Newbie 1022 - Game Over

[Kingcheese]

Hi guys.

By reading my username u've no doubt infered that I am Kingcheese.

First time player of any Mafia game, although for the past few weeks I've read a few games (Newbie and Normal ones) on the site.

Just want to say I look forward to a great game with all of ya .

[Kingcheese]

@Leech

Well from the games that I've read I believe policy lynches should be carried out depending on the situation. If the person is acting anti town or idiotic I would consider a lynch even if I am certain they are town. But it depends upon my view of the incident.

[Kingcheese]

Shotty is a liability for whatever side he plays on. He prides himself on being a VI, he's self-hammered as town in LyLo situation, he's outed his partner as scum, and he's probably in about 15 games at the moment as well. He is easily the worst player I've ever seen on this site. That's not because he's just "bad" it's because he doesn't care enough to try, and plays against his win condition in every single game.

While I do agree that past performances are a good way to determine someones play style it does no one any good to push for a lynch without hearing a post from the person in question.

[Kingcheese]

As for the RVS:

VOTE: Chief

Whether your a football fan or not, I dislike the Kansas City Chiefs with a mild passion. Enjoy your random vote

[Kingcheese]

I can't control your voting but I implore you to take Shotty off of L-1.

I am NOT defending him, we haven't even heard from shotty, and likely the next 1st gamer to check in will hammer without knowing any better.

Having a lynch on the 2nd page of the game will likely not be profitable to the town. I understand your policy lynching and I don't disagree, but not this early. We have roughly a three week deadline if I'm correct. Use it please.

We should be using this time to analyze each other and have a better idea of who and who not is scum. Not policy lynching on page 2.

[Kingcheese]

I'd like to ask some questions directed at a couple people based on things I have observed.

@Vas

How do you feel about how the Shotty wagon has developed? If Shotty is replaced due to his inactivity, how would you feel towards the replacement?

@TheLonging

To me, hopping on the Shotty bandwagon to make it L-1 seems scummy to me. I mean Shotty is an ideal target to bandwagon on, everyone seems to have a gripe with him. Maybe someone will lynch him this early. It is a newbie game and most of us are still learning the ropes after all. My question is do you feel that post could have any impact towards you later in the game? Or do you consider yourself to be a straight shooter, unafraid to hammer or vote on a controversial issue if the need arrives?

@Shotty

If you do ever appear, why is it taking so long to post? RL concerns? And lastly do you think (If you do appear and play through the game) such a long time away will have put you in a hole early?

That's all at the moment.

[Kingcheese]

@Vox

Re: The L-1 vs. L-2 thing. I'm not really following. New jargon is fun to choke down in a hurry.

If you are asking what these terms mean:

L1= 1 vote to lynch

L2= 2 votes to lynch

In most games voting patterns can be used to build cases on suspected scum. L-1 and L-2 votes for this reason are very important, and it is good to analyze why someone voted where they voted and why.

[Kingcheese]

To me, hopping on the Shotty bandwagon to make it L-1 seems scummy to me. I mean Shotty is an ideal target to bandwagon on, everyone seems to have a gripe with him. Maybe someone will lynch him this early.

As scum, would you lynch a player as disruptive as Shotty? Would you endorse a lynch, or even night kill, a player that has self-hammered as town in LyLo? Up until I'm making this point, I really don't see scum wanting to get rid of the guy for the reasons I do. When he's town, he helps scum. When he's scum, well...he helps town. (By getting lynched.) Scum tend to keep these VI's around because it increases their odds of winning. The longer players like him are around the longer town constantly has to deal with the WIFOM of it. Also lynching him later in the game, when he's town, makes it impossible for us to hit scum in that phase. Except for the wifom this post will create on the subject, I don't see scum hammering Shotty this early.

While your point is valid I believe it is a two way street. Scum could easily piggyback onto the bandwagon and get Shotty lynched. We then come into day two on page 3 or 4 and have a terrible place to start the day from. Assuming Shotty flipped town we have one less day to work with. In my situation it matters not if the bandwagon is against a VI, just a fast day that helps the town little.

[Kingcheese]

While your point is valid I believe it is a two way street. Scum could easily piggyback onto the bandwagon and get Shotty lynched. We then come into day two on page 3 or 4 and have a terrible place to start the day from. Assuming Shotty flipped town we have one less day to work with. In my situation it matters not if the bandwagon is against a VI, just a fast day that helps the town little.

Sounds like Kingcheese

knows

Shotty is town here. I think a Shotty flip would actually give us a fair insight into other players' interactions.

I have no idea of Shotty's nor anyone else's allignment. Shotty has posted NOTHING with any content other than saying he didn't know the game started. The entire situation above is based upon if he does flip town. However if he does in fact flip Mafia that would be a good break for us as town. Although, until we get a few pages further, I believe any lynching in the next few pages shouldn't be done this early.

This is in no way to say I do not support a Shotty lynch, I am just not comfortable in doing it know on page 3.

@

Shotty

Now that you are finally playing, care to answer my question back on Page 2?

And let me add another: What is your reaction towards your own bandwagon? Are you suprised an attempt to policy lynch you has been made, or is this sort of voting pattern happen against you often in the games you have played?

[Kingcheese]

If the player is scum: townie is the easiest scum claim since it doesn't involve the dangers of claiming a PR
If the player is town: claimed townies narrow down scum's night kill choices to maximise the chance that they hit PRs (should they exist)

???? This is a BAD thing!!!

FoS: AurousVox

Would you care to explain you reasoning? Or would you like to add more exclamation points and question marks?

I see the same three people or so posting. Would ppl such as Eggyluv and Cheif care to share their thoughts?

[Kingcheese]

No I do not think that this has put me in the whole, and scum always try to push a PL on me day 1.

Why do you think they try to policy lynch you on day one? Do you believe it is your playing style? If not, would you like to explain your hypothesis? If yes to the first question, Don't you believe you should change an aspect of your game play in order to prevent this? Or have you tried to already?

[Kingcheese]

"If the player is town:

claimed townies narrow down scum's night kill choices to maximise the chance that they hit PRs

(should they exist)"

"So regardless of your alignment,

"lynch all claimed townies" is actually a better move

than

eventually wagoning on someone else, which has the additional risk of outing a PR if we have them.

"

"If the player is town:

claimed townies narrow down scum's night kill choices to maximise the chance that they hit PRs

(should they exist)"

I still don't understand your point. I'm afraid your post has just confused me further.

[Kingcheese]

@shotty

And the allegations against you?

Eh that aren't really to many right now, and they are simply oh he's always scummy!
I have not posted enough for anything to be held against me, so I will not respond to nothing

I'd have to say nearly everyone has had some problem with you regardless of how little you posted. Also if I myself am not mistaken I believe you are not percieving why others have considered a policy lynch of you. Not that your scummy but that you apprently have a VI play style. Obviously both are related to some extent but the latter term explains the reasons more.

Also would you care to answer my followup questions further on up the page?

[Kingcheese]

I am seriously considering the policy lynch earlier proposed on Shotty. Anything Shotty has had to contribute is so hard to find that I find myself failing to identify anything in his posts. Even when asked questions of great importance to help the town win, he simply ignores them or offers simplistic one liners that fail to help anyone including himself. Unless Shotty at least puts an attempt to fight for his cyber survival in this game I will eventually hammer if no one else is willing to do so. So please attempt to defend yourself with something other than a grammatically incorrect sentence and make a valid effort.

