Rapture Mafia - Over!

[RedCoyote]

I'm horrible at thinking ahead about these things, so don't expect any plan to come from me. I agree with Spyrex in that pooling resources is probably for the best, but, then again, I think that, if you think you have objective, solid reasoning to do so, you should go to the Gather's Garden on your own accord. There are a lot of individual judgments going into this game, but the ultimate goal is still for the town to lynch scum.

---

vote: RedCoyote

for being number 14 on the player list

14 is my lucky number. Both me and my sister have birthdays on the 14th. She's younger than me, but hers is in July. Mine is actually coming up here in less than a month now, so I'll consider this an early present. Thanks!

---

Guys I'm in Vegas. No votes from me for a few days.

Jackpot.

Vote: xRECKONERx

---

Would you all kindly join me and

Vote: Horrordude0125

A man chooses; a slave obeys!

[RedCoyote]

Ugh, horrordude is in this game? BW with me on this rainbow over the policy lynch my friends!

Why do you want a policy lynch? And what do you mean "on this rainbow"? Is that a joke that is going over my head?

---

@Town - shape up. Participate. I thought I'd be coming back from Vegas to find multiple pages to catch up on... and instead I find 2 pages of boredom.

I don't mind these ivory tower posts condemning the town, but they need to be backed up. Why aren't you asking questions? Maybe you would have something to add, having not looked at the game for a couple of days?

---

spryex you damn .....

Elaborate, please.

---

This game needs more activity.

This might actually be worse than RECKONER. I don't even remember another post from you.

---

And I'm not even going to get a chance to use any of this tasty tasty adam that I've heard all about...

Hmmm...

[RedCoyote]

Yo Red please tell me I'm not insane and that reads "I've got adam" for no reason and help me push this train all the way out of the station.

I definitely get the same feeling, but do you think it's necessarily scummy? I can easily read it as a PR who is overanxious to get to the night phase. However...

Not really... he said that he wants to get the chance to use the adam he's HEARD about, not has.

...

this

has my eyes widening. Something about this is phrased awkwardly. It's not like he's saying that he thinks Chrono was innocent and we're making much ado over nothing. horrordude seems genuinely sure of himself. He knows what Chrono meant, and he's going to clarify it for us.

If not for this post, I think I may have left it alone. It's too juicy at this point though; I'm game.

Unvote

;

vote: Chronopie

---

Red has two posts so far: one which was his RVS vote, and this previous one.

Red, why is your vote still on me if you think sora's post is worse than mine?

I like how you drop in a post count without commenting on it. Does it bother you that I only have two posts?

I said it might be worse than yours. I didn't actually go back and check whether or not that was actually sora's first "real" post. I just did, and it looks like it was.

---

What exactly would you like me to comment on? I appreciate that you're trying to promote discussion, but let's keep the BS to a minimum.

BS? You're the one complaining about everyone else's activity, not me. When the player doesn't have anything they can point to, then I'm going to call them out for that. I think the game is moving at an adequate pace. You can comment on whatever you like.

Moreover, if you're going to use activity as a measuring stick, then I think you're going to have a hell of a time explaining how I'm more of a threat than some other players (FFFF, MehPlusRawr, killa seven, Nacho... etc).

Coyote seems to be a player who likes to make a few really long posts, quoting everything, just to seem helpful.

Due to my schedule, I don't traditionally have the time to check the website multiple times a day. If you're going to use that against me, then I'm going to hit you up with meta arguments. I don't think either of us want to go down that road.

---

# How much experience do you have playing mafia? Please include any off site forums which you play to.
# What would you say is your scum meta is?
# What would you say your town meta is?
# Someone just got quicklynched, and is town. What do you do?
# Same situation, but quicklynched is scum.
# Your #1 scum read got NK'ed last night, and you have no reads on anyone else, and it's LYLO. What do you do?

1) Over two years. http://www.epicmafia.com
2) Hmmm... I probably have more of an agenda as scum, as broad as that sounds.
3) I don't know. There's nothing I can point to that I specifically do as town that I wouldn't do otherwise. I'm more open to lynches, for sure.
4) Ask questions.
5) Ask questions.
6) Re-read.

---

I was trying to get people to post in order to bring up more opportunities to scumhunt (by posting), because, if you hadn't noticed, hardly anyone posted during those first few days. Hey, it worked! I'd rather be the center of attention than no one post in thread

I'm of the opinion you do it by asking questions and giving opinions rather than saying, "Hey, everyone needs to post". There's such an obvious irony in posts like that, you know, when you don't have anything else to point to. Why do you excuse yourself?

---

The questions weren't really scumhunting, but there's really not much else to do

Casting a vote might be something else to do.

---

I'll just come right out and say that my role PM told me I don't have any. I'm wondering if it's the same deal as the vote-transfer in the Last Will Mafia, or if certain roles get Adam each night and pass it on...or whatever.

Hmmm...

Do you think Spyrex is right? Should we focus more on pooling our resources? Should we keep any ADAM we get for our own usage?

See, guys? Now THIS is real discussion. You know, game stuff. Now let's build on this.

Well, it's very sketchy at this point. I don't think our time is best served telling each other how much ADAM we have, although I'd imagine it would be easy to lie about it. Realistically, I just don't think the town will benefit from it at this point. The scum have more information than we do now, so I think those are the only people who are really benefiting from this.

---

And reactive play doesn't do anyone any good. In fact between that and the reaction I think I done got myself a live one.

I don't want to jinx it, but he sure is acting erratic. I see nothing wrong with this wagon.

---

Mod

: What's the deal on the Nacho situation? Also I'm pretty sure that killa seven hasn't posted yet. Are you keeping tabs on who needs prods?

[RedCoyote]

Well then I'm going to push you on the same thing that I'm pushing sora for. Explain why am I the worst offender, activity-wise, when there are multiple players who have less than I do?

[RedCoyote]

Where is the misrepresentation? You're bothered by my low activity levels, yet you haven't mentioned players who have less activity than I do. Explain how you are justified in complaining about me and not others.

[RedCoyote]

Point taken, but you're avoiding the question.

Why am I more deserving?

[RedCoyote]

My posts tend to correlate with both the number of players and the activity preceding my previous post. Generally, the more there are, in both cases, the longer they tend to be. (That second link would've been much longer had there not been a word count limit. I literally remember having to prune it a great deal.)

In any case, it's not indicative of alignment. I was scum in one of those games and town in the other. It just happens that way, unfortunately, especially on D1. PYP2 might have been a little different, but that's because I mostly kept up with it.

[RedCoyote]

Anyway, I could also see a R_C wagon being appealing. His misrep of me is completely ridiculous, and then his exchange with fate only further makes him out to look bad.

R_C, to answer your misrep... you're not any worse than anyone else, you're just the first one I pointed out.

I don't know that there was much of an exchange with Fate as much as he had an exchange with himself (which I actually liked, because I think it gives me a better idea of what's going on in his head).

Anyways, glad to hear you're honest at least.

---

In fact, you've just called out Me, Fate AND Reckoner.

And no vote.

Why is that?

Like a woman on the Internet, sora's reluctance to vote completely sticks out.

---

Sorry I'm not 100% focused on this game... I have another game in Lylo with deadline in 2 days and I'm putting most of my effort towards it... If you have any questions or things you would like me to look at, I will, but I can't really be reading in-depth right now.

