Square Enix Mafia I: Diabolus Erus (GAME OVER)

[Kdub]

Vote: Iecerint

I don't believe Ultros as pro-town.

[Kdub]

I don't believe Iecerint was being honest there, and was just pissing about in The Inn, and you're hoping people will jump on the wagon and get a lynch through easily.

I didn't see his post as a joke, but after reading it again, I can see how I might have interpreted it the wrong way. Let's let him answer for himself.

[Kdub]

I said flavour wasnt just flavour because the kills were pretty defined. It's not just "somebody's dead", it's "somebody's dead and he was struck by lightning and the other was hit by a white tornado *hint hint*"

I am Ramuh, yes. But I didnt kill anyone.

When you made your post in the Inn, were you intending to breadcrumb? If so, why were you agreeing with ani, who was pointing out a problem with the nameclaim suggestion?

Still would like to hear from Iecerint.

[Kdub]

I was 100% serious about my N0 claim. I thought the level of detail in the claim would have made that perfectly clear. I thought it was a good idea to claim it N0 on the offchance that my N0 flip would lead to problems outguessing scumnumbers and so forth down the line. I wish I'd emphasized why I'd claimed and that I was serious so as to have avoided what looked like actual claiming at first, but I guess the anonymous nameclaims that ultimately resulted were a good idea.

I can understand your reasoning if you are being truthful I suppose. However, we have evidence that canonical alignment is related to alignment in this game, and you realize that Ultros is a villain right? Does your role PM give any flavor reasons why Ultros would be town-aligned?

[Kdub]

Iecerint, can you clarify:

If I die, people will think I'm no good, but that's just because the real baddies haven't shown up yet. I lose my Death Miller curse after at least one "anti-town" player has flipped (counts scum, SK, cult, but not neutral survivors). If I flip simultaneous with an anti-town player before another anti-town player has flipped, I'll still be cursed, though, so watch out! (For example, if scum and me are both killed N0, we'll both flip guilty, but if scum flips guilty N0, I'll no longer be a Death Miller starting D1. If I flip before scum, I'll flip guilty.)

If you die before an anti town player has flipped, then you flip "

Ultros (Mafia)

"?
If you die after an anti town player has flipped, you flip "

Ultros (Death Miller)

"?
Does anything happen if you die first, then an anti town player flips?

I'm just having a tough time seeing this as a legitimate game mechanic. That plus the fact that Ultros is an antagonist plus the ink thing (good catch there, didn't even think about that) makes me uneasy about keeping you alive, especially since you otherwise have no abilities that would be useful to the town.

FoS: Zodiark

, all of his posts have been IIoA except for an OMGUS accusation of Glork, which clearly isn't the case.

[Kdub]

That said, I'd rather try and hit another scum before Icerint if possible, because frankly, incase he's telling the truth about his death miller role It'd make analysing people's interactions in this game alot easier if we managed to hit another scum before him so we know for sure if Icerint is really scum.

I thought about this as well. If he is telling the truth, it would be better to save him until after a non-town flip. The problem is, what if he is lying scum and actually has night actions? Should we really give him another night to use them?

[Kdub]

Lastly, is there anyone who has been prodded and allowed to not post? They may be under the effect of Silence/Mute, and we should be on the lookout for other status effects. Oil would increase vulnerability to Fire, Poison may have a delayed kill effect (Cure, anyone?), Confusion would result in a self-vote/self-NK, umm... I guess berserk might have some effect too. If any others turn up, I'll dig up a list of all the status effects. I don't think Buffs are too likely though, unless Shell/Clear to block status effects, or maybe Haste to give doublevotes?

DarkLightA has only posted once and it was a random vote. Maybe a bit too early to speculate about post restrictions, he could just be busy (or purposely lurking). I assume that if someone is inflicted with a status effect, they are informed as Glork was. If anyone else out there has a status effect, they should probably mention it so we know what we are up against and aren't surprised by it later on.

