Mafia 1114: Jim's Mafia - Game OVER!!!!

[RobCapone]

Vote mute

mute's can't do well in mafia since they can't talk

[RobCapone]

1) What is everybody's timezone? This can be important if you live overseas and we're expecting a post from you, and it wont come until the wee hours of the morning.
2) What is your mafia experience here and elsewhere? It helps my reads to know who are the pros and who are still learning.
3) About how often can we expect you to post? Is this consistent with your meta?

1. United States East Coast time
2. Been on site here just a few months, played elsewhere for over a year but the style there is nothing even close to this (MS is way more serious)
3. The early days on MS, I would easily out-post anyone on this site, but after complaints from people in just about every game I have played and work cracking down, I have scaled back. I should be able to post multiple times a day though

[RobCapone]

Checking in real fast on lunch break

@ DP - I had just woke up and had about 3 to 4 inches of snow/ice to clean off my sidewalk and car, plus I had to get to work

I was just responding to the questions cause those were easy and don't take any time

You won't get much content when I'm at work either, I'll respond to the going ons sometime tonight

[RobCapone]

Why are our 2 recent posters answering useless questions, but ignoring relevent discussion (the current wagon)??

Unvote, Vote: RobCapone

ok I am not going through now I am home and have time to read through. I am posting my thoughts as I go, I am not reading and going back.

1. so what was the purpose of asking AND voting, do you feel they need to be together? You can't just ask and wait for my response? you can't vote and just give that as your reason?

2. What makes that wagon relevant when it isn't even a wagon yet, I don't consider it a bandwagon until more than half of the required number to lynch have voted(example if it takes 7 to lynch it doesn't become a bandwagon to me until there are 4 votes)

3. I did find his original statement to seem like it was a lurker vote, he later says it wasn't. At this point I will believe him because it is day 1 and the game hasn't been open long enough to have anyone considered lurking. Now his declaration that this person IS scum and not "I think he is" or some variation does raise a red flag but since I was about to leave for work and I felt he had enough votes on him for pressure, my vote wasn't going to add anything to the issue. I am not just going to vote somebody until

I feel

they are scummy. I will make my own case for my vote and not just vote because they are the biggest wagon.

that being said it is obvious we are out of RVS so I will remove my RVS vote

Unvote

[RobCapone]

Now my read through for what I missed today

(post 39) Javert's explanation of his vote actually makes sense, although I will say it is a tactic I haven't really seen used before and it did seem scummy at the time it happened

(post 40)DP - Interesting you call me

"lurker/fence-sitter scum"

when you don't even know my situation, the game hasn't even been open for 24 hours and opened close to my bed time, and you have no basis to accuse me of fence sitting at this point in the game(note to DP, learn definition of fence sitting), just because I don't respond to the beginning of a wagon. I again notice at the end of the post you attack me again. this is just crappy play if you are town.

(post 41) @ David, Why do you seem so intent on removing the wagon from Javert, he is a big boy and he can defend himself, especially if he brought the attention to himself. I can only think of a limited number of reasons why you would be defending him, but I won't speculate too much right now until I see the game develop more. In addition if you knew what he was trying to do, why did you feel the need to ruin it? He was obviously doing it for a reason and you just took the wind out of his sail so now he looked scummy for it and he can't get the "money shot"

(post 43) - Edge I disagree with your point about lurkers, lurkers are scummy so we can very easily get into that spiral because my experience has shown this to be true in almost every game I have played. Scum lurk because it takes attention off of them, and it is quite easy to tell which lurkers are truly disinterested and which ones are lurking scum, I will keep an eye on them and point them out as I notice them, but right now the game is still early so nobody is really a lurker yet.

The rest of the posts I am just taking mental notes, no need to put everything down on paper but I will point out some interesting content from Mr. Parker since he was so eager to falsely accuse me of stuff, I feel I have the right to point out his particularly bad play.

The town were all tunneling on a player because of his refusal to answer questions and be apart of the town

- so 3 people are "the town"?

They didn't look into the intent behind Javert's play

how do you know if they did or didn't? Just because you "claim" to see his intent doesn't mean it is apparent to everyone else

To me, "diffusing the situation" was a matter of focusing the town on actual scum hunting

trying to get town points? Thank you for your help Mr. Parker, but what if some people actually thought J was scum and they were scum hunting, also since you diffused the point of J's plot you have basically made that entire thing wortless and actually TAKEN AWAY from scum hunting.

