Mini 884 - Last Man Standing (Over)

[Benmage]

/confirm.

[Benmage]

Vote Vi

obvious scum.

[Benmage]

Vote Vi

obvious scum.

Vote: Benmage

(L-6)

Clearly a wannabe mage.

This is normally the part where I try to start a conversation to

ruin the RVS for everyone else

spur

the game on, but I can't think of anything offhand.

See scum, omgus vote and was actively lurking until i applied pressure. Gogo wagon Vi gogo.

[Benmage]

por que,
CA?

may i
abstain?

Questioning an RVS vote? Your jumpiness when voted is noted. /unintentional rhyme

Seems like a joke...Spanish..."may i abstain". Your interpretation of his "jumpiness" is noted.

[Benmage]

To answer your question, I do think that extending the RVS is a bit scummy, so Ecto tips a bit towards the Scum side of my scale. Ecto wasn't the only one doing it, though. And I found your reaction more scummy than those who were trying to extend the RVS.

Why is extending the rvs scummy?? People are lackadaisical and sometimes slip up..plus it tends to be humerous and fun..i loves the rvs.

[Benmage]

I like what's being said in this post. Enough to vote.

unvote. vote: nm8

Word I like post 61 as well.

unvote vote Nachomamma8

On Nacho - If his current style of posting continues, it would be no great loss to see him dead before N1.

[Benmage]

@Ben p64- I find that allowing the RVS to continue for an undue amount of time distracts the Town and puts off ScumHunting. I find that it's all too easy for Scum to use the RVS to build a BS case on a Townie. With that in mind, I find it to be scummy to try to stretch out the RVS. Point in case...

People are lackadaisical and sometimes slip up

...this applies to Townies as well. If allowed to continue on, there is a chance for Townies to say something stupid and end up looking very scummy in the long run.

Yes many things people see as 'scummy' both town and scum do from time to time.

Cases based solely on the rvs are bad cases and I doubt scum would play so poorly, but you never know.

I dont think the rvs puts off scum hunting or distracts..its fun, lighthearted, and relatively brief. I've never seen one in a mini go over 5 pages, or 4 days long...with deadlines avging 3 weeks..i think we can afford it.

[Benmage]

Which bandwagon VPB?

[Benmage]

Which bandwagon VPB?

The person d3x is voting, ie nachomamma8.

Ohh well.. the bandwagon i think stemmed from porks post 61, not d3x's pov.

[Benmage]

There a reason you got so much of that wrong considering you're in support of the wagon?

Mustve forgotten about dc3's vote or something but liked post 61's position.. There has yet to be a vote count =/.

[Benmage]

You also thought post 61 was by porkchop express.

Quit making me look bad! But seriously i do need to read more carefully and not post off memory alone.

@Ben:

But when the RVS has already ended, is it scummy to attempt to extend it?

Are you saying that people who do "scummy" things should be excused? Because you DID say that "many things people see as 'scummy' both town and scum do from time to time". If not, what was the point of that statement?

Do you believe that the RVS is beneficial to town?

Bladdy bladdy bladdy ask some smarter questions please or dont mind me when i dont answer all of em. "Scummy to extend rvs"... Yes, no depends...bad question.

Next one: No you cant excuse scummy behavior, but you cant/shouldnt condemn people on minor things alone; usually...Things that are all wifom, would scum do this... would town do this etc etc crap like that. I've been in games where buddying, bussing, answering/defending questions geared toward another..things town, scum, just players do..and that was considered a case. Its sort've what I was referencing with that statement.

"Rvs benefical to town"...bad question...yes, no, i dont care...i like it, what do you think? How is it bad, how is it good? (see those last 2 questions I made...they sound like things you'd ask... quick meaningless questions to make me look like i'm being inquisitive hoooray)

[Benmage]

w.t.f....

[Benmage]

I like my vote but would freely switch to whichever of VP, Sotty, and Amished has the largest wagon.
This unfortunately has the side effect of alienating half of my fan club at once, but etc.

Why VP?

I don’t like this post. I don’t like that Benmage doesn’t seem to be paying attention to the very little play that has transpired so far. I really don’t like that he doesn’t seem to be paying attention to the details of the bandwagon that he joined. This was a pretty huge gaffe for a simple memory failure. He ignores Ecto entirely (even though he quotes a link to Ecto’s argument) and then possibly tries to hide his band-wagoning behind my band-wagoning.

Pfffft...this is terrible reasoning for dislikeing me...so i confused u and ecto for a post i liked....i said it was post 61 which is true. Zomg i am human and thought it was by someone else.

You're reaching farrrrr here. Scum are nitpicky as hell...they make sure to be errorless...so i was semi nonchalant in my posting thus far. It cause i'm town. I dont need to tread on thin ice because I dont need to act town, i just can do whatever the hell i want...(basically).

I made a simple name mistake, to hop on that is comical...but its cool we'll(me, + the town, not you..)progress from here.

Oh dear.
Except that this isn’t a helpful, pro-town attitude and it will lose you support. Like so.

Unvote. Vote: benmage

I dont understand wat you're quoting here.

[Benmage]

You're reaching farrrrr here. Scum are nitpicky as hell...they make sure to be errorless...so i was semi nonchalant in my posting thus far. It cause i'm town. I dont need to tread on thin ice because I dont need to act town, i just can do whatever the hell i want...(basically).

You are playing bad because you are town? Yeah, that doesn't work for me.

i never said i was playing bad...i mixed up two people....jebus.

[Benmage]

hrmmm...real case on confidanon...time to reread it.

[Benmage]

I read Con in iso...nothing really stuck out for me as too terrible...why's he have so many votes?

One thing that struck me as peculiar was him saying nacho is more scummy town..than scummy scum...whats the difference there...??

[Benmage]

Lets see some of the voters iso’s for reasoning why:

Unvote
Vote: ConfidAnon

Also vote for d3x, and benmage, if I could.

why me?

Right now, Nacho is obviously scummy . . . but not enough so that it warrants a vote from me yet.

Pretty much sums it up. Why would you keep your random vote (that you've now talked about random votes have no meaning); instead of voting for somebody obviously scummy? It's a sure sign of scum not wanting to vote for somebody (buddy, town, either way works; initially leaning towards town).

Oooo tis a good point.

Unvote, Vote: Confid

The “So obviously scummy but I won't vote” thing pushed me over the edge.

This point again…ok, ok.

Unvote, Vote: ConfidAnon

Not voting "obv scum"....priceless.

This point again!

It's not that he's not explaining why he finds him obviously scummy. It's that he says he's obviously scummy but doesn't vote him. Does not compute.

Word. But than he calls him scummy town, not scummy scum…tough reach there. Scummy town to me is usually referencing players playing poorly/badly…its early for that deduction. So a little confused by his statements.

Please explain to me why a random vote requires justification?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
4. "omg! why are you questioning me?! that's an overreaction! you must be scum! RVS vote stays."

hint: its number 4.

vote: confidanon

I didnt understand this DJ, could you explain please or rephrase.

Con's wagon seems good. Could be some sorta slip he made. I dont see any better options atm, gonna re-read that nacho thing.

unvote vote ConfidAnon

[Benmage]

I'm sorry, and maybe I'm just crazy, but why did you just vote for ConfidAnon, Benmage? Where is the rational thought behind that one?

He isnt voting for someone he believe is obvious scummy..then gives a later explanation that he views him as scummy town, not scummy scum which doesnt make sense to me at this point of the game.

Why focusing my vote on Con alone?

[Benmage]

I'm not sure what to make of Benmage putting ConfidAnon at L-2 tbh... for the same reason as everyone else... after acknowledging everyone on the wagon having the same reason.

Its a decent, illogical offence no?

L-2 isnt exactly a death sentence...but it'll make Con forced to come in and clarify (not lurk it off) and if he/she doesnt, or messes up it'll be a fast D1.

[Benmage]

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

whatsup girl...why u make me ask...just state why, you know i'm gonna ask

[Benmage]

It's my new two strikes policy. You really do seem to be following wagons with no original thought whatsoever.

So original thought is a requirement for all wagonvoting... I told you what outcome i'm looking to achieve, and my reasoning same as yours for initial voting...but i need original thought

[Benmage]

Yeah, I mean, you followed the nacho wagon without even really understanding it and now you're far to eager to jump on ConfidAnon before he has even had a chance to explain himself. If you have nothing original to add to it, I don't see any real reason for you to be in a clamor to join the wagon, especially when your previous post said that you had JUST read him in iso and didn't see any reason to be voting him.

And than i read all the voters isos, voting him for insight. Dont tell em i jumped or rushed this one harshly...i wasnt sinking my teeth into the game yet early on...made a misname and didnt see 1 vote. Geeeeze.

He explained himself. Me putting him at L-2 will make him come out and defend himself, if he fails to do so properly he hangs. Its fairly simple.

Its a decent, illogical offence no?

L-2 isnt exactly a death sentence...but it'll make Con forced to come in and clarify (not lurk it off) and if he/she doesnt, or messes up it'll be a fast D1.

ConfidAnon has already clarified that statement. I even quoted where he did it.

I read the clarification.

That

actually makes it worse for me. Me, not the other PoV's who are voting.

He said he reads scummy town, not scummy scum...What is your interpretation of scummy town?

[Benmage]

He said he reads scummy town, not scummy scum...What is your interpretation of scummy town?

Are you suggesting that scummy Townies are somehow rare?

Hell no. They're everywhere. But my interpretation of scummy townies are bad/novice-like/poor players....I think it a bit early in this game for Con to be suggesting that of Nacho.

Again, how do you define "scummy townies"?

[Benmage]

Nacho has gone MIA since the pressure left him, I don't like that.

Noticed this too, i need to reread his iso, and that 1st wagon on him.

Again, how do you define "scummy townies"?

People who act scummy, and yet happen to be Town (or are probably Town).
I have no idea why you think it was too early for that suggestion to be tossed around.

You think theres already ample information to decide someones scummy actions aren't because they're scum, but that they are town and just did a scum-like-action-slip. That would mean the player would have to have already contributed significantly indicating clear town-like play, and then have a scum slip or two or bad move...i just dont think there's that much info yet in the game...so when a player this early is scummy, i dont see how one can call it or write them off as "scummy town"...but then again, we'll wait to here from Con.

I liked what VP had to say to Ben.

Explain.

[Benmage]

Benmage, when do you think you can call someone scummy town?

Dudet i dont know exactly, absolutes suck in this game. But generally i'd say when you have a good town read on someone throughout a game and they slip up. Do a novice/poor/scummy move.

I like that analysis by ecto about x scummy and x antitown..tho i'm sure i've interchanged the two.

[Benmage]

Hmm i'll add to that definition...When people play poor. And do basic scummy moves (you see this alot in bad and new players) that can be called "scummy town".

[Benmage]

And than i read all the voters isos, voting him for insight.

That doesn't make you look better in my eyes. You are essentially saying "I didn't see the problem until other people pointed it out for me and I think it's GRRRRRRRRRRRREAAT!" It's a scum mentality of scum hunting.

dur...welcome to mafia...iso reads aren't nearly as good as rereading whole thread..reading the others isos put things in perspective..how can i interpret his answers without the questions...dunt dunt daaaaah

Wowwww my wagon is zoomin (still readin)

[Benmage]

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

He has hopped on every bandwagon that looks good to him, he has been posting zero content, and I hate the majority of his posts.

Every...2...but every does sound worse, so nj.

First, his piggybacking off Porkchop's vote with absolutely no explanation whatsoever except for "I like this post."

I thought that was damn good reasoning..and what'd u do after it..ask bs questions which by the way you didnt answer mine.

