Last Will Mafia (Over)

[CryMeARiver]

Ghandi was resurrected, then killed again
And no matter what, carrot top won this game since he was a jester: sorry Neto

Vote: raider8169

for being a raiders fan

I

Elect: DrPepper

for the double vote because he is amazingly delicious

[CryMeARiver]

well I'll keep my random vote on DrPepper for being awesome till we get something going

[CryMeARiver]

Hello, everyone. No vote right now.

On a side note, this is probably pretty obvious, but it's probably a good idea for people to not talk about their "lists" in thread at this point, since making that information public just makes it easier for scum to manipulate the game through nightkills (IE: killing someone who has a scum on top of their list to get their votes themselves, or if that's too obvious, killing someone to increase the voting power of their "pet townie".)

Talking about strategy, that whole "mafia win if they control half the votes" thing is also kind of scary, in the rules. If things go badly, town could lose really, really early because of that; say 25% of the people in the game is scum, which would make 6 people. That means scum control 6 votes out of 25 on day 1 (25 because of the double voter.)

That means that if the 7 townies die, or the double voter and 5 other townies die, and if the scum get control of all those votes, the scum end up with 13 votes. Which means that town could lose as early as day 3; even sooner if there's more then one kill a night.

I guess the best way to avoid that might be to try and keep our votes spread out, at least until we have a confirmed innocent to give them to; we don't want to put all our votes into one giant stack-of-doom and then have that person either be scum or accidentally give it all to a scum when they die. So if you see someone having control of a bunch of votes, you might want to move someone else to the top of your list. (Again, though, don't tell us when you do it).

Yeah, but I have yet to see a scum faction in any game over 4 people...if there is 6 or 7 as you say, I would think ti would be spread out over 2 factions, don't ya think? I personally joined this game for two reasons: I have played with quite a few of the people and I thought it would be an easy win in the books as town or an interesting game as scum with the difference in way scum wins...so I disagree that its easier for scum to win and expect this to be an easy win in the books

[CryMeARiver]

For starters, I don't like Yos' post. Most of that is fairly standard stuff and doesn't seem necessary to post. I can only assume it was done because he wanted to seem more pro town to gain votes. Not something I can go off of right now, but I will not be voting for Yos to receive the double vote.


Seeing as what we are going for here is to find at least one unanimous person that we can consider town, I suggest we don't random vote it. I don't know very many people on the player list but for those of you who do know, please don't go off meta. If anything, a good player is not who should receive the vote because a good scum player with a double vote does not balance out a good town player with a double vote, imo.

Thoughts so far?

Meta and random are the only choices right now...I will act later on the info we gain in these 5 days

[CryMeARiver]

Unvote

[CryMeARiver]

Things I find Scummy

• raider Archon wanting hp[leaves] as mayor for using dice
  
• tate's further reaction to Yosarian2
  
• tate's patronizing of the other players
  
• tate's defeatism
  
• Gayle getting creeped out by Yosarian2
  
• Cry unvoting without contributing
  
• viking implying that FOS are currently useless
  
• hp jumping on the strongest bandwagon

Things I find Weird

• Ray faking a daykill to get reactions

Things I find Townie

• Ray's correct identification of the dice random voters
  
• Netopalis analysis of the NO YOS MAYOR paranoia
  
• Yos warning the town it could lose by Day 3

Conclusions

• tate is prob scum
  
• My vote on Yos stays

I unvoted without contributing because u guys won't let me catch up...everytime I get close to finishing the thread, there are 2 more pages...holy crap

[CryMeARiver]

I think this should be truly random...since I have the feeling that tatetothetot has a good chance of being daylynched day 1 for somethings that have happened, I place my vote on him

Vote: tatetothetot

But someone please give me a good reason right now so I can hammer (theoretically of course) Yosarian and we can get this game started

If I was voting the best player, I would vote RayFrost, but he's asked numerously not to be voted for this

[CryMeARiver]

unvote, vote: yos2

RayFrost's patented "Hammer out of Nowhere" technique.

To which I experienced firsthand

[CryMeARiver]

Wow...strategies often fail...Ok, I'm gonna come straight, I'm usually rather active on the site, the reason I wasn't active during the double vote session is because I'm still rather new to the site and didn't feel I could handle the responsibility of multiple votes early in the game...kinda curious how this blew up in my face, but thanks for the multiple votes I guess! Thanks for painting a target on my back tate!

Ok, analysis of night...
3 deaths = 2 scum teams and a third party or 3 scum teams...never come across 3 scum teams, not sure how often this could actually happen...it usually helps when the mod posts how they died to keep track throughout the game...I was hoping a doctor would find the sense to protect Yos since we trusted him with out double vote, but either this didn't happen or the mafia/3rd party has some kind of power to go through the protections (is there a antitown role like that?) Interesting that Tate left his vote for me...perhaps because I placed my vote on the double vote on him and he's trying to frame me? Not sure, there is so much WIFOM in the reasoning of the will

ZEEnon is definitely my #1 candidate for a lynch right now...Lets run through his posts, shall we?

Vote: tatetothetot

Explanation:

You, mainly because of this:

tatetothetot wrote:
For starters, I don't like Yos' post. Most of that is fairly standard stuff and doesn't seem necessary to post. I can only assume it was done because he wanted to seem more pro town to gain votes. Not something I can go off of right now, but I will not be voting for Yos to receive the double vote.

Due to the fact that you had the exact same mindset while reading that post of his.

This is a lame reason, and I understand, most of us didn't have great reasons at first...this was page 2 and early...lets move on, shall we?

Less voting Yosarian2 for being smart and more voting tatetothetot for being town please.

This post I absolutely hate, he is clearly buddying with tate and doesn't explain his reason for not like Yos...And especially now that tate flipped scum, this is a HUGE red flag in my mind...though I have misunderstood jokes to be serious in the past, I see no joke in this at all...And the fact that tate doesn't respond to this at all, makes it more scummish IMO...even if it was a joke, you would expect his opinion to change with new info...we'll see...Next post...

Oh hi. No school/work tomorrow due to family day so expect a read/post from me.

This is great...except for the fact that this was his last post...he never provides any "read" for us...and if his vote for tate and push for tate was a joke, he doesn't indicate this by changing his vote...and he never indicates that he voted for tate based on playing with him in a previous game and liking his play...This is before I've read anything since the day started, but till I read that...

Vote: ZEEnon

This is great, e

[CryMeARiver]

Wow...strategies often fail...Ok, I'm gonna come straight, I'm usually rather active on the site, the reason I wasn't active during the double vote session is because I'm still rather new to the site and didn't feel I could handle the responsibility of multiple votes early in the game...kinda curious how this blew up in my face, but thanks for the multiple votes I guess! Thanks for painting a target on my back tate!

Ok, analysis of night...
3 deaths = 2 scum teams and a third party or 3 scum teams...never come across 3 scum teams, not sure how often this could actually happen...it usually helps when the mod posts how they died to keep track throughout the game...I was hoping a doctor would find the sense to protect Yos since we trusted him with out double vote, but either this didn't happen or the mafia/3rd party has some kind of power to go through the protections (is there a antitown role like that?) Interesting that Tate left his vote for me...perhaps because I placed my vote on the double vote on him and he's trying to frame me? Not sure, there is so much WIFOM in the reasoning of the will

ZEEnon is definitely my #1 candidate for a lynch right now...Lets run through his posts, shall we?

Vote: tatetothetot

Explanation:

You, mainly because of this:

tatetothetot wrote:
For starters, I don't like Yos' post. Most of that is fairly standard stuff and doesn't seem necessary to post. I can only assume it was done because he wanted to seem more pro town to gain votes. Not something I can go off of right now, but I will not be voting for Yos to receive the double vote.

Due to the fact that you had the exact same mindset while reading that post of his.

This is a lame reason, and I understand, most of us didn't have great reasons at first...this was page 2 and early...lets move on, shall we?

Less voting Yosarian2 for being smart and more voting tatetothetot for being town please.

This post I absolutely hate, he is clearly buddying with tate and doesn't explain his reason for not like Yos...And especially now that tate flipped scum, this is a HUGE red flag in my mind...though I have misunderstood jokes to be serious in the past, I see no joke in this at all...And the fact that tate doesn't respond to this at all, makes it more scummish IMO...even if it was a joke, you would expect his opinion to change with new info...we'll see...Next post...

Oh hi. No school/work tomorrow due to family day so expect a read/post from me.

This is great...except for the fact that this was his last post...he never provides any "read" for us...and if his vote for tate and push for tate was a joke, he doesn't indicate this by changing his vote...and he never indicates that he voted for tate based on playing with him in a previous game and liking his play...This is before I've read anything since the day started, but till I read that...

Vote: ZEEnon

This is great, e

EBWOP: The last part under my vote was from the "This is great...except..." part...I thought I had already typed that but I guess I lost it...lol

[CryMeARiver]

As I read through...

@Everyone, I would really rather not a bulk of our votes land upon one person can everyone make sure their votes are not set to go to Crymeariver and Netopalis if you happen to die. I would also like to hear other peoples thoughts on this.

I agree with that statement completely, its too dangerous

Incidentally, we should all be aware of the probability of multiple scumgroups. Note that Tate was listed as Egyptian mafia.

I agree...as I said, either 3 scum groups or 2 and a 3rd party...

Interesting Theory defiantly worth talking about. If I was scum I am not sure what I would do. Passing it to a scum buddy this early would be risky as everyone would know who it was passed to and that would draw unwanted attention. Also I am sure scum would love to control as many votes as they can.

Yeah, this is a great point and probably what's going to make this game so much fun...The intense WIFOM in this is almost comical...If you think about the two sides
1) He was leaving it to his scumbuddy, which I'm not...I suppose the discussion would have come up between his scumbuddies whether he should leave it to them or someone else to frame them...this early in the game, risking leaving it to a (hypothetical) scumbuddy would be stupid
2) He would leave it to someone else...I would be the obvious choice because I make an easy frame since I voted him at the end of the double vote session...he would be trying to make it look like I was making a vain attempt to get my scumbuddy to get the double vote (which doesn't make much sense) and that's probably why he chose me for the vote in case he died

Well, the Egyption thing and three NK's kinda sound like two groups.

