Mini 954 ~ Mafia at the 11th Hour (Game Over!)

[Porkens]

Hurray day 1!!

[Porkens]

Oh, cool, are we making up new languages? I want to play!

ksak askk iais isis didi aki, mason partner!

vote: Nikanor

[Porkens]

Oh, cool, are we making up new languages? I want to play!

I don't know, but I

think

that Portuguese is an actual language...:S Only a thought, though.

I'm intrigued.

[Porkens]

He could potentially just not know the game has begun...

Why are you sticking up for him?

unvote; Vote: Dramonic

[Porkens]

He could potentially just not know the game has begun...

Why are you sticking up for him?

unvote; Vote: Dramonic

Because it happened to me once to just not see a game and get prodded. Granted, I was scum, but the not seeing the game wasn't alignment indicative

hmmmm, I'm still not comfortable with you sticking up for him. Or sticking up for him but not Tony.

He could potentially just not know the game has begun...

Why are you sticking up for him?

unvote; Vote: Dramonic

I personally don't find what Dramonic said unreasonable. I didn't realize that the game had begun right away.

Why are you defending him?

[Porkens]

Let's give tony his power:

unvote, Vote: TonyMontana

[Porkens]

am I already voting for dramonic?

unvote; Vote: Dramonic

only way to be sure.

[Porkens]

why is that scummy?

[Porkens]

Which one?

[Porkens]

I really did want to give Tony his power, but that was before dramonic danced on the fence and thereby put his neck out.

[Porkens]

Well, after rereading the OP, I see that I'm a failure at life.

I thought that if we hung TM, he'd get his ghost powers and we could see how that worked.

You guys could lynch me, then I'd get ghost powers. I'd be fine with that.

[Porkens]

The game is called 11th hour, the OP refers to "One last shot."

maybe I'm reading WAY in-between the lines but...I doubt it?

So lynch whoever, we'll see.

Dramonic is my A+ #1 pick for scum for that "well maaaaybe your town and maaaaybe your not" business, but I'd lynch anyone today.

[Porkens]

Unsolicited Thoughts:

Given I've only played the one game with him, but I feel that TownPork was very different in his playstyle than I'm experiencing here.

This and the question dodging {multiple requests for his reaction to AwesomeWagon with no direct response} is making me nervous, thus him being on my short list.

We just got out of a game where you, me, and Porkens were the scum team, so WTF is up with this statement.

lol, seriously

Nik and the other guy haven't raised flags for me. I have no read on them as strong as my read on Dramonic.

Misslynches aren't bad on day 1, whether they give powers or not.

[Porkens]

You rep yourself.

[Porkens]

Unsolicited Thoughts:

Given I've only played the one game with him, but I feel that TownPork was very different in his playstyle than I'm experiencing here. This and the question dodging {multiple requests for his reaction to AwesomeWagon with no direct response} is making me nervous, thus him being on my short list.

could you show me these "multiple requests?"

[Porkens]

@Pork

The Case

- d3x p106
I consider this a 'soft request'. I'd expect people to comment on the case one way or the other, but I'm not going to hold that directly against you.

Request #1

- d3x p123

@Pom and Pork- Thoughts on AwesomeWagon?

Pretty straight forward.

Request #2

- VPB p131

What are your thoughts on Nikanor and Percy?

This came directly after talking to/about you. I have no reason to believe he was speaking to anyone else directly.

Also note, you posted between each of these, thus prompting the requests. After your p134 {where you replied to VPB's p131}, I called you out for dodging and VPB seconded. You finally gave your 'no read' answer in p138.

Haven't I said I'd hammer anyone day one? get the AW to L-1.

I thought I had answered 131.

I did post, and I wasn't dodging as far as I knew. I asked which votes were being refered to, and answered with no-read which is an answer.


@Percy:

I'd hammer you with relish for your last post. My reason for voting TM was transparent and straight-forward.

He was the closest to L-1, so I went for the easy road. Soon after that, I said I'd be fine with being at L-1 myself. So...