He then refuses to answer two questions asked of him because they're "stupid questions".

zzzzzz..heres a question name the colors of the rainbow.

Then, there's this.

You're reaching farrrrr here. Scum are nitpicky as hell...they make sure to be errorless...so i was semi nonchalant in my posting thus far. It cause i'm town. I dont need to tread on thin ice because I dont need to act town, i just can do whatever the hell i want...(basically).

Instead of defending himself, he basically says "if I was scum, I'd be playing a lot better right now." I don't like this at all.

Argue this logically against me...PUHleease. Tell me which scenario you think the scum player is more likely to act.

1. Do you think scum in general take a more careful approach towards games? Making sure to play as flawlessly as possible?

2. Do you think town is more or less likely to take a laid back approach towards the beginning of a game?

Just tell me logically which makes more sense.

Other than that, he hasn't done any scumhunting whatsoever, and it seems he's just trying to coast by.

Rofl...first i beg to differ...2nd you used my point against you...you asked the dumbest questions ever to be "inquisitive"...zzzz i c thru u, and u didnt like it...nice omgus vote.

@Benmage: You're making this into much more of a Burden of Proof argument than it needs to be. You don't need a long history of posts to be able to see the intent behind what people say and do.

I seriously don't think this is the first time you've ever run across the distinction between "scummy" and "anti-Town".

i'm confused by this point... rephrase??(if its worth it)

Benmage, when do you think you can call someone scummy town?

Dudet i dont know exactly, absolutes suck in this game. But generally i'd say when you have a good town read on someone throughout a game and they slip up. Do a novice/poor/scummy move.

Do you think Vi's “scummy town” of Confid is set in stone?

For your sake i'm going to assume this is a rhetorical question.

Reading through, nm8 looks more town, porkchop (and by extention, ecto) look more scummy due to ecto's bad vote; and porkchop just agreeing with it and not adding anything more to the game at that point (65). Benmage hopping onto the same vote for the same reason makes me think that both PCE and Ben wouldn't be scum together (too obvious), but one is scum almost for sure. I stand by 106 for my views on Ecto.

This is post 61 you are referring to right? The one i agreed with? I think? There was another agreeing with that post too right?

I would like to vote for Vi, but I don't see that taking off. Benmage is scummy as well and should be voted for.

Nah, yeah, wagon it up.

Any other opinions? (Ben, maybe you could actually give us a real one?)

Give me a real question..with some depth to it, and i'll be happy to oblige. I'll help narrow it...on what issue, or thing do you want my opinion on?

I was also trying to force the king of bandwagon jumping (Benmage) to take an opinion on something :/

Man you should get a little award for embellishment.

my post against benmage, I was pointing to why I feel he's scummy, and if anybody wants to question those reasons, we both have a good starting point to work out why I feel he's scum; and I can clarify further instead of having to rehash everything.

I'll bite, lets hear some clarification.


(Ohh goodies, nacho was 3rd voter on me too )

[Benmage]

dur...welcome to mafia...iso reads aren't nearly as good as rereading whole thread..reading the others isos put things in perspective..how can i interpret his answers without the questions...dunt dunt daaaaah

But the problem is that the line you attack him over, the line that everyone else attacked him over, doesn't need any context to appear scummy. If you were actually scumhunting on your own, it might have stood out to you. As it is, others had to point it out before you found it scummy.

So, yeah, vote stays.

Uhhh False....Here's my post reading Con's iso before reading the iso's of those voting him:

I read Con in iso...nothing really stuck out for me as too terrible...why's he have so many votes?

One thing that struck me as peculiar was him saying nacho is more scummy town..than scummy scum

...whats the difference there...??

[Benmage]

@Benmage: If you make another post like 190 you

deserve

to die. Summary paragraphs make kids happy and rainbows appear in the sky even when it doesn't rain. Plus what you said is more sniping than defending.

Vi, this aint your first game with me...thats how i play especially if i fall behind in a thread and catch-up.

What you mean by summary paragraphs? You dont like my quote/response/quote thing...

(inc Zazier/battlemageposts)

[Benmage]

If you don't answer my questions, do you honestly think I'm going to answer yours?

This is gonna be a fun trend.

There's an

equal

chance of both.

Wow!...Equal...equal!!! I'd yield that there's a chance of both...but an equal chance. geeze you'll say anything to make your point more believable. terrrrribad.

(Ohh goodies, nacho was 3rd voter on me too )

The Third Vote Theory is only effective if the person placing the vote isn't aware of said theory. Also, if everyone were to buy into that, then no one would actually be lynched because everyone would be afraid of casting the third vote.

I was being comical...but your response makes me think your sweating....i like

[Benmage]

Less agreeing with what other people have been saying, more taking stances.

How do you read my post in 190, not like it, and bare through post 196 and not make a single comment on the fluff and uselessness of it.

[Benmage]

Ohhh right right right... Quick synopsis.

I'd love to vote Nacho, because this whole exchange between me and him seems like a desperate attempt to push my lynch on "easy terms"...and its not workin out.

But my votes going to VPB...and i'll try to expand on this maybe later to help convince why, because right now its terrible reasoning. Well not bad, but bad in getting you all to lynch. Its based off a meta between me and her, and she just isn't playing at all how i'm use to (so clearly i think shes scum)...obviously meta is something only for me, so i'll try and expand on this later.

unvote vote VPB

[Benmage]

@Con

can you explain further your interpretation of a 'scummy town' vs a 'scummy scum'.

[Benmage]

@Con can you explain further your interpretation of a 'scummy town' vs a 'scummy scum'.

Someone doing a scummy action does not neccessarily make that person scum. Town do scummy things, as do scum. To me, NM reads more as a townie who has done scummy things than actual scum trying to cover for his mistakes. The read can definitely change, but as of right now I think he's town.

Well than what from him reads town?

115:

You explicitly state that you can't condemn people on small things alone.

Unfortunately, this is exactly what you do to CA; especially after seeing the reason that all of us had voted for him at the time. You went back and quoted the fact that it was a small thing that we all went against him for, but you decided to vote for him and do exactly what you thought was scummy previously.

Reading post 115 I dont see where I explicitly state this.. Please link or quote....

Also pretty sure i said from beginning my vote was to see his response/hear his view on "scummy town vs scummy scum(clearly-er)" ...and was in no way the nail in the coffin, so stop pushing that false point.

127: "wtf" does nothing to express your opinion. I get the feeling you posted it for the sake of posting it (and it was right after I started attacking CA, and DJ attacked CA as well (hrm). It's a post that allows you to say it means whatever you want it to mean, while not advancing the game. Anti-town at best.

(I cant believe i have to respond to this)
Lets see....omg, its so simple. It was in reference to post 126...the??? post right before it..i didnt understand the point or what dj was really doing, and i think i clarify so later.

Anti town …this case is awesome (massive sarcasm for those of you who cant read between the lines)

133: Terrible WIFOM about scum try to play flawlessly. Everyone tries to play flawlessly as they can.

This is false...simply you can't use absolutes. Welcome to mafia. I understand you're trying to sound convincing, but this isn't a high school persuasive writing assignment. Just me alone as a sole person, based off my experience I can disagree. I read every line slowwwly as scum…as town i skim here and there occasionally (i try not too ) But my point was/is, as town i sometimes post without having my reference in front of me or writing in word or previewing or making sure everything is 100% perfect. As scum I do. And my point is i believe most people make sure everything is 100% perfect as scum, but might get lazy a little as town and rush something.

Do you disagree?

This relates to the CA vote: wouldn't scum be more likely to vote *for* CA for his comment rather than leave it be? Yet who did you suspect, the person who has been nitpicked upon. This does not look like a vote that should come from your perspective and opinion about what makes scum.

Uhm, wrong interpretation. Con didn’t reference someone wrongly, or quote some one else…he made his point, his belief, and it was a scummy one. He might not of believed it scummy…there was no error... just a scummy statement. Hence ze votes.

142: Terrible reasoning for your vote (especially with my comments towards 133).

Terrible reasoning It was 3(it think 3) other people's reasoning..that i saw clearly when rereading...but sure only I had terrible reasoning. Please tunnel me more my wagon and your case rocks. (more sarcasm) (comments from 133...oh yeah those inaccurate interpretations)

165: It's the first part of this where you say you'll have to reread him in ISO. You generally should have an opinion on every player without having to read them; while your comment to reread in ISO sounds like you're gonna go look to see what you can find scummy now that somebody else has expressed suspicion on him.

Is this a point....is this really a point. Holy crap. I haven't read the posts following this but god do i hope someone who isnt tunneling me, or is good (because theres some good players in this game) have looked and read this, and nicely insulted or ridiculed you/this post. Of course I have general opinions. This doesn't suggest anything about not having a general opinion.

Let me break this down for you: It is a town thing to do to read, and reread and re-reread, and than re-re-reread again. You learn so much and that is one of the better ways to scum hunt and find scummy things..you never catch everything the first time (yeah i just used an absolute) Especially if it concerns a certain or individual issue. I have a general idea, but i want to refresh my memory on said specifics.

Also, I *hate hate hate* 201. You should not feel it necessary to rely on another player for your defense. I have also played with you, Ben. So has VP Baltar. There might be others, but VP and I playing with you is something that I've seen directly.

Can you please start reading this thread. Becaus eyour case is evident that you dont. Vi complained about my posting style. I told her thats how i post in every game and she should know it because shes played with me a lot...in fact its how tons of players post..i dont know what she was really getting at, but throughout all the midsts of mafia and finding scum i jest a little here and there with people i play with.

So go find something of worth and come back because your case blows worse than the refs who missed that french soccer players obvious handball.


@Pork. Amished took a lot out of me. But “whats the difference” was me wanting him to explain it, not me not having a view on it. And my vote was to get him to explain things further? Good, or did I miss something you want explained further/revisited…its late here I am tired.

[Benmage]

Nacho

this struck me as humerous earlier, and i dont think you commented on it, or maybe i missed it...but you're cool with Con, calling you a bad player?

Do you think you've played a poor game thus far?

[Benmage]

But my votes going to VPB...and i'll try to expand on this maybe later to help convince why, because right now its terrible reasoning. Well not bad, but bad in getting you all to lynch. Its based off a meta between me and her, and she just isn't playing at all how i'm use to (so clearly i think shes scum)...obviously meta is something only for me, so i'll try and expand on this later.

Please do explain because to me it is looking a little like OMGUS.

I told ya its a bad vote already lol, because its based solely on my eperience with VP.

[Benmage]

I'll admit I'm not quite on ball with the Don v Confid argument, I will need to review the thread to get a better opinion on that.

Dont do it!! reading the thread is for the devil. Right amished?

[Benmage]

...

Next one: No you cant excuse scummy behavior,

but you cant/shouldnt condemn people on minor things alone;

usually...Things that are all wifom, would scum do this... would town do this etc etc crap like that. I've been in games where buddying, bussing, answering/defending questions geared toward another..things town, scum, just players do..and that was considered a case. Its sort've what I was referencing with that statement.
...

Bolded mine. One line by CA was enough for you to vote for him.

Ahh ty. Maybe it was poor wording on my part that led to this confusion. But the minor things I was referring to was largely wifom arguments. As i tried to go on and explain later in the paragraph. This question was also a response to Nacho who asked if we should ignore scummy things. (humorous question, i know)

The one line of Con's was vote worthy...again. He isnt hung, and my vote was to see his response/attain more information...i really dont see the issue or why so many have sprung on me.

{wtf}If you had been following along, you would know that DJ's 126 is what DJ thought of CA (explaining his vote)

His answer or statement in the representation of a list of possible answers, was really peculiar and pointless in my opinion..hence the 'wtf'...