---

Vote Count:

PranaDevil: 5

(inHimshallibe, Iecerint, bill1148, DarkLightA, Nautilus)

Iecerint: 4

(KDub, Glork, MehPlusRawr, PranaDevil, dramonic)

Glork: 2

(Zodiark13)

dramonic: 1

(bv310)

Zodiark13: 1

(Devotress)

bv310: 1

(wolframnhart)

Chronopie: 1

(WorseExcuse)

Not Voting:

Antifinity
Chronopie
FC Groningen
JPSalazar
killa seven

Lynch:

11 votes.

Deadline:

May 2nd - 5:40 PM EST

[Kdub]

This whole Yerk thing is looking like a distraction to me.
He sounds honest to me, and I'll only be only voting for him at this point if we agree on policy lynching the death miller

I think he has been fairly open when it comes to answering questions about his role. I don't think his play is scummy, but there is just a lot of objective evidence against him that seems a bit hard to explain away as circumstantial. I feel uncomfortable leaving him alive, and I would probably get more uncomfortable about it as we get deeper into the game.

Also, I think the attention was moved rather sudden to Iece on page 5, away from Zodiark.

Agree with this, Zodiark just vanished from the thread as soon as he started to draw some suspicion. He has not made a case on anyone except for an OMGUS accusation of Glork and is speculating on flavor more than anything else. I'd be willing to switch my vote to him if we decide to wait on Iec until later.

[Kdub]

How is it flimsy? Besides the flavor clearly stating it, did you not take elementary science? What happens when a lightning bolt hits ANYTHING?

That's beside the point, it's flimsy because he's claimed sodding Ramah! It hasn't been contested (and if he's lying... no, the real one shouldn't step forward until it's worth doing so), and thus he's not going to be scum in this game. Thus it's flimsy logic to focus on a good guy.

Ramuh could be a safeclaim. I'm not saying he is scum, but it's pretty weak to assume that someone is telling the truth simply because they claim a character and are not counterclaimed.

[Kdub]

I'm wondering why you were trying to get focus off of Dramonic because he claimed an uncontested character, then when I point out that the claim doesn't necessarily mean anything, you instantly agree. Why even make the argument in the first place then?

[Kdub]

It's like you're saying flavour in one direction is "good" and flavour in another direction is "bad".

But aren't you saying the same thing, just in the opposite sense? You are saying someone is likely town for flavor reasons (they claimed a good guy), then you say other flavor (the lightning thing) is not a good reason to suspect him. That is what I was getting at.

FWIW, I don't really agree with Glork's argument here. We have evidence from the flips of two players that alignment in this game is related to flavor. It's not proof that all characters follow this, but it's more likely than not.

[Kdub]

Eh, jester is probably as likely as a death miller.

I'm afraid I'm gunna have to call V/LA on this game for about a week, cause I'm behind on my read of this game

It's worth pointing out that zodiark has posted elsewhere on site too, in the time that he's been avoiding this thread.

Unvote
Vote: Zodiark13

I'm moving into the camp of those who thinks we should save Iecerint for tomorrow. Zodiark's play has been more suspicious.

[Kdub]

According to a search, Zodiark posted in this thread on the morning of the 13th (his OMGUS accusation of Glork), then posted in other threads that night, the following morning (he even /inned for a new game on the 14th), and at two separate times on the 15th. His next post in this game was yesterday (announcing V/LA) and then he posted in another thread again today.

Let's get some more Zodiark votes. I bet he "returns early" from his V/LA if we get him close to a lynch.

[Kdub]

Zodiark, if you have no time to post in this game, why did you sign up for a new game on the 14th?

[Kdub]

I suspect Iecerint for the Ultros thing, but I don't see Glork as particularly suspicious. Can someone summarize the case on him?

[Kdub]

Sorry I haven't been able to keep up with the game the past few pages. I'll read and post something tonight. I still feel the same as yesterday about Iecerint though. I'm not comfortable with him alive as this game goes on.

