NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[singersigner]

lolz.
Confirm.

[singersigner]

VOTE: Benmage for not having an avatar.

[singersigner]

UNVOTE:

Does this mean I'm at a serious disadvantage for not really knowing or having played with anyone else in this game? lol.

[singersigner]

@Nhammen/Xite's WoT: QFT.

At this point, there's not a whole lot of new information/questions I can bring to the table, but I agree with hiphop (/Xite's response) about the bandwagons. With this many people, chances are a mislynch (unless obvscumslip) will occur, so the best way to extort more reactions is by finishing a bandwagon D1, and seeing where that leads us in the next day.

From what I can tell, Dana's case on Frank is weak, and if they're a scum-pair, it's only to distance himself later, saying, "no hey, look what I did. why would I vote for my scum-buddy??" Unless Dana can provide a better defense of himself, or a better case on someone else, I'm going to VOTE: danakillsu, putting him at L-2 by my votecount.

@Xite...I find myself inclined to agree with your case on Frank, but for now I suppose we will have to wait and see what happens.


And damn you people, you couldn't have spread your responses a little thinner while I was at band camp all day?? That was a lot to catch up on! lol.

[singersigner]

I'm a cop. Breadcrumb in iso 23 "Could Of Played". Will post more at around 9:30 CST.

Not sure I buy it. How easy is it for scum to slip in one little thing after playing a poor game (as previously lain out by other players, e.g. self-contradictions)? If you were really the cop, you needed to play a much more cautious game than the one you've been playing.

However, I will UNVOTE: for now, since there's not really a way of proving anything right now, and it's a fool's play to risk lynching a cop the first day.

[singersigner]

wow, you all realize believed that fakeclaim and breadcrumb? *facepalm*

Haven't we all been saying that it's not necessarily a belief in the claim, but more so a disbelief in lynching a claimed cop D1? Most of it's been skepticism, with Bunnylover basically laying out why it would be unwise to lynch him D1, anyway. I don't know why you would think otherwise...

Stop acting like you

know

you've got scum; both his and your cases on each other were weak. If I didn't know any better, I'd say you two are playing some wacked up scum-team game with each other, crucifying one to make the other look that much more innocent.

[singersigner]

Another person I would be up for lynching could possibly be Xite. I am not going to vote him, as I think he's voting me, and I don't want to OMGUS, but I'm definitely going to FoS: Xite

It's not OMGUS if you have a legitimate reason to vote for that person (

Duh

). This was a just so wrong on so many levels.

Also, on the votes coming onto me, whatever. I know I'm town, and I've been attempting to post better. All you all by voting me is going to increase my spam/one liners and decrease my ability to scumhunt and be offensive because you'll be putting me on the defensive.

1. That's a nice AtE there. Care to continue?
2. Your ability to scumhunt is not at all defined by the rest of us. You can choose to stop defending yourself anytime and find even just

one

person scummier than you.

Then

we'll see what happens with you. Until then,
3. Haven't you ever heard that "the best offense is a good defense"? From what I can tell, your defense SUCKS.


VOTE: Furcolow

[singersigner]

I think posting a list of who you think is aligned where is seriously one of the worst moves you could possibly do on this site. Seriously, are you just coaching your scum buddies for if/when you get lynched today, so they know who you'd like to focus on after you're gone? Or are you that dumb of a townie that you're giving scum everything to make their strategy with?

[singersigner]

but if dana really is a detective, he should check Jdodge.

What happened to OMG R U SRS?!? HE'S SOOOOOOO SCUM.

[singersigner]

I love the direction this thread has been moving in as far as votes and reasoning

I'm assuming that's because all the heat's been taken off you for at least a little while?

In any case, let me just put this out there...DavidParker's a bad player. I don't think he's been productive ONCE in the last couple games I've seen him play in. He false claimed at least twice (in both of them, not sure how many other games he's played). But he was a VT in both of them. And now he's willing to lynch a claimed cop on D1...ugh, DP, just ugh...

I'd vote/FoS him...but I don't think his stupidity right now is worth it. We'll see what happens later...

[singersigner]

DAVIDPARKER, AAAHAHHHHHAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

Why, DP, why? Seriously. You're willing to put yourself under suspicion on D1?? You are the worst player I've ever seen on this site. EVER. If you were smart (and your claim is in fact accurate), you'd've kept your claim to yourself, investigated dana tonight, and then see what you came up with tomorrow. That way you wouldn't have to out yourself. We have time to make a couple mistakes, but only if our PR's don't commit suicide every damn second. Now, for all we know, everything you say is a load of BULL.

Ugh...wth...

[singersigner]

Third, if Parker is scum, I can see singer being scum and a possible visa versa.

Why?

[singersigner]

lol. You want the links to where he fake-claimed? Or maybe he would kindly oblige to post them himself. And believe me, DP is beyond coaching.

Why are people less likely to suspect DP for fake-claiming? It's very clear in his meta that it's something he does, regardless of his alignment. I don't think the fact that he fake-claims makes him any less suspicious of being scum...it's just that much more frustrating to deal with him clouding our judgment in case he's town. I'm not opposed to a policy lynch of DP if he doesn't start playing more pro-town/contributing.

[singersigner]

Uh, huh...and your point is...?

MY point is, he's not good for the town. I want to see where this Frank lynch leads us, and then see if DP can answer some questions for us tomorrow (assuming he makes it through the night). Otherwise, I don't want to waste my time, or the time of anyone else, playing with him if he can't get his act together for the third time in a row (from what I've seen)...man, he's just a huge WIFOM in itself...

[singersigner]

What's even more interesting is how singersigner got caught

contradicting

misinterpreted.

I never claimed to

know

anything regardless of alignment. That comment was meant to show that "regardless of alignment," DP is detrimental to this town, and EVERYTHING he says needs to be taken with lbs. of salt.

