Mini 961: Insane Asylum II: GAME OVER :O!

[Glork]

I do not confirm.

But what'll I do if TWO people do this? Then the game will never start

[Glork]

I do not confirm.

But what'll I do if TWO people do this? Then the game will never start

FYI, I was Insane Confirming. :V

But you don't have that ability!

[Glork]

Had unexpected V/LA this past weekend. Will read boring crap later.

Vote: Glork

in th meantime. Dude's probably a dirty scumbaggo.

[Glork]

I read over boring crap. Vote stands.

[Glork]

FYI, Iece is protown.

[Glork]

Because I said so.

[Glork]

Yeah, mafiawise, there aren't many people left who can call me junior, young'un.

[Glork]

Oh yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm a miller, too. One sec.

Yeah, that.

[Glork]

EBWOP: Actually, I don't think I'm a miller in its conventional form. I have to check something with the moderator.

[Glork]

Iec is doing what Iec does.
Misusing meta.
Obviously he is scum.

Vote: Iec

:bigredx:


Please revise and resubmit.

[Glork]

Because I kind of forgot the details of my role. Tar bringing up "millerness" reminded me that I had some miller aspect of my role, so I went and checked.

So I was like "yeah, I'm a miller." But as it turns out, after asking the mod something, I am not a miller towards investigative abilities. Sane investigations on me should get a sane result.

[Glork]

Question: Why do you persist in being wrong?

[Glork]

Protip: none of the rest of us care about your petty squabble. You both sound like you're trying to convince the other that they're scum, not the rest of us. Please end this pointless argument before it becomes even more of a distraction to the game.

[Glork]

I wasn't aware that I had a spat with SP. I was just pointing out that voting for Iece is :badposting:.

In all fairness, the Iece/Farside thing did pretty much tell me that Iece is legit and farside has an above average chance of being legit. So in that respect it wasn't useless, but it doesn't need to continue.

[Glork]

and her attack on Glork looks craplogic right now

This made me laugh.

You may proceed with pretending to kill the moderator. I will proceed with keeping my vote safely tucked away until it is needed elsewhere.

Hey, this could be...

the

game where I'm actually lynchable and have an effect

[Glork]

@Glork: Voting for yourself is helping how?

I will answer this question as soon as you answer a question of mine:
Why is your vote still on known town?

[Glork]

He didn't put words in your mouth. He made a reasonable assumption based on this:

You voted me and asked me a question. I assumed that the two events were related. Your question was why stalling out on confirmation would be voteworthy. So the implication is that you think it's scummy to vote someone for stalling out on confirmation.

Just because he didn't interpret your post the way you intended, doesn't mean that he's scum. It means that you were unclear with your wording. For what it's worth, I made the exact same assumption as Iece did.

[Glork]

@Glork: Voting for yourself is helping how?

I will answer this question as soon as you answer a question of mine:
Why is your vote still on known town?

This is blatant hypocrisy, for one thing. Chances are you know your alignment and win condition; you have no good reason for your vote either.

For another thing, you're

STILL

treating Iecerint as confirmed, i.e. nobody votes him; end of discussion. It's fine to think Iecerint is obvtown, and I admit the two concepts are related, but they're not identical.

Way to go completely out of your way to justify a boring vote by answering a question directly asked towards somebody else about their vote specifically.

I'm sure you'll call this OMGUS, but

Uvnote, Vote: StrangerCoug

. I don't see this type of zealotry as being likely protown.

[Glork]

EBWOP:

Unvote, Vote: StrangerCoug

Typo ftw.

[Glork]

Oh, right. I voted for myself because I didn't feel like arbitrarily voting for somebody else.

[Glork]

You crazy kids and your inability to understand hyperbole.

[Glork]

Also, your last statement is factually false. Theoretically, Iece and I could be mod-confirmed masons. Or I could be a Daycop. Or I could have role-based knowledge about him from some other means. Even if I weren't using hyperbole, the entire basis of your vote is inherently wrong.

[Glork]

[Yes because in this game, given the title and theme and mod, that things like THAT would be SUPER LEGITMATE AND LISTENABLE TO.

This is weak, even for you. I fully well know the nature of the game, but that does not discount the possibility of mod-confirmedness, which is exactly the point I was making. Furthermore, I've already stated that I was using hyperbole. It seems awfully silly to try to pile on the nonexistent GlorkWagon because of a statement (there are roles which can confirm innocence D1) which I made very clear was purely hypothetical.

