Mini 1095 - Fast Food Mafia - Game Over

[StrangerCoug]

I hereby understand and /confirm my role.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: jasonT1981 for being the only player with numbers in his name.

[StrangerCoug]

Claim: Miller

Let the fireworks begin.

Claiming right off the bat is correct miller play, but from our perspective it's a double-edged sword—is this really a miller or scum that wants to scare off the cop? I say we watch closely to make sure no shenanigans happen, but we are not to auto-assume scum.

[StrangerCoug]

Strangercougs post read funny to me as well, but not for coaching. His post doesn't take any clear positions against anything, yet warns us of...What exactly? Avoiding shenanigans? What shenanigans are we going to avoid exactly? At the same time he says we should leave me alone right now he poisons my well like woah.

I did not say to leave you alone. In fact, I said the exact opposite—to pay close attention to you. Miller is an easy scum claim (I believe scum's claimed miller off the bat in Go Play in Traffic!). But since correct miller play is to claim it immediately, in terms of alignment tells it's ultimately null. Based on how you're handling the situation, I think you're good other than that.

As far as what else happened last night... EtherealCookie, EtherealCookie, EtherealCookie. When Thestatusquo claimed, he said "Let the fireworks begin," I interpreted as an open invitation to discuss it. I may have answered the question for him, but I would have answered vaguely (I effectively said "he claimed miller because strategy says so"). This may or may not be why he went into further detail himself; I cannot read Thestatusquo's mind.

You can't possibly think there's no evidence to suggest a connection between you and Strangercoug. He clearly coached you on how to respond.

No I did not. In fact, note the wording—Thestatusquo knows what he is and the interpretation that I was talking specifically to him is absurd. I can see how my saying don't auto-assume Thestatusquo is scum

MIGHT

link me to him, but it's a bit of a stretch.

So it's either a bad move, and StrangerCoug seems like an experienced player, or it's scum trying to coach his scumbuddy.

So either Thestatusquo is a village idiot or we're both scum, neither of which make much sense.

I don't see how you've interperted this as "misguided musings" and "an inability to read." I think you're simply worried that there's an actual link between you and Coug, and so you've tried to bus him, and now you're attempting to ridicule my argument as to make it appear as if it holds no weight.

Did anybody other than me so much as play with the possibility of Thestatusquo-scum before the wagon on me started?

Furthermore, you state that you were responding to peanuts post. You realize that is a completely subjective thing? You never actually specify who you've directed your comment to. He mentions coaching, but I imply the same thing by responding I did not like how he jumped to answer your question. You are unclear with your response and you assume that the reader somehow understands your complete train of thought.

You made your coaching comment after Thestatusquo voted me. For him to be responsing to you makes no sense.

As for your defensiveness, it certainly is a scumtell when you simply respond with "can you read" instead of an actual response that addresses the points made against you.

I'd like to know who wrote your book of tells, because that person is a crappy author. If you're clearly ignoring important points, then I don't see why the implication of the question is invalid.

UNVOTE: jasonT1981
VOTE: EtherealCookie

[StrangerCoug]

I'll post more when I'm not at school, but I'd like to point out that StrangerCoug has provided absolutely no rationale for his vote against me. It seems to be more hopping on an opportunity more than anything. When I'm back, I'll respond to your points. However, I've already addressed nearly everything you've mentioned.

Feel free to comment the moment you're available to do so, but "I addressed it already" does not make the problem go away.

[StrangerCoug]

Antsy, TSQ, aren't you? The game just started yesterday!

[StrangerCoug]

Did anybody other than me so much as play with the possibility of Thestatusquo-scum before the wagon on me started?

I don't understand this question, to be honest.

Let's try rewording then: Was I the only person to suggest Thestatusquo could be scum before I started getting votes?

I'd like to know who wrote your book of tells, because that person is a crappy author. If you're clearly ignoring important points, then I don't see why the implication of the question is invalid.

Dodging the question isn't scummy? Town should be able to answer it easily.

Who dodged what question?