Why were you speaking for Chrono?

---

However, I don't really have that strong of a read on you, either. So there. Is it a bad thing to not vote for someone based on one thing that may or may not give me a strong read? No.

I'd disagree at this stage of the game. Especially in a large game like this, there's no reason to hold it back, in my opinion.

---

Sorasgoofah u bad. U reaary bad. Pwweease do good so Spyrexa cannuh finda reel scummie.

Misgivings on sora? I'm tempted to take the seat on that wagon you just left, because I don't get the same vibes at all.

---

Fate is one of these people. My money is on Kise, Zito, or Ray. Or Nikanor. It's not SOG, DoS, or kyle.

It can't be Ray either, because there's a game with both of them in it, but I think Kise is probably a good answer.

[RedCoyote]

Of course I'm having misgivings. Especially if you want to join the wagon now too.

"Of course" what? I don't understand. Are you telling me it's obvious?

---

This is what I'm talking about when I say it's hard to scumhunt. Are you telling me you can get reads on these people?

Who are you asking this to? sora, you seriously need to get out of this self-pity mode. I think it's clouding your judgment, and it may very well be clouding people's reads on you.

---

Nacho, how did you not notice this game? You were the last person to confirm. I mean, you confirmed AFTER we started. Then you come up with a vote out of the blue? Don't you care to read a little bit of the game? I'm with KoC, you need to explain yourself immediately.

[RedCoyote]

I like Spyrex's case, and I think he's got something smart cooking in that big brain of his.

---

hop onto a small wagon if you feel that the others will mislynch just fine without your vote

If you think sora is a mislynch, you should up and say it. I doubt sincerely that anyone's going to take the time (besides me, since I was called out) to put all that together in your post. I think sora happens to be a good lynch, but I like Chrono for scum too. horrordude's comment was glossed over, I think, and I wanted to hold it up by means of my vote.

How do you figure that?

Well, they always do. Although I hadn't realized, until you just brought it up here, that scum don't have access to ADAM. I'm going to reread the rules, because I was under the impression that the scum would be splicers juiced up on ADAM, but maybe that's too presumptive.

---

KoC is still probably scum.

If you're not going to bother with reading the game, especially the posts directly inquiring about you, then the town doesn't need you. I swear I will vote you if your next post isn't serious.

[RedCoyote]

MehPlusRawr, the RVS stage is traditionally a time when players make posts that are less than serious. I'm sure if you read some more of the posts on the first page, you'll see many that are as light, and lighter, than mine.

Coyote is telling others to scumhunt more than he's scumhunting himself.

How many times must I hear this? It's ironic, too, because I was only telling RECKONER to ask questions in the context that MehPlusRawr is using here. People can complain about the inactivity of others all they want, but they should have something to show in their favor. I was pointing this out in RECKONER's (and later sora's) case, not "telling others to scumhunt".

I have no idea what the quote was originally from

That's why I put the post number on all my quotes, it was from post 37, the only post he made in the game I believe.

[RedCoyote]

I'm not convinced that MehPlusRawr's less-than-stellar case is indicative of scum. I think he's probably a newer player, and I suspect he is sincerely trying to find something in a game that probably already seems overwhelming to him (the large size, mechanics, and numerous posts).

In other news...

All players may use a maximum of one active ability per/night. (mafia kill exempt)

This reads the me, the mafia kill exempt part, like the scum roles will have ADAM to use. This coupled with Kise's noting of the Ninja power at the Gather's Garden seems to indicate that the scum will be able to take advantage of ADAM in some way.

---

Red which horrordude comment?

Post 89, read the top part of my post 136 for more on how I reacted to Chrono. I don't like it, and I don't like horrordude's reluctance to clarify it despite asking him twice.

---

Unvote, Vote: MPR

Seriously, that's the worst iso-read I've ever seen.

I've got to admit this strikes me as worse than MehPlusRawr's case. This is really all you have to say about the game, bv310?

---

@RC - I declare no one as town unless there is 100% proof. I get the feeling, however, that your view of Chrono-horrordude is not as important of a point as the sora show. I mean, if you really believe in this angle that horrordude played, why aren't you going all out to convince the rest of us that we should be lynching Chrono?

Firstly, I don't think sora would be a bad lynch. I think Spyrex did well to lay out why it is sora is irrational and overreacting. Secondly, Chrono now dodging the limelight after being pushed on a little by RECKONER, Fate, and Spyrex tells me that he may have thought that he

needs

to back down. Moreover, it necessarily keeps him from being scrutinized by players who are now more focused on sora, Drives, Nacho, and MehPlusRawr. Thirdly, I'm not at all convinced that this angle is worth a damn anyways. horrordude could just have been speaking his mind, and Chrono may or may not really have any ulterior motives behind his statement. I'm not going to go all out for something I'm not very confident about, but I'm more confident about it than I am the sora situation right now. That doesn't necessarily mean I think pressuring sora is bad or anything. Like I said, sora wouldn't be a bad lynch; I just happen to think Chrono would be a better lynch.

Nacho, on the other hand, could be taking that spot here in a second.

Anywho, this is what I'm getting at with you, Red.

That's fair, but I also think you need to be more forthright about you thinking sora is a mislynch. I do agree with you though, I think mafia do try to do that, ideally.

[RedCoyote]

("I! AM! THE! DOCTOR! AND YOU! ARE! THE DALEKS!")

What?

---

What is there to say? This is the slowest start to a large game I think I've ever seen. If I were the Mod I would be really upset, because I think he put a lot of good effort into this game. Talk about welshing on your commitments. I'll call y'all out about it to, because enough people have already made blanket statements about the activity. bv310, I was looking forward to playing with you, but you've kind of been a bust. Toon Fighter's opening posts looked promising, but he's checked out. Chrono doesn't seem to care about engaging me or anyone on his wagon, despite his name being brought up quite a bit over the past few pages. Isn't animorph supposed to be a seasoned player? Could've fooled me. We all, collectively, should've asked the Mod not to allow killa seven to even sign in, given he does the exact same thing in every game I've ever seen him in. Cry has shutdown (although this may or may not be a bad thing ). MehPlusRawr and Drives are both unable to cope with this game and need to be dinged around in more Newbie and Mini games until they better understand how the game works.

At this point, it may just be best to rally around a lynch and hope that there is a lot of shooting going on tonight. If we don't thin this group, we'll never get anywhere anyway. The scum will just be content to hide behind these players. I'm not really comfortable with players like RECKONER, Chrono, or KoC, but they're basically able to sit back and (rightfully) moan about the lack of activity.

Unvote; vote: sorasgoof

I'm willing to lynch the top four vote getters, despite my instincts telling me that MehPlusRawr and Drives are probably town. They've proven themselves anti-town so far.

As for anyone I called out... prove me wrong. Don't be like Drives, you know, you're inevitably doomed for the rest of the game. Here's how you redeem yourself:

1) If you haven't moved your vote in a while, move it or justify it for yourself and for all of us.
2) Take 10-20 minutes to read over the last 3 pages (or more).
3) Select a few quotes over those last pages you've read and question who said them. They can be something that sounds townie or something that sounds scummy, just try to give a bankable opinion.
4) Check back within 24-48 hours.
5) Either continue with what you've started, start something new, or keep bothering the players you are trying to get input from.

