would be making it, making other posts in this game, yet you didn't make this substantial post or even bother mentioning it.

Sorry, I've been busy studying for AP's. I've been spreading out my thoughts through smaller posts in all of my games (including this one) to save time.

ZEE has been acting rather wierd. His posts have been rather opportunistic and jumpy. I would like a fuller explanation of his vote, if the above isn't what he was referring to. ZEEnon, was what I quoted the "catch" you were referring to?

I also want Darox to explain why he voted me seemingly without looking back to see what ZEEnon was talking about. It seems really opportunistic to me, and his unvote and vote on ZEEnon look like scum realizing that he made a mistake and covering his tracks.

[AceMarksman]

I also want Darox to explain why he voted me seemingly without looking back to see what ZEEnon was talking about. It seems really opportunistic to me, and his unvote and vote on ZEEnon look like scum realizing that he made a mistake and covering his tracks.

Are you stupid or something?

I was already voting you. Since the start of the game.

You unvoted me and re-voted me in the same post after ZEEnon's vote. Why?

[AceMarksman]

vote: Darox

Answer the question and this will be removed. Just because something is obvious to you doesn't mean it's obvious to the rest of us. Enlighten us please.

[AceMarksman]

I completely forgot about your 152 and 154 Zaz, I apologize

If I'm correct, MKMII is ongoing. So why are you using an ongoing game as comparison with his play in another ongoing game?

His playstyle was very different. I’m not gonna answer more because it’s ongoing. Also, fair point about him being rather new.

[AceMarksman]

I've answered questions like your 154 before IIRC (if not, then I have in my head... 0:-) )

[AceMarksman]

@ tar:
1)AtE is an acronym for Apeal to Emotion.
2) I don't find Farside particularly scummy, just that one post rubbed me the wrong way.

- - -

@wishy washy: I tend to use seemingly a lot. I don't know exactly what a player is thinking when they make a post, I only know what it

seems

like they were doing. It isn't because I'm trying to be on the fence about a player, it's just how I write.
1) How did I make my statement on ZEEnon easy to backtrack on? I don't see it.
2) Why are you pushing me to make a vote? Previously in other games I have been throwing around my vote recklessly, and I'm trying to stop this.

- - -

Your last point is completely unfair. How are you saying that I don't find Darox scum? I've been getting scum vibes from him the entire game (requested PBPA coming shortly). Please note the case I made against him earlier in the game after his opportunistic vote right after the RVS.

Also you seem to find me scummy for not voting a player I make a post against, but then find me scummy for voting? how does this work?

[AceMarksman]

PBPA of Darox. (post numbers reference posts in isolation)

post 0: Right off the bat, Darox comes and appeals to the town's emotions. He votes me, calls me obv scum, and then calls the town stupid for not doing the same. Notice he posts no case against me, and voices no objections to anything I have said.
post-1: It takes questioning by Zazier in order for Darox to make a case against me. It's very contrived, and I don't want to have to go back point by point against it. If you wish, here is my defense against/attack of it. Notice, tar the

"IGMEO Darox

at the end.
posts 2, 3, and 4: Here Darox does nothing but sling dirt and insults at people. He doesn't refute my defense/attacks of his posts, instead he calls me stupid (post 2). He also slams empking with a post critisizing his reading comprehension skills (post 3), and then fluffs in four.
Posts 6, 7, and 8: These posts offer more of the same. Instead of presenting cases against his main suspect (me), he just starts smearing people.
Posts 11 and 12: here is where Darox's playstle takes a turn for the scummiest. To refresh your memory, ZEEnon votes me here and Darox follows him without even checking to see why. This is inherantly scummy, but when I ask him about it, Darox refuses to answer, instead he calls me stupid (again).

I've got to go eat breakfast now, analysis of this coming later.

[AceMarksman]

I'm not even going to bother responding to Ace's dumb little spiel, if he can't figure out what he's doing wrong with a bit of observation then he needs to get a bit smarter.

Zazier, do you not find this scummy when you're harping on me to answer your 154 (which I will do. My sister has a soccer game in a few minutes and I don't have much time at the computer atm).

[AceMarksman]

Gah, mastin are you stalking me now?

And I only played that way in 742 because you posted wall after wall after wall of text.

[AceMarksman]

and if anyone else wants them:

Open 126 Open 138 Newbie 760 Newbie 742 Newbie 733 Newbie 711

[AceMarksman]

I'll be posting a wall soon enough.

Which, in all likelihood, will be aimed at me, so I'll have to post a wall, and then you'll wall me back etc etc. Vicious cycle.

[AceMarksman]

mastin, write your post in word to avoid stuff like that, it's what I do.

