Mini 988 - Small Town Mafia GAME OVER

[Cuetlachtli]

/confirm

[Cuetlachtli]

hey all.

I worked 60 hours this past week so I didn't have time to read the game. I will promise you I will post something later this weekend after I have a thorough read.

[Cuetlachtli]

Man in the games I have played in on this site, it has usually taken a whole week to get to 8-10 pages. Sigh...

here is my token RVS vote:

vote: Zach

hi Zach

unvote

I think Butterfly is scum and I have thought so since Pg1, Post 23 where Butterfly seems to take the Exilon wagon too seriously, saying that Exilon is prob town, yet he votes him anyways.

Butterfly continues to be scummy for reasons already stated by other players.

There is one thing that hasn't been said about Butter that I spotted on Page 6, Post 163. Butter says he doesn't have a read on anybody. Newb scum might have trouble manufacturing scum reads. Also, after he retracts his "no read" statement in ISO 15 on Friday, he waits until noon on Saturday to give his reads. One of his reads is OMGUS on Jason and the other is on an inactive player, Antonio.

I am going to vote Butter at the end of this post.

If Butter flips scum, the two players most likely to be his scum buddies are DavidParker and Nacho, and Concerned to a lesser extent.

Posts 83, 108, 168 all instances of possible chainsaw defense/smoke screen, whatever you want to call it, if Butter flips scum.

Post 206 is possible buss.

vote: The Butterfly

I will be around the rest of today. Tomorrow I am working late so I won't be around. I should be available the rest of the week after Monday.

[Cuetlachtli]

honestly...

Butterfly's play in general > "I am scum" claim

[Cuetlachtli]

Hey I am still here and I still think Butterfly is scum.

And if Butterfly does flip scum I think we should review DavidParker, Nacho, and Concerned first thing tomorrow.

[Cuetlachtli]

Case against DavidParker:

Please read his ISO and note how wish washy and contradictory he is concerning his opinions of Exilon and Butterfly.

THEN

Read pages 4-6 and 8-9 for context. (Themes: Chainsaw defense¹, buss, wish washyness) Also note that pages 4-9 occur during a three day span--Thurs - Fri.

---

Which brings me to my brand new theory:

There are 3 scum and their names are Butterfly, DavidParker, and Oxide.

Scum power roles:

Butterfly = newb scum
DavidParker = newb scum
Oxide = newb scum

So we are basically facing a newb scum team!

Case klosed.

---

_{1. https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... Version.29}

[Cuetlachtli]

Also, DavidParker and Oxide's recent publicized town reads of Zach and Jason look like good ole' fashion scum butt kissing. I interpret these proclamations as a scum-town buddy attempt with the town's two most aggressive players.

[Cuetlachtli]

Butterfly post your reads on EVERYBODY before you are hammered. k thx.

[Cuetlachtli]

ANd Cuet, as your "noob scum team" it seems kind of "unnoobish" of us to all be posting against each other. Well both ox1de and I have said we would gladly lynch butterfly, while ox1de has said he would gladly lynch me. Sure, this isn't really a case for my defence but just a point I think you should note if you haven't.

So are you mad that I called you a noob or are you mad that I called you scum?

Final question: @Cuet: What is your case against ox1de?

Why do you care about my case against ox1de, but ignore my unstated cases against Nacho and Concerned, whom I also implicated in a possible scum team earlier in the game? You are basically strengthening my argument that you and ox1de are scum together by ignoring my cases against Nacho and Concerned. Thanks!

[Cuetlachtli]

At what point did I post that I have a town read from zach and jason? If anything my gut is telling me Jason is scum.

Also, I've been voting for butterfly for a while when there's been plenty of other bandwagons started that I could have easily clinged onto, sure you could present some load of WIFOM saying oh but you did that to distance yourself from butterfly, but fact is I think he is scum and want him gone. I would gladly hammer him if it was nearing the very end of the deadline, and it was up to me. If I had to choose anyone, I would choose him.

This is how I interpret your ISO:

Post 4. Pressure mounts on Butterfly. David hopes to kill his scum buddy's wagon by voting one of Butterfly's attackers (chainsaw defense).

Zach asks David for his position on the Exilon wagon which inspires these gems...

Well I took part on the Exilon wagon. I'm surprised it got to L-1, to be honest, I like to get games moving as I come from a site whre day phases last 1-2 real life days. So activity is usually big and stuff gets done in shrot periods of time so i was happy with a bandwagon. Games here move a lot more methodically and... slow!

