Mini 1091 Mafia Mania -- Game Over

[AntB]

Confirm in, role recieved.

[AntB]

VOTE: Mr Wright

Just what are you insinuating?

[AntB]

@Hiraki
How can you have possible Town-reads this early in the game? By the time of your post there was 6 posts and only 1 serious vote. This could be me being a VI but I can't see how that's possible.
Also stating that you agree with the case against moose but not voting yourself seems weird to me.

@boberz
One-man-bandwagon coming through!!
Seriously though, you seem WAAAY to keen to get this wagon going against Moose.

@Moose
Why give up so easily? Your not even at 50% lynch and you seem to be crumbling under pressure...

UNVOTE: Mr Wright seeing as it was the the realtivly short RVS stage.
My biggest suspicion at the moment is

FoS: Hiraki

as having town-tells in 6 posts seems like a quick/early cover up to me.

[AntB]

@Lord Chronos
Didn't deny that, I quite like early wagons, i was just highlighting boberz seems over keen to get this one going

VOTE: moose200x
Rage is not good. Its not hard to perform a scum hunt, and the only reason I can think of you attempting to not bother is that you yourself are scum.

[AntB]

VOTE: moose200x
Rage is not good. Its not hard to perform a scum hunt, and the only reason I can think of you attempting to not bother is that you yourself are scum.

Is that really the only reason you can think of?

@Moose
Why give up so easily? Your not even at 50% lynch and you seem to be crumbling under pressure...

I AM NOT CRUMBLING, I AM NOT GIVING UP THIS IS HOW I MOTHERFUCKING PLAY.

A simple "this is how I play" would have been adequate, instead he takes an over-defensive stance using all caps and using offensive language, this shows further crumbling under pressure IMO and shows me either this player is scum or a liability which could potentially work in the scums favour; either that or we have a clever Jester.
He has made no attempt to scumhunt and as others have said, seems to be focused on self-preservation. A defence would be nice instead of what I can only call random BS.

I now provide for your viewing pleasure my personal breakdown and views on moose200x's in-game posts:

ISO 2: Why pressure me? Am I too pretty for you.

... wow...

ISO 4: Damn boy, you're talking pretty fucking big so early in the game.[/b]
More foul language and not much else.

ISO 5: I MAKE SCUMMY POSTS all game, get used to it

[sarcasm]What an amazing defence, you can't be scum at all![/sarcasm]

ISO 6: Hmmmm I wonder what I do now, seems like half of you are ready to lynch me I said I want to improve my game. Makes no sense to me.

Again, amazing defence...

ISO 8: then why is bob giving me a hard time

Pressure to see if you crack? scum hunting?

ISO 11: [@boberz] you flip flop alot

Not really, IMO hes been consistent. But we have an "Attack" if you could call it that...

ISO 12: I AM NOT CRUMBLING, I AM NOT GIVING UP THIS IS HOW I MOTHERFUCKING PLAY

See above

ISO 13 & 14: STFU/Bolded post

I lold. This is actively avoiding doing anything to help the town.

ISO 15: How can I find scum when there is no content besides me defending myself or being attacked

I lold again. Either he cba to read because he knows who scum are or is genuinely a bad player making him a greater liability.

@Moose
Perhaps now we'll get some something other than BS out of you..?

[AntB]

@Moose are you actually going to add something other than steaming piles of BS to this game?

[AntB]

@Ant_to_the_Max
My bad. Either way my justification is there

@Moose
boberz hasn't stood out to me as much as you have. I shall review his posts shortly. If you don't want to be lynched then defend yourself.

@hiraki
I didn't miss mooses sarcasm, I just found it an odd reaction to a serious allegation.
I never said anger and foul language was a scumtell, the fact he took that reaction to a simple comment he could have brushed off is; also, "constant repetition" is twice.

The posts I have ignored bare little relevance.
Post #1 was pre-game and for my purposes anything outside the game is irrelevant. If other want to bring it up and coerce a reaction they are by all means welcome to bring it and I will gauge their reactions. It is also not my basis for a lynch case. You state yourself Meta is not a good basis for a read.
Post #7 speaks for itself.
Post #10 Moose also states there is no content to judge on shortly after.
Post #11 I still believe boberz has been consistent. However I will review that shortly.
Posts#13 and #14 Are funny, but to me he is intentionally avoiding being active. What's wrong with giving a clue as to what's going on inside his mind?

I am still curious as to how you can have reads within so few posts so near the start of the game, yet you won't share your reasoning, perhaps you have something to hide?

Moose would need to call it a mislynch if he knew he was town, no?

Amazing defence, I'm blinded.

[AntB]

Posting this straight from reading boberz posts in isolation.

He has not flip-floped, he change his vote once from one suspicious person to another. He's made attempts to defend and justify himself and he asked questions. Which is a lot more than moose has done.

[AntB]

@MrWright
[quote="AntB"A simple "this is how I play" would have been adequate, instead he takes an over-defensive stance using all caps and using offensive language, this shows further crumbling under pressure IMO and shows me either this player is scum or a liability which could potentially work in the scums favour; either that or we have a clever Jester.
He has made no attempt to scumhunt and as others have said, seems to be focused on self-preservation. A defence would be nice instead of what I can only call random BS.[/quote]
the ISO read after that was to reinforce the BS claim if anything.

@Hiraki

MrWright, at this point, just voted him. I really can't see Scum making such an odd move. So he gets Town Points.

Actually MrWright voted for Ant_to_the_Max...

[AntB]

EBWODP so people dont get lost in the bad tagging
@MrWright

A simple "this is how I play" would have been adequate, instead he takes an over-defensive stance using all caps and using offensive language, this shows further crumbling under pressure IMO and shows me either this player is scum or a liability which could potentially work in the scums favour; either that or we have a clever Jester.
He has made no attempt to scumhunt and as others have said, seems to be focused on self-preservation. A defence would be nice instead of what I can only call random BS.

the ISO read after that was to reinforce the BS claim if anything.