Okay? Use your Sunday afternoon to make good on your commitment to this game. Follow those easy steps and you'll be back on top in no time.

[RedCoyote]

KoC, I agree with you that I give a thumbs down to Nacho, but you sure are taking that one vote pretty hard.

Then again, it's hard to imagine how Fate could rationalize jumping aboard a wagon started with no reasoning whatsoever. That would kind of upset me too.

[RedCoyote]

To be honest, the Chronopie wagon makes zero sense to me. @RedCoyote, what makes a Chronopie lynch more appealing than any of the other three wagons?

Sorry I missed this.

Chrono made a strange comment about ADAM that was seemingly okay on the outside until horrordude defended him completely out of the blue. horrordude has made, like, three posts in this game. One was confirming, his last one was asking if there was anything he should respond to, and the one inbetween these two posts was this:

Yo Red please tell me I'm not insane and that reads "I've got adam" for no reason and help me push this train all the way out of the station.

Not really... [Chrono] said that he wants to get the chance to use the adam he's HEARD about, not has.

Ever since horrordude made this uncalled for post, he has effectively disappeared when I asked him to elaborate. Chrono has completely dodged me, despite the fact that I asked him to comment on it. Chrono went from having a strong voice in the town to a meek one (more on this later in the post I'm writing here), and I contend that all of this isn't a coincidence. Maybe horrordude abandoning the game is par for the course, but I think that Chrono's vauge, aimless posts as of late are intentional. He understands that he needs to stay more under the radar, and if a player like sora or a bunch of lurkers are going to take all the heat in this game, hell, why should he knock that?

That's not to say sora or the lurkers don't deserve a tongue lashing and/or lynching, but I just think there might be something deeper here than we are being led to believe.

---

Hey it got Nacho to post more content. I'd say that was one the most pro-town things I've done all day.

This is true. I guess what worries me now is that I was (and still kind of am) frustrated with Nacho at this point, but it's getting to where KoC is going way over-the-top with his comments. Seemingly every post he's made in the past 4-5 days has been solely about Nacho. I'm worried that he's becoming too fixated on it for a townie.

---

I'd be up for lynching one of the lurkers, or anyone at this point. Activity level is shocking.

We're only just out of RVS. It's been 12 days. (ofc deadline isn't for another 4 weeks.)

What have you had to say about Nacho's entry into the game? Nothing.
What do you have to say about you and Drives erronously taking KoC's claim seriously? Nothing.
What do you have to say about Drives' defeatism? Nothing.

This is revealing, I think:

I find myself agreeing with reckoner, spyre et al. in this game. I dislike sheep, but I can see myself becoming one

So don't try to feed us this line that there is nothing going on, and

especially

don't try to feed us this line that we're "just out of the RVS". I'll wage dollars to donuts that you're more clever than you're letting on. That's exactly what Drives did ("there's nothing going on", "we're barely out of RVS"), only he was more blunt about it. The difference between my opinion on Drives and you? I think Drives is town.

---

2)R_C, I'm sorry to have disappointed you so far. I'll try to get better.

No worries. If your Internet is down, there's nothing much you can do. If you keep up with the game then everything will be hunky-dory again.

---

Vote: CryMeARiver

Has done nothing but be jokey all day, but jumps at the chance to vote Drives, who is stupid but not necessarily scum.

This vote is fine, but, then again, you could've voted just about anyone and I would've said the same thing.

Thank you (and don) for replacing in.

---

I'm willing to eat hats if Drives is scum. He reeks town in that way that only town can reek.

I think Drives is town as well. MehPlusRawr is, I would say, a safe bet for town, too.

It's the players like Chrono that tickle my fancy.

I won't go as far as to say that I can't lynch Drives, not in a game like this. If this were a smaller game, then by all means we'll try to give Drives a hand, but this is a little different.

Let's keep it within the proper context though. There are so many players I'd like to see taken out over someone like Drives that it's hard to imagine a circumstance where I'd get on his wagon willingly.

[RedCoyote]

I've only read the first part of your WoT, and then skimmed down to see if you had voted Chrono instead.

You haz some splainin to do.

I'm game, do you think we can pull it off?

The impression I'm getting is that Chrono is liked by the majority of people here and they don't see where I'm coming from (that wouldn't be the first time, lol).

I moved to sora because, one, I like his lynch and the wagon that was created on him, and two, I don't think we can pull a Chrono lynch off.

Given that we have the time to push it, I'm more than happy to get back on board.

Unvote; vote: Chronopie

What worries me is your vote is on soras and he posted in #356, anything to say about that?

I can see it go both ways. sora looks disheartened, as would I if I was in his situation right now. You have the added benefit of being with sora in another ongoing game, so maybe you have a little more insight into his meta.

I think Spyrex's case is more concrete than my inkling that sora might be town though. I get the feeling as though you think sora is more townie than I do.

---

I happen to believe that Sora/Lurkers are our best lynch for today, the 'Vague, Aimless posts' are basically me just chiming in with my 2 cents on the game state. I have no idea why Horrordude did what he did, and, if anything, has made me look scummier by implication. Staying under the radar is just a side effect of me having little else to say.

I don't buy that. When this game began, you were pumped and I think you had a lot to say. When someone questioned one statement you had, you fought back some, and then began to disappear as soon as sora got into the game. What's more, I wanted to talk about you more, directly mentioning you, and you ignored me, choosing to be just another voice in the crowd of, "where's the participation?" "Drives, that's horrible!" "MehPlusRawr, you need to read more!" etc etc.

I've had nothing to say on Nacho so far, because they wasn't alot to say. He hadn't noticed the game, apologised, posts some minor analysis, posts some fluff, posts some more content, fluff, V/LA announcement.
-
KoC's claim was terribad for anyone that hasn't seen the new Dr. Who series, so was a fair assumption to make. However, I never considered it voteworthy, and made a jokey reference to it. i.e not seriously.
-
Drives's defeatism... 'Screw it, I'm a townie that's going to die' bleh, I feel like that in some games. Probably too early for Drives to be posting in such manner though.

I agree with Fate. You having "nothing to say" about Nacho seems awkward. Either you think Nacho is starting well or he isn't. Either you think KoC is going crazy or he's justified. Either you think Drives is acting townie or he isn't.

But 3-5 players can not carry an entire 18 player game.
-
Subtract the Jokes, and the fluff, and there's probably only about 1-2 pages of content. therefore other (more active) games, given a similar length of time, have much more content available to peruse. Therefore, we are, relatively speaking, barely out of RVS

Excuses, excuses. I just gave you some hot topics. DS just voted Cry for crap that happened during, what you call, "the jokes and fluff". If you truly think Cry is immune from suspicion for these things, then you need to talk about that. Instead, here you are, arguing with me over how many active players there are, how many pages of content there are, and why it's not your fault that any of this is happening.

I've been a good boy, RC! I make posts! Who cares about content? We're just out of the RVS stage, so chill out. Let's focus on the lurkers. Don't pay attention to me.

---

...

Get out.

Now this is really starting to get irritating. Can you talk about one thing that isn't Nacho or Dr. Who?