How do you figure 2 groups? Am I missing something or do you know something town doesn't?

Analyzing who scum gave votes to is a bit too WIFOMy for my tastes....

Like you read my mind

(Another strategy the scum could use, btw, is to give it to someone with bad reads and/or a scummy player in the hopes that the vote will eventually find their way back to them. Looking at Cry's join date, that might be the strategy here. No offense to Cry.)

That's completely possible and makes total sense...they would hope I slip up or something and give them back even more votes...hopefully I don't!

I'm not sure there could be an SK in this game due to the win conditions.

You're right, a one/multi-shot vig or something would make more sense

I feel like this is already a big block of text and almost too much... will finish tomorrow...plus I'm tired

[CryMeARiver]

As I read through...

@Everyone, I would really rather not a bulk of our votes land upon one person can everyone make sure their votes are not set to go to Crymeariver and Netopalis if you happen to die. I would also like to hear other peoples thoughts on this.

I agree with that statement completely, its too dangerous

Incidentally, we should all be aware of the probability of multiple scumgroups. Note that Tate was listed as Egyptian mafia.

I agree...as I said, either 3 scum groups or 2 and a 3rd party...

Interesting Theory defiantly worth talking about. If I was scum I am not sure what I would do. Passing it to a scum buddy this early would be risky as everyone would know who it was passed to and that would draw unwanted attention. Also I am sure scum would love to control as many votes as they can.

Yeah, this is a great point and probably what's going to make this game so much fun...The intense WIFOM in this is almost comical...If you think about the two sides
1) He was leaving it to his scumbuddy, which I'm not...I suppose the discussion would have come up between his scumbuddies whether he should leave it to them or someone else to frame them...this early in the game, risking leaving it to a (hypothetical) scumbuddy would be stupid
2) He would leave it to someone else...I would be the obvious choice because I make an easy frame since I voted him at the end of the double vote session...he would be trying to make it look like I was making a vain attempt to get my scumbuddy to get the double vote (which doesn't make much sense) and that's probably why he chose me for the vote in case he died

Well, the Egyption thing and three NK's kinda sound like two groups.

How do you figure 2 groups? Am I missing something or do you know something town doesn't?

Analyzing who scum gave votes to is a bit too WIFOMy for my tastes....

Like you read my mind

(Another strategy the scum could use, btw, is to give it to someone with bad reads and/or a scummy player in the hopes that the vote will eventually find their way back to them. Looking at Cry's join date, that might be the strategy here. No offense to Cry.)

That's completely possible and makes total sense...they would hope I slip up or something and give them back even more votes...hopefully I don't!

I'm not sure there could be an SK in this game due to the win conditions.

You're right, a one/multi-shot vig or something would make more sense

I feel like this is already a big block of text and almost too much... will finish tomorrow...plus I'm tired

Wow, it looked a lot bigger when I was typing it...lol...maybe I'll finish now after all

[CryMeARiver]

As I read through...

@Everyone, I would really rather not a bulk of our votes land upon one person can everyone make sure their votes are not set to go to Crymeariver and Netopalis if you happen to die. I would also like to hear other peoples thoughts on this.

I agree with that statement completely, its too dangerous

Incidentally, we should all be aware of the probability of multiple scumgroups. Note that Tate was listed as Egyptian mafia.

I agree...as I said, either 3 scum groups or 2 and a 3rd party...

Interesting Theory defiantly worth talking about. If I was scum I am not sure what I would do. Passing it to a scum buddy this early would be risky as everyone would know who it was passed to and that would draw unwanted attention. Also I am sure scum would love to control as many votes as they can.

Yeah, this is a great point and probably what's going to make this game so much fun...The intense WIFOM in this is almost comical...If you think about the two sides
1) He was leaving it to his scumbuddy, which I'm not...I suppose the discussion would have come up between his scumbuddies whether he should leave it to them or someone else to frame them...this early in the game, risking leaving it to a (hypothetical) scumbuddy would be stupid
2) He would leave it to someone else...I would be the obvious choice because I make an easy frame since I voted him at the end of the double vote session...he would be trying to make it look like I was making a vain attempt to get my scumbuddy to get the double vote (which doesn't make much sense) and that's probably why he chose me for the vote in case he died

Well, the Egyption thing and three NK's kinda sound like two groups.

How do you figure 2 groups? Am I missing something or do you know something town doesn't?

Analyzing who scum gave votes to is a bit too WIFOMy for my tastes....

Like you read my mind

(Another strategy the scum could use, btw, is to give it to someone with bad reads and/or a scummy player in the hopes that the vote will eventually find their way back to them. Looking at Cry's join date, that might be the strategy here. No offense to Cry.)

That's completely possible and makes total sense...they would hope I slip up or something and give them back even more votes...hopefully I don't!

I'm not sure there could be an SK in this game due to the win conditions.

You're right, a one/multi-shot vig or something would make more sense

I feel like this is already a big block of text and almost too much... will finish tomorrow...plus I'm tired

Wow, it looked a lot bigger when I was typing it...lol...maybe I'll finish now after all

Nevr mind...just read through it and there isn't much left...all I'm wondering is why Ortolan posted this:

I highly doubt zEEnon is scum with tate

Any particular reason? it seems like buddying to me

[CryMeARiver]

I highly doubt zEEnon is scum with tate

Any particular reason? it seems like buddying to me

Earlier on I had zEEnon down as a suspect and when I looked over his day one interactions with tate e.g. calling him obv-town I highly doubt he would do that if he was tate's scumbuddy. It's still possible he'd do that if he were in an alternative scum faction and expected tate to actually be town though.

He quite possibly might not have thought his partner would be lynched that early and that no one would remember a minimal day 0 vote for his partner...but it seems like blatant buddying and I doubt anyone would be trying to attach themselves to someone they thought was town that early...I think he is also part of the Egyptian Scum Mafia or whatever its called

[CryMeARiver]

@Neto: How come during the entire Day 0, you found Gayle scummy, yet only DocPotter and ZEEnon made your "possible scum" list?

@Everyone: Bogre is being replaced across the board, do you agree we should lynch him or get him replaced?

[CryMeARiver]

I do find Gayle scummy, but he's not the play today. He's been active, and if we need to, we can take care of him later. I also am much more sure that ZEEnon is scum than Gayle is now that I've seen Tate's flip. Doc satisfied my points, and I feel fairly good about putting him in the null-to-town zone. I'd much rather see Bogre replaced; the votes were mainly there to impress upon him the importance of posting when he shows back up.

@Mod: Bogre is being replaced elsewhere, could your replace him here? It's been 6 days since his 1 post in this game and I'd rather not waste a daykill on a possible inactive townie

[CryMeARiver]

I know its still early, but I'd wait to lynch anyone till they speak today IMO

[CryMeARiver]

Things I find Scummy

• Netopalis' comment regarding the night kills
  
• WIFOM argument that scum will pass votes to buddies in wills
  
• Gayle complaining about lack of content when he filled day zero with noise
  
• hp[leaves] jumping on the easiest bandwagon

Things I find Weird

• animorph not reading the thread
  
• Cry's massive posting

Things I find Townie

• Me predicting tate scum
  
• raider warning people to keep their wills spread between players
  
• ortolan reminding people how the town win condition is different from non-town
  • Scum win when they control votes
    
  • Town win when all threats are gone

Conclusions

• No player's will should not be used to determine the alignment of any player
  
• Gayle is paranoid and prob scum

Sorry, just trying to make up for lack of posting on Day0
@Gayle, I agree with Neto...this is nice because it condenses what's been happening and I usually agree with what he has to say
@Elscouta, don't think it goes unnoticed, I just really think ZEEnon is scum with regard to tate flipping while Viking doesn't have anything to back up him being scum

[CryMeARiver]

I agree that I think that Neto's comment:

Drat. That's...that's a really crappy night.

was scummy...we lynched scum and that's good...his comment could be read as "Drat. My scumbuddy got lynched...that's crappy"

Though I don't necessarily find it scummy, I don't like DocPotter voting me just because of the WIFOM behind Tate leaving his vote to me

It's a bit scummy the comment you made about lack of content as he says...

hp jumped on the bandwagon with little to no reasoning, while it could be scummy, it could be just because I pointed out the obvious

I did find it really weird that ani hadn't read any of the thread

It makes sense that he finds it weird that I came with a bunch of text after little text on Day 0

I don't agree that him predicting tate scum is town...especially since a lot of people did that...or that Ortolan stating the game rules is town (kinda obvious: here we go with the Yos argument again:) )

I do agree that it is protown what raider said

I agree with both conclusions:
No player's will should not be used to determine the alignment of any player: Too much WIFOM to use this as the deciding factor for scum
Gayle is paranoid and prob scum: You are very paranoid, though that does not automatically make you scum...

[CryMeARiver]

I agree that I think that Neto's comment:

Drat. That's...that's a really crappy night.

was scummy...we lynched scum and that's good...his comment could be read as "Drat. My scumbuddy got lynched...that's crappy"

I don't see anything scummy about that. Two townies were killed, among them the person Netopalis considers to be the best player. And what do you mean by "we lynched" scum?
Yes, I realize the loss, but the #1 priority of town should be to lynch scum, not stay alive. I'm pretty sure it was obvious that I meant "scum was lynched last night" and that's why you didn't make that big of a deal about it

It's a bit scummy the comment you made about lack of content as he says...

That comment was supposed to be a response to Netopalis. He said something along the lines of we needed certain players to speak up, and I commented that we actually need a lot of players to speak up. Even if you don't believe that, can you tell me why the comment is scummy?
I was comparing it to the chaos and lack of substance you really gave on Day 0 and it was ironic that you were now saying that we needed more content...It's not so much scummy, but its a contradiction nevertheless

that Ortolan stating the game rules is town (kinda obvious: here we go with the Yos argument again:) )

I do agree that it is protown what raider said

What Ortolan said was less obvious than what raider said?
Ortolan pretty much stated the rules...Raider did nothing of the sort, but stated what he should be done:

@ Everyone,
Once we get someone with like 4 or 5 votes I think it might be a good idea for them to announce who they wish to lynch but not vote unless it is the hammer and everyone else had has enough time to chime in and say who they would like to have lynched and whatnot. Thoughts?