The exilon wagon may be useful to look at later when we know more, although I think not much can be said of it atm as it was mostly a joke. ALthough someone was about to put him at L-1 in their post then changed their mind mid post. That seems possible as scum trying to get a quick lynch, but then not wanting to seem to obvious.

AND

Just re-read the exilon bandwagon, and my vote on him stands. Was actually justified and he didn't deal with it well. The "vote for himself" seems to be a ploy to seem less scummy. Then doesn't do it because he "wants his random vote"

Seems like a tad bit of over-analyzes for a wagon that lasted a whopping two hours. I don't like your over reaction and fake reason for keeping your vote on Ex.

Post 8. Jason attacks David's other scum buddy, ox1de. Thus, David votes Jason!

Post 10. The argument on Butterfly hasn't changed since Post 4, your ISO, thus your reasoning for voting him is unjustified.

[Cuetlachtli]

@Cuet: Why not start analyzing us three right now? What happens if Butterfly flips town?

Why not? If Butters flips town then that theory is null and void. If Butters flips scum my theory serves as insurance that the town will be on the right track if I happen to die during the night.

[Cuetlachtli]

Also, I think Antonio should be replaced despite his recent fluff post. I have no confidence that he will ever become active.

[Cuetlachtli]

Hmm... if we're a week from deadline,

I'm definitely willing to hammer Butterfly.

He isn't adding anything to the game whatsoever, he's active enough where he's not going to get replaced, and he's claimed VT.

Nacho, you then go on to defend Butters incessantly in your subsequent posts. Explain how you would be willing to hammer a player whom you think is a Village Idiot. That line of thinking just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

[Cuetlachtli]

Right now, though, I'm leaning Ox1de. For essentialy the same reasons that would warrant him a vote day 1 + his very "meh" posts today.

I can provide quotes if needed

, but I think it suffices to say his general tone seems more of a scum trying to lay low while contributing to the discussion than a townie who was on the wrong track.

Can you please provide some quotes? Thanks.

[Cuetlachtli]

Long Version...see next post for abridged version.

---

Hmm yea I also have some observations on Ox:

Day 1, the game begins with the Exilon wagon, which reaches L-2 in record fashion. Fast forward to the end of page 3, the Butters wagon starts to gain steam. By the middle of page 4, the Butters wagon is at L-2. In comes Ox to the rescue with a classic strawman argument:

I'm sticking with Exilon right now. That was quite scummy.

Butterfly, meh. I don't see it. Plus Cueti and David have yet to post. Soemone is too eager...

I've gotta say that Zach is looking bad. Some good comments mixed in, but: bandwagoning, being pedantic, asking questions without adding anything, etc.

Fos: Zach

Ox thinks Zach is looking bad (cuz he is voting his scum buddy), but thinks he is making good comments—half of which are ironically directed at Butters being scum (wtf?). At that point in the game, Zach’s last post was “Your newbie card is invalid, go back two spaces.” Reread and judge Ox’s post for yourself.


Safe to say, Ox’s strawman attempt doesn’t workout like he had planned and Ex calls him out on it. Ox follows up Ex’s post with this gem:

Butterfly, meh. I don't see it. Plus Cueti and David have yet to post. Soemone is too eager...

I've gotta say that Zach is looking bad. Some good comments mixed in, but: bandwagoning, being pedantic, asking questions without adding anything, etc.

What is it that you don't agree with Butterfly's case?
Who's that someone you are talking about?
Why is Cueti and David not posting relevant to an ongoing wagon and the information we get from it?
By the way, why is bandwagoning a reason for suspicion on Zach?
Am I scummy for asking these questions without adding anything?

I meant that I

don't

think Butterfly is scum.
Zach and Concerned seem eager for an early lynch.
I'm just concened that we might lynch someone whilst the lurkers go unquestioned. Scum want a quick lynch...
Asking relavent questions is sound. Irrelevant questions less so.

I love this post. Ox claims that Zach and Concerned are eager to lynch, but for some reason, lets Butters off the hook. Even though Butters single handedly put Ex at L-2. How can Zacn and Concerned be “eager to lynch,” but not Butters when all three of them were part of the same wagon?

Fast forward to his next post:

Achmm.

