Square Enix Mafia I: Diabolus Erus (GAME OVER)

[Glork]

Vote: Iecerint

I don't believe Ultros as pro-town.

Wrong. I'd like Iece to confirm that he was being sincere about the Ultros claim. If he was joking, shame on him for making a joke that could have so easily affected vairous night actions. If he was serious, my early guess is that he's probably not gambiting.

Who here has played with Reck and/or Albert?

What does this have to do with anything?

For those who can't/didn't recognize it, Wedge will be Biggs' mason buddy.

In other news, I'd really like Tidus to claim (though I know he probably won't, yet). I have something to give him.

Vote: Dramonic

Dramonic

What ani said
"Ifrit? Is that you? Well, now if Shiva could just be summoned, we'll have the triad loose!"

+

xRECKONERx -

Biggs

(Mason)

- Electrocuted Night 1

+

Something tells me flavour isn't just flavour in this game.

= ScumDram

[Glork]

Actually, I wouldn't have even given it a second thought except you specifically said that flavor probably means something, after basically claiming to be Bahamut. You kind of made your own bed here.


Also, I forgot to mention this in my first post, but somebody inflicted me with the

Blind

status last night, which takes effect as of the start of day. I don't know if this has to do with the anonymous vote on me or not.

[Glork]

EDIT: Bahamut or Odin, depending on what world we're talking about.

[Glork]

Ramuh makes a lot of sense as well. Bahamut probably less so, actually, I think he was only lightning-related in maybe FFTA. Hell, I might be misremembering altogether.



Anyway, the point is...
Dram clearly indicated that he's lightning, after addressing Ifrit and mentioning Shiva.
Somebody died via lightning bolt.
Dram said flavor wasn't just flavor.

[Glork]

One unlucky patron was still asleep in bed when the Inn is

struck down by a bolt of lightning

. One of you closely recognizes the charred body of

xRECKONERx

-- and for good reason.

Emphasis mine, naturally.

[Glork]

Royalblue works for me. Makes it easy to see your posts.

I'd also use it for your votecount edits, so that people are aware that they're YOUR additions. VB did not post that vote count.

[Glork]

I also have a

stonecoldlock

on PranaDevil for scum. Feeble cat is feeble, after all.

vote: PranaDevil

Duly noted.

I want more from Dram before I "move" my vote.

[Glork]

Going to try something.

Unvote
Vote: Prana

Unvote:
Vote: Dramonic

Unvote:
Vote: Prana

Unvote
Vote: Dramonic

....Wondering if the "Miss" in the vote count is me being blind.

[Glork]

Also, I'm going to refer to the flavour again (even though you don't like it) and say electrocuted is in theory logical with Ramuh, however the black tornado really isn't.

Sonofabitch, I think you're right.

And I think I know what killed Reck. I must confirm this... then I just have to figure out WHO killed Reck.

Unvote
Vote: Prana

, content to ride inHim's coattails until I hear more from more people.

---

Vote Count:

MISS, MISS, MISS, MISS, MISS!

PranaDevil: 2

(inHimshallibe, Devotress, Glork)

dramonic: 2

(bv310, FC Groningen)

Glork: 1

Iecerint: 1

(KDub)

killa seven: 1

(Nautilus)

bv310: 1

(wolframnhart)

Not Voting:

Antifinity
bill1148
Chronopie
DarkLightA
dramonic
Iecerint
JPSalazar
killa seven
MehPlusRawr
PranaDevil
WorseExcuse
Zodiark13

Lynch:

11 votes.

Deadline:

May 2nd - 5:40 PM EST

[Glork]

....Wondering if the "Miss" in the vote count is me being blind.

I thought this was obvious once you mentioned you were Blind.

I spent the weekend in Indianapolis and slept for approximately seven hours all weekend. I am allowing myself a case of "missing the obivous."

The test post is to see if "attacking" (voting) enough will eventually get my vote off myself (?) and onto the people I want dead.

[Glork]

After thinking on it, I changed my mind. I don't think I know anything about Reck's killer. I got some characters criss-crossed in my head.

I'm seriously going to stop posting until tomorrow, or until I've had a long nap.

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: Prana

I'm just going to try this every page until I get my vote moved properly. D:

[Glork]

These are the other players I know. I think I'd have pushed for killing Glork if I'd been on a scumteam.

In all fairness, I would, too, except for one thing.

In my experience, Doctors tend to protect the most prominent player in nightstart games. I'd give very strong odds that I was protected last night, and I would also bet that's why the scums stayed away from me.

[Glork]

If you want my opinion, I'd say it was even slightly scummy.

Explain please.

I'll answer this on inHim's behalf.

You've decided to show off your FF knowledge and have done

approximately

exactly zero scumhunting.

[Glork]

Yes. We have had a night full of actions, and there have already been three full pages of discussion, including multiple non-random, non-arbitrary accusations thrown around. I find it hard to believe that you don't have an opinion on anybody.

Unvote
Vote: Zodiark

[Glork]

@glork, was there any flavour to you being told you were blind, or was it just a basic "you've been made blind"

Yeah, something about black goop being thrown into my face.

@ Glork

Is the "Blind" status connected in any way to the anonymous lynch vote on you?

Read what I've already posted and decide that for yourself. I've already covered what I know about Blind, what I think about Blind, and what I think about the anonymous vote on me.

Plus, looking back over it, I'm thinking Glork was possibly stretching to the case on Dramonic by piecing it together as he did and ignoring that anyone else could be lightning based, and I'd say he was most likely covering for either himself, or someone else, on the basis of knowing there's more than the one lightning based character (or at least, more than one character who can use a lightning attack), and spotting Dram's claim early on, has seized it.

unvote; vote: Glork

Two things:
1) Page 1 vote.
2) As soon as Dram pointed out the whole "black tornado" thing, I backed off the flavor connection.

Please reassess your vote and place it somewhere notstupid and nothypocritical. Kthx.

[Glork]

By the way, I still want Tidus to claim. I promise that only good things will happen.

[Glork]

Black goop?

Like an ink attack from a squid? or octopus?

Why, yes. That would work. And, in fact, Ultros countered magical attacks by inflicting Blind.

You know what... I'm game.

Unvote
Vote: Iece

[Glork]

There's even a wikia article on fighting Uncle Ulty:
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Ultr ... tasy_VI%29

[Glork]

I also take it that's Glork admitting to using an ability on Iecerint over the night phase, so it's worth keeping this in mind if Iec gets lynched).

To clarify, I did not target Iece with any abilities. I was merely remarking on Ultros' behavior in the GBA version of FFVI.

[Glork]

In FFVI, Ultros really wasn't associated with the plot or main villains or anything. He was just kind of another guy you fought.

I could see it as a really gutsy, early claim by an SK. I don't know if the person who targeted me knows what was going to happen, or if there would be associated flavor, but the black sludge flavor fits well enough with Ultros that I think I'm willing to take this chance.

Mostly, I want to see if Iece. It'll be interesting to see if he denies knowledge of my Blinding altogether, or if he goes "oh yeah, I have some abilities, too."

[Glork]

That said, I'd rather try and hit another scum before Icerint if possible, because frankly, incase he's telling the truth about his death miller role It'd make analysing people's interactions in this game alot easier if we managed to hit another scum before him so we know for sure if Icerint is really scum.

Part of me understands where you're coming from, but I am, and always have been, of the opinion that if you think you've found scum, you should want them dead immediately.

Iece reiterated his vanillaness, and yet you seem to be willing to give him another chance to change his story. Do you believe right now that he is vanilla? If he were to say "okay, I have other abilities," would you believe him to be protown?

Seems to me you're trying very hard to allow him to back himself out of a corner.

[Glork]

EBWOP: Also, Iece should answer Dram.

[Glork]

Okay, the point I'm trying to get at is this.

If you think he is scum, it shouldn't matter when we lynch him.
If you don't think he is scum, then you shouldn't want him dead at any point.

There are NO grounds for "let's wait a day" or "let's wait until a scum flips" or anything like that. If you are confident enough to want to lynch him on D2 or D3 or whatever, then you should be confident enough to want him lynched NOW.

Frankly, the idea of someone who can make someone not have a vote and put us in lylo sooner is very scary and I do want to lynch him, but I'd still rather here the full description of what blind does. It could be something confirmable for all we know..

That doesn't answer my question.

Do you believe Iece is protown?

[Glork]

Do you think there is a protown rationale for being able to use Ink and not telling anyone about it?

Do you think there is a protown rationale for using that ability on N1 of a night-start game?

[Glork]

Whoops, I misread that.

Sorry, I'm dumb.

[Glork]

Whoops, I misread that, Devotress.

Sorry, I'm dumb.

[Glork]

Ok, reading/posting from m. Phone now because my ISP is balls. But yas, Iece, I'm done.

[Glork]

Two quick notes on the flavor.
While I didn't see Ivalice on the list of worlds, have "mysterious black gook" shot in your face is the generic animation for being hit by the Oil spell in Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced, so that may be relevant.

While I appreciate that you're thinking through this, the PM I recieved very clearly indicated that the black goop was the cause of my blindness. I don't suspect any underhanded modding here.

Generic death miller question. Has anyone ever used Death Millers in a two mafia game? How is there reveal usually handled if so?
I'm kind of wondering if the existance of a death miller in itself would confirm there being only one mafia faction.

No idea, honestly. But it actually brings up something else I never thought about.


I've

NEVER

seen a Death Miller outside of an advertised Bastard game. And now that I think on it, I'm pretty sure sitewide meta relegates the role to "Bastard" status. This was not advertised as a Bastard game as far as I can tell. Can anybody point out non-bastard games (preferrably within the last 6-8 months or so) which included Death Millers?

[Glork]

The black ink flavor bit, or even the Blind status could, in theory, be a cover for some other ability. It is a logical enough explanation, and knowing that Ultros is a Death Miller (especially one that only works early on) makes him an excellent target for a Day 1 lynch from the scum perspective.

Further, if we go on the Ultros=SK angle, and the scum are aware of that, or at least guess it, then it furthers their goals even more to get him lynched, since that way he doesn't even get a single night shot (inking?) against them.

FoS: Glork

I'm not saying I trust Ultros, but Glork certainly could have a strong Mafia angle, and being unable to vote, and/or having an extra vote on him, could be a counter balance to some other powerful action, such as being a Godfather, or having some sort of extra night action.

Not gonna lie, at some point I expected somebody to go "Glork being Blind is a cover for something," but that doesn't make the notion any less silly. Sure, being Blind has no bearing on how likely I am to be protown. All it means is that a player targeted me with an anti-town ability. There could very well be multiple scumgroups....


But to me it seems that you're insinuating that I'm Blind of my own right, and that it counteracts a powerful scum ability. There are a few reasons that this is downright stupid.
1) If I were making up the Blind thing specifically for the purpose of framing Ultros, don't you think I would have said "Blahblah, I'm blind, blahblah, Ink, blahblah, Ultros, blahblah, lynch him"

RIGHT FROM THE START OF THE DAY

? Instead it took

somebody else directly asking me about Blindness flavor for me to even make that connection

. This indicates that there was NO malicious intent in my "black goop" explanation.
2) Even if Blindness were to offset another ability -- something for which there is ZERO evidence -- how does that necessarily make it a

scum

ability?

You're reaching awfully far for even a mere FoS.

It is the only logical way to handle a miller of any kind in a two mafia game. The fact that Icerint brought up this requirment before we suspected there would be two mafias probably means that he is either telling the truth, or had some way of knowing that there are two factions.

Generally if you're in a mafia with VERY FEW PLAYERS, you can pretty much conclude that there's a second scumgroup out there. Also, if Ultros does happen to be an SK (less likely but still possible, IMO), you'd know for a fact that there are multiple scumgroups. So if he's not telling the truth, then yes -- he very likely knew that there were multiple scumgroups.

Thus my analysis is that we might be better served going after someone more suspicious, such as Glork, who I don't really believe about the Blind status. It especially seems odd to me that he only brought up such a suspicious detail after he first claimed to be under the effect.

Is the "Blindness" thing the only reason you find me suspicious?

[Glork]

Devo, do you think I'm mafiascum, SKscum, or any of the above?

For what it's worth, I was well aware that Ultros uses Blind when you fight him. You can be pretty sure of that because my N0 post includes some quotes from the Ultros fight. Consequently, I wouldn't have used Blind having claimed Ultros unless I were forced to (i.e. must use Blind to perform your kill, or something similar), in which case I wouldn't have claimed Ultros, anyway. [/WIFOM]

What happens if you weren't aware that your target would be sent associated flavor?

I could feasibly see you making a fake Death Miller claim without knowing I would be sent anything, and then going "ohshit" when I claimed the goop/Blindness flavor.

[Glork]

How is it flimsy? Besides the flavor clearly stating it, did you not take elementary science? What happens when a lightning bolt hits ANYTHING?