That's not as obvious as what Ortolan said at all...do you really think that?

You are very paranoid, though that does not automatically make you scum...

Can you show me what you mean by paranoid? No worries, it will not lead to a 20 page long argument.

It's probably just the avatar lol, but on Day 0 you seemed rather defensive and paranoid which led to a lot of argument and a lot of fingers pointing at you to be scum

The point was that I liked his posts because the condensed everything that's been happening into a list and I think its very useful to town

CMAR. Why do you say that Tate got lynched?
Also CMAR, exactly who predicted Tate as scum? I only remember Dr Pepper and Neto doing it.

It was my understanding that an NK is just someone being lynched at night...I still think it is, but whatever, you knew what I was saying

I thought that my last post on Day 0 had indicated my thoughts, but it turns out that it is small if there at all...
I think this should be truly random...since I have the feeling that

tatetothetot has a good chance of being daylynched day 1 for somethings that have happened, I place my vote on him

Vote: tatetothetot

I thought I had stated more explicitly that I thought he was scum, but apparently I didn't...but in my head I did


Yeah, we def. got to close to a lynch last night and I would've done the same thing neto! 9 votes on him (i think?) before he even got a chance to talk...

CMAR is also scum, trying hard to look townie with his increased activity and bussing his scummate ZEEnon.

I already explained my increased activity...this is the way I usually am on this site with large posts of analysis...And, no, I'm not bussing anyone, but can't really defend that one

don't like the zEEnon wagon, as I said I think his attitude towards tate is more indicative of him not being scum with tate than being scum with him.

Could you explain why it indicates he town? All you are doing is setting yourself up for a "buddying" tag with Zeenon if he does flip scum by saying he's town without reasoning...

[CryMeARiver]

@hp[leaves]: Care to comment on the fact that at least two people (including me) called you scummy for having jumped on the first easy wagon.

If trying to lynch scum makes me scum, then hell yes I'm scum.

Also I don't recall anyone else labeling CMAR as suspicious.

That would be because I was the one to start the bandwagon? I didn't hop on with no reason like you did...

[CryMeARiver]

don't like the zEEnon wagon, as I said I think his attitude towards tate is more indicative of him not being scum with tate than being scum with him. Plus chances are good we have a vig we can leave him to.

Excuse me?

He is not worthy of a lynch, but is worthy of a vig

? And since when telling the vig who to shoot is townish?

@hp[leaves]: Care to comment on the fact that at least two people (including me) called you scummy for having jumped on the first easy wagon.

Lol, that definetely didn't make sense -.- How can someone not be worth of lynch, but wort of killing?

Anti-town people are worth killing as with them being alive they are more of a liability to town. It works best if town vigs taks them out as lynches are best suited for scummy people. Granted that is assuming we have a town vig and that they have the same mindset as me. Rarely is this the case.

Yeah, I agree that this is the case we would kill and not lynch, but this is the opposite of the case we're actually in

ZEEnon is scummy rather than antitown and should therefore be lynched, right? I kinda want to hear what Orto has to say about this

[CryMeARiver]

That's not as obvious as what Ortolan said at all...do you really think that?

I do, as what Raider said has already been mentioned several times.

[*]hp[leaves] accusation of me slipping by

You are. Your posts are a list of 'facts' with no explanation. You don't question anybody, you don't try to bring up new points, you just post a list of things you find scummy or weird and vote. Essentially, you are letting everybody else do the scumhunting, while you pop in to comment and vote.

[*]I find actions scummy
[*]I dont find people scummy until they commit multiple scummy actions
[*]Gayle is paranoid for suspecting Yos when Yos did nothing scummy
[*]Gayle is prob scum for drowning day one in noise

Okay, so show me the actions I did that you find scummy. Why do you say Day 0 was drowned in noise?

Another question, why is my questioning of Netopalis' sig wierd?

Also, I frown upon your shenanigans of explaining bullet points with more bullet points.

I'm not sure if this is possible and don't want to get caught based on role speculation, but any chance this could be his flavor?

[CryMeARiver]

CMAR: You may be right, it may be a post restriction. I just looked up another game that he played, and he didn't post like that.

Now that that's established, lets move on to a sensible topic: lynching scum

ZEEnon buddied with tate, proven scum (saying that "tate is town") and is now lurking...If he doesn't post within the next day or 2, I agree that he should be vigged (if we have one) rather than lynched

[CryMeARiver]

CMAR: Actually, I disagree. I feel fairly strongly that he's the best lynch candidate for the day. We *might* not have a vig, and lynching also generates a lot of responses. I want to see how everybody feels about a ZeeNon lynch before he dies.

I wouldn't necessarily mind lynching him, I just think he's a lurker and lurkers shouldn't be bothered with the lynch...its better if they are vigged (if there is a vig, which is kind of a big risk...)

[CryMeARiver]

Now that that's established, lets move on to a sensible topic: lynching scum

Haha, no. Everything I just said about DrPepper stands. Speculation about his role changes nothing.

@Netopalis:

How does such a posting restriction fit in with this setup?


About Zeenon, lynching him without more posts is ridiculous. He hasn't posted in six days, and what he

has

posted isn't enough to make any sort of conclusion. Lynching him would essentially be a policy lynch.

I know, I was just saying now we don't have to get on his case about the template of his posts since it could possibly be forced upon him...

Yeah, I would prefer not to lynch ZEEnon unless he posts...though if he's replaced, I highly doubt his replacement could come up with a reason...IYO should we lynch him if he's replaced or no Gayle?

[CryMeARiver]

Gayle: What do you mean, how does a posting restriction fit into the setup? I'm not sure exactly what you're asking.

I think he's referring to the fact that posting restrictions usually relate to theme, but I think in this case its a moot point...

[CryMeARiver]

If we're going to lynch him whether he's replaced or not, there's no point in making a replacement slog through the 25 pages of this game...

That's what I was thinking

[CryMeARiver]

Actually, I just remembered. I can tell you what he'd claim if he were here, due to my role. It's a pretty crappy one, so I don't mind telling you folks this. We're neighbors, unconfirmed alignment. I won't reveal who else is in the neighborhood. I also cannot confirm whether any members of the neighborhood have additional roles or not.

What did this have to do with anything? You said you could tell us what he'd claim then randomly posted that he was a neighbor

[CryMeARiver]

That's what I'm saying - he'd claim town neighbor.

So why would he claim that if he we're here right now? But now we know someone's role is town neighbor at least...that narrows the scum hunt by 1

[CryMeARiver]

That's what I'm saying - he'd claim town neighbor.

So why would he claim that if he we're here right now? But now we know someone's role is

town

neighbor at least...that narrows the scum hunt by 1

How are you so sure neto is town?

I was talking about DrPepper...didn't Neto just say he was town neighbor (or would claim it...)?

[CryMeARiver]

@CMAR:

If we don't have enough information to lynch him now, why would we lynch him when he is replaced? If he is replaced, we form an opinion on his replacement and then decide what to do.

What do you mean, how does a posting restriction fit into the setup? I'm not sure exactly what you're asking.

I just found it strange that you would suggest he has a posting restriction that doesn't seem to fit with this setup.

Can you clarify your stance on Zeenon? Are you willing to lynch him or not?

brb, I'm a newbie so i have to go look up the neighbor role. But.. um.. we are talking about Zeenon, right?

No, I think he said DrPepper is a neighbor, didn't he? I'm so confused right now...

[CryMeARiver]

Myself and Zeenon are neighbors. I can't guarantee alignment. There are more in the neighborhood than just the two of us.

Oh, well screw everything I said...I thought you were saying you and DrPepper were neighbors and that DrPepper was a "town neighbor"

[CryMeARiver]

I am perfectly willing to lynch Zeenon.

So his grand total of 4 posts were enough to convince you that he is scum? Scummier than the player you spent all Day 0 arguing with?

Also, I'm still not sure why a posting restriction wouldn't fit with the setup. Exactly how would it not?

I mean his particular posting style as a posting restriction doesn't seem to fit with the "attempt to gain voting power" element of the game. But it would be quicker just to ask him.

@DrPepper:

Do you have a posting restriction?

I've been in games where players can't establish posting restrictions till after the game ends...just sayin'

[CryMeARiver]

@Neto: My vote is on ZEEnon, mine was the first on ZEEnon...
@Gayle: Yes, I would unvote probably at L3, maybe L2...I feel he should be able to weigh in on this, as well as players who haven't posted yet...But, if he's about to be replaced, I think I would want him lynched...I don't see a reason for a replacement as his 4 posts were scummy and he's lurking...
@ani: I really don't like the feeling I've been getting from you either

[CryMeARiver]

Well, I think those first two points are speculation and the last point can be attributed to anything. The remaining point is doesn't make me think "Yep, scum.".

The deadline is March 13th, and there is the possiblity of Zeenon being replaced. Why are you making a vote that "puts him close to lynching" when there are several players we need to hear from, including the replacement of a player with a single post?

Vote: Netopalis

Lynching Netopalis today is BAD. That would mean tomorrow someone would have 4 votes (at least).

Doesn't matter...if someone with multiple votes is scummy, I'd still lynch them...But I agree with you for a different reason, players with multiple votes already have a target on their back (which is why I believe Ray didn't want the double vote, but that backfired...) and are likely to die that night or soon after anyway...

[CryMeARiver]

CMAR: You may be right, it may be a post restriction. I just looked up another game that he played, and he didn't post like that.

Now that that's established, lets move on to a sensible topic: lynching scum

ZEEnon buddied with tate, proven scum (saying that "tate is town") and is now lurking...If he doesn't post within the next day or 2, I agree that he should be vigged (if we have one) rather than lynched

Wait, isn't this exactly the same as my attitude towards zEEnon, which you were questioning moments ago?

I am not advocating Lynch all Lurkers, I am advocating lynch all scummy lurkers.

There's far too many of those I'm afraid. I don't think a zEEnon-wagon will be an information-rich one, I would even prefer TheLonging at present. Don't feel enthused about the Gayle wagon either, I suspect she's town.

Once I understood what you were saying, I agreed...especially when ZEEnon hadn't posted all day

[CryMeARiver]

Did ZEEnon use his neighbor ability last night? If so, was anything important said?