I guess I'm not used to the number of posts. Page 5 and I'm calling lurkers, but so...

Seems like wagons are fine for scumhunting. Just a bit worried when Ex got to L-2 or L-1, whatever.

Your scum buddy, Butters, put Ex at L-2! Why didn’t you consider him to be “eager to lynch?!”


And then:

Where / When do Zach and Concerned show eagerness for a quicklynch?

They didn't' ok.

It's just that Zach and Concerned both jumped on your wagon real quick.

This is backpedaling, which Jason stated is a scum tell. I agree with him.

@Super and Jason: I'm not sure if you just don't get it or you're being obtuse (scummy).

Zach and Conc leapt on the bandwagon. That wagon nearly killed Ex. I accused them of looking for a quicklynch.

Subsiquent posts changed my mind.

Backpedaling + Ignoring his scum buddy who almost got Ex killed

Ox1de, why are you still voting for me?

Because of the thing you did.

Exilon's logic is sound. Mafia can chat until eveyone confirms. BUT this is self-evident, it's part of the game. Why reinforce it? Why say that the last player to confirm is scum? Why not actually follow through with a vote or something?

Scum will seek to muddy the waters. A townie wouldn't.

Ok Exilon, I'll accept it was a joke.

Unvote.

More epic backpedaling…

Ox1de, why didn't you consider it was a joke or ask for clarification?
Since you unvoted me, are you planning to vote on someone else?

I preferred the more agressive approach. I need to re-read the whole thread to be honest. Nobody has been very scummy, so I guess I'll focus on those who haven't contibuted so much.

For some reason I have Zach down as town because someone said his play is consistent with his meta. I have to lok into that too.

Even more backpedaling! Now you think Zach is town?!

Can someone explain the logic behind scumclaim = scummy. After all Nacho did it too.

Ox attempting to cast doubt on the infamous scum claim…

My position on Butterfly: Neutral.

None of the arguments for his scumminess are compelling.

It looks like a policy lynch to me.

Zach has come up with some good reasons why we should lynch him anyway, but they don't convince me. In fact he's annoying me because he goes too far. You shouldn't provide ammunition for scum, and

always

leave enough rope so they can hang themselves.

DavidParker is the only one on the Butterfly wagon who hasn't really given a reason why. In fact he's hardly contributed anything much. Classic bandwagonning and lurking, I'd say.

Vote: David Parker.

Ox reaching for more straw; I think most of the people on the Butters wagon were voting him cuz they thought he was scummy…

I am scum.

Now, Smash and Jason, explain

why

that makes me mafia. I'd appreciate the rest of you keeping your opinions to yourselves until they have both responded. Thanks.

Starting to look like you are scum, no?

My opinion on Butters: The scumclaim stuff is nonsense.

As for the rest it is neutral for me

. It just looks like a policy (or even personality) lynch, which I object to on principle.

Having said that, I am resigned to his lynch and it wouldn't be

that

bad.

[/b]Read: I don't agree with lynching my partner. But am resigned to it anyway

As before, you are very selective with your judgements. It's fine for Nacho, but anyone else claiming scum must be mafia. Likewise, there are a couple of other people who aren't convinced that Butters is scum, but when I say it...

I'll put it down to scum hunting, but you ought to try another target.

I like Jason’s response.

Lobster's judgement seems a bit harsh, or is that just me?

Anyway, we have to make a decision. I've not had much joy identifying scum, but there are several people that I think are town. Out of the potential targets today,

I'm only interested in lynching David, Butters, or Nacho.

Townies:

• Zach - Knows what he's talking about. Fairly well-balanced. Open to reason.
• Jason - Too quick to jump to conclusions. Sound logic. Zach's apprentice (is that good or bad?)
• Exilion - Rattled me at first. Consistent scum hunting. Minor doubts about his spread of votes.
• Concerned - Realist. Def not scummy for holding off the hammer. Bit quiet

Maybe townie, but not sure of:

• Smash - Fairly good reasoning. Heavily against Butter's lynch but didn't unvote. Repeatedly pointed out Consistent's potential scumminess.

Possible scum:

• David - Probably guilty of lurking and wagonning.

The rest I don't have enough to go on. (Nacho is a gut feel).

Epic backpedaling here, gives a town read on the players who have suspected him the most. Ass kissing at its finest.

Major fast forward:

Final question: @Cuet: What is your case against ox1de?