[RedCoyote]

Could you explain the scummyness of my post?

You're speaking on another player's behalf. If you disagree with Spyrex's interpretation, then be all means have at him. The way you come at it though, it's more like you're sticking up for Chrono than anything else.

Another way for you to phrase your sentiments may have been, "Spyrex, why did you not accept Chrono's explanation?", or "I disagree. I thought Chrono was pretty clear."

Instead of this, you tell us what Chrono meant as though you had an authority to speak for him.

I didn't like the word-twisting from Spyrex so I felt like I needed to comment on it and clarify what my thoughts on the matter were.

Okay, that's fine. I assumed this is what you were going for, but it felt weird when you and Chrono ducked my questions about it.

First of all, the post wasn't uncalled for. People were insinuating that because Chrono mentioned ADAM, he was scum. I didn't think that, so I came to his defense.

When I say uncalled for, I don't mean in a negative sense. I just mean it was unexpected and out of the blue. You've clarified it for me, so I'm glad you made this post.

I also agree with your lynch list (except for MehPlusRawr).

[RedCoyote]

Mod

, I'm going to be on V/LA at least until the end of the week.

Noted

[RedCoyote]

Also, could you please prod animorph?

[RedCoyote]

Someone vote me so I can hammer myself. This town deserves to lose.

sora, in case you haven't realized, there are significantly more town in a game than there are scum. It stands to reason that town get voted a hell of a lot more than scum do, and they get lynched the first day even more often. This kind of poor sportsmanship and self-pity deserves to be checked at the door. If you can't handle people attacking you (surprise, some of your attackers were scum), then this isn't the game for you. It's frustrating when you get attacked as a townie, but that's the way the game works sometimes. You chin up and fight on.

On that same note, the build up against Chrono is a blueprint on how to handle pressure. He did exactly the opposite of what sora did, which is he kept a calm head and took it like a pro. Especially in the face of Fate unjustifiably blowing up at him in some of his posts. I'm delightfully surprised that Chrono was able to keep his cool, because I don't know if I could've.

Anyways, all this being said, I think I buy Big Daddy as a Doctor role. Heaven knows I hypnotized Big Daddys all the time. I can understand people not buying it, so I can't honestly get mad if he does still get lynched. Fate makes a great point about sora staying quiet during KoC's angry spell, but I'm still going to go with it. I'm actually a little surprised Fate was the one to bring this up, because I figured he had a fairly strong of a townsora read.

In other news, I like this Toon Fighter surge. Here's a player who has been eerily quiet, having dropped off in quality significantly from earlier posts that I thought were okay. This I love especially, and I feel much better about horrordude with him making active commentary on the game.

I still like Kise, Spyrex, and Fate, and anyone with the balls to vote Toon or Drives (even though I disagree with scumDrives) in the face of, "Chrono is probably town, so let's retreat back to sora".

Unvote; vote: Toon Fighter

I'd also support a Cry lynch (I'd still support quite a few lynches, but Cry and Toon are the two I think are the most realistic).

Activity check = Drives, MehPlusRawr, and Cry haven't posted since Thursday afternoon, but MehPlusRawr claimed V/LA until today.

[RedCoyote]

I fail to see how being able to use Hypnotise on Big Daddies makes them more likely as a doctor role.

Because then they protect you (the main character). They're also constantly protecting Little Sisters. Ultimately, I think, that's their role in Bioshock. Can you think of a more fitting character that would be a protector? The only other person I think it could be would be the Russian chick.

---

It's comments like this that will continue to give motivation for people (town & scum alike) to mislynch him. I have a feeling you believe he's town, so if you really want to help the town out, best thing to do is neglect from saying anything to leave the mislynch doors open.

To be honest, his attitude doesn't help matters. How can I really blame a wagon for lynching a player who is admittingly anti-town, self-pitiful, and negative? Like Spyrex says, it would be so, so nice to lynch him out of spite. It really would, you know, since he's effectively useless to us now. I can't stand that whole, "Town deserves to lose!" nonsense.

---

tl;dr- every game I get a lot of suspicion. I don't think I deserve it.

Poor you. Try a different playstyle then.

[RedCoyote]

I don't find that hard to believe.

[RedCoyote]

Enough with the AtEs. Man up and actually try to defend yourself instead of whining about how everyone's playing and how everyone's against you.

I will, however, support a TF wagon.

Do you buy sora's claim, or do you think Toon is an okay/better lynch?

---

I knwo I have been lurking, but I have been busy, and I bet I am not the one with less posts on this game.

Do you think the one with "less" posts should be lynched today?

---

I'll get lynched if I'm wrong about him, fuck it. I'm not trying to steal Nacho's swagger with the secrecy, but now I believe that maybe, just maybe, I understand what he is relating to his suspicion of KoC -- let me go on record by saying I myself do not find KoC suspicious. With bv, this isn't a masked grudge lynch or PL. Nothing trivial, I promise. This isn't a bus or some usurper ploy, nor a lyncher thing.

I had an inkling, yes. His flip from sora to Toon seemed a little strange. I want to hear more from him before I make any rash decisions though.

---

It isn't ToonFighter. Seriously, that's a crackhead wagon, and we don't do crackhead wagons here.

I don't get this, "crackhead" wagon? I'll go back and make a case for Toon if necessary. I think we're on to something with him.

---

its not my fault people keep flaking off wagons.

I agree with this, to an extent. Do you think the Chrono/sora wagon should've been carried through to the end?

[RedCoyote]

Enough with the AtEs. Man up and actually try to defend yourself instead of whining about how everyone's playing and how everyone's against you.

I will, however, support a TF wagon.

Do you buy sora's claim, or do you think Toon is an okay/better lynch?

---

I knwo I have been lurking, but I have been busy, and I bet I am not the one with less posts on this game.

Do you think the one with "less" posts should be lynched today?

---

I'll get lynched if I'm wrong about him, fuck it. I'm not trying to steal Nacho's swagger with the secrecy, but now I believe that maybe, just maybe, I understand what he is relating to his suspicion of KoC -- let me go on record by saying I myself do not find KoC suspicious. With bv, this isn't a masked grudge lynch or PL. Nothing trivial, I promise. This isn't a bus or some usurper ploy, nor a lyncher thing.

I had an inkling, yes. His flip from sora to Toon seemed a little strange. I want to hear more from him before I make any rash decisions though.

---

It isn't ToonFighter. Seriously, that's a crackhead wagon, and we don't do crackhead wagons here.

I don't get this, "crackhead" wagon? I'll go back and make a case for Toon if necessary. I think we're on to something with him.

---

its not my fault people keep flaking off wagons.

I agree with this to an extent. Do you think the Chrono/sora wagon should've been carried through to the end?

[RedCoyote]

Whoa, back up. Fate, you were the main proponent of stopping the Chrono wagon. Are you changing your mind?

And what do you mean what the point of the question is? don specifically said people were flaking off of wagons, I want to know if he thinks either the sora or the Chrono wagons shouldn't have been abandoned.

I am kind of dissatisfied with this outcome, yeah. I wouldn't have jumped back on sora personally. I think everyone who did is suspect.

[RedCoyote]

More to the point, Fate, you have been kind of freaking out for at least the latter half of today with all your caps and screaming and what not.

Are you sided with the town?

