Mafia 1010 - Perpetual MyLo - Game Over

[Shadow Dancer]

First!

/confirm

[Shadow Dancer]

Once perished, may I blatantly ignore that rule for my Goodbye post I think a force-replace isn't really a threat then any more...

[Shadow Dancer]

What he means is that chance to hit scum is best on D1 (5/12) compared to 2/5 on D2, 3/8 on D3, 1/3 on D4, 1/4 on D5... However, I guess anything is better than just rolling the dice, so: No! Definitely not the ideal strategy...

We could try to further increase our chances by going no lynch, though, can't we?

[Shadow Dancer]

Still, making obviously idiotic suggestions deserves being punished by the first waggon! That also allows me to bypass RVS, there're still no dice available, any way...

VOTE: xRx

[Shadow Dancer]

Don't let yourself be manipulated!

Rule six, as I understand it, won't apply if we go "no lynch" by vote.

Our chances if we go no lynch on D1 and mafia always kills some one (

@mod: can mafia chose to no kill, btw? Would kind of defeat the purpose of this game, wouldn't it?!):

D1: 0% (obviously, no lynch)
D2: 5/11 (>5/12)
D3: 4/9 (>2/5)
D4: 3/7 (>3/8)
D5: 2/5 (>1/3)
D6: 1/3 (>1/4)

So: going no lynch increases our chances quite a bit.

That being said: Let's stop this whole discussion now and start some real scumhunting! Yes: With real discussiun and real votes and a real lynch threat. And I mean that. If we don't find a good candidate we can still talk about other strategies when DL is nigh.

[Shadow Dancer]

EBWOP:

@mod: can mafia chose to no kill, btw? Would kind of defeat the purpose of this game, wouldn't it?!

[Shadow Dancer]

Mafia cannot gain majority, stupid, whenever we mislynch they have to NK one of their own. Before you doubt other peoples reasoning you should try to understand it and the the rules of the game your're currently in. It is called "perpetual MyLo" for a reason. So since my logic is flawless so far, your reasoning is just a plain desaster so far.

unvote. vote ex

[Shadow Dancer]

Exilon is town.

You sound really sure there, one page into the game!
Forget all that LyLo stuff, we've already found our first scum!

UNVOTE: VOTE: xRx

[Shadow Dancer]

First is the worst, second is the best;

VOTE: ShadowDancer... why'd you have to go first? I also don't like all that OMGUSing, man. No spirit.

Jealous?

[Shadow Dancer]

Well... Since we have little margin to lynch town VIs.... I guess this setup is just really swingy, isn't it...
Let's go scum hunting now and decide on tactic once DL is at the door!

[Shadow Dancer]

You're assuming that mafia will just either buddy up on each other or hop with four man on a town waggon... I hope they will do one or both of those things... But I wouldn't bet that we've got a pure VI mafia... Going "no lynch" in a MyLo situation to make it LyLo is standard play, btw. However:

@mod: Is mafia forced to nightkill, or can they answer a "no lynch" with a "no kill"? That seems iportant now. Also: Would you rephrase rule 6 to make clear that it also applies in case of a "no lynch"-vote and explain what exactly you mean by "if deadline is acchieved", please?

[Shadow Dancer]

Wow, my waggon is becoming more attractive, and I haven't even posted anything in the meantime. Scum opportunism...

Sure.

This post comes from a townie's POV. Also, meta.

Sure, xRx, that is waterproof evidence that Ex is town...

LyLo is better for town than MyLo. Period. I won't follow any other logic when it comes to strategic choices. Not if I intend to play for my wincon, that is. If I can imrove my chances of victory from 24% to 34% (!), I'll definitely do that and not ask any one who is almost 50% guaranteed scum for permission.

Your argument that one misled townie is enough to guarantee a mislynch is just not valid. It would be in any normal LyLo, becasue scum can win the game there right awa and needs not to care about any consequences. If scum just jumps on a town waggon in this game, they're pretty much toast.

[Shadow Dancer]

If you want to hear about ma reads: Every single post of you makes me more confident that you

are

scum... However, there're still lots of players who havent' even shown up. So I wouldn't rule out that you'll get rivals on that spot...

[Shadow Dancer]

I don't think you're in a position to judge that.

[Shadow Dancer]

Before you try to set up more strawmen you better learn about the meaning of statistical significance.

[Shadow Dancer]

First of: I never "bitched" about scum hunting.

That being said: I caught you. Since no one else is active at the moment I can only wait for more activity to find your partners.

Oh, and it's three pages into the game and not even all players have confirmed, so you haven't even got a marginal point...

[Shadow Dancer]

It's also no tunneling: There's no one else than you and me...

[Shadow Dancer]

Finally we agree on something Let's stay with that and wait for some other player's contributions, continuing this won't do any good...

[Shadow Dancer]

If you doubt statistics you better come up with one of your own. We aren't in the stage to talk about it, any way.
Rule 7 sucks... Introducing it now means bad planning by the mod...
Seriously, if we mislynch D1 our chances of winning boil down to some mere 10% or something... I'd rather go no lynch two times than challenge that...

[Shadow Dancer]

Hmmm... I think our problem is that in a vanilla MyLo no one trusts any one else... So we've got quote some panic reactions... Readinf those as town is maybe a good idea to go with D1.

[Shadow Dancer]

Did'tn't read your whole argument. Too drunk

Stop playing mafia while drunk.

[Shadow Dancer]

Hmm... In vino veritas...

How ever, being drunk explains pretty well why he mist my points :p

[Shadow Dancer]

mist=missed, lol...

[Shadow Dancer]

What do you guys think of a day 1 mass-roleclaim?

Wow, 12 people c,ai,img vanilla will help a lot, I guess @_@

[Shadow Dancer]

...claiming...

[Shadow Dancer]

I don't have much time to post and am very tired.

Please give me some feedback on these thoughts:
• Since we can only afford to No Lynch once, we should ALWAYS aim to lynch.
• We should ONLY consider No Lynching if we have mislynched twice and REALLY want another day to discuss the next lynch.
• Not doing the above significantly increases the chances of a loss due to a deadline.

In my fatigued state, that seems fairly comprehensive to me and I hope it can put the lynch/no lynch discussion to rest.

Bad plan... But we should not tollerate any lurking... Absens of Whoever is not officially V/LA should not be tollerated... Maybe we should intriduce a second deadline 48 hours befor the real one, after that town should only vote for the agreed on lynchee, no one else. Problem could be players being V/LA over the DL... Maybe we should also rather FoS than vote before the first deadline to make sure that mafia cannot quicklynch.
But you're definitely right, if there's gonna be a problem it's deinitely the danger of DL no lynchs rather than the danger of mafia waggon hopping in unison...