That's beside the point, it's flimsy because he's claimed sodding Ramah! It hasn't been contested (and if he's lying... no, the real one shouldn't step forward until it's worth doing so), and thus he's not going to be scum in this game. Thus it's flimsy logic to focus on a good guy.

Robo was scum in Chrono Trigger Mafia.

Why exactly should "Ramuh is a freaking good guy" mean anything?

[Glork]

No, flavour should NOT be discounted, because it can lead us to which players took anti-town decisions.

I'd give a greater than 90% chance that both N1 kills were from scum. It is equally likely that whomever blinded me is not protown. Using flavor can help us determine WHO IS MOST LIKELY TO BE SCUM. That's the whole POINT of this type of flavor discussion, so you can't just say it's useless.



You're so full of shit, it's not even funny.

[Glork]

Ramah is most likely to be good, any denying on that? No? Good. Therefore it's logical to consider that Ramah is unlikely to be on the mafia side... thus it's going to be completely bloody stupid to push a lynch on a guy who's claimed Ramah "'cuz Ramah is lightning n stuffs".

So yes, the logic in lynching a guy who claimed Ramah is flimsy until more information is gotten.

You were the one who went "he claimed sodding Ramuh" and "he hasn't been counterclaimed" and "don't waste your time on a claimed 'good guy.'"

I'm the one who's saying "goodguy/badguy from the video games means nothing, but we can use flavor connections in the mafia game to figure out who is likely to be scum."



I'm going to state this as clearly as I possibly can, because if you are protown, you need to understand it as soon as humanly possible.

The good/bad nature of ANY character from the video games has

NOTHING

to do with their alignment in this game. The only use for flavor is to figure out who committed what actions, or who may be lying about their own actions.

[Glork]

Ramah is most likely to be good, any denying on that? No? Good. Therefore it's logical to consider that Ramah is unlikely to be on the mafia side... thus it's going to be completely bloody stupid to push a lynch on a guy who's claimed Ramah "'cuz Ramah is lightning n stuffs".

So yes, the logic in lynching a guy who claimed Ramah is flimsy until more information is gotten.

No, you were the one who went "he claimed sodding Ramuh" and "he hasn't been counterclaimed" and "don't waste your time on a claimed 'good guy.'"

I'm the one who's saying "goodguy/badguy from the video games means nothing, but we can use flavor connections in the mafia game to figure out who is likely to be scum."



I'm going to state this as clearly as I possibly can, because if you are protown, you need to understand it as soon as humanly possible.

The good/bad nature of ANY character from the video games has

NOTHING

to do with their alignment in this game. The only use for flavor is to figure out who committed what actions, or who may be lying about their own actions.

[Glork]

The good/bad nature of ANY character from the video games has

NOTHING

to do with their alignment in this game. The only use for flavor is to figure out who committed what actions, or who may be lying about their own actions.

I don't disagree with you in principle, but you're overstating it a little. Namely, it's not impossible that scum lack fakeclaims in a mini where the number of potentials roles are as large as this, and pro-town roles in-game tend on average to map onto pro-town on MS (high profile exception like HP mafia sort-of notwithstanding).

I guess I draw different lines when it comes to flavor discussions. I've seen more than enough games go both ways that I never head into a game with premonitions that "good = protown" (or otherwise, for that matter). Even if site meta says "good guys tend to be protown," I feel that each game is independent of the last. I don't think a sitewide meta applies to this particular issue, but we may have to agree to disagree.

[Glork]

Someone mentioned Exdeath, which makes enough sense to me. I haven't played Dissidia Final Fantasy, so I'm willing to sit and listen.

[Glork]

Is there any intelligent reason to not lynch a jester? WCS he wins and the game goes on. boo-hoo-hoo

It's widely considered to be a waste of a day.

I am disinclined to believe in the existence of a Jester in the game, but I have no substantial reasoning behind it.

I could support an Antifinity wagon. Still don't like his "attack" on me.

Also, Ani's mass FoS of essentially everybody is terribad. Name names if you think people are suspicions, but don't hide behind "FOS SETUP SPECULATORS." That adds nothing of value to the discussion.

[Glork]

Zodiarkwagon is :goodposting:... let's make the fucker claim when he gets back.


Still like Iece and Antifinity as alternates, but I'm digging this wagon.

[Glork]

If the mod would co-operate, we could element massclaim and verify.

ofc it would require frequent vote counts.

I would staunchly refuse to cooperate with any potential element massclaim. I think it gives away entirely too much information right now.


Let's just say that L-2 is the new L-1 and make sure people claim at that.

---

Vote Count:

Zodiark13: 9

(Devotress, FC Groningen, PranaDevil, KDub, Chronopie, Iecerint, bv310, Antifinity, wolframnhart)

Iecerint: 3

(Glork, MehPlusRawr, dramonic, JPSalazar)

PranaDevil: 3

(inHimshallibe, Starbuck, Nautilus)

Chronopie: 1

(WorseExcuse)

Glork: 1

Not Voting:

bill1148
killa seven
Zodiark13

Lynch:

11 votes.

Deadline:

May 2nd - 5:40 PM EST

[Glork]

I would staunchly refuse to cooperate with any potential element massclaim. I think it gives away entirely too much information right now.

Let's just say that L-2 is the new L-1 and make sure people claim at that.

Why'd you want me to claim my element earlier, then?

Don't ask stupid questions.

[Glork]

Apparently I missed some serious shit going down.


Prana or Antifinity should be vigged and/or crosskilled tonight.
Undecided on Iece, still REALLY NOT THRILLED about the Blinding thing.

There are definitely a couple of very opportunistic scums on the Zodiark lynch if he turns out to be protown. Dram's behavior post-hammer doesn't sit well with me. It's like he knows he did bad, but is making light of it ("at least when he flips scum, Iece won't be a death miller!").

inHim has a slightly above average chance of being scum, based on a personal tell I have no desire to divulge at this time.

[Glork]

Can someone summarize the case on him?

No. Nobody can, because nobody actually has anything on me. Prana and Anti decided they thought I was scummy, but when I pressed about it, what little they had fell to pieces. Then you have people like Chronopie, who are either sheepy sheepy sheepsheep towns, or sheepy sheepy sheepsheep scums, and will "suspect" anybody whose name has come up a bunch, even without knowing what the fuck is going on.

THE CHRONOPIE CHALLENGE:
Explain, in at least 100 but less than 200 words, why Glork is one of your top supsects.

I be there are tons of scum bunched up in that list. My only town reads there right now are Devo, Groni, and Yerk.

Who is Yerk? Not everyone is familiar with who is in what hydras, so please use names of people

in this game

. This is becoming more and more a pet peeve of mine. People use nicknames, alternate names, real account names from hydras, etc., and it gets confusing for unfamiliar colleagues.[/rant]


Finally, officially re-add Dram to my list of top suspects. He continues to vocalize his rationalization for hammer, which spells a guilty conscience.

[Glork]

If your favorite scum are P and AI, why did you spend all day voting me? Was I promoted to undecided because of anything specific, or...?

Once I missed like a dozen times in a row, I pretty much stopped trying to move my vote. In retrospect, I suppose I could have moved it for the lazy people who "reread" vote counts but not the actual thread, but there are plenty of paper trails in the words I write.



Also, to answer your dumb question from earlier, your case was different because I actively highly suspected you, and "Iece should claim his element" is completely and utterly different from "the entire town should massclaim their elements." Like I said. Don't ask dumb questions.

[Glork]

Unvote
Vote: Prana

FoS: Antifinity

....for Iece. <3

[Glork]

No word on my status today. I just shot the mod a PM asking if I'm still blind or not. Could see it going either way (status ends at end of battle, or I require eyedrops to be unblinded).

Vote: Antifnity

His points against me were:
That me being blind D1 makes me scum with a powerful ability: Something for which there was (and is) ZERO evidence.
That I OMGUSed two people so that I could kill them so that the town can't use their suspicions against me. I don't even know what this fucking means, but I'm pretty sure it's horseshit.

Prana is still an excellent alternate, especially after the "interesting only one person died" comment.

Re: Flavor

7.5

FLAVOR:

The references I use (characters, locations, items)

may or may not

have relevance or relation to the roles you all have received. In the interest of a flavorful story, I will use any reference I see fitting at the time but it does not (always) indicate anything about the players. I will be writing with characters not even used for roles in this current game, as well as characters you (the players) mention. Characters

may appear in future games

as legit roles, but, in the meantime, I will create scenes for mere enjoyment rather than depending on the relation to your individual roles.

Flavor has no correlation to in-game mechanics, alignments, characters, or players. Kise added that disclaimer as of the lynch scene yesterday, so appearances by Ramuh and Ifrit should hold no weight.


@Grong: My suspicion of Iece had been wavering, but like I said, having been blind, I didn't care enough to move my "nonvote." Once I saw the VC and that Zodiark hadn't been lynched, I moved specifically because Iece had asked me about my vote.

Also, whoever the ??? from QT is, you're a fucking moron. Of course Tidus is scum. One of his claimed JOAT abiltiies is a Framer. I was hoping they didn't notice that complete blunder and trying to get Tidus to come out and claim, so that we'd get an easy lynch. But now Tidus is NEVER going to claim. So not only did you waste a name-investigation (if that's what you have), but you also ruined any chances of catching Tidus based on his player claiming to be Tidus.

9

[Glork]

Wait, someone claimed that Prana is Tidus? Where?

This is damning evidence if true.

[Glork]

No, I think ??? was just stating that Tidus is evil. I'd put 99% that he's a Mafia JOAT.

Unvote, Vote: Prana

Lynch the scums now. Now now now.

7

[Glork]

EBWOP: No, Chrono is speculating. I think he was assuming that Prana could use Tidus's commuter or hider ability or something.

[Glork]

For easier reference, here is the Tidus claim:

A blitzball comes out of no where, hitting the Giant crazy Octopus in his spongebobs and felling the monstrosity!

A blonde cry baby walks into the room, a pacifier in his mouth, a diaper around his waist, and a sign that says "daddy didn't love me" around his neck.

Mumbling around his pacifier he says "I am Tidus! I am the biggest crybaby any of my friends have ever met, but in reality I am a JOAT who's powers are as follows:
1)Kick a person in the nuts with my blitzball, knocking that person out for the night which renders any powers they tried to use useless.
2)Annoy people for hours with my constant complaining so they leave me alone (one shot bulletproof)
3)Swim around for hours underwater and apparently never need to take a breath (commuter)
4)Make people believe I am a hero (when really I'm not) aka framer
5)Live in the shadow of my father (hider)
6)Protect a hot girl and never get any from her (bodyguard)

Fear me and my giant tears of failure in my fathers eyes!!!"

[Glork]

Meh, Prana's obvious scummitude plus his "I dare the scums to kill me" is enough. That's like three "you can't target me to die" abilities from Tidus, who is obviously in the game and is obviously a Scum JOAT.


Antifnity needs to be Vigged and/or Crosskilled tonight.

[Glork]

Heh. Valid point on the Prana/CB posts.

[Glork]

Meh.

Unvote, Vote: Antifinity

HOUSE OF PANCAKES.

5

[Glork]

I think "Crybaby" is a flavorful alias for the fact that Tidus is a whiny little bitchface.

[Glork]

If I felt that any potential actions by me would have led to our (very likely anti-town) Blinder, I would have claimed as such.

[Glork]

FoS: Iece

again. The whole "if you want to claim one of those three things" thing bothers me.

Rosa is a white mage from FFIV, which can reasonably be linked to a protective role
??? is obviously an investigative role
There's a decent chance that Ifrit is protown.

Even if ALL THREE of those people were in your list of "potential scumTidus," you're basically asking for 1-3 power role claims in order to reduce the TidusList to,

AT BEST

, five players.



NOBODY should say they are one of the three, and your suggestion that anybody do so is very clearly against the town's best interests.

[Glork]

and @Glork: Nope, never played w/ you before. If prana and anti are scum, they don't need to be x-killed, we just lynch 'em.

Crosskills ALWAYS benefit the town. They benefit the scumgroup doing the killing, too, but they are enormously helpful to the town. Would you rather spend two days lynching scums, or have two scums crosskilled for free?

[Glork]

Long day, just catching up now.

First, I'm blind, thanks for whoever did that crap to me ><

Second, I am the one posting as "crybaby" in the QT, i did it as a joke the first night, the second night i didn't even know what to say, but looking back i probably should have dropped the gag and posted something of relevance.

Unvote, Vote: Wolframhart

Scum. Scum scum scum scum scum scum scum scum. There is

NO SUCH THING AS A PROTOWN FRAMER ABILITY

. You are scum scum scum scum scummity scum scum. die die suck die suck kill die die die die die die die die die die.