That being said I also agree with Vox and his reasoning mentioned a few pages higher about a Shotty lynch.

I understand Chief has been prodded.

What about Eggyluv? Been awhile since I've seen a post from him.

[Kingcheese]

ok, Everyone I want you to answer me some questions
1. Who is scum
2. Why
3. How
4. Policy lynch me or not?

I suggest you answer some of the questions others such as I have asked before you start your own questionnaire.

[Kingcheese]

While Shotty is my top choice for a lynch I though I might add that Eggyluv is quickly climbing up on my list of scum. Lurkers get up there quick. According to his page he logs in constantly but doesn't seem to want to post. And when he does post its a one liner such as:

This isn't conducive to scumhunting at all.

Just some food for thought.

[Kingcheese]

In other news: If Avish is indeed being genuine(thus Town), TheLonging may need some form of rope right after we're done lynching shotty(regardless of his flip.) Kingcheese too, maybe. Other newbies need to generate content.

If I'm reading this correctly then you obviously believe I could be scum. I understand you said you would elaborate but when you do could you please answer this question for me: What about me or what I have said makes you think I am scum?

Personally I don't have many reads but here's what I have formulated thus far:
1. Shotty: I believe I made my point clear about shotty further back. I do support a policy lynch however I believe now is to soon. As stated I believe I need more posts to analyze . Otherwise his VI behavior merits a lynch.

2. Vas: Neutral thus far. From games I've read IC's are the most difficult to read, not really ecause they are experienced but rather because I find their posts hard to read because they come off as very neutral in an attempt to be helpful to the others. Just my thought.

3. Leech: Slight town read, suggested the idea for a shotty policy lynch so that could be viewed as pro town or it could be viewed as an easy way to lynch someone day 1 and come off as pro town. It could be something, or it could be everything. Personally I'm thinking nothing.

4. Eggyluv: I dislike lurkers, Slightly scum. Not much to analyze regarding him.

5. Chief: Same as Eggy, although I'm anxiously awaiting his follow up posted he promised.

6. Avish: Was previously a scum read. Now I'm thinking slight town after that lengthy post. I thought she was scum previously because of the points stressed by Vox and Leech. After the clarification I'm rethinking my previous thoughts.

7. Vox: Slight town read. Same thoughts as with Leech. I think he is attempting to a great extent to hunt scum, so for now town.

8. TheLonging: After that L-1 vote out of the gate from theLonging I got suspicious very fast. From the games I've read on this site I find that voting is a great way to find scum. I asked him about his vote (I believe it is on page 2 or 3) and he replied he is a straight shooter which is very believable many ppl on here are, unafraid to voice their views. But like my thoughts on Leech, it's all food for thought.

That's my contribution for the night

[Kingcheese]

In other news: If Avish is indeed being genuine(thus Town), TheLonging may need some form of rope right after we're done lynching shotty(regardless of his flip.) Kingcheese too, maybe. Other newbies need to generate content.

If I'm reading this correctly then you obviously believe I could be scum. I understand you said you would elaborate but when you do could you please answer this question for me: What about me or what I have said makes you think I am scum?

Personally I don't have many reads but here's what I have formulated thus far:
1. Shotty: I believe I made my point clear about shotty further back. I

do

support a policy lynch however I believe now is to soon. As stated I believe I need more posts to analyze . Otherwise his VI behavior merits a lynch.

Please tell me how that makes sense?
You just said I don't want a policy lynch but I want him lynched for no reason other than meta

I believe you need your eyes checked m8 in no where do I say I do not support a policy lynch. I say now may be a bit to early. But I do support it.

[Kingcheese]

I think I need to post here. But ehh, I really don't have much to say. I'm unconvinced by Kingcheese's/Avish Player analysis. These three are good places to start D2. I'll be reserving my opinions on Avish, for now. AV has good stuff to say. Eggy hasn't answered my questions yet, Chief is a non-entity and may need to be prodded/replaced. Leech is V/LA.

I also think that once Leech returns, that'll be a good time to hammer since the game is stalling and everyone is hellbent on this lynch.

How are you unconvinced by my play analysis? Do you not agree with my player analysis on certain players? Or are you unhappy with how I analyzed your play thus far? And lastly why wait to stress your thoughts in D2 when you can do it perfectly well in D1? If your complaining about stagnated play, wouldn't stressing your views help to solve the stalling?

[Kingcheese]

How are you unconvinced by my play analysis? Do you not agree with my player analysis on certain players? Or are you unhappy with how I analyzed your play thus far? And lastly why wait to stress your thoughts in D2 when you can do it perfectly well in D1? If your complaining about stagnated play, wouldn't stressing your views help to solve the stalling?

It was pre-emptive. I didn't ask you for a PbPA(player by player analysis), but you did anyway without any real pressure coming from me. Similarly, Avish' defense is pre-emptive too.

It is a good thing to sit on your reads sometimes, otherwise scum can plan ahead of it. That said, I'll keep my reads to myself until I think it's a good time to reveal it.

I'm complaining about stagnated play because it's not really a norm for town to near-unanimously decide on a policy lynch this early. This is really sapping up discussion, and I'm not even sure how I'll properly get reads off people since the threat of the lynch isn't there.

In other news: If Avish is indeed being genuine(thus Town), TheLonging may need some form of rope right after we're done lynching shotty(regardless of his flip.) Kingcheese too, maybe. Other newbies need to generate content.

Will elaborate soon after I get my reads straight.

After reading this I assumed you believed I was scum because I wasn't, in your eyes, doing or saying anything productive. I understand your ideology of sitting on reads but personally I would prefer to get my views out there. It makes me feel as if I am being productive. Also I believe if you are NK'ed the remaining townies can go back, look at your views and say: "Well, why was this guy killed. Was it something he pointed out...." Sitting on your reads I believe is a waste. You need to talk it out, and try to formulate your ideas by discussing with others and their views. If I want to declare my view then I am going to.

[Kingcheese]

1. I think it is a Town decided wagon, considering that so many people seem to be on it. I don't agree with Shotty's lynch because he hasn't said anything yet, but I don't blame them for starting the bandwagon.

But it's the lack of stuff he has said this round is why I'm leaning towards lynching shotty and I'm sure others agree with me. His other games obviously do factor into this policy lynch wagon they have going but shotty has had plenty of time to formulate a defence and he refuses to do so and accepts the fact that he will probably be lynched.

About time for a replacement for Chief?

[Kingcheese]

I apologize for my sudden flight from reality. Let me make a quick read through of recent developments and I'll see if I can make a post about it.

Oh and a belated welcome to LordChronos

[Kingcheese]

I'm beginning to get suspicious of Vas for his sudden vote on Thelonging. As Thelonging said he hasen't mentioned him much for most of the entire game. However I also have a "gut" feeling against him as Vas does. The only post he really, in my eyes, contributed in was the one explaining his Shotty vote way back I believe. Mostly his posts just seem a way to avoid a prod. Such as: e-e

I know I switched to both sides of the argument there but I can see both sides. It wouldn't make sense if Vas was trying to bandwagon because Thelonging hasn't received any pressure. So it is most probably his honest gut feel. Which I sort of felt as well when he put Shotty at L-1.