[Glork]

Also, my use of "arbitrary" was completely correct. More correct than "random," in fact.

ar·bi·trar·y
   /ˈɑrbɪˌtrɛri/ Show Spelled [ahr-bi-trer-ee] Show IPA adjective, noun, plural -trar·ies.
–adjective
1.
subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion: an arbitrary decision.
2.
decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute.
3.
having unlimited power; uncontrolled or unrestricted by law; despotic; tyrannical: an arbitrary government.

4.
capricious; unreasonable; unsupported:

an arbitrary demand for payment.
5.
Mathematics . undetermined; not assigned a specific value: an arbitrary constant.

Please learn to English language before firing off on stupid shit.

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: SocioPath

100% support.

[Glork]

ITT Socio really needs to work on his conspiracy theories. Also, he still doesn't understand the English language.

[Glork]

I've already explained that voting for myself was my way of not voting for anybody else. I didn't feel like putting a random vote on somebody else during the random voting stage. As soon as I found a suspect, I moved my vote off of myself.

There is no contradiction because my vote was a temporary, RVS, non-vote, while your vote was a serious vote with intended (if flawed) reasoning.

Also, please go back and read my "I don't know for a fact that Iece is protown, I was using hyperbole" comment from earlier.

[Glork]

So your question to me about voting for a known town was what?

It was me being intentionally obtuse at the start of a mafia game for the purposes of generating discussion.

A simlar example can be found in these three posts from NY60: Face-to-Face.

[Glork]

INTENTIONALLY OBTUSE?
SCUM!

Except I recognize when to move beyond that to seriousness, making me not mediocre at what I do.

[Glork]

Honestly, I can't remember the last time I

was

scum in a game. It had to have been at least a year ago. The most recently completed large game was Mars 3, which finished in November '08, when I flaked off-site entirely.

[Glork]

EBWOP: I was a Serial Killer in mirth's "Congratulations! You are..." Mafia, which finished in May 09, but I also flaked off-site then. Beyond that, I think you'd have to look for meta examples from completed games in my wiki.

Although I should point out that you'll probably have a hell of a hard time trying to meta me. I know of only like three people who could actually read me well, and they've all played dozens of games with me over the last five years.

[Glork]

If a player targets me with ability X (which is not an investigation), then that ability will have its "sanity" reversed, meaning it will have the opposite effect that it normally would.

Anyway, I think you hit the nail on the head Re: Socio. He may be trying to troll me into doing something stupid, and if that's the case he's mostly failing miserably.

[Glork]

For what it's worth, I would argue that self-voting during RVS is a complete null-tell, provided the vote is (re)moved as soon as the game gets serious. The only protown motivation is for discussion, and the only scum motivation is to pretend you're promoting discussion (which you end up doing anyway).

[Glork]

I mean anything that you can attempt to jump all over. I think you know I'm an enormous threat to scums in any game I play, so your behavior towards me is largely premeditated.

I'm pretty sure you know I'm not scum, though I love how you seem to have decided I've "outed myself as scum" without actually naming what makes you feel that I'm scummy.

[Glork]

Besides, I can say the exact same thing:
I think you know I'm an enormous threat to scums in any game I play.

Actually, the only games I know of that you've been in were Open Source, which I stopped following as soon as I died; and a certain ongoing. I'm really not impressed by you at all. You evidently think that you're an enormous fucking deal, but from my limited experiences with you, you're a pretty small fish in a very, very large pond. So don't sit here and try to tell

me

what

I

think of you when you have zero credentials and I have read approximately two days' worth of your mafia play.

so your behavior towards me is largely premeditated.

This is off.
I've been mostly reactionary towards you.
My first votes on you were clearly not serious, as your first disdains towards me shouldn't have been as well.
UK very clearly in my posts that UNVOTING IS REQUIRED.
So I had an entire slew of posts that were intentionally invalid.
For those paying attention, my first vote without the unvote prior, UK quickly made sure that it was clear it was invalid.
After such, during the slew of non-unvotes, UK made some errors, and then later corrected it, and then commented on each of my invalid votes.
I would think you of all people would realize this, so my responses to your posts of my Iec vote and the Glork vote should have been clear.

From your own perspective, maybe they are clear. But I certainly didn't recognize that you were intentionally failing to move your vote, and I don't even bother to understand some of the seemingly-throwaway comments you make, like the whole "arbitrary" thing. As soon as I realized you were trying to make that a distraction, I dropped the subject entirely.

That is quite the non sequitur.
He is the one that mentioned 'doing something stupid' and saying I was 'failing' meaning that there would be methods that wouldn't, as he said, 'fail' at doing such.
Meaning its possible.
Don't have to be "idiotic scum" to screw up as scum.