UNVOTE: jasonT1981
VOTE: EtherealCookie

Reasoning behind this? None has been provided. That just makes you seem more scummy to me.

I thought the reasons were pretty much covered in my post. Is something else unclear?

@TSQ, what is your fast food joint, quit stalling.

HoS: CooLDoG.

Scum does not need to know what joint Thestatusquo is at this point.

Clarify on this. Are we not supposed to discuss this? Because I don't really understand the relevance of food chain establishments. I mean, I can see some connections, like

obviously a McDonalds would be a power role

, but beyond that... What reason would you have to withhold this information?

I'm having trouble deciding whether the term I'm looking for is mod-WIFOM or role-fishing, but neither makes the purple look good.

Now, StrangerCoug votes for me in his ISO #3. However, there is something missing; there is no actual reason he is voting for me. He's simply responded to all my points about him being scum and linked with TSQ.

Read the post again. Yes, it's me defending, but I counterattack you as well.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm having trouble deciding whether the term I'm looking for is mod-WIFOM or role-fishing, but neither makes the purple look good.

This is ridiculous. You are reading into what is simply an example inferred from common sense that the biggest fast food chain would definitely hold some sort of weight.

Thanks for helping me come up with what I'm looking for—mod-WIFOM. I've modded many theme games, and several were designed to mess a little with player assumptions about roles. The relevant example that comes to mind is Wheel of Fortune Mafia—for example, the $5,000 space that everybody likes was a vanilla townie that game.

Read the post again. Yes, it's me defending, but I counterattack you as well.

Feel free to comment the moment you're available to do so, but "I addressed it already" does not make the problem go away.

Really? I bother to respond to things that I have mentioned earlier on and yet you don't have the patience to go and point out where you

clearly point out I am acting scummy and lay out your case against me?

For your information, I have read your ISO 3, and I still don't see that.

Sigh... I might as well summarize so I can stop feeling like I'm talking to a brick wall.

Most of what I don't like about you stems from your case against Thestatusquo. You claim that he's worried about connecting himself to me after I supposedly coached him, so he's backing off from me. That's hard to see. In fact, I'm basically shooting your case that he's being defensive to hell.

What's a counterattack?

Counterattacking is responding to someone attacking you by attacking him or her.

Your book of tells is bad isn't justification for voting for me, if that's your reasoning.

The "book of tells" comment was meant to be taken in context with your defense against Thestatusquo, where you imply that you don't think the inability to read is a tell.

@SC, yes but the scum already know if he is town or scum, it can only help the town. If he's lying scum then he knows he’s scum, if he’s evasive deliberately not answer easy questions town, then the scum already know that.

Ah. That makes perfect sense then.

Un-HoS

.

[StrangerCoug]

Thestatusquo is starting to bug me now.

[StrangerCoug]

I agree that flavor should be kept hidden from the scum, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how only going so far as nameclaiming helps scum. If scum have fakeclaims, then nameclaiming doesn't help them any, and even if they don't then I don't see how nameclaiming narrows the fakeclaim pool that much. If the mod was able to come up with at least eight, then there's probably still plenty of wiggle room. I can think of four burger joints, three or four pizza parlors, and a couple sandwich shops, and if the mod lives where some of the chains I have in mind don't exist that widens the pool even more.

[StrangerCoug]

@ StrangerCoug
Explain yourself. "Your Bugging Me" seems odd and scummy coming out of the blue like that, justification would be nice.

Asked and answered. See post #114.

[StrangerCoug]

My non-committal stance is also good to ensure I don't end up vote-hopping like a deranged frog. I have a few suspicions at the moment and I am unsure who I should push for.

We're not here to rush you, but don't take longer than reasonable to decide on something.

I'm having trouble understanding StrangerCougs post... from what I can figure he is supporting CooLDoG's pursuit of getting TSQs establishment out of him...

This is correct.