I have a theory about EggyLuv but I don't think I'll voice my opinion yet. I believe that if I do at this stage in the game it will be very Anti-Town so I think I'll wait a while and see how the game takes form.

I also think that you guys may be reading to much into Avish. But I'm not really sure, all I can really see you are debating are a few word choices. (which I guess is sometimes great for scum hunting but still) Maybe more will come to light for me to change my view. At the moment I'm unconvinced.

[Kingcheese]

I'm beginning to get suspicious of Vas for his sudden vote on Thelonging. As Thelonging said he hasen't mentioned him much for most of the entire game. However I also have a "gut" feeling against him as Vas does. The only post he really, in my eyes, contributed in was the one explaining his Shotty vote way back I believe. Mostly his posts just seem a way to avoid a prod. Such as: e-e

e_e is my signature man, I use it when people say something so bad that it's facepalm worthy, or when people don't read. I didn't use it to avoid a prod. Also you aren't reading me enough then if you say that ONE post is the only one I contributed. THE ONLY ONE? Really? That's hyperbole to the extreme, if you wanted to slightly exaggerate and be a dick you could have said 2 posts <_<

I know I switched to both sides of the argument there but I can see both sides. It wouldn't make sense if Vas was trying to bandwagon because Thelonging hasn't received any pressure. So it is most probably his honest gut feel. Which I sort of felt as well when he put Shotty at L-1.

I've been voicing my suspicion of shotty for a while now, even from the time where it ended being a policy lynch and ended up as him being scummy. I haven't received pressure because people either think I am town or think I am scummy but want to sit back and wait for people to point it out, which IS scummy for people to do in my eyes)

I have a theory about EggyLuv but I don't think I'll voice my opinion yet. I believe that if I do at this stage in the game it will be very Anti-Town so I think I'll wait a while and see how the game takes form.

Unless it's groundbreaking, controversial, or not relevant to the game now, I don't see why you should hold back.

I also think that you guys may be reading to much into Avish. But I'm not really sure, all I can really see you are debating are a few word choices. (which I guess is sometimes great for scum hunting but still) Maybe more will come to light for me to change my view. At the moment I'm unconvinced.

On the contrary, I'm finding Avish very town.

I do believe I should of said contributed to scum hunting. Let's go back and look shall we:

Post # 106
Avish is now the most pro-town player in this entire game. I mean, after I read that post, I reread the thread. In fact, everything he's saying actually makes very good sense. This also leads me to believe that VV and shotty could be scum. However, shotty should be lynched first. At best he's scum, at worst he's a detriment to town, and he already CLAIMED townie. I'd rather not have someone who will shorthand us in the game, even if he is being better in this game than most games. It's not good at all.

Post # 171
LordChronos' vote seems like an opportunity to try and push a wagon on Avish, with flimsy reasoning. It really is opportunistic, and if I wasn't voting for shotty I'd vote for LordChronos.

Post # 25
Hello people, I am your other SE, and I will help you however possible.

my vote is also not random. I do have experience playing with this guy, and I must say, he won't change. He doesn't want to be replaced out so that leaves a policy lynch, kill, or force-replace. I believe that by helping to policy wagon him, we can get some info, and hopefully lynch shotty.

Yes LC your correct I was referring to his sudden comment not his vote. Typo.

And to Vox I'm not quite sure. To me it makes sense to vote for Shotty, but I feel my vote wouldn't mean much atm. I disagree with the Avish wagon at this point so I won't be voting there. So for the moment I won't vote but that choice will change shortly.

[Kingcheese]

UNVOTE: Chief/LordChronos

VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

I still support a lynch of shotty. And I believe he is the best choice currently. He may or may not be scum, but we will have to get rid of him eventually. He doesn't care. And I like our chances 2/5 with people who want to play then possibly 1/6 with Shotty. And thats my opinion.

@Vas

I believed I clarified Post #180, I believe it was, in a later post. I mis-typed and said you voted thelonging when I meant to question your argument on thelonging. As I typed before that was my mistake.

And then with post #194. If you don't understand what I was getting at then you obviously didn't read very carefully. I am attepmting to:

1. Answer Thelongings response to #180
2. Answer LC's comment about my false statement that you had voted thelonging when you had not.
3. Answer Vox's question asking who I may later on vote for.

It may not have been well organized looking back on it. But I believe if you looked back on it a second time you may of seen that.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding my comment about Eggy, I understand know that I should not have typed that, but instead typed something such as: Is it considered Pro or Anti Town to discuss PR Roles in order to justify ones play thus far?

Vas answered this question in a later post picking up on what I was hinting. I should have elaborated more in that first post #180. Clearly my mistake.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also have taken into consideration Leech's strong argument against Avish and I believe it is compelling and logical. But I do not believe Avish is or should be lynched Night 1. As stated above I support a Shotty lynch for this night.

[Kingcheese]

Regarding my comment about Eggy, I understand know that I should not have typed that, but instead typed something such as: Is it considered Pro or Anti Town to discuss PR Roles in order to justify ones play thus far?

Vas answered this question in a later post picking up on what I was hinting. I should have elaborated more in that first post #180. Clearly my mistake.

HOOOOL-DUP

Didn't a number of us

already

explicitly warn Avish away from discussing PRs before you made this post? Are you claiming ignorance to those posts?

Good you possibly find it and quote it for me? In all honesty I guess I must have missed it. I'll search for it a little later if you didn't quote it. Have school now.

[Kingcheese]

Bah grammar and spelling fail.

[Kingcheese]

*sigh* This is exactly why I think Shotty is the priority lynch today. I don't feel confident lynching Avish at all at the moment despite Leech's pushing. Whenever someone trys to focus attention away from him he somehow figures out to make himself seem more lynchable then before. We are going to have to lynch him eventually. Nows our best oppertunity.

[Kingcheese]

Here is my reasoning. I'm not convinced Avish is scum. But I'm also not sure if she's town. Like others have mentioned, her posts seem genuine and I can totally buy them, but when Leech posts something about Avish, I feel as if my sense of reasoning is saying: Look KC, she's Scum that's a fairly strong argument. I'm torn with listening to my gut (Avish is town) and listening to my brain (Avish is Scum)

I believe if we mislynch today that puts us at 2/5. Then if we want to lynch shotty then and we go to 2/3 assuming he is town. I'd rather have another day to figure out who is scum without shotty and see where that takes us. If Avish is scum it obviously works better. But I'm not convinced Avish is scum, and we can't afford to mislynch one day and lynch shotty the next day.

[Kingcheese]

It's logical when you make a case against her but when I personally read her posts I don't see the things you point out. It doesn't really seem scummy until you point something out and I look back at it and say: You know I can see that angle. Hope that clears that up? I'm not sure what exactly your accusation is. That you believe I am in the wrong for believing your argument is logical but not voting for your lynch candidate.

I'd rather lynch Shotty for one reason I seem to be repeating continuously. I do not believe that Avish is scum. And since no one else has pushed any other wagon, except for maybe Vox with Vas, Shotty is the best candidate. Is he town? More than likely. Is their anyone I believe is scum and willing to lynch? No.

[Kingcheese]

Is he town? More than likely. Is their anyone I believe is scum and willing to lynch? No.

