Mafia 121 -- Picking Simplicity Game Over

[LimMePls]

/confirm

[LimMePls]

Vote: Uncertain Kitty

I find uncertainty scummy, as it allows the scum to sit around without an opinion until they see what way the town is going. MAKE UP YOUR MIND!

I like Jack's claim.

[LimMePls]

OK, I'm pretty sure that was an awful idea plus I don't even think that it can kickstart discussion.

FOS; Jack

- Honestly I don't think I buy it (Don't think he should be today's lynch though.)

Do you think this makes sense as a scum gambit?

[LimMePls]

OK, I'm pretty sure that was an awful idea plus I don't even think that it can kickstart discussion.

FOS; Jack

- Honestly I don't think I buy it (Don't think he should be today's lynch though.)

Do you think this makes sense as a scum gambit?

Honestly, yes. It won't last him to the end of the game of course but it would make him NK-Immune for a couple of days and allow him to lead the town until one of the real power roles kicked the bucket (and even then it would get the real role to come out and die before the next day.)

Oh, I see. You think Jack is basically making a move to out the power roles in exchange for his own inevitable lynch?

@Glork: What on earth does my asking Empking if he sees a scum motivation for Jack's play have anything to do with me being scum? I thought the claim looked clever, and I'm still not convinced it isn't.

[LimMePls]

Vote: -Empking.

Would any of you mind if I talked like t)(is wit)( t)(e )(s for t)(e rest of t)(e game?

Glork: If you're town, do you think it was a good idea to go around telling everyone what a great idea it would be for scum to shoot Jack tonight?

I think that the scums are just as capable as anybody else at figuring out whether it's in their interests to shoot at Jack or not.

Not posting it doesn't mean that nobody else is thinking it. Don't even try this sort of non-logic with me.


That said, thank you for outing yourself as LMP's scumbuddy.

That's awesome. If you disagree with Glork you must be scum.

[LimMePls]

Sure I can. What exactly has Nikanor done that is scummy?

[LimMePls]

Oh, bugger I was just following Glork eh...

1. His non-direct attacks against Glork.
2. His silliness on page 4.
3. His ignoring of your own posts.

1. Challenging something incorrect that Glork said is a non-direct attack?
2. The game is on page 3. I CAN HAZ UR TIME MACHINE?
3. Not particularly sure why this is scummy.

[LimMePls]

I'm getting the feeling I'm about to enter a catch-22. If I say "oh you're right, Nikanor is trying to avoid a connection with me" then I'm admitting that avoiding a connection with me is somehow scummy. If I say "No, Nikanor isn't avoiding a connection with me" then you'll only take that as further evidence that we're distancing from each other. I don't see the behavior that way because I don't see any reason why someone would be distancing from me. I don't accept your premise that I'm the scummiest person in the thread.

I don't know what else to say. I don't think Nikanor has been scummy.

@Empking: What is scummy about Nikanor's sillyness on page

4

3?

[LimMePls]

What's the case on LMP again? Like UK, I'm ignoring Jack's claim for now, continuing to talk about it is just going to push us into tunnel visioning Jack and allowing scum to coast through the game under the net.

Anti-hero, I lifted that post restriction ages ago!

I didn't think Jack's "claim" was bad and I didn't see why it would be an effective scum gambit. I think people have since pointed out to me that maybe it would be an effective scum gambit, but somehow my suggestion that it wouldn't be makes me scum. *Shrug*

[LimMePls]

You think Nikanor doing )( instead of H makes Nikanor more likely to be scum, because it is a non-sequitor? Am I interpreting this right?

[LimMePls]

So is it still a non-sequitor given this earlier in the thread:

Wood evry1 b pissed if I typed liek this all game long?

Don't you think that inspired Nikanor's )( joke?

[LimMePls]

Well it matters if you call someone scummy for doing it but not someone else. Isn't this obvious?

[LimMePls]

Unvote
Vote: Antihero

This is better.

[LimMePls]

LynchMePls's vote on Antihero may be the scummiest thing he's done all game.

Unvote
Vote: LynchMePls

I didn't see anything inherently scummy in his one post that would warrant wagoning on him. In fact, the timing of LMP's vote is bizarre, given that my earlier vote on him was based on his lack of posting beyond the RVS, especially past a point where serious shit was occurring. I mean, it really looks like bandwagoning for the sake of bandwagoning and hoping that everyone follows along.

I'm not sold on a Nikanor/LMP pairing yet.

You have to be kidding! Wow, that is hilarious. You scum buddies are funny.

LOL! Quote tags.

Vote: antihero

clearly someone isn't reading the game. I checked back and he's the only person who didn't comment in any way, shape, or form on the Jack situation so it's a good place to start.

I don't want him lynched but I think I need to see where this goes.

I had to make that random vote. In a previous game, Haylen gave me a post restriction where I could only post in barks. I needed revenge. And no, I didn't read the thread before I posted.

As for Jack, I'm with UK on that issue.

This is what we call an appeasement. You attacked him for his behavior, and he went out of his way to change his behavior based on your vote. And then there is blending with the "I'm with UK on that issue".

UNVOTE:

Glork: If you're town, do you think it was a good idea to go around telling everyone what a great idea it would be for scum to shoot Jack tonight?

Crap flinging much?

Parrot others-much?

Post 57 = deflection fail

VOTE: Nikanor

What's up with this, Jack?
And why is LMP nitpicking at the most minor point in what makes Nik scummy?

Why indeed! What is the purpose of this question? It looks like filler, and it is purposely vague, as well as more parroting (others were already "attacking" me for this). If he wants to come down on the LMP-scum side, he can. If he wants to come down on the LMP-town side, he can. This question is blending with town and not taking a stance. Which is hilarious, seeing as its the same position he is taking in regards to the Jack situation.

How on earth can you say "you need to see where this goes" and then when he makes this post, you say "there was nothing wrong with that post"!? Antihero needs rope, and then you do.

[LimMePls]

You must have serious confidence in your scumhunting skill if you can deduce ALL THAT from one post.

I do have a pretty big ego, not gonna lie.

Isn't that exactly what you just did here? You didn't explain your vote on antihero. I called you out for it. You went out of your way to explain your vote. Aren't you appeasing me?

My correcting your false interpretation of my vote is not appeasing. My behavior didn't change to appease you, I simply explained the behavior you didn't understand. If you can't see the difference between what I did and what Antihero did, then I don't know what else to say.

First of all, connecting me and antihero as scumbuddies is hilarious. Tell me, if I was scum with him, would I be that egregious in demonstrating it? In fact, wouldn't it be more beneficial to continue bussing him for town cred? Or are you calling me an idiot?