What you are evidently failing to understand is that "doing something stupid" is largely independent of my alignment. In fact, I probably "do stupid things" as town MORE than I do as scum. Mith metas that a sloppy/careless Glork is a protown Glork. Sometime later, I'll try to see if I can dig up the game in which he said that -- I forget which one it was, and it was probably 2-3 years ago... but I think it continues to apply. All of my remotely memorable scum games have been characterized by me being meticulous and conniving, while there are probably dozens upon dozens of examples of me screwing up in games, because -- and this is a concept that just might make a little too much sense -- I am still extremely human. Sometimes I let myself get carried away. Sometimes (California Trilogy III) I'm just flat-out wrong on every level possible. Sometimes I make a big deal out of the wrong things and make it easy for the scums to lead the town in the wrong direction. So yeah, when I said "do something stupid," I was talking about the fact that I am bound to make mistakes at every level. In fact, I'll even admit that you've gotten under my skin just a little bit in this game, and I'm trying really hard to not let that skew my scumdar unfairly against you, but you're doing a damned good job of convincing me that you're scum in spite of that.

[Glork]

Actually, Socio, I'd like you to explain in a serious, straightforward way why you jumped on "arbitrary" and why you chose to attempt to insult me even after I had pointed out that my use of arbitrary was appropriate.

I want to hear a definitive, constructive, protown reason behind those comments. That's definitely one of the things that, regardless of my misgivings about your playstyle, serves as being distinctly scummy right now.

[Glork]

and I don't even bother to understand some of the seemingly-throwaway comments you make, like the whole "arbitrary" thing. As soon as I realized you were trying to make that a distraction, I dropped the subject entirely.

Dropped it...and...

Actually, Socio, I'd like you to explain in a serious, straightforward way why you jumped on "arbitrary" and why you chose to attempt to insult me even after I had pointed out that my use of arbitrary was appropriate.

I want to hear a definitive, constructive, protown reason behind those comments. That's definitely one of the things that, regardless of my misgivings about your playstyle, serves as being distinctly scummy right now.

...brought it up again.
But sure, I'll explanionatate that fer yous.

Oh, right. I voted for myself because I didn't feel like arbitrarily voting for somebody else.

By your use of words, placing the word "arbitrarily" before the part where you reference others, you seem to imply that the vote for yourself is not as arbitrary.

Different points entirely. Does "was Glork's vote for himself arbitrary" in any way help you in scumhunting? I still think you were arguing for the sake of arguing, which is :nothelpful:
I wasn't going to continue with "my use of the word was correct." "No it wasn't!" "Yes it was!" "You're dumb!" "No you're dumb" because that helps nobody.
But in bringing it up again, I'm actively trying to see if you have protown motivations for the posts you make, which is a worthwhile and completely different approach to the topic at hand.

In fact, I'll even admit that you've gotten under my skin just a little bit in this game, and I'm trying really hard to not let that skew my scumdar unfairly against you, but you're doing a damned good job of convincing me that you're scum in spite of that.

O RLY?
This part says I wasn't:

if that's the case he's mostly failing miserably.

The "mostly" qualifier is negated by the "failing miserably" implying that my "trolling" was failing.
But now you say it is not.

I left myself a day to stew on it and my opinion of your trollishness changed. Not much else to say. Early on it didn't bother me, but after reading over it again, I still didn't see a protown motivation, and then it did end up bothering me. Both of those posts were consistent with my sentiments when they were made.

[Glork]

By the way, my vote for myself was completely arbitrary. I won't deny that. I guess that post should have read "I put an arbitrary vote on myself because I didn't feel like putting an arbitrary vote on someone else." I still don't see how that helps you in any way determine my alignment, though.

[Glork]

Also:

That is a nice chunk of name dropping and AtAs.
I guess it would be a good time for my name dropping:

Fantastic misrepresentation here.

Mentioning mith's meta against me is apparently "a nice chunk of name-dropping." Referencing my own meta as scum is apparently Appeal to Authority. Misrep and misrep.

Your response also fails to address the actual point at hand, which is: You're accusing me of saying that "Glork does something stupid" implies "Glork would have to be scum to do something stupid," when that is completely and utterly inaccurate.


My vote won't be moving off of Socio until he's dead. Between the mostly nonsesnsical attacks, misrepresentation, general unwillingness to answer my questions directly, it seems to me that he's relying primarily on rhetoric to generate anti-Glork sentiment, and it really makes me doubt the sincerity of his attitude towards my alignment.

[Glork]

I still don't see how that helps you in any way determine my alignment, though.

There is a method to my madness.

Not understanding something doesn't automatically make that something wrong.