@Hiraki

MrWright, at this point, just voted him. I really can't see Scum making such an odd move. So he gets Town Points.

Actually MrWright voted for Ant_to_the_Max...[/quote]

[AntB]

I'm interested in peoples reads on Moose200x.
He's made no pro-town posts, hes made an accusation saying basically trying to look protown means your scum and roleclaimed scum, do you think its a joke or genuine or are you not sure about it?

[AntB]

Having town-reads so early on set alarm bells ringing straight away, the fact he's only just elaborated on them and with them being so MINOR and even WRONG makes me think there's something else going on. He dissects my attack on moose while himself maintaining a vote for him. There is an air of scum but nothing to cause concern as of yet.

[AntB]

@Lazerus
Something so minor hidden for so long... Doesn't that seem fishy? And [sarcasm]I have a scum-read on myself[/sarcasm]. Try reading. You'd find out that Hiraki had a town-read on me for a potential OMGUS vote against Mr Wright, saying I returned the vote when in fact Mr Wright voted for Ant_to_the_Max meaning his town-read on me was misfounded. This is in no way a confession of scumminess. I'm just saying to have 2 town reads which are so incredibly minor and essentially wrong and to hide them for so long after several other facts have come to light makes me think there's something else going on. An early and badly placed scum-cover. My full basis for my vote agaisnt moose is in #75 and hirakis dissection is in the bottom of #89.

He seems to think that the post is my scumtells against moose, when it is in fact mostly the BS moose has splurted at us. It also seems to me to be slightly defensive against moose which to me is slightly weird as Kiraki is currently voting for moose and has been for longer than myself IIRC. If anyone wants an official definition of my position towards Kiraki it would be FoMS.

As Moose is at L-3 I would suggest two more people move to lynch to put moose at L-1. I wish to see mooses reaction to being on the executioners block.

[AntB]

Moose cracked at L-3 or 4, I want to see how bad he cracks at L-1. If it will help any I will drop my vote as soon as I get a reaction (regardless of my stance) to prevent any accidental hammering. Theres 17 days until the deadline, we could gauge several people in this time if people are active enough.

No matter what happens, I believe we'll all get something out of this.

Also, you need to clarify which Ant your referring to... Earlier you put

After I looked at his past games, I don't think he is scum.

This is reffering to moose. Why is this so, surely at most you know he is capable of doing this as town. Have you seen him failing to do similar things as scum?
(Who else has played with moose? I have.)

Which is obviously aimed at AttM and then

Ant is getting worse by thesecond. moose at l1, no thanks.

Which I would assume is aimed at me.

[AntB]

@Lazarus

The initial signs of cracking to me are "Shall I roleclaim and get it over with?" at around L-3/4 then respond to me passing comment with what I can only call aggression by saying "THIS IS HOW I MOTHERF**KING PLAY". If this is how he responds when not in any particular danger I want to see his reaction and "bully" him into making posts what will actually contribute to the town. As far as I'm concerned he is actively lurking and despite several requests for information from him he has only provided BS. If this is how he plays I wonder how many games he's actually seen the end of.

AttM isn't as active as I would like him to be, otherwise so far in the 6 in game posts (less than 1 per page) he has been consistent and gathered an shared information.

Moose has made 24 in game posts and shared practically nothing.

@Beefster
Reeeeally? you haven't read pages 2 and 3 which is around 50 posts total you've missed out of 135 in-game posts. Over a third of the thread so far!

[AntB]

I am not good at explaining myself. So let me take this step by step why I get mad why I am tunneled d1 every game.

1. Every game I get close to being lynched day 1.
2. Early in games I do not try to find scum teams. I try more to pick up bad vibes, intentions, coaching, leading and such.
3. I can never pick up any tells from people when they are screaming "lynch moose" since town and scum alike always wanna hang me.
4. So I get frustrated when people say "hey scum hunt then" and I can't explain why I cannot scum hunt since doing so makes me seem scummy!


So, I hope that makes sense to you. I will say this as far as who I think is scum. When I was being attacked we had a new post every hour. Once my wagon kinda died and I stopped posting, everyone else stopped posting. I am not sure why that is, but I will remember to review that come d2-3 and I bet we can put some pieces together.

Sounds good to me, but I don't like meta; even if I did use meta, you still haven't made any prods or pokes to anyone just yet, so how can you pick up bad vibes unless you just lurk? You were active but doing very little... wouldn't it be better to lurk and float up every now and again with a question or comment? Even passing the occasional comment on events so far would be better than your current play. People here have made less posts than you and look a hell of a lot less scum like. Even defending yourself earlier would have been a good idea.

For now I'll take what youve said into account and UNVOTE: moose200x.

[AntB]

@LC
Because someone who plays THAT badly requires special consideration. I don't like meta and avoid using it, it creates a kind of gamblers logic, however, a few people have said moose is a shocking player which doesn't appear scummy to me. IIRC 3 players have come forward (apart from moose) to defend his playstyle, in a game with 12 starters I wouldn't expect more than 3 mafia, so unless there's 4 four mafia and the people who have defended him are also terrible at covering their tracks I am going to take what has been said on board and adjust to the fact he's a liability and keep an eye on him. I do expect him to pick his arse up off the floor and to start performing some investigation and start helping the town.

[AntB]

@AntB

Your post basically just said: "I don't like the reason behind your argument not to lynch you, moose, but I will go ahead and unvote you anyway. Your play is bad and scummy."