[RedCoyote]

Just what we need, Kise. Another wagon. XD

Mod

please prod Drives.

There are a few other things I want to respond to, but I don't quite have the time right this second. Don't worry though, I will soon. I won't give a date like the other RC (;)) in case something comes up, but rest assured I've got this game on my mind.

[RedCoyote]

Don't ask to write cases. Just do it.

Fair enough. Actually, I like this post, Nacho. I like you punching back at me; it shows that you care.

Why Toon Figher is a great D1 lynch

so... many... posts by the same person...

unvote, vote: chronopie

, for spamming our game -.-

First post in the game. It's interesting he comes after Chrono instead of Cry, but I'm content with it because Chrono becomes a good target.

I actually like his post 225. Some people have a problem with him sticking to Chrono, but I thought Chrono was the better lynch of the time as well. His unwillingness to address soras, or anyone else for that matter, is kind of suspect in retrospect.

@ everyone: sorry for the lurking. Will try to be more active in the future.

Third post, another excuse for lurking. At this point it just sounds like he's trying to remain relevant when in reality he doesn't care. He doesn't care if Chrono gets lynched or not, and he doesn't really care if Chrono answers him or not. He makes a lame attempt at interrogating Chrono, but it you get the feeling like he's not going to follow up on it anyways. Let's see if he proves me wrong? (Hint: He doesn't)

toon fighter= terribad.

what do you mean with this?

It means he's on to you. Funny how this catches your attention, when someone suggests we looking into you deeper, and not anything else that is going on in the game. In other words, Toon has shown little passion in the game outside of a self-interested one. If anything, he should be agreeing with don here. He should be saying, "I know, don. I've been busy with X lately. I promise to make a post within the next couple of days that explains why I'm holding onto my original vote and what I think about other players in the game".

Huh? I thought chrono would be dead by now. Ok.

unvote

.

Will read the game and post again at a later time.

Let me translate this:

Huh? I thought Chrono would be lynched so I wouldn't have to pretend like I care about the town anymore. Ok.

Well, let me try more stalling tactics, and hopefully I'll still be able to fool you suckers.

While I somewhat agree with Toon's 546, he hasn't really bothered to explain why it is he feels this way. No only the claim, but why he never suspected soras to begin with. I wonder if he suspect Spyrex? If only he had ever mentioned Spyrex, or

anyone

aside from soras and Chrono by the 22nd page in the game.

Why the bandwagon on me?

The first thing out of Toon's mouth: self-interest.

Why me? = Fry me.

The only time Toon shows any passion for the game is when someone says they aren't a fan of his activity. If he were honest he would agree with them, because his activity has been crap. Aside from Drives, I think, Toon is likely the worst in the game activity-wise.

vote: don_johnson

. Will read more of his posts and post later.

No you won't. You won't read his posts because you don't care, so there's no point in lieing about it. You're just voting him because He had the audacity to speak the truth to you.

I have not seen any real justification on WHY you are voting me after my post yesterday. Did I say something wrong? What was it? Am I still the scummiest person in this game? Please answer me, because I am waiting for something. People ask what is WRONG with the wagon on me, I ask, what is RIGHT.

More complete, unadulterated self-interest. He shows absolutely no interest in the direction of the town. His contributions amount to, "Hmmm I still like my vote" and "I'll vote don and figure out why later".

[RedCoyote]

Why?

Because it was a weak, kneejerk reaction.

---

WHAT? How does hypnotizing a Big Daddy make it a doctor at all??

lmao @ Reck 566. I feel sorry for you, you poor drunken bastard. And I kind of agree with you about sora's fakeclaim seeming fabricated. I've seen a lot of fakeclaims in my day and that one just doesn't seem believable for some reason. RC's 568 helps out some, but KoC's 575 crushes it.

Like I said, I can see it working. I'm not saying I blame those who would argue that there's no way a Big Daddy can be a Doctor, because there's a good argument against it, but I can't see many other potential roles suited for the Doctor ability. Tenenbaum perhaps being the only other option.

I could easily see some sort of system where Big Daddies are Doctors who need ADAM to protect, and Little Sisters are Cops (they poke people with the ADAM needle to find out whether they are a scum splicer or not?). This is pretty speculative, but on D1, I don't think we should take the chance on lynching sora personally.

---

Really D_J? What possible motivation could you see to requesting a modkill? The ONLY thing you'll accomplish here is making yourself tomorrow's lynch after your scumbuddy flips.

To be honest, I don't have much of a problem with don's request. This falls in line with his townmeta for one, and two, Cry said he was going to replace out. Cry needs to make up his mind. He can't say that he wants to replace out and then continue to vote and post. That's ridiculous.

Cry, make up your mind.

---

I'm still in the game aren't I? So fuck off

A bit touchy, are we?

---

honestly, i'm not sure why everyones panties are in a bunch. i was criticized for not participating(even though i have more posts in a week than many players have since the thread opened) and as soon as i grab the spotlight there's a really poorly thought out wagon building on me. i am amazed that noone sees the hypocrisy in how this wagon got started.

I empathize. I don't know what people see in you, honestly. I think you just blew their mind with your request, but Toon has been getting off scott free. Players like RECKONER, soras, KoC, and Reaper, I think, are actively trying to find reasons not to lynch Toon at this point.

---

So you requested a modkill because you're too lazy to push for an actual lynch and would rather have the mod do it for you?

I'd say he has been pushing a lynch. I don't get all the Toon love coming from the players I listed above.

---

I am ambivalent about ToonFighter.

Not good enough of a reason. This is D1.

---

tl;dr = horrordude is a bad lynch. don is a bad lynch. Toon is a great lynch. bv310 is a good lynch.

[RedCoyote]

Except I did read it. And nowhere did you give a reason that horrodude was a bad lynch.

What! My plans... thwarted by Fate.

Seriously, I've said in previous posts how I've absolutely loved some of horrordude's posts after he came back from lurking earlier in the day. Would you like me to drag them up for you? He shouldn't have been put into my tl;dr section because you're right; I didn't mention him in those specific posts. I have mentioned him before though, and I've already decided that he would not make a good D1 lynch (psst... that means you can go ahead and vote toon again ).

[RedCoyote]

This whole thing is getting blown out of proportion, and DJ is now acting like a cross between newbtown and obvscum. I sincerely doubt scum would choose either of those routes, so I'm no longer positive about my vote about him.

Unvote

. I wash my hands of lynching what I now believe to be a townie on Day 1, and I believe the quick-hops onto this wagon will help us find scum. There is no doubt in my mind that there are opportunistic scum on this wagon.

I've quoted the above because it felt like a genuine town reaction to the sudden push on don towards the end of the day. Of course it was genuine, so I'm just trying to make a point.

Given Toon's flip, I've become very interested in those who attempted to shift the focus to don, who has become even more town looking to me. Among these players are: Chrono, RECKONER, horrordude, Cry, bv310, and sora.

Now I'll just bet you there are one or two more splicers in that group. I feel okay about horrordude and Chrono for now.

sora, what did you do last night?

RECKONER's move could be seen as rational, because he went back and forth on Toon and was probably sincerely weighing Toon's actions in his mind.

Right now I'm leaning toward a vote on Cry or bv310, so I don't think I'd be opposed to either one.