Ugh, DP, I hate you SO MUCH (not really, but in that game sort of way).

Also, way to start contributing, Kise. Nice to know you're still around.

[singersigner]

I think Wraith is worth taking a look at tomorrow...but not today. Right now, I think we need to see what will come of Frank's lynch, especially now that we have two claimed cops running around...

Frank, I'm curious as to how you're interpreting DP's counterclaim, with your vote still on Dana.

[singersigner]

Wild idea: Is it worth anything if both the claimed cops targeted each other tonight - perhaps even self-target to check sanity?

Hmm...you bring up a good point...
First off, it doesn't make sense for them to check each other, since we would still have no way of knowing if the results are accurate.
Second, is it worth self-targeting tonight, essentially "wasting" a night? I suppose if they both agreed to do it (and they're both true claims), then it might work. But then I'm afraid that the mafia will use that to their advantage since they'd know that there's no risk of being targetted tonight...

Is it possible to have two SANE cops?

[singersigner]

Frank, I'd like it if you showed us what you breadcrumbed (I sure as hell hope it's not after you had more than a few votes on you, because if so, you're no better than Dana). I'm assuming this means you're claiming, though you haven't

technically

said you were doc. And why would you claim now?? I don't think it's going to help your case, and if you somehow got the heat off yourself and on to someone else, having kept your mouth quiet would've boded well for you later. You know, so you could actually be helpful to town for once.

[singersigner]

Just want to say I knew DavidParker was lying. At least his gambit worked this time. Lynch me if you will, but if you are I'm not expending any effort to defend myself. I'm tired of getting lynched as town and want to move on.

I haven't liked ConfidAnon's play. So that's where my vote goes.

Vote: ConfidAnon

1. It's funny that right after someone else says something about not putting a votes on someone to be able to say later "I knew this and this all along," you go and say it.
2. Can you at least give us something more to work with?

Bunnylover...I'm sorry, but yeah, you should feel dumb. But at least you're giving me VI vibes instead of scum ones, yeah? Props for that?

@.@...you're active, I'll give you that. But you also replaced in, which means you have the advantage to come in right away and "scum-hunt" based off of what everyone else has been saying, or at least pretend to, gain our trust because you "know what you're doing and getting down to business," only to throw us off later. I also don't like your blatant exchange with Xite. Why him? I see you taking a lead from Xite's active scum-hunting, as no one's been terribly suspicious of him so far, and make-shifting it into a "town-tell" for yourself.

FoS: @.@

Dana, I'm inclined to believe your claim. I think DP was full of it again (gawddamnit, three games now...), but none of us had any way of knowing he'd be

that

stupid, three times in a row. Huh...he might just be setting himself up for a fantastic mafia game in the future...
Anyway, you did what any smart cop would do N1, and I'm sure mafia took advantage of it knowing that your investigated would be "wasted" on someone they knew wasn't in their faction.

No, I don't actually have a vote yet.

[singersigner]

Seen their play, all these would normally stay in the game long.

What do you define as "play that normally stays in the game longer"? And do you mean on town's terms or scum's terms? Those are two very different game plays, since one could get you lynched during the day, and the other could get you NKed, and very dangerous to bring up since it only invokes a whole lot of WIFOM.

[singersigner]

i have someone in mind, but it is too late for me to gather all the info, so I will have this case tomorrow.

Why is it too late?

many cops I have seen ask for suggestions. If you want me to go with my reads, that's fine, I'll be more than happy to do so.

The latter. At this point, since you're still alive, and there's not much of a way to prove your claim false, fishing for ideas is starting to sound like you're looking for who we think is scum, for you and your 'scum-buddies' to use to your advantage. I'd rather you just play the game you would as if you'd never outed yourself. That way you're allowing town to still scum hunt in their own way without relying on you, you know?

I hope that made sense...
In other words:

I usually investigate the people I find scummy or who others have found scummy in the thread

Also, I may just be naive here, but why is Wicked's assessment of there being a SK so sketchy? It's either that or a second faction of mafia, right?

These are either players that aren't noticed a lot, or players that seem to be quite experienced and probably are aware of the things to come, rather then that they are playing a short-term game. Mostly the less aggressive players. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few scum there.

I definitely agree with your assessment of why those people might look scummy. But I think that I would have to look over each of their isos to see if I really agree with all of those players really being that "scummy" enough to group them all together for the same reason. I guarantee they're not all posting that similarly.

Has anyone looked at nhammen's interactions with anyone else?

[singersigner]

To follow up on that, when I looked back at nhammen's posts, they were pretty hefty, potentially fluffy in some cases, but I don't think so for the most part. My theory is that he seemed so pro-town active scum hunter, that there might be a second mafia faction that found this threatening in case he was really town...and just got lucky that he was mafia. My suspicions are now in who nhammen pointed out in his WoT, and who he really focused on...verses who he didn't focus on. If there are two scum factions, we really have to be careful, since both will be actively scum-hunting for the other, right?

When I can keep my eyes open more consistently, my plan is to look into nhammen's interactions more, and try to do a little VA from it and see where that gets me. For now, sleeeeep.

Side note...what the heck does IGMEOY mean? I've seen it several times here, and it's not on the wiki, so I'm forced to play my naive hand once again...

[singersigner]

I don't get the poro vote nor this....explore a different avenue....what you want people to aimlessly follow, or to question your vote....could've saved some time and already explained, but go ahead and do so now._

QFT.

I'm in class right now trying to read up on things, so I'll be able to post more thoughts later.

Also, I'm glad the thread explosions have been keeping to a minimal, lol.

[singersigner]

@Wraith...I'll agree with Shanba about really liking your latest posts. I'm inclined to believe you are pro-town for this, and think that you make a good point about CA and nhammen being a scum pair...but we'll see.