Why unvote him if you don't agree with meta and find his play bad and scummy, especially since you don't seem to have another more pressing suspect.

QFT.

Unrelated:

It displeases me that Moos' wagon is dead. But, fine.

UNVOTE: Moos200x

You have less reason than me to unvote.

Lateralus22++; (Finally noticed your name isn't lazerus lol)
Beefster++;

[AntB]

Habits ^^;

In most programming language and scripts its "increment by 1", which got twisted to mean +1 which is basically an agreement with what your saying.

[AntB]

I agree with Dekes on the Beefster wagon. Also I'm not intending for moose to be around at LYLO. I've stated he is a liability and as such should be kept a close eye and removed as soon as is required OR as soon as a sufficient case other than OMGUSGTFO is made; which ever is sooner.

[AntB]

Still nothing constructive moose, you better pick it up and quickly. I will be on your back until you do.

[AntB]

@Moose
So you have time to start an attack on substrike but not get anywhere and a half-arsed attack on me?

ISO#3 - He honestly did seem over keen to get the wagon going. I am actually defending you a bit there.

ISO#5 - How many games do you see with a jester? really? Let alone a smart one? Makes perfect sense if you read it properly instead of skimming, which I assume you've done here. Lets put it back in full context.

A simple "this is how I play" would have been adequate, instead he takes an over-defensive stance using all caps and using offensive language, this shows further crumbling under pressure IMO and shows me either

this player is scum or a liability which could potentially work in the scums favour; either that or we have a clever Jester.

He has made no attempt to scumhunt and as others have said, seems to be focused on self-preservation. A defence would be nice instead of what I can only call random BS.

ISO#9&10 - are the same post, 9 has bad tagging so I simply copied the post with the correct tagging. Nothing added, nothing removed.

ISO#14 - pulls a blank? now THAT is interesting! Considering I'm accepting your playstyle and even coaching!

ISO#16 - I'm not the only one...

ISO#17 - I can see how that can be seen as coaching in retrospect, it was intended as a comment to provoke a reaction.

ISO#19 -

Likes Beef's bandwagon- Wants me dead , town or not, before LYLO.

Correct. Your a liability and come LYLO I don't believe you would be any kind of help.

ISO#20 - Well why not? Scumhunting is good.

For those who are thinking they don't line up, add one to the ISO# here.

---

tried to push attention away from boberz the entire game

Really? lets see... I've made a total of 21 posts, one is a confirmation post so it will be discounted, there's 20 in-game posts from me....
Boberz is directly mentioned by me in 3 of my posts. he is joint 4th on my "most commented on" list.


Considering all this moose, I'm going to VOTE: Moose200x again and this time its staying all the way through. Your attacking perfectly valid points IMO and twisting one of them to your own needs. Finally took my advice to scum-hunt then? Looking for a weak player? you should've aimed for the beefster wagon. At least you would have been able to pull some decent justification.

[AntB]

Mooses posts #195, #196 and #197.
If thats how he plays then holy shit sauce this guy needs to be started again at the beginning. Also claiming a power role, however loosely on D1 at L-4 is... disgraceful in all honesty.


The vote count in #193 is accurate, except I have since voted for moose.

@Hiraki
In hindsight, saying your voting for moose while attacking me based on my attack was a pointless comment. However I still stand that my attack on moose was and is valid.

[AntB]

@Dekes
I try and avoid tunneling where possible, and I have considered moose as town and given him the benefit of doubt which he quickly blew to bits.

Beefster seems a bit fishy at the moment, nothing viscous enough to warrant my vote (for now), however, I can see what the bandwagon is getting at.
boberz seems to be a little bit of everywhere at the moment, but I have little more than a null on him for now.
Hiraki also seems a bit fishy at the moment, nothing really more than gut though.

[AntB]

Welcome werewolf,

While true you can't be held for Hirakis actions, or even explain them, you can give an opinion on them, and maybe attempt to justify them. Say you were in a different slot to hiraki, what kind of read would you have on him?

PBPA != good, PBPA and an explanation of why your giving it and your conclusion is good.

[AntB]

@Moose
One last chance to do something pro-town. saying your vig and going after boberz needs a serious come-back now.

@Werewolf
In addition to what I've said before, why have you only passed comment on beefster and not anyone else? What's your view on the moose wagon? I want a wider range of opinions from you...

[AntB]

@Dekes
This what you looking for?

[AntB]

It doesn't, he's gotta work for it.

@Lateralus
Sure why not... seeing as were going to need moose alive i'll UNVOTE: moose200x... My opinon on who later...

Fixed quote tag. ~~NS

[AntB]

The point is we lynch and tell moose who to shoot, he fails, he dies. possible D2 quicklynch.

After a skim read I'm now between Beefster and Werewolf. Whichever way the wagon goes.

Werewolf for coming in, failing to answer my post, giving a useless PBPA and general "oh looky at the wagon, *jump/vote*"-iness
Beefster seems to skim posts more than read them, also too lazy to pull out quotes, also a good gut feeling...

[AntB]

Either way, we lynch a secondary suspect, get moose to NK the primary suspect, if that fails, kill moose, if both flip town, kill moose some more... that's how I see it...
I know, fail-logic but hey, we end up killing 2 town and moose isn't scum I'll be very surprised...

[AntB]

@beefster
Usually... when its not excessive. Also, I'm not keeping Moose around for long, I'm going with substrikes plan of using moose to double lynch, pending results, lynch him now or later...

[AntB]

@boberz
If your so set on lynching werewolf why are you so bothered about us letting moose live? also because he's targeting you I would think you would want him out of your way..

@Beefster
He claimed one shot. This is why you read and not skim. Also, the quote was my bad.

[AntB]

VOTE: moose200x

I feel like a yo-yo... this time however its set in stone. 6 days left and we need a lynch.