[Kdub]

I believe wolf regarding his Tidus claim being a joke. It's a pretty over-the-top claim when you read it. That doesn't make it a smart move since it caused confusion, but I don't think he's scum because of it. I guess we'll find out about his blind status at the next vote count, but if he is blind, that is further evidence of him being town. I'm a little suspicious of people jumping on him for the Tidus thing after he has already discussed it (e.g. dramonic, Chronopie).

Regarding the doom counter (I caught up after Starbuck died), at what point did the first few numbers appear? JP was the first to point them out in 444, but I wonder how long they had been there before he did so. It's very possible that Iecerint, Prana, and/or Glork were running the counter down quickly on purpose with their votes, and if those numbers were showing up while that sequence was going on, it's evidence that at least one of them was scum and not mentioning anything about them while voting/unvoting. I generally feel good about Glork, unsure about Prana at the moment.

I'm going to stick with Iecerint for my vote. He hasn't acted particularly scummy, but he hasn't really acted pro-town either. I get a sense that he is commenting a lot on the setup, but not so much on other players. Add in the Ultros, death miller, and ink stuff and I think I'd like to see him lynched. I just know it's going to bug me more and more the longer he survives in the game.

Vote: Iecerint

[Kdub]

FoS: FC Groningen

His last post feels very much like him trying to "play the field", keeping as many options open as possible so he has an excuse for shifting to other wagons later on.

Still not seeing a good reason to move from Iec at the moment.

[Kdub]

FC:
It was more the way your post was worded that seemed odd to me. It felt like you were trying to hedge your suspicions, waiting to see which wagon was going to take off so you could have an excuse to join any of them.

Icerint voting on both lists is sort of understandable if he really is a "special death miller" since he wants to get any scum killed before himself, even if that means some town die while he waits for that event.

That's not understandable at all because it's a terrible way to play if he really is town. This seems like a weak excuse you are making for him.

[Kdub]

Sure, I'll put you on the replacement list.

[Kdub]

^Ignore that, I was responding to a potential replacement in a game I'm modding and typed in the wrong window.

[Kdub]

Prana, do you think that Glork (or his partners) put blind on him to give him town credit, or do you think a 3rd party or other scum group blinded him?

[Kdub]

Sorry for my lack of posts the past few days. I will try to get something up tonight.

[Kdub]

Antifinity:
Can you elaborate on your vote of Chrono? The only thing I can find regarding your suspicion on him is post 556 regarding his attempt at running down the doom counter, but you say very little about him afterwards. Is that the only reason you suspect him? You have said more about Prana than about Chrono so far (even specifically with regard to his behavior during the doom countdown), so why vote Chrono?

WorseExcuse:
I don't really understand what you mean by "I voted like that because Glork made sense". Glork hasn't been pushing for a Iecerint lynch, so why would his opinion make you vote for Iec?

[Kdub]

I am in favor of more Iecerint votes.

Still waiting for Anti and WE's answers to my questions in 684.

[Kdub]

Devotress:
I agree that if he flips as Mafia Goon, then he is not the ink source. I don't know that I would say he's not likely to be scum though.

Iec, I don't remember if you had answered this before, but are you told anything specific about what your role will be revealed as when you die?

[Kdub]

Devotress:
I wouldn't say the ink thing is the main reason, though it certainly is one of them. Several people (myself included) were suspicious of the Ultros claim even before someone mentioned the connection with the ink thing. I think we should be careful about assuming one way or the other. The main benefit of lynching Iec is that a suspicious player and potential threat is eliminated sooner rather than later. Leaving a claimed death miller and antagonist character alive until a lylo situation is a bad situation.

[Kdub]

I was blinded last night. Using FoS for now sounds like a good plan.

[Kdub]

Regarding the kill flavor, "electrocuted" doesn't fit in with the 4 fiends since none of them are lightning elemental. "Reduced to nothing" (with the wind-elemental flavor text in the mod scene) could be Tiamat, and "drowned" could be Kraken, but dram raises a fair point that it would imply that scum killed their own partner (bv). Maybe some sort of bus driving or redirecting went on? "Electrocuted" is probably either an SK or another scum team (or the 4 fiends aren't the flavor of the scum team).