Socio, I understand "method behind one's madness." That's been my own modus operandi in certain games for years. And you're right in that I don't understand it. But that's why I'm asking you to explain the method, because

I want to judge for myself whether this alleged method has protown intentions

... and when I do, you just try to spin it into something else implying glorkscum, which does NOT give me protown vibes. I'm not sure I can make that any clearer. I am very earnestly trying to understand why you do what you do because if you can convince me that it is protown, I'd be more than happy to look for scums elsewhere. But you make ZERO effort to do so.

[Glork]

Wow Glork, can you really not see how full of yourself you are being when regarding and responding to me?

Try to keep your ego in check, and it will help make you a better player.

I am quite the pompous ass.

[Glork]

EBWOP:

I still don't see how that helps you in any way determine my alignment, though.

There is a method to my madness.

Not understanding something doesn't automatically make that something wrong.

Socio, I understand "method behind one's madness." That's been my own modus operandi in certain games for years. And you're right in that I don't understand

it

your claimed method in this game (or possibly in general)

. But that's why I'm asking you to explain the method, because

I want to judge for myself whether this alleged method has protown intentions

... and when I do, you just try to spin it into something else implying glorkscum, which does NOT give me protown vibes. I'm not sure I can make that any clearer. I am very earnestly trying to understand why you do what you do because if you can convince me that it is protown, I'd be more than happy to look for scums elsewhere. But you make ZERO effort to do so.

[Glork]

Socio, I understand "method behind one's madness." That's been my own modus operandi in certain games for years. And you're right in that I don't understand it. But that's why I'm asking you to explain the method, because

I want to judge for myself whether this alleged method has protown intentions

... and when I do, you just try to spin it into something else implying glorkscum, which does NOT give me protown vibes. I'm not sure I can make that any clearer. I am very earnestly trying to understand why you do what you do because if you can convince me that it is protown, I'd be more than happy to look for scums elsewhere. But you make ZERO effort to do so.

Please just read at least some of the linked games then.
Yes it is an appeal to past authority, much like you, but it helps prove that my intentionally obtuse methods tend to work with amazing accuracy.

I hardly call finding a good chuck of games, and linking to them, and giving a brief overview of them "ZERO effort".

Explaining how I work is like explaining how gut feelings work, its not gut though, its understanding people on a deeper level.

That OS Mafia has some that I've described.

In fact, in most of my games I explain good chunks of how I work.
With enough reading, everything should be clear(ISH).

Fair enough. I will commit myself to reading through some of those games in the next few days.

Unvote

for now

[Glork]

So far I've only taken a cursory glance at OS Mafia.


But right now, I kind of want to go lurkerhunting. *IF* SP and I are both town, then scums are almost certainly sitting on their thumbs hoping we implode and get each other killed. Obvious observation may be obvious, but it still warrants vocalization.

Tar and CSL have V/LA I think. I don't think anyone else is in prod range, though I'll check

[Glork]

Anyway, I think you hit the nail on the head Re: Socio. He may be trying to troll me into doing something stupid, and if that's the case he's mostly failing miserably.

Doing something stupid?
Like outing yourself as scum?
Or Coug as your partner?

It's heavily implied here. The "stupid thing" that SP thinks I'm doing is as GlorkScum, not as GlorkTown.

[Glork]

Tar, you are correct. Protective roles targeting me have their sanity reversed. So, um, if you know you protect sanely, please don't target me.

I have also considered the notion that the scums have at least one Miller role, which may reverse Investigations, Protections, and/or even Kills preformed on them, and I have concluded that this is a likely possibility.


I could tentatively support a Snow_Bunny wagon.

[Glork]

I mostly agree with Kai's assessment of the game. Maybe I should put my testicles on and put my vote back on SP.

[Glork]

On the heels of the mod's warning, I will elect not to answer Tar's question about the number five.

Vote: Snow_Bunny

Still not thrilled about SP. I haven't read through many of his listed games yet, though. I'm still not thrilled about the blatant misrep, and there's still something that bugs me about his play. Can somebody link me to games that were not in SP's self-provided meta sample?

[Glork]

EBWOP: Can somebody not named SP link me to said alternate games?

[Glork]

@Glork: Why did you switch to SB?

I'd say it's probably because she's scum.

[Glork]

SP: For extra credit, name exactly two people who aren't Coug/Glork who are most likely to be scum.

[Glork]

...and here I had such high hopes for you.

Unvote
Vote: SocioPath

[Glork]

...and here I had such high hopes for you.

BLATANT MISREP.

:tup:

[Glork]

1) Coug and a lurker. We'll go with Slicey for now.
2) Me, Iece, Farside
3) N/A.