1) That is pure WIFOM.
2) If the shoe fits.

Second of all, Antihero's post wasn't good but it wasn't the damning evidence needed for his lynch either. Your vote, in the context of my vote and antihero's post, looks like you're trying to get on a bandwagon early. I don't know if that's right, that's what I saw.

It was really freaking bad. REALLY bad. Especially in context of your "I don't want this to be a lynch, but I want to see where it goes" (insert super-scummy post from Antihero) (insert my vote on Antihero for super-scummy post) "His post wasn't bad". How can you with a straight face defend Antihero's post, PARTICULARLY AFTER YOURS!

Finally, your post seems like you're attacking me simply because I'm voting you and because I don't think antihero is scummy anymore. So, where's the scum motivation?

Wait, so you've gone completely to "I don't think Antihero is scum anymore"!? WOW! What on earth justifies "I want to see where this goes" to "he's not scum"? As for attacking you, yes I'm going to attack players when they make terrible attacks on me.

[LimMePls]

I love how LMP tries to rail on me for "disagreeing with Glork" and then uses the "you're parroting" and/or accuses everyone who disagrees with him of being scum.


MAXIMIZE THE HYPOCRISY.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!? Who am I accusing of being scum for disagreeing with me? I want quotes.

Who are these others?

LMP: What are you trying to do with this discussion?

Why does it matter?

I like Empking already.

These two off the top of my head. I think there may have been others. Are you paying attention to the game?

I have no idea what LMP is trying to say.

What exactly is hard to understand. I'll be happy to try and clarfiy if you give me more than this.

On the other hand, this is kind of scummy, in an "overly concerned about what people think about him" kind of way.

That quote wasn't being overly concerned with what others think about me, it was acknowledging that the question was designed to make me look bad no matter how I answered it. I'm not supposed to object to questions like that?

Well it matters if you call someone scummy for doing it but not someone else. Isn't this obvious?

What in fuck's sake are you talking about?

I seriously don't understand how this can be confusing, I've played with you before and I know you're a smart person. Empking says Nikanor's non-sequitor is scummy. I point out that Nikanor's statment was actually just a joke in reference to your non-sequitor. Empking says "A statement in response to a non-sequitor is a non-sequitor" (something I'm not even sure I agree with). So I say if Empking thinks Nikanor doing it is scummy, but doesn't point out when you (AGar) did the same thing, that bears mentioning. Its a double standard. Why is it ok for you to make a joke about "is it ok for me to post in (insert comical posting style)?" but it's not ok when Nikanor did the same thing.

Do I need to quote the posts in order? Will that make it easier to understand?

I'm not certain what you're asking but...
1. There's a reason that point was last.
2. LMP liked Jack's claim. Town was like "Ugh" but LMP had to guess as to the feelings of the town with nothing to go on (he posted first) and he guessed completely wrong.

Bullshit. It wasn't a guess about what others think. I thought it was fine for a number of reasons:

1) I didn't see a scum motivation to a gambit like that (one has since been pointed out to me).
2) Jack could be telling the truth, but scum can't know if targetting him is good or not, since there is likely going to be a protect on him.
3) Jack could be gambiting as a VT. In that case, scum might just kill him (instead of a PR), or if he gets protected, scum waste an NK.
4) Jack's meta is full of D1 gambits like this, increasing the WIFOM quotient for the scum, and making their ability to guess whether he is telling the truth or not very difficult.

Lets not forget it also gave us something concrete to talk about, leading us out of RVS. For all those reasons, I was fine with his claim.

Who at the present time is the most scummy to you all? and Why?
Will you be happy with lynching Jack if both of those power roles are lynched/night killed? Needless to say, I will certainly be reading himin iso during the night.

Antihero, I've already explained why.
No. I find Jack gambiting-town in this situation pretty likely.

Why don't YOU answer these questions? We've all been participating in the game, and for most of us our answers are apparent from reading the thread.

[LimMePls]

I love how LMP tries to rail on me for "disagreeing with Glork" and then uses the "you're parroting" and/or accuses everyone who disagrees with him of being scum.


MAXIMIZE THE HYPOCRISY.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!? Who am I accusing of being scum for disagreeing with me? I want quotes.

Read again, genius. I didn't say you accused them of scum BECAUSE they disagreed with you. But you've attacked everyone who has happened to share a different opinion of you, a mere page after you tried to get me in trouble for doing the same thing.

This is a lie. Off the top of my head I know UK has said she finds me scummy, and I've never attacked UK. I'm sure there are others too.

[LimMePls]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: LynchMePls

You're trying to paint me as scum for something I never even referenced. I made my joke, yes, and then never followed up on it. Not once did I mention Nikanor's play on my joke, I asked why you insisted on bringing it up. I said I like Empking because he was echoing the sentiment of why are you bringing it up.

^^ This is so much fail. I'm not "trying to paint you as scum" I'm pointing out Empking's double standard in regards to you and Nikanor. Those things are not equal.

I'm not caught up on the thread, I've been super busy end of this week and weekend (being a holiday an all). I'll need V/LA a day or two, and then I'll get caught up.

[LimMePls]

I'm caught up. Some observations:

1) I <3 yos. I was beginning to feel like I was taking crazy pills.
2) AGar, glad we corrected that misunderstanding.
3) Snake is scummy.
4) Empking is even scummier.
5) Azazel and Antihero lurk like pros. Also, in case anyone forgot, look at their interactions earlier in the day. At least 1 of them is scum, possibly both.

Unvote
Vote: Empking

[LimMePls]

Hey I don't mind if you lynch me as that will protect a power role for one more night. But your all going to look mighty silly when I flu town and Glork and/or Espy don't.

Espy?

Nice AtE.

[LimMePls]

Snake's posting has been poor but I can't say I see him as much scum as the person I'm currently voting.

Empking decided LMP was scum because LMP was defending Jack.

Thisd isn't true. as I've said numerous times, I thought LMP was scum based on him expressing happiness at Jack's claim.

LMP explained quite clearly that he wasn't "expressing happiness" at Jack's claim, he was saying that Jack's play dosn't make sense as a scum gambit. And you didn't vote for him after he had explained this. So you clearly knew what he actually was saying; you just didn't care, since a literal (mis)reading of his words gave you an excuse to follow Glork and place a bad vote on someone. Just like you did with me a few posts later.

You are consistently ignoring what people obviously mean in favor of what you can quote them out of context as having said in order to attack you, and that's what gives you away as being scum.

Win.

[LimMePls]

Let's play your game then. At what threshold does an amount of posts switch from being very townie to being scummy?