Glork:
Any reason for singling me out among those who "failed to make an impression" on you?

As I indicated during night, I'm suspicious of how the Anti wagon stalled and got diverted onto Iec, and bv and dram were the main votes who led to that. I don't really get much out of an iso read of bv unfortunately. Bill's point about the music being some sort of roleblock seems reasonable, but then why didn't it happen to anyone on N1?

For now,

FoS: Antifinity

. I'm not sure if my vote will affect the doom countdown, but I won't test it unless people want me to prove my blindness.

[Kdub]

Hey, look who's the first vote on the Iece wagon?
It's you!

Look who's sixth... it's me!

Remind me how I'M the one leading the wagon onto Iec when I voted Anti for like, 9/10th of yesterday?

I can't tell if you just missed my point completely or if you are deliberately trying to twist what I said into something that makes you look better. Either way, the bolded above pretty much reinforces what I was actually saying rather than what you want people to think I said. Care to share your current views on Anti?

[Kdub]

dramonic:
It was hardly a dead wagon, Anti had 5 votes on him at the time you switched to Iec. Regardless, I would like to see Anti flip before I decide on you.

I've never played in a game with a thief before (let alone two of them). Does it function like a role cop, or more like a roleblocker?

[Kdub]

inHim did seem tunnelled on Prana for much of the game, but he ended up switching to Iec. I wonder if he might have investigated Prana during N2 and then backed off because of whatever result he got? Pure speculation, I know, but if he had a "stone cold lock" due to an investigative result, why let up the pressure?

[Kdub]

Glork:
I already said it was just speculation. My opinion on inHim is that if he had some conclusive result on Prana being scum, he would have kept the pressure on during D2 and I stand by that.

Regarding testing my blindness, I'll do whatever the town wants me to do when it comes to voting.

Anti:
Who are your suspects at the moment?

[Kdub]

Anti:
I'll wait to hear your reason for suspecting Chrono, who doesn't seem particularly suspicious to me. Is your suspicion on Prana also a gut feeling, or are there specific actions you find scummy?

Glork:
If you are going to suspect me without presenting a case, I can't really defend myself and try to change your opinion. If you want to ask me questions, go right ahead. Otherwise, I don't see what you are trying to accomplish by claiming suspicion of me but not giving reasons.

Regarding the setup speculation, I mentioned this before, but I'll say it again. Suppose the flavor of bv's scum group is the 4 Fiends (Marilith, Kraken, Tiamat, Lich). We don't know for certain that this is the case, but it's a reasonable assumption. Then the "electrocuted" kill flavor does not come from that scum group because none of the 4 Fiends are lightning elemental. "Reduced to nothing" could very possibly be Tiamat, who is a wind elemental, given that the mod scene mentioned a tornado. "Electrocuted" is probably from an SK or second mafia (not bv's group). "Drowned" seems to fit Kraken quite well, but why was it used on bv (part of the same scum group), and where does doom come from? Doom could fit Lich (don't remember if he actually cast doom in the games where you fight him), but I agree with Glork that a scum group is unlikely to have multiple kills.

---

Vote Count:

Nothing.

Not Voting:

Antifinity
bill1148
Chronopie
Devotress
dramonic
DTMaster
FC Groningen
Glork
JPSalazar
KDub
MehPlusRawr
PranaDevil
thatguy00
wolframnhart

Lynch:

8 votes.

Deadline:

June 1st - 3:00 PM EST

[Kdub]

Anti:
I'll wait to hear your reason for suspecting Chrono, who doesn't seem particularly suspicious to me. Is your suspicion on Prana also a gut feeling, or are there specific actions you find scummy?

Glork:
If you are going to suspect me without presenting a case, I can't really defend myself and try to change your opinion. If you want to ask me questions, go right ahead. Otherwise, I don't see what you are trying to accomplish by claiming suspicion of me but not giving reasons.