[StrangerCoug]

@CooLDoG and StrangerCoug:
Why push for TSQ to reveal his establishment so hard? CooLDoG states he has a power-role closely associated with his chain (My knowledge of American food chains in quite lacking) but as I have said before unless he is a Food Standards Agency equivalent I really can't see any way in which your joint could match your abilities unless its one which has been in the US news recently, which would put foreigners (like myself) at a possible disadvantage.

We can use the nameclaim to see if it makes sense with the miller claim. If it's a standard everyday chain, for example, then that would mean both the nameclaim and the roleclaim are likely to be false. If the nameclaim stands out, then Thestatusquo is probably town (if he's not, he's very crazy scum).

@AntB, I'm KFC, That’s Kentucky (shamefully my home state) Fried Chicken. They are famous for their
"Double Down" which has slabs of greasy chicken instead of bread. Totally unhealthy. Actually considered to be one of the most unhealthy places to eat in the U.S.A. Do a quick wikipedia and you will see what I mean. It does match my role pretty well.

Why did you claim name and flavor?

All right. I'm not in support of TSQ revealing his establishment. As TSQ brought up, we don't know what scum can do with that sort of information, and we don't even know if CoolDog is pro-town power role or pro-scum. Even if CoolDog is town, everyone else can read this chat, and if the scum somehow have some special benefit from knowing what TSQ's establishment is, then we've potentially helped out scum, assuming TSQ himself isn't scum. Does it seem like a good trade off? Absolutely not. The odds are that scum'll benefit more than town'll benefit. So, CoolDog comes off scummy for pushing TSQ to reveal his establishment. Also, doesn't CoolDog realize he'll be killed for claiming a power role, which he has basically done by saying his role is connected to knowing what establishment the other person is? Of course he does. I don't see why he wouldn't. He shouldn't have even hinted at his power role if he was town. He claims he understands he is going to die, but would rather reveal one scum player and die than not do so at all. What possible suspicions does he even have of TSQ to think he's scummy to undertake such a risk? After all, he said he can't see scum claiming Miller so early on. Then he hints at a doctor saving him. Guess what? Now he's built up a backup for when he survives. "The doc saved me." So, the only explanation that he is scum; he has nothing to worry about. I think it's pretty clear right about now.

Unvote

Vote: CoolDog

My suspicions of AntB still exist, but they are nowhere as strong as they are about CoolDog.

UNVOTE: EtherealCookie

I want to see how CooLDoG responds to my question before moving on to him.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not convinced that CooLDoG is scum and the reason I unvoted EtherealCookie is because I think he's acting pretty pro-town now. That, to me, leaves it as a tossup between AntB's indecisiveness and Thestatusquo's reluctance to nameclaim after claiming miller right now, but since Thestatusquo has said he's not going to nameclaim unpressured, I think I'll get what I want if I VOTE: Thestatusquo.

[StrangerCoug]

Look at my play, ignore my claim for a second. Do you think I'm scum. If so, why? If not, why are you voting me?

If we factor out the claim, then you're not too terrible. The major problem I have is your voting me for making a contradictory statement when I didn't make one of those statements, and that's not something I heavily pushed, leaving my vote with little basis. (I also disagree that CooLDoG is obvtown, but rather neutral, but that's not important.) However, you make a very big fuss about not nameclaiming, which is my problem. Sorry, but if the claim is suspicious, then voting you for it

IS

an answer.

[StrangerCoug]

Unvote, Vote: peanutman

Why?

(Happy birthday, by the way.)

[StrangerCoug]

The more I think about CooLDoG now, the less I like him.

[StrangerCoug]

I still don't understand CooLDoG's flavor push. Why should TSQ give scum ideas on how to write fakeclaims?

UNVOTE: Thestatusquo, whose chain I've stopped caring about
VOTE: CooLDoG

[StrangerCoug]

I still don't understand CooLDoG's flavor push. Why should TSQ give scum ideas on how to write fakeclaims?

This makes it sound as though you

know

that scum don't have fakeclaims. I would have expected they'd have had a list of unused chains. It's what I would have done as mod.