Vote: CryMeARiver

[RedCoyote]

I'm surprised as hell R_C is alive after that rock solid case on Toon Fighter (I must say it was so good

RC... I'm so proud.

RC is town *GASP* moreso I am a proud sheep right here

<3 <3 <3

---

Already not liking Diacria. He hasn't read the thread yet, but he's voting CMAR. Even more of a blatant bandwagon than Fate and RECKONER earlier in the game.

I actually think this is a good point. "What's going on? Oh yeah, let me vote with you."

That said, it's going to take more than that to get me to throw out my Drives read.

You also said you protected Kise. I mean, did you use ADAM or can you specify? I don't want to get you in trouble with the Mod, I just want more information. I'm also trying to figure out why you weren't shot.

---

So I read the Bioshock wiki (haven't played either of the games) and Splicers are one out of three enemy types. There is also Big Daddies (interesting)

That's probably a little confusing, the Big Daddy part. Big Daddies are

technically

enemies, but they don't have to be.

Think of them like Aeons (from FFX, I don't know if this is a consistent theme throughout the series or not). Aeons are like optional, sidequest battles that you don't necessarily have to fight, but it makes the game a hell of a lot easier if you do.

Big Daddies are similar in that they'll leave you alone if you leave them alone. You do have to fight them to advance the game though, which hadn't occured to me when I first was considering sora's claim.

Hmmm...

I had forgotten that Big Daddies are effectively enemies until you get the Little Sister.

Then again, even the sora-attackers have to admit the Big Daddies are even less sided with the Splicers than they are with you.

sora, are you sided with the town or are you a third-party?

---

I agree with the first paragraph, disagree with the second.

You wouldn't have to twist my arm to get me on the RECKONER wagon, but I think there are better targets alive right now.

---

And why is there an early BW on CMAR?

What the heck kind of a post is this, horrordude?

---

If you will reread, I did not try to shift anything. He was attacking me and trying to get the mod to modkill me and I was defending my self and wondering about his motive for me to be modkilled.

I will give you credit for not revoting don today. I won't argue with you over whether or not you were right to attack don for calling you out after you had tried to replace out, but I want to know if you are going to continue playing this game or not. I think you owe the game that much, regardless of your alignment.

As a believer of soras claim, it's kind of clear to me that they would leave him alive since he makes for a good mislynch and the chances of him protecting the person that they target with this many people alive is slim to none.

Does anyone read this and go, "I wonder if someone on the Splicer team told him to say that"?

[RedCoyote]

You know what I just realized? We're playing this game as citizens of Rapture, not as though we are the main character to the actual video game itself. In the video game, you play as an outsider (not altogether an outsider, but that gets into spoiler territory) who is coming into Rapture. In other words I'm still in the "let's not lynch sora" boat for now.

---

Oh yeah, RC... Where are the townish horrordude posts you found?

Post 655, 645, 508, what he had to say about sora was fine with me, and, of course, the post that started it all was 405. Ever since 405 I've liked his contributions a lot more.

Moreover, I think don is probably good to point out the connection between DS and horrordude. I didn't much care for DS being anti-horrordude yesterday, but I don't know yet if it's something that should be lynchworthy.

---

Has everyone checked in?

We still need to hear from bv310 and this WingsOWisdom person. More KoC and DS wouldn't hurt either.

---

Just so you know, Diacria, Drives wasn't exactly a favorite of ours... meaning you've got work to do, buddy.

Speak for yourself.

---

It's a "Why the hell do we have like 5 votes on one person when only one person presented a semi-decent case?" type of post.

Fair enough. I challenge you to call someone (or multiple people) out though.

[RedCoyote]

Sorry, that was so hypocritical that I had to make sure that I read that correctly... You just accused ME of contentless posting? You, who spent 10 posts bitching about my failure to provide a case on you but didn't really feel like providing a case on anyone else. You, who kept your vote on an UNCOUNTERCLAIMED DOCTOR most of yesterday because the claim sounded wrong. You, who failed to comment AT ALL about the wagon yesterday that lynched scum aside from saying that you were "ambivalent" about the lynch. You, whose 57 posts contain all of about 5 content-filled ones. You, who've been using my refusal to state a case on you as an excuse TO ACTIVELY LURK THE WHOLE DAMN GAME, actually have the nerve to say that my posts lack content? You know, you're probably the most ballsy scum I've played yet. Not smart, but definitely ballsy.

[_] Not Told
[

X

] TOLD

Mod

, can we get a prod on our favorites bv310 (I know he's been online since Day 2) and WingsOWisdom?

[RedCoyote]

Who the hell is WingsOwisdom? Did he replace someone or has he always been non-existant?

Replaced MehPlusRawr.

---

My alternate choice for a lynch is Soras.

Toon had 12 posts, 2 were a double-post, and one was early RVS. That leaves 10.

2 of those (20%) were defending Soras. Also claimed doc survives night (admittedly has WIFOM problems.)

Let me ask you something, DS. Do you think sora is just making his role/flavor up, he's actually a Big Daddy that is scum, is a scum Doctor, or is some mixture of any of these?

---

9 - Chronopie: (Toon Fighter, Fate, RedCoyote, xRECKONERx, DeathSauce, SpyreX, horrordude0215, don_johnson, ReaperCharlie)

Minus the town people and known scum...
Reck, Deathsauce, Horror, (DJ?).
Probably 2 scum in those.

Are you labeling RECKONER as known scum or town here?

I would say, of that wagon, RECKONER is probably most likely to flip scum though. This alone is good enough reason to

unvote

and

vote: xRECKONERx

.

I'm going back and forth on sora though. I keep having these realizations. My latest one being that he could just be making all of this up.

I really want to hear more from Spyrex though. I feel like he's got something to tell us.

[RedCoyote]

Also, bv310 has absolutely got to make a real post. I understand computer issues, but it is also convenient for him that he's having this much trouble staying active in a time that, I think, is not very good for him.

[RedCoyote]

RC, does that mean you disagree with my analysis of horrordude's posts? Also, I don't really see how 508 is a protown post at all. That's lazy wagon hopping; just because it was on scum doesn't make it any less scummy. Let's not forget the possibility of two scum teams here.

Sorry, Nacho. I missed this post.

Yes, I do disagree with your analysis of horrordude's posts. He is a very big townread for me at the moment. Post 508 is town because he votes scum. How many times did horrordude switch his vote? 2 or 3? If it's more than that then I may look at it again.

Also, two scum teams is a bit of a reach. How familiar are you with Bioshock? In other words, who would the other scumteam be?

---

Whoa whoa whoa RC, what? TOON FIGHTA was the scum on the Chrono wagon. xRECKx can still be town unless you have some reason for two scum to be on that lynch.

I don't think it's unheard of. Chrono is likely townie, after all.

Still, I get your concern. I misread Dia's post. It's still hard for me to accept that Reaper is the dead townie, lol. Talk about your out of the blue scumkills.

I don't think KoC is a bad lynch. I just think I'd rather vote someone who was on don earlier: Chrono, RECKONER, horrordude, Cry, bv310, and sora.

I've stated that I like Chrono and horrordude for town, and that I don't think we should lynch sora today.