It's also interesting the point you make about CA getting on your case about parroting, when he very clearly did the same thing. Xite had also made a point to point out that I was parroting, too...then why would they "overlook" CA...

Why haven't you placed a vote yet?

I don't agree with your assessment of Xite being "very, very town at the moment." Why don't you think he'll continue being pro-town? Also, I don't really think his "tunneling" or overly confident 'scum-hunting' his very pro-town. I've seen people use the excuse "well that's just how I play," and while it might be, it still doesn't do us any good to not look at others. It's honestly giving me a Fate vibe.

I think there is some sort of bus going on here, whether it's Wraith/Mysterio, or Xite/Wraith, Flinter/Mysterio, I don't know. But looking back, I think Mysterio's vote is opportunistic on Wraith, and now Wraith is fighting back in all his glory (I can't tell if that makes him scummy or not). Then he proclaims he's confident with his vote on Wraith...I'm thinking he proclaimed this thinking no one would go back and look at his reasoning, since everyone's posted more legitimate reasons than he did.

VOTE: Mysterio

[singersigner]

1) Scum can do this too, and considering it came AFTER suspicion on him, I think he is VERRRRRY scummy for it
2) He wasn't parroting, he was sheeping. There is a difference, and if he kept doing it I would suspect him for it, but one or two times is a null-tell for what should be obvious reasoning. Parroting is taking someone else's case, rewording it, and then spitting it back out and calling it yours. That's scummy automatically.
3) Ooh, are you gonna make a case against me? PWEEEEEEAAAAASE?
4) Fluffyfluffyflufffluff, oh wait, PARROTING lulz
5) And what was that who said about opportunism?

1. You're right, but at least it gives us the opportunity to look back and see the assessments he's made himself to see if we agree with them. Is that not what we want? Even if they're scum?
2. What's sheeping?
3. I won't do it unless I think you're worth making one on. So far I haven't, so, uh, good job.
4. You ARE silly when you just get off work.
5. First off, if your silliness is affecting your grammar, I'd prefer you stop being silly for a bit. Second of all, opportunism comes from thinking that you can pretend to have a case on someone, but not really. I don't really feel the need to follow the Wraith wagon, since to me, his playing poorly is not indicative of playing scummy. I legitimately don't like the way Mysterio has been playing, so if you need me to lay it out for you when I have the time tomorrow, let me kindly oblige.

[singersigner]

Bunny, what was your alignment in the aforementioned mafia game?

For the record, we're not to talk about the aforementioned game as it is still ongoing, and whoever brought up the meta on Bunny about that should've known better. Especially Bunny who responded in kind. Please end this now.

[singersigner]

It was things like this, it was really only scummy because it seems like a cry for town points, but I'm gonna have to ISO you as well... damn, these cases are gonna take forever.

Are you really so stupid that you can't commit to one lynch for the day? Yes, there are more than one scum, but hello, we can't lynch them all at once. Why don't you concentrate on lynching one scum at a time, unless you're only pretending to care about grouping them all together.

All this speculation about scum teams is really making my head hurt. I wish people would stop posting as if everyone's reactions to everyone else is indicative to their alignment with one another. It rarely works that way because it all comes down to WIFOM. "Well if I were scum, why would I react this way to this person, etc."

@Xite...I would really just ask you to come up with a case that we can agree on today, or just stop pretending you can call out all the "scummy" actions of everyone else who even remotely disagrees with you. Also, I no longer think you know what you're doing as much as I did before.

That is all.
(fyi, my boyfriend edited this for me, sorry for drunk posting/reading through posts, I'll be in a much better mood tomorrow, just didn't want to forget how stupid that sounded, even though I'm not as sound of mind, and if he even thinks of counter-arguing my statement using my soundness against me...wudda bitch)

[singersigner]

first, I said that, not wraith I think. Give credit where credit is due

Yeah, my bad, it totally was you. I just got the quote tag wrong, but the post was meant to be directed at you, not Wraith, anyway.

It's not just people who disagree with me, in fact, the people that disagree with me and have a REASON for it actually look more townie to me. I'm looking at posts and reactions, that is all.

(this is also in regards to your snide comment about Wicked ISOing players) Maybe I've just interpreted your posts wrong, but it seems to me that you're willing to throw any player under the bus if they disagree with you, that's all. Like, you're the most townie of townies that anyone who disagrees with your logic must be scum.

I can commit to one lynch for the day, but that doesn't mean I can't put my cases out there. What if I get nk'd and I had a list of who I thought were scum and nailed it but never put it out there? Tunneling is not your friend, so please stop thinking it is.

It's funny that you think I have any strong opinion about tunneling. One, because you very much tunneled D1 with Frank, and are/have been doing much of that with Wraith. Two, because I think whatever helps us catch scum is effective, so it's a shame that you're willing to just write-off a scum-hunting technique that when done correctly and in the right way, can really help town.

Basically, it doesn't seem like you're willing to allow a pattern of scummy play to form before completely ISOing someone. You make it seem like you've caught scum, but then "keep other people in your line of sights." In all honesty, with this many people, someone's bound to just make one scum-slip that you just have to catch and call them out for, not try to build a case on whatever you can find. To me,

that's

scummy.

[singersigner]

I can't understand how you all can still believe I'm scum after all the smart posts made in my defense by people like Wicked and Shanba. But if you all want to be gullible, be my guest.

This post is silly. It reeks of AtE.

[singersigner]

test post for flay.

Uh, what?

[singersigner]

Hahaha, I just got burned by the preview edit post saying "you cannot make a post so soon after your last one." I had to wait two seconds. lol.