[Shadow Dancer]

@DP: Stop it... Just plain stop it. Antitown behaviour won't help any one.

@MoI: Before I answer any further accusations of yours I'd like you to go back to the post you're citing and understand what I really meant.

[Shadow Dancer]

i) We're not ahead.

ii) scum lynch >>>> policy lynch in

any

situation.

iii) Asking for a replacement >>>> having yourself policy lynched, in any situation!

[Shadow Dancer]

unvote, vote dancer

, the question about the game mechanics seemed scummy back on whatever page, as does his need to control things.

How is a mechanics question scummy?

[Shadow Dancer]

@brian: Nope, I just love an agressive playstyle.

@Magna: So you did not reread and try to understand what I actually said. Fine...

Since no one seems able or willing to follow my thoughts, I think I'll lay them down in a more oredered fashion tomorrow, I'm just too tired to do it right now...

[Shadow Dancer]

@Magna: So you did not reread and try to understand what I actually said. Fine...

Incorrect. I have no trouble understanding what point you are attempting to make. I just find that it seems a little too self-serving to be something that says Town to me.

Then let me explai it to you: I did

not

: Hi, I'm town because of my sarcastic reactions", which is your interpretation.
What I said that this town - every one, including me - desperately needs to stop to be a bunch of pissed of jerks blindly savaging each other. That will just cause town to turn against itself and give mafia an easy vitory.
I honestly think this antmosphere of excessive distrust, as understandable as it is in a vanilla MyLo, only serves mafia.
Undermining any reational strategy debate by calling out "lack of scum hunting" or "fishing for town creds" for it is also ridiculous and only plays into scum's hands. It is very well possible to do scum hunting and neutral discussion at the same time without mising up bot layers. However, scum definitely has an interest in supressing strategy debates by town and they have quite an easy job doing so because of their overwhelming numbers in this game. Thus I consider and will keep to consider most of the attacks against me on this ground antitown and posibly scum driven, my OMGUS votes are well justified.

This in

not

about me or any one being right.
This is

not

about me expecting to follow me blindly.

This

is

about a cooperative strategy of town, which IMO will increase our chances of victory - and they're bad, no matter how one looks at it - and also allows town to seize a certain control over scum actions.
This

is

about a certain level of discussion that is not driven by sublimal feelings of distrust and ego and not disturbed by irrelevant "scum hunting" attemts.

[Shadow Dancer]

What I said that this town - every one, including me - desperately needs to stop to be a bunch of pissed of jerks blindly savaging each other. That will just cause town to turn against itself and give mafia an easy vitory.

I don't like this at all. so far I haven't seen people acting more distrustfully than what is usually seen on normal games, so why are you trying to make this look like 'chaos'?

The lack of objecticity in the attacks against me only allow three conclusions:
1.) The attackers where VIs who did not understand what I was trying to explain.
2.) The attackers where scum, trying to inhibit strategy debates, because a disoriented town helps scum (it is reasonable to assume that at least some of ther attacks had this motivation, could be associated with 1.), of course).
3.) The attackers where just over the top paranoid, thus not able to react rationally, like making their own calculations, actually trying to prove me wrong or to improve my strategy.

Take for example the argument that scum could "much more easily win LyLo by blockvoting" - it's obviously not that simple if scum don't want to hand themselves over oj a silver plate.
Any way, then I make a suggestion that town could prevent that by agreeing on a lynch target without voting - and I receive more flak for it.
That those two attacks on me came from positions contradicting each other should at least make you think how rational the waggon on me is.

In your special case, to me it seems more like you're personally concerned because I called you stupid. So: Sorry for that. I really didn't meant to offend you, if I'd wannted to I'd have had available much more striking words.

[Shadow Dancer]

unvote. vote lowell

Upon reread I do not xRx really scumm any more, apart from his opportunistic "I like SD waggon more and more". I think both of us where more bored than anything, maybe he was really drunk...
Lowell on the other hand just threw a vote on a waggon - also opportunistic - without further explanation and there's also no other contribution by him so far. If you wanna call it OMGUS - well, right now it is statistically rather unlikely that I don't OMGUS vote .

[Shadow Dancer]

@SD:

Sorry for kinda ignoring you. I can get what you say to a certain extent, although I have some doubts as to if it really answer my comment. Still, please answer the rest of the post, if you would. It bothers me when people leave some of my most important comments untouched. I can post the quotes on what I really want you to comment on, if you'd like.

Yeah, better you do that. I am not entirely sure what you're refering to right now.

[Shadow Dancer]

Oh, and I'm going to be on every lurker waggon during D1! I don't think that's the final answer to the question how to deal with lurkers, but it will definitely discourage scum to try and lurk their way through D1. When in doubt, and since going LyLo is now impossible thanks to Max' stupid rules 6&7, let's lyncha lurker!

[Shadow Dancer]

2. Do we

really

want to take that much of a risk when we can't afford to be wrong very often? Do you really want scum to only have to persuade ONE townie in a final-day scenario?

Wrong point of view... Scum does not even need to convince a townie, scum has only to wait until at least two townies agree on a waggon and then be open enaugh in their position to quickly jump on it... However, that most likely already happened and we did not have a quick lynch so far... Doesn't that make you think?

[Shadow Dancer]

They'll definitely try it when it's real LyLo, i.e. when scum has two kills. Chances for town to win are really bad then, any way, but there are counter strategies, though I don't really know how good they might work... I think we should defer this discussion until we really need it...

[Shadow Dancer]

So in an environment where we can only afford two mislynches you want to immediately use one to encourage active scum? What criteria are you going to use to assess which of our 5 big lurkers (Lowell, Quoi, Thief, BrianJ, DP) should be the lynch?

Simple: Standard procedure - waggon one by one and look what they say in defense.

[Shadow Dancer]

36- SD asks rules question [-]

To make this a valid point you have to elaborate on it, I guess.

Any way, like the analysis for the most part

Unvote

.

[Shadow Dancer]

vote quoi

right!

[Shadow Dancer]

@SD:Your OMGUS votes are not really well justified. I can see so for Reck, but you voted me for disagreeing with you and believing that that strategy was scum faking a genuine attempt at helping town. Also you misread me, called me stupid, and didn't even bother to comment on my post which answered to you, simply changing your vote to Reck in a contentless post, which effectively does not make any mention to the reason you advocated as being the one for the OMGUS vote.

So, wanna keep burying yourself, or...?