{playing flawlessly}Obviously you're aware of this sort of meta in yourself, so you can subvert it at any time. More WIFOM.

Yes, but then i ask you something, for which i asked if you agreed or not. I can requote the question if you like.

[Benmage]

Benmage, why the Veep-Beep vote? I can respect it on an intuitive level, and there are a number of nice reasons to vote him just based on this thread, but I would like for you to explain yourself.

I'd love to, but have been busy and always come back to this thread behind, spend all my time catching up, answering people and get burnt out.

dur...welcome to mafia...iso reads aren't nearly as good as rereading whole thread..reading the others isos put things in perspective..how can i interpret his answers without the questions...dunt dunt daaaaah

But the problem is that the line you attack him over, the line that everyone else attacked him over, doesn't need any context to appear scummy. If you were actually scumhunting on your own, it might have stood out to you. As it is, others had to point it out before you found it scummy.

So, yeah, vote stays.

Uhhh False....Here's my post reading Con's iso before reading the iso's of those voting him:

I read Con in iso...nothing really stuck out for me as too terrible...why's he have so many votes?

One thing that struck me as peculiar was him saying nacho is more scummy town..than scummy scum

...whats the difference there...??

yer...and then your next post just quotes people talking about that post and features you saying:

Oooo tis a good point.

As if you hadn't realized it before.

If you saw it before, as you are claiming, what happened between that post and your voting post to make you think the wagon was now voteworthy? As far as I can tell, it was simply the fact that others were voting there.

Why didnt you ask this 4 pages ago..now i have to look back recall what i said, what i quoted what my thought at the time was *sigh*:

Right now, Nacho is obviously scummy . . . but not enough so that it warrants a vote from me yet.

Pretty much sums it up. Why would you keep your random vote (that you've now talked about random votes have no meaning); instead of voting for somebody obviously scummy?

It's a sure sign of scum not wanting to vote for somebody

(buddy, town, either way works; initially leaning towards town).

Oooo tis a good point.

Reading amish’s view on it, another perspective even on the same issue I liked the part now underlined.

[Benmage]

After playing in a couple of games together, I am just learning that VP is a woman. This does not bode well for my attention to detail.

I'm quite surprised at how confused the site has generally been me switching my gender icon. Interesting sociological experiment. Anyhow, I may have a penis and just switched it for another game I am currently in.

Word. First game i thought she was a he. The name seems masculine to me..than i saw the little pink symbol, and was like w.t.f.

[Benmage]

apparently we are to talk about others now.

but first,

daykill: vi

and nothing to say....

[Benmage]

Ectomancer: Everyone has a gun. I think that has been made rather apparent by now.

-----------------------------------------------------

VP Baltar's response doesn't do anything for me but solidify my previous read. Please kill him and add another scum game to

his

collection.

Scum have guns too?? hmm..if 3 scum shoot, and we assume they have NK's aswell although maybe they dont...what by day 3 they can just blast the remainders alive and win...


his!?!?her!


I dont have a good feeling about VPB this game..i'd have to reread ecto for a better read on him.

Lets use Vi's vote while we still can.

[Benmage]

Ectomancer: Everyone has a gun. I think that has been made rather apparent by now.

Apparent by now being the operable phrase. Prior to don shooting you, it was apparent only that I had one.

Actually, Amished obviously hinted at having one when talking about Benmage... and my response crumbed that I did too.

Yes i made an obvious quote of urs Vi. That made me believe you had a gun, similar to mine which made me believe you to be town. I quoted you, but didnt say anything to show you i picked up on the slight crumb...if it was a crumb, did you see that?

Its why i've a bias-ly good read on you this game

[Benmage]

I told ya its a bad vote already lol, because its based solely on my eperience with VP.

Okay then, how about you elaborate some more then. What is he doing that is so against his meta that you just have to vote him for?

Would love to. Time is of the essence.

[Benmage]

i still think there's a good chance vi is scum here, so we'll have to wait and see.

...there goes using her vote to help us...

Use my vote and lynch Ectomancer please.

why don't you shoot him?

ecto, dj, or vpb seems good to use before death.

[Benmage]

anyone shooting me now, or pushing my lynch is going to be obvscum.

ecto, dj, or vpb seems good to use before death.

can you accurately make this call without vi's flip? i don't think so.

vote: benmage

Bull crap. I told you why i am most confident shes town, and feel even stronger about since your trigger happy move.

I really dislike you're attempts at auto clearing yourself and desire to see vi's death to the end...when she flips town then what? We shoot you? Cool.

[Benmage]

I really dislike you're attempts at auto clearing yourself and desire to see vi's death to the end...when she flips town then what? We shoot you? Cool.

fire away, sally.

daykill: benmage

You can actually only shoot once per day

let's see if that works.

So we all fire, this spins into mayham.

Your quick trigger action, and attempt to than shoot me is laughable...You really think Vi and I are the scum.

Terrible.

unvote vote don_johnson

[Benmage]

^^ obvscum

(psst... i didn't really think it would work twice.)

please enlighten me as to the benefit scum would have for dayvigging on day 1? do you think i possess a "godfather" role that i would be so brazen as to fire in broad daylight? if you really think i'm scum, so much so that you are prepared to face the repercussions if i'm not, why don't you shoot me?

It is possible you could be the GF trying to entice and investigation.

I dont get why you would vig vi, nor do I see why you think i'm scum. I dislike you avoiding using vi's vote who i think is town.

Hanging you works just as well.

[Benmage]

ebwop: you don't need to quote every single fucking post. kthnxbye!

It helps me, and definitely others when reading an iso. You can see what someone is talking about without being utterly lost.

I always do it, and encourage others to do so as well.

[Benmage]

I DON'T think that turning this game into a gunfight is the way to go...

Thats the only reason don lives at the moment...but i am seriously reconsidering this.

[Benmage]

Oh come on, DJ is pretty obv town if you really claim to be town-aligned.

Explain, oh mighty logic maker.

I mean your case on me was so amazing, I'd love to see why him killing vi was obvious town. I had a town read on vi.

(lotta sarcasm, on your case being good and all if you missed that..but still do explain why dj is obv town.)

[Benmage]

Oh, I dunno, how about rereading your (hypo) town PM and rereading hohum's last post. Also, I believe Vi said she was playing deliberately scummy this game, how did you happen to get a town read on her?

Yeah whose to suggest what a scum PM looks like, plus hohums snip.

What of hohums last post? Me being a lead wagon..yeah that makes dj town. Most of the votes on me are really rather poor, even dare i say opportunistic.

And i havent shot dj, which shows some damn restraint. He might be town, as vi believes as well...but sometimes they gots to go for the greater good especially since well he wants me lynched (a bad move as i am town) and more over is willing to kill me (2nd shot attempt, and will undoubtedly try this again tomorrow)... So logically he should be lynched or shot, in just a self preservation manner, no? Not to mention I also believe it beneficial to the town...why me die, when a ?? can die.

[Benmage]

I always screw up BM.

*sips beer*

Wait, i'm not MM's alt...did you mean Battle mage?

[Benmage]

As far as any case on VPB goes, i'll try and reread her today...the meta thing is simply her playstyle not resembling what i'm use to you when shes town.

But will look deeper here.

[Benmage]

Fine, Bm not BM. You're the only one that could be BM here.

For a matter of reference, Ben, what games are you looking at for both alignments.

I'm not looking at any alternative games. I've played in quite a few with VPB as scum and town, and in some ongoing... So its just my personal experience that this play is reminiscent of her scum and not her town...i dont plan on selling a meta argument the (case) will hopefully show her scumminess in this game alone.

[Benmage]

Your 205 suggested to me that you were going to expand on your meta of VP.

There might be somethings i rehash or reference to meta/my experience with VP as I said i'll try...why are you guys getting so hung up on this and expected so much of it... I said it was a bad vote.

You guys are tunneling on a nonissue, it'll come. Rehlax. Trust me i'm one of the more active here, its not like this will be forgotten, just give me a little time.

[Benmage]

I'm not *pushing*, I'm explaining where I'm coming from. If you just explain your thoughts in your next couple posts instead of being defensive about this, you might be a bit better off.

i'm tired..i'll probably just run pbpa to help my memory and see what stems from that.

[Benmage]

Okay heres a PBPA of VPB to help refresh my won memory and to maybe highlight some things and even perhaps reference something that caught my initial eye….les see how it goes:

0 confirming
1 RV
2/3 fluff on westerns
4 half fluff half dislike on d3’s vote on nacho and the following wagon.
5 answers a question
6 fluff
7 clarifies a mistake of mine
8 another clarifier
9 willing to vote ecto for stubbornness. Votes ConA for his “not voting obv scummy”
10 confirms vote
11 fluff
12 pointless question (?)
13 asks ConA questions on don, and scummy things from Nacho
14 defends the wagon and her vote on ConA. Had to quote this:

cognitive dissonance coming from him is pretty outstanding.

15 N/A
16 votes me (no explanation)
17 poor explanation
18 explains further, disliking my wagon hoping. (didn’t she defend it(the wagon) in post 14, some in 10 and my vote was similar to her vote/point in 9 and the defense of 14…so I cant switch to a good wagon…ok??)
19 asks vi to vote me
20 defends points against ConA again, but wants to pursue me for my wagon hoping.
21 Now likes vote on me for me not being original in scum hunting but for finding out the flaw through rereading others. (really dislike this point)
22 As far as I can tell (since this is an iso and not intext) I think this was a misinterpretation of VPB’s that I already answered/clarified (feel free to correct me if I am wrong)
23 (Catch-up post) Doesn’t like amish 3rd party theory…wants don and con to participate more..jests a little...(overall not much substance)
24 asks for last words from Vi
25 thinks dj is town
26 defends dj
END

So real quick conclusion. Her overall play is just really poor. Its reminiscent of a coaster style which just isn’t what I’m use to from VPB when shes town. Lots of fluff and useless posts which isn’t character-like of her at all. She’s usually quite good if not much better than this. Mafia 98, ongoing game. This games play is somewhat close to Mafia 91 where she lurked/played bad and was scum.

This game standing alone she hasn’t really contributed much to discussion or scum hunting. Shes asked a few questions here and there (nothing too inquisitive)…Shes tunneled me now for a few days on really poor premises even poorer now looking back. She defends the points against ConA and the wagon on it, yet questions me for joining the wagon on the same point…and also for attempting to achieve what I can assume a similar thing she desired from ConA…that is the point I quoted from iso 14….i wanted more from ConA on his comment, and his distancing from the whole thing was why I added my added pressure…something apparently VPB didn’t like…was this a Bus turned Chainsaw? Stay tuned to find out.

Anywhose ranting too much now…lets see what you guys think and maybe more will come to light/memory.

[Benmage]

/me is speechless

I think that's the best post I've ever seen you make, Ben.

I'm good.... sometimes...i think i had wheaties for breakfast.

[Benmage]

oh right i suppose i should

unvote dj

. I wont be as merciful as vi was thats fo damn sure.

vote VPB

for all things aforementioned

[Benmage]

Ben, do you honestly not see what I'm talking about in the PM and *hohum's* post?

oh right amnesia i did go back and look...and i understand, nuff said.

[Benmage]

So Vi who do you think we should shoot.

VPB?

[Benmage]

That would be a strong implication from my posts...
But I would recommend you hold your fire until there's a decision made on this game going nightless tbh.

I dont even know if im sold on this..trying to think of all possible outcomes...i think one night to see what happens may not be the end of the world...if we all have guns, maybe mafia doesnt nk...who knows the speculation and theorizing is making my brains mush!