[singersigner]

1) [selfmetaignorablerant]Haha, no I wouldn't be surprised if I got lynched sometime during the day. People always find me scummy, but for the most part it is effective. And I don't call out everyone that disagrees with me. I call people out for the way they post and what they say. I tend to be a read between the lines player[/selfmetaignorablerant]
2 and 3 contradict each other, therefore I will not respond to them until you decide which one you're going to go with.

1...reading between the lines is good, but be careful about misrepping people. That can have a very negative affect indeed.
2...I don't get it...how are you interpreting that as a contradiction?

[singersigner]

@flinter: I believe scum would fake a daykill. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book. But, here, Xite's explanation isn't as stupid as I expected it to be - saying he did it to get people listing suspects other than Wraith seemed rather useful. He's not obvtown for the gambit, but I haven't disliked his play ever since we were going at hiphop early on. Speaking of which..

I agree.

@Xite...I always look forward to your posts.

Kise, you're being more than ridiculous. Calling someone as not just scum, but the GODFATHER is an unbelievable strange claim.

QFT. I have yet to hear a logical explanation for this.

@Reck...if you can't catch up, and you haven't been able to post any content because of it, I'm not really sure what anyone in the game could point you in the direction of to get a good read on what's going on. I know the Mod asked you not to replace out of the game, but...

With that being said, I'm getting a town-vibe from Reck anyway, and not in spite of, but

because of

his perpetual V/LA status.

[singersigner]

I've seen all the WoTs, and I'll be commenting on them tomorrow.

At first glace...Xite, make up your mind? Putting a vote on someone doesn't actually mean you've convinced us that you've made a decision on who you think you should vote for. You made a shpeal of not tunneling before, so make sure that's not what you're doing here for the wrong reasons, k?

[singersigner]

Wraith is town and his bandwagon is going nowhere. In fact, nothing is really happening. I say we bandwagon flinter or Benmage instead.

Care to give anymore explanation as to why?

[soapbox]Ok, here's the thing I don't get: why do people tunnel on defenses, as opposed to finding scummier players? I've always been more convinced of not voting for a particular person by someone else bringing up/making a case on someone who is stronger. The best defense is a good offense, right? It's stupid to

continue

disagreeing with why people think you're* scummy...chances are, you're not going to change their mind if you've fucked it up that much already. Stop clouding your posts with useless information (i.e. wimpy defenses/excuses), and actually scum-hunt. At least if we mislynch, when you flip town, we have your legitimate thoughts and feelings about who else might genuinely be scum. kthx.[/soapbox]

*I say "you" generically for anyone who has a wagon forming

[singersigner]

OH...
I read all of Newbie 965 (Wraith's first game, where he so happened to be scum). I think he legitimately did alright for a while, and played a much different game than he's playing here. Much closer to the belt, which he's clearly not doing now. I don't think anyone is going to convince me to hop on that wagon.

[singersigner]

For all you know I'm a Jester.

Ewww.

[singersigner]

I'm not pushing a wagon cause I'm not telling people or strong arming people to vote wraith

Why not? If you're really town aligned, and believe you have legitimately found scum, it would be nice if you brought that to our attention other than just saying "vote, Wraith, he sucks, so nyeah."

I think all of this is scummy but I am going to sleep on it, I may be changing my vote in the morning.

I don't like how people broadcast that they may or may nor be as confident in their vote as they want us to think they are. Vote when you feel necessary, stick with it, and stop giving us this bullshit crap about how you "may or may not" feel the same way in the future. No shit, Shirlock. We all "may or may not" change our votes depending on reactions, future scummy/town behavior, etc. Oy vey...

PS: I'm activity checking tonight. At that point I'll decide on a deadline. If there is anyone specific you think could use a prod, speak now.

Can you prod nham, I'd like to ask him a few questions

(for the dim witted that was a joke)

For future reference, if you don't have anything productive to say, don't say it. I don't think that just because you only have one vote on you, it means you're in the clear, therefore giving you leeway to post fluff.

[singersigner]

CA was just prodded in another game of mine, too.

I've been busy with band all day today, and it's the first home game tomorrow, so I might have time to post better content mid-afternoon, otherwise I'll be gone all day tomorrow, too. Expect something for sure on Sunday.

[singersigner]

I've seen all the WoTs, and I'll be commenting on them tomorrow.

I just realized I posted this on Wednesday, so 1) I suck for not following up on that, and 2) I underestimated the amount of time I would have from then through this weekend. I've been able to follow this game loosely, and will do my best to go back and re-read the 4-ish pages that have been fairly chunky with content since then. My plan is to post thoughts tomorrow night, but I warn you, I'm hypothesizing that it's mostly either going to be agreeing or disagreeing, since a lot's been laid down already lately.

[singersigner]

Im gonna go back about 10pgs to reget my grasp on things.

Yeah.

What I'm going to say is this. I don't think Wraith is scum. But if it gets down to the deadline and no one else is convinced of anyone otherwise, I would rather lynch him to get information out of it, than not.

That being said...see above quote...

[singersigner]

And also, I agree with Robbnva about potentially investigating Xite tonight, if only to confirm he's town. He posts the most beefy stuff of anyone, and I'd like to know if the people who agree with him are agreeing with town, or their scum-buddy. We can go from there.

[singersigner]

I like how everyone knows the maxim of "don't direct the cop", yet every game someone feels the need to breathlessly mention it, as if any cop, despite also knowing said maxim (and probably being an egotistical douche), wouldn't already know he wasn't going to be directed anyway by some random chatter. High drama.

Dana's a silly cop. He'll investigate whoever he wants, and I would hope that he wouldn't just take the word of one person telling him to investigate one person. Just putting that out there.

[singersigner]

Wraith, if deadline approaches, will you self-hammer (or vote, if you don't have enough votes to be at L-1) if no one else does?