Point is: You did not disprove me nor really bring up a convincing argument why me scum would have made that proposition. You have a right to disagree with my proposition, to make a better one, improve mine, disprove mine, give arguments against mine, but that hardly justifies an attack like that.

[Shadow Dancer]

@Ex: Why don't you let xRx defend himself?

[Shadow Dancer]

So why open an avenue of argument that you then say is better deferred until later on? What scum-hunting effect does it have?

Don't ask me, it's not my fault we still have this discussion. But there are some people here who seem convinced I must be scum for proposing turning this inot LyLo.

[Shadow Dancer]

All these WOTs give me headaches

[Shadow Dancer]

Omg. What kind of lame vote is that by david... With the nullsum of contribution he's made so far he'd be hardly qualified to vote at all in this stage of the game.

Unvote. Vote DP

There's no "too scummy to be scum"!

[Shadow Dancer]

@xRx: I prefer serial posts over WOTs most of the time.
@DP: Maybe you should stop loving and play this game instead? It's a pretty rational thing to do so, it has nothing to do with your personal preferences and feelings
@brian: Simply: No. But you can look into my Wiki article. Or maybe in one of my marathon games... But maybe you'd just realize that I've got both a flexible scum and town meta. Every game is different, you know. Maybe you should get rid of your "I'm cop and have a guilty on SD" mentality - that was newbiw 958. This is a different game!

@Quoi & Thief: Do something.

@Quoi: Telling Thief unhelpful, though it's right, while remaining not helpful at all seems a bit like hypocisy, don't you think?

@Ex: That attack was just lame. Give me one simple reason why scum would come up with it to "fake helping town" as you said (I don't cathegoricall say they won't, but I consider it rather unlikely, but that's based on what I would most likely do as scum, and sometimes I just do the unlikely, just to confuse people... WIFOMatics!).

[Shadow Dancer]

Nope. I am voting DavidParker right now.

[Shadow Dancer]

@Max: Don't blame it on me,

I

unvoted.

@dest: I haven't got a clear read of brian so far. I dislike his attack on me for obvious reasons, especially because he bases it on another we just finished together where I was mafia and he investigated me as cop, resulting in massive tunnel syndrome... (And Agressive play is not a scumtell but more or less a necessity).

What sparked your interest in brian?

[Shadow Dancer]

@magna: I'd say xRx needs to learn to WIFOM, or rather to avoid it when possible.

But seriously, DavidPaker quasi just told us directly to our faces: "See, I am a Lurker!" (and his few posts are helpful only to him - to avoid prods). Has any one played with him before? Is he a troll or something?

[Shadow Dancer]

@magna: Haven't we played a maraton game together with Quoi? I think he was as useless there as he is here, if I remember right?

Other than that: If we take hypocrisy and lurking as scumtells, lots of players should be lynched by now and this game would be incredibly easy to win...
I just don't have a good feeling about it right now.
However, if Quoi, Thief or SB are all town and nonetheless lurking around we maybe have just too many VIs on our side to wi this any way.

@Quoi, Thief, SB: Please start contributing

now

!
I don't like lynching scum just because of lurking.
I hate mislynching because of VI anti town lurkers even more.
And I'd definitely like to leave the state of prod voting lurkers already.

[Shadow Dancer]

@destructor: Let's see what brai does next, OK.

[Shadow Dancer]

edit: brai=brian...

[Shadow Dancer]

@Ex: Sorry man, but according to your loging every one in this game who ever dared to vote any one acted majorly anti-townish, especially when that one made the scond vote on a waggon, possibly enabling - as you say - scum to just do a united quick hammer. As has been pointed out multiple times by now - anyway it's just basic common sense - that is just not likely to happen.
In your words: Mafia wants -

needs

- to blend in as town - they just won't do it! Not now, at least. Period. I consider LyLo vs. MyLo the least concern in mafia considerations in this reagard. The difference boils down to a 1/4:1/3 chance of victory... But that discussion has been modkilled... So I won't pick it up again ;..(

And lurkers finally joining in would be better than lurkers just being quicklynched, don't you think... How ever, I do not care about scum lurkers. DP is high up in my scumlist now.

[Shadow Dancer]

@dest: I don't want to discuss that until I have seen

brian's

genuine reaction to my approach. Sorry.

[Shadow Dancer]

Maybe I should just lean back and enjoy the show... Let the lurkers fight each other!

[Shadow Dancer]

@Ex: Sorry man, but according to your loging every one in this game who ever dared to vote any one acted majorly anti-townish, especially when that one made the scond vote on a waggon, possibly enabling - as you say - scum to just do a united quick hammer. As has been pointed out multiple times by now - anyway it's just basic common sense - that is just not likely to happen.
In your words: Mafia wants - needs - to blend in as town - they just won't do it! Not now, at least. Period. I consider LyLo vs. MyLo the least concern in mafia considerations in this reagard. The difference boils down to a 1/4:1/3 chance of victory... But that discussion has been modkilled... So I won't pick it up again ;..(

This is awful.
1) According to my.. loging... what?
2) "anyone in this game who ever dared to vote any one acted majorly anti-townish" <-- hum, when did I say this? It doesn't follow what I wrote. AT ALL.
3) Are you serious?

especially when that one made the scond vote on a waggon, possibly enabling - as you say - scum to just do a united quick hammer. As has been pointed out multiple times by now - anyway it's just basic common sense - that is just not likely to happen.

It's basic common sense yet you yourself were pointing it as being a dangerous possibility on #92 . On #110 I even went as far as to comment on that and completely destroying that danger, pointing yet again an argument made by you which only superficially "helps town". (= fake attempt at being productive.). You never commented on it, either.

contradiction much?

You basically say it yourself again: You have no point at all. The contradiction lies in

your

logic, it appears as soon as I pick up your lame argument. Don't try to pretend now that the "Oooh, mafia will just kill us in LyLo" came from me (to be fair, that issue was first raised by the mod, though, he made this setup as flawed as it is).

[Shadow Dancer]

We did play in a UPick TV themed Marathon with Quoi on Moving Day. He replaced in to a Mafia slot and pretty much lurked is my recollection. I think NoPoint was also in that game but got lynched early.

Not sure how behavior in a Marathon style game in any way a good match for the normal environment.

QFT.
I thought about another game... But maybe I am wrong... I thought Quoi was town and I lynched you as mafia in LyLo... But maybe I am totally wrong here... I cannot find the moving day games anywhere in the forums or archives

[Shadow Dancer]

@ex: Oh, loging = logic, but you could have deduced that from the context if you'd ever dare to think further than your nosetip...