[AntB]

@Beefster
I wouldn't count on the extension, assuming we are going to get and attempt to slow to game down seems scummy to me.

@All
personally, I'm for Moose or Werewolf mainly, a beefster lynch is viable if it comes to it.

[AntB]

@moose
Never heard of fakeclaim? and why would you claim so easily, without pressure of any sort?

[AntB]

@Beefster
You think i'm scum based on a perceived inconsistency because you read and not skim....

Want to elaborate?

[AntB]

EBWODP:
meh... *beacause you skim and not read

[AntB]

@Beefster
Show me where I actually state in plain english that I buy the Moose Vig Claim. I say that using moose to secure a double lynch is a good idea and if he is as he claims he would be fine, if not he would be quickly outed. I don't want him hanging around by LyLo because so far, he has been of little if any use to town so I believe he would help the mafia win in a LyLo situation.

This wagon you have against me is based on evidene you have altered to your needs, I believe you are scum based on that and your attempts to push it as hard as possible agaisnt me without anything solid are just plain scum.

Moose lynch isn't happening so we will see how that plays out over N1/D2.
UNVOTE: Moose200x
VOTE: Beefster to ensure we have a lynch. Beefster is now at L-2.

[AntB]

Show me where I actually state in plain english that I buy the Moose Vig Claim. I say that using moose to secure a double lynch is a good idea and if he is as he claims he would be fine, if not he would be quickly outed. I don't want him hanging around by LyLo because so far, he has been of little if any use to town so I believe he would help the mafia win in a LyLo situation.

You can't expect a double lynch unless you believe his claim. You can't doubt the claim and believe it at the same time. You're trying to please everyone, but blatantly contradicting yourself in the process. Major scum points.

You never said you believed him in plain English,

but you implied it by other things you said.

I don't need to prove your actions to make my point. Nice panic defense.

In response to my arguments, you turn your vote back on me. OMGUS isn't usually a scumtell, but in this case, I think it is; You seem to be using it as a panic defense.

And the fact that you totally avoided the topic of werewolf really throws up some red flags. Perhaps a werewolf lynch wouldn't be that bad...

unvote

VOTE: AntB
until tonight... Just in case this gains momentum.

I think I've caught scum.

What? Have you actually read what I've put? Let me put it in as low a level as I can...

Vig hits PlayerX, scum hits PlayerY. Moose is proven vigilante and town gets a free lynch. He lives for a bit longer and hopefully recovers himself to be of some use to town.
Scum hits PlayerX, vig fails. We can either use this to an advantage and repeat until obviscum or we assume moose is as full of BS as he has been and lynch him.
Scum hits PlayerY, Vig hits PlayerZ - we kill moose.

Make sense? It was a Trial by Fire if you like. As for panic defence, is that also what you call "OMG I'm being wagoned, I know, I'll attack that guy as he seems more liable to be lynched then me and my scum-buddies?" yea... Also, Implied is nothing. Unless it is actually stated in some form, saying i've implied something is as useless as post FoS All Scum really. You can't base a case on anything implied, you can ask for clarification... but that's it

Wolf has failed to answer one of my questions on at least 2 occasions, but hasn't attacked me in a distraction attempt due to pressure. I will be pushing for your scumbuddies lynch tomorrow.

[AntB]

@boberz
Note the usage of past tense in my post. I read what you said and pretty much agreed.

@Beefster
wow... I'm not even going to waste any more energy responding to you beyond this post.

IF moose is a vig

...
Stop skimming, start reading scum, it might help you.
My case on you is your outright refusal to skim posts and autopilot on what jumps out at you, and also attempting to divert attention from yourself with poorly constructed cases.

@all
Scumteam is Beefster, Werewolf and possibly Moose. If I get NK'd, you know who to kill.

I'm out until D2 starts...

[AntB]

That'd only be my wincon if I am town.

I am speechless. This is twice he has essentially claimed he is scum.

[AntB]

A townie would put something more definitive and wouldn't have put an "if I'm town".
I didn't say it was a direct scum-claim either. I said essentially.

[AntB]

If someone else votes wolf I'll drop the hammer. we have less than 32 hours until night.

[AntB]

I'm going to push for the beefster lynch as hard as I can. BUT if push comes to shove I have a sledge-hammer under the bench....

[AntB]

@Mod
Can I request a prod on Dekes, Ant_to_the_max and substrike?

[AntB]

Doubt we'll get an extension boberz... deadlines are in place to cause this kinda crap... we have about 25 hours left.

[AntB]

so either way, another vote on either wagon and theres a lynch.

@Mod
yay

[AntB]

@moose
wut..?
Surely you are having a laugh. I pushed your case harder than anyone, I would think you'd shoot me over anyone else....

@sub
My thoughts exactly... I would've loved a moose lynch...

[AntB]

@Lateralus
Pretty much... He's aiming for boberz because he doesn't like him, he's aiming for substruck because of an "OMG you aren't dead yet" post, I've done more to potentially upset him then anyone... Just strikes me as odd.

@Moose
Save your shot... trust me. you'll need it later.

[AntB]

There's a case against me? I'll be happy to address any problems you have with me.

[AntB]

Well this is interesting... I was expecting boberz to have been moose'd, not werewolf...


*leaves some chicken for Nobody Special under a time-delay release set for 0001*


P-Edit:
You know there's little more suspicious than "I can explain!" without an actual explaination....

[AntB]

I am an idiot.

QFT...

Paraphrasing is good though, and good effort... however that says to me that your are a sort of jack-of-all-trades role... in that you have multiple abilities....

[AntB]

@moose
give flowers, give flowers, give flowers, give chocolate. Also now I think about it "easy to confuse" also smells of SK

regardless, VOTE: moose200x on policy for bad attiude which can never help town and excessive foul language. I may as well throw in the SK for that bitter edge.