My lynch will preferably be RECKONER, Cry, or bv310 today. I'm not going to sit here and defend KoC or attack his voters, but that's just not where I think we should focus.

---

AtE isn't inherently scummy fyi

But it is inherently anti-town.

---

I do find the following town:
Dicaria

Hmmmm...

Weren't you just voting him? I mean, what happened?

Funnily enough, I was about to say that I thought this post was pretty good, but now I'm not sure. Your read on Drives/Dia has been very strange this game.

[RedCoyote]

Is RECKONER voting himself? I know I moved my vote to him though.

[RedCoyote]

A Little Sister backup... hmmmm.

Little Sister is almost undoubtedly a role in the game, so I guess, from that perspective, it probably isn't hard to believe that there could be a backup. From a flavor point of view, KoC's post makes sense. I guess the most interesting tidbit is that he cannot use or own ADAM.

There are two ways to look at that. One way is that KoC throws this in there to make it like, "I don't get any ADAM so... don't try to investigate me or anything", which sounds very sneaky. The other way to look at it is Little Sister's really don't use ADAM as far as I know (video game wise), they just collect it. So, it's like, if KoC made it up, that's really a clever thing to make up. I think I take the latter point of view, ultimately.

With one caveat.

KoC, given that you are a Backup Little Sister, and, I'm assuming, you're claiming town, don't you have to believe that a Big Daddy would have to be town? Putting aside whether or not sora is a Big Daddy, wouldn't you think, from your role's perspective, a Big Daddy would have to be a town role?

In other news, RECKONER's increasing hostility is very offputting. Either he's acting out in frustration, or he's pretending to be anger-filled in order to scare off potential voters. His exponential growth in emotional manipulation over what I would say is a relatively soft wagon on him is really telling though. I would urge those voting KoC to seriously consider RECKONER.

As a secondary possibility, bv310 has been given more than ample time to explain himself and give his thoughts on this game. Laptop or no, he would make a good lynch. I probably like Cry a little bit more than I did at the beginning of the day, so I would say RECKONER or bv310 would be the way to go.

[RedCoyote]

A Little Sister backup... hmmmm.

Little Sister is almost undoubtedly a role in the game, so I guess, from that perspective, it probably isn't hard to believe that there could be a backup. From a flavor point of view, KoC's post makes sense. I guess the most interesting tidbit is that he cannot use or own ADAM.

There are two ways to look at that. One way is that KoC throws this in there to make it like, "I don't get any ADAM so... don't try to investigate me or anything", which sounds very sneaky. The other way to look at it is Little Sisters really don't use ADAM as far as I know (video game wise), they just collect it. So, it's like, if KoC made it up, that's really a clever thing to make up. I think I take the latter point of view, ultimately.

With one caveat.

KoC, given that you are a Backup Little Sister, and, I'm assuming, you're claiming town, don't you have to believe that a Big Daddy would have to be town? Putting aside whether or not sora is a Big Daddy, wouldn't you think, from your role's perspective, a Big Daddy would have to be a town role?

In other news, RECKONER's increasing hostility is very offputting. Either he's acting out in frustration, or he's pretending to be anger-filled in order to scare off potential voters. His exponential growth in emotional manipulation over what I would say is a relatively soft wagon on him is really telling though. I would urge those voting KoC to seriously consider RECKONER.

As a secondary possibility, bv310 has been given more than ample time to explain himself and give his thoughts on this game. Laptop or no, he would make a good lynch. I probably like Cry a little bit more than I did at the beginning of the day, so I would say RECKONER or bv310 would be the way to go.

[RedCoyote]

DS, he is telling the truth about the collect thing. If that's all your vote is based on, then it isn't technically correct. I see where you're coming from logically, but KoC seemed careful to use the words "own" and "use" specifically. Little Sisters in the game do not own or use ADAM, as KoC says, they collect it for Gather's Gardens.

[RedCoyote]

This game has a lot of prod-alicious peoples. No idea about the flavor and all that for KoC and in general for Rapture. Can someone explain it to me?

?

Try read the last five or six posts before this one. KoC explained it pretty well.

Little Sisters collect ADAM from dead Splicers (usually when the main character kills them, sometimes when the Big Daddy kills them) in the actual game. That ADAM is taken to Gather's Gardens across Rapture.

---

I don't have any reason not to believe the claim. However, if you believe that he is town, you must also believe I'm town. It really goes hand in hand.

Not necessarily. I mean, yeah, they make a lot of sense together. Big Daddies are undoubtedly a role in this game, and they're almost assuredly town, but I'm not sold that that makes you what you say your are. A Big Daddy is the most easily recognizable character from the Bioshock universe. Unless you've been living under a rock, or are completely and totally removed from the video game scene, the Big Daddy is a well known persona. In other words, if concoting a fake claim, that would be the most logical.

KoC's claim is a little more detailed, which, I think, gives it more credence, but it has absolutely nothing to do with you.

sora, I think you should worry less about how townie you look and more about who is scum. You say Dia is a top lynch candidate, but why? Because of a piggybacking vote he made earlier? Okay, but more things have happened since. Have you ever commented on the idea that the don/Chrono/Toon wagons should be analyzed?

People that need to make decent posts about more in this game than just "has KoC been lynched yet?"

: Nacho, Fate, Dia, Chrono, Cry, don, horrordude, Kise, bv310, WingsOWisdom (replacement)

People that need prods

: bv310, don, Kise

[RedCoyote]

don, I take it you don't buy the claim. Why do you think it's better to lynch KoC than someone who tried to protect Toon yesterday (e.g. bv310, or possibly RECKONER)?

RECKONER, do you really think don is scummy?

KoC, I agree with Fate. Can you play a little offense here? Because while I think your wagon had some merit at one point (although never enough for a lynch, imo), now that you've claimed I think there's far less of a case against you over the three candidates I've put the spotlight on this entire day (once more for those who haven't been following good enough, bv310, RECKONER, and Cry. Check back for more as to the why those three but if you want me to elaborate on any of them specifically then just ask). don, DS, Dia, and Spyrex have all sort of addressed your claim v.s. their vote, but they've really fallen short of selling to me why it is either this claim should be overlooked in favor of some big reasoning against KoC or why this claim is fake. The only major point I can see against you is your self-interested/defensiveness, but I think that's pretty weak in comparison to the direction we should be going.

[RedCoyote]

Unvote; vote: bv310

[RedCoyote]

I don't see bv310's post as a towntell, like, at all. Drives was a little bit different, because it was clear that he didn't know what the hell he was doing. bv310, I don't think, would be this distant and indifferent as town.

That said, I'm still plenty game for lynching RECKONER or Cry. I'm still not seeing what makes KoC a great lynch, post-claim. Some (Nacho, Fate) have pointed out that it would be easy to claim a backup to a popular role, because that kind of takes the pressure off indirectly. To that I say, the Big Daddy claim has got to be just as, if not moreso, of a flimsy claim than KoC's claim.

The reason I keep going back to KoC is the specific information he put in. He made it clear that he does not use ADAM. It would've been so easy to just say, "I'm a Little Sister backup and if a Little Sister dies I get 2 ADAM every day". So when I see the KoC wagon I just think, why not vote sora? The claim seems weaker, it could be unbelievable, and sora wasn't killed last night.

[RedCoyote]

FFFFF this game GOD how much longer.