[Shadow Dancer]

Explain how the bolded sentence makes any sense from a Pro-Town mindset. I understand the second sentence but Town should like to lynch Scum regardless of the reason. Also, please tell my how you reconcile the last sentence with this post –

The problem is that it is hard to determine if some one is lurking because he is mafia or because of any other reason x that comes to mind... And most of the hard lurkers here seem to have a history of lurking. The problem is that our margin for mislynches is minimal in this game.

[Shadow Dancer]

@nopoint: Before any one posts any more you should recognize rule no.2 of this game and just STFU.

@Max: Since you're finally here: Please confirm brian's hammer and lock the threat.

[Shadow Dancer]

I'm back. Catching uop tomorrow.

[Shadow Dancer]

I'm european...

[Shadow Dancer]

Sorry, couldn't catch up due to illness. Will do it ASAP now.

[Shadow Dancer]

No, you aren’t. Saying you support something without actually voting isn’t being on a wagon.

Saying you don’t want the Day to end so soon while doing ZERO scum-hunting for Lowell’s partners is scummy.

Really? If I vote him, then we'll be at a danger of a quicklynch-ends day, which is not what I want. So I 'AM' (did you ntoice the '' ? Guess not.) in his wagon. What is there to scumhunt? My main suspicion is not around, join that with my other suspects and I pretty much have the whole scum team nailed down already. Of course my attitude changed, people only need to scumhunt when they have to look for scum, and at this point, I've searched enough. (Also blame real life stuff for the slight lack of participation.).

And it is a bit of a demotivator to say something and then have someone (Rena, you) completely ignore it, and then ASK ABOUT IT. I know you've been both reading up, so why did you miss me specifically?

Yeah, you are missing the Town mindset. You aren’t scum-hunting today, you aren’t voting for your ‘top candidate’, and you are whining about the day potentially ending while doing nothing constructive with the time.

I'm still not ready with my readthrough due to illness... But this post was just WTF... What you describe here what is going on in your brain is definitely the absolute opposite of a pro-town or scumhunting mindeset.
And your continuous insistence on me as your key suspect - mainly because you feel offended if I do not nurse around the clock - is just ridiculous... You have a righ to be offended. That is really all I have left to say to you about that matter. I do not want to give you any more stage to do your "twist it around" show. It is now

your

turn to untangle

your

contradictions.
You're answering that quote wrong.
I am waiting for Shadow Dancer to come. When he comes, and states his piece of mind, I'll decide if I should keep going at it or just declare that there isn't nothing else to be done for today. Why would be not voting for my top candidate scummy? That simply does not make sense. And I'm not whining, I only stated that fact once. But do keep blowing things out of proportion, it makes your argument look amazing.

What constructive?
SD is scum.
Lowell is scum.
DavidParker is scum.
BrianJ was scum.

We need three scum caught to win out of five. They're all there. Wanna prove me wrong? Go ahead. What scumhunting is left to be done?

[Shadow Dancer]

EBWODP:

No, you aren’t. Saying you support something without actually voting isn’t being on a wagon.

Saying you don’t want the Day to end so soon while doing ZERO scum-hunting for Lowell’s partners is scummy.

Really? If I vote him, then we'll be at a danger of a quicklynch-ends day, which is not what I want. So I 'AM' (did you ntoice the '' ? Guess not.) in his wagon. What is there to scumhunt? My main suspicion is not around, join that with my other suspects and I pretty much have the whole scum team nailed down already. Of course my attitude changed, people only need to scumhunt when they have to look for scum, and at this point, I've searched enough. (Also blame real life stuff for the slight lack of participation.).

And it is a bit of a demotivator to say something and then have someone (Rena, you) completely ignore it, and then ASK ABOUT IT. I know you've been both reading up, so why did you miss me specifically?

Yeah, you are missing the Town mindset. You aren’t scum-hunting today, you aren’t voting for your ‘top candidate’, and you are whining about the day potentially ending while doing nothing constructive with the time.

What constructive?
SD is scum.
Lowell is scum.
DavidParker is scum.
BrianJ was scum.

We need three scum caught to win out of five. They're all there. Wanna prove me wrong? Go ahead. What scumhunting is left to be done?

I'm still not ready with my readthrough due to illness... But this post was just WTF... What you describe here what is going on in your brain is definitely the absolute opposite of a pro-town or scumhunting mindeset.
And your continuous insistence on me as your key suspect - mainly because you feel offended if I do not nurse around the clock - is just ridiculous... You have a righ to be offended. That is really all I have left to say to you about that matter. I do not want to give you any more stage to do your "twist it around" show. It is now

your

turn to untangle

your

contradictions.
You're answering that quote wrong.
I am waiting for Shadow Dancer to come. When he comes, and states his piece of mind, I'll decide if I should keep going at it or just declare that there isn't nothing else to be done for today. Why would be not voting for my top candidate scummy? That simply does not make sense. And I'm not whining, I only stated that fact once. But do keep blowing things out of proportion, it makes your argument look amazing.

[Shadow Dancer]

You bet I'll do that...
My reads right now:
scum: lowell, ex, mole
town: wicked, magna, Rena

unvote. vote: lowell

Sleep in hell, scum!

[Shadow Dancer]

Yep, that was the hammer, every one stop posting immediately.
@Mod: Whereever and whoever you are, get your arse in here1

[Shadow Dancer]

Wow, 3 votes, 1 suspicion and no rasoning at all. I hope you do not expect me to actually defend against this...
Well... I'll count DP out, he remains but a nuisance.

Well... Obvscum Lowell is successfully lynched, Ex quitted - remains Mole on my scumlist

vote mole

[Shadow Dancer]

wicked was also

wicked

voting for me!

Fixed

[Shadow Dancer]

So your case is combination of fluff, misreading, misrepresenting and pretense, cobbled together by an absense of any logic and some obvious ill will? Oh dear, you can be thankfull that I had really solid town read on nopoint...

Well, I have another game to catch up and little time, so I'll just answer your question by now:

Shadow Dancer, I asked you earlier but you never answered: Have you ever played with Exilon before? If so, what was his allignment?

No, I never played with ex before.
You seem very insistent on that particular question which makes me believe you have a point to make - so: What is it?

[Shadow Dancer]

mole aren't rodents Other than that: Nice résumé

[Shadow Dancer]

Alright, so here's the deal: I asked the mod to replace me when Exilon texted me and asked me to ask the mod to replace him, and for some reason I wasn't replaced.
I can keep on playing, but at this point I don't see me having the time to go back and catch up on everything, so someone's going to have to summarize or the mod will have to replace me.

