Newbie 893 - Newbieland! (GAME OVER)

[RayFrost]

/confirmed

Hi all, I'm your friendly neighborhood SE, and I will do my best to explain relevant game theory and tactics when necessary. If you have any questions, then feel free to ask me!

Also,

@Reckoner: You should include "X, anonymous park goer, murdered N0" or something like that.

[RayFrost]

First off, you shouldn't talk about ongoing games.

[RayFrost]

You aren't supposed to reference them at all, yes.

Once a game is over, feel free to talk about it, but it is otherwise not cool.

[RayFrost]

Vote: Honest Abel

Avatar (mafia goon type) and username (honest person) don't match, so he's obv not honest, and scum are dishonest, making him scum.

[RayFrost]

I was born in Cali.

[RayFrost]

Sensitive to a second vote (third vote = bandwagon, not any sooner)?

*speaks into combat radio* I think we've got scum here, requesting back up.

[RayFrost]

unvote, vote: hetemens

bandwagon good.

[RayFrost]

Pommy Pom Pom Pome, I hope you aren't subscribing to the "third vote on somebody is scum" newsletter of fail.

Also, check MD.

Wagons r guud.

[RayFrost]

third vote = bandwagon,

not

third vote = scum

lerntooreed

[RayFrost]

I was talking about honest abel.

For him being worried about a second vote.

How much confidence do you

really

think I have with that?

[RayFrost]

My vote was cuz he[insertrestofusernamehere] needs 2 posteh

[RayFrost]

PPPP is appealing to fear.

Stupid, the scumteam must be, to lynch at l-2.

Scum doing so would lead to town win.

In fact, I'd

love it

if scum did that just once.

And town that did it would have to be retarded.

So yeh.

[RayFrost]

Eh, worrying about l-2 is foolishness.

[RayFrost]

Sorry Madame, I Should Not Dare To Disagree With You.

I Will Refrain From Doing So In The Future.

[RayFrost]

After All, You Are Right, And There Is No Way That I Could Possibly Be Correct.

[RayFrost]

After All, A Domineering Personality That Is So Obviously Unnecessary Will Have No Adverse Effects Upon Quality Of Play, Especially When The Personality In Question Is Also Stubborn And Unwilling To Compromise Or Admit Incorrectness.

[RayFrost]

Of Course, As You Are The IC, You Are Infallible, And, As Such, We Should All Follow Every Word You Say And Bow Down To Your Great And Immense Experience In The Field Of Successful Mafia Playing.

Please Teach Us, Oh Wise One.

[RayFrost]

On Another Note, Your Unwillingness To Have A Debate Regarding The Relative Risks Of L-2 Show A Few Things, Such As That You Intend To Maintain An Aura Of "I Am Always Right," Which Is A Very Effective Shield For Scum To Hide Behind In A Newbie Game.

Unvote, Vote: Pomegranate

[RayFrost]

^-- False Dichotomy In That It Is Not Required That PPPP And Myself Be Of Opposing Alignments.

[RayFrost]

There Is A Certain Point In Time Where I Become Annoyed And Or Frustrated.

By Typing With The First Letter Of Each Word Capitalized, I Am Able To Maintain More Control Over Myself, As It Slows My Typing Speed Considerably.

In Addition, I Would Like To Request That ThetaSigma Provide Valuable Content And Aid In Scumhunting.

I Dislike That Pomegranate Has Misconstrued / Misrepresnted What I Said To Mean That She Is Using Her Status As IC To Proivde Immunity.

I Was Being Sarcastic In That

Singular

Post.

What I Posted Afterward Is More My Issue With What She Has Displayed.

By Being Extremely Aggressive And Domineering, It Is Very Easy To Cause People (Particularly Newbies) To Back Down From An Argument.

In Addition, It Can Be Relatively Simple To Play Aggressively And Seem To Be Actively Scumhunting When You Are Just Taking An Abrasive Tone With Small Attacks On Individuals.

I Do Not Find It Helpful For Town To Be Domineering In This Way. Although I Do Not Know If Pomegranate Intends To Do This, I Feel That It Is Important To Make The Possibility Known Before It Happens.

[RayFrost]

Unvote, Vote: RayFrost

I Find That Votes Without Reason Past The Random Voting Stage Are Of Poor Value, As They Provide No Reasoning With Which To Convince The Town.

Care To State Your Reasons For Believing That I Am Scum?

[RayFrost]

unvote, vote: thetasigma

As I'm less annoyed with Pome right now, I'd like to point out that theta just

admitted

to wanting to avoid attention / not helping in scumhunting / not providing content deliberately.