[Glork]

EBWOP: Yes, FC, I said that only good things would happen. Did you expect me to coax a claim out of Tidus by saying "Hey, if you claim, I'm going to get you lynched because I know that you are scum"? I was hoping that if Tidus was dumb enough to blatantly state in the QuickTopic that he is anti-town, that he'd be dumb enough to believe some cock-and-bull story about me having to give him something, and he'd out and claim.

[Glork]

Dram, it's not like we weren't going to vote at all today, just to hopefully keep Starbuck from getting doomed. I treat the Doom as a slightly delayed nightkill.

[Glork]

@Glork
Like I said, the entire post was a joke post, I have no abilities at all, but if you wish to vote me and over exaggerate it then hey, have fun.

So you're saying you're not Tidus at all, then? What on earth would possess you to say that you were?

[Glork]

The thing that frustrates me is that, no matter what situation:
Protown Tidus
Protown not-Tidus
Scum Tidus
Scum not-Tidus

There is ZERO rationale for acting like Tidus is in the game, or that he's a JOAT, or that one of his abilities is

strictly anti-town

. I just don't effing get it.

[Glork]

Actually, that's not really true. There is a slight rationale if he's scum, which I guess is why I'm leaving my vote on him for now.

[Glork]

I find it amusing that suddenly, Tidus is a joke and he gets ink in his eyes. What GREAT timing, you know?

If I weren't voting Iece for no adequately explored reason I'd vote you. But I'll wait for the countdoom to resolve.

Potentially dumb question, but who is "you" in this case?

[Glork]

Not gonna lie, I'm not getting what you're trying to say.

I don't like Wolf's crybaby/Tidus/joke thing. The "great coincidence" would be on his end, not mine.

[Glork]

Blindness would've happened to Wolf overnight, champ, like it did to me. It didn't happen "the moment he became suspicious."

Wolf just happened to claim Tidus and Blinded in the same post.

[Glork]

Fun fact: Even though Wolf is blind, he didn't start the day out with a vote on him.


I wonder if this means I was targeted with TWO abilities N1. Seems reasonably likely.

[Glork]

Blindness would've happened to Wolf overnight, champ, like it did to me. It didn't happen "the moment he became suspicious."

Wolf just happened to claim Tidus and Blinded in the same post.

I know. What I'm saying is now that he's garnered suspicion, he claims to have been blind, which would divert the suspiciousness to Iece.

Wolf, vote NOW.

Then why would you be voting for me, if not Iece?

I don't know if it's just because I'm tired today, but I'm confused as balls.

[Glork]

I'm actually genuinely willing to believe that Dram got everyone really fucking confused by accident.

This entire page is kind of amusing to read, though.


IMO, Anti or Wolf needs to die today. Prana's still on my list, though the other two are higher priorities. Still want to hear from Wolf.

[Glork]

Iece makes a pretty solid point about Prana's "they tried to kill me" comment.

First of all, town challenging scum to kill them VERY RARELY results in the scums targeting them, so there is virutally zero benefit to Prana claiming this as town.

Secondly, and somewhat related to Iece's point, I don't think it's either safe or reasonable to make assumptions based on lack of kills. While I'm not entirely sure that I agree with Iece's "you knew something happened not-to-you," I think you were a little too eager to pass off the lack of a second immediate death to your own role, as though you're trying to force confirmation upon us.

[Glork]

Lastly, I find it very strange that a power would only manifest on the second day, so it seems much more likely that one of the scum has a JOAT of status debuffs, perhaps a Black Mage or a Malborro (which would mean which debuff is added may well be random) In this case, a comprehensive review of all the known debuffs would be very useful for the town, and it casts suspicion on those who continually cry for all flavor discussion to be shot down.

Personally, I just think it means that different members of the same scumgroup made the kill.

But as of right now, there's really no way of knowing for sure.

Unvote

I'm going to go back and reread all of D1, and D2 so far, to see if I can't decide where I want my vote to stay. I don't feel like I have a good grasp on this game at all, which is even more frustrating considering how obscenely well I've been playing mafia in the last month and a half or so.

[Glork]

FYI, Chrono isn't scum.


BV's post is terribad for a bunch of reasons that I might get into later.

[Glork]

Unvote
Vote: Antifinity

Not the reaction I thought I'd get, but classic nonetheless.

[Glork]

Antifinity with an absolutely killer attempt at role fishing there. Unfortunately there's no bites.

unvote; vote: Antifinity

.....and now I want to vote for Prana again.

[Glork]

This Antifinity wagon is hella scummy. I think I'll go back to Prana. [/yetanotherflipflop]

Unvote
Vote: Prana

[Glork]

EBWOP: Chrono has committed a very distinct town tell. It has nothing to do with investigations or anything like that. I simply have a very strong protown read on him.


I also think it's beyond ridiculous that Chrono is getting flak for being "wagony," when Prana, Anti, and Dram have been AT LEAST as bad. Clearly there is some scum favoritism among this group.

[Glork]

Glork, why'd you go from being against Anti, Prana, and Chrono to only going against Prana?

I've been pro-Chrono since the start of the day. It has to do with the post he made overnight.

Anti may or may not be scum, but that super-quick wagon is DEFINITELY riddled with opportunistic scumvotes. I'd say at least two people on Devotress' list are scum, and Prana's easily the best bet out of those seven.

[Glork]

EBWOP: The other reason I'm giving Anti a little bit of leeway is that he has repeatedly shown that while his analysis is on a basic level, he's putting in the effort. His operating model is simplistic, but it's consistent and even reasonably logical. That inherently makes him a worse lynch target than some of the repeated shameless wagoners.

[Glork]

EBWOP Again: Devotress, you left Dram off of your list of Antifinity-wagonhoppers.

[Glork]

Thanks for the IIoA, Anti...

...as opposed to the "analysis" you've provided all game?

Hey Kettle, the Pot called. You're black!

[Glork]

It annoys me that PranaScum isn't dead yet.

[Glork]

When did I

EVER

even imply that having been Blind makes me protown? I'm pretty sure I even said it has ZERO bearing on my alignment.


Now Prana's just making shit up.

[Glork]

I also don't remember you saying that, but you know, or should know, that it makes you 'seem' pro-town to be affected by an anti-town ability.

That would make some sense if I hadn't

EXPLICITLY SAID

that it has no effect on me:

Sure, being Blind has no bearing on how likely I am to be protown.

You CANNOT say that I'm trying to make myself seem protown when I explicitly say I should not seem protown. It's complete and utter horse shit.

I also don't understand how on earth anybody can say "he's been cleared as being scum and is riding that" when no less than three people have voted me, and at least ine (Chrono overnight) FoS'd me.

@Bill: I was only told about the black goo in my eyes and being blind. My posts from D1 make it very clear that I had no clue whether or not the anonvote was related.

[Glork]

Also, I'd say that the odds of a scum removing my vote D1 were astronomically more than 1/21.

I'm going to allow myself to be cocky for a few minutes here and state that in any general mafia game, my vote holds more weight than just about any other person on the site. It's no secret that I'm one of the best scumhunters this site has ever seen, and when I talk, people listen to me. I'm forceful, I'm aggressive, I'm more accurate than most, and I am convincing.
I FIRMLY believe that the Blinder (and/or his scumgroup) decided that I was likely to be protected N1, so rather than killing me, they did the next best thing. They neutralized my vote. I have zero doubt in my mind that whoever the Blinder is, they are scum, and that they wanted to try to keep me out of the game as much as possible.

I had also considered the possibility that I was protected last night, and that the same group tried to kill me and blind somebody else, but the whole Doom thing kindof debunks that. It's still a possiblity if our Doomer is a vigilante, though I have no idea why they'd have targeted Starbuck.


Also, re: Iece. Your use of Burden of Proficieny has been noted. I still haven't forgotten that Death Millers are almost exclusively used in Bastard-Modded games, and that this was not advertised as a Bastard-Modded game.

[Glork]

Prana, to sum up why I feel you're a decent scum candidate:
-- You had that terrible and hypocritical attack on me early D1 (Post 108),
-- You've been quite wagonly. Iece wagon, Zodiark wagon, Antifinity wagon... really every significant pile of votes we've had, you've been a part of
-- Also guilty of Burden of Proficiency towards me ("you've done a lot of talking, but haven't gotten us far")

What pushed my vote back to you was your timing/positioning on the Antifinity wagon, combined with my earlier sentiments towards you.




On a completely different note, I feel like we're in a bit of a rut here. The following people need to contribute significantly more:
MehPlusRawr
JP Salazar
inHim
bv

I'd like to highlight BV a little, actually, as his most recent post was pretty horrible. There's was a ton going on when he decided to "check in" -- the Wolf/Tidus thing, Prana votes, there was plenty to comment about the Zodiark wagon at the end of yesterday... but he just kinda dumps a wagon vote on Chrono, says peace out, and hasn't posted since then. It's opportunistic, it's :nothelpful: at best, it's selective, and it highlights BV's presence in this game as a whole. There's a very decent chance that BV is lurkish scum just kinda skating by. He was also 7th on the Zodiark wagon D1, which is right in that range from it being "legit wagon" to "probable lynch."

[Glork]

EBWOP: Add WorseExcuse to the list of people who need to post more.

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: BV{/b]

[Glork]

.....

Unvote, Vote: BV

[Glork]

Questions for Ani:
Which three players are most likely to be scum, right now?

[Glork]

Who else might be scum? What specifically do you want Prana to answer for?


I am not moved by your posts at all. You complain that the game is dragging, yet you do NOTHING to help move it. Ask direct questions to people if you want to hear them talk. But don't sit on the sidelines, say "this is going nowhere," and then do NOTHING to help it move.

[Glork]

JP: I don't want this discussion to become a distraction, so this is the only post I'm going to make about activity monitoring.

Your position on who should keep the game moving is completely and utterly wrong.

It is the mod's job to make sure that the players make posts according to the game's posting requirements. But it is the players' job to make sure that their colleagues post content which actually progresses the game towards a lynch.

You complain that the game is stagnant, yet I haven't seen you try to convince another player to give his own thoughts on who might be scum. I haven't seen you ask any direct questions to enable yourself to read another player. I have yet to see you try to convince other specific people why they should lynch Prana. Your approach to the game has been very passive, so when I see you complain about the game's pace, I can't help but wonder why you're not doing

everything within your power

to help the town, as a collective, arrive at a lynch. That's something I generally try to do when I'm protown. Heck, nowadays it seems that's what you have to do even when you're scum. So when I made a point against you about sitting on the sidelines, it's because there was something fairly substantial that I saw in your posting habits which made me say, "Wait a minute. Why is this guy telling us to pick it up without hardly offering any material with which to work?"

[/end rant]



Now then. Questions for you, JP:
What do you think about BV?
If Prana flips scum, who do you think is most likely to be a scumbuddy of his?
Aside from Prana, who do you think are the two scummiest players in the game?





And to respond to your issues with my posts:

89 and 92 were me pointing out that Zodiark isn't looking for scum, but flaunting his knowledge of the Final Fantasy universe. It was mere analysis of another player's efforts to find scum (or in this case, a general lack thereof). It's actually the same thing I'm getting irritated with you over. There was a TON of stuff to talk about, but Zodiark wasn't really putting any effort into finding scum, which was scummy.

In 218, I was pointing out why, logically speaking, Antifnity's reasons for suspecting me didn't make sense. He insinuated that I was using the Blindness to frame Ultros when my start-of-day behavior very clearly indicates that I was just generally confuse. Somebody else had to point out to ME that the flavor fit with Ultros, so Anti's argument held no water.

I'm not sure how you found those posts condescending. It's pretty much just how I've always played, and there was a very clear, game-related reason for me making each of those posts. I don't generally try to talk down to people, because that's not really who I am.

[Glork]

Mehhhh, I'm not nearly as thrilled about an Antifnity lynch as I used to be, but I could tentatively support one. This game is dragging hardcore.


Also, I was unexpectedly on V/LA this past weekend. Sorry I didn't post about it.

[Glork]

Unvote
Vote: Iece

After glancing at some stuff and reading over his claim, posts, and my flavor, I've changed my mind. I definitely think that Iece is gambiting scum.

1) The afore-mentioned (and overly complicated) Death Miller claim. The roles thus far have been very standard, and all game I haven't been able to work my head around the notion that Kise would put a Death Miller in this game. It doesn't fit with any other known role information in the game. The

ONLY

unique mechanic we have evidence of is the notion of elements, which is neither crazy nor bastardly enough to warrant acceptance of a "temporary Death Miller until a 'real' scum is killed" type of unorthodox roleclaim.
1b) The claim also has two very common built-in scum provisions. The first is "don't investigate me," because he claims he will show up innocent. There's a pretty good chance that if we have a Cop, they didn't investigate him because the Cop felt it would be a waste of time. The second provision is "don't kill me yet," which has been a known tactic in scum behavior for years.