[Glork]

Actually, I changed my mind about 1. Let's go with Slicey and Kairyuu for now. I'm kinda flip-floppy on Coug.

[Glork]

Actually Coug, I'd rather not say at this time. There are multiple interactions I want to see play out.

If SP is protown, then Kairyuu's vote is most likely to be a worthless pileon vote, hence his inclusion on my "good alternate lynches" status. BV's vote doesn't look particularly great either. I don't really have a problem with Leech at this time.

Slicey and S_B have been particularly worthless. S_B is still voting for the mod (Seriously?), and Slicey put a pretty worthless vote on Tar (in my slightly-to-moderately protown category) before disappearing.

[Glork]

Would love it if anyone wants to ask me anything.

Quick! Who are all the scums?

[Glork]

Mod: Can we get an extension do to the replacement issue please?

Seconded. I had no idea there was a deadline so soon, and most of this game is either inactive or just joined the game.


Alternately, we could just lynch SP.

[Glork]

I don't know how I feel about farside's pressure on SB. With three parties implicated -- SC/Glork/SP -- I don't see a scum motivation in going for a wagon elsewhere, unless they're quite certain that a townwagon will follow to completion without them. Since SP has been winning for some time and several people off the wagon have expressed interest, I think SB is unlikely to be scum with SP.

I'm not really following how you get to the last sentence.

I think SP-town implies SB-town, because SB would probably slide onto the wagon, but I don't see how they couldn't be scum together.

[Glork]

Ah, I think I see what you're saying. There are two potential rival "wagons" to choose from, so why would she hang SP out to dry? Most people either bus or try to protect in that situation.


I can buy that logic. SP and SB are probably not scum together.

[Glork]

Yeah, but Coug has two votes so I still don't see SBscum going to Tar if SP is scum with her.

[Glork]

Vote extension

[Glork]

Could both glork and bv310 explain this?

SP was being senselessly disruptive and trying as hard as possible to forge a link between Glork and StrangerCoug. Coug's unvote on me was reasonable, and SP immediately jumped into "YOU GUYS ARE DISTANCING SCUMBUDDIES" mode.

Anyway, I had been voting for SC for answering farside's question on her behalf, which is okay for an initial nonserious vote, but overall a pretty weak reason to be voting somebody. Socio's play was (and is) far more alarming than Coug's. Yes, I'm aware that Coug and I were reciprocal-voting, then I decided to go after the same person instead. This is like a six year old scumtell, and I'm going to once again be egomaniacal for a moment and say I would be above committing such an elementary mistake if I were scum.

I have considered the possibility that Socio is busing Coug to set up a D2 Glorklynch, but Socio's a better lynch than Coug regardless. Socio's play is demonstrably scummier, and less beneficial to the rest of the town if he does happen to be protown. Socio's behavior towards Coug suggests potential distancing, but Coug's attitude towards Socio doesn't fit. That's why I initially had Coug listed as an "alternate" scum to SP/SB, then changed my mind when I thought about it a little more.


Regardless, there is definitely one scum in the vocal group, definitely one scum amongst the chronic lurkers, and the third (and possibly fourth) could fall into either category at this point.

[Glork]

Coug's unvote on me was reasonable, and SP immediately jumped into "YOU GUYS ARE DISTANCING SCUMBUDDIES" mode.

SC's unvote and the reasons for such were SO FAKE, and completely disregarded the role that most often has inside knowledge of town...that being scum.
SC had a weak attack on Glork, either to distance or to try to get something to stick.
He couldn't keep it up, and therefore dropped the attacks, and slinked into a corner to let the more vocals take over.
"OOPS I GUESS YOU COULD HAVE INSIDE KNOWLEDGE OF TOWN, MY BAD. CASE DISMISSED"

The entire basis of Coug's argument was that scums WERE the only people who could have inside knowledge on who was town, and that me saying "Iece is town" so definitively was because I am scum with the knowledge that Iece is town. I pointed out that the foundation of his argument was based on an inherently flawed ("There are a number of protown roles which can have information on other protown players"), so he dropped the subject.

I just feel like, if Coug and I were to hypothetically distance at the start of a game, we'd be intelligent enough not to do it in a way that's so terrible and mutually binding. I also feel like you should know this, but your stubbornness is only outdone by my own.

[Glork]

@glork: Why are you not concerned about him dropping the subject? Doesn't it seem rational to suspect someone if they have inside information? The role that most often has other's alignment information on day 1 is scum

I've already explained this, but here it goes again.