[CryMeARiver]

Pwnman is scum guys. Lynch him.

Pwnman: Please, for the love of all that is good and holy, post something substantial. Your lack of content makes all the little babies in the world cry out. It's like there's a massive black hole where your contribution to this game should be, and it's sucking all the life out of the day. This is only exacerbated by your semi-regular vague attempts at excuses, promising posts at an eternally moving "tomorrow". I guess it's not tomorrow yet, given that, in a fashion not unlike Zeno's Paradox, we're continually moving towards tomorrow but will never reach it. You never look at a day and say, "Wow, it's tomorrow!" So, I suppose that you haven't been wholly inaccurate, but it's still incredibly misleading. But, back on topic, it's hard to veil the absolute rage and disgust that I have for your lack of posting. Every day that you go without posting, it's like you're just tossing more and more kittens into a meat grinder. Post or replace out.

Neto-Pwnman scum buddies? Hmmm...

That's the exact possible coaching feeling I got...Great minds think alike, they always did call me Aristotle...

The crap? How do you get scumbuddies from that? And how are you so sure that he's scum and not just inactive?

Rather paranoid about that suggestion...sir, you need to calm down or I'm gonna have to call security

I dunno what i'm missing but don't scum usually buddy town, not their supposed scum partners?

Only if they're experienced scum and the way you phrased your question makes it seem like you are not...Plus, if you are his scumbuddy, you probably didn't expect tate to die that quickly so you figured no harm no foul in trying to give him the double vote

Vote: hp [leaves]

* Joined an early bandwagon (the fact I didn't like the bandwagon doesn't help)
* Most posts are one, or two-liners. Not many posts. I feel like he is trying to be just active enough to not be a lurker, but don't commit too much either.
* He called ZeeNon "obv-scum" without much reasoning. I can understand how Zeenon could give scum vibes, but obv-scum. Seriously?

Also, I didn't like his answer to my remark :

@hp[leaves]: Care to comment on the fact that at least two people (including me) called you scummy for having jumped on the first easy wagon.

If trying to lynch scum makes me scum, then hell yes I'm scum.

Him and pwnman are definitely next scummiest but ZEEnon's post didn't seem to cut it for me...I keep my vote on ZEEnon...would like to hear from Gayle and Ortolan though now that ZEEnon posted...

[CryMeARiver]

Alright....

Hi stop calling me a lurker thanks, my computer has not been co-operating.

That's too bad. I hope that you're able to post more in the future. We'll still call you a lurker.

I did not immediately trust Yosarian because I have made an initial post in a game as a Serial Killer that seemed pro-town and instantly made everyone view me as town for the majority of the game...

Oh, yeah, I was scum and I did this once, so that means that everybody who's scum does that. But, wait! Just a few paragraphs earlier, you said:

Post 20 written by Yosarian2 seemed like an attempt to appear more pro-town to me.
Didn't mean he was scum because town want to seem pro-town as well.

How do these two mesh up? It seems as if your second part indicates a null read, while your first part indicates a scum read, both coming from the same post.

Post 23 written by tatetothetot seemed like it came from a pro-town player due to the fact that I am one to believe that those that provide dissent early on are more likely to be town as mafia would not want to go against people early on. Guess I was wrong, big deal. No reason for you guys to hop all over me because of an incorrect read.

So, this vague dissent post means that you need to call him explicitly pro-town without reasoning twice? It seems like your supposed evidence doesn't mesh with your statements.



CMAR: You need to hear from Gayle and Ortolan? Exactly why and about what? I would think that you would be waiting more to hear from the inactives...

I meant referring to the ZEEnon case...I believe they were the ones saying that they didn't support his lynch especially since he hasn't posted yet...

[CryMeARiver]

Hi CryMeARiver i'm ZEEnon nice to meet you. How about you answer my question?

Him and pwnman are definitely next scummiest but ZEEnon's post didn't seem to cut it for me...I keep my vote on ZEEnon...would like to hear from Gayle and Ortolan though now that ZEEnon posted...

Could you explain what in particular you find displeasing about my post rather than just stating that it "didn't cut it" for you? It makes it difficult to counter-argue that point if there is no point.

It's not "displeasing", I just don't feel that it provides a viable reason for you buddying with said scum tate and therefore my vote stays on you

[CryMeARiver]

Ok reading through and... I also did not like DRK's randomness in his scum list and am surprised at the beef ZEEnon picked with him about...this seems very protown to me and active scumtellhunting by him so,

Unvote

[CryMeARiver]

@CMAR: And?

Seen in preview: more coming...

[CryMeARiver]

Only have time for a quick one:

Not much to catch up on, but I really don't like hp[leaves]'s vote on me, not for OMGUS, but mostly for the fact that he provides very little information for his vote on me, just like he did with ZEEnon...not going to put my vote on him right now because I'm not sure how many votes are already there...

@MOD: Vote count please?

Good to be in a game with you again Amished, hopefully on the same side this time (and hopefully you won't NK me again )
I agree with your points on hpleaves, haven't looked much into the Gayle case (lack of time right now), don't support DrPepper case as of now (again, haven't looked much into it), like the point you made on DocPotter

Not really sure how to defend my vote for tate for the double vote except that what I said was truly what I meant...I knew he would be day lynched (had no idea he would be NKed though...) and I thought that if we gave him the vote, he would be killed for scummy actions anyway...that way the vote would be truly random and we wouldn't paint a target on anyone's back (like we did to Yos) because the vote would go to whoever was on Tate's will...but obviously he tried to make the post look like a buddying attempt by putting me on his will

[CryMeARiver]

Oh, and Gayle, what's up with having the same avatar as DRK and being called KRD by him?

[CryMeARiver]

hp is a good choice for another scumbaggo (partially due to the wagoning of ZEE, partially to looking like he has inside information)

What makes you think I have inside information?

Also CMAR, if you don't like my vote on you; you'll hate The1fifi's vote on me. Just sayin'. Also, why is electing someone who's going to be lynched pro-town? It looks like a cover for electing your scumbuddy.

Don't recall fifi's vote on you...will look it up...

But, in reference to the last part, YOS WAS AT L1 FOR THE DOUBLE VOTE...I had no hopes in actually getting him elected (and the deadline was in 2 hours), I just wanted my opinion to be known...if I was his scumbuddy, I'm extremely stupid scum

[CryMeARiver]

Vote: hp[leaves]

just got back on the site and hp only has 2 votes...and he is scummy as heck

[CryMeARiver]

And why do you think he's scummy as heck? What do you think of Fishy's thought that the large vote getters will be a prime target for night actions?

I absolutely agree which is part of teh reason I didn't want double vote...I'm probably dead tonight

[CryMeARiver]

*sigh*

I wanted an answer to the:

"Why do you think he (hp [leaves]) is scummy as heck?"

part.

I thought that was obvious...1 bandwagon vote, one vote that I don't remember where it was both with little to no reason

[CryMeARiver]

Thank god we can vote to lynch now.

So, as we all hate lurkers and the guys buddying scum; here's a lynch candidate that you'll all agree on!

Vote ZEEnon(aka obvscum)

Also CryMeARiver is his scummate and is bussing him.

Here he wagons Zee (7 or 8 votes on him already?) with very little reason and states I am his scummate with very little reason...He keeps saying I am bussing my teammate which (as someone else pointed out I believe) could sound like he had inside info (but his info is wrong because I'm not partners with Zee)...Also, I believe bussing is a moot point in this game for scum...With this setup, bussing is dumb

[CryMeARiver]

Ahh, so basically everything that I said was scummy about hp. K, good to know.

(Are we sure we can't lynch CMAR now?)

pretty sure I stated I suspected him before you got here or no?

[CryMeARiver]

Funny, the only thing you've said about hp all game is:

hp jumped on the bandwagon with little to no reasoning,

while it could be scummy, it could be just because I pointed out the obvious

(bolding mine)

Are you sure you don't wanna lynch him now, Fishy? Pretty pretty please? (I'll throw in 500 e-bucks to sweeten the deal)

Disclaimer: e-bucks are not a valid currency in any way, shape, or form. If you find a sucker, you may be able to trade them for something of value, but they'd have to be pretty stupid /disclaimer

I have mentioned hp a few times since then and the fact that he hasn't defended his seemingly random wagoning makes it all the more plausible...Still don't understand how this makes me scummy...I'd love to hear a case

[CryMeARiver]

What's with the copying of avatars?

[CryMeARiver]

I have no idea what you're talking about

What's DR Pepper's avatar on your screen?

[CryMeARiver]

I don't know what you're looking at, but his avatar is NOT the same as anyone else's. To accuse him of copying someone else's avatar is a huge misrep.

FoS CMAR

ON my computer his avatar is the same as Gayle's almost...except there is a little square on it

[CryMeARiver]

I don't know why you insist on trying to make DP look bad. Don't make me upgrade that FoS to a vote.

I don't

insist

on crap, I'm one of the few, if not the only, one that said that I liked his style of posting

Anyway, why would I make something like this up? It happened to Gayle earlier in the game (his avatar switched to yours) and now it is happening to DP, with his switching to Gayle's, except with a square over the face

images/avatars/10699.png

[CryMeARiver]

Friday is my mafiascum day this week, expect much then

[CryMeARiver]

Gayle is posting on other games with me and ignoring this...

I haven't read through the past like 5 or 6 pages, but that really makes me want to hammer...but I am very interested in his (fake)claim

[CryMeARiver]

Unfortunately, I can only post in one game at a time.

I'm the stubborn type, so I am not going to claim. I standby everything I said.

Remember the smugface.png. That is all.

wow...Once I finish reading, your lack of claim on top of what made 9 people vote for you will probably make me hammer

[CryMeARiver]

1) You were willing to do practically anything to prevent Yos' election, because you felt he was "creepy" and you "didn't trust" me, although you contended that he wasn't scummy and that you really did have good reasons, which made sense to nobody but yourself and which required more than 10 pages of back-and-forth to establish.

2) You denied attacking Yos, despite the fact that it was mathematically proven that almost 2/3rds of your posts mentioned him in a disparaging fashion.

3) You immediately backed off on this when Yos flipped town because you wanted to look more town and you failed to own up to your D1 statements.