Regarding the setup speculation, I mentioned this before, but I'll say it again. Suppose the flavor of bv's scum group is the 4 Fiends (Marilith, Kraken, Tiamat, Lich). We don't know for certain that this is the case, but it's a reasonable assumption. Then the "electrocuted" kill flavor does not come from that scum group because none of the 4 Fiends are lightning elemental. "Reduced to nothing" could very possibly be Tiamat, who is a wind elemental, given that the mod scene mentioned a tornado. "Electrocuted" is probably from an SK or second mafia (not bv's group). "Drowned" seems to fit Kraken quite well, but why was it used on bv (part of the same scum group), and where does doom come from? Doom could fit Lich (don't remember if he actually cast doom in the games where you fight him), but I agree with Glork that a scum group is unlikely to have multiple kills.

[Kdub]

JP's vote was a bad move for reasons already stated, but I'm not sure scum would pull a move like that, especially knowing that there is still room to get a lynch on someone else and still preventing doom from reaching zero.

I'm still keeping my FoS on Anti for purposes of the FoS count, but

minor FoS: thatguy00

. He replaced an already inactive slot, claimed he was catching up, then just follows along with the JP wagon with no analysis of anything else up to this point.

Unoffiical FoS Count:

Antifinity - 3 (bill1148, Kdub, JPSalazar)
JPSalazar - 3 (wolframnhart, Devotress, PranaDevil)
PranaDevil - 2 (MehPlusRawr, Glork)
Kdub - 1 (Dramonic)

[Kdub]

Response to Glork:

Your only valid point against me is about my FoS of Zodiark. Given that it was fairly early in the game, (page 5 I believe), I don't think the fact that I had not said "this is why X is scum" is a big deal. At that point, I was asking Iecerint questions, trying to figure out whether his role was plausible or not. Maybe you don't consider it to be "analysis" (and I guess I agree with you there), but is that not useful for determining his alignment? Zodiark, on the other hand, was just making statements about flavor and not digging into how that flavor might be applicable or asking questions about Iec's role, which is where his flavor analysis would have been most applicable. So yeah, I admit I was not doing analysis of player actions, but I think it's misleading to say "Kdub and Zodiark were not providing analysis, therefore Kdub is a hypocrite" as if our behaviors were exactly comparable.

Key things to remember here:
1) KDub is that magical fourth on a steamroll of a wagon.
2) Weaksauce reasoning provided of "his play has been more suspicious." This kind of wording positively reeks of "I just want to throw down some garbage 'reason' to be on this lynch."
3) After the vote, he piles onto the Zodiark push, repeating the whole "he is posting/joining other games" thing

What is so special about 4th on a wagon? Ignoring the fact that I had indicated suspicion of Zodiark a while before I actually voted him, would you have made the same case if I were the 3rd or 5th vote? And are you saying that Zodiark's active lurking was not a good reason to push a lynch? I maintain that his behavior was grounds for one.

First of all, there were like half a dozen people who "hadn't acted particularly protown" at that point in the game. There were lurkers galore, and Iece was genuinely furthering discussion, which is far more protown than, for example, FC or WorseExcuse.
Secondly, IT'S BURDEN OF PROOF. KDub is basically saying "he must act demonstrably protown, or I will continue to suspect him." This is an absolutely HORRIBLE reason to vote someone, much less revive your past suspicion. KDub's clearly fishing for an alternate angle to get suspicion put onto Iece at this point.

Sorry, but your interpretation here is wrong. I am not saying "he must act demonstrably protown, or I will continue to suspect him". I am saying "he has not acted protown up to this point, and that is one of the reasons I suspect him". I don't see how you get "burden of proof" from what I said.

I will have more on other developments aside from Glork's case on me later today.