[singersigner]

Sigh...
I can't believe you haven't lynched Wraith yet and are forcing me to post a fluff post like this just to keep from getting prodded. Just watch the deadline, okay?

Do you even care about what else is going on? Or are you checking out?

[singersigner]

What I'm going to say is this. I don't think Wraith is scum. But if it gets down to the deadline and no one else is convinced of anyone otherwise, I would rather lynch him to get information out of it, than not.

Why not Mysterio?

Simple numbers.

[singersigner]

I don't agree with extending the deadline. Two players who got replaced aren't going to make the difference in finding scum at this point. All they would do if either confirm what everyone else has been saying all along, or bring in someone different, completely derailing the wagons we have now. While I admit that could be a good thing, I'd rather wait til after this lynch, so the replacements don't interrupt too much of the information we can gain from the lynch at this point. They can use the night phase to catch up. The only reason they would have to worry about not being able to catch up during that time is if they're scum who need time to strategize after having caught up using/wasting our time.

[singersigner]

Yeah, it's a toss up. Whatever you guys want to do. Honestly, this game is loaded, and I could probably use the time, but don't really care to take it. I want to think laterally at this point, and the only way to do that is to keep the game moving. There's bound to be other wagons we can analyze their reactions to later. This is only one, you know?

[singersigner]

Robbnva...ISOs don't give all the information. ISOs work after they get the general idea of what's going on, and then from there, they can hone in once they realize the context of that particular person's posts. You're basically asking them to place a vote on incomplete information. Way to go.

[singersigner]

Okay, first, read the thread.
Second, Why am I scum?
Third, Why am I scum if you die tonight?
Fourth, why only Wraith or Mystie?

I lol'd. Tomorrow, I will answer your second question. As in, D3. The third question does not apply, because I never said that, and the fact that you don't know the answer to the fourth question shows that your first sentence was hypocritical. Oops.

You either assume the doc will protect you, or you're scum. Huh...

[singersigner]

DH, iso the Mod. lol. That'll give you everything you need to know that I assume you're asking us to give you.

[singersigner]

Unvote, Vote: danakillsu

Yeah. Well, Xite, seriously, ISO yourself. Compare the length to War and Peace. Did you expect that I read every word of it?

Preview edit: That's true, Poro, and I never said I wasn't accountable, but to make a whole case on someone who didn't care about the game much in the first place and ignore what I have to say is foolish. Just wanted him to pay attention to my aside.

DH, if you're going to do us the "favor" of replacing into a game, can you please READ THE GAWDDAMN THREAD? Fuck, even

I'm

still at least trying to read up on everything and keep everything sorted out in my head. evilpacman hasn't even finished all his reads to put a vote on someone yet. Be smarter.

This whole dana WIFOM thing is making me sick...we need a votecount...I just got engaged...that is all for now.

[singersigner]

now if this bandwagon continues (BAD FUCKING IDEA) I would like the mod to PM me when I am L-2 or L-1 because I seriously refuse to post in this game anymore if town is going to fail like they are if they lynch me.

So...you JUST implied you were good at mafia...

[singersigner]

If Xite is scum then he's played an amazing game. Unless something game-changing happens I'm not going to support a Xite lynch.

I agree. I hate reading his posts sometimes...but gawddamnit if he's scum.

[singersigner]

I've NEVER IN MY LIFE seen someone so fantastically amazing at mafia resort to AtE. That's something I've only ever seen with n00bs and scum.

[singersigner]

let's test the cop

Vote Xite

Xite comes up scum than lynch dana

I just lol'd.
If Dana is scum, claiming cop, then he would know who is town.
If Dana is town, is the cop, then he would know who is town.
Their is no logic in lynching the people he lynch and is saying he is town.
The only way to prove is what he saying is true is by a tracker or you lynch him to see what he flips.
You are trying very desperate to get rid of Xite.

Vote Rob

No I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, I just saw this and was like lol.

@Xite: I don't think Gorrad is going for the typical policy lynch. Gorrad doesn't know how Wraith normally plays, and therefore it wouldn't be a policy lynch (right?), he wants Wraith lynch because he knows scum isn't going to do it as it derails votes.

OR
If Xite is scum, Dana is scum false claiming and protecting his scum. We test Dana's result.

However, I do not believe Dana is lying, as there hasn't been a CC, and every argument we've had about him hasn't convinced me that someone's been trying to bread crumb a counter claim and push his lynch. The only person I might see that happening with is Robbnva...but again, I don't think so.

[singersigner]

Ok, more role speculation...

There were two mafia flips, with no flavor indicating there's another mafia faction. My guess is that there's a third party pro-town player. I don't believe that Dana wasn't roleblocked TWICE IN A ROW (since the roleblock still would've occurred N2 even though Benmage was killed). I agree heavily with Kise (and whoever else agreed with him previously) in that if Dana flips scum, Xite will be scum, too. The only way to really confirm anything is to kill Dana, so Dana, take one for the team. Sucks for us to lose a cop if you flip pro-town, but at least we'll know if your results are/were accurate, and I'm sure the information we can gain from it is ultimately invaluable to town.

The general consensus is wanting Dana to explain himself. I agree, but I also think not much is going to sway the opinions of anyone else, including mine. A lot rides on Dana's flip, so I truly believe it needs to happen.

Last thought...Dana, you've played really shitty this entire game. Whether as town, or scum, we'll find out. Either way, it was not good.

PREVIEW EDIT:
Shanba, yeah, you might as well get everything out now before the hammer/twilight is over. You never know what would happen during the night. Also...I might've missed something, but why do you think you'll get NKed?

Gorrad...wtf? What the hell is that even supposed to mean? "work on addressing it during night phase"?

[singersigner]

@singer: I think he means "read the topic and analyze Shanba's reads while it is locked and he has nothing to do."