4) You call for more votes on Dr. Pepper without stating a reason other than you don't like his outlined post format. It is later explained why this is found to be scummy, but it seems that you follow the format of "Accuse first! Then, if you can find a reason, try to justify it, but only when forced to."

5) You tunnel against Dr. Pepper for most of D1, failing to produce substantial content against or in support of any other player.

6) You practically avoid saying anything about the popular ZeeNON wagon, aside from a few oblique comments against it.

7) You drop off the face of the earth when attacked, then are shocked when people don't lessen their suspicion against you.

8) You buddied up to a confirmed scum.

9) You support odd people in the game but don't seem to like anybody who is really advancing the game.

10) I wanted to make this list end at an even 10 bullet points.

I agree with most of your points, but I haven't finished reading (some exams tomorrow)...If I just bandwagon, I'll be considered scummy, even though I highly doubt there is any chance of this wagon turning around without a claim from Gayle

[CryMeARiver]

And, CMAR comes in with yet another reason to bandwagon him instead.

"Hey, guys, hold the press! I still need to look like I'm town today!"

Unvote, vote: CMAR

Not at all...I'm still on page 34 and haven't read most of the cases on Gayle yet...I will hammer him once I have reason too...I don't find the DrPepper points on your list that scummy purely because they are his opinion and he provided reasons for why he finds him scummy

[CryMeARiver]

1045 is scummy cause you admitted to wanting her dead for information.

You can be pragmatic about things and still be voting for the person you find scummiest. I don't see how you got that out of 1045.

And what exactly is wrong about wanting someone dead for information if the information is sufficiently valuable? Just because we're supposed to lynch scumbags, doesn't mean we have to. There's more than one way to skin the scumbags.

Hey, CMAR, could you do this town a favour and hammer? I guarantee you that there's a decent chance Gayle is scum.

Yeah, let me finish readthrough first...This is my free day finally!

[CryMeARiver]

I did a half-assed ISO read of Gayle and found that whoever wrote the statistic that he talked about Yos and argued with Neto for 2/3 of the day is stupid...That's pretty much all he did that day, and I still don't understand why...he tries to explain why in ISO 13 I think it was, but that still doesn't make sense of why he'd find him scummy...yeah, he said he "didn't necessarily find Yos scummy" but he also FoS'ed him and said a few times that he would vote him if they weren't on Day 0...Couple this all together with the fact that he largely ignored the ZEEnon wagon and took a long time to claim (and that if he's not scum, at most we lose a VT):

Vote: Gayle

@Mod: Do we find out who gets his vote today or tomorrow? I'd prefer tomorrow for obvious reasons please!

[CryMeARiver]

Balanced? Not anymore, if the Egyptians are all dead (and I NOT saying they definitely are). At the start of the game, I'm not sure. But if there are 4 scum out there, the Egyptians are dead. If there are 5 scum out there, there's a 50% chance the Egyptians are dead. If 6 scum, STS is right, 75% of the mafia are not Egyptian.

Any way you slice it, looking for another Egyptian doesn't have a great chance of hitting scum.

I don't have a problem with going for an Egyptian, I'm just saying there very well might not be one.

Reading through and

THIS

makes more sense than what you earlier stated about there being 2 Egyptian scum...A good rule of thumb is 25-33% mafia in a game...we've decided on 2 scum teams and a vig/sk...this makes it likely that the scum teams have 3 players each...But saying this:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it unlikely that anyone from his scumgroup is still alive?

makes it sound like you have inside info...I actually think it's very likely to have anyone in the Egyptian scumgroup alive...But I do like your point that scumhunting for

just

Egyptian with connections to fifi is just as important scumhunting in general...while connections are important, individual scumminess is just as important at this point (with 2 scum teams)

As I see, Amished covers the average-scum math pretty perfectly later...
Don't like CSL's vote with no reasoning...hoping for that to come
I do agree that Neto defied his argument by voting for DKU
Kind of an OMGUS vote from DKU
Still confused on what Neto was "sarcastic" about...his explanation of HpLeaves being connected to fifi?
Parama's thoughts of fifi leaving his vote to scumbuddy cuz he was caught off guard are interesting and I shall be doing an ISO read of steam/pwnman...though I do seem to recall people finding pwnman scummy...or was that just cuz of his lurkingness?
DRK's avatar is still sweet...sorry to see it go
DocPotter...what makes you think that TTTT "didn't get around" to changing his will...mod made it pretty obvious that we could change our wills at night and he must have suspected to die sooner or later...Though the fact about fifi making his will safe is an interesting one as well that completely makes sense...

More to come

[CryMeARiver]

Vote CMAR

Can we lynch him now, please?

WHY DO YOU ALWAYS DO THIS?! This is like the 3rd or 4th time you have voted without any reasoning and its really starting to piss me off...you were high on my suspect list on Day 1 and have just made it to the top...If you would like to see my previous statements about him, look from my ISO 43 on and it should be throughout there...

Vote: hp[leaves]

[CryMeARiver]

@Netlava: Legit Power roles have a reason to claim. If you don't claim you're either scum, or are going to claim vanilla. As vanilla is the easiest to fake claim and there's really no point in keeping a vanilla around you lynch them for the odd time that scum does claim vanilla.

Regarding ZEEnon: O RLY?

Vote: zEEnon

His stance on tatethetot deserves scrutiny.

Unvote, vote: Gayle

Ok, ZEEnon's posting now, so I suppose I can move my pressure vote. The quote I have a problem with is this:

Outright lie. Either you are bad at math or you just wanted to make a sensational statement.

I feel like the statement is a bit overly sensational itself. In context, Gayle's post was in response to the following quote by yos:

Gayle, something about 2/3rds of your posts have been attacks on me

Yep, definitely started as a pressure vote....

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm in your voice?
I'm gonna have to ISO DKU now that all this has begun and votes are piling up...if I remember correctly, yesterday I mostly got a noob reading from him, but today he seems to be turning a new card

[CryMeARiver]

@ CMAR:

I love how Dr Pepper tries to avoid slipping stuff by reasoning nothing and concludes Gayle is paranoid and probably scum while not voting for him.

Conclusion: He is scum.

CMAR is also scum, trying hard to look townie with his increased activity and bussing his scummate ZEEnon.

I also bet at least one of the lurkers is scum.

Currently I'm liking ZEEnon's post; but I want to see more from him.

Also, CMAR's vote on ZEEnon made me suspicious of both: tttt(confirmed scum) passed his vote to CMAR who also had voted for him for the election (because he would be lynched day 1? wtf?). CMAR had mentioned nothing on ZEEnon during day 0; but attacked him directly at the start of day 1.

The tttt-CMAR-ZEEnon interaction makes me think all are scum.

Also a big post =/= a good post.

I don't think anymore that ZEEnon is scum, so I'll move my vote to CMAR for voting for tttt, thinking he would be lynched day 1.

Unvote, Vote CMAR

Also I'd like if The1fifi gave an explanation for voting me, other than me giving him scum vibes.

I also can give you other reasons if you want more.

I unfortunely don't have time to do a full reread to find the relations of each of these fours with the dead scum (maybe this week-end), so in the meanwhile, i'll just follow Parama and

Unvote, Vote: Steam Powered Shovel

Looks like a bandwagon vote to me.

Hmm...Looks like people were right about fifi. No surprise. This does give more weight to the HP Leaves theory. If you read Fifi in isolation, you realize that he makes several attacks against HP, but never develops them into arguments fuller than "HP is scummy".

Vote: HP Leaves

What is the hp [leaves] theory? Do you agree with Amished's "scum won't bus in this game" theory? Also why are you labeling me a great play for this day without any reasoning? In addition, you had not said anything about me for that whole day.


Will be reading SPS later.

Increased activity, "bussing" someone who I think is scum, and stating I thought we would lynch the scummiest person on D1...now that's an astounding case

[CryMeARiver]

I apologize LlamaFluff, I forgot about Mafiascum during the night phase since this is the only game i'm enrolled.
I'll catch up tomorrow as i'm not at home right now.

What does this post even mean?

[CryMeARiver]

I apologize LlamaFluff, I forgot about Mafiascum during the night phase since this is the only game i'm enrolled.
I'll catch up tomorrow as i'm not at home right now.

What does this post even mean?

I assume he means that while the game was in night he was not checking the site expecting a welcome to day PM or something. Or it could be him lurking in plain site.

I never got a welcome to day pm in any game I've been in...
I didn't want to seem like I was role fishing, but it seemed to me like he had a role that was required to night action and he missed it...

[CryMeARiver]

Wow...I get back and I'm about to be lynched? this is super gay...have yet to see a case besides hp and will respond to that momentarily...

[CryMeARiver]

HP, if ZEE and CMAR are scum with TTTT, that would make a four person scumgrouping, because of The1fifi. Do you think you could be wrong on one of them or do you think there's a four or five person scum team?

If ZEE is scum, then I'd bet he's on the other scum team.

Also I love CMAR-fifi interactions:

• CMAR votes ZEE, then fifi does the same thing the next day without any reasoning.

• fifi comments on my response to elscouta, then CMAR does the same thing along with misunderstanding something. (proof that he didn't read carefully)

• I'd call this a null tell. Scum could've just as easily given thir votes to town to make it look like scum are giving their votes to scum. Good overall analysis, though.

  I have to agree with this.
  it would be to obvious if the player who receives your vote in case your scum is your scum partner. BUT, could be very obvious that town would think it would be obvious, and therefore gambiting and passing the vote to your partner, right in top of the list.

Protecting CMAR without mentioning his name. Also passes away an opportunity to cause a mislynch (assuming CMAR is town, oh wait, he isn't)[/list]

• After fifi votes for me, CMAR expresses his suspicion on me. This would be normal. But his only post about me was suggesting I was next scummiest to ZEE, providing no reasons.

• CMAR says I'm scummy for voting him with "little" reason. I tell him that he'd find fifi's vote on me much more suspicious. CMAR doesn't recall that vote. He says he will look it up. He doesn't.

• CMAR hops on my wagon after fifi saying that I'm scummy as heck.

• fifi says gayle is scummy. CMAR says gayle is scummy and votes him.