HoS: SC

Anybody can theoretically say "I am chain X." But it takes brainpower to fake "I am chain X, which has such and such a reputation, does such and such stuff, or whatever I figure the mod would have written up." I am referring to this brainpower, of which it takes less if scum has a model.

[StrangerCoug]

Strangercoug 39: right. Claminig miller in closed setups is standard miller strategy. What is possibly wrong with that?

I've also seen scum fakeclaim miller on Day 1 (I'd have to check if it was his first post—it's a completed game, fortunately).

[StrangerCoug]

SC needs to post content.

What do you want my opinion on?

I need some body to get a case written up so i can answer to everything. I'm at l-2, and that shocks me. (not having a formal case, that is)

I'll let everyone else speak for themselves, but I really don't like how hard you were pushing to get Thestatusquo to claim flavor. That's helping scum if they don't have fake role PMs and why I stopped giving a damn what chain he is.

[StrangerCoug]

Who said I was talking about quoting role PMs, for one thing? We've both been on here long enough to know that we're supposed to be paraphrasing flavor, not quoting it off the bat. Yes, it's likely to be a simple "chain X, role Y" because it's the easiest to do and the most common, but I've seen legal rewords in several games.

If you're telling the truth about your role, you've done it.

For another thing, scum flavor is irrelevant for the purposes of my argument as claiming it is suicide. It at least sticks out like a sore thumb and often matches the mod-provided flavor text describing the scum. Suppose, for a moment, that this were a "man vs. machine" game where humans are town and robots are scum. Don't you think a flavor claim that talks a lot about technological superiority would be suspicious in such a game?

[StrangerCoug]

@SC, in some games I have played you CAN quote a role pm... (I think it was hospital madness mafia, not sure)

You already implied you knew of such games by saying that in

MOST

games, you can't quote a role PM.

@SC, but you still fail to address the two people who would have died (d-1/n-1). And you have not answered to my argument.

I did not address the two people that would have died because I saw the flips as a separate situation entirely.

My flavor is a simple, KFC. That's it. A scum will come out and say:

Claim: Burger King, VT

. That's it. I think it is more of an issue with not claiming flavor then claim flavor. Additionally, all one has to do to get flavor claims is to Google "list of fast food chains" its not that difficult.

We have conflicting definitions of what flavor is then. You clearly consider "chain X, role Y" to constitute flavor, while I consider flavor to be the "fluff" that's used to give the role sense.

Here's a role I actually gave out in Wheel of Fortune Mafia:

dramonic,

you are the

contestant backdrop, a vanilla townie

.

Nice view out there, but they're going to set up a gallows pole in a minute, just like the show's predecessor.

You have no gun, no badge, no first-aid kit, no magic thingamajiggers, absolutely nothing special except for three things—The audience cheering you on, your brain, and voting abilities. But those three things are all you need to spin your way to victory!

You win when all threats on Stage 11 have been eliminated from the game.

Please PM me back acknowledging that you understand and confirm your role. The thread is here and you're in a day start.

The blue is what you've demonstrated you think is flavor; the purple is what I consider to be flavor.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC, that still doesn't show how it would help scum to fabricate a claim flavor.

What is not clear? We're clearly at an impasse and I don't know where to start the explanation.

[StrangerCoug]

Battousai makes a good point about SC, which deserves an answer. SC, please, explain what happened between your #89 and your #205.

I just wanted the chain and role from Thestatusquo, which would be the blue from the yanked-from-a-completed-game role PM I put. I interpreted CooLDoG, on the other hand, as pushing for him to claim the flavor I put in purple in the sample as well; therefore, I interpreted CooLDoG as trying to get TSQ to help scum think of what to write when they fakeclaim. They are not likely to both be scum and what chain Thestatusquo is is not important to me at this point if I think he is town.

[StrangerCoug]

Oh, you mean like how the sample vanilla town role pm can help scum fake claim as well, or even the fake claim that were given to them by the mod could help them fake claim? You are wrong on that front. Now, is it scummy...

I disagree quite a bit here that it's wrong, but I'm going to agree to disagree.

This implies you haven't read the rules (scummy, scum do not read the roles as close as town).