Vote Count:

AceMarksman (4) - Semioldguy, ZEEnon, Zazier, Tarhalindur
Darox (1) - AceMarksman
Empking (1) - LeakingGoofball
Farside22 (1) - Empking
LeakingGoofball (1) - Farside22
LunaLouise (0) -
Mastin (0) -
Semioldguy (0) -
Tarhalindur (0) -
Zazier (0) -
ZEEnon (2) - Mastin, Darox
Zwetschenwasser (0) -

Tarhalindur is on V/LA through the 15th

[AceMarksman]

Mastin, why did you chose to do this post length analysis? Are you drawing any conclusions from it? Have you looked at the contet of the posts? What stands out at you?

[AceMarksman]

List of things I hate:
1)finding people scummy for replacing
2) tbd

[AceMarksman]

I'm a hard read. My post style is considered inheritantly scummy by some, and incredibly pro-town by others.
(Also, there isn't much of a need--I get nk'd n1 so often that there really isn't much of a point to read a dead-man-walking. )

I don't like this part at all. It's basically giving meta excuse for anything scummy you say.

[AceMarksman]

Mod, note my sig. I'll try to post some, but I'll be rather inundated

[AceMarksman]

You consider post 262 part of the joke stage?

[AceMarksman]

I still don't like the fact that you claimed that without provocation. It looks like you are being slightly paranoid and feel the need to justify even

future

actions.

[AceMarksman]

No, I haven't ignored it. Moreover, it gives me slight scum vibes. I've played with you before when you were town, and you didn't feel the need to come out unprovoced and say that some people find your playstyle scummy.
@hiding the truth: You not saying it wouldn't be hiding the truth, as it would show naturaly in your playstyle. You feeling the need to share it, however, is giving pre-facto (making up terms what?) explanations for future actions.

[AceMarksman]

is this discussion, in fact, getting us anywhere?

I would like tar to come back and see my case on darox.

Moreover, I would like Darox to answer to that case, and not just call it stupid.

[AceMarksman]

@tar: Can I have a link to your questions?

3) Darox, I would like to see point-by-point rebuttal of AceMarksman's case, showing exactly HOW his case on you is invalid. Now, please

^This

[AceMarksman]

Except you've got to use a box the night you open it.

[AceMarksman]

Nobody who's called me scum off of anything other than game mechanics (special rules, cop results, etc.) has ever been correct. I've received countless FoS's in my time, several L-1 forced claims...you get the idea. I'm always proven pro-town, for I defend myself well, and those opinions are justly reversed.

That's because you've only been scum once in a completed game.

[AceMarksman]

@lobster: thanks for replacing. What of my posts specifically do you and do you not agree with?

[AceMarksman]

What about the interactions between me/semi/zee/zwet make you think that two included in that group are scum?

On a side note, I love the Vanilla town role, you don't have to worry about being lynched.

[AceMarksman]

I just flat out don't worry about being lynched when I'm VT :/

[AceMarksman]

mastin, chill out. It's hard to come back from a long LA like tar is on. (I know, I was just LA)

[AceMarksman]

What does IIoA mean? I've seen the term thrown around a lot and have no idea what it means.

[AceMarksman]

I'm not liking the most recent posts from mastin at all (especially his little "bet"). I've got to go to bed, but I'll respond to his posts (with a vote as well) tomorrowish.

Oh and lobster, I did do a pbpa of darox within an hour of where tar requested one. Go check if you wish.

[AceMarksman]

I'm finding enough scumtells on this page alone by mastin to justify a vote. So let's review, shall we?

Ace is suspicious, but not that much, for he's also fairly pro-town. Mastin, however, thinks I'm suspicious, so despite the fact that he has defended against every point that I bring up in this post, I'm going to OMGUS him as well as start a small bandwagon, for it surely won't be that suspicious, right? He's an easy target, so I'll just waltz on in and see if I can push for a lynch on this innocent man

This is strawmaning to the Nth degree. I don't care who you are, strawmaning is always anti-town.

If you are correct and I'm mafia, then I'll reveal my age (my closest guarded secret), my alt, my real-life name, etc., any personal information you want about me.

Got anything you can offer to match that if you're wrong?

Expand it if you want. Do you want to take such a bet, or not?

This is scummy. Bets like this have no place in mafia, and this looks like a huge bluff to get lobster and others off your tail. I'm calling you on it.

You should know I hold a personal belief that constantly replacing out is a scum tell.

Why exactly is replacing out a scumtell?

Mastin Votes: Lobster.

This is complete OMGUS

Lobscumania,
LeakingFakeName(),
Farscum22(),
Zwetscumwasser?,

Scumioldguy?,
AceMarkscum?

,

Explain why the two bolded deserve to be on this list. This also looks like OMGUS (I voiced suspicion of you, then you put me on this list). This is also a blanket FoS and voicing soft suspicion without reasoning.

I do believe this is justified:

Unvote, Vote: mastin

[AceMarksman]

I've done this exact same thing in MANY games, Ace, something YOU should KNOW

No, bad mastin. You don't get to excuse strawmanning with meta. I don't care how many times you do it, it's scummy.

I don't strawman. I give my interpretation of the argument.