This is an excellent question that points out the ridiculousness of Snake's "posting alot is scummy" theory.

[LimMePls]

I'm still more than happy with a Snake lynch, I reckon this is the play for Today. I'm not liking the CJwagon.

I agree with the general sentiment "how the hell did you get to page 12 without posting?" but I think all of these CJMiller votes are being made out of annoyance that the player has not made a single post up until now rather than because they think he is scum. Glork's reason is slightly different but is still just a variation on the theme.

It doesn't make CJ scum, it just makes him absent for the past week. Regardless of whether you blame him, the mod or the players (or a combination of the three) for letting him get this far his absence isn't a scumtell.

What do you think about the Empking case?

[LimMePls]

Yos: Give me a quote where LMP says that he doesn't like Jack's claim and

just

thinks its an unlikerly scum gambit. (other than when he quoted you and said "WIN")

I'm confused here by your thought process, empking; what did you think LMP meant by that line, if not "I think Jack is probably town"? It seemed obvious in context, especially after his next post.

That he considered Jack's claim as beneficial for town.

That wasn't how I read it, especially not in light of his next post. In any case; are you saying that you think that LMP has some incorrect ideas about mafia theory and about what is beneficial for the town, and that makes him scum?

Being happy about a page three claim by one of our two power roles in not "some incorrect ideas" it goes far beyond that (into scum).

This is absurd. I wasn't happy about the claim because it was a page3 PR claim, I was happy because it was likely a VT gambit that would spur discussion and not actually help the scum, even if he telling the truth. I thought it was pretty clearly a gambit, ESPECIALLY given that it is Jack we're talking about, and I didn't see how it would make sense as a scum gambit.

[LimMePls]

Fair point. I explained why earlier, though I still admitted that it's based on Snake's flip. I think I also didn't comment on the Empking wagon much, mostly because it didn't make a lot of sense. Though IIRC, I DID ask what was going on. Haylen never did as far as I can tell.

Haylen ignoring snake but conveniently jumping on CJ when a lot of other people were DOES still bug me though. It assumes Snake is scum, yes, which means Haylen is not the play today. But if Snake DOES flip scum, does it not become more suspicious that she magically appears for the counterwagon?

So if im lynched and when I flip town who are you looking at for Scum? Oh, that would be you perhaps for pushing the lynch maybe?

Why would UK pushing your lynch make her scummy even if you flip town? Town push mislynches all the time. It's the intent of a players actions that are important, not the results, and so far I see no scum intent in UK's play. I do see scummy intent in what you just posted though.

I don't think Haylen is scummy, I think Haylen is lazy.

Unvote
Vote: Snake

L-2

[LimMePls]

Lazy?

Yes, lazy.

Here is one post in particular I remember you being lazy:

Why don't YOU answer these questions? We've all been participating in the game, and for most of us our answers are apparent from reading the thread

Don't feel like it right now. I'm ill. I find it difficult to get any kind of read on Day One and prefer to try to gather information in the best ways I can - the first of which has not worked this game. I will however

Unvote Vote Lowell

.

On top of that is just the general laziness of all your posts. I think the "questions" you asked here were your largest contribution to the game for the vast majority of it, and I don't ever recall you persuing anything after you asked them. Here are specific lines from other posts that indicate laziness:

What's the case on LMP again?

I'm not sure what to make of Jack's SK 'obsession'

So what? The snake thing was too difficult to follow as everyone was posting at once

I didn't acknowledge that wagon because I was busy at the time and everybody was posting and it was too much to get my head round.

Ah, Ok. I'm just gonna continue doing what I'm doing then ^_^ I take the backseat on day one usually with info gathering.

Atm, I really am unable to see any truth in mothrax's or agars statement except what he has twisted out of proportion when I look at it through my own eyes. My gut is confused at the moment because it is not giving me reads on anybody. Stupid gut.

[LimMePls]

Would you like the explain the Snake wagon?

Missed this part. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Just ISO him, it's pretty obvious. Here is a list of scummy things Snake has done/said.

Right I haven't disappeared for pages in fact I think you'll find me on the last one. I am playing in 4 games currently and I am mod ding one off site, so it's a bit hard keeping notes on where I am in each one.

So not voting on Emp because he posts a lot? I think you'll find posting a whole lot is actually a scum tell as they tend to overcompensate to try and make themselves look like town by being an active 'scum hunter' then there's the other end of the scale where the lurkers avoid posting to keep their neck out of the noose and be forgotten about.

Are we anywhere near endgame anyway Lowell?

Absurd "posting alot = scummy" argument.

Really? Well UK your dumber than I thought then. Why exactly is it another reason? You still are yet to provide anything of worth to back that up. However I do agree with Emp looking the scummiest. I go back to my previous over posting theorem.

vote Empking

Obv bandwagon vote when pressure starts to mount on him.

Hey I don't mind if you lynch me as that will protect a power role for one more night. But your all going to look mighty silly when I flu town and Glork and/or Espy don't.

AtE.

Hey I won't bother dropping myself in it any deeper as I've screwed up from tye word go. I'm town, but your about to find that out real soon.

More AtE.

It depends on the frequency of posting throughout the game by everyone. Don't forget there will be those who will coast in the background to avoid getting picked out. But in my experience there is always at least one who really goes for it. Im not suggesting that you all follow my read, it's how I see the game. My judgement in part is made from that or at least for somewhere to start looking for the scum.

More trying to defend "lots of posting = scummy" terrible logic.

Better get ready then.

More more AtE.

So if im lynched and when I flip town who are you looking at for Scum? Oh, that would be you perhaps for pushing the lynch maybe?

Ridiculous suggestion that UK is scum for pushing his lynch.

I've screwed this game up enough...

unvote vote Snake

I know self voting is scummy, but I'm no good to you all here now. Apologies for not playing my best. Someone hammer pls and then you can sort out who the real scum are.

Do I really have to explain this one.

Seriously Haylen, what is hard to understand about this wagon? I don't care if you agree, but I don't understand how it is hard to follow. This is why I say I think you're lazy. Reading his ISO doesn't take much effort, its on one page.

[LimMePls]

try putting what you're writing into context before you post it.

1. Did you not read the first post you quoted? I was ILL, I had Bronchitis.

Frankly, and I know this will sound rude, but I don't care. I find the IRL excuses (I'm sick, I'm busy, I'm tired, my dog ate my homework) both unnecessary and frankly a bit scummy (because I see them as a form of AtE - ie. "Don't judge me, I've got excuses!"). If you can't play, then go V/LA until you can. If you can't play over an extended period, then replace out (and I hope you feel better soon). But if you choose to stick in the game, but don't put any effort in, I have no sympathy for the excuses, and yes it looks lazy.