2) The Ink flavor. I believe that Iece didn't know that his blinded targets would be sent flavor about being blinded. But the black goo (which wolfram can confirm is legit flavor) fits PERFECTLY with being inked by Ultros' Ink attack. I think Iece probably flipped a shit when I said there was associated flavor, and I'm not really sure how I allowed him to weasel his way out of suspicion on this yesterday. Looking back on it, I think it was just poor attentiveness on my own part.

3) I'm also going to meta the decision to blind me overnight and wager that Iece is one of only very small handful of remaining players who would go with neutralizing my vote N1 in lieu of attempting to kill me.

4) Ultros/Orthros' status as a recurring antagonist. The protown flavor is very clearly described as being "Protagonist." Ultros is everything but, on a number of occasions. He is not a

main

villain, but few of the dead protown people are

main

protagonists. But there is no denying that EVERY aspect of Ultros' character is evil. His post-apocalypse flavor isn't enough to sway me from his obvious antagonist-status, combined with the nature of his claim in relation to that of the rest of the known roles, and the connected black-sludge/Ink flavor.



I want Iece dead TODAY. And I'll take any suspicion it generates over having him die as an "unconfirmed" scum because now that I think about it,

we can confirm whether he was the inker or not

. If nobody else gets inked for the rest of the game, then he was clearly scum. If not, then there's a chance (though small, in my estimation) that he was as he said.

[Glork]

Ultros isn't evil at all (unless you're talking about games where he doesn't have a personality at all like FFXII -- which clearly wasn't what inspired Kise to include him as a character). He's like Anya from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Rest of old case is old.

I tend to send mods a million PMs as soon as I get my role PM to clarify issues. I would have asked Kise about flavor before using an ability like that, especially if I'd intended to claim N0. There's always the possibility that he would have refused to answer, but ye know.

I'm also too shy to gambit a Death Miller claim. [/WIFOM]

Has anyone ever played with scumGlork before? I've played with (HEHEHE) Death Miller Glork, but never non-town Glork AFAIK.

The last time I checked, being a lecherous menace, and trying to kill the party REPEATEDLY weren't signs of a PROTAGONIST.

Also, your defenses on what you would/wouldn't do are largely irrelevant. All flavor and setup evidence points towards you being scum. It's not going to convince me to move my vote.

I do like the subtle OMGUS, though, asking how I play as scumGlork once I finally decide that you're scum. It makes me that much happier with my vote. It wouldn't surprise me if you were consciously trying to get on my good side until just now, at which point you seem to feel the need to discred it me somehow. Furthermore, even if I *WERE* scum, there are obviously multiple scum factions, so it wouldn't really take anything away from the cases I present.

[Glork]

No protown player in their right mind kills N0. There were two kills N0. Don't even pretend otherwise.

[Glork]

To be honest, I'd forgotten about the night start, and that's a good point. Could still be scum+SK, though.

"Scumgroup" in my vocabulary refers to any anti-town faction, regardless of size.

[Glork]

inHim, that's not going to happen. Chrono is DEFINITIVELY protown (and I'm protown, too). Chrono's overnight post has convinced me that he is by far the most protown person in the game.

Devo has another decent point about determining Ultros' DMness. All the people who "wanted to wait for scum to flip first" have ZERO reason to do so. I kinda want everyone to weigh in on how they feel about Iece. Is he or is he not scum?

[Glork]

This flavor+set-up-based lynch idea Glork has come up with over the last few pages is very silly IMO.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I've already stated that if you are in fact NOT the inker, then I am willing to share a significant portion of responsibility for a mislynch if that does in fact wind up being the case.

[Glork]

I wouldn't put it past the blinder to stop firing just to muddle the situation. Taking away a single player's vote isn't very useful until endgame, anyway.

I know this thought had crossed my mind sometime last night, but I know that I'd thought of why I didn't think it was that big a deal. But I cannot for the life of me remember why now. I'm currently re-reading to see if I can jog my own memory.

[Glork]

BV is in fact an excellent scum candidate. He should probably be vigged tonight.

[Glork]

I'm not even after the

informatino

from your death. In fact, I could probably name four or five deaths that would be more informative. I'm just that convinced that you are scum.

[Glork]

Quick note: This is the second straight day that, once someone has gotten near-lynch (like L-2, L-1), Dram has pushed to just get the day over with very quickly.


Super duper suspicious. Put Dram in that same "vig him" category as BV.

[Glork]

The concept of waiting when someone is at L-1 is tied into the "waiting for a claim" spirit. Both time theyd already claimed.

Your behavior is consitent with someone who KNOWS that there is a lynch of someone not-in-their-faction and that you just want the day to end ASAP before the town can correct its errors.

[Glork]

FoS: KDub

I will be more than happy to provide an FoS count as often as needed. How about this suggestion: If the mod doesn't give us FoS counts, then it's any player's responsibility to post one when they start a new page.

To this degree, bill's concerns about FoS "weakness" can be mitigated.

[Glork]

Seems to me the scums might be using the music/distraction + doom in conjunction.


I feel like I've been right-tracked since the Iece thing. BV was definitely scum, KDub has a decent chance of being scum. I had Devo and inHim as solidly town -- inHim obviously was right, and Devo at the very least was targeted to die. Chron is still decently likely to be protown. I'm fence-sitting on Anti and Dram (yes, despite the Ramuh claim).

2 Mafias + SK seems like a small stretch, but it's very much

possible

, I think. I don't see the Doomer being a Vig at this point. And there is still NO reason for a vig to kill N1. So Electrocuted, Doom, and Nothingness are almost def all scum kills. Interesting note on the change of flavor from N1 to N3. Either the scums thought their Nothingness-Man got blocked, or that person picked up suspicion by the end of D2 and into N3.

In other news, the only two people who inHim consistently and repeatedly said seemed protown were me and Bill. Could be potential investigation results -- take with grain of salt.

[Glork]

I will also add that I think we have at least two more lurkish scums alive.

I expect VERY significant contributions from DTM, FC Grog, thatguy00, MehPlusRawr, and KDub. Those people (and/or their predecessors, where applicable) have failed to make an impression on me, and are all above-average candidates for killingfulness.

[Glork]

Interesting note on the change of flavor from N1 to N3. Either the scums thought their Nothingness-Man got blocked, or that person picked up suspicion by the end of D2 and into N3.

The nothingness changijng flavour to drown to kill their own buddy?

Huh? Kill their own buddy? Please make sense.

[Glork]

Actually, Two scumgroups + Vig is still very much possible.

Electrocuted is obviously from one group.
Nothing/Doom might be of the same group.
Drowned = Lovely and Wonderful Vigilante.


Will muse on this.

[Glork]

Finally, I am idlly wondering if Devo should claim, on the off-chance she dies at end-of-day anyway. Cue the "OMG GLORK IS ROLEFISHING" accusation posts.

Devo, at the start of D2 I asked if I was still blind or if that got erased at end of day, and the mod told me I was good to go. Could you ask the same about your Doom status? ("What happens if my doom counter does not reach zero before the day ends?")

---

Vote Count:

Nothing.

Not Voting:

Antifinity
bill1148
Chronopie
Devotress
dramonic
DTMaster
FC Groningen
Glork
JPSalazar
KDub
MehPlusRawr
PranaDevil
thatguy00
wolframnhart

Lynch:

8 votes.

Deadline:

June 1st - 3:00 PM EST

[Glork]

Unoffiical FoS Count:

Antifinity 1 (bill1148)
KDub 1 (Glork)


Not FoSing: 12 (JPSalazar, KDub, Devotress, PranaDevil, Chronopie, Antifinity, DTMaster, thatguy00, dramonic, FC Groningen, wolframnhart, MehPlusRawr)

[Glork]

you were originally saying nothingness and drowned belonged to the scumgroup. I was telling you shooting their body wasnt exactly good.

I still fail to see how Nothingness/Drowned being in the same group means they killed their own member.

[Glork]

@Glork:

I am definitely leaning more towards Antifinity being scum. I had been right initially in my Iecerint suspicionin the past.

Apparently you don't understand how a Death Miller role works exactly.

It is a role, which, when killed, shows up as a Mafia member rather than its actual role.

General consensus is that Iece was actually protown, because as scum he would have flipped "Mafia Blinder" (or similar) and nobody would have been blinded.

[Glork]

you were originally saying nothingness and drowned belonged to the scumgroup. I was telling you shooting their body wasnt exactly good.

I still fail to see how Nothingness/Drowned being in the same group means they killed their own member.

Are you implying two mafia groups? I thought your theory was SK?

....

Go back and read what I said.

Originally I said two mafia groups + SK was a possibility, though unlikely.
Then I said two "scumgroups" (meaning Mafia + Mafia or Mafia + SK) + Vig was also a possiblity.

Either way, that STILL doesn't explain how you got "kill their own scumbuddy" out of it.



Bill: Traditionally, Thief is an investigative role, which may or may not also be a miller. Each night, the Thief targets one player and gets information about that player's role and/or ability by "stealing" an item belonging to that person. It was designed as an alternate to Cops in flavorful games. See the wiki entry for more.

[Glork]

I'm considering the possibility that inHim got a partially damning result on Prana. In his very first post he states he has a "stone cold lock" on Prana as scum, and he maintains this position throughout his posts.

Prana point-blank tells him that he's an information role, and inHim denies it (as any good info role should do when confronted with their investigated guilty), but his language and adamancy make it VERY clear that Prana is scum and that inHim wants Prana dead.

UnFoS: KDub
FoS: Prana

for now... Prana's play has seemed off at times anyway, so I'm content with a bit more pressure here.

[Glork]

Your other point is that the mafia could use their night kill to create wifom on people. I don't think it's worth the risk and have a very hard time imagining the mafia risking killing one of their own people just to give someone some possible town points.

The "WIFOM" point is doubly nullified by the fact that we know there are two non-town killing groups. Seems silly to say "X was doomed so they must be protown" when crosskills are completely possible.

Devo was doomed, but she is protown for a bajillion reasons completely unrelated to being targeted by scum.


So yeah, FoS counts are definitely the way to go here.

[Glork]

I've never played in a game with a thief before (let alone two of them). Does it function like a role cop, or more like a roleblocker?

Bill: Traditionally, Thief is an investigative role, which may or may not also be a miller. Each night, the Thief targets one player and gets information about that player's role and/or ability by "stealing" an item belonging to that person. It was designed as an alternate to Cops in flavorful games. See the wiki entry for more.

---

Vote Count:

Nothing.

Not Voting:

Antifinity
bill1148
Chronopie
Devotress
dramonic
DTMaster
FC Groningen
Glork
JPSalazar
KDub
MehPlusRawr
PranaDevil
thatguy00
wolframnhart

Lynch:

8 votes.

Deadline:

June 1st - 3:00 PM EST

[Glork]

9u0Unoffiical FoS Count:[/u]

Antifinity 3 (bill1148, KDub, PranaDevil)
PranaDevil 2 (MehPlusRawr, Glork)
KDub 1 (Dramonic)
bill1148 1 (Chronopie)


Not FoSing: 7 (JPSalazar, Devotress, Antifinity, DTMaster, thatguy00, FC Groningen, wolframnhart)

[Glork]

I'll be in Atlantic City this weekend (WOOOO!!!). Will you all be okay, vote/lynch-wise? Or should I have Spyrex get mod powers?

Considering none of us plan on voting until we've reached a Lynch Of Suspicion, I think you'll be okay.

[Glork]

inHim did seem tunnelled on Prana for much of the game, but he ended up switching to Iec. I wonder if he might have investigated Prana during N2 and then backed off because of whatever result he got? Pure speculation, I know, but if he had a "stone cold lock" due to an investigative result, why let up the pressure?

Two things on this:
1) inHim barely posted throughout D2, and his late vote on Iece was after the entire case had been presented. If inHim agreed with Iece being scum, then there's no reason to derail the wagon in favor of a PranaLynch at that time.
2) inHim may have been worried that he was being too obvoius, and Thief investigations aren't genreally 100% damning. I am notoriously bad at noticing Investigative tells (see Kingmaker), but I'm willing to bet that his death last night was NOT by mere happenstance.

Also, what the hell is this "investigated him N2 then backed off" business? The only strong language he used was at the very start of D1, when he (an INVESTIGATIVE ROLE) said he had a STONE COLD LOCK on someone as scum. inHim has played for like six years, there's no way he fake-breadcrumbs a result like that.


Terrible defense of your scumbuddy there, KDub.

[Glork]

Hey guys. Sorry about the inactivity but I'm slowly catching up in all my games. Since I'm heavily behind it's time for VC analysis to isolate the scum players.

Protip: I hear all the cool kids are FoSing Prana and/or KDub right now.

[Glork]

In other news, I have decided that KDub shall

NOT

test blindness with his vote today.

If we do get a lynch on scum, then Test Vote + 8 votes to lynch + Condemned Scum voting will kill Devo anyway.