[AntB]

@Mariyta
Mis-rep. I never said policy lynches are good, sometimes they're needed, however.
You seem to have mis-repped a couple of times... I'll double check and present case when I have more time...

[AntB]

@Mariyta
Policy lynches are never good, however, sometimes they are necessary to survival. You pushing me saying policy lynches are good when I have in fact stated the opposite makes you a bit scummy.
Also. are you saying that defending myself is a bad thing?

The scum team guess being 66% town has placed me in shock. However, now I'm thinking Boberz as he was an active pusher of both cases, flip-flopped a bit and has now voted for me because you had a suspicion and nothing more.This also looks like blatant buddying and you seem to be happily going with it.
He has also paired me with pappums rat, another who he has only mentioned ONCE before declaring us as scumteam. This guy is now reeking of scum, and your aroma isn't much more pleasent.

VOTE: Boberz for now however.

[AntB]

@Boberz & Mariyta
I want all your evidence on pappums rat, both of you, and all evidence on me. Boberz more because he voted on Mariyta's call.

@Mariyta
Care to show me how I've over-defended? I answered your questions and presented a counter-case.
You also failed to address my buddying accusation.

[AntB]

Substrike22++;

[AntB]

@Boberz
In brief, blatent buddying with Mariyta, voting for me without reason beyond "Mariyta: Name your target", over-aggressive pushing of two townie cases, unable to keep track of your vote (ISO #91, #93 #95)

[AntB]

While I was guilty on tunnelling on moose, you tunnelled wolf as soon as hiraki was replaced (Easy target? Unable to defend against the hiraki slips due to not being hiraki?) Admittedly he dodged a couple questions but no need to push him that hard. Case on Beefster was valid enough, however. That guy seemed to slip and slip...

I can only find 3 posts which state a "case" on me:

I

vaugely think

I found him slightly scummy during my initial read as well, I too wil reread.

Bolded part makes me O_o considering its following a vote.

[AntB] is scum with pappumsrat. That is my case.

Good case. String me up.

AntB, at one point "performed a scumhunt" and also asked moose to. It makes it sound like he wants to look like he is scumhunting rather than actually doing it.

Perform is not a word anyone else would or has used.

Finally something valid. I was pushing moose to do something beneficial for town and in the process became tunnelled and became a hindrance for the town admittedly.


As for the votes being a joke. Really? Outside RVS your voting for "a joke".
ISO#93 just seems plain odd... but passable I suppose.
ISO#95 however, why would you need to unvote when that was your first vote of D2? Kinda implies autopilot and your not keeping track of your vote (or the game for that matter) very well.

Fixed quote tag. ~~NS

[AntB]

Cocked up quotes again....
@Mod Can you fix please?

[AntB]

@pappums

He is scum with pappumsrat. That is my case.

(It isnt

I will show it to year at a time when it is not new years eve

(no longer))

Highlighted for your (dis-)pleasure... I believe were still waiting for it... I know I can't see it... unless this is meant to be it...

AntB, at one point "performed a scumhunt" and also asked moose to. It makes it sound like he wants to look like he is scumhunting rather than actually doing it.

Which is pretty weak IMO as there's bigger and better cases out there.

[AntB]

@Moose
No I'm not happy. You bit at what I put trying to save your ass.

[AntB]

@moose
I have a perfect GIF for this moment... but people will read too far into it.

but, basically. STFU and

[AntB]

*twitchy mouse*

STFU and either help town, replace out or make a half decent claim what isn't a straight rip of someone's post.

[AntB]

@Mariyta
If I was going to vote you, I would. OMGUS is used too much as an excuse to not defend against a vote "he voted me coz I voted him OMGUS derp". Defence complete. I have more on boberz than I do on you and the buddying becomes more and more blatent in your defence of boberz and attempting to use the above to discard my vote.

[AntB]

@Lateralus
Whose? if your meaning mine, Dekes and Substrike are the only ones I have >50% confidence in.

[AntB]

"Buddying" between myself and Rat.

Me:

I want all your evidence on pappums rat [...]

Rat:

Post #574

==

I ask for evidence against rat, and rat disects boberz case against me... seen this done enough times without any buddying.

-=-=-

Buddying between boberz and mariyta

Boberz:

Mariyta, pick somebody other than moose to wagon and Ill go with you. Who?
--
I vaugely think I found [AntB] slightly scummy during my initial read as well, I too wil reread.
--
Why mariyta sbstrike?
--
Tbh my buddying was blatant. I asked him who he wanted me to vote for so I cannot fault you in that.

Mariyta:

[Mariyta, pick somebody other than moose to wagon and Ill go with you. Who?]

Off the top of my head, I'm thinking AntB, but I do still need to re-read, which will happen tomorrow during the soccer game.
--
Boberz: The attitude today seems a bit... meeker? than yesterday. Aside from that, he seems alright.
--
Re: the buddy accusation, it doesn't deserve addressing. "Buddying" is horribly overused.
[...]
he already stated he thinks I'm likely town, and it's not uncommon for people to hitch their ponies to someone they deem town.
--
Buddying is only useful after someone flips scum, so if you continue to use that as part of your case, you are going to be horribly disappointed.

Has anyone noticed the blatant buddying between Rat and AntB, after all the accusations of buddying between me and Bob? It's pretty entertaining.

==

So boberz admits to buddying.. and even re-reads to try and pull evidence. the "perform" being a big slip makes me lol, building evidence in the form of perverting the meaning of a word I used. From performing[doing] an action to performing[acting] an action. Now that is grabbing at straws.