Anyways.

[Porkens]

Moving my vote isn't ncecessary at the moment.

You asked for reasoning, I gave it to you, call it scumreasoning at your pleasure.

Putting TM at L-1 suddenly seemed less appealing than lynching Dramonic (who is scum) for his mind-blowing display of fence sitting.

[Porkens]

We need a night.

unvote
Vote: Nikanor

[Porkens]

We need to put our lurkers to the wall.

Them not posting at all would be, in its own way, as informative as anything they might say in a post.

[Porkens]

Porkens-your reasoning is stupid at best. Hurrying the day along does not pressure lurkers near as much as continuing the day and noting their lurking publically.

That's what happens when you try to squeeze reasoning out of me, sometimes. Sorry

[Porkens]

Let me clarify then, do you think Nik is scum or you just want a night/give Nik an ability?

I just want to lynch someone. Nik or Dram or Percy would be fine for me.

[Porkens]

silly questions in 151. Meta defence in 151. 151 in general. OMGUS too

[Porkens]

Seraphim is due for a prod.

Vote: Porkens

@Porkens
Why would you ever be willing to lynch anybody on day one? It looks to me like an excuse to put off scum hunting. Mislynches are certainly bad on day one; they are bad every day.

I believe that long day ones are detrimental to the town. I have to data to support that, but it is my feeling.

I guess it sort of is putting off scumhunting, in a way. I, personally, can RARELY scum-hunt effectively on day one. Sure there's the occasional gift scum who puts his neck on the block, but usually it's just noise to me.

Compared to a later-game situation, day one mislynches aren't particularly bad.

[Porkens]

I believe that long day ones are detrimental to the town.

Two week days = long? LOL

I was speaking in generalities, as the question was posed to me:

Why would you ever be willing to lynch anybody on day one?

[Porkens]

Watch this:

unvote

Vote: Seraphim

10: Ignore
20: Feign ignorance
30: Promise a read
40: Replace out
50: Go to lynch.

[Porkens]

oh, sorry.

unvote

Vote: Cobalt

Welcome!

[Porkens]

Niks at L-2 now.

[Porkens]

DDD is town.

Semioldguy is SCUM SCUM SCUM.


If I were vig, I'd shoot semioldguy in the face.

unvote

Vote: Nik

[Porkens]

Seraphim/Cobalt is likely town, given Nikanor's attempts to get a wagon on Seraphim going. d3x as well, for his push on Nik.

As for the rest, re-reading.

A one (briefly 2)-person wagon created by flailing scum gives the wagonee town cred?

Vote: Semioldguy

[Porkens]

I find interesting is that he says he doesn't understand why either suspects the other, but only asks DDD why he thinks Tony is scum, and not what Tony thinks of DDD.

@semioldguy

: What is your read on DDD?

I read this as Tony being implicated. Is that what your thinking, as well?

[Porkens]

Crickets.

C'mon guys. No leads? Just vote SOG.

[Porkens]

oh yeah?

[Porkens]

huh.

unvote

?

[Porkens]

nope. [/b]Vote: Semioldguy[/b]

[Porkens]

nope.

Vote: Semioldguy

[Porkens]

That's awesome.

[Porkens]

Letting yourself die if your town when you can prevent it isn't good for the town.

[Porkens]

SOG should stay against the wall until he either uses his power and gives the hammer vote to someone not on his wagon or gets lynched.

[Porkens]

VP - sorry for my non-entity-ness. I won't make excuses. It is what it is.

[Porkens]

I really don't have any for you. I think that in this game I've been accused of dodging questions? It wasn't my intent or I didn't understand the questions.

I think we are on the right track with SOG.

[Porkens]

Because you aren't willing to use your ability to help the town.

[Porkens]

@Porkens
I don't percieve my ability as being helpful to the town since I believe I will be lynched anyway even if I use it, whether that be today or tomorrow. Mislynches become more costly the further into the game you get. If a mislynch is going to happen it is better that it happen earlier instead of later.