Not only did I point out roles which could have inside information as town, but I also

explained that I was using hyperbole, and merely had a protown read on Iece

. The only sensible things to do in that case are to challenge my use of hyperbole or drop the subject. Coug did the latter.

[Glork]

Hi. I'm here, kinda lurking.


I personally don't see the benefit to a chart like the one MO posted, but to each his own. To me, finding scum is usually more in the posts themselves and ebb/flow of the game.

DGB makes a disturbing amount of sense in her initial posts. The paranoid part of me is thinking about CT III, but otherwise her posts look very good so far.

I would be content to hop on a wagon of either Coug or Bunny. I'm also going to stop using SC/SP/SB because for some reason they keep getting me mixed up.

Not much else to say on my end. I feel like the day has dragged on too long.

Unvote, Vote: StrangerCoug

for parity's sake. I'm interested to see which way the scales tip from here.

[Glork]

The claim doesn't really going to do anything for me one way or another. Part of me believes that everyone can claim their own role (aside from alignment). This game is farther "out there" than most, so I'm not putting a ton of weight into judging accuracy of claims.

NK-Immune Miller Vig also has that awkward stigma of having been one of the most infamously bad fakeclaims ever, and it's something that seems to pop up in these types of games every so often.

I'd say, judge SC based on his play, and not his claim.

[Glork]

Unvote
Vote: Ellibereth

Please claim, Elli. You are now at L-2.


Yes, I realize my desire to have Elli claim is in direct contrast to what I just said about them not holding much weight. But I want a claim, and possibly a lynch.

[Glork]

Unvote
Vote: Ellibereth

Please claim, Elli. You are now at L-2.

FoS: Glork

Start convincing me that you're not trying to get as many people as possible to claim if you don't want me to vig you.

Not as many as possible. Two. There are some things I'm working out about this game, and so the claims are helpful.

You're more than welcome to try to vig me if you'd like. I don't think either of us can guarantee that it will work.



I am currently considering the possibility that the scums have an Insane Doctor who does their kills, and that Elli is a Mafia Nurse who will do the killing once his scumbuddy is dead and gone.

The implications of such a belief are a little awkward, though. I'm not sure if that belies a two-person scumgroup, if there's a Backup Nurse or something (very unlikely, IMO), or if it's possible to put the scums in a position where they won't actually be able to kill anyone.




One thing is certain. I do believe that Coug thinks he's a Vig, and I do believe that Elli is a Nurse of some kind.

Unvote

while I think.

In the meantime, Tar's "lock on" bothers me. Maybe it's because I've only bothered to breadcrumb a very minor aspect of my role, and I see his post as an excuse to lash out at someone who he can paint as being scum for what he will pose as suboptimal town play.

[Glork]

By the way, Coug, slinging around threats to Vig people is probably not a good idea. The more you do it, the more likely it is that someone is going to claim to try to save themselves from your prospective (and possibly sane) Vig attempt. So while you're giving me a telling off for pushing for a second claim, I don't think you're considering the implications of your own threats and requests.

[Glork]

I'm not liking coug at all right now, but for some odd reason, I feel I should be hesitant. Let's call it gut, I guess. (if I were to have to assign a reason to it, I'd guess that it feels too unnatural a slip-up, and the wagon built too quickly)

You should trust your gut here. Coug's behavior is a pretty clear indicator that he believes his role. The hyperaggressive kill threats, while not generally a good idea, are a pretty distinct protown tell. I don't see myself wanting to lynch Coug at any point, unless it becomes apparent that there is an SK in the game. Then I will reconsider.


Elli, please ask the mod what happens if two doctors die in the same phase (for example, if two doctors are killed N1). Report your findings to us.



There is a very good chance that, at the height of the CougWagon, at least two scums were voting him. I like Iece's reasoning on why he didn't get hammered. That nudges the Socio pendulum back towards the "scum" side for me once again.

[Glork]

PLZ SHOW THE ERROR OF MY WAYS.

Coug's behavior is a pretty clear indicator that he believes his role. The hyperaggressive kill threats, while not generally a good idea, are a pretty distinct protown tell. I don't see myself wanting to lynch Coug at any point, unless it becomes apparent that there is an SK in the game. Then I will reconsider.

luv u

[Glork]

Not the crumbs themselves. Scums falsecrumb enough that it's silly to put absolute faith in them.

Coug's "convince me that you're not just claimfishing or I will vig you" post is really what convinced me. In my experience (no, I can't cite specific examples of players/games, this was ages ago), when a player claims Vig and then starts flinging threats, he is protown. I think that Coug's threat to me was very genuine, so he really believes that he can Vig. Whether he can get through the sanity mechanics of this game and actually kill me is another matter entirely, but when he threatened me, he definitely believed himself capable of killing me.