Depite Mariyta seemingly incredible dislike of boberz D1, she quickly goes along with his buddying, despite only saying later that "he seems alright". Better yet, Buddying is "overused" and "only good on a flip" and yet accuses me and rat of buddying up, despite what she said previously.

-=-=-

tl;dr:
I ask for evidence on rat, rat disects boberz case on me.
Boberz admits to buddying and perverts the meaning of "performing" into his case; Mariyta goes along happily with the buddying despite holding a general negative view then quickly changing, says "buddying" is "overused" and "only good after scum lynch", then throws it at me and rat. And now boberz who says I'm scum with rat wants an overview on the cases against him...

[AntB]

@Dekes
Quotes are a wonderful thing and should be considered when reading a post.

@Boberz

[...] I do not have to respond to every thing you say to me [...]

There's a refusal to answer a question right there... meaning there's at least one unanswered question.

[AntB]

He is scum with pappumsrat. That is my case.

(It isnt I will show it to year at a time when it is not new years eve (no longer))

The first quote was not serious, I said so in that very post.

I must've missed it. Care to highlight for me?

[AntB]

(It isnt I will show it to year at a time when it is not new years eve (no longer))

Read to me as "This isn't my case, but I will provide one later"
not as "I'm joking, pappums isn't scum but AntB is."

[AntB]

Pappums case on Boberz and Maiyta is agreeable (lack of transparency, refusal to answer questions, D1 bus D2 buddy, etc)

However, The case against Pappums is good. Inconsistency, failure to acknowledge the case on him, unable to track the votes of his attackers (I

always

keep track of votes against me...

I'm not even 50% into the doc claim... If Boberz was Obvtown you should have protected him as soon as Moose claimed where his shot was going.
What information could you have pulled from an "Obvtown"s flip?
Sure opinions can change... if they did, why? when?
I also find it odd that the two people you claim are "Obvtown" are now your main suspects..? You seem to be doing the opposite of Boberz/Mayirta... but being a lot more subtle about it...

[...] anyone can lie during a claim [...]

[AntB]

What about between you and Boberz D1 and D2? That's about as contradictory in behaviours you can get as you can get!

Also considering there's almost an hour and half between my post and yours, surely you would've just cut the crap and gone straight back to voting me?

[AntB]

I'm already commited to boberz and mariyta as scum. I would like you to answer all the questions I presented, however. Where'd you get 4 from btw?

[AntB]

Inconsistency in that you can't seem to get many things straight. Your getting a lot of things wrong then apologising for them, so either your trying to plant evidence or just dumb town. The "failure to acknowledge case" comes from when your were asking people to state their cases on you when they already had.Its also where Mariytas lack of transparency comes in...

i'd think scum would have every reason to know this (as would town obviously)

Fluffy.and perhaps subconscious hinting.

and i have already explained not protecting boberz.

But what information would you have gained, exactly?

the doc didnt protect me because he thought I was getting killed. Bollocks.

One point I can agree on with him on today. Even in my unusual play style your don't sacrifice "obvitown" for info.

[AntB]

I think my brain just melted...

You were attacking eac other throughout D1, then with absolutely no indication at all you buddying up as though you've been peachy all along.
Leaves me thinking you've ha d the chance to discuss things when others haven't...

[AntB]

And yet you've only just decided to explain this despite all what I've thrown at you. (¬_¬)
My vote is staying where it is.

[AntB]

when I am attacking you I am not trying to convince you, I ma trying to convince everyone else

And in defending and counter attacking I'm doing the same and trying to get information to assist in reads.

[AntB]

Seriously, guys. This dude has been hiding ever since the boberz and Mariyta vs. Pappums and AntB clash started. He's been tunneling on the easy VI target for two days straight now. He hasn't commented at all on the pappums wagon and after a horrible Mariyta case and going into defensive mode he's been lurking and stalling content again.

I've gotta agree with you fully on this. Its not like there's no content to go on...

If you help me lynch this scumbag, I'm willing to reconsider my opinion on AntB for you.

Meaning you probably already have.

[AntB]

You got any excuse for your complete change in activity sub? Looking back your activity is considerably lower D2...

[AntB]

lolwut?
substrike is that a confession?

[AntB]

Well my thoughts have been blown clean out of the water by boberz hammer.. I've been rereading trying to find links from substrike to others and found nothin to really build on...

[AntB]

I've know people play the "omg I'm town" all the way through twilight before then flip scum...

What the hell... VOTE: Mariyta Bet boberz siding up to you like that was a godsend. Explains a lot of why you weren't suspicious of it and went along with it.

[AntB]

And case:
Post #155

Something strikes me as off about Substrike. Can't put my finger on it, though. His posts just make me go "hmm..."

No more mention until #504...

Substrike: He owns the patent on MTV (Moose Tunnel Vision). Before doing an ISO, I thought Substrike was scummy. But I didn't find anything conclusive in the ISO, so maybe it's just his tunneling.

349 posts were made between #155 and #504, 14 from Mariyta with no mention of substrike...

UNVOTE: Rat, VOTE: Substrike

Yes, I know, you expected me to re-vote AntB. But I've thought about Dekes' comment on Substrike's inactivity, and Rat's explanation for why he's failed to comment on Substrike is totally not satisfactory. I'm thinking scum buddies, and I'd rather take out the non-doc.

then shortly after

Actually,
UNVOTE: Substrike
VOTE: AntB

So he's scum but you make no attempt to question him about it... You seem to have questioned everyone else you suspected...

[AntB]

But even then you questioned the people you thought were scummy... looks like a lazy bus to me.

[AntB]

UNVOTE: Maryita
I buy it. My apologises m'lady.

Ok, so my suspect list now stands at "pffffffft"...
ISO reads needed...