Why do you care about my case against ox1de,

but ignore my unstated cases against Nacho and Concerned, whom I also implicated in a possible scum team earlier in the game?

You are basically strengthening my argument that you and ox1de are scum together by ignoring my cases against Nacho and Concerned. Thanks!

David has been trying to buddy-up with me ever since I voted him.

But returning to you.

Why haven't you backed up those other scum calls?

Also, your reason for not sharing the Butters town scenario is pretty weak - you still might be night killed.

Withholding information is OK in the short term, but overall it is anti-town if not downright scummy.

I think Ox is reaching for more straws here. He thinks I am scummy for “withholding information,” allegedly. Check out this post:

Man in the games I have played in on this site, it has usually taken a whole week to get to 8-10 pages. Sigh...

here is my token RVS vote:

vote: Zach

hi Zach

unvote

I think Butterfly is scum and I have thought so since Pg1, Post 23 where Butterfly seems to take the Exilon wagon too seriously, saying that Exilon is prob town, yet he votes him anyways.

Butterfly continues to be scummy for reasons already stated by other players.

There is one thing that hasn't been said about Butter that I spotted on Page 6, Post 163. Butter says he doesn't have a read on anybody. Newb scum might have trouble manufacturing scum reads. Also, after he retracts his "no read" statement in ISO 15 on Friday, he waits until noon on Saturday to give his reads. One of his reads is OMGUS on Jason and the other is on an inactive player, Antonio.

I am going to vote Butter at the end of this post.

If Butter flips scum, the two players most likely to be his scum buddies are DavidParker and Nacho, and Concerned to a lesser extent.

Posts 83, 108, 168 all instances of possible chainsaw defense/smoke screen, whatever you want to call it, if Butter flips scum.

Post 206 is possible buss.

vote: The Butterfly

I will be around the rest of today. Tomorrow I am working late so I won't be around. I should be available the rest of the week after Monday.

I never withheld any cases or information about Nacho or Concerned even though I claimed that I did in the italic text in the post above. Ox receives an F on that reaction test.

Well I'm very pleased with the kills. We lynched scum (well you guys did) and they took out my prime suspect.

Regarding bussing: Highly likely I'd say. Butters was never going to be much help to the scum team either. Does anyone else think that Concerned's last post looks over-defensive? Nobody accused him of bussing yet.

Reaching for straws…

Regarding bussing: Highly likely I'd say. Butters was never going to be much help to the scum team either. Does anyone else think that Concerned's last post looks over-defensive? Nobody accused him of bussing yet.

Concerned's L-1 vote for The Butterfly is scummy. It feels like that he's attempting to bus The Butterfly. Definedently will be on the lookout for him. However, I think we need to put forth more attention toward Nachomamma8. I'll explain my case on him:

Hmmm?

Sorry, I missed that.

More backpedaling…


That said…

[Cuetlachtli]

Abridged Version

---

Ox is scummy!

vote: Ox1de

[Cuetlachtli]

Zach, Ex said multiple times that he was for the Butters lynch, he just wanted me and Antonio to post more before the lynch was final.

your guys are rigt... that douse seem a little scummy dousent it?

vote: Exilon

but i could be completly wrong on this... he could just be a townie trying to give out some deacent advice....

also as you can see, im back

What does this post mean? Is newb-scum Butters really bussing his partner on page 1?

"i could be completly wrong on this... he could be just a townie trying to give out some deacent advice...."

Or is this ^ a disclaimer? Does Butters know that Ex is town?

[Cuetlachtli]

Ox talk around in circles more...

Oh and regarding your scum case on Nacho and Concerned: how are we supposed to follow that up now? Care to summarise?

What part don't you understand?

The butterfly does appear to be a fairly obvious vote at this point, he's said a few silly things.

However I'm going to assume he's fairly inexperienced and I can't count how many times both town and scum have jumped on the newbie early on simply because he/she isn't careful enough about what they say.

Also I feel like the whole "rolefishing" angle is a dead end, I think butterfly read the word "investigate" in Exilon's preceding post and his mind immediately jumped to cop which is why he mentioned it, null tell.

I just feel like I've gone down this road all to often with players like butterfly, and I'm not convinced he has any more chance of being scum than newb town.

Vote : Antonio

In the hopes that he'll say something.

looked like smokescreen

Eh, look back to my previous posts, I was awaiting the town's go-ahead to hammer as well as some input from antonio, as far as I'm concerned we aren't quite done discussing day 1.