I seriously do not like this attitude at all. What does ex quitting have to do with you at all?

[Shadow Dancer]

Now to this abortion of a case:

The case against Shadow Dancer:

ShadowDancer's vote for xRx looks very bad. The motive makes sense (bandwagoning to get out of the RVS), but it is obvious that ShadowDancer tried to make sure he gave himself room to backpedal:

Still, making obviously idiotic suggestions 1: deserves being punished by the first waggon! 2: That also allows me to bypass RVS, 3: there're still no dice available, any way...

VOTE: xRx

There are three examples of Shadow Dancer giving himself room to backpedal in two sentences. First he justifies his vote by stating that xRx's comment was bandwagon worthy. Next he justifies the vote by saying that it allows him to bypass the RVS, and lastly, he justifies it by saying that there's no dice available. There is no reason for so much justification of his first vote of the game, especially when not even questioned on it.

Overjustification? Backpedal? What? I hope you are not as narrown minded to expect me to 1.) cathegorically do a totally unjustified random vote first & 2.) do not expect me to stick to a really early vote, made when hardly any one had posted, and not change it (i.e. backpedal) at all?
Besides that: You totally overlook the quite high level in playfullness in the initial slugfest between me and xRx.

He explains why no-lynching might be a good strategy, yet follows it up by saying:

That being said: Let's stop this whole discussion now and start some real scumhunting! Yes: With real discussiun and real votes and a

real lynch threat

. And I mean that. If we don't find a good candidate we can still talk about other strategies when DL is nigh.

The bolded is the part I have a problem with. He states that no-lynching could be beneficial yet decides here that lynching somebody is the way to go all in the same post.

You have not the slightest idea about the psychology of a mafia game, have you?! How do you suppose we go scum hunting if we cannot effectively pressure them because we won't hammer them, ay way?

Post 31: Shadow Dancer seems pretty confident for a vote with such poor reasoning.

Besides your obvious missing sense of humour, which makes me wanna laugh - hope you realize at least that there is a sigificant difference between

seeming

and

being

. That being said: Yeeehaaa! Success!

Post 34: Useless post from Shadow Dancer.

Useless fluff from wicked.

Post 123: I dislike this post from SD. He says that his attackers might be scum trying to start strategy debates, yet he is the one guilty of trying to start strategy debates in postsOne might think reading and understanding the read is not exactly rocket science You are taking something and turn it inot the exact opposite. This is why you should be thankful that I had such a strong town read of nopoint. It requires a tremendous amount of either foolishness or ill will to do this.
Before I forget my kindergarden-niveau counter: I accused scum of trying to

prevent

, not to

initiate

strategy debates - more than one time. It is totally unitelligible how you could have possibly missed

that

...17, 21, and maybe even post 25.

One might think reading and understanding the read is not exactly rocket science You are taking something and turn it inot the exact opposite. This is why you should be thankful that I had such a strong town read of nopoint. It requires a tremendous amount of either foolishness or ill will to do this.
Before I forget my point - but I have to warn you, it's really kindergarden-niveau: I accused scum of trying to

prevent

, not to

initiate

strategy debates - more than one time. It is totally unitelligible how you could have possibly missed

that

...

Post 137: Not liking the vote switch from SD. He had previously stated that he had "caught" xRx. Also one of the reasons for his vote is that Lowell's vote for him was opportunistic but SD's vote also looks opportunistic.

Even if we for one moment assume that I was really 100% sure about xRx: There are 5 scum in the game in we gotta catch 3 of them. Having one is not the end of everything at all.

Oh, and I'm going to be on every lurker waggon during D1! I don't think that's the final answer to the question how to deal with lurkers, but it will definitely discourage scum to try and lurk their way through D1. When in doubt, and since going LyLo is now impossible thanks to Max' stupid rules 6&7, let's lyncha lurker!

Bad suggestion, and lots of justification for the suggestion.

Justification (for anything) = bad
And it wasn't a bad suggestion at all. But maybe you wann argue 'bout that. I that case: Please come up with something at least halfway substantiated, otherwise I won't even mind noticing you any more.

Also, several times Shadow Dancer has brought up how unlikely the chance of town winning is. What motivation does he have for saying this as town? He has plenty of motivation for saying it as scum.

Core assertion originally was: Aiming for LyLo instead of MyLo improves town chances of victory by about 42%. Quite a good reason to talk about that matter, eh? However, that discussion has been modkilled once and for all, so do not even attempt to reinvoke it!

Simple: Standard procedure - waggon one by one and look what they say in defense.

Another bad suggestion from Shadow Dancer.

scum hunting = baaaaad. We quickly and steadily reach subterranean levels of argunmentation, lol.

Overall, Shadow Dancer isn't really scumhunting. Read him in iso and you'll see what I mean. Most of his posts are useless.

Besides not giving any conclusive evidence for this assertion in your whole gigantically bloated WoT - pretty much the epitome of uselessness - the points you brought up so far make me doubt your qualification to even decide what is useful and what not.

Lastly, let's take a look at his votes:
1. A random vote for xRx with lots of justification despite it being random.

It was a justified vote . thus not random. You are complaining about a contradiction that you yourself propose. But maybe that's the newest "en vogue" thing that I'll ever understand

2. Votes Exilon for supposedly misunderstanding the rules. That is always a huge scumtell.

Not knowing about the own win cindition and game mechanics is not exactly pro-town.

3. Votes xRx stating he's "caught" scum simply because he gave a town read. More weak reasoning despite being so confident.

Repeating yourself...

4. Switches over to the Lowell bandwagon. A very very very bad vote. First of all, its an opportunistic vote. Second of all, the Lowell bandwagon was the alternative to the Shadow Dancer bandwagon, so it makes sense for Shadow Dancer to switch over as scum if he was interested in his survival.

Repeating yourself more... Seriously, every one has an opinion, but if you've got nothing to back yoursup then JSTFU. It's in

your

best interest to not make a fool of yourself.

5. Shadow Dancer votes for Quoi. No real problem with this vote but he doesn't explain at all why he is voting him. He just pretty much agrees with his scumbuddy Thief.

So you do not accept voting for a lurker as a valid reason. Assuming wrong premises does not validate your point any further. But I also remeber that you found votes suspicious when they were justified. From that queer point of view at least the "no real problem with that" part makes sense and seem consistent.

6. Shadow Dancer OMGUS votes DavidParker.

I voted him because he is and was but a useless weirdo.