[Kdub]

Glork:
Your "common areas" argument is very superficial. Saying that certain positions on a wagon are more likely to be scum ignores a ton of factors that are specific to each wagon, including things like the size of other wagons at the time, the timing of the votes, the relative scumminess of the other players on the wagon, etc. Making a blanket statement that certain positions on a wagon are more likely to be scum is useless unless you look at those factors. As a counterexample to your argument, one of the reasons I am somewhat suspicious of dramonic is his position on the Iec wagon. By itself, it doesn't say much, but along with the fact that he moved off another sizable wagon of another player I suspect and on to Iec at that time, I find it to be convenient timing, especially if Anti is scum. You haven't said anything about why me being 4th on Zodiark is significant in the context of this specific game.

As far as me not going after anyone else for not acting protown, nobody else in my eyes had as much objective evidence against them at the time suggesting that they were scum. Other players may not have been actively protown, but I had no other reason to suspect them so I didn't bring it up because basing a case entirely on that is weak. Your original argument against me is that I voted for him based on burden of proof, when in fact I voted for him because of his claim and flavor, and my opinion that he was not acting protown was really just a comment on his play and secondary to my main reasons. Again, I'm going to tell you that you are misinterpreting my words, but if your opinion is already set on this, I don't know what else to say to you.

Now onto other stuff:

Anti:

I cannot imagine JPs move as anything but some sort of scum gambit to make us run down the Doom counter. I'm guessing someone else is going to "accidently" vote too, for someone else, if they want to kill off Devotress for sure. Just to keep everyone guessing, that second vote will probably be on JP, if they were really lucky, I'd have made that vote for them.

FoS JPSalazar
I'm pretty confident you're scum, but I'm willing to go through the proper process.

Also, my suspicions against Chronopie and Prana are based entirely on their behavior during the first Doom incident. Prana's behavior seems at least somewhat legit, but Chrono tried to run down the counter before almost anyone had a chance to talk, and that just isn't cool.

Uh, if someone else "accidentally" voted and caused Devotress to die because of it, they would pretty much be confirmed scum at that point. There has been more than enough discussion about it that nobody would accidentally vote at this point.

You said earlier that Prana was acting suspicious throughout the game, now it's entirely because of the doom thing? Also, I still don't understand your suspicion of Chrono. If he knew how doom worked and wanted to run the counter down, then he would have known that voting and unvoting several times in a row would do nothing, right? You are basing suspicion of your top suspect on a single post that wouldn't make sense if he were scum.


MehPlusRawr:
You have made exactly four posts in the past two weeks and all you are doing is following along with the cases on me, Prana, and Anti. Can you share your own reasons for those suspicions?

[Kdub]

Meh:
I asked you for your own reasons

why

you find your suspects scummy. Saying that Anti is scummy for calling JP scum and defending Prana doesn't get to the heart of why those actions are suspicions. Citing Glork's reasons for suspecting me are not your own reasons. Finding Prana scummy since yesterday is a statement, not a reason. Try again.

wolf, who do you suspect other than JP? You've been a bit quiet today.

[Kdub]

Glork:
I would say DTMaster, thatguy00, MehPlusRawr, and wolf.

[Kdub]

Still waiting for Anti to respond to 942.

Glork:
I would say DTMaster, his player slot feels more like a regular inactive lurker more than anything else, while the others seem like they are posting just barely enough to not try to draw attention.

[Kdub]

OK I'm caught up.

On DTMaster:
I found his initial posts to be mostly townish. He came across as genuine, and though his vote was hasty and I didn't necessarily agree with him, I didn't find him scummy. However, his second vote on Adumbro is a complete head-scratcher if he is town. He knew by that point why people shouldn't vote, yet he did it anyway? The fact that his vote didn't run down the doom counter does kinda point to him at least not being part of the faction responsible for doom, otherwise his vote was useless and just drew attention to himself.

Also DTM, can you explain what was up with your fake Odin summon? Were you trying to force Prana to claim? This, combined with your recent attempts at messing with the doom countdown is reckless and anti-town.

Anti: what is your opinion of DTMaster?

I'm not moving my FoS until Anti answers this.

We can still get a lynch and save Devotress today, as long as nobody else throws down a vote before we've decided.