If you believe this and are still unwilling to try to prove your claim then you should hammer yourself and save us the misslynch later on.

[Porkens]

SOG was popular opinion?

[Porkens]

SOG, use your power and give me the hammer vote. I'll hammer Cobalt righ tnow/

[Porkens]

Ahhh, because we are now all, technically, at L-1.

[Porkens]

Not Voting: Debonair Danny DiPietro, d3x, dramonic, Jahudo, Percy, Pomegranate, Porkens, Cobalt, semioldguy, VP Baltar


The fact that SOG USED his ability and wasn't lying about it. gives him town points in my book.
Cobalt, a thousand times cobalt is good for the dying.
I've got Jahudo, VP, and DDD down as town.

[Porkens]

Sorry for the absence.

I'm horrified. The Cobalt lynch is great. go.

[Porkens]

Cyan is a good character.

Haven't we had this discussion already?~ ~Vi

Percy and Cobolt for scum all the way in my book.

vote: Percy

[Porkens]

The two people on my scum list are voting for me, huh. Killing the guy who GAVE AWAY his power and USED it in a protown way was the dumbest thing to do. Percy pushed it because cobalt was the OBVIOUS lynch. Herod makes MEGACASE 4.0, obviously replacing in scum.

I don't care two shits abou tany lurker fight.

votes.

[Porkens]

The two people on my scum list are voting for me, huh. Killing the guy who GAVE AWAY his power and USED it in a protown way was the least town thing to do. Percy pushed it because cobalt was the OBVIOUS lynch. Herod makes MEGACASE 4.0, obviously replacing in scum.

I don't care two shits abou tany lurker fight.

votes.

Sorry. I shouldn't post hungry. EBWOQ

[Porkens]

Your interpretation of my votes is, sorry, wrong. You see a pattern where there is none, save that yes I would have voted for any strong wagon on day 1.

The power doesn't prove alignment, but the USE of the power was a strong town-tell. I have no clue on earth why he gave it to you, but the fact that he did use it gave him cred in my eyes, at least. I think it should have in yours, too.

My edit changed the word "dumbest" to "least town."

Someone else said lurker fight - it wasn't my term.

[Porkens]

No I would have hammered cobolt. But I needed to keep the pressure on in order to motivate him.

[Porkens]

I don't particularily think Dram is scum at the moment. why did you defend him?

[Porkens]

For me, he would show that he was town if he used his power.

As long as he withheld his power under the declaration that it wouldn't do any good to use it, he was scum in my mind.

Does that make sense?

[Porkens]

Yes, his use of his power trumped my suspicions. I would have let him live till endgame.

[Porkens]

For me, he would show that he was town if he used his power.

As long as he withheld his power under the declaration that it wouldn't do any good to use it, he was scum in my mind.

Does that make sense?

No. It doesn't make any sense at all. If he didn't use his ability, he would almost certainly have been lynched. How does using an ability to prevent his lynch show that he's town? Would scum be less likely to self-preserve?

Ahhh I see; the missing piece of the puzzle here is that thought he was lying about his power.

[Porkens]

As I said before; my read on SOG changed when he used his power and it worked like he said it did. It was a pro-town thing to do.

[Porkens]

I don't think it's realistic that scum-SOG who did not have the power he described would claim that he did have that power.

d3x, what do you think of Porkens? Pom, have you reread him?

why arent you yelling at percy or juhado then?

[Porkens]

Sorry, I failed at reading. Forget I asked that. (jedi-mind trick).

Ok, so you are going to lynch me, that's fine I guess. There, boom, done.

However, I want you all to start thinking about what your going to do when I flip town.

I hope my power is cop or vig, oh that would be so sweet.

If I get vig I'm shooting percy.

[Porkens]

I hate day 1.
I like to wagon-jump.
I hammered scum.
I didn't (ultimately) support lynch of town.

I can't help but feel that you guys are looking for the double secret scum.

[Porkens]

pom voted Dram for the same reason I did.