[AntB]

Best I can pull is gut feelings on Dekes and Lateralus... Lateralus being the stronger feeling...

[AntB]

There's still plenty of content, not much I can pull any decent scum reads off out of those remaining who I dont have a >50% town read on, however.

[AntB]

I shouldn't play when I just wake up.
Sub was scum, you were his biggest pusher... I can't explain the gut feeling I have.. something just is off somehow...
Also, keeping all my options "alive" would be also mentioning boberz and AttM.

Lateralus on the other hand...

• hasn't been on either wagon so far, potentially keeping his head down.
  
• was willing to hammer substrike, but then vanished without a trace.
  
• builds a case on rat then slips a post from me in there seemingly as part of his case
  
• "I'm only active/serious in about 2 games, the rest I'm actually neglecting." -Translation-> "I'm lurking and here's my cover".
  
• ISO 24: "Will read up sometime" ISO25: "yeah yeah il get something soon" ISO26: "I refuse to make a big nice catch up post today, simply because, I don't feel like it"

VOTE: Lateralus' Slot

@NS: Requesting prod on Lateralus22

[AntB]

Oh look who posts as soon as he's mentioned. 5 days later.

[AntB]

Point on 3 days night, but still 2 days MIA, and with a threat to hammer I would have thought you'd keep a closer eye on the game.

"I just replaced out of one of my games because I got so far behind. Go ahead an verify how active I am in my other games."
Good for you. I don't meta, so no I won't go check.

"Day 2's just started, it's 2:33 AM. Vote comes till when I'm not sleep deprieved."
Day 3 actually... and what's your local time got to do with it?

And lack of activity goes hand in hand with lurking afaik...

[AntB]

I just checked the times again, 5hrs between your post and N2 starting, fair enough.(P-EDIT: Lose track much? O_o)

Again, I don't meta. Your activity in this game is what counts, not activity elsewhere. Same as I don't judge players based on posts made in other games.
The tiredness reason is an easy one to throw around, my timezone is GMT, go look at the times I've posted. A majority of them are in the small hours...

Lots on content being a breakdown of rat, a sneak attack at me, a few points thrown at AttM (whom I will be attacking later), a handful of questions, a "Moose do you swear you're the Jack of All trades? This is SUPER important to determining if Rat is scum."

*

, " I realize this is slightly hypocritical of me but lurking now when we've got a doctor claim?"

You admit to lurking several times, iirc its common for scum to try an take a backseat and lurk to avoid having attention brought onto themselves, float up every now and again, slap a few people, voice an opinion and vanish again.

*

Anyone can swear anything, this shouldn't have affected anything. I swear I'm bulletproof/unlynchable/hated/jailkeeper/miller townie... doesn't change anything about me...

[AntB]

Fresh air, wonderful stuff....

alrighty...

I asked that question SPECIFICALLY because moose is generally a vi player and I needed him to affirm my read. If he was lying this was his last chance to say so and this was generally an effective way for dealing with these types of players based on how someone else figured out the amount of Protective roles. I can verify which game I'm talking about

But how do you find out if he's lying without lynching him? As I said before, I swear I'm some kind easy-lynch immortal miller... doesn't change anything...

I'm starting to fail understanding you

Its best not to try to understand me in the first place...

Wait a sec, why do you think Ant_Max is scum? Moreover why are you planning out when you attack people?

I didn't say that I thought he was scum, I don't have much read on him either way and I figure that would be the best way to get one.

[AntB]

I'm attacking players I have next to nothing on to get information which will give me a read. I have my list of people who are town IMO and those are the one's I'm not attacking. I'll copy my notes straight out of TomBoy if the people want it...

I don't do set-up speculation, it can throw people too easily. As for "silly self-hammers", my flip won't provide enough information to ensure a town win, so its out of the window...

@Boberz
I have no power to claim.

[AntB]

@AttM
Where exactly do you work? you seem to work a lot even though you had finals not long back...

[AntB]

Straight out of TomBoy:

Dead
SUBSTRIKE - SCUM
BrokenScraps - Town
Werewolf - Town
Beefster - Town
pappums - Town

Reads
Mariyta - Town (Cop confirmed?c)
Boberz - Town (Hammered)
Moose200x - Town (protown jack?c)
Dekes - (<50) Town (too determined to lynch substrike)
Lateralus - Scummy - was willing to hammer, jumped far to quickly at my attack. Admits and denies lurking... O_o
AttM - \Scum\ made of lead.

Initally on D3 you attacked Mari and boberz. After moose's guilty you said you had no idea who to suspect anymore and shortly after switched over to Lateralus and me.

I didn't attack boberz, D3, I attacked him D2. And moose has an innocent, not a guilty...

There's nothing wrong with setup speculation, especially in this scenario: Late in a Mini Normal with already flipped/claimed PRs because it is possible to somewhat guess the setup. Like I said, watcher, tracker, doc and JOAT is just impossible in a Mini Normal

Is it? Any set-up combination could happen in any game. We have 3 of those roles "confirmed", why not the fourth?

we can safely assume he's a goon, right?

Right, so VT has a power... wonder why they call it Vanilla if there's a power...

so I am all for Antb's death

Obviously not, where's the vote?


Something I should have twigged on to earlier:

Well, with AntB flipping scum that would most likely clear Lateralus

And when I flip town?

[AntB]

EBWODP: \scum\ is leaning scum, not

scum

[AntB]

@Mariyta
People wanted my reads, those are my reads.

[AntB]

lol at my notes all you want lead-head, you missed a question of mine.

@AttM
Where exactly do you work? you seem to work a lot even though you had finals not long back...

[AntB]

The question about his job is to see if he is lurking or if he is genuinely away a lot.

My hint of attack on boberz... how the hell is that an attack? lol elaborate on that for me please?