7. Shadow Dancer hammers Lowell.

That is of course a major indication of my guilt beyond all doubt

8. Shadow Dancer votes Molestargazer. The reasoning isn't bad, but I disagree with it.

This is a highlight. You really exept no given so far as good reason? You disagree with - ?? - nothing?? The funnny thing is - this is consistent with what you earlier said (scummy because of "overjustification") - but still just another indication for the sad fact that one cannot take you and what you say seriously at all

So, most of Shadow Dancer's votes have been really bad ones.

Results of my votes so far: One dead scum, no mislynch - objectively speaking my votes were really good for the most part - and you fail to provide any convincing counter-argument.

For those that didn't want to read this whole post. Here's a summary of why Shadow Dancer is scum:

*Shadow Dancer feels the need to add a lot of justification to some of the things he says/posts in the thread.

You thing by suggesting this bogus a third time it will magically turn into a valid point, right?

*Shadow Dancer suggests a no-lynch yet very soon after states that there will be a real lynch threat.

The problem here lies in you not understanding my proposition and not knowing minimal basics of mafia at all.

*Many of Shadow Dancer's posts are useless.

Your "opinion"? Hypocrisy? Repeating things safe you the need to support them?

*Most of Shadow Dancer's votes have been bad ones.

*BlablablaIstillhavenotvaidpointstoutterblablabla*

*Several times Shadow Dancer has brought up how unlikely it is town will win.

Which is true, which you could easily check - if that is not beyond your perceptivity... Other than that - what was your point here?

[Shadow Dancer]

Shadow, shut the fuck up. Exi quitting had NOTHING to do with me quitting. I just realized how far behind I was and told the mod it might be worth it to go ahead and replace me. He didn't do that, so if I'm here, you're all going to have to realize that I just started a new school and will be too busy to go catch up on 19 pages.

Calm down, you suggeted that coherence yourself:

I asked the mod to replace me when Exilon texted me and asked me to ask the mod to replace him, and for some reason I wasn't replaced.

But I am aware of the fact that temporal correlation does not atomatically suggest causality. I just thought you had a reason to also bring up ex's replacment request.

[Shadow Dancer]

EBWODP:
This is a highlight. You really

accept

no given so far as good reason? You disagree with - ?? - nothing?? The funnny thing is - this is consistent with what you earlier said (scummy because of "overjustification") - but still just another indication for the sad fact that one cannot take you and what you say seriously at all

[Shadow Dancer]

EBWODP:
This is a highlight. You really

accept no reason

given so far as good reason? You disagree with - ?? - nothing?? The funnny thing is - this is consistent with what you earlier said (scummy because of "overjustification") - but still just another indication for the sad fact that one cannot take you and what you say seriously at all

[Shadow Dancer]

Sorry, wicked, but as long as your ignorance is as

huge

as this, I think we shoouldn't talk any more.
You keep repeating yourself: Realize that that does not help any of your points becoming actually viable. Most of your points are just plain ridiculous, fluff without any justification, quites some of them are contradicting common sense

and

themselves. That you dare to call me out for contradictions that

you

produced

yourself

just shows how little you have thought this through. In that you are exactly like Exilon. On that ground your obvious sympathy for Ex and your almost equally obvious antipathy against me are no wonder. However: You should realize that your personal preferences are one of the most damn awful foundations to base any serious mafia playing on.

Seriously: All this is just an huge uneccessary diversion from serious scum hunting. You definitely should stop your narrow minded tunneling and look for some

real

suspects.

[Shadow Dancer]

I can see a lot of potential buddying, bussing and all kind of strange interactions between Thief, DP and Mole.
I'll try to untangle this... We really should have lynched DP D1. The whole Quoi waggon was just really really bad and there are hardly any connections I can draw from it...
However, I think there was a hole lot of scum on the Quoi waggon. And by that I mean at least four (we already have two confirmed so far). I'll try to undersatdn the dynamics behind it.

@wicked: As food for thought: You mentioned Thief as your other top suspect - what is about him?

As mentioned, Thief's attitude towards DP seems really strenge and inconsistent to me:

He reasons for his waggon hop on lowell with kind of a soft defense of DP:

I am Thief and I approve of this wagon.

Vote: Lowell

Mainly because out of the lurkers I like DavidParker better.

No further explanation why he "likes DP better".

D2 he suddenly opens with the unambiguous indication that he thinks DP is scum:

ITT: DavidParker put scum at L-1, scumbuddy #1 (Reck) jumped off as if to appear to be preventing a quickhammer.

Again no reason for his change in opinion at all.

Only one post later DP appears in his "town" list:

Not much to say, this game should be wrapped up soon:

TOWN:
Magna
DP
[...]

Then he enters D3 with this jewel:

They're all lined up in a nice little row for us now David. Let's knock 'em down.

Buddying? Blatant scum communication? At least he seems very sure that DP is the same allignment as he is. Or rather: He is suggestive of just that.

@Thief: What is your opinion about DP and how did it develope during the course of the game?

[Shadow Dancer]

Reading the second quote again, it seems a bit ambiguous, but I guess what Thief actually means that Reck is lowell's (?) scum buddy.
Still: Thief seems really convinced that DP is town. And I'd really like to know why.

[Shadow Dancer]

@wicked: Seriously, what makes you think of all players DP is town?! And if ":D" is really all you have to say to a blatant buddying attempt by a player who so far only gave some unsubstantial comments and lots of opportunistic fluff, then I don't know if you even know the meaning of "scum hunting".

Funny part is that it almost seems like you want to convince

me

I am scum, which is pardoxal, you should really try to convince

others

.

If you really want me to "defend" against any of your points, please: Make a priority list and let's dissolve them one after the other, in just another oversized WOT every point that any of us could possiblymake is lost. What is your

core

point against me?

[Shadow Dancer]

Also you have been ignoring the mole case so far. Instead you ask him for his vote on me. Are you really so fixed on havin me lynched that you are willing to ignore everything else around you? That is seriously bad attitude. You know why? Because then you have dedicated yourself to a mislynch and no plan B. And that'd seriously be the end of this town.

[Shadow Dancer]

Upon rereading mole he

really

looks bad. His whole defense of Lowell is seriously as bad as Lowell's self defense. I do not understand why he puts so much effort into defending Lowell. He negelcts scum hunting and is argumenting really hard against magna who is pressing the lowell case - but his whole defense is just a huge strawman, totally ignoring magna's case and bringing up some indignificant meta. And while all that looks like a chainsaw defense he is not even seriously suspecting magna to be scum, as it seems.

[Shadow Dancer]

Also moles attacks on nopoint are almost exclusively fluff. I seriously think he is the best lynch for today.