2. I asked about the case on you and nobody answered.

This is untrue. I answered, and I know someone else did as well. Also, why can't you read the game and find the answer yourself? I have a theory why you can't (HINT: Your play is lazy) Do you want me to go quote the posts for you? Cause I will (cause I'm not lazy).

3. I was stating something about Jack's SK thing and then Nikanor answered it to a satisfactory standard.

You said you were "not sure" about Jack's "SK obsession". So why not do something about it (ask questions, reread, ANYTHING) until you can be sure. Just throwing up your hands and declaring you are "not sure" without following up on it is lazy.

4. I have asked someone to explain the whole Snake thing and guess what! Nobody has!

THIS IS WHY I CALL YOU LAZY. This game isn't that hard to follow. We're only on page 16, and there have only been a half dozen or so major issues. If you don't understand something, read it again! It can't be that hard, all the other players (ok, MOST of the other players) seem to be able to follow it just fine.

5. And that is the point, my day one play is mostly asking questions and gathering information. I don't know how to play Day One without any.

But asking questions doesn't do any good if you don't follow them up with anything. To me it comes off as lazy to ask a question, get answers, and then never give us an opinion/interpretation/reaction/follow-up-question about them. It reeks of active lurking (Let me ask some questions! See how productive I am?)

6. You just randomly put that last quote in there.

If you don't see how:

Atm, I really am unable to see any truth in mothrax's or agars statement except what he has twisted out of proportion when I look at it through my own eyes. My gut is confused at the moment because it is not giving me reads on anybody. Stupid gut.

is lazy, then I don't know if I can help you. If you are unable to see any truth to their statements, throwing your hands up and copping out "stupid gut" is lazy. PUSH THEM OVER IT. ASK THEM SOME QUESTIONS! DO YOU THINK THEY'RE BEING SCUMMY!? WHY/WHY NOT!?

To summarise: You've got nothing on me and I think you're just mentioning something about me to make it look as though you're posting content when you really arent.

This comment is hypocrisy to the max. Absolutely hysterical, and only proves my point.

PEDIT:

@ Jack - he's trying to pretend to be posting content by using those out of context quotes as evidence.

PRETEND!? OUT OF CONTEXT!? ARE YOU KIDDING ME! They are evidence of you being lazy, and they are most certainly not out of context. I say you are lazy and not scummy, because I don't see scum motivations/intentions in your play. Wow... simply wow.

[LimMePls]

Truth hurts.

[LimMePls]

Lynch diving on Haylen like that because she offered me advice is not particularly nice or your tone to her explanations

Well I'm not trying to make friends and influence people, I'm speaking the truth as I see it. If some people can't handle that, it's not my fault. I'll fully admit my "tone" isn't "nice", but frankly, I'm frustrated with a post every 5 pages asking everyone else to explain things, and then posting "no one explained when I asked" when that is simply false followed by "I'm not lazy!" It's absurd.

@Lynch I think you agrees ion towards my obvious scumminess is blinding your judgement some what. Ask yourself this if you so sure I'm scum and when its revealed I'm not what will be your position then?

If you read what I've said, this is obvious. I think that an Azazel/Antihero scum pair is likely and I think Empking is scummy. They will be an excellent place to start tomorrow, plus the analysis of your wagon. The question seems like ANOTHER AtE (don't lynch me, you won't know what to do if I'm town).

My turn: You admit that you have "obvious scumminess", to the point that you were willing to self vote. If you were in another player's shoes, would you lynch you? Why/why not?

[LimMePls]

until that happens I see no reason to assume you are anything but scum.

Reread this and tell me this doesn't look stupid.

I think that Snake and Haylen are town because they are acting like town.

LMP, do you find Haylen scummy? How about Snake?

I already said I find Haylen lazy, not necessarily scummy, and I'm voting Snake. Isn't this obvious?

[LimMePls]

I already said I find Haylen lazy, not necessarily scummy, and I'm voting Snake. Isn't this obvious?

Not when you're attacking Haylen.

Why is arguing with someone = attacking? I said she was lazy, she asked why I was saying that, I pointed to the reasons I made that assertion, and she disagreed with me. We are disagreeing over my statement that she is lazy, and I'm not "attacking" her. I believe Haylen's play is anti-town (lazy and unwilling to engage with the game), but I don't think its scummy.

[LimMePls]

I'm looking at the votecount and I don't recall being the first on the Snake wagon (not that I have a problem with it, it's a good wagon, but that's kind of weird).

*PING* We've got scum contact off the starboard bow!

Are you trying to distance yourself from this wagon before we've seen the flip?

[LimMePls]

My case on Antihero (and Azazel by association) is best understood by this sequence of posts:

Azazel: how many games have you played here?

Enough. It's been a while though.

I can't believe how much idiocy I'm seeing demonstrated by some of the players. No, I'm not talking about the humor. Jack's claim was idiotic but not scummy. I think Glork has already pointed out why and I don't feel the need to spell it out again.

Vote: antihero

clearly someone isn't reading the game. I checked back and he's the only person who didn't comment in any way, shape, or form on the Jack situation so it's a good place to start.

I don't want him lynched but I think I need to see where this goes.

(Notice "I don't want him lynched, but I think I need to see where this goes". SCUMMY!)

LOL! Quote tags.

Vote: antihero

clearly someone isn't reading the game. I checked back and he's the only person who didn't comment in any way, shape, or form on the Jack situation so it's a good place to start.

I don't want him lynched but I think I need to see where this goes.

I had to make that random vote. In a previous game, Haylen gave me a post restriction where I could only post in barks. I needed revenge. And no, I didn't read the thread before I posted.

As for Jack, I'm with UK on that issue.

UNVOTE:

Glork: If you're town, do you think it was a good idea to go around telling everyone what a great idea it would be for scum to shoot Jack tonight?

Crap flinging much?

Post 57 = deflection fail

VOTE: Nikanor

What's up with this, Jack?
And why is LMP nitpicking at the most minor point in what makes Nik scummy?

(Notice Antihero bending over backwards to appease the person voting him, followed by completely unoriginal statements/opinions that were not scum hunting at all ie. "I think what UK thinks", along with IMO terrible Nikanor vote)

Unvote
Vote: Antihero

This is better.

LynchMePls's vote on Antihero may be the scummiest thing he's done all game.

