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Bastard Set-up?
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SensFan Fortuna Ex Deus
- Fortuna Ex Deus
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- Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Bastard Set-up?
Personally, my definition of a bastard mod, or a bastard set-up is one in which the Mod lies to the players. I make it a rule in all games I mod that I will never lie to the players, so I never thought I'd be 'accused' of bastard-modding, but after I revealed the set-up of my recently-completed Mini Theme, more than one player thought the set-up was bastard. Was this unfair to the players? Should people stop assuming things about roles and set-ups?
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Modnote: Roll randomly between all choices that have not been randomly chosen on previous Nights.
Modnotes: Becomes Pro-Town Compulsive Vig. Role reveal does not change.
Modnote: Becomes an SK. Only Night Action that effects the SK-Dragon is the spellcasting. Role reveal does not change.
Modnote: Always shows up as 'Not Voting', unless its the end of day votecount, and he hammered, in which case he appears at the last vote on the wagon, as normal.
Modnotes: Anyone who targets him get blocked, and 'beat up'. Daybreak scene includes that anyone who is 'beat up' has suffered severe injuries. They do not know it, but they take one less vote to be lynched that Day.
Modnotes: Daybreak scene tells everyone that anyone stumped overnight shows all the signs of having been bitten by a werewolf overnight, and so they lose their democratic right, and are basically no longer considered members of the land, so they count as being dead for all purposes, except that they can talk. They cannot be targetted at all by Night actions.
Modnotes: Sane Cop. Gets "No Result" on Vampires and Giants. "Scum" on Dragons or Elves. Town on everyone else. Exception is "No Result" on Red Dragons that went rogue.
Modnotes: The Dragons as a team get a 1-shot NK-Immunity, which is voided if either Dragon kills his teammate.(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record-
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Vi Professor Paragon
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Excessive use of mod notes is also considered bastard modding IMO. For instance, a pro-Town Vig that is revealed as DraconicDouble-Agent will normally get people to pay more attention to the "Mafia" than "Double-Agent".Mafia
Not telling people that they take one less vote to lynch is also pretty evil, because it makes accidental lynches easier to make.
Technically, you never lied, but you still pulled strings that made things unexplainably evil.Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.-
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Danix Townie
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I think there is a lot of implications of lying in the setup, even though you didn't do it directly. I wouldn't call it bastardish per se, but I think you were intentionally testing the boundaries of that and you shouldn't be surprised if the people who lost this game would complain.
I'm also guessing the dragons didn't win this game.YOUR AD HERE
Too busy with work to play mafia right now but I shall return some day!-
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ChannelDelibird He/theyCard CzarHe/they
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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ChannelDelibird He/theyCard CzarHe/they
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- Location: Nottingham, UK
I, the last dragon, killed the last elf because I had to in order to be able to win outright (or so I thought). Shadow Knight, the last elf, killed the Vampires even though that gave him no chance to win whatsoever. The only choice he had that could have given him any chance of winning was not killing anyone, but the Vampire kill screwed everyone over.
I'm not bitter.#greenshirtthursdays-
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forbiddanlight Blowfish
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Well, that'd technically make his flip a lie right thar
Modnotes: Becomes Pro-Town Compulsive Vig. Role reveal does not change.
That as well. But, have an informed minority that is encouraged to work against itself does seem imbalanced
Modnote: Becomes an SK. Only Night Action that effects the SK-Dragon is the spellcasting. Role reveal does not change.
You also have a lot of anti-town "pro town" roles. It's not a nice set up, for sure."Never have I seen anybody glorify their own lynch."
-StrangerCoug
TTGL Mafia is over. Going to mod [b]Umineko No [color=red]Na[/color]ku Koro Ni[/b] Mafia. Pre-/ins, as always, are accepted.-
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ortolan Mafia Scum
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No we didn't double-cross one another. I actually told CDB about that part of my role PM because I didn't want to use it and because it implied there was definitely another scum faction. He said he would have double-crossed me but I got lynched day two after being investigated.VP Baltar wrote:Did one of you kill the other, CDB?
The main reason I thought it was a bastard setup wasn't anything to do with lying it was just the double-cross ability the dragon mafia had which potentially punishes people for playing to their win-con.
It is different to say, that other discussion about killing your buddy because if your buddy double-crosses you, you cannot win anymore in both cases.Currently modding Mole Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=20529
Feel free to PM me to be ready in case I need a replacement.-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Yeah, the worst case scenario for the dragons (both doublecross on the same night) is indeed bastard-ish and gives what I see as an unfair advantage to the other factions. It didn't happen, and would be unlikely, but if it had it wouldn't have exactly been fair.ortolan wrote:
No we didn't double-cross one another. I actually told CDB about that part of my role PM because I didn't want to use it and because it implied there was definitely another scum faction. He said he would have double-crossed me but I got lynched day two after being investigated.VP Baltar wrote:Did one of you kill the other, CDB?
The main reason I thought it was a bastard setup wasn't anything to do with lying it was just the double-cross ability the dragon mafia had which potentially punishes people for playing to their win-con.
It is different to say, that other discussion about killing your buddy because if your buddy double-crosses you, you cannot win anymore in both cases.-
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animorpherv1 Honey Trap
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WHAT? I don't get a role named after me?
(as long as it isn't a 1 shpt or vanilla townie, I'm fine)
This setup is fail untill then."Animorpherv1's posts are so powerful that prolonged exposure may cause vertigo, nausea, acute tinnitus, and in rare cases, death." - vonflare
"Ani is right 100% of the time" - Alisae-
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Goatrevolt Pond Scum
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I certainly am! Dragons + Vampires would have won together. Sexy.ChannelDelibird wrote:I, the last dragon, killed the last elf because I had to in order to be able to win outright (or so I thought). Shadow Knight, the last elf, killed the Vampires even though that gave him no chance to win whatsoever. The only choice he had that could have given him any chance of winning was not killing anyone, but the Vampire kill screwed everyone over.
I'm not bitter.
I thought the draconic team was pretty bastard moddish. Ortolan or CDB could have lost simply because their scum buddy decided they wanted more power or to play it a different way. I think it's bastardish to give someone a role where they can lose basically on the whim of someone else who is told exactly what they are.
Also, this isn't bastard modding persay, but kind of annoying that I was effectively the only vanilla in the game as a neutral survivor. I was both the weakest player in the game because I had no abilities, on my own team with no protection and two killing factions, and couldn't even claim Vanilla because OP knew he was the only vanilla in the game (despite him being a double voter!). I was planning to claim bulletproof to keep me alive, but I couldn't claim that either because there was an actual bulletproof. The game played out in my favor with OP dying before he announced his "I'm the only vanilla" claim, but it was pretty much a huge uphill battle for me from the beginning.-
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Herodotus Black Ops
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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- Joined: March 28, 2005
- Location: New Jersey
Any setup that contains a survivor is bad. [/runningcrusade]
Seriously though, no, it's not a "bastard set up" (although I wish people would stop using that term in a negitive sense).
If I was reviewing the setup, I would suggest a mod PM telling anyone who was beaten up that they'd need one less vote to get lynched that day, or else put that information into the "giant" role PM, or both; having someone just unexpectedly get lynched at L-1 with no warning to anyone beforehand seems to just add randomness to the game.
Nothing else I really have a problem with. I am curious about what you were trying to do with the mason/neighbor pair.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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Would the Double Agent who turned into a compulsive vig still flipred?
If only the dragons remained with town, what stops the gold dragon killing the red and automatically winning?Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi
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