I mean someone was more than welcome to show how what Javert did was more likely scum than town,

you didn't even give people the chance, you just said people were voting him for the "wrong reasons"

When asked what he has done to get the town focused on scum hunting he replies

These questions are getting more and more generic and annoying. I've been highlighting what's actually relevent, putting things in context, deterring discussion about MD (ie: policy lynching etc), and focusing on players reactions and intent in their post, just general analysis.

1. highlighting what is relevant to DP is not what is relevant to me or any other player and it doesn't help town get back to scum hunting
2. putting things into context - not sure how he even did this, unless his defending J's ploy was an example, but that doesn't help anyone get focused, if anything he took away from it because the reaction to the wagon and the reaction from the person J' voted never got to play out fully.
3. deterring discussion about MD (ie: policy lynching etc) - this doesn't get us focused from scum hunting and I know why DP is objecting to PL's it's because I am willing to bet he has been PL'd many times on this site
4. his interpretation of intent is different than others and saying what a person's intent is or isn't really isn't acceptable because it is the equivilent of speaking for somebody else or answering the question for them, it isn't genuine imo and borders scummy
5. Giving your own analysis doesn't help town get focused on scum hunting either, it gives town something to consider when looking at who to target I will give you that but reading your posts don't make me go OMG we need to start scum hunting.

btw if you are pro-town and you respond to questions from somebody by calling them or their questions annoying, you really are setting yourself as a model player in this game

My "concern" was because the 3 people voting him were for all the wrong reasons.

- just because they are wrong to you doesn't mean they are wrong to anyone else. What makes your compass of right and wrong better than everyone elses?

They were going after an easy wagon on someone who was in reality helping the game progress.

DP, the wagon on him WAS helping the game progress, his vote declaration I don't think was never going to take off because once somebody declares something as fact especially this early on, that person is going to be suspect. If he was trying to get a wagon on himself going, than he succeeded and you just eliminated everything good that could have come out of it.

man you give me tons of good material as to why we should lynch you, but because I know of you and your history, I know that this is essentially pushing a policy lynch (regardless if you are scum or town, lynching you today is a policy lynch because you fall into the category of Furclow, Drmyshotty, etc)

so I will suggest the same thing to you that a good player on here suggested to me.

Take a breath and think before you hit that submit button.

[RobCapone]

@ edge - lurking is anti-town plain and simple so to be against a lurker lynch is sketchy at best. I am not saying that we drop a bandwagon and go after them but if we hit a point in the game early on a lurker lynch should definitely not be something to be against. Lurking is anti-town because it deprives town of content and lurkers aren't likely to scum hunt very well, if at all.

secondly I would like to add that i don't really care for the reason that Ice gave for his mute vote and I don't like the strong reaction he had to the policy lynching suggestion. I will be honest I am not 100% against a policy lynch if I know the player's habits and he is going to screw town over (furclow for example) and I don't think anyone in here has shown traits of being bad enough to deserve a PL. I do think if a few more days go by and we have some genuine lurkers, I will definitely be up for a lurker policy lynch, but it's too early in the game for that.

[RobCapone]

@ ice

Rob, you seem to have a lot of material to indicate you are at odds with David. You seem to disagree with him a lot, but you make good points. I am concerned, however, that a lot of your post was dedicated to disagreeing with him and not a lot of it was dedicated to analyzing his alignment. Do you feel that his actions were scummy? Do you feel like David is more likely to flip scum than other players right now?

I actually have a feeling that he could be scum and here is why.

I don't like the fact that he has defended Javert for his attempt at reaction fishing while completely negating the whole exercise. While I feel that yes Javert put the attention on himself, how can ANYONE think he was pro-town enough to be defended like DP was doing. The fact that he completely ruined the gambit to me means that he was doing 2 things.

1. defending Javert because DP thinks (or maybe knows) he is town
2. taking the attention off magnus

here is where it gets interesting

when magnus DOES make an appearance, who does he go after? David Parker now this looks like they are trying to distance from each other.

than magnus asks me about my comment on DP and says that DP doesn't remind him of furclow

timeout

@ magus - if he is ONLY being annoying and playing like a VI than yes we can excuse it on day 1, however re-reading when I have more energy I am noticing that his play isn't annoying, it's suspicious.

time in

David's reaction to magnus's questions is proof that he isn't taking the game serious OR magnus seriously. If I asked somebody questions and they called me annoying, I'd be on his ass even harder, especially if he gives half-assed answers (and yes I have meta to support this statement)

1. post 86 DP wants to know how many votes Ice has, he does drop subtle hints that he thinks he is scummy, but nothing overly serious
2. post 99 - DP wants a vote count - although on the surface, nothing is wrong with wanting a vote count, the fact that he earlier has said he wanted to know how many votes Ice has, this seems like another attempt to check the wagon.
3. post 102 is worthless and he isn't adding anything to the discussion on the Ice wagon, mute wagon, or anyone else for that matter
4. Mr. I am against PL is now agreeing with me that he would be up for a PL on lurkers
5.