Following amished's logic, they are both scum on the same side. Even if we don't, they've done a good work about protecting each other. So they're both scum. We lynch CryMeARiver.[/quote]
Wow
This is a lot of connections that I did not intend nor realize and I guess the only thing I can say is that I am not his scumbuddy. I cannot really respond to this since all of it is true (except the part that I never looked up his vote on you). I would still like to see more evidence on me from others, but this does look like enough for my lynch. Bravo for providing this case hp[leaves] as if I was not the one it was against, I would hammer right away, but I am not Egyptian Scum.
Fishy, why do you repeatedly say I am scum for sure?

I do believe a claim is in order from me:

I am Tracker. I can target a player at night and learn who the player targeted the same night, but not the action that the player performed (I hope this is not modkillable because I did not quote my entire role PM and I paraphrased)
Night 1 I targeted TTTT and he did indeed kill Yosarian that night.
I will not out my Night 2 target as I believe it is a town PR

[CryMeARiver]

HP, if ZEE and CMAR are scum with TTTT, that would make a four person scumgrouping, because of The1fifi. Do you think you could be wrong on one of them or do you think there's a four or five person scum team?

If ZEE is scum, then I'd bet he's on the other scum team.

Also I love CMAR-fifi interactions:

• CMAR votes ZEE, then fifi does the same thing the next day without any reasoning.

• fifi comments on my response to elscouta, then CMAR does the same thing along with misunderstanding something. (proof that he didn't read carefully)

• I'd call this a null tell. Scum could've just as easily given thir votes to town to make it look like scum are giving their votes to scum. Good overall analysis, though.

  I have to agree with this.
  it would be to obvious if the player who receives your vote in case your scum is your scum partner. BUT, could be very obvious that town would think it would be obvious, and therefore gambiting and passing the vote to your partner, right in top of the list.

Protecting CMAR without mentioning his name. Also passes away an opportunity to cause a mislynch (assuming CMAR is town, oh wait, he isn't)[/list]

• After fifi votes for me, CMAR expresses his suspicion on me. This would be normal. But his only post about me was suggesting I was next scummiest to ZEE, providing no reasons.

• CMAR says I'm scummy for voting him with "little" reason. I tell him that he'd find fifi's vote on me much more suspicious. CMAR doesn't recall that vote. He says he will look it up. He doesn't.

• CMAR hops on my wagon after fifi saying that I'm scummy as heck.

• fifi says gayle is scummy. CMAR says gayle is scummy and votes him.

Following amished's logic, they are both scum on the same side. Even if we don't, they've done a good work about protecting each other. So they're both scum. We lynch CryMeARiver.

Wow
This is a lot of connections that I did not intend nor realize and I guess the only thing I can say is that I am not his scumbuddy. I cannot really respond to this since all of it is true (except the part that I never looked up his vote on you). I would still like to see more evidence on me from others, but this does look like enough for my lynch. Bravo for providing this case hp[leaves] as if I was not the one it was against, I would hammer right away, but I am not Egyptian Scum.
Fishy, why do you repeatedly say I am scum for sure?

I do believe a claim is in order from me:

I am Tracker. I can target a player at night and learn who the player targeted the same night, but not the action that the player performed (I hope this is not modkillable because I did not quote my entire role PM and I paraphrased)
Night 1 I targeted TTTT and he did indeed kill Yosarian that night.
I will not out my Night 2 target as I believe it is a town PR[/quote]

Oh, and

Unvote

since it now seems that hp is genuinely scumhunting with reasoning

[CryMeARiver]

CMAR: Did your N2 target target someone who died that night?

No, if it had i would have outted it at the risk of it being a town vig...

[CryMeARiver]

Actually....

Why did you choose to track TatetotheTot?

Cuz he was the scummiest one on D0 as I have posted many times

Just to confirm you targeted someone on N2 who visited another person correct? Can you say who was targeted?

Yes I did; No a) it tells us nothing really b) it gives maf. a kill tonight

[CryMeARiver]

I hope I get a doc on me tonight (HINT HINT, please be an active player doc). Though I've been thinking that a doc obviously should have been on Yos N1, so maybe there is a scum role that can break through doc's protect???

Don't like how CSL BW'ed and hasn't posted why (that reminds me of someone *Cough hp *Cough) and hasn't said much of anything yet, especially since he entered into a scummy position in the first place

Vote: CSL

[CryMeARiver]

I did indeed forget about the docs dying, meaning I am probably dead tonight...if I was scum, I think I would remember that both docs are most likely dead...but WIFOM argument...

I would rather not out the power role seeing as I am most likely dead tonight now...if I do indeed survive the night, I will post an innocent/guilty report tomorrow, barring I don't get another town PR

I did not take an entire day to "fake a report"...I posted my role minutes after I realized I was in danger of dying and I had no reason to post my role prior to that

Can other people please check out that CSL slot, or at least start to scumhunt again? It is ironic that all 3 people in that slot have followed the same pattern...

[CryMeARiver]

Thinking about it a little more, leaving him alive today but not having him reveal his suspects is a good idea; it'll force the scum to think a little bit more. Scum NKing him tonight would take his possibility of a mislynch away, but save his two investigations from being revealed. If scum RBs him, mislynch might not be possible (because they're not sure who the mystery suspect is, and the suspect will be able to confirm they've targeted someone if they did) and they only save 1/2 of his investigations being revealed. If they leave him alive, he'll probably be mislynched, but we'll have two investigations to work with. No matter what happens, we'll still get something out of it.

Unvote

Now time to look at Neto and SPS...

1. That's all fine and dandy except the extremely off chance (sarcasm ) that they kill me tonight...lol
2. Check out CSL too please

[CryMeARiver]

Thinking about it a little more, leaving him alive today but not having him reveal his suspects is a good idea; it'll force the scum to think a little bit more. Scum NKing him tonight would take his possibility of a mislynch away, but save his two investigations from being revealed. If scum RBs him, mislynch might not be possible (because they're not sure who the mystery suspect is, and the suspect will be able to confirm they've targeted someone if they did) and they only save 1/2 of his investigations being revealed. If they leave him alive, he'll probably be mislynched, but we'll have two investigations to work with. No matter what happens, we'll still get something out of it.

Unvote

Now time to look at Neto and SPS...

But that is a good point, smart maf. wouldn't kill me tonight...a mislynch during the day would be preferable to them...

[CryMeARiver]

I believe the claim.

Gonna do a re-read.

Interesting how this did not come with an unvote...probably just forgetfulness, but all the same, thought I should bring it up

[CryMeARiver]

2. Check out CSL too please

CSL is CSL. I literally don't understand how to read that guy... The only way that I can figure him out as scum is his relations to dead scum, and he doesn't seem to have too many...

Yes, but that slot in general...it's really funky that all 3 players in that slot have acted rather similarly...I believe that none of them have provided ANY useful info...2 votes with no reasoning and 3 unfulfilled promises to read through

[CryMeARiver]

Lynching CSL is a waste when we have a vig, just shoot him tonight so we can scum-hunt now.

No.
Vig obviously knows what they're doing. If they have found scum they should shoot scum. Anti-town town deaths aren't a bad thing, but scum deaths are a GREAT thing.
Also, this CSL wagon is the DKU wagon all over again. I can't believe we're policy lynching on Day 2.

My vote was only really meant for pressure...not 5 consecutive votes after it

Unvote

[CryMeARiver]

My vote was only really meant for pressure...not 5 consecutive votes after it

Unvote

3 votes for pressure? Its gets the point across but the problem with pressure votes is that they only work if the person is active. Otherwise it will only lead to a drawn out lynch.

Yes, but it's an antitown lynch, not a scum lynch. This can be better carried out by the vig, though the vig has seem to be doing well with scum.
I really think we should focus on other connections with Fifi and Tate. One aspect that was not touched on during the entire DKU and Neto argument was that, while focusing on looking for the last Egyptian Mafia limits our scope, if we are successful, we quite possibly eliminate a death that occurs at night. Therefore, I think we should go back to focusing on connections

[CryMeARiver]

By the way, Fishy is scum.

That's exactly what I just started to feel. I need to ISO him...
But I'm pretty sure I remember him saying multiple times that I was scum, and all of a sudden he backs out rather quickly. And joins a bandwagon...

[CryMeARiver]

EBWOP: I'm replacing ZEEnon, by the way.

wow

[CryMeARiver]

EBWOP: I'm replacing ZEEnon, by the way.

wow

What?

Your avatar is AMAZING lol

[CryMeARiver]

EBWOP: I'm replacing ZEEnon, by the way.

wow

What?

Both of you please stop spamming.

I'm not, I was just stunned by his avatar

[CryMeARiver]

BTW, Neto earlier said ZEE was neighbor, would you like to confirm that Sora?

[CryMeARiver]

@Cry, yes, I am indeed a Neighbor. I guess I can also vouch for Neto. >_>

Can you confirm him being town?

Normally when I am a neighbor it doesnt confirm myself or my neighbor as town. TBH I would assume one of them is scum but wouldnt lynch based off that unless one was dead and confirmed.

There is probably more than 1 of them (don't out the others).
And no, not always. I was in a game with 4 neighbors and 1 was SK while others were town.

BTW, is the bolded a serious question? lol

[CryMeARiver]

Honestly, Raider and Elscouta, what was the purpose of this? ZEEnon confirmed this already, it shows nothing about alignment and even if we were somehow scum together, wouldn't Sora give the same answer that ZEEnon did?

To see if his answers differ from ZEE's in the off chance he did not iso first. What does it hurt to ask the replacement again? Paranoid much?

TBH, I think it was my mistake: I think we should have posted right when he came in that if he did not claim right away, he would be swiftly lynched
@Neto: the point was to make sure he did not claim something else: The point of it was to ask the question before he ever read ZEEnon's post

[CryMeARiver]

- I don't like CMAR's premature claim

Seriously? You have been gone for like a week, don't judge what is premature. This is ridiculous. So if you were a tracker at L2, you would not claim?

This kind of seems like a genuine claim from the wording, but it is notable that he tracked a dead player (the scum who happened to die on n0 and his scumdar was apparently so good that he decided to track him) and a "probable town PR", who he also can't name apparently.

Yes, I tracked someone I felt was for sure scum. That makes perfect sense
Of course I would refrain from naming a town PR.