Preview edit:
Wow, this game is moving fast today. Good catch Glork, I admit I didn't really see much on the Prana case up to this point, but those posts you linked pretty clearly implies that he is breadcrumbing bulletproof. I would like to hear his response.

[Kdub]

Mod: Prod Anitfinity?

Glork:
Prana looks like an SK at the moment, so I'm not particularly worried about you trying to connect me to him. If he ends up being member of a mafia group, I'll deal with the backlash then.

Prana:
I said DTM was probably not a member of the doom faction because if he was, he should know the mechanics of doom and would know beforehand that his vote on Adumbro would not do anything. Therefore, there was no reason to do it because it would just bring suspicion on himself without accomplishing the goal of bringing Devotress closer to death.

Why did you claim vanilla after DTM faked using Odin when in fact you are not? The fact that you are coming out with this claim only after your contradiction has been pointed out indicates that you are lying.

[Kdub]

Adumbro's vote was the hammer I believe. I guess we just wait for the mod now. If Prana flips as part of a mafia group, Devotress is likely his partner, otherwise he would have just voted to take her down with him to help out his faction. I already mentioned that I don't think DTM is in the group responsible for doom. If Prana is an SK, DTM is probably town since I don't think there would be 2 scum groups + SK in this setup.

My earlier question to Anti about his opinion of DTM still stands, regardless of Prana's flip.

[Kdub]

I was targeted by the brown cloaked music man last night.

Devo, were you told specifically that you were hit with doom again last night, or was it a carry over from yesterday?

Anti:
Well the fact that DTM was killed and flipped town changes things a bit. I was going to point out that your primary motivation for suspecting Prana and Chrono yesterday was their actions regarding the doom counter, so I wanted to see if you were going to be consistent and call out DTM for poking around with his vote yesterday. Since we now know for a fact that he was town, that pretty much negates that line of inquiry.

[Kdub]

I hate that I was ignored yesterday, I did point out that Kjuta's flavor certainly had that possibility.

I don't really like this post. It sounds like you are trying to get town credit that really isn't deserved. Yes, you pointed out that the flavor was possible, but in the same post, you followed that up with:

Not saying that Prana isn't acting ridiculously scummy and shouldn't be lynched ASAP, but just wanted to point it out.

So if you wanted him lynched regardless of the flavor, you can't complain about people ignoring your pointing out the possibility that the flavor was true.

FoS: Adumbro

I feel like I'm back almost to square one regarding Anti. Looking back at his play including today, all of his suspicions appear to be based solely on people running down the doom counter with votes and nothing else. That's poor and incomplete reasoning at best and scummy at worst, but to his credit, he's been extremely consistent in pushing this line of reasoning for all of his suspects.

Anti, now that we know DTM and Prana were town, do you still think Chrono and JP are scummy since you suspected all four of them for basically the same reason?

Chrono, any reason for your HoS?

A lurker hunt sounds like a productive plan. Since directing the vig (assuming it actually is a vig) seems to be all the rage lately, I propose that the vig kill off whoever the most inactive player today is (in terms of content, not just number of posts). If people agree, that ought to force some of the lurkers to start posting.

[Kdub]

I just had a revelation. I was going to respond to Meh, but his comment about the "Music Man" made me go back and check the PM I received during the night. It says that the brown cloaked figure was singing his "Cursed" song. I didn't look into the flavor too carefully when I first read it, but I think I've figured out who the cloaked figured is: Scarmiglione, one of the four fiends from FF4.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Scar ... antasy_IV)
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Curse_(Ability)

The brown cloak fits, and his main attack is "Cursed Elegy", which decreases attack power.

The odd thing is, Scarmiglione is a part of a different four fiends than Marilith. Either the mod decided to mix flavors within a scum team, or there are two scum teams, each being the two groups of four fiends (unlikely since 8 scum is a bit much).

[Kdub]

Meh:
It wasn't meant to be a defense, I was just explaining what Curse does in the game. As for your reason for HoSing me, it's not really something I can defend against since it's entirely speculative and not based on anything I have said or done at all.