This may be true, but the conclusion is flawed—I generally skim the rules regardless of alignment. The only two things I generally bother checking anymore are the mod color and if "bah" posts are allowed. If it's an unusual game, though, then I may be motivated to look at them more closely, but as far as I am aware, if this game had no theme it would pass as a mini normal.

Now, if you didn't know scum received fake claims or there was a vt role posted by the mod... Would a townie of decent skill want Ythan to nameclaim (enough to pressure vote), but be adamant against a flavor claim and vote whoever is pushing it? Maybe, but I think it is still a bit opportunistic (which would imply CoolDog is town and SC is scum).

One, since when was Ythan in this game?

Two, if the scum has a full-fledged fake role PM, then they're going to use that. It's common for scum to be given fakeclaims, but as I do not know to what if any extent they have them I'm mostly arbitrarily assuming my usual mod practice (just a safe nameclaim—scum's on their own with role and flavor). As I previously commented, if scum have no fakeclaims then it's not that hard to come up with a fake since there are tons of fast food places—luck just factors into believability now.

[StrangerCoug]

These are quick reads I have of everybody.

Chronopie - Run that name by me again?
Battousai replaced Confidanon replaced jasonT1981 - Misguided, but I feel he's town.
lewarcher82 replaced SnakePlissken - Town
Magua replaced Channeldelibird replaced curseddiplomat - Have any of these people posted content? Neutral.
InHimshallibe replaced GhostWriter - Town
CooLDoG - Probably scum, but not with Thestatusquo.
peanutman - Town
AntB - I don't quite understand what the case on him is; could I have a quick summary?
rajrhcpfreak - Run that name by me again?
Thestatusquo - Town
EtherealCookie - Neutral, I haven't seen him lately.

[StrangerCoug]

The quick summary of AntB's case is that he is heavily fence-sitting. From the beginning of the game, he has been leaning side to side, saying he's not exactly sure who he's going to vote for yet, but stating that he feels the person is a little scummy and more information could persuade him to vote for the player. He's been making excuses to jump onto any bandwagon that presents itself, but at the same time he says these players are kinda town or that he can't truly understand the wagons on them? It's contradictory.

Gotcha.

[StrangerCoug]

I think I'm on the same page as Battousai now.

[StrangerCoug]

@TSQ, stop lurking. I hope some of you have noticed that he has dropped off the radar as of late (unless he posted v/la, in which case it is my bad)

I don't remember him posting after shifting my attention to you. Hmm...

[StrangerCoug]

SC- Same page as me? Same page as me saying you are scum or what?

No, I'm simply stating that I know where you're coming from when you're talking about flavor.

SC 306- Not liking this post. Your "Hmm..." makes it looks like you are looking into it, or you find it interesting (especially when you add in the fact he hasn't responded AFTER you shifted attention away from him. It seems like you are waiting for someone to jump on him for it, but not wanting to be the first.

Would it be better if I rushed every decision I made and try to throw the game? I didn't think so either. TSQ is simply not the focus of my attention right now.

AntB stands out now, but I'm uncomfortable with the way his wagon is going. I'm happier with my CooLDoG vote and believe inHimshallibe is his buddy based on reactions (especially how inHim's response to AntB's calling him and CooLDoG scumbuddies screams OMGUS to me).

[StrangerCoug]

Looking at your posts in ISO does not reveal a clear case on AntB, inHimshallibe.

[StrangerCoug]

You had multiple ways of handling that post. 1) Put it in your personal notes for later and not speak of it until your focus was on TSQ, 2) Went back and looked and saw when TSQ stopped participating, confirmed your thoughts and said something like, TSQ's last post was ... which is right when attention went away from him. I find this pretty scummy, but until he starts posting again it's null (as he could just be flaking, not actively lurking). 3) It appears like he hasn't posted since attention went away from him, I find it suspicious but my attention is on xxx right now and I can't focus on someone who isn't active right now to defend himself.

OK, makes sense. I'll remember for next time.