OMG! Great reasons!
So what you are saying is that you don't want to use the rest of the day to scum hunt, instead you would rather lynch someone you

think

know is town? WOW HUGE SLIP RIGHT HERE!!!

unvote
vote king cheese

No, what I am saying is that I do not believe any of the candidates that are getting votes are scum. And that would be Avish. Like I've said before I would rather spend another day scum hunting then lynch someone I do not believe is scum.

If it comes to a point where we have not made a choice by the end of Monday I will reluctantly hammer Avish. I believe Vox is making a post about Avish tomorrow. If he doesn't vote I will because I believe the alternative is a no lynch that Vas pointed out? If someone could clear this up it would be great.

[Kingcheese]

What I do agree with are swome of the points that Leech have said that I have been refering to such as the OMGUS vote and the point about the games she didn't request links to. My problem is I find her posts genuine to some extent and I feel shes gonna flip town. I'm writing off most of Shotty's behavior as VI when it could be scum. I think Shotty will flip town assuming we lynch him because I feel he is acting VI however we will never know unless we lynch him. I hope that made sense lol.

For a direct answer to your question Vas about me "defending" Avish I wouldn't even consider it defending. I'm trying to show why I would rather lynch Shotty than Avish. My Shotty lynch I have been pushing seems to have receeded and I will most likely hammer Avish if we get to the remaining hours of deadline. Just waiting for Vox's post assuming it is forthcoming.

[Kingcheese]

Welcome DP!

I'm going to conduct a read through tomorrow morning most likely.

I do have a question for Shotty:

What was your reason for saying you want to lynch me at the end of Day 1? Was it the post that I explained you had misinterpreted? A little clarity would help.

I also do not believe I will be voting Shotty for PL reasons atm. The time for that has passed obviously.

[Kingcheese]

ok king i will answer your question in a second but first I want you to tell me how the hell a Policy Lynch helps us now? do you want to go spinning into lylo?

For the third time you have misinterpreted my post. I said the exact opposite of that in my last post. And an answer to my question would be appreciated.

[Kingcheese]

Hey guys, I actually skim read the last few pages of this game before replacing in, one thing stood out to me, that Kingcheese is OBV-SCUM, that's partly why I replaced in just to nail this scum-bag (well i had to hope I wasn't gonna be her scum buddy, but alas, I am not). I haven't done a full -reread so I will refrain from voting at the moment but I'm 99% sure my vote will be going on this player and they will be scum.

Would you care to support your view with maybe some reasoning? And did you refer to KINGcheese as a female... or did I misread that?

I'm typing this on my smartphone so it will be brief but, I'm begining to think I see something.

Eggy: he didn't talk much during the game and was actively lurking and was replaced. Possible scum strategy.

Shotty: Recently began to attempt to build a case against me after he misread my post. (Or so I believe because he has yet to answer my question). I'm okay with that and I didn't find it scummy.

However...

DavidParker: DP comes out of the gate and makes a general statement saying he is 99% sure I am scum.

I'm purely speculating atm but I'm inclined to believe that DP and shotty may be scum partners. Both have come right out of the gate to follow up on shotty's previous vote. Until I see any sort of reasoning behind their ideas this is my mindset currently.

[Kingcheese]

Still haven't done a reread recently, but based on recent posts the scum team is kingcheese+Leech... The wifomy "ic not dying means hes scum" card settles it.

I would suggest you actually do make a re read before making such rash assumptions. You have based your entire "argument," if you could call it that, is based on the last post by Leech and and Id guess 1 and a half pages.

I look forward to your "informed" post DP. I also see shotty as posted something else without answering my question. I continue to wait.

[Kingcheese]

vote king cheese

I have still yet to see any reasoning. I am still waiting.

And the same goes for you as well DP. Have you finished your readthrough? Do you have an informed assumption on who is scum?

[Kingcheese]

I'm Here.

Just waiting for DP's and Shotty's reasoning for their suspicion towards me. If they have any.

[Kingcheese]

*sigh* I think this is the 5th post I've asked for an explanation as to why DP and Shotty think I'm scummy. And still no response.

I will admit that my Avish Reasons were pretty silly. But I really couldn't form an argument for Avish. As I believe Aux put it she seemed like a paranoid townie more than scum. And she didn't really help herself much. But I still stand by what I said. When she posted it seemed genuine and it seemed she couldn't combat all the pressure that was being added to her and really buried herself. Hope that made sense and clarifies things a little.

Lets see what else... Oh yes my comment about DP and Shotty.

I posted that manly because they both suddenly (with still no clarified reasons *hint Id like post analysis or something from them) began to vote me. I also posted it as a discussion topic but I guess no one else viewed it as sort of odd. At the time yesterday I was voting Shotty for PL reasons because I didn't believe Avish was scum. I still believe he is town but I'm intrigued as to why he is voting without giving any reasons except posts that I've clearly explained he's misread.

Heres a short Player Analysis I believe I can formulate for you.

Leech

: I believe he is town. His points against Avish were great. I believe I said D1 they were convincing. I am still uneasy about the way he has so far directed the flow of the game. He started the starting shotty wagon and then the Avish one. Perhaps its a good thing perhaps not, I really don't have enough experience to tell. Perhaps you could also enlighten us on why you voted DP? Or is everyone not giving reasons for their votes today?

Vox

: Pretty neutral I'd say. He makes some good posts and seems to take the side of the leading bandwagon when pressed (not really bad, just something I've noticed) with the exception of his Vas vote later on in day 1 which Im still kinda scratching my head over.

TheLonging

:I'm not to sure. I like some of the peoples cases against him and I disagree with his Leech vote. From my limited understanding of WIFOM Leech does seem to be dabbling in it. However my town read on Leech still does stand at the moment.

Shotty

: I think hes town atm but I'm questioning why he's insisting on voting me without any evidence that's not misinterpreted or misread.

DP

: Very interesting, combined with Eggy's play it will be interesting to see how the game transpires. I'm questionable about his vote towards me. Which is why I suggested Shotty and DP may be scum partners however I can't make an informed choice on their morality unless they provide actual reasons for voting me.

Vas

: Still Mister neutral. Like Vox, just seems to be following the leading wagon but yet vox and Vas are inclined to go after each other. As I said above I am still unsure what to make of these arguments atm.

And I believe that covers everyone. Hopefully I've addressed everyone's posts towards me.

And to DP I would suggest you provide your reasons for voting me so I can make an informed choice on whom (hope I used that in the right context) to vote for.

[Kingcheese]

Me summing up why I think KingCheese is scummy:

Recent contradictions/backpeddling: Calls shotty town then says he thinks me+shotty are the scum team.

This statement: "I would consider a lynch even if I am certain they are town" (regarding policy lynches).. This is just bad bad bad. The only one who is certain of town players if scum or the cop. And cop should NEVER vote for someone they have a town read on (unless trying to pull some trick/bluff but that's a bit silly and a long stretch)

He then takes part of RVS when the game had already started and discussion regarding a shotty lynch was going.

Asks some useless and forced questions which just seem like him pretending to contribute.

As stated by Aurora, it sounds like KingCheeese KNOWS shotty is town at various points in the game early on.

Then asks 4-5 questions (useless questions) of shotty when he joins the game. They didn't help discussion at all, once again him PRETENDING to contribute... oh and later kingcheese considers the policy lynch again.. Ugh why... oh, because he ignored kingcheese's useless questiosn (questions kingcheese describes as "of great importance to help the town win" ROFL)

So he votes shotty despite beleiving him to be town (and hitning to KNOWING shotty is town, ie he is scuM)


TL;DR: Kingcheese is obv scum.