Just to confirm you targeted someone on N2 who visited another person correct? Can you say who was targeted?

Yes I did; No a) it tells us nothing really b) it gives maf. a kill tonight

I do not understand this, can you please explain?

Which part?
It tells us nothing as it gives us no helpful information
It gives mafia a kill tonight because mafia always tries to out clears (or someone who could be clear) and mafia would look for connections between that player and another to try and find the PR.

I do kind of agree with the obvious in that there's no harm letting CMAR live considering he makes such a juicy target for scum with his claimed role and votes anyhow.

You say above that my claim seems genuine, yet there is "no harm in letting [me] live"? Umm

- Netlava is still scummy.

Because he suspects you? OMGUS-much?

FoS: Ortolan

Vote: Fishy

According to Parama, this is not his "policy". Case to come later.

[CryMeARiver]

The above post is a perfect example of the scum tactic

FoS Scumbuddy
Vote Random Townie

.

I am going to vote Orto if my ISO of fishy does not turn up scum. I just wanted to get that off my chest.

[CryMeARiver]

Wait, did someone claim Vig? Did I miss something?

No, but it is safe to assume that there would not be 3 scum teams. Possible SK, but doubtful in this setup.

[CryMeARiver]

Unvote

I feel like crap right now. Will post tomorrow.

Oh really? You need a little

pressure

?

Vote: CSL

(P.S. Pressure means don't anyone hammer)
(P.P.S. Fishy ISO still in the making)

[CryMeARiver]

Fishy ISO

:arrow: Fishy replaces Bogre

ISO 1

:
Makes scum connection between me and TTTT, but can't get read on me as an individiual
Boldly states "Gayle is scum" for the following reasons:
"I don’t believe Gayle’s read here, he gives no reasons for it and then denies it."
She does not agree with Gayle, accuses Gayle of lack of reasoning (which Gayle did provide), and states that he denies it (which could very well be true, but could you point it out?)
Suspects ZEEnon, skyedoc (CSL), Eslcouta

ISO 3

States that a CMAR wagon would not be good because we should only lynch players with 1 vote (Oh really?) and I will likely die that night

ISO 4

Calls me the "biggest scum in the game", yet resists a lynch on me. He again mentions that I will be lynched that night.
Promises more attention to the game, specifically the cases on DrPepper (Nachomama) and hp[leaves]
Vouches for Gayle wagon again

ISO 5 and 6

Makes zero sense to me. Says that scum would not propose antitown strategies, therefore Netopolis is more town for doing so.

ISO 7

Confirms that he does indeed suspect me as the scummiest player and reiterates that I will die that night.
Doesn't find Shotty to be scummy, but something about raider bugs him

ISO 8

Reiterates that Gayle is the scummiest player, no new reasoning

ISO 9

States that he will be more active soon. Then does not post for 5 days.

ISO 10

He does not find dana scummy, just wrong (Wait, didn't he vote Gayle because he didn't agree with him?)
Boldly states: "I'm wondering whether this is an appropriate time to kill CMAR. You know, because he's scum."
Still does not understand the case on hp[leaves]

ISO 11, 12, 13, 14, 15

Vote with lack of reasoing
Goes V/LA for 4 days
Is "too tired to think"
Votes CMAR for the following reason: "I like the target of this wagon, and I like the company on it." (Wait, I thought a CMAR lynch was a bad idea even though he is scum for sure? What does the second part of that quote even mean?)
Says CMAR is a poor lynch (really? I thought I was scum? Why did you bandwagon me then?)
Votes CSL again

Analysis

Flip Flops and Bandwagons CSL and I
Uses confusing strategies to state that players that have been found scummy are actual town (hp[leaves], Netopolis)
Goes inactive for days at a time, but always promises much activity
Mentions other players to make it look like he is not tunneling CSL and I (raider, hp[leaves], Shotty...)

Unvote

Vote: Fishy

[CryMeARiver]

V/LA till Sunday Night

[CryMeARiver]

This from my droid so ill respond to the above stuff tonight, but imcurious on wat fishys suspicions are on and who he thinks are town

[CryMeARiver]

I'm going to review the people who seem to be drawing the most attention today. Namely: CSL, CMAR, ortolan, and SPS.

- CSL
A nice easy one. In my catch up, I pointed out a post of CSL's predecessor, AK, which I find scummy (and also a link to hp). CSL has done basically nothing, and so based off this post, I find him slightly scummy.

- CMAR
A tracker claim is almost always a bad lynch early in the game, barring truly exceptional scumminess. CMAR is not a good lynch - even if he is scum, he can find other scum for us.

- ortolan
Haven't really seen a case on ortolan. A few things about him:
He's published a lot of townreads. I think in this game, that's unnatural and possibly scummy - I really don't want to publish my major townreads for fear of being NK'd if I'm wrong.
Very little scumhunting. Votes TheLonging, but never really explains why. Also fails to explain vote on pwnman. These are both very easy and rather useless lurker votes, as far as I can tell. Joins hp's wagon saying that he dislikes hp's votes. I disagree with this, and with that wagon in general, and I think a hop like this on a wagon like this fits well with opportunistic scum. The ensuing discussion with hp is interesting:

I don't think voting a lurker to increase his activity is a bad choice.

Again, this was not the sole reason you gave for voting him.

I don't think voting people doing things that don't have pro-town motives is a bad choice.

Well, in theory, this is true. But in this game how do you know for sure he doesn't have "pro-town motives"? The only scenarios where someone might definitely lack "pro-town motives" are either when they're scum or when they're deliberately being destructive to the other players. To establish this you actually need to show what the "lack of pro-town motives" is based on, and provide a good argument for it, which you have not done.

I don't think voting someone to force to explain his vote is a bad choice.

Not necessarily, but when the vote in question is one on you, then one might say you have at least equal motivation for the "OMGUS" move as scum than as town.

The first is fair. hp said that zee was buddying tttt. This still doesn't make his vote bad - I'd say it looks like a lurker pressure vote plus a little scumhunting.
The second is just weird. The thing they are talking about here (CMAR's strategy of giving a player likely to get lynched soon 2 votes) is, for me at least, fairly obviously antitown. Whether it is scummy is questionable, but I think seeing hp's vote based on this as scummy is very strange.
The third is saying that hp shouldn't do something reasonable just because the person involved is voting him. This is bad.
From this post, I really don't get the feeling that ortolan actually thought hp's votes were bad. This all feels very artificial.

I think that the vote on dana, accusing him of being Egyptian scum trying to convince us that there was only one left, is odd and scummy (note: Neto at least was guilty of the same thing). I don't think that's a credible thing to think scum would do.

After CMAR claimed tracker, ortolan case doubt on him him, saying he tracked "a "probable town PR", who he also can't name apparently". This looks a bit like pressuring CMAR to give up the PR - it's obvious why he didn't name the PR, and it was the right decision. I can't see why you would say this.
Overall, I like the ortolan wagon.

- SPS
Going through Parama's case -
ISO 4 from dramonic I find a bit odd. Not sure if it's scummy.
I also found Gayle's side of the day 0 argument scummy, and I sympathise with it being difficult to explain (at least, without basically quoting everything ever and rehashing the whole of day 0 again). I agree that SPS should have done more to explain himself, but its understandable. His fleshing out in iso 5 gives me the feeling this isn't just a random wagon hop, but something he has thought out.

I don't think that passed votes are a bad reason to suspect people - being passed votes by scum is a weak scumtell. If they want to pass votes to their buddies, they should have to put up with increased suspicion. I don't think that having votes passed to you makes it worse to suspect people in the same position. An analogy - I think that people who make crap cases are slightly more likely to be scum. I occasionally make crap cases myself as town, but this doesn't weaken this conviction.

I agree with your dislike for SPS's pushing of Gayle's wagon based on information. I actually don't think that Gayle was a particularly informationy player - he almost certainly wasn't going to be scum with Neto, but apart from that I can't see much. Still, I think that SPS's response (that he didn't really know what he was arguing with Amished about) is a pretty convincing one.

I find SPS fine. I find CMAR to have claimed tracker. I find CSL slightly scummy and badly in need of replacement. I find ortolan scummy. Someone asked for my town reads - I'm undecided in normal games whether these are worth publishing. In this game, I don't ever intend to say who is town.

vote:ortolan

I haven't read through this yet, but before, in your ISO 1 I believe, you said that Neto, Yos, and Gayle's argument was definitely not "town vs. town nonsense". Ironic how both Yos and Gayle are now dead and have flipped town, huh? Why is Netopolis not on your scumlist?

[CryMeARiver]

.... You guys really don't see this?

Vote: Netlava

Oh, I do see it. ISO on Net as soon as I'm done with the posts I have to work on for another game. I really expect to find scum with a Net ISO <_<

I'll be waiting, the only thing I remember about Netlava is him tunneling Ortolan pretty much the entire game.

[CryMeARiver]

Oh, wait. I think I get it. His vote changed three times in four, not-so-short posts. Every time, he changed to a popular candidate for a lynch. I'm definitely going to put more pressure on him.

vote: Netlava

Wow, I just glanced through his ISO and noticed that he's been doing this all game. I'd be really interested to see what his full ISO turns up.

[CryMeARiver]

* Netlava bandwagoning is indeed interesting. He stated indeed that he thought ortolan's action suspicious, but this was buried in a post with other suspicions, and didn't really stood up as "top wagon". Netlava, can you explain yourself?

* I don't see why Fishy looks scum. Actually, an iso of him gives me reasonable town vibes from him.

* I'm a bit confused at how fast the danakillsu wagon vanished. I never really liked it, but the speed to its dismissal leads me to think he was scum-driven. Netopalis, do you still find danakillsu scummy? I feel like you are a bit following the town flow these last pages...

FoS: Netopalis

On another note, it was proposed that CMAR claims who his target targetted. I think this is something that should be done.

(To close my previous notice to the mod, I have an internet connection at my hotel, so I should be able to continue playing this game normally)

With regard to your danakillsu wagon statement, I myself have had the same idea about the ZEEnon (sorasgoof). That wagon fell apart rather quickly mostly because of a neighbor claim. In my past cases, there has been scum/SK in the neighborhood always. I have yet to see an all town neighborhood, so I don't believe they are very common.