[Benmage]

Heal: Vi

Holy crap.

but to me she seems like the most pro-town player here.

So i dont stand alone.

So Ectomancer is scum and VP Baltar is scum. Do we have a third member of the party yet?

I think a pbpa of nacho may be in order. Hes sliddin off the radar a bit since attention is revolving around him..i dont like it.

[Benmage]

How's this for an option: if we can decide who to kill (VP); pwnz or nm8 should shoot for some possible extra confirmation. They haven't really been active lately and I want to hear from them as well.

I like this idea. Either or works for me.

[Benmage]

crazyness

[Benmage]

@Ben- Your Iso41 doesn't sit too well with me. It's like you're making a show of finding out the Scum are packing heat as well. If we're all armed, why wouldn't they be? This

is

a wild west theme, afterall.

That question is in reference as to why the hell he'd do that, not how.

[Benmage]

I don't follow why you're saying scum wouldn't do that.

Because if he's scum, it's an excessive amount of heat on him Day 1. If I was scum and had a daykill, I would certainly save it for later in the game when it is going to do the most damage and work in my favor.

Shooting someone day 1 for little reasoning isn't sound strategy.

too much wifom

And i havent shot dj, which shows some damn restraint. He might be town, as vi believes as well...but sometimes they gots to go for the greater good especially since well he wants me lynched (a bad move as i am town) and more over is willing to kill me (2nd shot attempt, and will undoubtedly try this again tomorrow)... So logically he should be lynched or shot, in just a self preservation manner, no? Not to mention I also believe it beneficial to the town...why me die, when a ?? can die.

Self-preservation should never be at the heart of your scum hunting and shows your mentality in this game.

Theres more to it than self-preservation, its a known town(for me) vs an unknown...its an easy decision.

So real quick conclusion. Her overall play is just really poor. Its reminiscent of a coaster style which just isn’t what I’m use to from VPB when shes town. Lots of fluff and useless posts which isn’t character-like of her at all. She’s usually quite good if not much better than this. Mafia 98, ongoing game. This games play is somewhat close to Mafia 91 where she lurked/played bad and was scum.

I have never heard such a vague and weakass case in all my time on this site. Your assessments of my posts don't even say anything of substance. You don't explain why you think any of the posts are bad, you are simply either providing IIoA or you give a backhanded comments like "poor explanation"...well what does that mean really? what is poor about it? Who knows, but it's certainly poor.

Theres not much to spell out..you dont provide anything of substance or real information thats why they are poor. You havent scum hunted.

Also, your assessment of Mafia 91 is clearly biased. I did not lurk at all that game, nor did I "play bad". As far as I recall, most people thought I was town in that game and I simply got busted by a Vi investigation. I encourage anyone to look at that game and see how much crap you are pulling out of your ass.

I disagree. The meta argument isnt of much importance anyways, your game..this game...sucks.

She defends the points against ConA and the wagon on it, yet questions me for joining the wagon on the same point…and also for attempting to achieve what I can assume a similar thing she desired from ConA…that is the point I quoted from iso 14….i wanted more from ConA on his comment, and his distancing from the whole thing was why I added my added pressure…something apparently VPB didn’t like…was this a Bus turned Chainsaw? Stay tuned to find out.

Yeah, except I explained with valid reasons why your votes this game have stunk to high heaven.

I'm not comfortable being on a wagon like that. After your shady ass vote, I am much more inclined to believe that I was wrong about Confid and not about you.

no you didnt.

Also, I really hope you are serious about this bus turned chainsaw argument, go go gadget mega-reach.

it was quip..not too serious. you may both be scum, but i wasnt serious about bus into chainsaw lol.

So, who else is up for lynching VP here and now (or just shooting him and being done with it?)

Ok, the next person who pushes randomly shooting people is guaranteed scum.

worried?

Your PBPA post is actually quite compelling Benmage. I'm not sure it clears you entirely, but it's a solid case that shows you aren't just an opportunistic voter.

ugh...what was compelling about it?

That you havent done much this game but coast.

[Benmage]

Plus, benmage is scum...trust me folks.

AtE much...

[Benmage]

and benmage did have a decent wagon on him, if I recall.

Go over the reason why its was on me..it was quite crappy.

And look at the pbpa, and the conclusion involving this game alone...ignore the meta crap...i keep saying this!?!??!

[Benmage]

Scotty how do you dislike Amished for buddying. Me ok yada yada, but the doc who saved Vi... (note Amish also suggested you as a possible scum(#3)

Yet you ignore VPB who calls you obv obv town for a simple obvious statement and a meager defense...interesting.

[Benmage]

Theres more to it than self-preservation, its a known town(for me) vs an unknown...its an easy decision

Yeah, and you're creating a false dilemma that it is you or him because you are focused on your own self preservation.

He wants to lynch me, and hasnt shown any signs of not wanting to shoot me if he had the opportunity to do so...how is this a false dilemma?

Theres not much to spell out..you dont provide anything of substance or real information thats why they are poor. You havent scum hunted.

And the vague attacks continue. It's really a quite genius MO when one thinks about it because it gives me nothing to defend against.

Omg...No they aren't..shit defense like this piss the hell outta me and are totally scummy. Do you want me to freaking quote every useless post of yours so you can RE-see it and tell me how "useful" they actually are???HMMM??

You haven't scum hunted. Well, shit, yes I have. There is quite a good wagon on you at the moment due to my scum hunting. I don't know why people are not following through, but horses and water and all that good stuff.

Not following through cause its shitty.

Also, ben, I don't know why you are now trying to back off of this meta argument you made. It is indeed the crux of your attack because you are saying my play here is not consistent with the play you "know". If you are going to say that and make the argument that I'm "coasting" this game as scum, then you need to point out how that is different from games you know me in and know my alignment. Mafia 91 does not fit your bill in the least.

Coasting(or even active lurking) doesnt need to be referenced to previous games. And i've said the meta was poor, and solely for me. I've got you pinned..call it gut meta w/e...that alone wont convince anyone...i know this...its why the pbpa and conclusions and other stuff would eventually hopefully develop into a proper and strong case. And get ur scum ass hung or shot.

Let's for the sake of argument accept your attack of me coasting this game as being legitimate (which it's not). How is this absolutely indicative of me being scum? How do you know I would never coast as town? Do you think I am coasting the most out of everyone in this game? If not, why do you think my coasting makes me more likely to be scum than those other players?

Coasting is inherently scummy.

You see how this whole argument hinges on meta now? You're making the argument that if VP Baltar isn't running the show, he's not town and that's utterly ridiculous.

I've never said anything about running the show..but i've never seen such fluff posts from you. Ignore the fact that i've never seen em (meta)...and stick with simply, why do you have so many fluff posts and so little posts of worth.

[Benmage]

Why is Sotty obv obv Town? For defending you...?

It's called a joke. However, I do have a town read on her. Her play here is consistent with Sotty-town.

How? Explain? or is this a reverse meta usage. (more buddying?).

[Benmage]

Interesting how? I'm blind.

I am also allowed to change my mind as the game progresses. I am not liking Amished one little bit right now.

Sure ones allowed to change their mind...You may dislike Amish for whatever reason, i dont think you've really illustrated why.

Because the buddying thing is weak as hell.. Ok he buddy's me, fine you can dislike that.

But I, Vi, him... all were like 'awesome' when Con healed..so how can you hate on someone buddyin a doc?? doesnt make sense.

And you ignore VPB who appeared to be buddyin you(so this cant be a vendetta against "buddying")...soo not blind, interesting...alternative motive perhaps..idno, but definitely interesting.

[Benmage]

Ben, do you think I have been avoiding commenting on people?

Probably, i'd have to look back and see, but i dont really care.

Are my opinions on players not clear? If so, who would you like my opinion on exactly?

Me again please. I'd love to rehear the reason for voting me.

How is this absolutely indicative of me being scum?

Coasting is scummy.

How do you know I would never coast as town?

It doesnt matter. Coasting is scummy. I dont care if you act scummy as town, all the more reason to lynch you.

Do you think I am coasting the most out of everyone in this game?

I dont know.

If not, why do you think my coasting makes me more likely to be scum than those other players?

See above.

Please dont just rattle off questions again, that really suck and lead nowhere and are more or less already stated or can be deduced. It wastes my time and I considered it fluff and an attempt to look busy/inquisitive without getting anything concrete on the table.

[Benmage]

Why is Sotty obv obv Town? For defending you...?

It's called a joke. However, I do have a town read on her. Her play here is consistent with Sotty-town.

How? Explain? or is this a reverse meta usage. (more buddying?).

wtf do you mean explain? Her play is consistent with my personal town meta of her. I have a decent amount of experience with Sotty and consider myself a decent judge of her play.

So this is what...a reverse of what i said about you right?

[Benmage]

Ben, are you saying you don't see the difference in calling someone Obvtown in the manner VP did and how Amished practically wet his pants over your case and confids heal?

Do you think VPB was serious when he called you obv town?

[Benmage]

Alright Scotty, that was much better/clearer. I see why you hold your suspicions whether or not I agree. The Con thing imo is still null..the 3rd party and VPB vote holds weight, but i still think amish is town, especially with some of the little back n forth he and i had.

[Benmage]

Go over the reason why its was on me..it was quite crappy.

And look at the pbpa, and the conclusion involving this game alone...ignore the meta crap...i keep saying this!?!??!

I thought the reasons for the wagon were quite valid, actually.

Can you please restate them than.

1. I'm not a doc.

2. The last segment of this post bothers me. Someone calls Sotty town . . . so you find a point on Sotty. You didn't call it scumy, but interesting. This reads to me like your trying to keep as many people from looking town as possible to increase the chances of a mislynch.

1. whatever semantics obviously i dont know, but you healed.

2. This isnt a scenario where everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Noone is confirmed town for me. I'm in no way pushing a lynch against scotty nor even think him to be scum..but something i dont see d1 may come to light d3, or be tied into a multitude of things later. I noted his behavior is all, but he gave a better response so all in all, null.

[Benmage]

So this is what...a reverse of what i said about you right?

No, not at all. If you attack someone over meta, then the onus is on you to show the disparity. If I say I have a town read on someone over meta, I don't have any requirement to explain myself and reveal said meta. The reason being that if you are trying to get someone lynched, you are going to have to convince other people and will obviously have to tip your hand. I'm not trying to convince you of my town read. You're welcome to have a different interpretation of Sotty's play, but from my perspective she's town.

I made a comment..Nothing of too much worth, on something i noticed regardin meta...I wasn't and have repeated this multiple times that I wasn't going to try and convince people of a meta argument. You keep running this broken record tangent.

re: post 360- I want everyone to take a good look at ben's responses to these questions, as it is very telling of his mentality and the "case" he is presenting.

The post is a little, crappy and cynical.. Surely I could've came up with better answers, but i didnt want to put in the effort, and was actually frustrated that you just rattled off these really in my opinion bad-useless questions that seemed more like deflection than anything. I can build on the original questions, but not now..brain hurts.

First he says he doesn't even know if I haven't been commenting on people and that he doesn't care if I am or not. Well that is funny considering that his main argument is that I'm "coasting". If I'm coasting, then I must not be taking stance in the game, correct? Isn't that what active lurkers do, avoid taking stances and merely "look busy"? However, ben doesn't even know if I am nor does he care. So, already he is showing that he doesn't even have a clear understanding of the accusation he is making.

Your right. I'm sure there are people you havent focus'd on, or maybe barely mention to look busy, but when i answered your deflection i didnt care to cipher through everything and check all the facts. My point remains, and I could back it if I had to. (given some time to rest)

Second, he continually acts as if I never stated a reason for voting him. This is also false.