She seems to follow up on her promises to explain/rereads

Doesn't seem ESPECIALLY scummy to me

[Porkens]

@Porkens: If you hated D1 and just wanted to get it over with and who even cares who gets lynched let's just have a night I take no responsibility for my D1 voting etc. etc. then why did you leave the Nikanor wagon to vote for the person Nikanor was voting for when Nikanor was at L-1? No answer?



Who did Nikanor vote for? I forget. I like to wagon hop.


MY l-1 power is a SECRET

[Porkens]

What about Seraphim replacing out caused you to find his previous play scummy for the first time (ignore/feign ignorance/promise re-read)? You came up with that quick after he replaced out, so were you thinking about it earlier than that?

I do not remember.

MY l-1 power is a SECRET

My god, what incredibly TOWN play you've got there!

...really?

[Porkens]

...

So your special ability was to increase your lynch threshold?

yes

[Porkens]

Porkens wrote:
I hate day 1.
I like to wagon-jump.
I hammered scum.
I didn't (ultimately) support lynch of town.
1. Null tell
2. Null tell
3. Could be bussing
4. You didn't explain why SOG's action was pro-town and I still don't agree it was pro-town. Because I think he would have eventually used his power to help save himself as scum. The idea that it wouldn't help him could've been a nice touch if he thought the power he had wouldn't save him.

3. Right, I could have been bussing, but is that really the strongest thing y'all have to go on? That I COULD HAVE been bussing?

[Porkens]

I had already used my power when Percy asked about it. I was just being a smart ass.

A case? meh; there's plenty out there, I think. However, I doubt that if I, porkens, make a case, anyone will look at it as anythig other than trying to wriggle out from under the hammer.

I'd look at Percy; using the kinghammer on the person who gave it to him. Or Cobalt, whose replacement came in hyper-agressive. I see a strong connection between Percy and Cobolt.

Or those who aren't posting at all; dx, dram, for example.

Pom has delivered on her rereads, attention-focused or not.

[Porkens]

I'd say that all three are in my second tier of suspects. It would help if d3x were posting.

[Porkens]

welcome

[Porkens]

I continue to have limited access. Here's a quick post. More soon.

Who did Nikanor vote for? I forget. I like to wagon hop.

Lynch plz.

Right, I could have been bussing, but is that really the strongest thing y'all have to go on? That I COULD HAVE been bussing?

Porkens: Hey, here are the things that make me town!
Jahudo: They're not towntells.
Porkens: Then since there is no case against me, I must be town!
Double

I agree that the Hero/Cobalt/Sera slot is town

Why?

The Nikanor push against him is hard to reconcile as a bussing or distancing move.

I came to that conclusion before the DDD and Tony/SOG flips

Can you point to where this happened?

Sure.

Porkens still #1. Jahudo is probably #2 still... Need to re-read him.

scum.

[Porkens]

1. @

Pork531

-

yes I would have voted for any strong wagon on day 1.

Then why did you leave the Wagon? It was a strong Wagon and you left it for an RVS? I don't get it.

7.

The power doesn't prove alignment, but the USE of the power was a strong town-tell.

Why? You reassert him using the ability solidified your TownRead on him numerous times, but I don't understand why.

2. @

Pork548

- How is it so impossible for sog to have been Scum, received this ability, described it, and used it?

4. @

Pork573

- Why not give it {building a case} a shot?

5. @

Pork575

-Why do you think I'm scummy? Just because I haven't been onsite?

1. It was not RVS, Serraphim was being scummy (this slots been replaced three times now?). At that moment, I certainly would have liked a Serra lynch.

7. It didn't solidify my read, it made my read. It went down in a town way. I know that power and alignment aren't related, but it was a town way to go down. But fuck, if it doesn't look that way to ANYONE else; that's fine, I'll stop talkin' about it, except to say that I was right and Percy was wrong, wrong, wrong triple infinity (or scum).