Chrono:
When I asked you why you HoSed me, I was trying to find out why you found me suspicious, not just why you chose me over the others. It's been pointed out that you have not previously indicated any suspicion of me, and in fact have indicated quite a bit of suspicion of others who are suddenly on even ground with me on your scumlist.

Your speculation doesn't hold up. If you believe that Kise wouldn't mix flavors and that there is only one scum team, then you must necessarily believe that the one scum team is the original four fiends (given bv's flip). None of those four would fit with the brown cloaked figure responsible for the music, so the cloaked figure can't be a part of the scum team. So if you think that I am scum, your idea about me faking being targeted by the music doesn't work.

Note that I haven't said whether I was roleblocked or not, only that I was hit with the music from the cloaked figure. Revealing whether the PM said I was blocked or not would reveal whether or not I have a night action, which is probably what the scum want me to do.

I am starting to think the "drowned" kill might not be a vig, but is actually Cagnazzo performing the kill for his faction. That would explain bv's death. If "reduced to nothing" is Barbariccia, the lack of a second kill on N2 (due to either blocking or protection) could explain why that group switched to Cagnazzo to perform the kills.

Another thing to consider is that none of the eight fiends (in total) are lightning elemental, so where is "electrocuted" coming from? Balance-wise, 8 scum in a 22 player game seems like a bit much, unless the town has a LOT of power.

[Kdub]

So Kraken killed his own scum team member?

[Kdub]

Chrono:
You still have not answered my question about why you suddenly suspect me even though you haven't said anything about me up to this point in the game.

Anti:
You have not answered my question about your opinion of JP and Chrono.

Adumbro:
I don't have a problem with your original post yesterday about Prana's flavor. I have a problem with your post today complaining about people ignoring you. It doesn't really matter whether the lynch was rushed or whether we had gotten a full FoS count against Prana before lynching. The point is that your post today implies that you felt your comment about Prana's flavor had a chance of averting a mislynch yesterday (otherwise why would you "hate" that you were ignored?), which I do not think is true at all. Again, it looks like you are trying to get town credit after the fact, even though you wanted the lynch to go through "ASAP".

I could get behind a Meh lynch, but I want to think through the setup a bit more. A lot of different ideas are floating through my head, and I'd like to see some more discussion today first.

Mod: Prod wolf and thatguy please

[Kdub]

Not just setup speculation, I still want people to answer questions, plus we need to hear more from a few others. We have plenty of time until the deadline.

[Kdub]

N1 I protected Dramonic
N2 and 3 I protected Glork.

And what about N4? Did you forget we had a night start? I think this is a slip up.

HoS: MehPlusRawr

Also,

FoS: Chrono

for immediately buying the claim despite this obvious flaw and fishing for a counter claim.

Still would like to hear

something

from thatguy and wolf before we lynch.

[Kdub]

GG

My first thought when I realized there was a second scum team was that 8 scum in a 22 player game was too imbalanced against the town. However, having two self-protecting doctors definitely helped them. I thought our team got a bit unlucky with bv's death, since the other scum team could have easily targeted another lurker. Bill and I also guessed wrong on N4, trying to kill off Glork instead of Chrono. We thought Glork was Chrono's scumbuddy at the time for trying to push the vig idea, which would set up Chrono's fake claim. If we had killed Chrono instead, Bill probably wouldn't have had to push as hard the following day and basically reveal himself as Lich to the other team.

The setup was interesting, and the modding was well done. I do have two minor flavor complaints. First, since when has Tiamat been a lightning-elemental? Second, one of my safeclaims (Syldra) turned out to be not so safe since the other team was told that no FF5 characters are in the game. If I had claimed Syldra and been killed off because of it, I would not have been very happy, but luckily it didn't come to that.

Best players in the game were definitely Glork and Bill. Also, Meh's all-day standoff on D4 was awesome. I feel like he deserves a share of the win just for that effort.

Also, I pre-/in for SE Mafia 3 if that's allowed