[StrangerCoug]

Getting a bit ambitious, eh, Battousai? All I'm saying is that Thestatusquo's lurking and its timing are noted.

[StrangerCoug]

Yeah. You'll sometimes see Thestatusquo referred to by his real name.

[StrangerCoug]

UNVOTE: CooLDoG, which I thought I did already
VOTE: Chronopie

I'm not self-voting and my suspicion of inHimshallibe doesn't make the AntB wagon look good, so let's kill the person who has done very little in the way of scumhunting. If I can get enough people willing to vote IHSIB, then yay, but this is the best place for my vote to be right now.

[StrangerCoug]

I have read SC's iso, and I found this post interesting:

These are quick reads I have of everybody.

Chronopie - Run that name by me again?
Battousai replaced Confidanon replaced jasonT1981 - Misguided, but I feel he's town.
lewarcher82 replaced SnakePlissken - Town
Magua replaced Channeldelibird replaced curseddiplomat - Have any of these people posted content? Neutral.
InHimshallibe replaced GhostWriter - Town
CooLDoG - Probably scum, but not with Thestatusquo.
peanutman - Town
AntB - I don't quite understand what the case on him is; could I have a quick summary?
rajrhcpfreak - Run that name by me again?
Thestatusquo - Town
EtherealCookie - Neutral, I haven't seen him lately.

Can you please explain why I, InHim, peanut and TSQ are town?

inHimshallibe I don't think is town anymore and Thestatusquo can probably go either way now. As for you and peanutman, neither of you have done anything that stands out to me as scummy.

[StrangerCoug]

That's fine if you think that.

[StrangerCoug]

That's not how I see that post; from what I understand, peanutman is questioning why CooLDoG soft-claimed. Although the miller claim gets mentioned, I don't see where peanutman is doubting that Thestatusquo is a miller.

[StrangerCoug]

(Is it common practice to move a replacement player's vote to the end of the line? I see the logic in it, I think).

By default, no, but players commonly unvote when replacing in while they catch up with reading.

[StrangerCoug]

Thestatusquo was being replaced? I must have missed/forgotten that.

Ah, well, yabbaguy's experienced too.

[StrangerCoug]

I didn't think AntB could be faulted that much for what he was thinking when he was voting, but a competing wagon for the sake of a competing wagon, especially this late in the day, doesn't seem like the most pro-town thing to start. I think the count's wrong, but I really don't care if this is the hammer.

UNVOTE: Chronopie. We'll take care of him later.
VOTE: AntB

I still think inHimshallibe's case on AntB is crap if even existent, but that was already a "for later" thing. I think I've got everybody.

Also,

mod, who miscounted the votes? yabbaguy or you?

[StrangerCoug]

I just realized that if that is the hammer, I just killed AntB without letting him answer lewarcher82's question. Ah, well, I'll have to grin and bear it.

[StrangerCoug]

Hey, I gave my reasons for getting on the Chronopie wagon. AntB made it look like he was too—in fact, with some of the same reasoning I used—but now I think he's just lumping on to get the day over with.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm Vannila Town under the Quiznos banner. All I have on chronopie is he's a competing wagon and he's a lurker.

Fail. Put more effort than that in your claim and cases.

Just double checked my Role PM... Del Taco *facepalm* Still VT anyway. Must've seen the first page PM too many times...

Fail. You should be double-checking your role PM

BEFORE

claiming anything. Now you're caught in a lie. Die, scum.

[StrangerCoug]

Very well, then.

VOTE: Purple Orange

[StrangerCoug]

how about this?
1) he was alternative bw to the one on Ant on d1,
2) he was convinced Chrono was scum til the end of d1, even when he switched to Ant.
3) still, it only took him less than one minute to believe Chrono's claim, Chrono's report and to vote PO.

I smell a bus

vote: SC

Faking a tracker result and trying to get your supposed target killed with it is a very risky gambit. If I can confirm two people at once, then I am going to do it.

[StrangerCoug]

Damn it. Purple Orange and I going so quickly pretty much killed it for us.

Good job, town.