False, come on...I asked you to restate. Throughout our argument/discussion/bickering there shouldn't be a need to exaggerate. Or i guess, AtE to make things sound better our way.

you followed the nacho wagon without even really understanding it and now you're far to eager to jump on ConfidAnon before he has even had a chance to explain himself. If you have nothing original to add to it, I don't see any real reason for you to be in a clamor to join the wagon, especially when your previous post said that you had JUST read him in iso and didn't see any reason to be voting him.

After I said that, I also punched a bunch of holes in his alleged iso read of Confid that led him to a vote. It's all there in the thread for anyone who is interested, which ben is clearly not.

Okay i really dont feel like looking over that early nacho thing..but will if i have to, feel free to consider it a bad vote at the moment, we can rehash is latter if we need to.

The Confid Iso was real little post of mine...Are you talking about it in conjunction with the iso reads i did on the people voting Con??I didnt see you punching holes through it. I have read it and reread it. Please dont ignore this, and please dont say its in the thread but actually show me. Answer me. Illustrate where you punched wholes.

Right now I'll yield the nacho thing, but I want more on how my actions as a whole revolving Con in its entirety were bad, or scummy.

Third, after I showed that ben's argument really does have its roots in meta, I asked him how he knows I would never "coast" as town. His response:

It doesnt matter. Coasting is scummy. I dont care if you act scummy as town, all the more reason to lynch you.

So, it doesn't matter if I'm town, but we should lynch me anyway. THIS IS NOT A TOWN MENTALITY.

Third? I thought 1st bullets revolved around the case on me?? Your posts just reek of you trying to sound/look good....anyways...

Hell yeah it is. Going by the games we've previously stated with you and me, you going to say i've never pushed a policy lynch? What you are essentially suggesting is that we allow scummy behavior to slide because "its how you are as town" bullshit scummy behavior sees the rope. Zwet for example should see the ropes in pregame of every game he signs up for.

Fourth, he ignores the most important question of if he thinks I am "coasting" the most out of everyone in this game and if not, what makes me scummy for it as opposed to other potential coasters. This is a crucial question if this is really the case he wants to present. If "coasting is scummy", as ben puts it, then what makes VP Baltar more likely to be scum than a player like, say, pwnz, who it could be very easily argued has "coasted" a great deal more than myself?

Haha i knew what answer you wanted. I said idno because yeah pwnz was in mind. I havent had the opportunity to focus/readup more on him because my energy is spent elsewhere.

It is quite funny that these questions that poke holes in ben's argument are nothing more than "fluff" to him. Keep pushing that rock, bud.

I dont think i called anything even about me "fluff" in my pbpa, do you want me to requote the ones i did call fluff?

[Benmage]

Also on point 4 VPB. There is a gut read within me on you (meta, whatever) that is going to give me more reason to focus my energy on you in convincing others of your scummy behavior.

[Benmage]

Benmage

- This post and the one to follow, where you read me in iso and said there was nothing wrong. Then you read each player's reasons for voting for me . . . they were all the same, and stemmed basically from one line that I would have said. You found those reasons compelling enough to vote me, and yet you didn't when you read me in iso.

REad this thread!!! *insert many angry statements and loud swear words* (I'm trying hohum)

dur...welcome to mafia...iso reads aren't nearly as good as rereading whole thread..reading the others isos put things in perspective..how can i interpret his answers without the questions...dunt dunt daaaaah

But the problem is that the line you attack him over, the line that everyone else attacked him over, doesn't need any context to appear scummy. If you were actually scumhunting on your own, it might have stood out to you. As it is, others had to point it out before you found it scummy.

So, yeah, vote stays.

Uhhh False....Here's my post reading Con's iso before reading the iso's of those voting him:

I read Con in iso...nothing really stuck out for me as too terrible...why's he have so many votes?

One thing that struck me as peculiar was him saying nacho is more scummy town..than scummy scum

...whats the difference there...??

yer...and then your next post just quotes people talking about that post and features you saying:

Oooo tis a good point.

As if you hadn't realized it before.

If you saw it before, as you are claiming, what happened between that post and your voting post to make you think the wagon was now voteworthy? As far as I can tell, it was simply the fact that others were voting there.

Why didnt you ask this 4 pages ago..now i have to look back recall what i said, what i quoted what my thought at the time was *sigh*:

Right now, Nacho is obviously scummy . . . but not enough so that it warrants a vote from me yet.

Pretty much sums it up. Why would you keep your random vote (that you've now talked about random votes have no meaning); instead of voting for somebody obviously scummy?

It's a sure sign of scum not wanting to vote for somebody

(buddy, town, either way works; initially leaning towards town).

Oooo tis a good point.

Reading amish’s view on it, another perspective even on the same issue I liked the part now underlined.

[Benmage]

VP's 367

- VERY good post . . . makes me want to vote Benmage . . . but I'll wait and see what the vote count is until I do so. Don't want to hastily hammer.

Clearly you didnt understand post 360, nor bother to read 370...But hell i'll indulge you...What about 367 stuck out as particularly good, suddenly so convincing you want to vote me?

[Benmage]

Oh and I still want VP hung.

My lynch preference would probably be:

VPB
pwnz
nacho/ecto....i dont have a good read on either of these, i'd probably have to read both in iso if a wagon started on either to see if i'd agree or not...but some general feelings and overview has me disliking both.

I think everyone should drop a lynch preference, see where we stand.

[Benmage]

Oh and I still want VP hung.

My lynch preference would probably be:

VPB
pwnz
nacho/ecto....i dont have a good read on either of these, i'd probably have to read both in iso if a wagon started on either to see if i'd agree or not...but some general feelings and overview has me disliking both.

I think everyone should drop a lynch preference, see where we stand.

Ben, didn't you do an iso read on me already? If not a few iso reads?

Nope, i've skimmed ya and looked back at a few things, but never really sat down and analyzed you/did a proper iso.

[Benmage]

Nope, i've skimmed ya and looked back at a few things, but never really sat down and analyzed you/did a proper iso.

In your Iso23 you specifically say you're going to do this in response to a comment Sotty made.

i need to reread

{Nacho's}

iso, and that 1st wagon on him.

Why didn't you?

You also talk about doing a PBPA on him in Iso64. Are you still planning to?

Never did that first re-read from iso 23, nor look hard at that first wagon. Kinda got pushed to the wasteside by other more pertinent things.

Yes I still want to do an iso read, maybe a pbpa of him...who knows maybe it'll cover that first wagon issue as well.

Sorry i haven't ...lol? I've done a lot in this thread...a lot more than others, so if i dont cover everything all instantaneously forgive me...surprisingly i do work, and have a life. (but dont tell anyone)

[Benmage]

Oh and who told me to stop quoting everything? U d3x? Post 381 is exactly why i do.

I posted an entire argument and answer to a question in its full context simply by referring to my iso. Makes things wonderfully easy to understand.

[Benmage]

We voting are shooting?

Even without rereading nacho/ecto post 385 makes me down.

Tho #1 option for me is still VPB....bad vibes from her.

[Benmage]

PoE is Process of Elimination.

Vote count looks like this.

Thanks.

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Benmage - You being persuaded by Amished's point would be fine if I didn't have points on don_johnson at the time.

which points on don?

[Benmage]

Clearly you didnt understand post 360, nor bother to read 370...But hell i'll indulge you...What about 367 stuck out as particularly good, suddenly so convincing you want to vote me?

Yea, I've read the thread. 360 doesn't do anything for me. Coasting is just as much a scumtell as it is a lazy towntell. *waits for ben to bring up meta* And meta on it's own isn't a case.

I brought up meta...you playing this game?

[Benmage]

Also, as a side note about your behavior towards my wagon: You keep telling people to read the thread, but you didn't see Amished's post until you did an iso of the people voting me? Hypocritical, much?

Nope. I dont make declarative statements without reading the thread. If anything i keep saying how i need to reread the thread, or certain issues.

Conculsion: ur bad.

[Benmage]

367 is good because of the part under the last quote. THe points about you wanting VP lynched even if she's town ("I dont care if you act scummy as town, all the more reason to lynch you."), and you tunneling on VP for coasting when there's at least one other coaster out there.

I dont get this..unless you are referring to my desire to lynch her scummy behavior..if she flips town than it is what it is...but i cant excuse her scummy behavior, and let her slide bye.

[Benmage]

@Everyone..am I getting frustrated over nothing?? I mean is Con as bad a player as i interpret him or am I being bias....

I mean 381 alone is a dumb question which i answered which i re-answer through my own iso on statements i've already said.

His last post is just as bad.

Maybe i'm being too critical......but i reheallly dont think so.

[Benmage]

Benmage: Nobody likes ZazieR's posting style except maybe Zazie.

haha noted. maybe i'll give zwet style a shot.

I don’t get the point of post 403.

which points on don?

1. Jumpy. 2. OMGUS

Not that strong of a case, but for the early game when it cropped up, it was good.

How does this relate to what Amish said?

I don’t understand post 399 to be honest (its my own post)….those uhh 4amish posts last night may or may not have been done under the influence.

Is this supposed to get me to shut up?

Maybe I am as bad of a player as you interpret, but I'm not going to stop trying.

Again, trying to remember my reasoning in that post....I'm sorry. Keep trucking/doin you.

@Ben: I think you're getting worked up over not much; CA is somewhat spurring you on for an emotional reaction (from my POV). While useful in theory; I believe your reactions have been town ("Am I talking to a brick wall?" tone); and this should stop between two people I believe to be town right now.

I think hes town too...maybe thats whats frustrating me. Dont know

As far as the nightless goes, I'm against it for now. I would rather lynch now on day 1 and see what happens over night. I realize it could be bad for us, but I'd rather roll the dice early in the game than later so we can size up what we're dealing with.

Thats true...i think i hinted at this earlier o.O? I was for this…but now I don’t know. I guess I am for it… lotta wifom. If I were scum I’d obviously kill Con. But maybe they’re worried of night protection…JK would fit this flavor well…

I should just shoot VP to prove myself right.

It's so tempting, this is a fun setup.

[Benmage]

Still very much V/LA and don't have much time, but

With that said, meta itself can make up a case.
In addition, while "lazy Townies" coast, they're also the ones that hurt less if mislynched.

All I am really asking for is for people to at least give me a chance to come back from V/LA and get fully caught up. I think it is completely ridiculous that people are even considering killing someone on V/LA for not contributing enough.

Noones talking about the V/LA period....talking about what occurred before you went V/LA.

Noones gonna rush kill you here. I think there's enough of us decent players to not do this regardless of alignment. You'll have time to catchup and whatnot...i think only I and amished are pushing your lynch. Vi might be for it...but that sure aint 7 players...and i'm not gonna start campaigning it hard while your away....soooooo.....lets all enjoy turkey weekend

[Benmage]

I'm baffled by this move by ecto. Will read him tomorrow(which is today...damn insomnia!)

Amish you gonna be Away or limited access like VPB is technically....

[Benmage]

I think Ecto is only L-3....everything wants in me wants to just shoot him, or vote right now...i wanna hold off to do this read of him.

Plus Vi's flip will be telling in some random off chances she flips scum i cant imagine this a bus. However i severely doubt this because i think i got a fantastic read on her....but then again have been wrong in the past.

[Benmage]

Amish =/ 8 days is long.

[Benmage]

not sure if vi's hit. could be only one shot per day for all of us, or not all of us may be able to shoot. let's lynch ecto, let vi die, then someone shoot benmage. that should net us plenty of info and drop someone from each "faction". i like games with mechanics like this because you can move them along. let's not get all lazy and drag this shit out.