This is a bs semantics argument.

[AceMarksman]

1: It WAS NOT A STRAWMAN. Ignoring my explanation for that, are you?

2: The fact that I've done it in many games makes it a Null Tell, Ace.

1)No, it was a strawman. Your explanation was a semantics argument.
2)The fact that you've done it multiple times doesn't indicate a thing. It's always anti-town.

So now I'm a top suspect because I'm making cases against you? Really? That's quite OMGUS.

[AceMarksman]

bets have no place in mafia, and it is OMGUS because you never voiced

hard

and

recent

suspicion of me until now.

[AceMarksman]

I'm no longer going to argue this mastin, as your defenses are not worth refuting.

[AceMarksman]

452 gets a huge QFT from me. Mastin is playing very scummily. Bets have no place in mafia, and I'm sticking to that. Furthermore, mastin, you have not been refuting the arguments with ease. If you were, people would not keep coming back with counter-arguments.

[AceMarksman]

I DID however say that those refusing to take it were either unsure of their cases, or were scum.

THIS I find is true, due to them KNOWING that I am innocent, and thereby KNOWING that they'd be wrong.

No. No no no. No no. Nonono. The town has no way of knowing for certainty that a player is scum or town, therefore they are less likely to take a bet (that you seem sure about. Hmm...). Coupled with the fact that many players have echoed the idea that bets have no place in mafia makes not taking a bet somewhere between a null and a town tell. Offering up a bet is a scumtell, however.

[AceMarksman]

Except you can't help pick Mastin's new avatar when he flips scum.

awwwwwwwwww........................ Puhleeeeeeze?

[AceMarksman]

I really would like tar to weigh in. That would be nice.

[AceMarksman]

However, as hesitant as I am to say this, I believe Mastin's claim. This is also tied into Zwetschen's vote on Mastin with no case, and then refusing to build one or reiterate what other's have posted when I called him out on it.

FoS: lob

The only difference between scum roles and town roles are the win conditions, therefore mastin's claim cannot confirm him. He has an even chance of getting the brown box as scum and as town.

[AceMarksman]

That's a shaky reason at best to unvote someone. If mastin flips town, you will fall under heavy scrutiny from me.

[AceMarksman]

zwet, why are you still voting me?

[AceMarksman]

He's throwing around suspicion left and right, yet his vote stays on me with no (visible) basis. Zwet, why is this?

Vote Count:

AceMarksman (2) - Zazier, Zwetschenwasser
Darox (0) -
Duckduck96 (0) -
Empking (1) - LeakingGoofball
LeakingGoofball (1) - Duckduck96
Lobstermania (1) - Mastin
LunaLouise (0) -
Mastin (4) - AceMarksman, Darox, Semioldguy, Empking
Semioldguy (0) -
Tarhalindur (0) -
Zazier (0) -
Zwetschenwasser (1) - Lobstermania


LeakingGoofball replacement pending.

[AceMarksman]

V/la till monday

[AceMarksman]

um, why did zwet get tazed? What would be the motivation for that?

[AceMarksman]

um, why did zwet get tazed? What would be the motivation for that?

"either he's scum and yay 1 less scum, or he's town and yay 1 less zwetschenwasser. " ~Moratorium
Words to live by.

Are you taking credit for this kill?

lol no.

[AceMarksman]

Alright. So since I only had one box with instructions and I used it last night, I might as well share what happened: I built a spybot (watcher) and placed it outside Beyond_Birthday's room, however no one came by to visit him.
Unfortunately I thought the watcher would watch for anyone coming or going through the doorway. I regret not having asked that question to the mod before I made my selection. I apologize for what little info I can provide.

Vote: lobstermainia

Might as well claim now, as it's caught scum. I got the red box as my colored box, which held the spybot. Lobster, therefore, cannot have the red box as his box, therefore I believe him to be scum. I used my spybot on lobster and the bot got destroyed, so I think I got roleblocked.

[AceMarksman]

Wow that's rather impossible to read. Sorry, I'm really tired at the moment. I'll explain it better later.

[AceMarksman]

I went and used one of my secondary boxes last night phase.
I used my Black Box on Empking. I tracked that he went to Zwet at night. He killed Zwet.
Turns out that Box is ALSO a Spybot.

Well, that deflated my ego quite a bit :/. Thought I caught scum, oh well.

That being said and assuming there's only one scumgroup and assuming that the scumgroup used a killing device last night, empking has a 50/50 chance of being scum. I'll take those odds.

Vote: Empking

[AceMarksman]

hey, responding to prod. I've been busy over the past few days, sorry.

[AceMarksman]

V/la over the weekend.

[AceMarksman]

hey guys, I'm (finally) back from my V/LA, it was A LOT longer than I expected and I'm so sorry. I'm going back and reviewing what I missed.

[AceMarksman]

Responding to prod, substantial post soon.

[AceMarksman]

Mod: please replace me. I've been way absent and that's no fair to the other players.