Yes, but my question was alluding to what makes him think it will matter tomorrow (i.e. he will make it through the night, etc)? And please don't ever answer for someone like that again.

[singersigner]

I don't think that's very telling. Every second kill has been the mafia, so I would only assume the second kill from last night was by SK or vig. That's just my take on it, though. Take that as you will.

[singersigner]

Bunnylover's too easy right now. I think people are overlooking Xite's defence of Dana, on D3 AND D1 (D1 was more of a deterrence to the Frank wagon than a defense of Dana).VOTE: Xite91

I'm interested in seeing how he'll blow up at this one, since that's all I've seen him do this game.

[singersigner]

Mod: I voted Xite, not pacman.

Sorry, your vote was a bit hidden through all that. It's fixed now.

[singersigner]

V/LA through Sunday night.

[singersigner]

Here, Xite...

Ohai, look how that wagon grew.
OMG! HI FRANK WANNA ATTACK DANA MOAR?>???!
That's right, he is bussing so frickin bad that I feel he should just admit it at this point.
seriously, how did no one else catch that?
By the way, I call it bussing because the case sucks and he's attacking so violently so that later he can go look at me guys, I caught scum, that means I'm town.
In case people can't think for themselves

WHAAAAAA????????
I feel like I'm steering the town in the wrong direction how? Because I'm not tunneling? At least I'm not throwing spaghetti, as you are.
Wait, Rob's a townie that hasn't posted as he should? Are we giving scum a free pass now?

Already discussed, reasons already given, and this topic is done for nao plox

Confirm insult: flinter

also,
bolded. My defense on bunnylover
the rest other than the insult? That was all to everyone, I was trying to point out that dana is STILL not the lynch.
Just letting everyone think on this one for a sec. In order to catch scum, you have to think like scum, so start thinking the way they would think, then you would realize why they did exactly what they did and you would understand that dana is not the lynch for today, tomorrow, maybe, but we have to wait and see what happens tonight

Confirm confirmed super-confirm vote: Wraith

1) Scum can do this too, and considering it came AFTER suspicion on him, I think he is VERRRRRY scummy for it
2) He wasn't parroting, he was sheeping. There is a difference, and if he kept doing it I would suspect him for it, but one or two times is a null-tell for what should be obvious reasoning. Parroting is taking someone else's case, rewording it, and then spitting it back out and calling it yours. That's scummy automatically.
3) Ooh, are you gonna make a case against me? PWEEEEEEAAAAASE?
4) Fluffyfluffyflufffluff, oh wait, PARROTING lulz
5) And what was that who said about opportunism?

When I say "blow up" I mean take things out of proportion, insult unnecessarily, etc. You remind me too much of a style someone else has, and I don't like it. You can play aggressively, but not obnoxiously. All you do is bully people into things, and looking back on your ISO, your distancing from Dana is SOOOOOOOO scummy. Normally I wouldn't judge someone for being wrong with their reads, but your play has seemed more anti-town aggressive, than pro-town aggressive.

Oh, and these are just some examples from the first half of his ISO. Keep looking at it. It's kind of...entertaining.

[singersigner]

Oh, I get it, you're voting me because you don't like my playstyle?
That's really funny.
And if you look at most of those quotes, they're not blowing up at all. Maybe a lot of sarcasm, but get used to it hun. It will happen.
Sides, check any of my other games. What do you see? The same thing?
Holy shit a miracle.

lol. I'm quoting this because this is

exactly

what I'm talking about. I don't care if it's in your meta to play like this. It's ineffective. My vote on you isn't because I don't like your play, it's because this play that I don't like looks scummy. Also, it's cute that you pointed out that "they're not blowing up at all, it's sarcasm, etc" when I JUST said that what I meant by that was "insult unnecessarily, etc=lots of sarcasm." I'm completely with Wraith on this one. Sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear.

Also, Wraith, you're right about the WIFOM thing. It seems like he was doing plenty of both: calling dana "scummy as hell" but never fully accepting the wagon on him, THEN deciding he's innocent and using WIFOM. Thanks for pointing that out.

Mawr Xite votes plz!

[singersigner]

1. Xite asked for examples, so I gave them to him. That wasn't my case.
2. I agree with Wraith's case, only contributing more, in the overall scheme of things, of why I feel like I can no longer trust Xite's analysis of the game.
3. Did I say Bunny's behavior was ok? I'm sick and tired of people allowing what could potentially be the most anti-town play in the game, to just slip by. If Bunny IS scum, he won't just magically become innocent tomorrow, and town can lynch him then. Xite's smarter than that, and I feel like if he's allowed to continue, he's only going to continue mudding the town's scum hunting.
4. Hmm...you didn't notice my "blatant buddying" with Wraith in my ISO#35? It makes me feel like you're grasping at things to make me look scummier now that I've actually put myself out there to make a case against someone. And now I wonder why Xite's buddying of UA D1 went unnoticed...
5. You're right, I let my emotions get the best of me sometimes, but that doesn't mean that I have to agree with the way others do the same.
6. You're pointing out the one thing that's condescending in my post, and completely overlooking all the other condescending comments of Xite's...who has consistently made them this entire game. I really don't like that you're doing that. It's called misrepping...or hypocrisy. You choose.

[singersigner]

I feel like there are questions/comments I have to go back and address...

I'm getting some tests done in the hospital so I definitely won't be able to post til much later today if not tomorrow.

Cheers.

[singersigner]

I would say you are the one who are bussing. You keep bringing up the fact that you were pushing for Dana lynch, trying to earn townie points for knowing a person was scum.

Vote: Wraith

So let me get this straight. Your whole case on Wraith is that you

think

he's bussing. Not that he's actually done anything scummy? Alriiight...

[singersigner]

Fine, if I have to shoot myself and flip town to convince you idiots, I will.