[Glork]

EBWOP:

he definitely believed himself capable of

vigging

me.

Fixed.

[Glork]

Glork: If you believe SC is what he claims why are you defering back to SP lynch. There is a split wagon going on.

I'm not deferring to a Socio lynch. I'm trying to figure out exactly where I want to go with this. Why do you ask?

[Glork]

I had assumed by this comment you were deffering back to SP as a possilbe lynch for the day

There is a very good chance that, at the height of the CougWagon, at least two scums were voting him. I like Iece's reasoning on why he didn't get hammered. That nudges the Socio pendulum back towards the "scum" side for me once again.

After your switch to Elli being at L-2 to claim I'm just watching which way you go and if you are going to push for another claim by the end of the day.
Also Are you basing this view on SP because how he's played or do you believe there is an Elli/SP connection?

If I were feeling an Elli/Socio connection, I'd just be voting Elli. My suspicions of Socio are due to his own posting, especially with the relatively recent revelation that Coug is probably protown. I was merely commenting that he's still on my radar.

I don't know where I stand. I know that probably sounds silly, especially coming from me, but I don't have a good grasp of who is scum. I've identified about four people whose play seems demonstrably protown, but that's not helping me arrive at a lynch decision for today.

It doesn't help that the Dram slot, and the Leech/Yos slot has done nothing, and that the Haylen slot -- while she has posted since replacing in -- has failed to make an impression on me one way or another.

[Glork]

I'm going to take a small leap of faith and

Vote: Ellibereth

.

[Glork]

Hmmm, just thought of something.
How would scum probably be voting if Stranger and I are both town?

It's a tossup. Probably not all three on one wagon, but 2-1, or 1-1 with one off-wagons is kind of a crapshoot.

[Glork]

Coug: Does your NK-Immunity state that all kills attempted on you fail, or does it bring kill sanity into the issue?

[Glork]

I believe that Coug is protown. It sounds like he has roughly the same millerlike abilities that I do.


You're probably not Unnightkillable, and I'm really starting to think that us regular inmates are legit, while the doctors are the scums.



Vote stays on Elli.

[Glork]

But, without knowing the alignment of at least some of the suspects, really no way to say.

There is an easy solution to this, Yos, and it involves not voting for someone irrelevant.

[Glork]

I know, but considering the deadline is less than 20 hours away, I'm not really sure why you insist on holding out.

If by 20 hours you mean like, 45 hours

[Glork]

Yeah, as it turns out, today is Saturday, not Sunday.

-_-

[Glork]

I should probably note tha tI'll be out of commission for pretty much all of Sunday... visitng with family.

[Glork]

Pah. It was such a good theory, too.

[Glork]

[Well, if you think SC is scum, and you don't think Eli is scum, then why wouldn't you be voting for SC right now? Why wouldn't you be taking this time to try to convince me to vote SC instead of Eli, when I've already pointed out that I won't be here again before deadline tommorow and so I have to vote tonight, and that I'm currently planning on dropping the hammer on Eli unless someone convinces me otherwise?

This is :goodposting:.

I'm content to lynch Socio tomorrow.

[Glork]

I don't buy it. There is no rationale for being off of a deadline wagon of somebody you have repeatedly said is scum.

ESPECIALLY given that we can talk at night, you could have hammered and then explained during the night phase.

Yos's quote basically says, clear as day "SOCIO IS SPEWING BULLSHIT AND HIS CLAIMED 'SUSPICIONS' ARE DISINGENUOUS." And you have no legitimate response to that other than to post in lots of capital letters and hope that the town somehow finds this an accpetable repsonse.

Protip: We won't.

[Glork]

BTW, "a lot can happen in 17 hours" is such a copout, especially considering at least two people expressed V/LA, and Yos had said on Saturday that he would hammer Sunday unless there were objections. you do not have a leg to stand on here, Socio. You are pretty much bent over and boned.

[Glork]

BTW, "a lot can happen in 17 hours" is such a copout, especially considering at least two people expressed V/LA, and Yos had said on Saturday that he would hammer Sunday unless there were objections. you do not have a leg to stand on here, Socio. You are pretty much bent over and boned.

I already had stated that I would be around for deadline.
So this is some good glazed-eyed posting.

I honesty do not care what you have to say at this point.

YOU may have been around at deadline, but there was no guarantee that the people who already WERE away would have had enough time to check in on the thread. I almost didn't check last night, except that I really wanted to see if Elli was scum. And I didn't get to this thread until I made those two posts, which would have been a couple hours after the deadline. You can't sit here and say that "I would be around" implies "enough people would be available (and focusing) on this game enough to allow a counterwagon to happen." Those are two completely different things.