Unvote
Vote: LynchMePls

I didn't see anything inherently scummy in his one post that would warrant wagoning on him. In fact, the timing of LMP's vote is bizarre, given that my earlier vote on him was based on his lack of posting beyond the RVS, especially past a point where serious shit was occurring. I mean, it really looks like bandwagoning for the sake of bandwagoning and hoping that everyone follows along.

I'm not sold on a Nikanor/LMP pairing yet.

LOL! Simply LOL! This is absolutely hysterical. Pay particular attention to the context here, this post is less than 4 hours after his previous one (the one I quote above). Once I start pushing him over this issue, Azazel gives us 2 more posts, and then does his vanishing act with unanswered questions from me. Very convenient.

I'm pretty sure they are both scum.

Vote: Antihero

[LimMePls]

(Notice "I don't want him lynched, but I think I need to see where this goes". SCUMMY!)

How is this scummy? He's saying that he wants to see why he didn't comment on the Jack claim. That's logical enough; hell, I would even call it pro-town that he was the first one to notice Antihero was the only person to avoid commenting on Jack's {Cop, Doctor} claim.

It's scummy because its distancing himself from his own vote. What was the purpose of that vote, to instigate a reaction/participation from Antihero? If so, why immediately undercut it with the "I don't want him lynched..." crap.

Notice Antihero bending over backwards to appease the person voting him

This isn't even close to a partner tell. Why would Antihero be concerned about appeasing his scumbuddy? Honestly, I don't see how this is "bending over backwards", either. He explained his vote, like he was asked to do. He didn't buddy up at all, he didn't do anything extra, he just explained himself.

That's actually a good point. It's certainly appeasement, but I don't think that the appeasement was the partner tell. The partner tell was the way Azazel responded to my vote on Antihero that made me think the whole sequence looked like scum distancing. I call it bending over backwards because he didn't comment on the stuff, someone comes in and vote him for not commenting on the stuff, and then he makes a large post commenting on all the stuff he hadn't commented on. He was obviously concerned with what people thought about him.

followed by completely unoriginal statements/opinions that were not scum hunting at all ie. "I think what UK thinks"

You know, there's only so many stances you can take on a P1 claim. "Yes, I believe the claim". "No, I don't believe the claim.". "I don't know what to think about the claim". So of COURSE his opinion is going to be unoriginal. Also, what statements are you talking about? I only see one.

The whole post had multiple statements in it, and they were all repetitions of other things people had said. For instance, some of his "questioning" towards me was all things AGar and Empking had already said, the position on Jack was "sheep UK", and his vote was a bandwagon vote. The whole post was large and completely lacking in a) original thought b) scumhunting.

Once I start pushing him over this issue, Azazel gives us 2 more posts, and then does his vanishing act with unanswered questions from me. Very convenient.

Are you using flaking as a scumtell? REALLY?
There's no way in hell your questions were so pressuring and accurate and good that you made him quit. Sorry, you're not that good.

[/quote]

I'm definitely using flaking when under direct questioning for scummy actions as a scum tell, yes. Of course you're going to say he isn't scum that flaked under pressure, since YOU ARE HIS REPLACEMENT.

[LimMePls]

LMP's case = hilarious epicfail.

Stating it doesn't make it true Antihero. One of you is scum, and I think both is a strong possibility.

nacho, I eagerly await the UK case.

I bet you do. If someone else doesn't provide the content for you, how can you pretend to have an original thought? Keep buddying with Azazel/nacho though, I like it. Alot.

[LimMePls]

Wait. Since when do you think Azazel is scum, and who is he scumbuddies with? Why is it funny? More precisely, why are you dismissing it as hilarious without addressing it?

Since that post where he did the 180 on Antihero after Antihero's blatantly scummy post. I was addressing it, it lead to the massive interactions with Azazel.

Here's a good post 373 from LMP. Juxtaposing all these posts together doesn't Haylen look so good. A quick question though, have these two played together before?

We were in one game together that I know of, [self-redacted-because-it-is-ongoing] but she was daykilled before she ever made a substantive post (I think just 1 RVS vote). I don't believe we've played together in any other games. Why does it matter?

[LimMePls]

Haylen is starting to creep me out. Losing that "lazy-town" read and working on scum.

Not sure I buy AGar wagon. All I see is "he said he doesn't like meta, but he's attacking Haylen". Someone needs to clarify this for me please.

[LimMePls]

^^No it isn't. Look at Antihero's post after Azazel's "I need to see where this goes" buisness. That post is from scum. Period.

[LimMePls]

@AGar's post: First, being abrasive is a scumtell if you aren't abrasive as town.
Second, your argument about being good as scum is dumb. You obviously can't use meta properly. Just because you haven't fucked up in the past doesn't mean that you can't fuck up in this game.
Third, I'm not trying to improve the site and rid it of VIs and whatnot. I'm trying to win

this

game, and I believe that lynching Haylen will not help me win this game.

Pretty much this.

[LimMePls]

*bangs head on wall*

Look at Antihero's post in response to Azazel. IT WAS SO SCUMMY IT'S SICK. The association on Azazel is when he suddenly unvotes and votes me for voting Antihero. That portion is not what the case was, the case was against Antihero for the post he made. This is not hard.

[LimMePls]

Nacho, your 512 is really good. I kinda wanted to wait and see how UK responded to it, but the whole thing is pretty awesome.

[LimMePls]

530 was really underwhelming. I don't think you adequately defend yourself from a single one of his decent points. You accuse him of empty rhetoric, but your entire response amounts to "nuh uh, you're wrong and stupid!"

Unvote
Vote: UK

[LimMePls]

Wow, I didn't realize I let myself go 6 days. Sorry everybody, and thanks RC for giving me a kick in the pants.

I see a few UK votes, which I don't understand. Reading nacho's case.

You "let" yourself go 6 days? So you've been not posting on purpose?

[LimMePls]

579 is win. I was beginning to feel like I was talking to myself on this Antihero = scum thing.

@Haylen: Breaking a promise is lying.

[LimMePls]

I see a few UK votes, which I don't understand. Reading nacho's case.

You see a few UK votes, that you don't understand, but you know there is a nacho case on UK you haven't read yet!? Wow, this is so awesome.

Unvote
Vote: Antihero

Srsly people, this wagon is win. Don't forget this gem late yesterday as well:

I'm looking at the votecount and I don't recall being the first on the Snake wagon (not that I have a problem with it, it's a good wagon, but that's kind of weird).

[LimMePls]

Obviously I disagree with a number of the characterizations from Nocmen. In particular:

LMP's defense seems to be "that's funny".
Azazel's exchange with LMP seems a bit weird, but I still think it leans more towards LMP as scum.