2. It's not impossible at all, but from my point of view, he should have lived through yesterday for doing what he did.

4. I have, I did. It's Percy and Cobolt (herod).

5. I never said I think you're scummy.

[Porkens]

I see where you are coming from when you say it's a "missrep" but that list was supposed to represent the sum of the case against me. The fact that it wasn't added to is what prompted me to say "is that the best you have?"



I think I full-answered about my vote on Serra (off the nik wagon)

Yes, being replaced I believe is a scumjtell (no data to back that up)

[Porkens]

Herod; you're talking about the replacement thing?

I'm pretty shocked by your reaction here. Are you saying that you think I'm lying about what I believe? What purpose would that serve?

I don't know that I've ever written it down in those words before.

Can you show me that I'm wrong? Has there been any data collected to disprove what I said? Why are you so confident that it is flat "false"?

[Porkens]

@Porkens: I didn't have much time when I was writing that, and I misremembered this thread as talking about replacements rather than last-to-confirm. So I mistakenly believed that someone had taken a sample and proved the idea false.
I don't think anyone has ever researched the question before. IMO, lurking and then not being replaced is a scumtell, but flaking or requesting replacement is just an issue of being unable to continue due to real life.

but that list was supposed to represent the sum of the case against me. The fact that it wasn't added to is what prompted me to say "is that the best you have?"

Are you saying that your post 557 summarized the case against you? Because I don't think it did that.

@Jahudo: I can't recall seeing you discuss players' past games before, so I wondered if you had more experiences with ToD. It looked like there might be some OMGUS in your response to ToD's vote.

@Dramonic: good luck for your exams!

What would you add to the summary?

[Porkens]

Not that trying to mislead the town isn't scummy, but that's the reason he uses to vote?

You're ignoring that I was on d3x first and his defense changed my opinion of both him and Nikanor. What about my posts leading up to my Nikanor vote didn't indicate I was investigating d3x above everyone else? And that it was d3x's case that made me look at Nikanor at the time of my vote.

That's what caused my vote to be the 4th one. You don't seem to have evidence of any other reasoning.

Also, with a lack of ToD scum games, I don't feel confident saying he is more likely to replace in as scum and think about voting first.

So....... Porkens lynch?

for what reason other than general wagoneering?

[Porkens]

He wins points with me for not being on my wagon (OMGUDS ?), and for being against Herod.

He's not just going along - it would have been super easy to just jump on my wagon (see Herod).

He did replace in, so that's probably a mark against him (if I'm trying to be consistant) BUT it's not like Sera who promised a reread and then quit.

BUUUUUUUUUUUT probably since he's one of the few people not on my ass out of sheer laziness, I have some fuzzy feelings for him today.

So, I like him today, but I don't want to say that he's certainly town.

[Porkens]

juhado percy fight huh?

[Porkens]

Vote: No Lynch

I am leaving for Brazil tomorrow, and I'm sketchy on internet access for a couple days. VLA for a bit.

[Porkens]

One more check-in before the flights begin.

I'm contuzed about the ghost votes, if that is indeed what they are, but I wouldn't encourage too much speculation unless you can prove that they

change

based on the living conversations.

I'm hopeful that I'll have once-a-day-or-so access starting on Sunday.

I'll be back in town the first Sunday in June.

The only problem that I see with NLing today is that if there's another kill floating around out there; it's game over for the town.

Buuuuut you can see where my vote <still> is.

[Porkens]

I wouldn't encourage too much speculation unless you can prove that they change based on the living conversations.

I don't think this would be too difficult to test. Simply ask the Ghost Voters to place a single Vote on each of us for a single VoteCount and then go back to their original Votes after it's been posted, or some such plan.

I doubt that they can communicate with each other. They've all flipped, so barring something like death miller/death anti-miller, they're confirmed to each other. If they could talk, they would probably choose a single person by consensus and all vote for that person.