[Glork]

Except you can humor me here:

I don't buy it. There is no rationale for being off of a deadline wagon of somebody you have repeatedly said is scum.

QUICK!
TELL ME WHICH OF THESE WERE PRE-CLAIM AND POST-CLAIM.

HURR DURR HURR.

Not getting what you're asking. After SC's claim, you said you still thought he was scum, and referred to him as "SK." SC was one of two viable lynch candidates, yet you obstinately sat on Yos isntad of

TRYING TO FNISH OFF A LYNCH ON WHAT YOU THOUGHT WAS A SCUMWAGON

.

[Glork]

EBWOP: I see your capital letters and raise you bold text.

[Glork]

BTW, "a lot can happen in 17 hours" is such a copout, especially considering at least two people expressed V/LA, and Yos had said on Saturday that he would hammer Sunday unless there were objections. you do not have a leg to stand on here, Socio. You are pretty much bent over and boned.

I already had stated that I would be around for deadline.
So this is some good glazed-eyed posting.

I honesty do not care what you have to say at this point.

YOU may have been around at deadline, but there was no guarantee that the people who already WERE away would have had enough time to check in on the thread. I almost didn't check last night, except that I really wanted to see if Elli was scum. And I didn't get to this thread until I made those two posts, which would have been a couple hours after the deadline. You can't sit here and say that "I would be around" implies "enough people would be available (and focusing) on this game enough to allow a counterwagon to happen." Those are two completely different things.

um...
what?

Socio said that "a lot can happen" in the 17 hours until deadline.
I pointed out that for the bulk of that time, people were on V/LA, and that Yos had already said he was going to hammer Sunday, so using "still 17 hours until deadline" was a copout excuse.
Socio said "but I stated I would be around at deadline."
I said "but not everybody else would have been around at deadline," implying "so you can't rely on that time to make something 'happen' like you suggested."

[Glork]

Magnus, I've been in games where late wagons happened, too, but it is far and away the

EXCEPTION

and not the norm. It is possible to believe that something

could

happen, but it is unreasonable to assume that something will happen, which is what Socio is trying to plant in our heads.

Mag, do YOU think that Socio was in the right, voting for Yos instead of Coug, even though he thought Coug is scum and 'want[ed] Coug lynched'?

[Glork]

I'm just going to leave these here:

[Well, if you think SC is scum, and you don't think Eli is scum, then why wouldn't you be voting for SC right now? Why wouldn't you be taking this time to try to convince me to vote SC instead of Eli, when I've already pointed out that I won't be here again before deadline tommorow and so I have to vote tonight, and that I'm currently planning on dropping the hammer on Eli unless someone convinces me otherwise?

This is :goodposting:.

I'm content to lynch Socio tomorrow.

I don't buy it. There is no rationale for being off of a deadline wagon of somebody you have repeatedly said is scum.

ESPECIALLY given that we can talk at night, you could have hammered and then explained during the night phase.

Yos's quote basically says, clear as day "SOCIO IS SPEWING BULLSHIT AND HIS CLAIMED 'SUSPICIONS' ARE DISINGENUOUS." And you have no legitimate response to that other than to post in lots of capital letters and hope that the town somehow finds this an accpetable repsonse.

Protip: We won't.

The two most veteran players had SP dead to rights, both died (although my death was due to Tar's carelessness), and nobody bothered to pay one bit of attention. Does anybody ever bother with any kind of nightkill analysis anymore? Socio isn't even that hard to get a decent read on.

[Glork]

Oh, I'm also going to repost what I posted in the Green Room -- first exchange of words I had when I found out I died:

(10:58:33 PM) GlorkTheInvader: is socio scum?
(10:59:28 PM) UncertainKitten: Yep
(11:07:32 PM) GlorkTheInvader: ofc
(11:07:37 PM) GlorkTheInvader: is dgb scum?
(11:07:47 PM) UncertainKitten: yep
(11:07:53 PM) UncertainKitten: Go for three?
(11:08:12 PM) GlorkTheInvader: hm
(11:08:14 PM) GlorkTheInvader: one sec
(11:08:47 PM) GlorkTheInvader: haylen
(11:08:52 PM) UncertainKitten: Half a point.
(11:08:56 PM) GlorkTheInvader: she's the sK?
(11:08:58 PM) UncertainKitten: Yep



Easy fucking game to figure out. I need to go back to the "SHUT THE FUCK UP AND DO WHAT I TELL YOU TO DO" strategy, apparently.