By the way, despite hating lurkers, I do like what Prox has posted in general, he has been straight-up and hasn't pretended that he will "catch up soon" or post some semi-fake-content which I would see as more likely to come from scum who don't have the time to keep up with all the wall posts we are posting. Also, I love Catcher in the Rye, so that reference wins mega town points.

this reaks because actually prox has said

As for everyone else, I'll have to actually read your posts instead of skimming them, I guess.

And

I'll probably never know if you've said something scummy in that post because if I try to read it, I'll just be reading the words and not the message.

both of these are admissions that he isn't even making an effort to read the game, just skimming it.


I don't see any real content from Parker, I don't see any real effort from parker, I don't see any real case from parker about Ice, yet he seems concerned with the vote count(especially since he isn't voting for anyone ATM). Add that to the weird interaction between Javert/Parker/Magnus as I outlined earlier, I am comfortable enough doing this

Vote David Parker

[RobCapone]

and my comment on the Ice wagon, I feel his reactions are sincere and he is defending himself apropriately

his vote on Javert and Mute both make sense to me.

Right now I am more interested in the possible Parker/Magnus scum team possibility

[RobCapone]

looking over the Magnus posts, after moving on from David parker he goes on to try and figure out why people are voting for Ice and says he is against the Ice lynch, now obviously without knowing what Ice is, i can't speculate but if Ice does get lynched and he flips town, this is just going to solidify in my mind he is scum trying to defend Ice for points.

The real reason for this thinking I have is he doesn't really say WHY he thinks Ice is not scummy or not a good lynch.

he asks ice questions and while he is waiting for Ice to clarify he goes through and asks the people voting Ice about their votes.

[RobCapone]

I'd probably get lazy if no one pushed me to post. I can't go around making wallposts and I can't waste time I could spend posting on reading 1000 word essays on nothing. Skimming will suit me; as it isn't as much what you say as how you say it. Besides, when I have time I really will read the wallposts.

I notice that ICE's tone has shifted a bit since my last visit to the thread. It's now a bit more normal. That makes me think that the old tone actually was an incident of overacting and that ICE has attempted to fix it.

My real issue has been the way he's said things. There've been a few times where I've been close to getting mislynched for trying too hard to end the RVS. But I have also been legitimately lynched for playing the well-versed mild-mannered townie routine too strongly. Seems like tactfulness is overrated in mafia.

Any player can be careful about what he says, but townies should have an easier job doing it.

Since ninja's style has shown itself to be both abnormal and quick to change with pressure, I find it disingenuous.

vote ICEninja

L-1? Time for claim?

this makes no sense, so you put him at L-1 because you find his play abnormal, quick to change, and disingenuous?

1. how do you know it is abnormal?
2. I will give you that this CAN be a slight scum tell, but not reason enough alone imo
3. how can you justify this, how do you know he is disingenuous?

[RobCapone]

I would not be adverse to a hammer without even letting ICEninja claim if he is going to try and be squirrelly about it. If I had another vote, I would vote him again right now.

Can you point out to what you are referring to?

Also can you explain what in your mind he has done that is SO BAD, he shouldn't get an opportunity to claim

[RobCapone]

am going to declare V/LA till monday. too much work, i will get a full read in when i can.

Why not request a replacement? Missing 5 days of content isn't going to make this any easier to follow, I've replaced into games before and it's hard to re-read as the game progresses, why not just get somebody in now early ?

[RobCapone]

Ok, I agree policy Lynching will get us nowhere. It is a horrible idea, ad will turn up a town, witch won't help the town. Suggesting it is scummy, but for now I am inclined to leave mute alone. I don't think there is anything solid on him. I am not quite sure what to me of what is going on, generally I will vote on what makes the most sense to me.

Now, a lot of people will think I am lurking, but I am not. If I have nothing to say, i won't say anything. I am still inexperienced, so i am not great at knowing what to make of other's posts.

My best way of finding scum is finding the bandwagoners. I don't like bandwagons. I find if someone is constantly jumping on a bandwagon, I take extreme suspicion of him/her.

also, seeing the RVS is done :

unvote

Oh boy I missed this one

1. He says a policy lynch will result in a townie lynched, later when called on it he says something about not enough evidence to find him scummy which isn't what he said originally.