1) I thought I clarified this part in my last post. I guess not. 1st day Shotty sort of lurked around didn't do much which is why I believed he was a candidate for a Policy Lynch. I thought he was town solely for his lack of interest in the game. He seemed to care less and less in the game as it progressed. Pardon me for any WIFOM or whatever term you feel fits for this but I believe it explains my reasons. I would think being scum would bring some sort of enjoyment and willingness to contribute. I didn't see any for shotty. He seemed like he could care less if he was Pl'ed that day. That's why I supported a policy lynch. And that's why I believe he is town atm. I do remind you that tells can change. Both shotty and DP voted and left for good deals of time without showing their reasons. I saw a similarity and I dabbled in the thought that they were partners.

2) That is a statement of my opinion and I stick by it. If someone if atrociously playing and I believe they are town I will consider a policy lynch. I'm sure most of you would do the same no? A policy lynch is to get rid of a member of your group that is playing anti town. Shotty was doing so.

3) Im not sure what the issue was with this. At this point I was A) forming a competing wagon has I had not had a chance to take part in the RVS. B) I wasn't on board with the shotty lynch yet since he hadn't even posted yet!

4) I felt the questions were very informative. I asked thelonging some questions about his L1 vote and received a response regarding his play style. If he suddenly deviates from that trend he explained it raises some questions about what side he is on. The questions directed towards shotty were of mediocre importance but I will note that him not answering my questions made my rating towards shotty drop. I will also note that using "of great importence" garners peoples attention.

Do you have any other suspects DP or were you only paying attention to me?

@Vas
You may have started the case but Leech finished it.

I also disagree with 302. I don't think it matters. In fact I would become more suspicious if an inactive spot suddenly became very active with a replacement.

[Kingcheese]

Meh the defending him seems too blatant. I feel as if Leech would be more reluctant to defend King and attack me. While the chainsaw defence is present (assuming kingcheese is scum), it just seems to obvious. I'm not sure what leech's mafia experience is so depending on that I could see that being a plausible team.

I assume that you don't have any other suspects since you've posted twice since my post DP.

What do you think of my post? Does it address any of your concerns or do you think it's BS?

[Kingcheese]

Sorry, I meant to add excluding Leech. Unless you have more to add regarding him.

[Kingcheese]

If King is not scum (yeah right) leech is definitely scum. If king is scum, leech is still probably his scum buddy.

I'll remember this post at the end of the game DP

What do I think of Leech. Well I posted that I believed he was town. However if you feel you need a more detailed response, so be it.

I think he defended his DP vote well. I do agree that his first post about me was pretty outlandish. Personally I know I made some posts I wish I could of rephrased. Mainly the ones about Avish. However the way DP brought his case seemed pretty off. I disliked how he thought he didn't need to explain his vote (as shotty hasn't as of yet) and how he already has his mind made up fairly early in the day.

I'm not sure why Vas is so compelled to defend DP just out of the blue making a statement about how he like how he went after an "unpopular" player. Going to make a reread to see how he acted towards Eggy during day 1.

[Kingcheese]

God I don't check for 18 hours and theirs a wall of post and im at L1.

To Vox:

I thought I answered your question pretty clearly way back. Lets see if I can find it:

Post #322

Lets see what else... Oh yes my comment about DP and Shotty.

I posted that manly because they both suddenly (with still no clarified reasons *hint Id like post analysis or something from them) began to vote me. I also posted it as a discussion topic but I guess no one else viewed it as sort of odd. At the time yesterday I was voting Shotty for PL reasons because I didn't believe Avish was scum. I still believe he is town but I'm intrigued as to why he is voting without giving any reasons except posts that I've clearly explained he's misread.

They both voted me at the start of the game not willing to discuss their reasons. So I entertained the thought at a discussion point. Would I have pursued it? Probably not since no one bothered to think about it or discus it unless it incriminated me. Is this not a suffice answer or did you miss it before Vox?

The case against me is surprising against me.

We have shotty who says i'm obv scum but is not giving any support. Any support he gave D1 he admitted he misread.

DP's case revolves mostly about the PL of Shotty if I'm not correct. And the fact I took part in RVS a little later then everyone else while the shotty wagon was moving. Really?

And then Vox who voted me because I "avoided" the question I had originally answered 4 posts above him. I also way back when admitted to my newbie mistake about the "role fishing" I should of asked a better question than I did about it than I did regarding Eggy. That was my fault. However that's about it for the "super awesome" case against me.

Lastly since TL has said he will hammer if need be I claim:

Vanilla Townie

[Kingcheese]

King, I saw it, but your answer IS insufficient.

You haven't explained how they can be SCUMbuddies when one of them is a TOWN read, or what would possess you to think that.

I played with the possibility that they were scum buddies because DP took up Shotty's vote. To me it seemed odd considering that their were other cases that had bloomed up that seemed much more plausible to build a case against. But DP took up a vote on me, joining shotty with no reason whatsoever and then believing he didn't need to support it to begin with. Am I the only one that found that odd?

If you argue I should of kept that to myself considering I voiced my opinion that shotty was town then this is my answer:

I felt that other people would find it odd and discuss why they had voted as such without any reasoning. Shotty has still to show any reasoning. obv scum is not reasoning.

I can't really explain it any more clearly, THAT was my exact thought process I'm not sure what else you want.

[Kingcheese]

Promising content soon. My other games are taking up my time, and I barely get sleep as it is. @.@

When you do return I would like to ask what your thoughts are regarding the wagon towards me. Do you believe in any of the support shown?

[Kingcheese]

So now that king has claimed the correct procedure is to hammer him.

If I can borrow TL's term I would like to use it e-e (facepalm)

Why are you in such a hurry to find a lynch? Do you have any new reasoning that isn't foolish?

At least one of the members on my wagon are scum I believe. Shotty is just a VI or is lurking to the extreme since he hasn't justified ANYTHING. Am I the only one that sees this?? Vox and DP especially are pushing on my lynch with nothing. I find this whole process absolutely baffling that DP will be more than likely able to lynch me with these antics.

I implore the remaining townies to look at my wagon and at least attempt to see what I am talking about.

VOTE: DavidParker

This is utterly ridiculous he is rushing this day thinking that he has an easy lynch. At the end of the day assuming I'm lynched his first post will be "lol sorry guys my bad, let me just hop on whatever wagon has the most votes"

[Kingcheese]

Let's see if I can be clearer here:

I played with the possibility that they were scum buddies because DP took up Shotty's vote.

No, you didn't. You said Shotty was town. That is not playing with the possibility of them being scum buddies. That is saying that you think they are scum buddies despite ONE of them being town. The two sentiments CANNOT logically correlate with one another.

To me it seemed odd considering that their were other cases that had bloomed up that seemed much more plausible to build a case against.

So he's not going onto the easiest of votes? Hold on to this thought.

But DP took up a vote on me, joining shotty with no reason whatsoever and then believing he didn't need to support it to begin with. Am I the only one that found that odd?

No; I asked DP for his reasons, Leech voted DP for not providing reasons. You're sounding awfully blinkered here. And DP did then provide support for his case. Do you think he NEVER had the case and only made it up afterwards? Or do you think he is lazy and/or didn't reveal his case for some other reason? If so, why?