I find this is scummy for a few reasons that I Feel are obvious but will state regardless.

1. Scum wish to avoid negative attention (newb-scum may extend this to -all- attention)

2. Scum wish to get mislynches while not actually being a direct part of it so as to avoid blame

3. Scum don't need to scumhunt, so they don't try to help even if they try to seem like it.

[RayFrost]

Noice misuse of ad hominem.

Anyway...

your reaction in the first bit nullifies the scumminess of your reaction in the second and third bits.

I'm annoyed by my lack of pro-town reads this late in the game...

[RayFrost]

I'm too lazy to repeat what has already been said

[RayFrost]

I never said that you had interest in saying I was scum.

It wasn't even part of my reasoning for voting you.

Noice misrepesentation of what I said, though.

[RayFrost]

unvote, vote: thetasigma

As I'm less annoyed with Pome right now, I'd like to point out that theta just

admitted

to wanting to avoid attention / not helping in scumhunting / not providing content deliberately.

I find this is scummy for a few reasons that I Feel are obvious but will state regardless.

1. Scum wish to avoid negative attention (newb-scum may extend this to -all- attention)

2. Scum wish to get mislynches while not actually being a direct part of it so as to avoid blame

3. Scum don't need to scumhunt, so they don't try to help even if they try to seem like it.

None of this has anything to do with your vote on me.

At all.

In any way.

[RayFrost]

That was in relation to "helping in the lynch of an innocent" comment.

Also, subtle saying I'm an idiot is noted.

[RayFrost]

I prefer rho.

[RayFrost]

You'd have fit right into [ongoing game reference omitted - Ray]

[RayFrost]

I feel that lurkers = scummy. Activity is good.

I feel that vap's vote is lolfail, but I don't really feel like going through the effort of showing how it fails, as it would likely make him go "SEE! HE THINKS IM SCUMMY 4 VOTING HIM!!!11!!!"

[RayFrost]

Hetemens' vote is just as bad as vap's vote.

I changed my attention to theta before she could even post, so that's terrible reasoning.

[RayFrost]

You got the saying wrong.

Also, your vote is still bad.

[RayFrost]

The above should be taken with a grain of salt.

There was quite a bit of talk in the thread where that was posted that expands and adjusts the view on the tells.

[RayFrost]

Dictionary of "tells"

[RayFrost]

No problem.

[RayFrost]

First things first.

I'm aggressive.

Get over it.

If you want to see a game with me-town that was aggressive, I could give you two games that completed within the past week.

Another thing... the SE and IC individuals are

forbidden

from lying about things like how many scum / town are in the game, what scumhunting entails, etc.

We must be honest about that, and it'd be lame to lie about it to win (lame, mean-spirited, cheap, etc). It's far more exciting to win of your own skill than by lying to some newbies about how to play, y'know?

[RayFrost]

thetasigma - it's easier to say he over she and him over her.

In addition, they is rather awkward.

For purpose of clarity, are you male or female?

Anyway, college classes are starting up (As in they started yesterday), so my time = less

[RayFrost]

Claiming gives opportunities to avoid lynching a power role.

For example...

Pom claims cop, we go "okay" and don't lynch pom unless we get a counter claim or something similar.

We then don't lynch a townie.

In games that are flavor-heavy, etc, claims serve a far more expansive purpose.

[RayFrost]

VT is a common scum claim, yes.

To be honest, there are threads in mafia discussion where people say that you should lynch the person you've run up regardless of their claim.

I'm not one to support a measure

that

extreme, but a vanilla townie claim usually does nothing to prevent a lynch.

[RayFrost]

I did notice the massive amount of sarcasm...

[RayFrost]

Laws of the IC and SE players

[RayFrost]

Word choice is not indicative of alignment in this specific case.

Word choice in other cases may have bearing, but you need not worry about that for the time being.

[RayFrost]

I find that every one of the [pokemon]age people have shown some sign of relatively poor play, so I feel a bit of lenience toward vapor.

I, personally, believe that vapor is jumpy, overexcited town rather than scum that is backing off when suspicion is placed upon him for the l-1.

[RayFrost]

Nikanor is stalking me.

obv scum.

[RayFrost]

re nikanor:

I've got my eye on Riza

unvote, vote: Riza

recent posts have just been agreeing with others without really providing personal analysis.

earlier posts aren't that great either, mix of easy vote then unvoting a post later (by riz, not in total) for something riz didn't find enough before. This is backtracking, savvy?

That about sums it up. I feel there's little content from riz. Also a bit of fencesitting regarding a read on me. Riza is scum, savvy?