And the reason behind me not shooting you is?

[Benmage]

you tell me.

Well im gonna see what rolls with vi. and than kill you.

[Benmage]

regardless

[Benmage]

Also, I have confidence in Benmage to not shoot dj mostly cause of in game flavor. I'm pretty sure that just slipped his mind (I've seen Ben forget some little things from time to time).

Indeed, but if its me or him, its him whose dying. And the dudes tunneled for no apparent reason for quite some time.

[Benmage]

@Ecto i want to see what happens the flip...if the kill goes into night. I dont know. Whats wrong with waiting?

Plus he has slipped my mind. I dont really want to kill him, but i sure as hell aint gonna let him kill me. He could single handily lose this game.

[Benmage]

Also, I have confidence in Benmage to not shoot dj mostly cause of in game flavor. I'm pretty sure that just slipped his mind (I've seen Ben forget some little things from time to time).

Indeed, but if its me or him, its him whose dying. And the dudes tunneled for no apparent reason for quite some time.

tunneling? please explain. i have "attacked" four different players and implicated two others. how is that "tunneling"?

unvote

tunneled me. what were ur reasonings for wanting to kill me again?

[Benmage]

I've given my reasoning.

[Benmage]

ecto's 445 is chock full of good thinking.

I think ecto is scum...there were other people i wanted to shoot over you. Namely VPB. So i didnt want to waste my bullets...

I havent given you much thought these past few days..i knew you wanted to shoot me, voted me etc...but other things made me forget about this.

I cant go in tomorrow knowing you're just gonna shoot me.

tunneling was a misstatement...i wanted more an idea on your unwavering position on me, and why you still are so zealous to shoot me. So please answer that.

[Benmage]

do you have any other specific questions?

Yes, dont play dumb with me.

You would shoot me if you could.

Why is that...its great if u stated why, i'm asking for you to state it again.

[Benmage]

you have done nothing to convince me that you are not scum. hence my position that you are most likely scum. did i say i was going to shoot you tomorrow?

What have i done to convince you i'm scum tho?? I assumed you'd shoot me. Am I mistaken?

do you have any other specific questions?

Just why i'm scummy...something more than, "oh you havent convinced me your town"

Something with a few points. "Bam scummy here" "Bam here", "here"...etc etc

Suggestions for my next avatar are welcome.

How about we finish that one for me first.

@Ben: Right now, you’re seemingly putting forth the position that you should shoot dj even though you understand that he’s likely town, is that right? Your whole attitude here seems to suggest that you’ve forgotten about Confid.

Well yes and no. Its a sticky situation. Yes, i have reason to believe dj town. I havent forgotten about Con. Hopefully there is some sort've Night PR protective thing or something to guard Con, cause any scum worth two cents in my opinion is going to blast him into oblivion.

So i'm unfortunately assuming there will be no Con tomorrow. Which is why i was for Night, to see how the game unravels but since have reconsidered...not against it...my mind goes into a world of wifom and mush thinking about it.

With that assumption, I also thought dj was gonna shoot me...if hes now saying otherwise and that i was mistaken theres clearly zero reason for me to shoot him. I wouldnt really say my "assuming" is so far off...i felt he was quick in shooting Vi whom i have a town read on....so i dont know what type of reservations he'll have with me. Maybe i jumped the gun a bit.

And the comments towards VPB are dead on.

[Benmage]

Sooooooo i did an ecto iso read to see if his shot had more meaning...and to see if he deserved to be voted...heres just my notes in word i put down when reading:

0-3 Fluff/rvs.

I like his iso 4 and vote on Nacho.

Iso 7-10 is good. He stays on Nacho’s ass. (note refer to nacho to see questions ignored in iso 9)

Go iso 13 answer to VPB.

15 lightens up on Nacho…don’t really like that after how aggressive he first seemed..a nacho iso read might tie things together.

Iso 22/24(**26/27) makes me want to reread that whole amish d3x 3rd party interplay.

(Note Vi’s vote on Ecto iso 23…Ecto does seem to be doing more agreeing. (liked VPBx2, touché on dj, something to amish’s 3rd party point))

Iso 27 !!?? don’t kill 3rd party D1 because they are also against scum!?!??! They are also against the town..w.t.f…

Iso 28 Vi dislikes Ecto and Amish on 3rd party speculation, and moreover Ecto’s “lack of scum hunting”

(Iso 29 Good vi quote attacking ecto for his iso 27. )

Have to highlight this from iso 29:

if you have absolute information that a player is 3rd party,

maybe

we could have a nice long argument over whether you lynch them on day 1. I say no.

Iso 37….??? I don’t see how Vi nearly lied….

Iso 39, Nov 26, 2009 3:22 pm…Shoots Vi. Off Ecto’s iso alone it doesn’t seem worthy of doing…(reading this makes me realize I should just reread the thread…yay more self-induced work)

Iso 42…the “Vi case” by amish is weak.

Lol@ iso 44 Ecto sums up his own game…sunofabitch.

Iso 45 seems to be his case/reasoning for shooting Vi. Appears to hold weight. A Vi iso seems in order…but probably just a whole thread reread.


His claim hrmmm.

Conclusion:

I need more information.

[Benmage]

you're funny. i think you are scum for the reasons i previously stated.

Why cant you just restate them for me? Why must you be so obstinate?

[Benmage]

those are all points after the fact...

[Benmage]

I wanted to know your i guess initial opinion. Everything you quoted was after you already tried to shoot me...Right? I wanted to know before that why you felt me scummy.

[Benmage]

I expect at least one scum between {Amished,

Sotty7,

VP Baltar} and one lurkerscum (pwnz is probably the best pick here).

Could have all 3 there.

Amish being least likely imo.

[Benmage]

Vi, i thought u were against this shoot'm up strategy?

What now if scotty shoots someone..this chain'll get ugly.

[Benmage]

^^^ thats true.

Ecto shot Vi

Vi shot Scotty

Need mod...

Thats about all VPB

[Benmage]

I'm just worried about everyone firing and this going to hell.

[Benmage]

Ben, you said you were going to shoot him regardless. What are you going to do now?

That was only when i thought he was absolutely shooting me. I'd much rather lynch him.

Did he really just vote ConA? *boggle*

[Benmage]

Your initial argument is that he joins wagons without original thought (which is an accusation that can be levelled against you in regards to Confid).

Actually, the accusation I made was that he was joining wagons for reasons he did not understand. It would be one thing for him to not express original thought, but to join them and not actually understand WHY people are voting on that wagon is very scummy. It is not the same accusation he levelled against me in the least.

This is simply false. How can you say i didnt examine the Con wagon. Fully grasp it and his play on all levels, and acknowledge the reasoning for my vote. God your vote is even worse.

And the comments towards VPB are dead on.

play better if you're town...seriously. Your critical thinking skills this game are very dismal.

Pork summed up exactly what happened this game between you and me, and my sentiments. Sorry if others think you're playing not to your potential. (Dont mean to for you to take it personally if you are, i just seen you pay better.) Why aren't you? I must ask myself this...and the conclusion i see...is scum.

ben can stop his bellyaching.

[Benmage]

Why? Because I

believe

what I'm telling Ben. if you think someone is scum, then shoot them.

Me to shoot dj right?

Its a policy shooting/lynch that has me a desire in this area. Just like i push policy lynches all the time on harmful players, so have i here. I had more of a town read on him despite his consistent negative read on me. The policy lynch comes in because his actions and voting habits and statements have been really poor. Moreover his recent play is abysmal and so i want to iso him.

[Benmage]

unvote, vote: vp balthazar

benmage: what sense does it make to policy lynch/shoot who you have a town read on? if you have a town read on me, then how can my play be "abysmal"?

Same reason you lynch a lurker or whatever other category policy lynches fall under. They'll lose you the game in lylo, and theres always a chance of hitting a scum. I had a town read on you, but the play of late makes me question it more. Thus wanting to iso you.

[Benmage]

Right well why i do that...lets start the anti VPB campaign.

Lets see... Nacho hasnt posted in nearly a week...awesome.

Amish is away.

Well lets start with the non voters.

@Pork/Ecto

Who are your guys main suspects, and what are your opinions on VPB specifically?

[Benmage]

DJ

i'm sure VPB will ask, but you may as well give reason for your vote.

[Benmage]

ben, what do you think of ecto shooting Vi and why don't you wisen up so we can actually lynch scum ecto here?

I read him in iso. His case was ok. I kinda wanted to read Vi in iso. Probably still should/will. Hell a whole thread review would be ideal. But all things in time. I just replaced into a game...I've never done this. The game was only 21 pages in when i joined, i'm on like page 17...its eaten up most of my time. I should be done soon and can refocus here. However doing dj at the moment.

But you sit as most scummy to me...so how should i wisen up? Not go after my #1 suspect...?? I am gauging the people not voting, asking who they think is most suspicious, while also asking about you, my top suspect.

Moving past all the "play better" banter between you and i, i think i'm pushing this thread forward.

@ MOD

Like i said.

Nacho needs a prod

. 6 days or so since his last post.

And Amish is away. So we can only accomplish so much. Starting with people not voting seems like a good idea...the rest will come.

I know where you stand. Ecto = scum. What are your thoughts on DJ?

[Benmage]

But you sit as most scummy to me...so how should i wisen up? Not go after my #1 suspect...?? I am gauging the people not voting, asking who they think is most suspicious, while also asking about you, my top suspect.

I think you should wisen up by letting up with your confirmation bias you have against me and actually do some scumhunting. I'm back from V/LA now, so you're argument that I'm not contributing isn't really holding up anymore.

Why do you say his case was "ok" when you claimed to have a major town read on Vi? Why are you not feeling him as scum when he shot your major town read who had claimed town after she thought she was going to die? It just doesn't make sense.

What are your thoughts on DJ?

When ecto flips scum, I will be happy to lynch him for his blind agreement with the horrible cases ecto is putting forth. I gave him town points early for the original shot on Vi, but he's lost his credibility with me since then.

Well i certainly didnt declare ecto town. But i said his iso 45 the case on Vi...didnt seem that bad. Yes i had a good town read on Vi, but his reasoning for shooting from his PoV seemed understandable even if i disagreed. I haven't ignored him. That made me want to reread Vi. Theres other things currently on my plate/agenda that i'm taking care of first.

I think a player post of everyone listing from scummiest to town maybe be in order for/from everyone. (off the top of my head) I dont know where ecto might fall, but 2nd(scummiest) might be possible.

Note: It isn't your contribution now. It was your early game contribution prior to going V/LA.

Also your attack on me was pretty bad. Pretty sure you pulled some hypocritical maneuvers too. I mean this all off the top of my head. I could bullet a case for you if you like.

[Benmage]

Ecto post 532 please

[Benmage]

Ecto post 532 please

I look to be going through that now, or did you just miss the entire post on VP Baltar's interactions with Vi during this game?

I did. And it reads that VPB has been inconsistent, and the whole post is in general opposition of him.

So why not vote?

[Benmage]

^Understandable. Got it.

[Benmage]

@ benmage- I would still like you to look at the timeline you are accusing me of not actively participating over. I had no more than five days before I left for my vacation. How much time during that period do you think I had for pouring over MS threads, especially one that had just started? Like I said before, stop being biased about this issue and actually think about it. Your reasoning sucks and the more you cling to it, the more I am assured that you are scum with ecto.

The activity, and your "level of play" aside...you were hypocritical and your attack on me was down right bad, if not also opportunistic.

[Benmage]

Ben claimed a town read, but I didn't see his commentary display a bias the way that yours does. In your case, I see objectivity lacking.

Those are some keen buzz words you have there.