I said "that's funny" but that's not all I said, they were long posts with perfectly logical points. Explain how the defense was "that's funny". What does it mean for our exchange to be "a bit weird, but leans more towards LMP as scum"? Explain how that exchange makes me scum please.

I find Yos's defense of LMP weird at this time. I don't know if Yos would do so much obvious buddying with LMP, but it's possible still as a gambit. Though if I had to take a guess, I think that Yos and LMP are of opposite factions, but I don't know which of those two would be the scum.

Please explain the logic behind this statement. How, at that point in the game, did you arrive at the conclusion that we were of opposite alignments, but you don't know which one would be scum.

LMP seems to ask eldarad about Emp in the middle of the Snake/CJ wagons.

Empking was still a viable wagon with as many or near as many votes as Snake/CJ. eldarad had also been away from the thread awhile (during the whole build up of the Emp wagon) without ever taking a stance on it, so I wanted a comment from him on it. Explain how my asking for his opinion on Empking "in the middle of the Snake/CJ wagons" is scummy when I was still pushing for an Empking wagon.

LMP joins this wagon late as well, with little to no actual reasoning towards the vote on Snake.

Flatly false. To quote myself:

Would you like the explain the Snake wagon?

Missed this part. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Just ISO him, it's pretty obvious. Here is a list of scummy things Snake has done/said.

Right I haven't disappeared for pages in fact I think you'll find me on the last one. I am playing in 4 games currently and I am mod ding one off site, so it's a bit hard keeping notes on where I am in each one.

So not voting on Emp because he posts a lot? I think you'll find posting a whole lot is actually a scum tell as they tend to overcompensate to try and make themselves look like town by being an active 'scum hunter' then there's the other end of the scale where the lurkers avoid posting to keep their neck out of the noose and be forgotten about.

Are we anywhere near endgame anyway Lowell?

Absurd "posting alot = scummy" argument.

Really? Well UK your dumber than I thought then. Why exactly is it another reason? You still are yet to provide anything of worth to back that up. However I do agree with Emp looking the scummiest. I go back to my previous over posting theorem.

vote Empking

Obv bandwagon vote when pressure starts to mount on him.

Hey I don't mind if you lynch me as that will protect a power role for one more night. But your all going to look mighty silly when I flu town and Glork and/or Espy don't.

AtE.

Hey I won't bother dropping myself in it any deeper as I've screwed up from tye word go. I'm town, but your about to find that out real soon.

More AtE.

It depends on the frequency of posting throughout the game by everyone. Don't forget there will be those who will coast in the background to avoid getting picked out. But in my experience there is always at least one who really goes for it. Im not suggesting that you all follow my read, it's how I see the game. My judgement in part is made from that or at least for somewhere to start looking for the scum.

More trying to defend "lots of posting = scummy" terrible logic.

Better get ready then.

More more AtE.

So if im lynched and when I flip town who are you looking at for Scum? Oh, that would be you perhaps for pushing the lynch maybe?

Ridiculous suggestion that UK is scum for pushing his lynch.

I've screwed this game up enough...

unvote vote Snake

I know self voting is scummy, but I'm no good to you all here now. Apologies for not playing my best. Someone hammer pls and then you can sort out who the real scum are.

Do I really have to explain this one.

Seriously Haylen, what is hard to understand about this wagon? I don't care if you agree, but I don't understand how it is hard to follow. This is why I say I think you're lazy. Reading his ISO doesn't take much effort, its on one page.

How does that = "little to no actual reasoning"?

LMP gives a few quotes on Azazel and Antihero, but just says "this is funny, then he vanishes". I'm starting to notice that ever since LMP got called out for "thinking too much of what others think of him", he's been coming and going, posting a lot less.

Completely lacking context. I provided those quotes because I was specifically asked for my case on Antihero, so I wasn't just saying "this is funny, then he vanishes", I was specifically showing why I think Antihero is scum (and Azazel is probably his buddy). Secondly, the notion that I'm posting much less is completely lacking in any factual basis. If you have any way to back that assertion, I'd love to hear it.

Jack's case on Antihero is interesting, as well as with the fact that Anti dissappeared for a bit without posts.

This makes me LOL.

I find all of Nocmen's catchup posting looks like it was designed to reach the conclusion to vote me. In particular this quote:

I find Yos's defense of LMP weird at this time. I don't know if Yos would do so much obvious buddying with LMP, but it's possible still as a gambit. Though if I had to take a guess, I think that Yos and LMP are of opposite factions, but I don't know which of those two would be the scum.

doesn't make sense to me at all, and makes me wonder if Nocmen already knew the Yos flip as he was reading the game.

[LimMePls]

LMP: Maybe I was getting a bit too narrow minded during my read through on you. But I saw you as possibly scummy early on, something that I would have quickly voted and pushed for had I been there when it occured. It just so happened that you did a lot more scummy things since then that made me feel more that you were scum.

How can you admit to maybe being "narrow minded" during your first read? Are you saying you saw early stuff and then that lead to confirmation bias? How does that explain your "these two have different alignments, but I don't know which is which" bit? If you thought early on that I was scum, then wouldn't you say "I think these two have different alignments, and I think LMP is the scummer" or something like that?

For the lack of reasoning, you're quoting posts, and adding a few words summary to that. There's not much real content you're adding, as well as the fact that people have said a lot of that before. I felt as if you just were quoting most of Snake's posts so it looks like you really did have reasoning for voting him.

So quoting someone's posts that are scummy and then explicitly pointing out after the quote what was scummy is equivalent to "quoting most of Snake's posts so it looks like you really did have a reasoning for voting him"? How do you know it is "trying to look like having reasons" and not the more obvious "actually having reasons"?

With the Yos flip, I saw it as such:
Both scum: I don't think Yos would do so much buddying on LMP, while this is WIFOM, it's still very risky, because as soon as one of you flipped scum, it would lead to a large suspicion on the other.
Both are town: Yos defends LMP trying to get a different wagon for what he saw, and LMP takes it knowing he has at least one person that agrees with him.
Yos is scum, LMP is town: Yos would be defending LMP to try and get town cred, by going against one of the wagons early on, if LMP was to come up town.
LMP is scum, Yos is town: This one you can't look as Yos's defense too much, but LMP's responses to Yos seemed as if LMP was desparately trying to find something to grab on to.

Nice try, but this isn't answering the question. The question is, on D1, how would you know that we're opposite alignments from that interaction. As you just summed up here, there are perfectly plausible explanations for scum-scum and town-town. What exactly made you assume that we had to be of different alignments? You don't satisfactorily explain how our interaction can't be town-town, and your "both scum" above may be unlikely, but can't be ruled out. Your statement that we were "different alignments, but I don't know which is which" is inexplicable.