Also, nikanor, care to say how I've been active lurking?

[RayFrost]

Welcome Nika. Once you're caught up I'd like to know your stance on everything.

I, personally, believe that vapor is jumpy, overexcited town rather than scum that is backing off when suspicion is placed upon him for the l-1.

Is there a reason for this distinction or is it just gut?

And is Theta still your top?

Waiting on a Vapo defense.

Gut.

[RayFrost]

Oh, you mean the time when I was

starting my classes

?

Yeah, I was really busy during that time.

[RayFrost]

lol.

I play to have fun, and winning is a side-joint

If I can't be myself while playing, I see little value in playing.

@ Nikanor:

Are you seriously saying that the guy with the highest PPD isn't post-whoring? Come on, you know me better than that.

Anyways, gimme a bit.

[RayFrost]

Contrast this post with this other post, which are directly after each other. This is the backtracking I was speaking about.

Says one opinion but quickly changes from it to another opinion

based off the same post

.

This is fencesitting in regards to me

[RayFrost]

Fencesitting is scummy in that scum wish to keep their options open and not devote to a side until they know which side will "win" so to speak.

Backtracking is scummy as scum are less confident in their reads, which causes them to more easily change their viewpoints.

[RayFrost]

Current feeling on vapor:

Low. As in scummy. As in the vote on riza after I vote seems like an attempt to follow me. As in I dislike being tied to somebody like this. As in Vapor would be prob scum for this maneuver if vapor were good. >.>"

On the other hand, VI = vapor, which is my current belief.

He' be a lynch I'd be fine with, but I'd prefer a lynch elsewhere, savvy?

[RayFrost]

Vi is village idiot.

It's a term for townies that fail at doing anything useful.

[RayFrost]

VI is Village Idiot.

It's a term for townies that fail at doing anything useful.

Fixed.

Vi is a player that is certainly

not

a VI.

[RayFrost]

If you voted for Vaporeonage, can you give me a

concise

explanation of your vote?

Anyone who didn't vote for him, can you give me your concise view on why others have voted for him and why you think they are wrong?

I know I could go back and read, but I often feel like my interpretations get muddled by the distance between posts and all the reasoning that goes on between them, and I hope this can generate some discussion about our L-2, here.

Why don't you answer your own question?

Chauchau: reasoning with votes is tech.

[RayFrost]

If you feel that way about Pom but not me, would you disagree with nikanor's assessment, or have you not looked into me enough to determine for yourself?

Who else do you think is scum?

[RayFrost]

Theta is a town read for me, atm.

[RayFrost]

If you voted for Vaporeonage, can you give me a

concise

explanation of your vote?

Anyone who didn't vote for him, can you give me your concise view on why others have voted for him and why you think they are wrong?

I know I could go back and read, but I often feel like my interpretations get muddled by the distance between posts and all the reasoning that goes on between them, and I hope this can generate some discussion about our L-2, here.

Why don't you answer your own question?

Waiting on this.

The thread needs more nikanor as well.

[RayFrost]

Why don't you answer your own question?

Most of Vaporeon's posts slipped under my nose because of how short they were, so I never really paid much attention to them. Then I noticed he/she was L-2, so my first response was to ask everyone "Why?" because it was quicker than re-reading the whole day in light of Vaporeon's contributions. Then I went to NYC for a couple days, which I probably should have mentioned beforehand. I found some of the responses quite helpful (obviously not yours, since you completely avoided the question) and found some faults with others (sorry, Pom, I think I disagree on some of your points) and I will explain my thoughts on Vaporeon and the responses I got as soon as I go over his/her posts myself, which should happen before the end of the night.

My reason for not voting is due to the fact every [pokemon]age I've played with has been fail in epic proportions.

They are a bunch of VIs, which makes it hard as fook to read them.

Thus, I've chalked vap to VI, not scum, ftm.

[RayFrost]

VI can be any real role - it is more a sign the person is inept than a sign of their role.

[RayFrost]

Pome, I think that vapo would be one of those easy mislynch types.

Hard to read as VI doesn't mean it is impossible.

I'll get a read on him.

[RayFrost]

Well, here's the thing.

Would you rather lynch active-scum or a guy you aren't even sure is scum?

Would you rather lynch him when you have no better alternatives or take a wild stab at one of those that may actually be useful to the town?

Would you rather lynch a guy that's served no real value to the town but no real value to the scum now or the day everybody but him seems town?

Currently, if you have other scum reads, I think it'd be better spent pursuing those.

A VI-scum will do as well under pressure as VI-town... as in not reacting at all.