[Shadow Dancer]

And then there's his hypocrisy, pointing out my and no points "aggression" and how he does not like it (though he does not even consider it a scumtell, so more fluffing to make pseudo-points), while there is prdominant element of aggression and sarcasm in his own posts...

[Shadow Dancer]

I really wanna hear more of ani before, though.

[Shadow Dancer]

And then there's xRx. It's high time I add him back on my scum list. He hasn't been helpful at all, using the same lame lowell defense and trying to ridicule people left and right...

[Shadow Dancer]

@ani: How fancy. I guess that's enaough to dodge a prod for another 28 hours

[Shadow Dancer]

@Thief: Why do you think DP is scum now?
Why did you originally think he is town for the vast majority of the game?
Why is [insert other player on your scumlist here] on your scumlist?

Just for the record: xRx dropped another strawman, pretending I was talking about only his current behavious while I was unambiguously summarizing his behaviour during the

whole

game.

@xRx: This is not a defense at all, btw, as you definietly know. If you really wanted to replace out you would have renewed your request to the mod instead of playing happy capslocking.

[Shadow Dancer]

And you think that will safe you from being lynched? Or do desperately

want

to be lynched?

[Shadow Dancer]

;..( ;P

[Shadow Dancer]

The whole Quoi waggon was just really really bad and there are hardly any connections I can draw from it...
However, I think there was a hole lot of scum on the Quoi waggon. And by that I mean at least four (we already have two confirmed so far). I'll try to undersatdn the dynamics behind it.

You took part in the bandwagon. Now you are saying it is bad?

It was bad.
You have another opinin?
And, btw: You don't do any research before blurting out your points? Do you?

@wicked: Seriously, what makes you think of all players DP is town?! And if ":D" is really all you have to say to a blatant buddying attempt by a player who so far only gave some unsubstantial comments and lots of opportunistic fluff, then I don't know if you even know the meaning of "scum hunting".

I think he's town because he agrees with my reads.

That is just naive, egocentric and self-righteous

If you really want me to "defend" against any of your points, please: Make a priority list and let's dissolve them one after the other, in just another oversized WOT every point that any of us could possiblymake is lost. What is your core point against me?

My core point is that you have contributed hardly anything. For example, today you have done nothing but defend. You are hardly scumhunting right now.

At least I have provided cases against mole, xRx and party DP and Thief. In the meantime you have only overfocussed on me. But I can help you with the defense part: I won't defend against your gibberish any more. Is that OK for you?

Also you have been ignoring the mole case so far. Instead you ask him for his vote on me. Are you really so fixed on havin me lynched that you are willing to ignore everything else around you? That is seriously bad attitude. You know why? Because then you have dedicated yourself to a mislynch and no plan B. And that'd seriously be the end of this town.

I am not ignoring the case against him. I just don't agree with it.[/quote]

And even to find

that

out I had to ask you first. I guess your reasons for not agreeing are:
I) I found my skum: It's SD
II) Shadow's on the mole case, hence mole's town.

Am I right about that?

[Shadow Dancer]

This is a good post apart from naming me as having interactions between DP & Thief, then not mentioning me at all in the rest of the post.

Na, I fucked quit some things up there. My case on thief as presented in that post is quite inaccurate, still I definitely want a satifactory answer from Thief.

[...]

Explain, please?

I cannot find any convincing explanation for the vehemence you defeneded Lowell with.

[Shadow Dancer]

I'd like to hear other people's opinion on wicked, btw.

[Shadow Dancer]

Hi, mafuyu.

[Shadow Dancer]

You already got way too much of a response. I told you to lay down

one

importat point, so we could maybe find an agreement on at least that one. I won't write another huge adress-it-all kind WOT, we already had that one and it only resulted in running in circles around lots of basically pointless stuff.

However: The Quoi waggon was bad, because it totally failed to achieve its purpose. And that was a very good reason to abandon that waggon.

[Shadow Dancer]

@Max: As rena pointed out already he/she (?!?!) is supposed to have voted mole, not me. Her ISO says so, too.

@wicked: My thoughts on lynching me: Stop fucking tunneling, %@&/%!.

You are losing us this game![/b]
About lynching Thief: Maybe. I want him to stop ignoring my question about his position to DP before, though. That is: Keeping up the ignorance would make me really like to vote him.
However, I'd prefer lynching DP first then, any way. There definitely

is

a strong connection between the two of them, including what seems belateral buddying.

(minor) FoS Thief

...

@ani: Wow that's cool. Much contribution. I think its time now to carry over my suspicion of ex to you.

major FoS ani

. What makes you think Thief is town? Who do you think is scum and why?

Also

FoS DP

by default. I think I won't ask him to become useful

@Rena: For the most part I really love you (at least your are the only really helpful player in this game atm ) But

not

shring your reads is most likely not the most helpful thing to do in this situation. If you are lynched now we've got nothing and you won't be able to tell any one any more...

@mole: Being under suspicion is not at all an excuse for not sharing your thoughts. Making good cases is a town tell, you know?

@mafuyu: How is it?

Also, to complete my list:

FoS mafuyu

. Not to suggest that lurking and passivity remain the easy way out of this game. Remember that both confirmed scum in this game had a lurking history. Given the general excessive number of anti-town players and lurkers in this game, I consider it quite likely that they have considered that a good tactic in pre-game talk.

Wicked is town with a scumdar that's a bit off this game.

Wicked is probably town.

Please

talk to ohim then. I think mafia is just now laughing in our faces because they think "wicked will never let go of SD and as long as he keeps tunneling town is unable to act".

[Shadow Dancer]

Damn, that means I still have 5 scum reads, one to much to just start eliminating them

[Shadow Dancer]

You cannot be serious.

I) That hardly qualifies as a convincing explanation. I can hand the idiot card reight back to you and thief and wicked. Intherestind that we agree on Rena and DP though... OH, i see, rena as well as destructor where undeniable and majorly agreed on pro-town reads and DP is a uniformly agreed on jerk... I sense the opportunistic pinky finger you try to sell me as the hand you are reaching out...

II) You have not at all explained anything so far. And I hardly believe you "think" that, but if you cannot even look up your own five-ish something posts in ISO that pretty much tells all about your will to participate in this game.

[Shadow Dancer]

Also SD has started to flail around and mass contribute once he was under pressure.

I had two states in this game: mass contribution and V/LA. I think while extended V/LA (as with me) is not exactly pro-town, it is definitely not scum and a very obvious reason for non-contribution. Interesting that the first thing that looks somewhat like a point that comes form in this game is just an awkward misrepresentation.

[Shadow Dancer]

In more recent news, ani is scum with SD and Thief.