I love that only having a couple posts a day is somehow scummy, simply because my number of posts dropped from the first day. Here's a random thought: Perhaps I just happened to be more active on the first day than my norm, and the rest of my activity has been consistant with my usual play. Why would you immediately leap to the more sinister conclusion that the first day is my "norm" and the rest of my play is what is anomalous?

Your case is contrived.

@Jack: 2 scum there, if Azazel/Nacho isn't scum with Antihero, they might all 3 be scum.

P-edit: @Jack - Those quotes win.

[LimMePls]

I couldn't find a reasoning behind both of them acting as their own will for that, as I'm just not seeing much of LMP's play being consistent with town. While it is possible for both of them to be town, I think it's a lot more unlikely.

This is directly contradictory with:

I think that Yos and LMP are of opposite factions, but I don't know which of those two would be the scum.

And your explanations are fail. The only conclusion I can draw is that you contrived your whole opening posts to end setting you up to vote me. Your statement that you maybe were "narrow minded" only furthers that thought. Which makes me think you are scum looking for the most convenient mislynch.

Unvote
Vote: Nocmen

Your buddy Antihero is for tomorrow.

[LimMePls]

LMP: How is that contradictory? I think it's very unlikely that both you and yos are town, isn't that what I said in both of those quotes?

Also, what say you about the rest of the case I have on you?

"I'm just not seeing much of LMP's play being consistent with town" and "I think that Yos and LMP are of opposite factions, but I don't know which of those two would be the scum." are directly contradictory. If you felt like I was scum and he was town, why wouldn't you just say that? You seem to be arguing here that my play was scummy and his was townie, but when you made the post you said "I think that Yos and LMP are of opposite factions, but I don't know which of those two would be the scum." which implies that you think I could be town. Thus a contradiction. You also fail to satisfactorily explain how you would think that 1 of us is town and 1 scum.

The scum motivation I see here is that you wanted to appear to arrive to LMP = scum conclusion through the course of your "read", but early in the read you seem to already have your mind made up without sound explanation. You now suggest that you saw stuff early that you made you suspect me and then got "narrow minded", but that doesn't make sense if you were at "I don't know which is town". The whole thing is contrived.

I mentioned quote by quote the rest of the problems with your case. They are above. Read it yourself scumbag.

[LimMePls]

I'm fine with Antihero wagon. Nocmen can wait to tomorrow, apparently some people are fooled by his "look at all this catchup stuff, aren't I pro-town (nevermind that it is completely contrived and full of contradictions/falsehoods)".

Unvote
Vote: Antihero

@VV: Your AGar case is not at all as damning as you think it is.

[LimMePls]

The only interaction LMP identifies is a supposed chainsaw defence between azazel and antihero, which doesn't mean a lot at this point.

It wasn't a chainsaw defense, it was that he claimed to completely change his opinion of Antihero because Antihero made 1 post (and it was a scummy post at that!) Go back and look at it. He votes Antihero "to see where this goes", Antihero makes 1 post (IMO incredibly scummy) and Azazel goes on to call him town!!! It's completely illogical.

[LimMePls]

I'm fine with Antihero wagon. Nocmen can wait to tomorrow, apparently some people are fooled by his "look at all this catchup stuff, aren't I pro-town (nevermind that it is completely contrived and full of contradictions/falsehoods)".

Unvote
Vote: Antihero

@VV: Your AGar case is not at all as damning as you think it is.

Are you just trying to flip between Anti and Me, and going whichever is most popular?

We've got a live one here. SQUIRM SCUM!

[LimMePls]

@VV: Tunneling isn't scummy. If town thinks a particular player is scummy, why wouldn't they push it hard? I see "tunneling" thrown around all the time, and I've never seen someone accused of it flip scum. This is anecdotal from my point of view, but I don't understand why you think it is a major scum tell. Why are scum more likely to tunnel than town?

Tunneling is one of those buzzwords I hear thrown out when people want to look like they are scum hunting when they aren't actually scum hunting. If tunneling is the best thing you've got, your case isn't at all "damning".

[LimMePls]

Either I fail at explaining this, or people fail at seeing it (although Jack seems to at least understand what I'm saying, so I can't be too crazy) so let me try again.

Vote: antihero

clearly someone isn't reading the game. I checked back and he's the only person who didn't comment in any way, shape, or form on the Jack situation so it's a good place to start.

I don't want him lynched

but I think I need to see where this goes.

LynchMePls's vote on Antihero may be the scummiest thing he's done all game.

Unvote
Vote: LynchMePls

I didn't see anything inherently scummy in his one post that would warrant wagoning on him. In fact, the timing of LMP's vote is bizarre, given that my earlier vote on him was based on his lack of posting beyond the RVS, especially past a point where serious shit was occurring. I mean, it really looks like bandwagoning for the sake of bandwagoning and hoping that everyone follows along.

Finally, your post seems like you're attacking me simply because I'm voting you and

because I don't think antihero is scummy anymore

. So, where's the scum motivation?

It is a complete reversal of opinion on Antihero based on this one (IMO highly scummy) post:

LOL! Quote tags.

Vote: antihero

clearly someone isn't reading the game. I checked back and he's the only person who didn't comment in any way, shape, or form on the Jack situation so it's a good place to start.

I don't want him lynched but I think I need to see where this goes.

I had to make that random vote. In a previous game, Haylen gave me a post restriction where I could only post in barks. I needed revenge. And no, I didn't read the thread before I posted.

As for Jack, I'm with UK on that issue.

UNVOTE:

Glork: If you're town, do you think it was a good idea to go around telling everyone what a great idea it would be for scum to shoot Jack tonight?

Crap flinging much?

Post 57 = deflection fail

VOTE: Nikanor

What's up with this, Jack?
And why is LMP nitpicking at the most minor point in what makes Nik scummy?

So, he votes him "but I don't want to see him lynched" and then later he says "because I don't think antihero is scummy anymore". First off, he tried to make his initial vote sound as weak as possible, and then later he made it sound like he had a scum read of antihero, but it's changed now, and all over this one god awful post. IT IS ILLOGICAL. I think Azazel's vote on Antihero was designed for distancing, but then he saw the opportunity to join my wagon (saying that his reasons are better than all the other reasons). It seriously doesn't make sense. Think about his language: "but I need to see where this goes". Did he actually wait to "see where this goes"? No, he almost immediately let up on Antihero, going on to say "because I don't think antihero is scummy anymore". It was simply absurd. And the only reason this all went to the back burner D1 is because he flaked out with a ton of questions on the table about it.