Active-scum or Active-town will provide you with some kind of read when pressured.

[RayFrost]

Boo yah, sainty is in this game, and so is MME!!!!

This is becoming quite the player list of people I know/like

[RayFrost]

Yah, it's been a while.

[RayFrost]

MME:

You have nothing to say about me that's "notable" so far?

This is a blow to my image of self-importance and self-worth...

[RayFrost]

Ehhh... I see nothing wrong with your style. It makes you very transparent (good for town to be, which is my read on you), which helps in limiting who the scum are.

Also, the game of mafia isn't about being nice or being an asshole. It's about finding the scum / avoiding being caught / just surviving / getting lynched / other win condition here.

Of course, if

you

don't like your playstyle, you are completely justified in changing it.

To be honest, my playstyle is (from what I understand of myself) a collection of the following...:

1. hyper aggression and hyperactivity that borders on insanity and has very little reasoning for it

2. moments of clarity in which I manage to post such pure and concentrated awesome that I've been night killed for fear of it.

3. doing nothing of value

[RayFrost]

You have only turned on the TV (tunnel vision) when you refuse to accept any kind of defense for the person as a reason to alleviate them being scummy while also refusing to analyze anybody else as scum.

It's a complete focus upon the belief that

this person

is scum no matter what people say and you intend to prove it!

Otherwise, it's just dogged determination, which is completely fine.

Mod: would you be so kind as to provide a votecount as well as to prod nikanor?

[RayFrost]

MME, if you see nothing notable, do you mean "notably scummy" or notable in general?

[RayFrost]

bah, thought I'd posted !.!

[RayFrost]

I like the

gayle

riza case.

vote:

gayle

riza

[RayFrost]

Oh.

then that's my double vote. to reinforce my opinion

[RayFrost]

Horribly skewed.

I'm afraid to vote gayle due to this one time at band camp where gayle mooned me while I was on a date... it ruined the date. Gayle with a grudge against you ruins your chances of getting laid.

[RayFrost]

Hey!

I'm always smug.

Except

when I'm scum.

Especially with quick lynches when I'm scum.

Then I'm freaking the fook out.

[RayFrost]

And I (hopefully) won't get NKed N1... fo serious.

[RayFrost]

Same game, and I was killed N1

[RayFrost]

omgomgomg, guys, I just got turned into a daycop! who should I investigate? omgomg!!!11!foneone!

okay, for serious, MME is right.

[RayFrost]

I agree with nikanor about sainty's case.

I don't see why MME thinks gayle is scummy, going to have to wait for that case.

Gayle's generic "all people on teh wagon is r scummy" seems to be a very weak basis for suspecting individuals. It's too generic.

Anyway, need to reread the thread after my v/la

[RayFrost]

Oh, okay.

I'll look into that.

[RayFrost]

So...

you didn't read my reasoning for the first vote, I guess.

you believe MME's reasons were contrived

nikanor is scum

pome is scum

chau is a dragqueen.

Why are you voting MME out of the others?

[RayFrost]

Gayle, I so often forget where my vote is that I unvote and revote people I was voting without even realizing it.

[RayFrost]

I have to say, guys, that Gayle has more of the right of this debacle than any of you (Save chau who isn't really part of the debacle that much).

Gayle, don't be an arse just cuz you are right, though.

It detracts from what you are actually saying.

[RayFrost]

I'm having difficulty reading the line up.

Currently have neutral reads at best.

My worst neutral read is on Sainty, since I forgot he was even in this game.

Mod: Prod Saint Kerrigan please?

[RayFrost]

MME, read the last two sentences of the post just before Chau's.

[RayFrost]

Kids, listen to mommy (chau) and go do something productive. Enough fighting.

[RayFrost]

How is it that my suspect picks match both of your lists?

SERIOUSLY! >.<

[RayFrost]

@RayFrost: You think Pom and Nikanor are the scum right? Is this because they are both independently scummy?

I don't think that it is necessary for

both

to be scum. Also, I don't think Pome is scummy. It was sainty that I was giving the evil eye.

I feel that they are the most likely to be scum individually, but I don't think they are scum together at this time.

I'd be fine with a lynch of either saintkerrigan (slightly preferred) or nikanor.

[RayFrost]

@RFrost:

Why did you want SK (the lurker) lynched over Nik (the active lurker)?

I didn't have a particular preference. I voted SK because he popped into mind first.

Have I unvoted yet?

Just to make sure...

unvote

not going to vote nikanor until I check a VC on his vote count.

Don't want to repeat certain... errors.