FoS sorasgoof

I will gladly out the target of the action when someone provides me a valid reason for it. From my point of view, it would aid the town in no way.

[CryMeARiver]

Hi!
With a 55-page game I expect to need 3 days to be fully up to date, but I might post observations from midread if they seem relevant enough. Anything I need to know in the meantime?

Day 0 is largely uneccesary to read besides the minimal fact that ZEEnon (sorasgoof) kinda buddied with known scum tate.

[CryMeARiver]

Hi!
With a 55-page game I expect to need 3 days to be fully up to date, but I might post observations from midread if they seem relevant enough. Anything I need to know in the meantime?

Day 0 is largely uneccesary to read besides the minimal fact that ZEEnon (sorasgoof) kinda buddied with known scum tate.

Which I had nothing to do with, and really doesn't mean anything. >_>

Sorry for the inactivity. I just bought Modern Warfare 2, so that's taken most of my free time. :p

1. Yeah, we realize you had nothing to do with it. No one said you did. I'm sorry you replaced into a scummy role. Actually, no I'm not. Despite not having anything to do with it, you must acknowledge it, and possibly explain it, rather than ignore it.
2. Yes, it still does mean something and trying to ignore it is stupid. It means exactly what it sounds like. Your replacement attempted to buddy with now-known scum.

[CryMeARiver]

Hi!
With a 55-page game I expect to need 3 days to be fully up to date, but I might post observations from midread if they seem relevant enough. Anything I need to know in the meantime?

Day 0 is largely uneccesary to read besides the minimal fact that ZEEnon (sorasgoof) kinda buddied with known scum tate.

Which I had nothing to do with, and really doesn't mean anything. >_>

Sorry for the inactivity. I just bought Modern Warfare 2, so that's taken most of my free time. :p

1. Yeah, we realize you had nothing to do with it. No one said you did. I'm sorry you replaced into a scummy role. Actually, no I'm not. Despite not having anything to do with it, you must acknowledge it, and possibly explain it, rather than ignore it.
2. Yes, it still does mean something and trying to ignore it is stupid. It means exactly what it sounds like. Your replacement attempted to buddy with now-known scum.

1. There is no way I could possibly know why he would have tried to appear to be buddying Tate. Therefore, I can't explain it.
2. No, it doesn't.

The fact that you are trying to ignore what happened is utterly stupid. It is like Obama trying to ignore the war that Bush got us into (no, I'm not an anti-war person, it's just an analogy). While you may not be able to explain, stop freakin' ignoring it.

[CryMeARiver]

While I completely agree with the scuminess of Netlava due to his being on every single bandwagon thus far, and I will later ISO him since no one else decided to, I would like to say something rather important.
Our best chance as town is to attempt a target at the last Egyptian scum. While individual scumhunting is useful, if we nail the Egyptian scum, we take off an entire NK presumably. While it is the most helpful, it is probably also the easiest seeing as how we can make connections between fifi, tate, and anyone else. This leads me to a great point that someone else brought up, I can't remember who. Pwnman had a significant connection with fifi and tate during the reaction test of the daykill by RayFrost. I would love it if somebody could ISO Shotty to the Body/pwnman as I do believe this could result in the last Egyptian scum being nailed and town getting rid of a NK. As for me, I have to ISO Netlava and I'm going to bed right now. But for now,

Unvote: Fishy

[CryMeARiver]

@Netlava: Since you could technically be hammered by a few people now (L3), I do think a claim is in order.
@Doc Potter:

votes ZEE for his stance on TTTT.

Did he not vote ZEEnon as a pressure vote as well? I seem to remember he did.

Just gonna ISO the votes of Netlava first:

Votes Yos for the double vote

Vote: zEEnon

His stance on tatethetot deserves scrutiny.

And later,

Ok, ZEEnon's posting now, so I suppose I can move my pressure vote.

Votes ZEEnon for no real reason? Easy bandwagon

Goes on to vote Gayle for being "a bit overly sensational". The quote he refers to is Gayle saying something is an "outright lie". This is a VERY weak reason for a vote and a VERY easy bandwagon vote.

Vote: ortolan

Don't like his attempted hammer on Gayle, especially when Gayle hadn't claimed yet and especially when he says that Gayle isn't his suspect. Vote: ortolan

At this point, Gayle had refused to claim and at this point, no matter who Orto's suspect was, he was not reversing the bandwagon. We got the most information out of this lynch that we could.

Unvote, Vote: CSL

For inactivity...

Easy Bandwagon

Votes Steam Powered Shovel for

I guess I can go for a SPS wagon, simply because SPS received the vote from The1fifi.

He is not even your suspect. Hmm, where have I heard that one before? Easy Bandwagon

Yeah, the ortolan wagon is still my top choice.

Unvote, vote: ortolan

Bandwagon switch!

[CryMeARiver]

His stance on tatethetot deserves scrutiny.

That's not a pressure vote.

You are absolutely right. 2 or 3 posts later Netlava posts this:

Ok, ZEEnon's posting now, so I suppose I can move my pressure vote.

Contradiction is quite evident.

[CryMeARiver]

Let's get on a SPS wagon or maybe a Sora wagon; hell, we could even go lurker hunting and kill Shotty to the Body (who I didn't know was in the game...).

Yes, let's wagon on me. I think I'm the best choice.

If you're not gonna try, I'd like for you to request your replacement

[CryMeARiver]

1. There are probably multiple scumgroups so I have a harder time telling who's scum so I have indeed been bandwagoning.

Apparently everybody is scum..

I agree. These are my thoughts exactly.

2. My pressure votes

are

pressure votes. I am aware that people tend to find "pressure votes" suspicious since they might be a way to backpedal, but I even word my votes beforehand to hint that they are indeed pressure votes.

Earlier, I said...

His stance on tatethetot deserves scrutiny.

I never said I found zeeNON suspicious. I simply said that it should be looked into. Later, I even EXPLICITLY revealed that my vote was a pressure vote.

Also, there is no contradiction between this quote and my earlier quote:

But more importantly, finding zEEnon scummy for wanting to give the vote to tate makes it seem like he's trying to redirect the town to his own liking.

Actually... now that I look at it... this adds to ortolan's scumminess... because it seems like he

knew

tttt would flip scum...

But either way, there is no contradiction because my initial post was before I knew tttt's alignment. My second post is in hindsight. That's why they are different.

3. Someone asked me to explain my post 27. My explanation: CMAR looked kind of suspicious pre-D1 to me, so it looks more likely that scum might give him the vote in hopes that CMAR, if town, could get lynched soon. SPS, it's harder to tell why scum may have given him that vote. Seems kind of sudden, really...

You have been asked by multiple people for a claim.

[CryMeARiver]

Raider, Net had a chance to post with 10 votes on him. He's a big boy.

So you think I should just go ahead with the hammer? Multiple people called for a claim and he gave us nothing with his last post.

[CryMeARiver]

Ok, fine.

I am a

bomb

. Whoever hammers me, dies.

That's a safe claim for scum. Lets get another scummy player to hammer him. Fishy?

[CryMeARiver]

Sure you are, Netlava.

I'm willing to hammer him.

Ok, but only if you aren't an important PR

[CryMeARiver]

someone else unvote and I'll vote so you can hammer: I have 3 votes

[CryMeARiver]

I want ortolan to hammer.

Well people think SPS is just as scummy and Ortolan isn't here right now, SPS is.

[CryMeARiver]

Okay, here's what I want to see happen. I'll unvote, leaving him at L-4. CMAR will use his three votes to put him at L-1, and someone can hammer from there.

Unvote

I agree

Vote: Netlava

SPS is free to hammer now. SPS claim first please

[CryMeARiver]

I am shocked and astounded that I am not dead. But as I notice that only two kills occurred last night, I am very grateful as there must have been some sort of protection on me last night and thank you to whoever was on me, as I do believe I have some useful information. But since I am alive, I have a lot of explaining to do.

Results

Night 1: Investigated tate - Tate visited Yosarian
Night 2: Investigated Amished - Amished visited Fifi
Night 3: Investigated sorasgoof - No visit

The only reason I can think of for this for Amished is that there is a serial killer or mafia member who could bypass the protection on Fifi. This would make sense for an SK to have the ability seeing as it is rather hard for an SK to win in this setup. I thought of this exact idea that Amished was a mafia doctor, but I thought the chances were minimal. Still, I tried to bread crumb this slimmer of an idea by asking

Though I've been thinking that a doc obviously should have been on Yos N1, so maybe there is a scum role that can break through doc's protect???

Still, I must admit that at the time, I thought that there was no way that the idea was actually true. I have yet to come across a role that could bypass doc protections or a mafia doctor. Yesterday, I thought that Amished was the vigilante who had killed Fifi, since we had almost all agreed that there was a probable vig yesterday.

After my suspicions of ZEEnon were brought back up late yesterday and the apparent lack of interest and sarcasm showed by his replacement sorasgoof, I tracked him last night. To my disappointment, I received a no visit result therefore almost confirming him as a vanilla neighbor.

I am not sure of the idea of one large scum team suggested by Parama and I think that Doc Potter agreed way to readily. I read it as a minor scumslip, as if DocPotter, possibly being part of another scum team, thought that the idea would cast suspicion away from his team. But this could just be possibly that I have never encountered a scum group greater than 3 or 4, so I am not used to large scum teams. So I do believe that the best place to start is looking for scum is through Amished.

[CryMeARiver]

HO CRAP
Amished got RB'ed? Or what? 0_o

Wow, I didn't think of the most obvious choice

[CryMeARiver]

Yeah that's kinda what I thought too, but the problem is now we're getting into technical things.

Mod: would a RB'ed player still visit?

I doubt it. I thinking SK or scum has special abilities possibly. Has anyone ever heard of a role that bypasses protection? I will research it.

[CryMeARiver]

Vote Count

ortolan (2) - fishythefish
sorasgoof (1) - Elscouta

Not Voting (22) - sorasgoof, Shotty to the Body, nachomamma8, danakillsu, DocPotter, CryMeARiver, raider1869, Ojanen, ortolan, hp [leaves], Steam-Powered Shovel, Parama

~I will not answer any questions about interactions between any roles

Awww
So he could have been roleblocked.