And we definitely don't want Devo dead.

[Glork]

Also, Antifinity is definitively protown. His most recent post ("notes person has an ability") is something that he

absolutely would not post in the public thread

if he were scum. He would keep quiet and just nightkill Devo (assuming Devo doesn't die today)

[Glork]

10 - 1 Test vote - 8 votes = 1.

Doom acts on 0.

We just have to make sure that the scum doesn't have time to place a vote on someone else in the middle of the lynch chain.

But the odds of having 8 people online to chain vote like that isn't great.

You have a point Glork.

Right, it would rely on the lynchee being town (not good) or them not being online in the entire time it takes the rest of the town to wagon him to death.

Testing "is KDub blind" is not worth the risk. I am even willing ot accept that KDub got blinded, though I don't think it says anything about alignment at this point. N3 isn't a bad time to slip in a "blind your own teammate," and there is always cross-blinding as a possibility.

[Glork]

And I hope that doom doesn't kill Dev if we get a lynch in before 10 votes. After all best way to beat doom in the game if you couldn't cure it was to beat all the enemies before the timer ran down.

I'm skeptical getting to night really classifies as "beating all enemies".
Just saying.

My Blindness wore off at the end of the day, which can be considered End-of-Battle. Same happened with Wolf at the end of D2.
Just saying.

[Glork]

This game needs a shot in the arm. Maybe I'm just getting impatient.

---

Vote Count:

Nothing.

Not Voting:

Antifinity
bill1148
Chronopie
Devotress
dramonic
DTMaster
FC Groningen
Glork
JPSalazar
KDub
MehPlusRawr
PranaDevil
thatguy00
wolframnhart

Lynch:

8 votes.

Deadline:

June 1st - 3:00 PM EST

[Glork]

FoS like we would normally vote, until someone gets eight FoSes, then lynch that person in rapid succession... otherwise treat the day as regular.

[Glork]

@ Glork

Regarding your speculation that "Drown" is a Vig ability, I doubt it. If that were the case, that means the same faction got in 2 kills during the first Night Phase. Never heard of or seen that before.

Not following you.


N1: "Electrocute" team electrocutes Reck, "Death" team turns ABR into nothingness.
N2: "Electrocute" team electrocutes Nautilus, "Death" team dooms Starbuck
N3: "Electrocute" team electrocutes inHim, "Death" team dooms Devo, "Drowning Vig" vigges BV.

How is that not plausible? Doom and reduction to nothingness sound like autokill abiltiies which have similar enough flavor to possibly be linked. That gives them a kill N1, N2, and N3. Drowning is the odd kill out, flavor-wise, and it was on BV, who I had just mandated needed to die because he was very clearly scum.

Re: Thieves in this particular game - We don't know how their results would be oriented, because neither Thief claimed anything before they died. Both ABR's and inHim's knowledge of the role went with them to the graveyard. All I know is that based on inHim's immediate and unrelenting suspicion of Prana, it is reasonable to believe that he got a guilty result on Prana.
Combine that with Prana's scummerrific play, and he's a great lynch candidate. As I've stated many times before, I would gladly lynch KDub as an alternate. By the end of the day, I may even post a case on why he's scummy.

[Glork]

In fact, I think it's downright STPUID (if not scummy) to suggest that the Doomer got blocked N1. Bill and Antifinity are suggesting that there are

THREE SEPARATE KILLING FACTIONS WHICH WOULD KILL N0

which -- while not entirely unheard of -- would require unbelievable balancing power on the town's side. I don't buy it for a second.

If I were a betting man, I'd put up 10,000 gil on Nothingness/Doom coming from different members of the same scumgroup.

[Glork]

In response to that Glork, I'd like to know why you think Doom was not used N1.

I just think the scums used different people to kill between N1 and N2. It seems far more likely than having Mafia/Mafia/SK (presumably). Flavor fits -- Reduced to Nothingness is probably from the spell "Kill" or "Death" (however you want to name it). The notion of BV getting vigged fits. Perhaps the "Death" group wasn't worried about their kill getting blocked or protected. Supposing one Town Roleblocker and one Town Doctor, there is still an astronomically small chance that the kill will be prevented.

Doom, on the other hand, will work approximately once. It was definitely used N2, and we almost immediately figured out a workaround so that it will (hopefully) no longer be useful as a kill method. Personally, I think that the scums are stupid for even attempting to do it again. If our reasoning that Doom wears off at day's end is correct, then Doom will likely not be used for the rest of the game.

[Glork]

The only benefit I see to Doom is that it probably can't be protected against. Unlike a straight up "kill," curative magic doesn't do anything to Doom. But it's still a one-trick pony, and one that I certainly wouldn't use N1.

[Glork]

Bill, please explain to me where you think each of the kills from each night came from.

[Glork]

Except it was guaranteed to work D1 and D2 if used. The minimum required votes to kill someone D1 was, what, 12? The minimum required votes to kill someone D2 was 10. In both situations, it would not have mattered whether we just FOS' or not. The player with Doom would die regardless if we intended to lynch anyone.

It is also guaranteed to work in LyLo, and on the day the Doomer is to be lynched, as they can presumably spin down the counter themselves.

[Glork]

Except it was guaranteed to work D1 and D2 if used. The minimum required votes to kill someone D1 was, what, 12? The minimum required votes to kill someone D2 was 10. In both situations, it would not have mattered whether we just FOS' or not. The player with Doom would die regardless if we intended to lynch anyone.

It is also guaranteed to work in LyLo, and on the day the Doomer is to be lynched, as they can presumably spin down the counter themselves.

EBWOP: Of course, all of this discussion is moot if Devo dies at end of day anyway.

[Glork]

Now, considering a scumgroup having MULTIPLE kills is so unbelievably far from standard, and would require a VERY powerful town to balance, do you think the dead players (masons, vanilla, THIEVES - not cops) makes sense with your theory?

[Glork]

This whole "who did what kills from which group" discussion is completely shutting down actual scumhunting. I regret having started it to begin with.

[Glork]

I have to agree, I don't see why you would go an vote when it seemed to be agreed upon to let your FoS be your vote. It seems very Anti town.

What are your top four suspicions, and why?

Name two people who you think are probably protown.

Which single player do you think is most likely to be one of BV's scumbuddies?

[Glork]

I'd like somebody on the JP wagon to explain how his desire to vote makes him
A) More likely to be scum than he was before he voted; and
B) More likely to be scum than your next best scum target



I think JP is quickly becoming the fallguy for something relatively minor here.


Once again, Prana and Dram shine as key people on a bad wagon. At this point, I'm starting to not care that Dram has claimed Ramuh.

[Glork]

JP's jump on voting before an agreeable to majority lynch target is scummy, as it reduces the chance of Survival of Doom on the doomed player (Devo)

But given the context of JP having been frustrated with the game's rate of progress before, and the knowledge that voting is only going to shine a spotlight on oneself, do you really think he would be the first person to cast that stone if scum?

I know there's a small amount of WIFOM in there, but the risk is clearly MUCH greater for JPscum than it is for genuinely frustrated JPtown.





It also really doesn't help that two of the people I've suspected on and off all game are 3rd/4th on the wagon. Chrono, please go review Prana's voting history and Dram's voting history, and provide me with your own analysis of their play. Pay special attention to Dram's behavior towards end-of-day, as well.

[Glork]

By the way, why do people keep saying that there is a reduction in lynch majority? Mod votecounts on every page very clearly say 8 to lynch.

[Glork]

Okay, I completely missed that post, and the VC at the top of this page still says 8.

MOD: Please fix the Lynch Threshold at the top of the page.

[Glork]

Why wouldn't a scum JP do that, then say it's everyone "elses" fault if Devotress doesn't survive because of it?

Now you're putting words into JP's mouth that he never said and probably never would say. You can't fucking make a case against somebody because he "will then say it's everyone else's fault" because you can't predict what he would or wouldn't say.

The fact that he's come straight out and stated that Anti should be voted regardless of everyone elses views as we go, and has (seemingly) ignored everyone elses play is ridiculous to even consider as being pro-town.

Also the statement that he's frustrated with the speed of play is ridiculous as it was during a weekend, when forum posting in general is down anyway, and we all had a system we were using to try and keep someone alive.

Fucking go back and read his posts. JP has said on MULTIPLE occasions that the pace of this game is extremely slow. His post is PERFECTLY consistent with his past behavior, which has NOTHING to do with weekends. You're making shit up again.

If it's frustrated anything, it sounds more like frustrated scum who was hoping that Devotress would be dead, not be (possibly) surviving the day phase and staying alive outright.

Why do you say this? What evidence is there that he was 'hoping devo would have died already'? The "Don't vote" plan has been in place since Starbuck died YESTERDAY, so don't give me any bullshit about him expecting us to have voted.

Glork, why do you think a pro-town JP would ignore everything that has been said, and agreed on, to just go it alone and ignore the majorities views?

Again, read over his posts from yesterday. HE IS FRUSTRATED BECAUSE PEOPLE KEEP TALKING ABOUT OTHER SHIT AND NOT GETTING TO LYNCHING SCUMS.






For fuck's sake, everyone.

PRANA. IS. SCUM.

I don't know how much clearer I can say this but he needs to die NOW. He has done nothing but make hypocritical cases, jump bad wagons, and post bullshit that doesn't even make logical sense, like what he just made up about what JP is allegedly thinking. Prana's explanation for JPscum is based on a slew of assumptions that NO reasonable player can make, and he is DESPERATELY trying to make sure this wagon goes on.

[Glork]

But Anti is scum too
And kdub!

So many options!

Plan.

Lynch Prana today.
Vig KDub tonight.

Profit.

[Glork]

Also, Dram, don't think I haven't noticed that your four scum suspects are the four people who have gotten the most atteniton. If there is an SK in the game, it is almost certainly you -- Ramuh claim be damned.

[Glork]

Glork, you're an idiot. Pro-town possibly, but an idiot still based on how you've read what I've said (and how you're missing things).

I actually laughed aloud at this sentence. Protip: Calling one of the best players in the history of this game an idiot says more about you than it does about me.

But I'm going to explain why you're an idiot, and I am not, and I'm going to do my absolute best to keep ad hom out of the rest of this post. If you are scum and are just acting the fool, that's fine. I'm going to make sure that you die, whether it's by lynch or by convincing the vig to kill you, just as they did BV. On the off-chance that you are town, the rest of this post is for you to read and think about.

You sit here and say that JP's posts can't be anything but scummy, and that shows just how mediocre your analysis skills are. If you genuinely believe that JP could not possibly have voted somebody without being scum, then you are clearly incapable of stepping out of your own shoes and into those of another player. I have already twice explained that JP's vote, and the post in which he made it, is consistent with the broader context of his play, dating back to yesterday. On multiple occasions, JP has expressed displeasure with the pace of this game:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 60#2246960
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 63#2248963
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 37#2249737
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 12#2249812

Now look at his post today:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 34#2271734

Like I said, put yourself in JP's shoes for a minute. Since early in D2, you have been frustrated with the rate of play. This game is not even halfway through D3, and we are already 40 pages into it. D2 dragged on forever. But five pages, and five days into D3, nobody has placed a single vote, and you have been frustrated with the lack of progress for WEEKS.

Now, given all this frustration, the fact that we can't even get anyone to 4 FoSes (much less the seven required to "pre-lynch"), and your weeks of frustration, if you yourself were in this position, would you consider putting down a vote to incite discussion and (hopefully) a lynch?



Your posts, Prana, indicate that you don't think it's possible for someone to get frustrated with the slowness of the game to the point where they break code. However, I am capable of understanding that, if JP is frustrated town, he could very well do this. So while you sit here and say it must necessarily be scummy, I'm afraid you are sorely mistaken.

Before I wrote this up, I actually wrote up a post in which I was going to vote for you and dare you to try to get me lynched, just to prove a point. I've taken a few minutes to cool my jets a bit, and decided that's probably not the best way to get you killed today. Instead I will continue to point to your bad attacks, your bandwagony nature, your bad attacks, your unwillingness to concede that you might be wrong, and your bad attacks.

So, was JP's action stupid? Yes. It was incredibly stupid. All it did was bring suspicion upon himself and take away what little flexibility we had in proceeding with a vote. But from where I'm sitting, he did it as stupid TOWN, not stupid SCUM. You can either continue to ignore JP's past behavior and refuse to do any legwork or analysis for yourself, or you can look at the posts I linked to, think about how JP might have posted if he were veryfrustratedtown, and decide for yourself.


-----------------------------------------------------------



Now. To respond to your respose:
1) Okay, so I paraphrased. You didn't say the word "will," but the manner in which you posed your argument indicates that you are basing it on a hypothetical. "Why wouldnt he do X?" is nothing more than mere speculation, and cannot be the foundation of any legitimate logical argument. Your argument is still crap, even if I didn't point that out correctly the first time around.