I am very interested to come to know how your little twisted brain draw that conclusion

[Shadow Dancer]

Oh, and, btw, DP, it is quite obvious that you are trying to act too scummy to be scum. That, however, cannot be townie-motivated. And there your "anti-town != scum" house of cards goes...

[Shadow Dancer]

....whaaaat ever... Not convincing at all...

[Shadow Dancer]

Seriously wicked, reading your posts just makes me wanna vomit all over hte place.

You are asking

To make this clear: I have a hard time thinking

you

couldn't be scum. But your predecessor nopoint was my best town read D1 and your posts can very well be interpreted as narrow mindedness instead of scumminess.
Mole and Rena agreed on that, as you moght have seen, btw.

Also if I'd suddenly mark you as scum and FoS you or vote for you - what would yo say? "SD is OMGUS voting me, and he said he was sure I was town before. He is scum!" of course...

What you are doing is not searching for indications who might be scum.
What you are doing is searching for indication that I am scum under the premise that I definitely am and have to be brought down at all cost today.
That is not how scumhunting works.
That is not ayting reasonably.
This is not how anything should be done, damn it.

[Shadow Dancer]

@DP: If you cannot deeper fathom what, as you claim, your gut is going to tell you no one will listen to you any way.

@wicked: And you should not listen to him, either.

@rena: Didn't you want to provide some more points in the case against mole? Whom else do you think is scum/we could lynch?

@mafuyu: What's about not writing a catchup post? Who is scum and why? You ought to have something more to say then "I wonder why Sd still lives vote SD I get cold feet unvote" after 22 pages, don't you think?

@mole: Using "my opinion does not count because lots of players consider me scum" is a lame excuse. There are also some players that announced that they think you're town or that they disagree on the waggon on you. Also you seem to be one of the few players in this game that are not complete morons. I explicitely appreciate your particicpation, even if my vote is still on you.

@ani: I really consider you a premium lynch in the meantime. You have not contributed one usefull thought so far.
Also, I think you should explain this quote:

This town is filled to the brim with idiots.

SO MANY IDIOT SCUMS, SO LITTLE TIME!

Do you suggest that al the "idiots" (in your eyes) are scum.
It is interesting that you seem to know quite clearly who is scum.
And why does that cause temporal problems for you?

@thief: You have disappeared again. You have not answered my questions so far. You better do not think I will just forget I ever uttered them if you just sit still long enough. I won't. I want an answer

today

or I'll do what ever is needed to lynch you.
You also werent very explicit about your suspect list, either, btw. How about explaining that a bit further?

However, it might be quite interesting that unlike every other day we still have no leading waggon. I'll take a look on the flow of votes and see if I can see any difference between the other days and today. My thesis is that scum will try to avoid waggoning their own kind today.

[Shadow Dancer]

Hmm... I have my doubts, too.
My main point was that mole was hardcore-defending lowell D2 for no apparent reason, defnitely not to mark MoI as scum which raises the question: Why did he feel the need to defend another player - who then turned out to be scum - instead of leting lowell defend himself. His only response so far was "that he wasn't aware defending was a scumtell" or something along these lines. That is not a sophisticated answer, however.

Any way, mole not being your prefered lynch means there's at least some one else. Who is that and why?

That DP does not want to lynch mole, but wants to go for me or ani could be interesting, if mole flips scum.

Thief tries to provoke mole, though he should know better by now... Also interesting.

I think lynching any one of mole/thief/DP might be helpful right now.

However, I would really like to see ani dead. Two somewhat susoicious players on the same slot naturally double my suspicion.

[Shadow Dancer]

[...] not for any particularly sophisticated reason [...]

Maybe you should find out what bothers you?

[Shadow Dancer]

Can't be since I am not ;P
Actually, tell me about that "thinking" thing you mentioned.

[Shadow Dancer]

wicked, I hope you bang your head against the nearest wall until it bleeds after you see my flip.
And please: If there is a chance, learn what

thinking

means!
I see DP as a pretty safe lynch for tomorrow, btw. If he isn't obvscum now, he does not deserve to survive this game anyway.

@mafuyu: ani showed nothing at all and wicked only posted empty fluff. Any way, you're also likely scum, as well as ani, so I don't really care what you have to say. I hope you'll suffer hell trying to talk your heads out of this mess tomorrow.

@mod: Come in and show those idiots how naively they have allowed themselves to be manipulated by nebbish scummy bastards!

Good night.

[Shadow Dancer]

I really wondering now, DP, why you played this game as you did. I found another game with you and you - you know - actually played that one.

However, with the high amount of VIs (or VI-like behaving) town players I this game was impossible to win as town.

I cannot see, for example, how Rena would ever have come under suspicion with the polarity as it was...

And, you know, waggoning wicked was at least as stupid as all the shitty play wicked himself provided.

[Shadow Dancer]

Seriously, mole, you made a mistake, but if you would not have gone more or less into hiding after coming under suspicion on D3 you might have been able to swing it around.
I am explicitely refering to DP's unexplicable uninterupted totally senseless permajerking, wicked's unmatched narrow-mindedness and Quoi's null-achievements on D1.

[Shadow Dancer]

I shouldn't have let you escape, ani. If ex had not replaced in exactly the right moment I would have pressured him to pulp on D3.

Looking at the scumlist:
-brian: Unwilling to play? Just going for an unneeded quickhammer maneuvre suggests this.
-lowell: Effectively suicided, and still some townies were to focussed on whoever knows whatever to even realize it.
-ex: Started so heavily to contradict himself after his lame initial maneuvre while trying to press on the emotional level, and ani was just useless jerking & lurking around...
-thief: Another obvious and useless lurker. Under any normal circumstances he wouldn't have survived any game.
-dest/rena: Just brilliant. I cannot dey that, especially that PM-maneure, although I think that was just another huge mod error. A mod should not be a henchman of scum to that extend, especially in a game that is already designed in heavy favour of scum.

It's depressing

[Shadow Dancer]

Oh, I forgot xRx... Just useless, annoying, disturbing... And mafuyu was just weird... What's this "speaking of yourself in 3rd person" thing expected to achieve?!

[Shadow Dancer]

No, masons or any other PRs would pretty much destroy the basic idea. This lives off of the vanilla flavour. However, a mod should not constrain the ability for town to chose wether they wanna play MyLo or LyLo in a way that completely deinies that option, that is just patronizing and inherently flawed.

A very worthwhile way to ballance this would be to tweak the wincons, for example mafia requiring four mislynches to win instead of three. There may be more inspired solutions than this one.