Unvote Vote: Wraith

I hate people who do this. Are we too close to a deadline right now? Don't we still have at least a day left?

[singersigner]

EBWOP: And what I really mean is, you need to STFU. No one's gunna buy your AtE. I personally didn't think you're scum, but you need to figure out a better way to keep me from changing my mind, cuz voting yourself at this point (with only two votes on you) is certainly not the way to do it. What you're telling me by doing that, is that you're willing to uproot basically any sort of wagon going on right now, and starting a wagon on yourself (yes, I realize you didn't actually "start" it...but you're certainly giving it momentum). AKA: DUMB.

[singersigner]

Hey guys, it's another home game, which means I'm pretty

V/LA though Sunday night

. Wraith, stop with the AtE.

[singersigner]

Someone asked me to sum up my case on Xite in one sentence...

In response to that, I feel it's kind of ridiculous to ask someone to sum it up "in one sentence," but here goes:
I feel that Xite has been abrasive (anti-town) and somewhat hypocritical (when it comes to how people react emotionally-not the strongest part, but adds to it), and I don't buy his interaction with Dana this game, as it seems like he was only protecting his scum-buddy.

[singersigner]

Actually

, the whole WIFOM thing I was speaking of was Xite's defense of Dana. And if you want to look at my questioning, find the post where I was very much questioning why he wasn't roleblocked, etc. I agreed with those questioning Dana's claim, but never with Xite's defense of it.

Where did I say Xite's defense was in deference to Frank? I'd like a quote, please.

[singersigner]

Ok. That wasn't his entire defense of him, though (and I think my understanding was that you thought that it was my entire case of his defense of Dana). That was simply D1. The difference between me and Xite was that Xite was never on the Dana wagon, and I believe it's because he didn't want to bus his partner. D2 and 3 brought in more WIFOM defense. I would've expected a better case for not lynching Dana at that point, and he couldn't present one.

I actually did say it at the time. But my votes don't come until I feel like I'm confident enough in them. Say what you want about "not being confident enough to lynch Dana"...but that's how I feel. I made a mistake with Mysterio, if you remember, but I didn't think I made a mistake with Dana, nor do I think I'm making one now.

[singersigner]

You're missing the point about Xite not giving any attention to Dana's scummy play at all, but after his cop-claim, I didn't want to lynch. I explained exactly why I didn't have a problem potentially mislynching D1, and now I'm using the information we got from it later. Do you see how that sort of thing works?

I actually don't have to convince you anymore, since I'm fairly certain you won't be swayed. If you don't agree, that's fine. We'll see what happens from there.

I did vote Dana (D3)...not sure what you're getting at...

The last part, sorry, that was awkward...I was just talking about when I vote for someone. Frank was a null-tell->scum for me, but I felt it was more beneficial to finish a wagon, than drag the day on with people wondering who/what/when/where/why to vote after 40+ pages. I was wrong about Mysterio, but felt strong enough to put a vote on him. By D3, I felt Dana's claim no longer added up, and felt no qualms about lynching him. I feel the same about Xite. Aside from RVS, I won't just put a vote on someone unless I feel strongly about it (without implying that I was making a point for pressure).

[singersigner]

Oh shit, I didn't actually vote him...



Anyway, no, you can leave your vote on me, that's fine. I just know you're not going to be convinced to vote for Xite, so I'm leaving my argument at that.

[singersigner]

I HAVE said how. About three times now.

Then I probably already addressed and disproved it, again quote anything I haven't if you like and I gladly will.

"Disproved it."

[singersigner]

This is stupid. I'm only doing this to get a lynch for today and get information from the flips. Xite needs to go next.

VOTE: Bunnylover

[singersigner]

VOTE: Wraith

[singersigner]

VOTE: Wraith

Why?

Not asking Poro the same thing? Hmm...

[singersigner]

VOTE: Wraith

Why?

But for sake of not evading your question, I'll say that Wraith has been under scrutiny almost since the beginning. It's time to see who was right.

[singersigner]

VOTE: Wraith

Why?

Not asking Poro the same thing? Hmm...

"Why me and not Poro.....?"

Classic scum reaction

Classic scum reaction IF I didn't actually respond to his question. Or are you not paying attention to something you JUST quoted?

You're also twisting my words. The connotation is not the same, and it's funny that either 1. you think it is, or 2. you're purposefully doing that to make me look bad to anyone who isn't smart enough to realize what you're doing. You choose. I don't mind.

You're gunna have to try harder than that if you want to really accuse me of anything scummy. My case may not have been the strongest...but what are you building

your

case off of? The fact that my

one

case was weak? That's not scummy; that just means that my initial gut was wrong.

[singersigner]

The lack of singer votes is making me rage.

Probably because not everyone agrees with your oh-so-amazing-case.

I think you're just bitter.

[singersigner]

Ok, so I can be convinced on to a singersigner wagon. There's a couple of things that strike me the wrong way, both of which are related to dana. Firstly, during day 1, singer (like a lot of people) gets drawn into the dana vs frank dichotomy thing. But she calls them both scummy and stupid and repeatedly tries to intimate this is some kind of bussing play. At the time she was doing this, it looked like dana was the one going down, so linking dana and frank would be a pretty smart move as scum. Combined with the fact that I don't really see how it looks like bussing at all, that's a serious question mark frowny face thing.

Ok, I thiiink I can see where you're coming from. The only thing that strikes me as odd with this statement is that you very clearly understand a lot of people got sucked into the same thing...but I still fail to understand how my situation was so different.