2) I'm not saying there isn't less posting on weekends. I'm saying "the fact that it's a weekend now has nothing to do with the fact that JP has been frustrated with this game for more than a full day cycle."

3) To re-iterate, I'm not saying I agree with what JP did. I think it was a bone-headed move. But obviously, I think he did it with good intentions, not bad habit.

---

Vote Count:

Antifinity: 1

(JPSalazar)

Not Voting:

Antifinity
bill1148
Chronopie (Voteless)
Devotress
dramonic
DTMaster
AdumbroDeus

FC Groningen

Glork
KDub
MehPlusRawr
PranaDevil
thatguy00
wolframnhart

Lynch:

7 votes.

Deadline:

June 1st - 3:00 PM EST

[Glork]

And since I'm in a verbose mood, I'm going to go ahead and finally make that "Why KDub is scum" case. Stay tuned, and be prepared to move your FoSes to KDub.

[Glork]

Whee, KDub. Let's start with Post 111:

Iecerint, can you clarify:

If I die, people will think I'm no good, but that's just because the real baddies haven't shown up yet. I lose my Death Miller curse after at least one "anti-town" player has flipped (counts scum, SK, cult, but not neutral survivors). If I flip simultaneous with an anti-town player before another anti-town player has flipped, I'll still be cursed, though, so watch out! (For example, if scum and me are both killed N0, we'll both flip guilty, but if scum flips guilty N0, I'll no longer be a Death Miller starting D1. If I flip before scum, I'll flip guilty.)

If you die before an anti town player has flipped, then you flip "

Ultros (Mafia)

"?
If you die after an anti town player has flipped, you flip "

Ultros (Death Miller)

"?
Does anything happen if you die first, then an anti town player flips?

I'm just having a tough time seeing this as a legitimate game mechanic. That plus the fact that Ultros is an antagonist plus the ink thing (good catch there, didn't even think about that) makes me uneasy about keeping you alive, especially since you otherwise have no abilities that would be useful to the town.

FoS: Zodiark

, all of his posts have been IIoA except for an OMGUS accusation of Glork, which clearly isn't the case.

This comes about midway through Page 5. After Zodiark recieves a little bit of attention, KDub presents somewhat of a case against him which amounts to "so far, Zodiark's posts have been information instead of analysis." Setting aside the fact that IIoA is a craptell (town do it much more often than scums do, but I will leave that debate for postgame), let's compare KDub's accusations against Zodiark with KDub's own posting up to that point.
KDub's four posts before his "IIoA" attack on Zodiark consiste of:
Saying he doesn't think Ultros would be protown (without bothering to reason out why scumUltros would fakeclaim deathmillerUltros to begin with)
Agreeng that Iece's post could have been intended as a joke, and asking for clarification
Asking Dram about his N0 softclaim
Asking Iece if there is a flavor reason Ultros could be town (without bothering to reason out that Ultros was a non-hostile NPC at the very, very end of the game, after fighting him repeatedly)
...and the first half of his Zodiark post, in which he asks Iece about flipping upon death.

So.... we have a halfassed vote with no analysis of Iece's motivations for claiming Ultros if he is UltrosScum, and a few softball questions to Dram and Iece.
Nowhere in any of those posts did KDub bother to actually explain why he felt the way he did about Iece.
Nowhere in any of those posts did KDub bother to analyze any other players' actions.
Nowhere in any of those posts did KDub really bother to analyze anything else relevant going on in the game. His posts were filler softball questions and nothing more.

Then he has the testicular fortitude to go after Zodiark (who was flaunting his knowledge of FFery for all to see) for IIoA.
Hypocrisy, much?

It should be noted that even AFTER his IIoA attack against Zodiark, KDub continues to provide any "this is why X is scum" or "this is why Y is town" kind of post. KDub's own Post 5 and Post 6 are just more general musings on game mechanics. I would love for him to explain how that was leading him to find scum, if he can't be arsed to analyze any other player's behavior.


The next significant thing KDub does is, of course, to hop on the Zodiark wagon after the latter's V/LA blunder:

Eh, jester is probably as likely as a death miller.

I'm afraid I'm gunna have to call V/LA on this game for about a week, cause I'm behind on my read of this game

It's worth pointing out that zodiark has posted elsewhere on site too, in the time that he's been avoiding this thread.

Unvote
Vote: Zodiark13

I'm moving into the camp of those who thinks we should save Iecerint for tomorrow. Zodiark's play has been more suspicious.

Key things to remember here:
1) KDub is that magical fourth on a steamroll of a wagon.
2) Weaksauce reasoning provided of "his play has been more suspicious." This kind of wording positively

reeks

of "I just want to throw down some garbage 'reason' to be on this lynch."
3) After the vote, he piles onto the Zodiark push, repeating the whole "he is posting/joining other games" thing


Then we have Zodiark's first post of D2, the last part of which I will provide for you:

I'm going to stick with Iecerint for my vote. He hasn't acted particularly scummy, but he hasn't really acted pro-town either. I get a sense that he is commenting a lot on the setup, but not so much on other players. Add in the Ultros, death miller, and ink stuff and I think I'd like to see him lynched. I just know it's going to bug me more and more the longer he survives in the game.

Vote: Iecerint

Obviously the "I suspect Iece for the Ultros thing" isn't going through, so KDub changes tactics here. And what is his new tactic?
BURDEN OF PROOF.
"He hasn't acted particularly scummy, but he hasn't really acted pro-town either."
First of all, there were like half a dozen people who "hadn't acted particularly protown" at that point in the game. There were lurkers galore, and Iece was genuinely furthering discussion, which is far more protown than, for example, FC or WorseExcuse.
Secondly, IT'S BURDEN OF PROOF. KDub is basically saying "he must act demonstrably protown, or I will continue to suspect him." This is an absolutely HORRIBLE reason to vote someone, much less revive your past suspicion. KDub's clearly fishing for an alternate angle to get suspicion put onto Iece at this point.


Next we have:

FoS: FC Groningen

His last post feels very much like him trying to "play the field", keeping as many options open as possible so he has an excuse for shifting to other wagons later on.

Still not seeing a good reason to move from Iec at the moment.

This is another somewhat hypocritical post, though not as much as the earlier Zodiark one. It's notable because if you look at KDub's posts up to this point, he really doesn't ever bring anyone else into the discussion. When I iso'd KDub, I'd had a distinct feeling that it was KDub who was playing the field, even

before

I came to this post. And if you look at the language in much of his posts, he softballs everything until he can get a feel for how the rest of the town feels about his favored people of discussion:

That said, I'd rather try and hit another scum before Icerint if possible, because frankly, incase he's telling the truth about his death miller role It'd make analysing people's interactions in this game alot easier if we managed to hit another scum before him so we know for sure if Icerint is really scum.

I thought about this as well. If he is telling the truth, it would be better to save him until after a non-town flip. The problem is, what if he is lying scum and actually has night actions? Should we really give him another night to use them?

How is it flimsy? Besides the flavor clearly stating it, did you not take elementary science? What happens when a lightning bolt hits ANYTHING?

That's beside the point, it's flimsy because he's claimed sodding Ramah! It hasn't been contested (and if he's lying... no, the real one shouldn't step forward until it's worth doing so), and thus he's not going to be scum in this game. Thus it's flimsy logic to focus on a good guy.

Ramuh could be a safeclaim. I'm not saying he is scum, but it's pretty weak to assume that someone is telling the truth simply because they claim a character and are not counterclaimed.

I'm moving into the camp of those who thinks we should save Iecerint for tomorrow.

I suspect Iecerint for the Ultros thing, but I don't see Glork as particularly suspicious. Can someone summarize the case on him?

Regarding the doom counter (I caught up after Starbuck died), at what point did the first few numbers appear? JP was the first to point them out in 444, but I wonder how long they had been there before he did so. It's very possible that Iecerint, Prana, and/or Glork were running the counter down quickly on purpose with their votes, and if those numbers were showing up while that sequence was going on, it's evidence that at least one of them was scum and not mentioning anything about them while voting/unvoting. I generally feel good about Glork, unsure about Prana at the moment.

Glork's Note: I include this, because he keeps "wondering" when the numbers show up without bothering to click back a couple of pages and look for himself. It's evident to me that KDub is looking for someone else to make or agree with his stance, hence why it's "playing the field."

Devotress:
I agree that if he flips as Mafia Goon, then he is not the ink source. I don't know that I would say he's not likely to be scum though.

I think that's about when I really started to suspect KDub. I just don't feel that he ever made any strong statements about anyone, but he attacked Zodiark for "IIoA," and FC for "playing the field," when I feel he has been at least as guilty as both of them. And the whole "Iece hasn't really done anything protown" is just mindblowingly bad.





So yeah. An FoS for KDub is an FoS for Progress.

UnFoS
FoS: KDub

[Glork]

EWBOP:

Kiiiiiise

, fix my quooooote taaaag pleeeeeeeeaaase.


<3

[Glork]

EBWOP Again: Okay, after re-reading a bit, it appears as though I misundertsood what KDub meant by "playing the field." His suspicion of FC was because FC named like three people he was suspicious of (voted for Anti, FoSed Chrono, and said he was still suspicious of Prana). Firstly, I don't see how that's necessarily a bad thing. Hell, I've been saying I'm suspicious of like three or four people for most of D3, and you haven't yet accused me of playing the field. Secondly, it doesn't change the fact that KDub is still clearly throwing out weak, open-ended suspicion, questions, and theories to see what the town bites on or doesn't follow.
tl;dr - "playing the field" post isn't hypocritical, but KDub is still scum.

[Glork]

thatguy00

: Please tell us your thoughts on the game. Your predecessor did basically nothing worthwhile, and all we've gotten from you is "I'll get caught up and prolly vote Prana" and "I agree that JP's vote is anti-town."


That is some terribad, lurkeresque behavior. Big fat minus points for you.

[Glork]

There are always two "most common" areas where scums are on a bad D1 wagon in large games. One is that 4-5 range, where you were. The other is that ~8-9 range, where it goes from being "oh look there's a wagon on this guy" to "this guy is near lynch, let's finish him off and end this day." Your position on the Zodiark wagon, combined with your "fuel on the fire" posts afterwards and your tendency to hedge your bets by repeatedly asking the town which way you should go/think about things, is consistent with scum play.

As far as the burden of proof goes: In a vacuum, no, your wording there wasn't traditional burden of proof. But combined with your attitude towards Iece's Ultros claim, it seems pretty evident to me that you were saying "this claim makes you likely to be scum" and you are using "acting protown" as the leverage he would hypothetically need to get into your good graces. This point is strengthened by the fact that you didn't accuse ANYBODY else of being scummy due to an absence of "protown posting" -- a point which you have yet to address.

[Glork]

I just realized something- If we're going to lynch scum, what's to stop the scum from voting and unvoting and running down the doom counter themselves?

I actually covered this when somebody was arguing about the usefullness of a doom kill. I said that Doom was guaranteed to kill on D1, D2, and anytime we are going to lynch scum.

Everyone seemed to ignore that, though. :/

[Glork]

KDub: Name four people who you think have contributed least in this game. (For players who have been replaced, consider the entire player history for that slot.)

[Glork]

DTMaster: Is KDub protown?

thatguy00: Same question.




KDub: Which of those four do you think is LEAST likely to be scum, and why?

[Glork]

Wow, DTM. There are so many things wrong with your catchup.

1) Way to not FoS. Have you paid ANY attention to the Doom Counter stuff we've been discussing for the last several pages?

2) There was a very specific reason for the questiono I asked KDub.

3) DTM, I asked KDub which lurker is

LEAST

likely to be scum, and he said you. Seriously, pay more attention.

4) Can you please explain how you go from "Prana is very, very, very likely town" to "OMG CHAINSAW BUSING! VOTE!!"? Also, please explain what "Chainsaw Busing" is. I don't think I've ever heard that term before.

5) Can you please explain your "likely a 4 scum team" comment? There have been at least two kills per night, including N1 which occured BEFORE D1. So there are very likely two scumgroups. How do you get "a 4-scum team" out of two scumgroups?

[Glork]

EBWOP:

6) Why do you think that Iece is scum, and not a Death Miller, like he claimed?

[Glork]

No.

I have already stated MULTIPLE TIMES that:
No protown role has reason to kill N1.
In my vocabulary, "scumgroup" refers to any scum faction, regardless of size.


I still want to know where you get the number 4 from. And I still want to know what you think of Iece's possible "Death Miller"ness.

[Glork]

Also, if three (and possibly 4, if Iece was protown) townies all collectively suspected somebody, wouldn't it be more likely that Prana is scum, and that Bill was distancing?




Your analysis is horrible. I've not decided if it's scummy yet.

[Glork]

He claimed BEFORE D1, which is the correct way to do so: http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/dajHTHnNPqZFC

There was also like a 5 page discussion about his claim at the start of D1, as Prana already stated.