If you argue I should of kept that to myself considering I voiced my opinion that shotty was town then this is my answer:

I felt that other people would find it odd and discuss why they had voted as such without any reasoning. Shotty has still to show any reasoning. obv scum is not reasoning.

I don't think you should have kept it to yourself. I have no problem with you supposing that they are scum buddies. My problem is with you saying that they are scum buddies AND saying one of them is town. You're still calling Shotty town.

Which reminds me that you've sounded pretty sure about him being town for a while now. For a claimed VT, I'd like to know where this certainty has come from?

Oh yeah, and

This is utterly ridiculous he is rushing this day thinking that he has an easy lynch. At the end of the day assuming I'm lynched his first post will be "lol sorry guys my bad, let me just hop on whatever wagon has the most votes"

Another contradiction here. I thought you said that there were better (i.e. easier?) cases for DP to push when he came into the game? But now he's jumping on the easiest bandwagon? What is it - is he picking silly, hard cases; or easy (and therefore less silly?) cases?

Lets see if I can be clearer here:

A)Yes I said he was prob town. And yes I said in a post that Shotty and DP could be a plausible pair. My point in doing this was to bring up a discussion topic. Obviously it failed terribly since people began to incriminate me and no one else found their play style up to that point odd. I'm not sure why your failing to see that. I said I wasn't going to pursue it a few posts back. I obviously know you can't be scum and town but I was trying to see if others who didn't think shotty is probably town would see the pair to be viable.

B) I think he didn't have a case and made one after you pressed him on it for two reasons.

1) He first asked if it was really needed for him to post his reasons. At this point in time I was about to cry.
2) On his one post that described his case against me almost all of his reasons were stuff that were discussed early in the game. And they all only revolve around Shotty. If anything I would build a case against me about my Avish case just because of how poor it was. But instead he mentions two things very briefly from later in the game and his most in depth analysis comes from the Shotty PL which seemed kind of odd. Especially considering their were multiple people that considered the Shotty Lynch as well. I also lol'ed at the RVS bit.

C) I explained it briefly a little while back. Shotty isn't taking any interest into this game and his play style is considerably that of a VI. For example "king is obv scum." You can argue that scum could easily act in the same manner but the excitement isn't there. You are much more likely to want to participate if you are scum. In fact the first game I read on this site shotty was fairly active. He was lynched in Lylo and turned up to be scum. Hardly a sterling example but you comprehend my point I hope.

D) Your grasping at air here Vox. Instead of pursing the shotty wagon like TL had started to and most likely others would come in with a good ole lurking case, he chose my case. Seemed kind of odd since all of his reasoning also kind of went back to Shotty and the Shotty Policy lynch attempt. Nothing about Avish but everything about Shotty. Perhaps I should be rethinking my analysis of shotty but it's difficult to do so since he's contributed so little and is massively lurking. '

@DP

After all of my posts since your summary all you've commented on is my use of the word implore. Yea I used a "big" word. You don't. What exactly was the purpose of posting that? And yes I would say I've become desperate. Vas will come with his post shortly and either set someone up for the hammer or hammer himself. I'm just trying to build a case against the most scummy candidate before I die and hope the town can win while I'm on the sidelines.

[Kingcheese]

Sorry I've been away for a bit, getting ready for Thanksgiving.

/prodded

Guys I have limmitted acess because the fairmont charges through the ass for internet usage, I want KC lynched please some one, drop the hammer.

This is just terrible. Do you have any reasons? You haven't said anything regarding why I should be lynched except "he's obv scum" here on day 2. Your Day 1 reasons all were admittedly misread by you yourself shotty. I've asked and asked. You've lurked the entire game. And are playing worse than by blind grandmother honestly. I know Vox will rip me for this but my opinion on Shotty is changing.

How is asking someone to hammer someone who will flip scum a bad thing to do!

You seem to be defending Shotty a lot this game DP. I'd imagine it's pretty tough to do considering how badly he's played. Why are you compelled to defend shotty's false logic with your own false logic?

You will probably hang me for this, but I believe its a good idea to say. I'm beginning to see that my previous assumption that Shotty and DP are scum buddies is shifting. I believe it is merely no longer a discussion point but the truth. This is followed by a short player analysis.

Shotty: Has lurked the entire game. I believe he was town previously because of how little time he has spent in this game. However I did say in a post to Vox that lurking could be scummy or an uninterested townie motive. I'm shifting to a scummy opinion.

DavidParker: Has defended shotty a lot with all (one) of his accusatory posts against me and not mentioned anything other than things at the start of the game. He also has defended shotty openly in most of his posts. All of my previous points on DP also apply here. Also his disapproval about discussing apparently anything with me is obviously fishy.

I was asked previously I believe by Vox what I thought of Leech and TL and I missed that so I'll answer it here.

Leech & TL: I believe it is Town vs. Town arguing. To me alot of TL's posts were questionable but matched the play style I pressed him on at the beginning of the game. I also think that if he was scum he wouldn't have admitted to lying. But it could change depending on what happens pretty easily. Leech on the other hand I'm getting a solid town read from. He shares alot of the same thought process I go through when I'm looking at the other players posts. I believe the previous thoughts about him leading the game were Leech with a town motive for doing so or an over analysis of his posts by me. He has defended me a lot regarding DP and Shotty. However a lot of his posts are as previously mentioned of my same thought process and I do not think that scum would attempt to defend a townine at this point in the game.

Vox: Townie read atm. Vox is taking a large part in scum hunting and is offering his suggestions and opinions on all voting wagons.

Vas: Vas is the only one I would also consider to may be scum however it is a slight scum read. It is slight as in I don't have any support my feelings but I do feel his last post was a little fishy as well as his DP vote.

Vas a question for you. If you voiced at first that you thought DP was town why are you changing your vote so suddenly to DP. I understand your reasons as they are some of my own but what compelled you to quickly shift your opinion.

[Kingcheese]

Leech, let me explain to you ONE last time about my statement, why you should STOP misrepping me:

First of all, I said D1, I thought shotty was scum. Today, I KNEW he was town, but said he was scum because I wanted a PL on him because I didn't want to admit I was wrong. What I said was that I'm admitting today I pushed him because of PL reasons, and I apologized for that.

I think you should misrep me more though, it's quite amusing.

What makes you so certain he is town today more so than yesterday?

[Kingcheese]

Actually the "vox will rip me for this" sounds a bit like subtle appealing

How so? Me and Vox have went back and forth about me thinking shotty was town and now that I am changing my opinions I assumed I would be seeing walls of accusatory posts. More like foreshadowing then appealing.

And Shotty is in the same boat as DP in not addressing any of my questions or concerns. Shotty still hasen't answered WHY he thinks I'm scum and I doubt he will.

[Kingcheese]

I'm not surprised KC is voting me and started a wagon on me. It was an easy wagon to start. With that said, the "omgus" wagon he started on me isn't what I found scummy. If I was town in his position I probably would have acted somewhat similar to him except I probably would have thought the person attacking me was town because recklessness generally comes from town. However, as emotions get in the way I can see why KC sees me as scum, but I am a bit more surprised that Vas voted for me although it doesn't really bother me all that much.

KC is still fixated on those questions of his and just trying to distract town from the real issue: he is scum.

That's an interesting analysis except it is not an OMGUS vote. I'm voting you for the same reasons that Leech has and I think Vas is.