I am for the butterfly wagon and I am willing to hammer, I was just letting discussion take it's course. How Jason and Zach found that scummy is really beyond me.

looked like buss

Unvote, Vote: Zachrulez

Stop being scummy.

looked like chainsaw defense


Any more straws you want to reach for Ox?

[Cuetlachtli]

BTW...is this a possible role on Mafia Scum:

http://wiki.epicmafia.com/index.php?title=Disguiser


If so, it could explain why DavidParker died last night.

[Cuetlachtli]

The scum who did bus is probably DavidParker or Concerned.

DavidParker is dead. Maybe you're the VI.


Anyways....hey Zach, did you consider this post before you hammered Butters?

Butterfly post your reads on EVERYBODY before you are hammered. k thx.

[Cuetlachtli]

NOTE: DavidParker has offered to replace in for foobert.

I can understand why you would think Concerned bussed Butters. Why do you think foobert (DavidParker) bussed Butters?

[Cuetlachtli]

Anyways....hey Zach, did you consider this post before you hammered Butters?

Butterfly post your reads on EVERYBODY before you are hammered. k thx.

Conceivably he should have done that long before you posted...

... and I didn't hammer immediately after that anyway. I waited until around the time that Butterfly seemed to be posting during the day... but he never posted. He also never reacted very positively to people asking him for reads or suspicions anyway, it was like pulling teeth. Is there a reason for this inquiry? Is there a reason this inquiry doesn't apply to Exilon? (Who attempted to hammer almost right after I did.)

Well we had a couple days before the deadline. You hammered Butters on Tuesday or Wednesday and the deadline was that Saturday. I just thought it was slightly scummy that you didn't give him a chance to respond to me. It is scummy because, hypothetically, scum-Zach wouldn't want newb-scum Butters to give reads right before his imminent death because he might slip up in some way, shape, or form. I thought I would bring this up since you are adamant that you don't want to lynch Ox today, a player I find very scummy. Would scum-Zach have much incentive to double buss his scum partners with potentially 8 townies remaining? I don't think so. I also want to add that when we were scum partners in that one newbie game, you started to distance me on Day 1 and ultimately tried to buss me on Day 2. Meta says that Zach likes to buss when he is scum.

Does this mean that Zach is scum? No. But it serves as a "red flag" and I think it is beneficial for the town to know moving forward.

[Cuetlachtli]

I also see no issue with Zachs hammer BTW.... Butterfly had many chances to try and help the town and failed on each occasion to provide anything helpful, the deadline was something like only 3 days away.

The hammer was justifiable.

3 days is a long time in this particular game. Anyways, I don't think Zach's hammer was all that scummy, but we should keep it in mind if Nacho flips town and Ox flips scum.

That said, I am willing to hammer Nacho once he claims. Nacho please give detailed reads of every player along with your role claim.

[Cuetlachtli]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=225

WHAT A SCOOP!

Does that reluctance to hammer look familiar?

Well based on that game, I can see how town-Zach would think Ex is scummy in this game. But after a quick skim, I think that game and this game have stark differences.

In this game, Butters put hypo-scum buddy Ex at L-2 on page 1. While in the other game, Razor avoided Ex.

In this game, Ex was one of the first players on the Butters wagon, but unvoted Butters and voted Antonio to try and force him to post more, but claimed that he was still for a Butters lynch. In the other game, Ex was "suspicious" of Razor after he was at L-2/L-1, but gave him "outs" so to speak. In other words, if Razor did X, then Ex wouldn't be suspicious of him. I don't think Ex gave Butters any "outs."



Anyways....

unvote, vote: Nacho

Regardless of the outcome of this lynch, I think we need to look at Ox tomorrow.

[Cuetlachtli]

cuet: scum read - seems a bit too sure that butterfly will flip scum.. Interesting post: #368. If cuet flips scum like i think he will, can safely clear concerned as well (david parker (version 1) and nacho were both town).

Basically, cuet says if butterfly is scum, those 3 ppl should be looked at. 2 flipped town upon death. 1 is giving me a town vibe. seems to be some major misdirection. Also, jason is still alive (the one who insists cuet is town). If you're scum and a player insists you are town, you sure as hell dont kill off that player. And jason has been very pro-town all game.