[LimMePls]

Did Nocmen just call me opportunistic for voting Antihero? Rly!?

[LimMePls]

I'm sorry, I'm still back where Nocmen called me opportunistic for voting Antihero. That's how stunned I am.

[LimMePls]

I don't think we should lynch Nacho or UK. Antihero is still a better lynch. If we lynch UK, and she is the SK, all we're doing is helping the scum. If we lynch Nacho, we risk lynching the cop. I say we let the situation play itself out, and lynch scum-Antihero.

nopoint trying to direct the doc protect is massively scummy. Regardless of who we believe is what, there is no way we should be calling the doctor to protect a specific target.

[LimMePls]

Nothing to see here, move along.

[LimMePls]

OMFG, Delete please, I did not see the final posts, I post before reading the whole thread. SORRY!

Prior post wiped. ~~NS

[LimMePls]

First off, the post that I made when the thread was faux-locked read something like(I don't have it exactly):

Did you miss the "I'm the real SK" claim by Jack?

No, but this is Jack we're talking about. I think he is gambiting to push the UK lynch. Only an idiot-SK would counter claim a fake SK claim, and Jack's not an idiot.

I'm not ruling out that Nacho is gambiting the cop claim here, he has been pushing the UK case all day, and this may be a last ditch push at a diminishing wagon.

Like I said, I don't have the exact post anywhere, I wish I'd saved it before it got edited out. Based on the speed of that lynch, I guarantee you there is 2 scum on the back end. That puts 2 scum (possibly 3) in {Xine, Empking, RedCoyote, Lowell, Eldarad}. My money is on Eld and Empking. Both voted on that wagon on the tail end with completely content-less posts (ie just votes). They weren't interested in considering the ramifications of lynching the SK. Given Empking's earlier game scummy actions, I think the best place to start is

Vote: Empking

Antihero is also a great lynch if we still want to go that way.

[LimMePls]

You people are retarded. UK was right, you're all stupid. Scum deserve the win they're gonna get.

VT. When I'm gone look at the people on my list from the UK wagon, Antihero, and sadly, Jack if you all decide to pull your heads out of your asses and actually hunt scum.

[LimMePls]

I'm at L-1. How the hell is that no pressure on me? And I've produced all I can. Apparently being right about not lynching the claimed SK makes one scum. I have no idea why, so I don't really know how to defend from the terrible wagon on me.

[LimMePls]

Your "case" on me yesterday was a contrived joke, as is the wagon on me today.

[LimMePls]

LynchMePls is still scum, as of Post 376. Why is he still alive?

There is nothing that needs defending here. What exactly is the problem?

LynchMePls is still scum, as of Post 431. Why is he still alive?

There is nothing that needs defending here. What exactly is the problem?

And then LMP picks the worst reason to go after Antihero. These guys are firing blanks at each other. -_-

This is so ridiculous. Look through the thread, Antihero scum is obvious. I have certainly not been firing blanks.

The Patented Unvote from LMP. I knew his vote on Antihero wouldn't last very long. (Yes, I believe that Antihero and LMP are scum together.)

That is hilarious. I unvoted to push another case, and then came back to Antihero. Your point here is nonsensical. If I had just been looking for a reason to unvote Antihero, why would I go back to him?

This is what you people are sheeping? Really!? Simply absurd.

[LimMePls]

And then LMP picks the worst reason to go after Antihero. These guys are firing blanks at each other. -_-

So, LMP crapattacks me, and I'm implicated because ...

scum only fling poop at their buddies?

If so, there's a larger scum team then 4.

No, it's the fact that you're both flinging crap at each other while ignoring acutal valid points against one another. I'm pretty sure I made that clear in my readthrough. Nice misinterp, champ.

So you ask for my response to your craptastic points, I respond, and you've got nothing? What were the good points against Antihero that I didn't point out in favor of the bad points?

Honestly, this is so mind numbingly frustrating.

[LimMePls]

My wagon is still terrible. Glork still hasn't answered my questions. I don't really know what else to say.

[LimMePls]

I ignored your questions cause they are stupid and basically just me restating what I've already said. Here you go:

Based on the speed of that lynch, I guarantee you there is 2 scum on the back end. That puts 2 scum (possibly 3) in {Xine, Empking, RedCoyote, Lowell, Eldarad}. My money is on Eld and Empking. Both voted on that wagon on the tail end with completely content-less posts (ie just votes). They weren't interested in considering the ramifications of lynching the SK.

So you think that the speed of the lynch of a player who claimed SK, but then had nacho claim a guilty result on him, was excessive to the point that 2 or 3 of the last 5 (but not the first 4) are mafia?

Yes. I already said this, why are you asking me a second time?

What is significant about the 5th vote that makes it indicative of mafia compared to the 4th vote?

The point is that the back half of that wagon is where the scum lie. My point is that the scum were only too happy to lynch the SK. Even if the SK were actually mafia, then there still were likely multiple scum on the back of that wagon, for bussing town-cred.

Why do you automatically discount the possibility of UKmafia fakeclaiming SK to buy a Day or two? That's a one-way bet for mafia, surely - why do you think it is so unlikely that you jump to "ramifactions of lynching the SK" as if it was a foregone conclusion?

I was reading her as SK before, her play following Nacho's claim and the ensuing posts from her made it obvious to me that she was telling the truth. Nacho is the sort of player who I think is good enough to attempt a town gambit like claiming a guilty without actually being the cop. I've seen players do it before, see Benmage in Vanilla Town in my wiki. Jack's "CC" was absurd on its face. My read of the situation was that UK was telling the truth. Furthermore, lets say I was wrong and UK was actually mafia. WE STILL SHOULDN'T HAVE LYNCHED HER. As long as she lived, we would have controlled the mafia kill, because if they didn't kill who we told UK to, then she gets lynched. So either way we would have gained an effective vig, and the real SK would likely have taken care of her for us eventually. We could have gotten 1 maybe 2 directed shots from her before lynching her. In this setup, once the SK is forced to claim, they become in all essence a vig. So the scum would have had to sweat her kill.

The whole thing is mind numbingly OBVIOUS. I can't believe I have to explain this shit.[/quote]

[LimMePls]

Vote: LMP

[LimMePls]

This game depresses me. GG town.

[LimMePls]

I think this whole game was fubar'd by that investigation on the SK. The mafia doesn't stand a chance against cop+doc without the extra kill a night that the SK gives.

I feel pretty retarded after all the gloating I did in the mafia QT. I really thought we had the doc and were gonna GG this game.

[LimMePls]

I'm pretty sure you've already mastered that lesson Glork.