If anything, ben was much more "biased" in the sense that he was die hard saying Vi had to be town according to his read.

Yeah i had a damn good early town read on her, and shooting her baffled the shit out of me. Its why i read ecto in iso. DJ's shot also baffled the crap out of me.

You guys may be misconstruing what she said also, or maybe I am. She said she thought she had been playing a scummy game....well what does that mean? Did she think he play had simply been sub-par? Was she purposely trying to play antitown?(i doubt that Vi would do this)....so...anyways, regardless she did some damn obvious town moves in my book.

Just rereading DJ's iso in his iso 7, i think he defends an accusation by Vi that he isnt bringing anything to the table. He gives a meager defense and Vi is dead on. You all should go back an look at DJ's iso to see what I am saying, its like 5 lines altogether.

[Benmage]

The activity, and your "level of play" aside...you were hypocritical and your attack on me was down right bad, if not also opportunistic.

I have addressed why I don't believe anything about the attack was "hypocritical" and your reply was simply "nah uh", so please keep tunneling without any sort of real argument, it's quite entertaining. It is also amusing that no matter how your arguments are refuted, you change your story. Now my activity and "level of play", which were the crux of your attack (along with meta), are now somehow irrelevant.

Oh the circles we run in...let's do something productive and lynch obv scum ecto now.

Dude(t), dont misconstrue what i'm saying. I am not dropping the early meta/activity issue. (Even tho all along i said it was a weak point(but nullthere))...I merely said put it aside for the moment, to illustrate how each of my points stand on their own. Where did I answer "nah uh"...come on...

You voted me for "wagon hopping" also for not knowing why i was voting. Wagon hopping is a meh point. Sure i guess its true, but imo altogether null, and i can explain if you like. However sayin i didnt know why I was voting was a Blatant Lie. Time and time again i directly refer back to my actions. I found her statement on my own peculair...i.e. something off, i wanted her to re-explain the difference. Reading others, they saw the same thin I did. Amish put an additional twist on it that made me go wow. So i voted to speed the process of her return and to answer my demands.

You made an opportunistic jump onto me because my first vote on nacho may not have been the best. And you are guilty of your own medicine by wagon hoping as well.

I'm tired of this circular spew, i've answered this question/issue/everything about it more than enough.

You guys may be misconstruing what she said also, or maybe I am. She said she thought she had been playing a scummy game....well what does that mean? Did she think he play had simply been sub-par? Was she purposely trying to play antitown?(i doubt that Vi would do this)....so...anyways, regardless she did some damn obvious town moves in my book.

This is my point. I don't see how he is saying that I am obv scum for not attacking her, when she clearly wasn't outstandingly scummy. It's a pretty ridiculous statement on Ecto's part, which I think comes from him trying to fake his way onto the wagon you are trying to build on me.

I havent really focused or given much thought to his attack on you.

This 3 person peanutgallery of bantery is going nowhere. We need others insight.

[Benmage]

^^^Reads a bit like back pedaling. VPB is voting you, fyi.

And cheah, i'm building the case *flex*.

[Benmage]

pwnz- I want your thoughts on Ecto and all the other major lynch candidates.

My vote is still on ectomancer for the reason that he was infinitely sure of nacho being scum before changing his mind only one page later. It seems to me that he likes to bring a lot of blame to the table but won't take responsibility for any of his brash actions, and now we had what looked like a confirmed townie on a death bead spilling everything and ecto still saw it important to kill that person. The fact that ectomancer seems to be infallible in his own mind after he decides who is scum is ridiculous. *hic

Who else would you consider major lynch candidates? *hic

Omg, this point is ages ago...But ok ...This isnt meant to be a defense of ecto, but im just a little bewildered that hes cool with his vote here, for this point so long ago, after so much has happened since.

uhmmm Why do you only care about who VPB thinks....

what do you think about VPB's alignment? How about some of the points i've made against him.

[Benmage]

^^Weak, but acceptable. At least i sorta know where you stand(where standing is important).

Need more from others, including

the mod.

Pork

where'd u go?

[Benmage]

oooo ooo and i think vi called me town, after i called her town(?)

[Benmage]

Nobody said Vi was playing well this game

I'll take that a dagger toward my comment. I did mine comically as its rather null, hence the "ooo ooo"...but i still stand that she made some good town tells/commentary.

[Benmage]

Well i certainly didnt declare ecto town. But i said his iso 45 the case on Vi...didnt seem that bad. Yes i had a good town read on Vi, but his reasoning for shooting from his PoV seemed understandable even if i disagreed. I haven't ignored him. That made me want to reread Vi. Theres other things currently on my plate/agenda that i'm taking care of first.

I think a player post of everyone listing from scummiest to town maybe be in order for/from everyone. (off the top of my head) I dont know where ecto might fall, but 2nd(scummiest) might be possible.

Why would ecto be number two on your list? He is pushing your number one after all

I said i dont know where he'd fall and 2nd is possible. So what if hes pushing VPB, scum bus. He killed Vi whose town...bad against him. I disliked him for it for i had a town read on Vi, read ecto's iso and his case (iso45) and it didnt seem to bad. Valid from his PoV. It made me want to reread Vi to see if it held even more weight, or crumbled. I have yet to do that as I have other things on my agenda.

What are your feelings towards VPB?

[Benmage]

I dont like that ConA hasnt posted here in 2 days, and yet is posting elsewhere on site. He also only has 21 total posts which reads to me as coaster...maybe he gambled revealing his role to seem town early and coast. I dont know, too much wifom for thinkin like that. But lurking sucks and is antitown.

[Benmage]

As for pwnz on Nacho and Ecto? Standard Op. Go read any Ecto to find me ripping people on day 1 only to move along. What, you want to vote for not voting a day 1 page 3 'start the game' target? Get fucking real dude. The only way you could run this line is if you think there was enough there to lynch Nacho and I abandoned it. If that is the case, where were you pages and pages ago? (Ecto is now the easy target) Why aren't you pushing this Nacho case that was so great that it was suspicious of me to move along?

This is very true. I am baffled that he found nothing of interest more important than a few pages into the game. On the first thing of interest out of the rvs...come on. I've forgotten what that thing was even about.

He also has 14 posts...14! gimmie a break. Lurker/coaster..call it what you will, i call it scum.

Unvote vote pwnz

[Benmage]

^ I disagree with this shootem up strategy and dont see why u want to die.

[Benmage]

I agree ecto's case was valid from his POV, his case isn't the most troubling thing for me. But putting all that to one side Ben, what do you think of ecto's play? The above about wanting to re-read Vi is all stuff you have said before and doesn't really do anything for me. I understand about the re-reads, I am not asking for that right now. Just what is your opinion on him with his interaction with VP? Your comment about the fact he

could

fall 2nd on your list was so open ended. I want something solid.

o.O...thats the thing lol, i obviously dont have a solid read on him. His interactions with VPB dont say too much. A bunch about talking about the past and Vi and stuff than taking jabs at one another for misconstruing things.

Are you voting Ecto?

[Benmage]

Right right...what wuld u rather.. me ask an idiotic question i culd easily look up(go lazyness(forgot it was so recent....mod counts are rare)) or be like one of the many afkers.

We got what ConA, d3x, pwnz, and nacho all coasting this game...there obviously scum there. Theres always lurking scum.. Why we aren't startin with these.. i mean the game dies with activity.

[Benmage]

It is unfortunate. I didnt even realize how bad it is keeping myself busy with vp, iso reads etc...but 4 players with under 25 posts, and many not having posted for days... a game cant go on like this.

[Benmage]

We got what

ConA,

d3x, pwnz, and nacho all coasting this game...there obviously scum there. Theres always lurking scum.. Why we aren't startin with these.. i mean the game dies with activity.

put your money where your mouth is and lynch the fucker. to say "why arent' we startin' here?" is ridiculous. iv'e been there for a while now. if we don't lynch conA then it should be sotty or vp. they are obvious scum.

i did switch my vote to pwnz...at this point i'd lynch any of them(lurkers).

It is unfortunate. I didnt even realize how bad it is keeping myself busy with vp, iso reads etc...but 4 players with under 25 posts, and many not having posted for days... a game cant go on like this.

I prefer to think of my posting as efficient rather than deficient. *hic

Well other than being low, you bring nothing to the table. Have you had an original point yet?

[Benmage]

Amish went V/LA-Away 0 access. should be back, what Dec 8?..sucks i know. But we have 4 other lurkers/activelurkers/noncontributors.

VPB why only Ecto? I'd answer, or do you want his opinion alone?

[Benmage]

ben, you can answer if you'd like. I welcome all opinions, but I'm most interested in ecto. Feel free though.

Off top of my head, hes not of much concern when it comes to a lynch. I've liked things he's said, and thing there are many more stronger candidates.

Why do you propose him as a lynch candidate?

[Benmage]

would you like me to switch and put you at L-1?

scumday, you newb.

Ecto, amish is alrdy voting you/away so no worries there.

Still surprised you aint voting anyone. Porks atleast doing a reread.

unvote vote ConA.

Mighty, can you prod?

[Benmage]

unvote, vote: vpb

benmage, will you join us?

Godddddamnittttttt

Thats my main suspect, and you all keep running around.'


I'll vote VPB, or any of the 4 lurkers.

unvote vote vpb

[Benmage]

^^That is such a false misrepresentation which why you've never allieviated the pressure on you, you keep falling back to that one (true) statement.

Btw, when is the deadline? 3 days? Mods :arrow:

[Benmage]

Porkchop is also making the allegation that I am hypocritically attacking ben for not adding "original thought" to the wagons I've been on. While that is not what I was attacking ben over (I attacked him for not UNDERSTANDING the reasons presented against people and voting anyhow), let's look at what porkchop said earlier about ben and myself when the whole Confid wagon was happening.

Have you yielded yet that i fully understood why i was voting ConA?

[Benmage]

No, I don't believe you understand much of what has happened to this point, but Ecto is oozing scum and needs to be dealt with. You live to fight another day you waskly wabbit.

First of all i'm not even asking about a general understanding of the game...which is what i infer when you say "to this point"...which is simply off. I'm talking about my single vote on ConA. You dont think I understood why I voted ConA. Alone...Singly...Yes, or no for that.

[Benmage]

Ben what do you think of VP's post 627? You seemed to just ignore it. As for me I am happy with my vote on Ecto. We desperately need some mod power too

Where did i ignore it? I even steal a quote from it in 632...i read it... lol

[Benmage]

VP,

This is frustrating so its the last time i'll do this circle. But i said it was peculiar. I wanted ConA on my read of him alone to explain further.

Looking at the other votes, people all voted for the same "peculiar" thing i saw.

Then reading Amish i noticed this:

It's a sure sign of scum not wanting to vote for somebody (buddy, town, either way works; initially leaning towards town).

I hadn't seen it like this....people read things differently, amish's perspective brought to light this. I liked it. I joined the wagon to speed the interactions of ConA in explaining his peculiarity.

Besides if I had known the votes from the get-go were on ConA for his peculiar statement, I would've voted him on that basis alone in my first post after readin ConA....I wanted to get the info out of him, bottom line...and voting seemed the fastest way to get a response.

And whats happened to ConA sine than....he more or less fell off the radar completely...i bet if we started voting him, he'd come back.

[Benmage]

Ben I mean the huge chunk of it directed at Ecto. What do you think about what VP said about him? Why are you unwilling to vote Ecto?

VP makes some decent points...a lot of people showed distaste for ecto prior to his shooting. The shot obviously took me off guard. Hence my iso read of him.

VP dismisses the case, for it being after the fact....I dont. In fact i think its more townish as scum would be more careful and try to convince others before acting hastily...at least thats what i think....oh wifom.