I'm not really fixated on the answers to the questions I'm asking him but his refusal to answer them. It really isn't to difficult. Wish we would have Pl'ed him. If he was interested in becoming a player in this game he may want to answer some questions. Not answering questions is not a pro town thing if I'm not mistaken.

[Kingcheese]

Since no ones jumped in for awhile I'd like to ask DP a short question.

What are your thoughts on the other players excluding me. What are your reads on them etc.

[Kingcheese]

someone hammer before deadline please

Are you afraid of actually taking part in the game? You've been going with the flow and following DP for awhile now. Not answering anyone's questions. Not answering anyone about anything of any significance. "he's obv scum" "someone hammer before deadline" "lolz"

I have no problem with anyone voting me contradictory to what DP stated with his analysis of an OMGUS vote. However I do have a problem with voting just to go with the flow and not giving any reasoning. Shotty, you've been riding this wagon the entire day. None of your posts show any significance this day. I suggest you man up and start participating or you'll feel the all to common sequence of events that ends up with rope around your neck.

Vox and to a lesser extent DP have shared their opinions and I'm content with that. They have legitimate reasons for voting the way they did. You however Shotty, have absolutely no reason for voting me. This is the last time I'll ask: What are your reasons for voting the way you did? At this point I am almost content with "he smells bad." (sarcasm)

[Kingcheese]

No I believe TL is town. He came off a little strong for me during day 1. But the back and forth banter between him and Leech def looks town on town to me. I also believe the admitting to lying post seems to have town intentions however it could also be scum trying to save his ass after screwing up.

I'm confident that even if I'm lynched the town will pull through. I haven't done the best of painting myself as your pro town member however I believe I've done enough to show my thoughts on who's scum.

[Kingcheese]

I'm not convinced that if you think Shotty is scum, that you'd then think TL is town. This smells a little fishy to me, but at this stage, and the fact that you've claimed already, I'm happy to let that small fish be the straw that mixed my metaphor.

KC, could you give your top

three

scum reads, in order?

DavidParker
Shotty
Vas

I believe Dp is the most scummy canditate and his potential scum buddie could be shotty(likely) or vas(not as likely)

The recent "buddying" and the fact they both adopted the same strategy of: Don't answer KC's nearly worthless questions because it somehow paints me as town, kind of seals it for me. I've had a lingering feeling on Vas going back to my mister neutral posts but I don't really have any evidence saying: Vas is scum because of this. So I'm obviously not sure about it. Vox as taken part in scum hunting but in my eyes hasen't set himself apart from the others regarding his alignment. Leech and TL seem town to me.

I'm kinda of puzzled by DP's vote hop. It's not likely a Leech vote will happen at this stage. The only pro town reason you would vote Leech is because he believes he is more scummier than myself which he did note. However he notes he still finds me scummy. Now if he was scum as I believe, it seems as if he is trying to push a NL.

Dp does say he finds Leech more scummy than me in his justification. I understand we are cutting it close to deadline but why do you find Leech scummier than me, especially so close to the deadline where it would be simpler to go with a candidtate much more likely to be hammered

that you still find scummy

?

[Kingcheese]

We only have a little over 2 hours. I wish Leech would hop in here.

To be honest DP a NL lynch seemed like the only possibility you could have been trying to push there. Leech was in no way going to garner the voting support you needed so close to the deadline.

Your also FOSing Vox because he used his vote hop against him? Why wouldn't he? To me it seems like scum motivations could have been the only thing behind that vote hop. I'm not really sure how you could have found it town.

[Kingcheese]

First of all, I said D1, I thought shotty was scum. Today, I KNEW he was town, but said he was scum because I wanted a PL on him because I didn't want to admit I was wrong.

This

read between the lines.

and this.

For the last time my opinion on shotty has changed. While I conducted a readthrough since I had some time I came across that.

I had not come across it prior to this time. Which I am disappointed because it clearly pegs shotty as town and changes my entire opinion from most of the first two days.

If you haven't yet picked up on it I believe it is TL's message/silently outing himself of who he investigated night 1. Which means Shotty you are town.

Now I would like Shotty to please give your opinions on everyone else. And as I believe this is lylo. If the other town members (Me Shotty and ???) vote on one of ourselves then the remaining 2 scum will lynch and we will lose.


So to start the day I would like to

FOS Vox

because of this post:

KC, could you give your top

three

scum reads, in order?

I understand I asked a similar question to DP but I know understand what DP was saying when he typed up his refusal. He didn't want to help the NK process for scum.

So I would like to ask Vox what exactly were you wanting to know when you asked me that question? Trying to find the most unpopular player?

[Kingcheese]

KC: Two problems with your post

(1) You said you thought TL was town yesterday. But your reason for finding him town has only just become apparent? Are you perhaps pleading ignorance to TL's cop crumb yesterday so it can't be pegged against you in terms of his NK?

(2) If you posit that I'm scum, you ought also to logically posit that I killed TL because I thought he was the cop. However, your main reason for FoSing me is that I asked for 3 top suspects to assist my NK choice. Why would I need assistance with the NK choice if I felt I had already had discovered the cop?

As for why three suspects: I emphasised three because I wanted to see where you would put people beyond a two-person system. With two people, it's easy for scum to put two townies and avoid reasoning against their buddy. With three people, scum tend to include their buddy for distancing purposes. I find it interesting that your top two are townies. If I hadn't asked for top three, you'd have just kept on mentioning DP and Shotty (both townies). This was the purpose for asking for three.

Fair enough. As I wrote out my post I thought of your number 2 point to an extent but decided I would post in anyway to see what you would say.

Regarding number 1 I did not see it. I had pegged TL town for the reasons I highlighted in my previous posts.

I would like to see what xvart and vas have to say. And of course shotty. If your gonna bring your game shotty, nows the time bud.

And lastly regarding your last note I honestly did not have a third scum choice. Yourself and Vas just seemed to slide under the radar but didnt seem as scummy as Shotty or DP.

I'm rethinking my position on Leech/xvart and at this point everyone is at a moot point because I really don't have a clear scum read on anyone. Leech seemed town to me most of the game, but from reading his prior games I found that in some of the games he played in some of the times he seemed like the most pro town he was in fact scum.

So welcome to Xvart and lets get this day started.

[Kingcheese]

KC: So you only thought TL was a cop during the night? Or are you saying that you only retroactively found the crumbs after seeing that he was cop?

xvart: by "pointed them out" do you mean explicitly (as in, today) or when I told Leech to look closer at TL's posts?

Still after VV's take, and I'm very interested to see Shotty's opinion on the players left alive.

I found them after seeing he flipped cop. I was rereading the thread looking for scum candidates and decided to check out the argument between thelonging and Leech as I really didn't look into that much and was more focused on Dp and Shotty. Thats when I came across those two posts. To be honest I'm surprised and laughing at myself because I did not catch it to begin with. Considering I did ask him why he was so sure.

[Kingcheese]

vote KC

I guess everyone's posts this day and Vel's very nice post previous wasn't enough. You are in jeopardy of losing it for the town shotty. what. the. hell. Are you having trouble reading? And I think for about the 20th time I would like to ask why. WHY. Is it that I am so scummy that it doesn't need an explanation.

Remind me to replace out of any new games you and I are in from this point forward.