Go read the freaking quicktopic all the way back to its start.

[Glork]

Hello people, I just said

I didn't read and would start off with a VC analysis

Understandable. I would suggest reading through the QT, and then start at the start of D1.

[Glork]

@Glork
"cough" Because 4 is the traditional size in large themes.

Kingdom Hearts Mafia.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12809

4 Mafia scum. 1 SK.

If you think there is 2 scum groups, then I think this is the most traditional setup for something this big.

I guess what confuses me is that, if you were assuming Iece was scum, and his role is listed as a different color than BV, then 4 mafia/1 SK doesn't really make sense as a conclusion.

[Glork]

Actually 3 scum factions mean that town is in lylo. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Nah, if we don't hit scum today, and there are is in fact Mafia+Mafia+SK, then they're pretty much forced to start crosskilling.


Heck, if it's Mafia+Mafia+Vig, the scums are probably forced to start crosskilling. If the town is bad enough that Mafia are playing the "outduel each other" game, then Mafia A is Mafia B's biggest threat, and vice versa, so it's not a bad thing to leave the stupid townspeoples alive.

[Glork]

Glork
Hey, do you know when I voted I fished out 2 scum. Yeah you know that? Lets murder Prana the already scummy person and his Echo.

Also Ice will be treated as confirmed red scum in my VC analysis. His claim = fake fake fake fake fake, considering the orange and red flips and the lack of other DM claiming (no mirroring to the factions).

Actually, Prana's recent posting hasn't been too bad. I'm pretty sure you are extraordinarily wrong right now. I don't think you could be more backwards.

---

Vote Count:

Antifinity: 1

(JPSalazar)

PranaDevil: 1

(DTMaster)

Not Voting:

AdumbroDeus
Antifinity
bill1148
Chronopie (Voteless)
Devotress
dramonic
Glork
KDub
MehPlusRawr
PranaDevil
thatguy00
wolframnhart

Lynch:

7 votes.

Deadline:

June 1st - 3:00 PM EST

[Glork]

Prana, if you have relevant information to claim, you might as well do so. Role/Name/Targets is fine.

[Glork]

Dram's FoS count is wrong. I'm currently FoSing KDub.

[Glork]

Glork, So you can explain 3 kills, 2 colors, and 2 at least factions without Ice Faking his DM claim?

I'm pretty sure one of the scum players died at night.

Orange Mafia = Reduced to Nothingness / Doom kills

SK = Electrocuted Kills

"Red Mafia" = Iece Death Miller

"Drowning" kill = Vigilante



Same thing I've been saying for like the last six or seven pages. :rolleyes:

[Glork]

Hm, you might be right. If it's the Four Fiends, then Tiamat uses Thunderbolt, which fits in with the electrocution kills.

Not sure what that says about Nothingness / Doom. Maybe Iece was scum afterall.

[Glork]

EBWOP: Although, Kraken can use Thundara and Blind, too: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Krak ... Fantasy%29

[Glork]

I'd still attribute the Drown Kill to Kraken, Rather than the electrocution which sounds like Tiamat more..

But here I hit a snag. Kraken wouldn't Target Marilis. So that would indicate a redirect/bus driver, but that would be two kills from the one group in one night. Or another group targeted Bv310 for drowning.

The other snag is the fact that if Tiamat thundered and Kraken drowned, that'd be two kills coming from the same scumgroup, which I still think is extremely unlikely.

No, I'm content to believe that BV's group has Tiamat doing electrocution kills, and Kraken blinding. Not sure what Lich is up to, though.





One thought regarding the Music Notes thing that Starbuck and Devo got -- since this is Square Enix Mafia and not Final Fantasy Mafia, can anybody think of non-FF Squeenix games that might have this sort of flavor? I played SO3 a few years back, but I don't really recall much about the game aside from grinding for battle trophies and the obnoxious post-plot dungeons.

[Glork]

@Glork

Orange Mafia = Reduced to Nothingness / Doom kills

SK = Electrocuted Kills

"Red Mafia" = Iece Death Miller

"Drowning" kill = Vigilante

This is horrible. This means multiple kills have failed/hit the same person. This also gives Orange Mafia Day and Night kills. In fact this game is so swingy that town would lose in 3 days in a WCS. There is this thing called Balanced you know.

You know what, this post bugs me beyond belief.

Nah, it's perfectly plausible. The "missing" kills are

the vigilante choosing not to kill on the first two nights

which would be the sign of a GOOD vigilante. It is a setup with one Mafia, one SK, and a Vigilante which is perfectl plausible. It accounts for every kill in a reasonable manner.

Now, flavor discussions have made this an unlikely possibility, but I am going to explain in plain detail why this setup would be perfectly plausbile otherwise.

Hypothetical Setup With Full Night Actions

SK Electrocutor - Blue Text
"Death Mafia" with nothingness/Doom flavor - Orange Text
"Drowning Vigilante" - Green Text
Iece = Death Miller whose name shows up red upon death

N1:

SK electrocutes Reckoner

Death Mafia reduces ABR to nothingness

Drowning Vigilante elects not to kill anyone

D1:

Zodiark13 lynched

N2:

SK electrocutes Elli

Death Mafia dooms Starbuck

Drowning Vigilante elects not to kill anyone

D2:

Starbuck dies via N2 Doom

Iece, Death Miller, Lynched and flips Mafia Goon

N3:

SK electrocutes inHim

Death Mafia dooms Devotress

Drowning Vigilante kills BV

EVERY

action is accounted for. Every 'missing' kill is accounted for. Iece being a Death Miller is accounted for. It has one Mafia and one SK with no less than three power roles and a pair of masons, so the setup has great potential to be balanced.

So don't you fucking dare tell me that such a setup is "horrible," because from a

game mechanics perspective

it makes perfect sense as a theory. You challenged me to come up with a potential setup where Iece would be protown, and I did. So don't call me "horrible" for rejecting your assumption that Iece was scum.

I don't usually condone lynching village idiots, but there is an above average chance that DTM is scum, plus he can't reason out anything for shit, plus he just tried to vote again after everyone got pissed at JP and him for already having voted today. His behavior makes no sense if he is protown. You'd think that after bungling his ENTIRE vote analysis strategy, he would slow down and force himself to read and understand the entire game start-to-finish before spouting off nonsense, but he does none of that, which must necessarily bring him into question.

I would be more than happy with a DTM lynch today.

---

Vote Count:

Antifinity: 1

(JPSalazar)

AdumbroDeus: 1

(DTMaster)

Not Voting:

AdumbroDeus
Antifinity
bill1148
Chronopie (Voteless)
Devotress
dramonic
Glork
KDub
MehPlusRawr
PranaDevil
thatguy00
wolframnhart

Lynch:

7 votes.

Deadline:

June 1st - 3:00 PM EST

[Glork]

I want to see if the mod actually swoops in and kills off Prana. I may be forced to accept that DTM is protown. If he is, I don't plan on listening to a word he says, because not only has he proven himself incapable of helping the town, but he is actively harming our ability to win the game. He can't reason out anything, he killed Prana (who I decided was protown right around the time we got really pissed off at each other), and he's basically condemned Devotress (obvtown) to death.

[Glork]

Blame the mod, not me. Or change your settings.

[Glork]

Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey.

Dumbfucks.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 07#2279407

Since Doom was established, the tick went down in the VOTING POST, not in the VOTE COUNTS.

Devo is indeed going to die today.

It also means that the mod came in and did NOT kill Prana outright.



DTM is almost certainly scum. Am I free to vote him?

[Glork]

Oh wait.

I'm the dumbfuck. I read that tiny red letter as 6, not 8.

[Glork]

Whatver. DTM still needs to die.

[Glork]

Prana, in your vanilla claim.... can you please confirm to me that you have no abilities whatsoever?

[Glork]

No, I know. I was going to wait for Prana to confirm his claim, but I don't think I need to.


Read these three posts:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 37#2233937
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 04#2240504
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 19#2279819

SUPER DUPER GIGANTIC FOS THAT WILL CERTAINLY TURN INTO A VOTE LATER ON: PRANA

Prana, please explain why you BREADCRUMBED Bulletproof in the first post, then claimed that the apparent "missing" nightkill is because you are bulletproof, then claimed Vanilla Townie.





I

knew

I shouldn't have backed off Prana.
*dance dance*

[Glork]

It's the second link that trips me up. If Prana hadn't said "I bet the scum tried to kill me last night," I probably wouldn't have noticed. But in re-reading Iece, I noticed he comment on Prana going "I bet scum tried to kill me" and said to myself, "Wait a fucking second. Why would he say they TRIED to kill him but failed, then claim vanilla."


Nope. Prana screwed up royally. He is scum. Definitely and absolutely.

[Glork]

What the fuck? Why would an SK breadcrumb SK? That's practically ASKING TO BE LYNCHED.



Honestly, DTM. Do you even think before you post? I really need to know this.

---

Vote Count:

Antifinity: 1

(JPSalazar)

Chronopie: 1

(DTMaster)

Not Voting:

AdumbroDeus
Antifinity
bill1148
Chronopie (Voteless)
Devotress
dramonic
Glork
KDub
MehPlusRawr
PranaDevil
thatguy00
wolframnhart

Lynch:

7 votes.

Deadline:

June 1st - 3:00 PM EST

[Glork]

Ah. Yeah, he's probably a Bulletproof SK. I was thinking the same thing.


At any rate, Prana must be lynched today. There is NO other alternative.

[Glork]

Don't worry, KDub. You're next on my list after Prana,

especially

if he turns out to be part of a Mafia. I haven't forgotten that you're near the top of my list, or that you defended him, and don't think that I didn't notice that you're going with the "wait and see what Prana has to say" approach rather than going "Let's lynch the obvscum."

[Glork]

No, Prana. It's one thing to say "I dare them to attack me."

It's an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THING to say,

after a night in which there was one less kill

, "I bet there was one less kill because the scums tried to kill me." That goes from "false breadcrumb" to flat out LYING TO THE TOWN ABOUT YOUR ROLE.




You are NOT going to get out of this alive. You are dead.

[Glork]

Glork, I already said I was trying to draw the scum to attack me.

But if you want to know every part of my flavour, fine, but it means that if scum try and go for me they'll pick the one that would get through.

I'm immune to any, and all, elemental attacks. (Which I take to mean if someone tried frying my with, for instance, lightning, it wouldn't do anything and thus would make me bulletproof to all elemental based scum).

But of course, any attempt at hoping scum do that is right out the window now, ta muchly Glork.

THERE IS NO FLAVOR IN THE KUJATA SUMMON WHICH MAKES YOUR ROLE IMMUNE TO ELEMENTAL ATTACKS. YOU ARE STILL LYING SCUM.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Kujata

[Glork]

And I'm telling everyone that, in a game positively oozing with flavor, your claim not only involved you lying about your role twice, but also makes zero flavorful sense whatsoever.

I mean, I undertsand that you have to do everything you can to survive, especially if you're an SK. But I'm not going to play nice when I've got scum in sight. I'm like a shark when I smell blood.

---

Vote Count:

Antifinity: 1

(JPSalazar)

AdumbroDeus: 1

(DTMaster)

PranaDevil: 1

(dramonic)

Not Voting:

AdumbroDeus
Antifinity
bill1148
Chronopie (Voteless)
Devotress
Glork
KDub
MehPlusRawr
PranaDevil
thatguy00
wolframnhart

Lynch:

7 votes.

Deadline:

June 1st - 3:00 PM EST

[Glork]

Vote: PranaDevil

Yeah yeah, doom counter, etc., blahblah. Prana's going to be lynched anyway, mise well get the votes over with.

6

[Glork]

Vote: PranaDevil

Yeah yeah, doom counter, etc., blahblah. Prana's going to be lynched anyway, mise well get the votes over with.

Glork, you'd better be pretty confident about that.

In any case, I'd like to ask, do you still want to save Devo today? Because now we have to vote Prana to save him.

Yes, I am that confident.

Between inHim's breadcrumbing a villainous result on Prana, the points I've raised against Prana in the past, and the posts where I put together his falsecrumbing of bulletproof (or similar), his flat-out lying speculation, his falseclaim of Vanilla Townie, then his re-false-claim of being immune to elements, I'm extremely confident.

Note ALSO that when Prana "came clean" the second time and said he is immune to elemental attacks, he neglected to provide a correct rolename. There is certainly no way he is Vanilla, and when he re-adjusted his claim to its current version, he still hasn't told us who he actually is.

Bill, have you read through his posts? Prana has changed stories no less than twice, in completely different directions. I can't tell what's up, but it seems off to me that with such damning evidence in Prana, you won't acknowledge what he's done, and you're trying to put suspicion onto Dram instead. Big minus points if Prana flips mafia.