Secondly, there's her reaction to dana's claim. She's careful to show that she's still suspicious of dana, but that we shouldn't lynch him today. Which is like the perfect balancing act if a scumbuddy claims a power role for a player that's worried about being linked to them. So again, a little bit dodgy there - and it gets worse, because with no real explanation, her position has changed by day 2 to thinking dana is town and claiming he made the smart play (or more exactly, "did what any smart cop would do") in targeting DP. I want to focus on that wording a wee bit - singer clearly believes that a cop would have targeted DP that night. I'm not sure everyone would agree that was the smart play, and the idea had to hav come from somewhere - it's easy to think that that topic might be discussed in the mafia qt, and you'd probably assume that they'd tell dana to claim to target whoever they think a real cop would target. So another strike against her there.

Uh...what? Reads change. I gave him the benefit of the doubt (JUST LIKE XITE) on D2, especially given that we hadn't had a legitimate CC. Also, I don't see what's so wrong with thinking he made the right move in investigating his "CC." It may not be what everyone would do, but please point out the flaw in thinking it was a good move for a town-aligned cop. You're throwing spaghetti with the last bit. Complete WIFOM. "Oh my, Shanba must be Dana and Nhammen's scum buddy. He came up with this theory, that must be true, only he's saying I did it, so boo on him." That doesn't sound right, now does it?

[singersigner]

Too many suspects, not enough evidence to go around. The only person I'm certain about alignment is Shanba, and since he's been a voice of reason throughout the game I'll go with him.

Seriously? We're not lynching Wraith today?

I wasn't planning to, no.

And Shanba, I trust you. Even after Gorrad. You make sense, and I find myself agreeing with you more and more.

Singer, I believe you are at L-1. Do you have anything to say for yourself?

Hmm...not a whole lot really. I've been gone all weekend for Homecoming so I haven't really been able to read/post much. That being said, I think we only have one more scum and an SK, right?

I'm only a VT, but if you guys can figure out what information comes from my lynch and use it wisely tomorrow, I'm not going to waste your time fighting you.

I WILL, however, address questions that may be directed at me if you want any more answers/information. I'm sorry I don't remember who asked or what questions were asked of me that I haven't addressed already, but I'd like to address them before the day is up (if there were any more I missed).

[singersigner]

Hey guys, I'll give my (what seems to be) final thoughts after I get off work tonight. See ya soon!

[singersigner]

Players Alive (9):
2) JDodge @.@ evilpacman18: Town, he's been really lenient with waiting to hammer. I see scum taking this opportunity to say, BS, why wait to hammer, etc...
7) Wraith: Originally I definitely thought he was town. I didn't necessarily lean the other way, I just thought his lynch will tell a lot more than mine.
9) Singersigner: Can't believe anything I have to say about that girl anyway.
10) Shanba: I dunno, could be the SK. Been active enough to be town, but lurky enough to keep himself out of the limelight.
13) ConfidAnon Antihero: Scum, only because his case is relatively weak, but keeps pushing it like it's not.
14) Flinter: Town, in all honesty, because he's not voting me. He seemed level headed about why, and because my wagon didn't take off like others' have, it would've been easy to push my lynch earlier to stay under the radar, or to lynch now because other people have given "reasons"...don't exactly understand his case on Poro, though. I would disagree.
16) Porochaz: Town, seems able to be rational, and make a decent case. Obviously I disagree with his vote, but his analysis of my play seems pretty accurate.
21) Sebguer My Milked Eek: Null. He hasn't contributed ANYTHING.
23) Reck DemonHybrid: Scum, only because he latched on to Antihero's weak reasoning so quickly...I don't really know how to interpret Reck's lack of play. He didn't give us any reactions to work with during some of the most critical times (i.e. Dana/Frank, Wraith, etc.).

My theory, is that either Antihero or DH (I think one of them is scum) killed Xite to prove me wrong after my weak display yesterday. If that hadn't happened, it would've been so easy to keep Xite around to be that abrasive player and turn on him for a mislynch later.

Going with that, I'm going to UNVOTE: , and VOTE: DemonHybrid. If he's not scum, I'm willing to bet Antihero is.

No theories as to the SK. They have a mutually exclusive play to mafia's, and you can't link them to anyone, so...uh, have fun figuring that one out.

This was my first large game, guys. It's been "fun" reading 92 PAGES. Haha.

[singersigner]

Haha. It's funny how accurate my final "bah" post was before the hammer. I wasn't right about Anti being scum, but I was right that he wasn't pro-town. And I stand by my "revenge" theory. Anti was just bitter that I had him and quadz so pegged in another game we were in (it's finished now).

Though, EPM, honestly...I knew you were scum as soon as you hammered without acknowledging my post. If it had been anyone else, you would've been high on my list.

Town got veeery lucky. Sorry I played so shitty for a while.

[singersigner]

Thanks for modding, BBM!! I think the set-up seemed pretty balanced with a role-blocker AND a godfather...though I'm not familiar with much else. I think that in larger games, the set-up can be a liiiittle more pro-town, considering it's so easy to get lost in translation. Mislynches are bound to occur. In all honesty, it's like throwing in a couple anti-town townies with the mafia, and you're golden.

Also, Kise, it would've been nice to breadcrumb your innocents before you died.

Oh, and Anti, I think you could've been pro-town as much as anyone, considering you still needed to beat Mafia. I wouldn't exactly condsider SK anti-town...that's just the win condition.

[singersigner]

Benmage would have been lynched eventually, especially with all the lurking he was doing.

I died before I could rectify that. This game moved fast early on and falling behind happens regardless of alignment. Doesn't mean I can't/wouldn't have been able to 180 that. I don't think I've ever been lynched as scum without the use of PRs catching me. So I wouldn't call it so cut n dry.

Yeah, this game completely took off. I don't know how often people are online, checking their games, but I've never seen an explosion like this before. It really threw me off, since it was so hard to keep up with 5 pages a day for the first week. Oof da!

[singersigner]

^Word^