I think we should resolve these two questions before we consider lynching:
1. Are these extra votes coming from dead players (and if so, why is the lynch threshold 6 instead of 7?)
- I think the answer is yes, and maybe only townies are able to ghost-vote, so that would make 11 total votes not including Nikanor.
2. Is it better to lynch or not to lynch?
- The ghosts seem to be saying we should lynch, but it's possible that they're just unable to vote No Lynch.

Hey I found some internet in Dallas.

There's the risk that scum are behind the ghost votes and setting us up to follow "confirmed" town ghost votes. My tinfoil hat is tingling at Herod's posts. I prefer a NL.

[Porkens]

It's Herod and Percy, just like it's always been Herod and Percy.

Brazil was sooooo good




Herod I don't have time to look at the posts you quoted, but I think your splitting hairs or overgeneralizing or something.

Vote: Percy

[Porkens]

it would have been super easy to just jump on my wagon (see Herod).

Can you explain the reference to me here?

You jumped on my <easy/popular> wagon when you replaced in.

He [ToD] did replace in, so that's probably a mark against him (if I'm trying to be consistant) BUT it's not like Sera who promised a reread and then quit.

Will reread Porkens.

And then she quit.
Now I don't agree that it's a scumtell, but you're obviously not getting your facts right.

You are obviously stretching for minutia to hold against me. I never even saw that bit about rereading me.

BUUUUUUUUUUUT probably since he's one of the few people not on my ass out of sheer laziness, I have some fuzzy feelings for him today.

Who do you think was voting for you out of laziness?

[/quote]

No one had a decent case against me; the votes were piling on due to a lack of anything better to go off of. Juhado and Dramonic were lazy (herod and percy were scum)

[Porkens]

K, I'm back.

d3x - where are you going, where have you been?

Long Roller Derby weekend. It was great!

I'm willing to put the game up for a Pork Lynch. It makes the most sense to me atm. I'd like some discussion before throwing down, though. Mainly, I don't like that assuming PorkTown and PercyTown, the remaining 2 Scum would just have to log on and Hammer the game to Town Lose. I think it's

very

reckless play and it's more likely to come from Scum than Town imo.

That said, I'm not buying PorkTown. I believe VPTown {unless the team's VP/Percy- which I have serious problems with} due in part to VP posting after Pork's Vote.

ok, fair enough.

unvote

my metasecret super vote is still on Percy.

[Porkens]

I meant that it was fair to expect discussion before a vote due to lylo.

there no such vote; I'm just sayin FOS

[Porkens]

There was an implied, or in-spirit, wagon on me. Yours was the first vote of the day, but it was clear that I would have votes that day.

Herod - Origional post and vote didn't make sense to me at the time. It didn't seem to express a strong enough suspision to warrent a vote.
Percy - "I like the Porkens wagon"
Juhado - He did actually say some stuff; I'm fine with this on reread.
Dram - "nom nom nom"

[Porkens]

My advice would be to pursue some fucking avenues.

If I've been on the defensive this game, it's because I've been put on the defensive.

The case against me isn't as tight as Percy says it is. Do read him in ISO, read it and try to see, clearly, what he's holding against me.

[Porkens]

Now go look at Herod and Percy's interactions.

[Porkens]

81% left.

Vote: Percy

The case against me is flimsy. Other avenues are not being explored because I've been an easy lynch.

I take responsibility, but jesus. Wait till percy answers VP's questions at least.

[Porkens]

I'll be flabberghasted if Herod doesn't hammer and end this now.

[Porkens]

Fuck. Too bad.

I apologize for my shitty play this game; I know I sat on the defensive, but I still say that Percy was obvscum.

dx, huh? Well, I'll admit it; I'm surprised.

gg scum.

see y'all next tecmo.

[Porkens]

Oh lord, if Baltar got away with this...I'm gunna cry tears of blood.

[Porkens]

Vi, dude, bro, dude,

Thanks for modding. I clicket on some of the links and listened to the musics. I think it was a very cool idea.

I loved the 11th hour powers concept, and I thought you had a nice selection of them. Very ingenious.

Thanks to the other players.

See y'all on the fippy.