Hey DP, don't you think its odd that half of my scum suspects died during the night? Why would hypo-scum Cuet kill off his scum suspects during the night? Who do you suppose hypo-scum Cuet is going to strawman during the day when all that's left is pro-town players?

[Cuetlachtli]

Hey DP, don't you think its odd that half of my scum suspects died during the night? Why would hypo-scum Cuet kill off his scum suspects during the night? Who do you suppose hypo-scum Cuet is going to strawman during the day when all that's left is pro-town players?

In Newbie 859... you actually did exactly that when you killed Haylen.

And how did that turn out for me? Not that well huh? Don't you think hypo-scum Cuet would learn from his mistakes?

[Cuetlachtli]

After Day 1, I had Foobert's slot as town. I think DP is falling for the scum's trap.

[Cuetlachtli]

well im going to mimic nacho and say jason or concerned. I think it's safe to say one of the two is scum.

Please post cases with quotes.

[Cuetlachtli]

If I learned anything from DP's previous slot is that he is contradictory by nature. For example:

Vote: Zach

Seems to not be contributing all that much, and just asking questions without really trying to help out town (ironic since I've been afk and not contributing but hey!).

Apart from that, i don't get a huge scum vibe from butterfly, so not too keen on a lynch on him atm

.

Could repeat same arguements as everyone else.. But alas I'll save bandwidth.

Vote: The Butterfly

I'm more convinced he [Butters] will flip scum than anyone else.

Those of you that sincerely think the Foobert slot is scum, please annotate Foobert's ISO and DP's ISO starting at post #26.

[Cuetlachtli]

Vote: David Parker

after reading 25 pages; i cba to post a full case just yet...but will do Day four

vote: Millar

Your predecessor coasted through two full days. I forbid you from coasting through another day.

[Cuetlachtli]

Oh and Millar, since you have read through all 25 pages, give us your town and scum reads right now.

[Cuetlachtli]

@millar13: If you're not willing to help the town, then you need to replace out. Town does not need anyone who puts off contents until later. That is lazy and hurt the town. If you're town, then start being productive. Your slot did very little in the game at all and that needs to change. If you're scum, keep doing what you're doing and let us lynch you. You also didn't acknowledge that you once again put DavidParker at L-1, which leaves rooms for him to be accidentally hammered by a townie or a scum making an intentional hammer. The L-1 vote that you failed to acknowledge and your lack of reason for voting DavidParker puts you on my scum list.

FoS: millar13

Cautious? I didn't want to hammer, I've never had any qualms about putting someone on L-1, because I like to get as much information as possible from each day.

Putting people at L-1 early, especially at the time, runs a risk of a scum quick hammer or a misguided townie hammer. If the ends up that the later, this can have terrible consequences for town. Not only would we be left with two townies dead (One due to the lynch and one that gets killed during the Night), there is a high chance that the townie is going to get lynched (With a townie Night Kill the same Night). At best, this scenario will put town at a massive setback, at worst, this cause a scum win.

If you are so concerned with DavidParker being at L-1, why don't you unvote?

FoS: SSBF

[Cuetlachtli]

Reads ATM:

TOWN

Cuetlachtli
Exilon
Zachrulez
jasonT1981
DavidParker

(Replacing foobert D2)

SCUM

Super Smash Bros. Fan
Concerned
Millar13

(Replacing Antonio N2)

[Cuetlachtli]

Millar please find a different game to play, k thx.

[Cuetlachtli]

unvote!

[Cuetlachtli]

Rules:

To vote, you must type "Vote: Lobstermania" in bold.

If you change your vote during the same Day you must "Unvote" first

. If a majority of the players "Vote: No Lynch" the game will move into Night with no deaths.

Way to go Millar, u failtard, you forgot to UNVOTE before you HAMMERED yourself. Brilliant! Per lobstermania's rules, your hammer is null and void. Day three continues...

[Cuetlachtli]

hmm...so you two think Millar's self-hammer was staged? Discuss.

[Cuetlachtli]

A question to Cuetlachtli... why did you unvote Millar when you noticed he failed to hammer and was still at -1....

Because I am not comfortable with any lynch right now. I am still trying to sort out Concerned's claim.

[Cuetlachtli]

how do you feel about whats gone done since you last posted?

Well I just read that he claimed "Mafia Queen" and DP hammered him. So I guess we will see what he flips.

[Cuetlachtli]

gg

I am glad Millar didn't affect the end result.