[RayFrost]

@RFrost:

Why did you want SK (the lurker) lynched over Nik (the active lurker)?

I didn't have a particular preference. I voted SK because he popped into mind first.

I'd be fine with a lynch of either saintkerrigan (slightly preferred) or nikanor.

Forgive my confusion but in your last post you said you slightly prefered a SK lynch rather then a Nik lynch no? Thus it would seem to me you do have a particular prefrence, that or I'm reading too much into your wording.

Only due to my vote being there and my being a lazy mofo.

[RayFrost]

Sadly, I feel a desire to request replacement here... game I'm least motivated in posting is this one. Now, now, don't cry. It's not your fault that I think you are all evil and obv scum and can't decide which of you to dayvig. Oh, wait, wrong game.

srsly, though, I really come to this thread and just think 'fuck it' every time.

Parting gift will be an analysis from me, for seriousy.

A home-made Get Myself Lynched LoS.

It's patented.

[RayFrost]

Woohoo, if only I was the type to lazy out of this and self-hammer.

Anyway, I'll get you guys a good post soon if I can manage to do it in under half an hour.

If not, it'll take a few hours due to things I need to do by 2 pm.

[RayFrost]

this game dropped to the bottom of my watched topic list ~.~

[RayFrost]

Anyway, I don't have anything valuable to claim, etc.

I AM GOD, EMPREROR SUN! /reference

I'm this undead emperor using the water dragon's heart in order to continue to live past my designated time. I'm also sapping her mighty powers for my own.

Unfortunately, I got owned by the heroes, so now I'm just this feeble old man in the spirit world with a bunch of angry spirits that want to eat me.

So I'm basically powerless against that which to do me harm.

[RayFrost]

Jade Empire?

/winner

[RayFrost]

Hmmm...

I'm the only one voting.

Well, if it's between me (town) or Pom (unknown)...

Yeh.

vote: pomegranate

[RayFrost]

@Everyone:

I've noticed a problem, mainly that RayFrost hasn't been lynched yet. Please help me rectify this.

...

and no vote

helloooooooooo obv scum

Vote: TheButtonmen

[RayFrost]

oh snap, lylo. >.<

forgot.

unvote

[RayFrost]

Well, I do have my gut read on RF. But my gut has been wrong before, lol. And I did feel more scum vibes from SK than from Nikanor, however, BM has given me the opposite.

It's between BM-Nik-RF for me.

Nikanor, your top scum please. Same goes for RF and BM, although I don't expect anything from RF.

scummiest

thebuttonmen

next up

nikanor

after that

nobody, I think you and gayle are town

[RayFrost]

Actually, I was thinking of spoiling neverwinter knights next.

[RayFrost]

Nah, I'm more of a video game spoiler, so I'd say 'Jak is Mar, and his father is the king of the desert place'

[RayFrost]

I don't get which game you are spoiling, gayle.

TBM, already beat mario.

Now... for a complete spoiler of a game...

In disgaea, vyers is actually laharl's father reborn, seraph lamington wanted to form a treaty between celestia and the netherworld, vulcanis gets turned into a flower, laharl becomes overlord, and kurtis becomes a prinny that doesn't explode when thrown

[RayFrost]

On a more for serious note:

We ready to lynch RayFrost?

Obligitory Spoiler: It's Kerrigan inside the chrysalis.

FFUUUU

I started playing starcraft recently.

[RayFrost]

"RayFrost is from 4chan" theory confirmed.

Actually, only been to 4chan once, and that was when nuwen linked to a post that gave out her information in a thread on MS.

[RayFrost]

Also,

vote: thebuttonmen

[RayFrost]

roflmao

[RayFrost]

roflmao

I'll have a statue of you put up or something.

Good, good.

Have the plaque say 'RayFrost, the undead winner'

[RayFrost]

Hahahahaha.

I modded a game off-site that was 'FrostTopia' - an amusement park

[RayFrost]

Thanks for the game y'all. I stuck around and kept up with it.... what a mess.

I was really that town? T_T d'aww.

I am, however, fail at this mafia thing. So thanks for putting up with me. And Ray, thanks for [ongoing omission]. Your comments, much appreciated and made me go 'aww'.

Btw. Theta's a girl.

^.^" sorry about the gender thing.

As it is, you were doing quite well.

mafia qt: http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/rAbV5stKxr8HB

[RayFrost]

I think one issue is that you give up a tad easily

[RayFrost]

Awwwww, we've lost a newbie...

[RayFrost]

I've had an upswing in the number of games I'm scum in.

It's really annoying.

I used to enjoy being town in all of my games and now I'm scum in increasing quantities.