I don't know, Fate and Dia want to keep bv310 alive. They see a big towntells with him for some reason. There are probably other people not voting bv310, but since the Mod only gives us 1 vote count a week I don't remember their names. XD

Worst case scenario, bv310 is actually a VT, but we're that much closer to finding the real scum who used don's unorthodox methods to distract the town from Toon.

[RedCoyote]

Hm. I don't really have anything to offer the town other than I'm glad that Fate doesn't have a guilty on me. It's a shame to see Dia go as I thought he was a pretty safe bet for town, but Drives also basically claimed VT during D1.

RECKONER and sora are probably on the top of my list now. Cry not being on the bv lynch is probably null, but I can't help but give him a bit of townie credit for it. I don't really get his post 1102 though. What is the astricks for?

I would like to hear from others, namely horrordude and Spyrex.

Chrono, RECKONER, and Nacho are being deliciously vague. Although I think Kise figured out why Nacho might be voting him, I'll ask Nacho straight up if it has to do with the bv310 flip.

Vote: xRECKONERx

This could be just a placeholder, but it could be a solid position. It all depends on how the day begins to unfold. I want sora to persuade me not to switch my vote to him in the next post I make, because this is the second day he survived post-claim. The only thing going in his favor is that KoC is still alive, but why would the mafia waste a kill on a supposed backup if they can take out a Doctor anyways? It doesn't add up to me, sora, and you've got to sell yourself. I don't want to just hear, "Wow, town u r idiots if u lynch me!!!", either; you'll have to dig deeper than that.

[RedCoyote]

Unvote; vote: sorasgoof

Thank you for the supposed protection, but you can't buy me off with something like that. I really, really wanted some analysis from you, and I don't know why that's so much to ask.

horrordude's stock fell a bit. Not only can I not generally stand that "go back a read" crap, but the day just started and already horrordude is too lazy to give any analysis beyond still wanting to lynch don... for reasons that should've rightfully been invalidated on D1.

[RedCoyote]

With good reason...

Speak for yourself, Nacho. I'm content with what I'm getting out of don today.

---

Red: soras over others? Fo sho?

Given that Fate is playing close to the vest (which I'm kind of so-so on. I like the idea that he's wanting to observe how the players react to his hidden information, but then I think scum may deliberately be trying to throw us off), I think this is our best shot, yeah. sora has nothing but excuses for us whenever we ask him to show some initiative. I've found that it doesn't really matter whether we pressure him or not, we still don't really get anything valuable. When we turned up the heat (D1), he got emotional and unproductive, and when we let him loose (D2), he just sort of limped his way through. His claim is, at best, sketchy, given the role. He's still alive with it in the face of Reaper and Dia kills, Reaper being completely out of the blue and Dia making a little more sense as a kill but not quite enough to justify over a Doctor.

I don't know. A lot of things have to be going in sora's favor to read him as town. The mafia have to be playing WIFOM with their nightkills, possibly at their own disadvantage, the Mod had to have known that pairing a Big Daddy role with a Doctor power would be hard to accept, and sora would just have to normally be this emotional as a Townie (which, granted, is probably not difficult to accept, but it's still one more layer nonetheless).

---

The vote was uncalled for, by the way.

Give it to me, babe. Prove it to me. Because right now I don't see you as town. You have to understand that each night that passes without you six feet under is just piling on the suspicion. Give me some theories and some analysis. Surprise me. Don't just accept that people who are voting you are doing so with malice and those who believe you must be town. Do you get what I'm telling you? I mean, I literally sat there and told you I would be voting you if you didn't try to convince me not to. All that you gave me was that you protected me.

Well, thanks, but that's not enough to convince me.

---

I have my suspicions and I'm clearly stating them. But how should the reasons have been invalidated D1?

Well, I go back to the tried and true wagon analysis. Do you think Toon was trying to bus don? Do you think it was mafia wagon v.s. mafia wagon on D1? That's not unheard of, but you're going to have to sell that awfully hard for me. I'll tell you right now that "go back and reread" won't cut it for me.

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@sora wagon: Chrono, please explain your post 1101 a little more clearly. It's not like scum would obey you anyways, so you might as well enlighten us if you can. I don't know if I like four people basically jumping on this wagon in a row, but what else can I say? I mean, the possibility of sora being town just seems to shrink by the second.

[RedCoyote]

RC... actually, that's a very good point. I'll have to look at a few other of TF's games to see if he even has a history of bussing.

Like I said, it isn't out of the realm of possibility, and for all we know don could still be a third-party. That being said, I'd find it hard to put Toon and don together. If you come up with something interesting, then I'll always listen to it though.

---

If he's talking about that wagon and not today's action filled wagon well thats easymode and I wont spoil it.. yet.

I assumed he was talking about today as well, but the current wagon at its peak (which is right now, btw), includes me, Chrono, DS, KoC, and RECKONER.

KoC and Chrono are the only two players who were on the wagon both times (which seems surprisingly small).

Of the D1 wagon, I can't imagine Fate investigating Spyrex, don, or Chrono, given his positions on them, and on the D3 wagon Chrono still and, hopefully, me, so I would say that Fate's guilty is between DS, KoC, RECKONER, and horrordude, depending on which wagon he's talking about. I'm going to

unvote

as Fate begins to reveal a bit more. I don't want a quick hammer to be thrown down now that I know Fate's guilty isn't sora. This doesn't really speak to me having any new found sympathy for sora's alignment, but more to the fact that I don't want to let a quality lynch slip through our fingers.

[RedCoyote]

I can't take anything away from the scumteam, Spyrex and horrordude especially, I thought, had me fooled (hence my ADAM going to them). I love how horrordude in the QT is like, "Yeah, RC is the only one who would send me ADAM XD".

I was disappointed the town lynched KoC. Like I said in the QT, he was the only one of the remaining four who I think was closest to being cleared, even over don really. I don't know how much more obvious I could've made it that his role claim was exactly in line with mine.

Gamewise, I thought RECKONER was borderline, but Fate, you really went on an emotional powertrip this game. I don't know what your issue was, but you progressively got more hateful and irrational over the course of the game. The way you talked about Kise was inexcusable and uncalled for, and there isn't a doubt in my mind that the scumteam left you alive for how toxic you were for the town. I wasn't happy with Kise not claiming either, but the way you handled the situation made me sympathetic with Kise's decision not to claim. Who would want to help someone so nasty and degrading towards them?

Constructively, the modding of the game was average. I love Budja as a player, and I really enjoyed the flavor when we got it, but I wasn't taken away with the modding here. The vote counts, especially during the first couple of days, were far too sparse. Replacements became a serious issue, although you certainly can't put all of that on the shoulders of the Mod. Budja was quick enough on catching things that weren't supposed to be in the thread, but as I said earlier, when Fate was getting out of hand, I'd have like to have at least seen a wrist slap.

Still, I enjoyed the game when I was in it, and I felt like I had a really good feel for what was going on. Unfortunately I can't say that about many of the games I've played lately,

[RedCoyote]

Oh, but the balance, I think, seemed fine, which is definitely a good thing. I enjoyed the system and wouldn't hesitate to sign up for a game with a similar mechanic. Balancing a large game can definitely be a challenge, so Budja excelled in that department.