I didn't attack boberz at all today as I feel he is town after yesterdays hammer. Mariyta was second option after boberz as such I focused my attentions there, after moose claimed he received a town investigation on Mariyta that left only Dekes, Lateralus and AttM, who I don't have much of a read on, so I attacked to discover information.

Looky at that, L-1 with a week and half to go, so whose going to bump me off and scum a free shot?
Tempted to bump myself off if it means Dekes or Lateralus get lynched...

[AntB]

(Don't worry, I won't for a while yet )

[AntB]

I won't while nearer the deadline (if I do), theres not enough information to be gained from my self-hammering at this point. If I'm sure people will have a solid scum read on a person, and enough people have that to ensure a lynch, then I'll do it...

[AntB]

Exactly, a week is enough time to build up cases against other players and get information to enter D4 with.

@Boberz
Hang on... you want me lynched... what difference does a self hammer while nearly sat the deadline make? You get my lynch, my alignment, etc...

[AntB]

I haven't threatened it... just said I was tempted

if

it would mean Dekes or Lateralus being lynched tomorrow, which evidently isn't currently going to happen currently as there's not enough support; and even then if I did, it only really be to ensure the town doesn't have a no-lynch. (hence, practically sat on a deadline).

Guessing you never played chess much? Sometimes your surrender a piece to capture a bigger piece, as a VT I'm pretty disposable, like a chess pawn. If my death results in scum being taken out, then I'm happy.

[AntB]

Can we get moose and AttM prodded as well? Its a 3-man game so far activity wise...

[AntB]

Also, a lot of your words doesn't match up with your actions.
- Your say you're toying with self-hammering, yet you don't want the day to end this early because not enough reads and cases have been build.

The initial reference was a joke, however, as people didn't take it as that I felt I should make clear my opinion on it.
to clarify:

I will only self-hammer if we are sat on the deadline and one vote short unless someone can convince me NL is a better option.

If I was scum I would have self-hammered a long time ago, why risk outing scumbuddies when I'm past the point of no return?

- You call me repeatedly scum without a case behind it. Only thing I could find is in your notes that I was too determined to lynch Substrike which is simply ridiculous. You were close to getting lynched yesterday. All WIFOM aside, why wouldn't I lynch you and go into LyLo today without having to bus anyone? Doesn't make any sense at all.

I'll admit my notes are quite minimal, admittedly the note doesn't match up to the read. Your pushing of Substrike seems

too

hard... Without having a PR, how would you know he was scum(?)

- You first say you want to attack ATTM to get a better read on him, yet in your next post you say you're leaning scum on him without any reasoning behind it. What's worse is that you never followed up on those attacks on ATTM that you promised (unless asking him where he works and calling him lead-head helps you getting a read on him, lol ).

There has been promised content, and I was waiting on it and I didn't want to bias it, which is surprisingly easy....

Only telling people what should be done now is just you appearing to be active and pro-town while we are second guessing ourselves. But you are not wriggling yourself out of your lynch today.

I have accepted my fate, I'm lynchmeat. This said, I am VT and I do not want people marching into D4 un-prepared and my questioning today is to provide information for tomorrow.

---

#277

@Moose
One last chance to do something pro-town. saying your vig and going after boberz needs a serious come-back now.

Just another Bob/Moose connection.

Just another? Want to provide some others?

@Lateralus
Whose? if your meaning mine, Dekes and Substrike are the only ones I have >50% confidence in.

AntB makes a connection towards Sub and Dekes.

Not really... Reads don't implicitly imply connections.

I think my brain just melted...

You were attacking eac other throughout D1, then with absolutely no indication at all you buddying up as though you've been peachy all along.
Leaves me thinking you've ha d the chance to discuss things when others haven't...

I think we can ask this about you and Bob now.

[/quote]
I don't see any buddying. None any where near the blatant buddying I was referring to in the related attack.

There was some buddying between Bob and AntB D1. Might just be me here, but those "notes" just seem shotty for notes on D3. Doesn't seem like there is much content from someone taking notes if they have been throughout the game.

I take minimal notes. My reads, primary reasoning, suspicions and flips. That's all I need and update them whenever the need arrives

@Antihero
Never said it wasn't.


P-EDIT
Bet your glad for no hammer now

Fixed quote tag. ~~NS

[AntB]

fail quotes..

@Mod: Fix if you can please

[AntB]

Nope, I just said I had nothing to claim...

@Antihero
There's also the possibility of a naive investigation. A cop clear for now doesn't leave much to go on and I would press anyone pushing a godfather case.

[AntB]

Calling AttM as scum

*waits for the hammer.. even though there's still a week left*

[AntB]

@Antihero:
So if I had kept up the pressure despite a cop clear on Mariyta you wouldn't be suspicious of me?


Don't write off AttM as scum when I flip, I just get the feeling he isn't paying close attention..

[AntB]

Don't write off AttM as scum when I flip, I just get the feeling he isn't paying close attention..

Wait a second, I thought you were "calling him as scum" last page.

Could have been worded better, I'm saying when I flip town, don't write AttM off your suspisions list, he's here alright, but he doesn't seem to be paying

close

attention to the game. He's been under the radar a lot and he's provided a nice little point himself,

I will be honest though, my post that

I was doing my highlight ISO read on him did get very half assed.

Why so "half assed" over it?

[AntB]

@AntB, you believe you have an unorthodox playstyle. Your play here looks very orthodox to me. Could you explain to me why you feel you are different from the norm?

I like to screw with meta. the clue is just after that part on the wiki.

P-EDIT
I also have a habit of not playing to site-meta it seems...
@Mariyta
So your using AttMs newbness and the lack of him being scolded to clear him of scuminess?

[AntB]

Was meant in relevance to today.