@Vox: If you remember right I didn't have a convincing reason why I thought Avish was town. I thought TL was town the same reason you thought he was town BEFORE the breadcrumb. Which was the fact that the argument between Leech and him seemed town. He didn't come up scummy to me at any point other than his first post where he was rather aggressive. Once I figured out it was his play style he slowly moved up into my town zone. If you remember for most of that day I had Shotty scum and TL town. If I would have picked up on the breadcrumb I think I would have backed off on that.

And I'm not really convinced on your Leech argument Vox. Yea it seems like it's may be logical but it wasn't that noticable of a breadcrumb. Or at least not to me. People miss stuff. And Leech's activity kinda of tailed towards the post of the breadcrumb.

[Kingcheese]

Congrats scum.

Bad play by town not letting me post there at the end. Maybe it's just me frustrated. Was going to address everyones concerns hopefully

Guess you can't win them all.

[Kingcheese]

Which means it was Leech and vas? That was what I was leaning towards in my next post that was coming. I felt that Vox was coming across town there at the end. And after rereading on leech's meta it seemed when he was towniest he was the scum. Vas still mister neutral. Well played by him. Hit all his points and never ceded really anything. Sort of lurked to an extent whether to his own choice or not but not enough for us to really call him on it.

I really thought DP was scum there. I'm wondering now if things would have gone diffrent if I was lynched and Dp was still here. Prob not since Vox would have voted him there too. I was fishing for scum there at the end I really had no idea. All indications were Dp and shotty there at the end. If pressed I would have voted Vas or Vox. Not sure which one.

I really missed the breadcrumb. I do wish you would have waited at least for some input from me. I went away for an afternoon and the day was over as soon as it began. Can't blame you though I would have lynched myself after day 1.

Definetly the last I play with Shotty. He didn't say anything of any signifigance the entire game except "lol hes obv scum bros." Def PL or replace out of.

In fact i'm changing my sig to shotty's infamous quotes. I think the first one will be "Well this would be a great time to say I win" -Town loss (Shotty... VT)

Had fun playing with you alot. Def plan to play more games here. Maybe I'll see you guys in a few games with me .

Any thoughts on how I played, any pointers? This is my first game ever playing and any help is appreciated I know I didn't play to well but what can you do sometimes you know? What exactly was scummy about my play? To me it just seemed like it was how I came off and my lack of support for my points.

[Kingcheese]

Nope, YAY I scum!

Wait wut? Are you being idiotic again or did TL fail? Big Time.

[Kingcheese]

What.... The.... F*ck....

[Kingcheese]

Lol wish that PL had gone through... What a mess.

[Kingcheese]

The game is as good as over I don't see why not. Just waiting for lynch scene so it's official.

[Kingcheese]

Although I FOSed vox I wanted to see what he would say because I was out of options. Since Shotty was confirmed town it was between Leech Vas and Vox. Although I renewed suspicion on xvart slash leech I was still feeling he was town despite my read through of his meta. Which left vox and vas. I wasn't sold on vox because well... I don't know it just seemed I couldn't get a case on him.

So I fished and used a reason DP had declined to answer to see if I could spur some sort of reaction. I would have backed off and would have proceeded to because I just couldn't make a damn case. Although a good point I remember is vas and vox went at each other early and I was like wtf. It really seemed like a badly formed case on both sides. If only I had connected the dots.

If pressed I would have voted vas. He just seemed to do nothing all agme and get away with it. Shy away from the spotlight you know.

Ill make a bigger post later today in school now hard to type on a cell phone.

[Kingcheese]

To answer your question more specifically Vox I relized that I had screwed up with my shotty as town but still part of a scum team gambit. Somewhere in one of my posts I contradicted myself and tryed to dig myself out of it. Didn't help you wouldn't let it die . Really most of the game my thoughts were day 1 PL Shotty. Avish is paranoid townie. It honestly looked like that. Long drawn out posts or walls if you will. She really was defending herself well. Day 2 I knew I would come under question for my laughable defence if you could call it that on Avish. But I didn't which surprised me. And then more surprising DP attacks me for... My Pling attempt on Shotty? That Leech started? And it seemed his points against me were all regarding shotty. Which I thought made something in my head click and say hey Mozeralla Head is it to hard to believe DP and Shotty are scum? I think thats where the gambit started that many were confused about. DP was my only suspect that day he came off SO scummy to me. He refused to even address me for most of the day and Shotty was the worst. Still need to put that Shotty quote in my sig. And then the vote hop thing with Leech. At first I thought he was pushing for a NL which was scummy regardless but Vox your point about getting TL on his wagon of me to end the day seemed very plausible. And that kinda of made me doubt the FOS I put on you. If Leech had played more neutral I would have pegged you as the one town of the other 3 unconfirmed scum.

In that final day I would have voted Vas. Mister Neutral wasn't a compliment. He just seemed like he was just there and arguing with Vox . But you pulled it off well. Although you would have probably got my final vote that day the town would still have lost. The fact I couldn't get through to shotty's thick skull to at least listen to my townie case really gave you guys the win. I did have my doubts on Leech/Xvart there at the end but my final choice would have been Vox and Vas and if I went back and remembered that early bus I would have definetly had a case. However Shotty... Good ol Shotty... *sigh*

Lets see what else.

Oh yes if TL didn't give the breadcrumb who would you guys have NKed? It might be in the quicktopic but I'll put it here just so I make sure someone reads it!

At what point were you certain you were not going to NK me? Was it my rolefishing on Eggy?

Which brings me to my next point. The eggy thing with the roleing and the fishing.

I hadn't seen it in games I had read (which should have been a warning sign!) I should have asked a much less sepcific question on the subject to see if it was acceptful. It wasn't to hard to infer that it WAS NOT accepted but for some reason ole mozzeralla here couldn't make things kick.

I don't blame TL. He got really over heated against Leech there which sort of made me back off on the situation. It just seemed like a flame fest for awhile.

To be honest Vox and Vas your early bussing really didn't help you if not hinder you. (If we had townies that would have thought before posting) There were much bigger fish to fry at the time and when I was reading it I was just like.... "wut??" "wtf are you attacking each other IT MAKES NO SENSE!" If I had time to reread I think that may have been something that changed Shottys mind that had previously been determined at the end of Day 1 for what I must assume as OMGUS reasons perhaps?

I hope we didn't scare off Avish. She was a good player I thought. Just had to get around some kinks in her game thought. Such as not voting herself.

I had marked Leech as Pro Town but since I didn't have any "solid" scum leads I brought all three of you to square one to see if I could find anything. My previous opinions on Leech would have likely been the same.

If I had to pick who was the better Scum this game I would have picked Vox. (No credit taken away from Vas. You played great Dude ) But vox really wasn't on anyones radar which is also kind of why I Fosed him there. There wasn't anything that was overly town but nothing really scummy. COngrats to you both again.

I had a fun 3 months though and am excited to be able to play in some of the normal games although I might play another newbie game without any other ongoing games first.

I know this is a mess but I just posted all my thoughts as I saw them.

Wish I can play with all of you again (Excluding Shotty) really had a blast.

[Kingcheese]

Oh I knew I was forgeting something:

Before this thread dies I'd like to thank Vel for modding. As I stated previously win or lose it was a very enjoyable experience and I think you deserve a good chunk of credit for that. Especially considering their were no major disasters and anytime I needed a vote count it seems as if it was about 3 or so posts up. Coincidence?... I think not....