Also, Prana: I'm not ignoring

facts

. I'm pretty much ignoring your word, because it has already been proven completely untrustworthy. The only "facts" that I'm ignoring are what you

claim

is in your role PM. But then again, you

claimed

that "Vanilla Townie" was in your role PM, and that is clearly not the case.

---

Vote Count:

PranaDevil: 3

(dramonic, Glork, PranaDevil)

Antifinity: 1

(JPSalazar)

AdumbroDeus: 1

(DTMaster)

Not Voting:

AdumbroDeus
Antifinity
bill1148
Chronopie (Voteless)
Devotress
KDub
MehPlusRawr
thatguy00
wolframnhart

Lynch:

7 votes.

Deadline:

June 1st - 3:00 PM EST

[Glork]

EBWOP: And yes, Bill, I do want to save Devo today. Lynching Prana without another vote elsewhere will both save Devo and bag us a dirty scumbag. Guranteed.

[Glork]

Either way, get me lynched and let's see if we can save Devo.

Sounds good.

Fun gambit, though.

[Glork]

Well, let's just see what Prana flips and see if we can't figure out what kill(s) have gone missing as of tomorrow morning. I don't want to put the horse before the cart just yet, esepcially because we each get to make a QuickTopic post during night.

[Glork]

I'm blind again, which is also a "mitigate obvioustown players" play.


I want to know why the Vig didn't listen to me and kill KDub like I asked.

FoS: KDub

[Glork]

EBWOP: My pondering, btw, is hypothetical. I don't want the Vig to actually claim.


I do want KDub dead, though.

[Glork]

I've decided that maybe our Vig should just start killling off lurkers. MehPlusRawr, wolframnhart, and thatguy00 have all skated by up to this point. Good to see thatguy posting early in the day today, but he MUST keep that activity up and contribute to scumhunting if he's going to stick around.


Also, Antifinity is an official village idiot. "Death Godfather"? REALLY? How about "DTM was a scummy townie?" I call bullshit on him "not being able" to find another explanation for his behavior. It's called reclessness.

[Glork]

I've decided that maybe our Vig should just start killling off lurkers. MehPlusRawr, wolframnhart, and thatguy00 have all skated by up to this point. Good to see thatguy posting early in the day today, but he MUST keep that activity up and contribute to scumhunting if he's going to stick around.


Also, Antifinity is an official village idiot. "Death Godfather"? REALLY? How about "DTM was a scummy townie?" I call bullshit on him "not being able" to find another explanation for his behavior. It's called reclessness.

[Glork]

Well obviously the Vig disagreed with me. I'm basically telling them to shut the fuck up and listen to me from here on out. In my eyes, DTM was pretty obivously town, even though he did screw up a few things. His earnesty in scumhunting was genuine, as proven by his overnight post in the QuickTopic.

[Glork]

Been busy.... will possibly be busy through Mem Day Weekend. Dones't look like I've missed much, though.


MehPlusRawr is someone I wouldn't mind putting pressure on.

[Glork]

Also, that would leave us with 7 living scum, v.s 5 Town (4 if Sk = doom). Does seem imbalanced.

If this is the case, I will once again point out that the scum's best strategy is actually to crosskill.

It's funny, in every single game with multiple scumgroups, the town gets fucked over, then neither scumgroup wants to crosskill early. They'd rather play an endgame craphsoot, which is almost always a mostly-random coinflip (Will the last townie sway this way or that way?). Then the losing scumgroup professes that they played well but got unlucky, while the winning scumgroup claims they won on pure skill, and that not killing the other scumgroup was the best strategy.

Ceratinly BV's scumgroup must crosskill to bring the numbers back to even in terms of scums.



Also, I don't think 4+4 is unbalanced. Keep in mind that there are 8-9 dead towns, and 1-2 dead scums. Overall, we've played rather poorly (unless Iece was scum, in which case we're.... only playing slightly poorly).


I'm still convinced that lurkerhunting is the way to go. I looked back over D1 for any and every mentioning of BV, and didn't find much.
-- BV made an actual case against Antifinity, and jumped on the Zodiark wagon. Slightly lessens the chances that Anti/BV were scum together.
-- At one point, somoene was going after Zodiark for the lurky thing, and Wolframnhart pointed out that BV has been lurking in this game and posting elsewhere, and hadn't gotten any attention for it. WRH is probably not in BV's scumgroup.

D2, not much either:
-- Chorno's "BV lurker alert" post -- pointed out that in 27 pages, BV had seven posts (most of which were Pages 1/2 during early Dram/Summon flavor discussion)
-- Conveniently, IMMEDIATELY AFTER Chrono's HoS, BV posts. I don't get the "staged" feeling but the "oh fuck, someone found me" feeling. Chrono is probably not in BV's scumgroup.
-- Glork goes "BV must die"


Other things to keep in mind:
-- Glork blinded twice, almost certainly by Kraken -- NOT in BV's scumgroup.
-- Wolfram blinded D2, almost certainly by Kraken - NOT in BV's scumgroup
-- KDub blinded D3, almost certainly by Kraken -- if the scums blinded one of their own, it would have been here (D3 fits expected pattern, and KDub had just garnered the Glork deathwish). I'll give it a slight "not in BV's scumgroup" but am not willing to do much more than that.

[Glork]

MehPlusRawr's iso.


Almost certainly scum. Analysis forthcoming.

[Glork]

Note: Going to use "Post counts" here, so I'm starting with 0, not 1.

Post 0: Death Miller Believable
Post 1: Iece scum.

Now, I'm willing to believe that someone could genuinely be scumhunting and flipflop. Afterall, Devo and I did the exact same thing. What trips me up here is that he specifically calls DeathMiller believable, then in Post 2, he lists "Death Miller claim" as being one of the reasons for Iece being "obvious scum." This kind of flip-flopping is... just bad.


Post 2: "Oops," needs to read/post.

Post 3: "Keep forgetting to post" and "Let's wait on Iece" post. Still irritates me. I still believe that if you think someone's scum, you should want them dead now, not later. There is never an excuse for keeping scum alive. He also asks for a summary on the Zodiark case.

It is worth noting at this point that this is FOURTEEN pages into the game, with MPR having made FOUR posts. One of those posts was an "I'm lurking" post, and in the other three the only person he's actually expressed ANY suspicion of is Iece, which he backed off of for a bad reason.

ZERO legit scumhunting whatsoever up to this point.

His only other post on D1 was to piggyback KDub's "why did you go on V/LA here and sign up for another game?" question.

So, D1 summary of MPR's play:
Iece DeathMiller is believable
Iece Octo/Ink/DeathMiller = scum
I'm lurking
I'm lurking. Let's wait on Iece. What's up w/Zodiark?
What's up w/Zodiark?

Nothing. Absolutely NOTHING else on a

two-week, seventeen-page D1

.





Now, Day Two.

Post 5: Asking about the Tidus thing, weak vote on Prana (trying to imply that Prana knew what was up with Doom/Starbuck, when nobody knew and Starbuck hadn't posted her Doom status yet), and a useless throwaway "facepalm" comment. More nothing.

Post 6 & 7: Piggyback a rolefishing comment by someone else, directed at Anti. Then asks about the "Unfortunately" clause in Prana's post. More non-scumhunting that almost looks like scumhunting.

Post 8: The ever-so-worthless "Nice IIoA" post (directed at Anti).

Post 9: V/LA. (Funny... seems like he's been on V/LA for the vast majority of the game to this point.)

Post 10: Here we actually have something to work with. First he comments on the Anti rolefishing wagon and laments that it went away. (Note: Wishing a quick wagon hadn't gone away is scummy.) Then he goes back to Prana. There is some gold to be found here.
1) He "doesn't know" what Prana's analysis of Iece's claim means. Prana suggests that Iece may have been joking about the Ultros/DM claim.
2) Accuses Prana of IIoA -- after JUST COMMENTING ON PRANA'S ANALYSIS OF IECE'S DEATH MILLER CLAIM.
3) Attacks WORD CHOICE of all things. For some reason MPR is really hooked on Prana's "unfortunately" comment, as if scum would publicly say they hoped people would share information. (Protip: 99% of scums aren't stupid to say "I wish Anti's rolefishing had worked" out loud.)
4) Attacking Prana for the doom thing. I can kind of sort of understand how MPR might have thought Prana knew about Doom beforehand, but the comment that gets me is when MPR says that Prana's ending of the doomcounter is "without a doubt scummiest thing" of the game. That's beyond ridiculous. Was it stupid? Possibly. Probably, even. But the evidence that MPR presents is purely and utterly circumstantial and speculative in nature, so there is NO way that it's the scummiest thing. The only way I could see MPR even REMOTELY believing what he wrote is the fact that he hasn't done a goddamned bit of scumhunting up to this point. I guess it's the scummiest thing he's read, if he hasn't done one worthwhile thing over the course of D1 and D2.

Post 11 is a followup to Prana's response. Not much either way here.

Post 12, back from V/LA.

Post 13: "Prana wagon going nowhere" coincides with "his posting is less scummy at the moment." Jumps back to his other apparent default suspicion, Antifinity.



Note that, again... up to this point, the only people WRM has made (or followed) ANY attacks about are Iece (probable DeathMiller/Town), Zodiark (Town), Prana (Town), commenting on Starbuck after her death, and Anti.

Not once

in this first Day-And-A-Half does he mention

three quarters of the entire playerlist

.

Post 14: Town read on Iece, "need

to reread" Prana. Still no scumhunting anywhere else.


THAT CONCLUDES D2.

Post 15: FoSes Prana for "Still as scummy as yesterday." But wait a second. In his last post, didn't MPR just say he needed to re-read Prana? Where was that re-read? What came out of it? MPR's behavior towards Prana is proof enough that he is scum:
-- The ONLY actual case he presents is against Prana after some kind of Iso.
-- But as soon as the wagon dies down, Prana is "less scummy."
-- Then he needs to reread Prana. Why? You already ISO'd Prana once.
-- Then he FoSes Prana the next day for being "just as scummy" as before.... but "just as scummy" is.... "less scummy"?

Dude's making up shit as he goes along, because he doesn't have anything else to say about the game, because he's just skirting by so he can survive.

Post 17: HOLY FUCK HE SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT SOMEONE ELSE. "JP vote is dumb." Piggyback's Glork's case on KDub. Prana's still scummy. And Anti is still scummy.
Soooooo.... he said something about JP and KDub, but both of them were just echoing what other people had already said.
Conclusion: Still no attempt to play the game or find scum or help the town win.
Follow-Up Conclusion: Still very, very, very obviously scum.

Post 18, nothing noteworthy

Post 19: Responds to KDub. "Glork's reasons" for voting KDub. Prana and Anti have been scummy. More general facepalming at DTM.

Post 20: Responds to DTM without actually saying anything

Post 21: Prana vote, no addtional comment.

Post 22: "Why me" when JP attacks him for lurkerness. Boring obvscum deflection.

Post 23/24: "KDub admitted to probably being blocked, and there was one less kill tonight. HoS!" NEWSFLASH. If the scum kill got blocked, they probably wouldn't say "HEY GUYS, I GOT ROLEBLOCKED LAST NIGHT WHEN THERE WASN'T A KILL."




So yeah.

UnFoS
FoS, HoS, FaceoS, Gigantic Flashing Sign of Lights oS: MehPlusRawr

You skated by for three days without doing jack shit. You STILL haven't said a damned thing about Devo, Glork, Chrono, Worse/Thatguy, Bill, Dram, FC/Adumbro, or Wolfram.

You have done NOTHING to help find scum. You have put ZERO effort into aiding the town in this game.

You have only made an original case against ONE player, and just sheeped suspicion onto KDub, Anti, and general facepalming at JP/DTM.


You are scum.

[Glork]

FYI, JP, Chrono, and Glork are now

HoS

ing MPR.


Four more and we have a lynch.


It's fucking go time, guys.

[Glork]

It could be an SK, or it could be a mafia. Honestly, I don't think we have any way of knowing one way or another at this time.

Right now, I'm just focusing on finding the most likely scums and getting rid of them. I do think this town has been a bit wagony in nature, and tends to go after the most "obvious" blunder, rather than looking deeper into the issues here. I still think Anti is a less likely scum candidate (especially in light of my Meh analysis), but there are clearly players who are getting overlooked, and the people who are choosing to overlook them are probably their bedfellows.

[Glork]

I doubt that Doom is a mafia, assuming we have two mafias, as giving just one 2x kills is imba. even if we have found a way around it.

I still don't know why "Doom is a Mafia" implies two kills. I've said this like five times, but nobody seems to be listening.

N1, someone was reduced to nothingness
N2, someone was doomed
N3, someone was doomed
N4, someone was doomed

This implies ONE kill per night, possibly by different people.

I've seen at least three or four people talk about how doom gives the scums two kills, and I'm just not understanding WHY they're coming to that conclusion.