No i dont want to vote ecto, just cause his wagon seems popular. VPB is my main suspect, i want to see him lynched.

However i despise inactivity and will vote any of the 4 lurkers.

Note: I clearly wont let the deadline hit without and lynch, and will even hammer if need be in the last few hours. But when is the deadline

[Benmage]

I dont. In fact i think its more townish as scum would be more careful and try to convince others before acting hastily...at least thats what i think....oh wifom.

so you basically wanted to lynch me earlier even though i was more likely town than scum?

Explain (quote fixed?)

[Benmage]

I dont. In fact i think its more townish as scum would be more careful and try to convince others before acting hastily...at least thats what i think....oh wifom.

so you basically wanted to lynch me earlier even though i was more likely town than scum?

Explain (quote fixed?)

no. you. you wanted me lynched earlier after i shot. according to this logic i was obvtown. we may have covered this already.

why don't you just hammer?

nonono..that aint the logic. Your shot was scummy. Ecto's shot was scummy. Thus my cause to read him in iso...he gives his case in iso 45 after the shot.

My only debate, which is pretty much wifom, and turns my brains to mush...was if giving the defense after or before shooting was scummy... I think the defense coming a bit after could have a slight town edge...but its a lot of wifom and i dont see it as a major issue.

didnt i give you a town lean several times and still desire your head? i thought we did cover this...

anyways is ecto L-1?

[Benmage]

unvote

apparently noone had the balls.

vote: sotty7

no balls...this is a terrible vote. your voting all over the place, and never giving a reason. thats not gonna convince anyone of anything.

[Benmage]

benmage: why should i have to "convince" anyone? i have a vote and i will use it as i please. i already explained why sotty is scum way back. please pay attention. further, according to your reasoning, my shot

couldn't be scummy

and yet you are contending that it was. whatever. if we're both here tomorrow i'm probably going to shoot you.

Usually to get others to see scum you have to campaign a little..unless its blatant, which in this case it isn't.

Did you not read what i just said about urs/ectos shot?

[Benmage]

Did you not read what i just said about urs/ectos shot?

yes. you wrote this first:

In fact i think its more townish as scum would be more careful.

being careful = scum. neither ecto nor my shot fell under the category of "careful. and yet:

Your shot was scummy. Ecto's shot was scummy.

were the shots scummy or not? if so, then how do you correlate your belief that scum would be more "careful" than town?

If you're going to quote it, quote the whole thing in its full context:

VP dismisses the case, for it being after the fact....I dont. In fact i think its more townish as scum would be more careful and try to convince others before acting hastily...at least thats what i think....oh wifom.

This is clearly referencing forming a case after the shot...and whether or not this would be scummier or townier. I think in this incident its more of a town tell... It's a lot of wifom mush...so not very strong overall.

That said, yeah you both acted hastily. You never gave a case as far as I recall..may be wrong, dont really remember.

I think your defense was something along the lines of "scum wouldnt come out and shoot so blatantly" or VPB said this, or backed this belief up. While true sometimes, it isn't always the case. Its a ton of wifom and altogether null.

I'm not dwelling on it. However blatantly shooting someone i had a town read on was scummy as hell. Thats why your shot and ecto's shot was scummy. Ecto provided a case..i wanted to iso you to see if there was more to why you shot.

[Benmage]

I think its wack Vi is replacing in...but thats just me, with the deadline so close, i guess i understand...whatever MM's doing their best.

[Benmage]

Wow nacho, lol...welcome back.. and i guess understandable, but why not just vote...a shooting mayham will be bad, and deadline is close.

[Benmage]

Wait Vi's just a mod, or replacing d3x....and amished said he was going away and would be back the 8th(?) if i recall.

[Benmage]

how come d3x isnt in the vote count, is he being replaced?

[Benmage]

Nor is ConA...both getting replaced?

[Benmage]

Wow

unvote

i dont see ecto and vpb goin so hard at eachother as partners...there goes my #1 read.

[Benmage]

I did post since the flip...there is little todo until replacements occur/weigh in.

[Benmage]

Actually, you could figure out who the scum is since you've done nothing but tunnel on me for most of the game and now are being forced to eat humble pie. Surely you have plenty to reassess and give opinions on now that you've seen Ecto's flip.

Ya i need to re-asses things, so gimmie some time. I did a meager half read of dj, so i guess i'll finish that and move from there. Not sure where to really turn. Regardless....we still need replacements to occur/catchup and do something.

[Benmage]

Or we could lynch scum PorkchopExpress. I'll probably be dead tonight anyhow, so you guys should actually listen to me for the rest of the day.

I'll look into this.

[Benmage]

wow, how did he read so quickly to confirm that shot?

[Benmage]

how does what feel?

I also just remembered something prior about Amished...I think he might flip town actually. I want to hear from him first, but I think I know what his role might be.

Amish is flippin town. That shot was disgusting.

vote Cobalt

[Benmage]

Honestly, I think our best play since Cobalt's idiotic shot is to go No Lynch for today. We would have been even before that and could have lynched safely, but I think Amished will flip town and that puts us at a disadvantage now. Mislynching today could spell very bad news overnight.

Vote: No Lynch

We have 1 scum dead..1 town. Soon to be two town. If we hypothetically mislynch we have 3 town dead. Entering tomorrow (assuming no night vigs, no sk, and assuming mafia have nk's which shouldnt be absolute, because we now see they can dayshoot) we have 4 town dead. That's 5 total from a starting 12...with 2 scum remaining. Giving us 7 remaining and a 5-2 ratio...That isn't that bad, nor is it lylo.

I dont think we should no lynch.

[Benmage]

Also, if we hit scum the game is all but won.

[Benmage]

where the hell is confid?

Cobalt replaced him

[Benmage]

We have 1 scum dead..1 town. Soon to be two town. If we hypothetically mislynch we have 3 town dead. Entering tomorrow

(assuming no night vigs, no sk, and assuming mafia have nk's which shouldnt be absolute

, because we now see they can dayshoot) we have 4 town dead. That's 5 total from a starting 12...with 2 scum remaining. Giving us 7 remaining and a 5-2 ratio...That isn't that bad, nor is it lylo.

I've bolded the problems with your plan. I'd rather not make a whole bunch of assumptions about what is going to happen over night until we see it. Also, don't assume the morons in this game aren't going to immediately start shooting people in the morning and thus auto lose the game.

I may be willing to change my mind if I really get the feeling someone is scum, but until that happens I think erring on the side of caution is the proper play at the moment.

Fine. If Amish flips town. I wont oppose a no lynch. I'd rather a lurker lynch...but whatever. 1 night to see what happens does seem smarter. And yes I worry about everyone still blowin everyone away.

[Benmage]

Is 768 ^^^ that, at me?

[Benmage]

Hilarity ensues. It was a faked daykill. I don't have any bullets. Let's lynch VP now.
Benmage, you didn't tell me what your win condition is.

To lynch you.

[Benmage]

Hm, it seems like such a simple question to answer. Any town role could do it in a heartbeat. Why are you being evasive?

Because if i was trying to break the game theres others i'd prefer to use this on.

I tried this strategy in my last game...one one of my last games, and the mod gave different worded WC's to the town...soooo...

Here, Cobalt, what is you WC?

[Benmage]

Well, it was obvious that town didn't get wincons, and VP was trying to fake one. But Vi just PMed me a wincon. THANKS. There goes that theory.

unvote vote benmage

You make no sense. If you got a pm giving you a WC, you'd be voting DJ.

I have a WC, and its most closely like what VPB said.

[Benmage]

Well, it was obvious that town didn't get wincons, and VP was trying to fake one. But Vi just PMed me a wincon. THANKS. There goes that theory.

unvote vote benmage

You make no sense. If you got a pm giving you a WC, you'd be voting DJ.

I have a WC, and its most closely like what VPB said.

oh yeah, forgot that bit

unvote vote DJ

Lol

unvote vote Dj

[Benmage]

Okay. We have only two days left till deadline. With the Amished kill being fake, I think we should lynch the d3x player slot. He posted in his other game yesterday and I think he is more likely to be scum than any of the other lurkers. Pretty much all of the active posters I believe to probably be town for one reason or another. I could probably do a Don lynch, but he has flashes of townie at times to me.

Vote: d3x

I despise lurkers, and would lynch him...or even pwnz for his useless active lurkin/coasting...

DJ looks good tho.

[Benmage]

unvote, vote: sotty7

p.s. cobalt is now obvtown.

after post 792, you write this...ok.

[Benmage]

lol, want me to double check?

[Benmage]

it's pretty obv VP is town
sotty and benmage are prolly scum.

You're still baffling me...how did this conclusion get drawn to? I didnt follow your vote brigade...i told you, you were incorrect.

[Benmage]

I'm thinkin one of the non contributors must be scum.

[Benmage]

VPB which game with PE?

[Benmage]

my set up speculation is 2 cowboys and a sheriff against the town, btw. otherwise we could have three cowboys and the sheriff could be a "traitor" role, but given the killing mechanics i think that would unbalance the game.

I actually agree with you here. I think the scum group is some compilation similar to this with the sherriff potentially being a third party (maybe, though flavor indicates otherwise).

The sheriff is probably the gf or something in this flavor. Invest immune makes sense.

[Benmage]

I don't understand that at all. Amished, I want to hear from you first.

Expand.

[Benmage]

I think we should do 1 daykill and a lynch today, assuming we have 3 scum.

Where's that leave us worst case scenario wise...entering tomorrow, assuming one NK and all killed are town?

We have 9 alive...so its likely 7-2.

If we miss twice today and they kill another we enter D3 with 6 players, 4 town 2 scum. Majority 4 to lynch....thats sort've lylo for if we mislynch again and they NK we'd enter D4 2town2scum.

[Benmage]

We have 8 alive, Ben. And why would you think it's 2 scum?

Oh shit we have 8, not nine alive. One scums dead, i said 2 scum remaining.

[Benmage]

Also, just so you know, I think we could very easily have had 4 scum at the start of this game giving the killing power of the town + a cop.

Possible, but is this likely if they all shoot the way ecto did?

4 means if D1 we mislynch they NK, and enter D2 all shoot theres 6 alive with 4 scum, and an easy win.

[Benmage]

Yeah VP, you're makin my head hurt. Day and NK scum tho is pretty powerful.

[Benmage]

Hi Jazzmyn.

@ben-I agree it's powerful...but so is a cop/doc combo (if Cobalt is telling the truth).

Why are you auto-assuming marshal = cop?

[Benmage]

Porkchop-who's scum in your mind now that we've had some flips? I think it's a pretty small list to choose from at this point, but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

let's hear you're top.

[Benmage]

I'll give my thoughts when I'm good and ready, thanks.

And if Pork gives the same response to you....

Jazz looks good, a huge plus over d3x.

[Benmage]

making excuses for low activity before she's even posted anything of content looks good to you?

anything is better than d3x, and i like the effort in catching up she talked about.

[Benmage]

It doesn't go by pages. It goes by days. Also, how about some thoughts.

After doing some thinking, I am leaning that the remaining scums are in: Jazzmyn, nachomamma and pwnz. Benmage as a substitute if I'm way off.

How does that strike you or what are your thoughts? (anyone can answer this)

i like this...no need to substitute, and keep nacho in, not amish.

[Benmage]

What is giving you a town read from d3x specifically?

word. this

[Benmage]

scum is in amished/nacho/ben/jazz, dunno about pwnz.

Wow, way to name everyone but vpb.

[Benmage]

Oh and Pork

[Benmage]

Go get em VP! (note to self, mock vpb early to awake the dragon)