2. "I'm not lurking but I am not posting either" is my summary of what he basically says. Saying you aren't going to post if you have nothing to say when there is more than enough content going on deserving of your participation. How do we know you are not keeping quiet so you won't scum slip?

3. You scumhunt by attacking bandwagoners? Definitely need to play mafia more, you will soon realize town will almost always bandwagon just like scum, that's a horrible guage. You need to look deeper to catch scum, sometimes not but usually you do.

[RobCapone]

* also if you are inexperienced like you say, why play here and not a newbie game where they have ICs who teach you how to play, there are no teachers in this game

Not knowing how to interpret what people say is a cop out, you read it and ask yourself if it makes sense to you, if yes move on, if no question the person about it

Go to mafia discussion and read mastin's guide to scum hunting, he explains what a mafia player should do in games

[RobCapone]

Despite what the wiki says, a policy lynch is lynching somebody for a specific reason

Lynching the known VI is a policy lynch because you know the VI is going to hurt the town
Lynching a lurker can also be called a policy lynch for the same reason, a lurker, if they are town will usually hurt the town(been burned by this before)

So I dont take kindly to lurkers, never have, and if there is nothing going on I will push for a lurker lynch

Thankfully this game has plenty going on, so while I notice who is/isn't participating, I feel that a PL on them now isn't called for.

Lynch all lurkers is a policy lynch but the only one acceptable to me(unless I'm playing with furc and I'm town, I will go to the grave demanding he is policy lynched)

[RobCapone]

@ javert - why did you just put a bunch of things that Ice never actually says in a quote to imply that he actually said those things? How is putting words into his mouth a pro-town tactic?

[RobCapone]

except you could have just said that, the fact you put it in quotes and implied Ice said it is very scummy play and even though it isn't in the rule set, it should be.

I do agree with your points, just don't agree with your tactics.

[RobCapone]

Attacking bad play or bad arguments is not the same as defending the player who the attacks are directed towards. This appears to be what DavidParker did. He came to the game to see ridiculous attacks on me, and pointed out why they were silly.

and fyi this is just what I did, I attacked YOUR scummy play but you accuse me of being his partner

so why can david get away with it and not be linked to you as partners but when I do it I am automatically linked to Ice

because it is the exact same thing, if anything what I did was a better example than what DP did.

[RobCapone]

Oh. Ice is only at L-3 now.

vote ICE

Ok, tomorrow s Saturday, meaning I'll have some daylight hours to spend on the internet, since my mom is a narcissist and my dad works. I will read this thread through and be able to take notes rather than remember things in my head.

Then I can base my opinions on more than tone, which, though I consider it a good start considering ICE's most phony post, isn't enough for a lymch. I assume there's more to this wagon than tone and word choice.

so pops goes to work and your mom stares at a mirror all day?

[RobCapone]

Ya know Javert, I've read that post by ICE several times and until you posted that I still wasn't able to get that from it. I'll chalk it up to difference in personalities and such, but even with all that's been brought up I still feel ICE to be town.

+1

Except I'll move ice a few notches down and put him as null instead of town

I didn't interpret that way either but now seeing it from your perspective, it makes sense that is what he could have been saying.

Only reason why I'm not set on lynching him yet is because I have made comments people accused me of sounding scummy, which even I agree they did, and I was town

One game on another site the mod gave flavor that the weapon was a "blunt object" and later I said it was a brick. People lynched me cause they thought it was a slip and it was just a dumbass mistake on my part.

Besides that 1 post J, can you maybe condense your case on ice cause it's hard to decipher in these longer posts.

Thanks

[RobCapone]

@ mute - what is a candlejack?

[RobCapone]

@ ice

Rob, you seem to have a lot of material to indicate you are at odds with David. You seem to disagree with him a lot, but you make good points. I am concerned, however, that a lot of your post was dedicated to disagreeing with him and not a lot of it was dedicated to analyzing his alignment. Do you feel that his actions were scummy? Do you feel like David is more likely to flip scum than other players right now?

I actually have a feeling that he could be scum and here is why.

I don't like the fact that he has defended Javert for his attempt at reaction fishing while completely negating the whole exercise. While I feel that yes Javert put the attention on himself, how can ANYONE think he was pro-town enough to be defended like DP was doing. The fact that he completely ruined the gambit to me means that he was doing 2 things.

1. defending Javert because DP thinks (or maybe knows) he is town
2. taking the attention off magnus

Which of DP's posts is this in reference to?

I don't want to rebut your DP case in advance of DP doing so - but I'll say now that I think points 1-2 of yours aren't scummy (from DP), point 3 is kind of "so what?" (a single non-adding post is hardly uncommon), 4 is just wrong (I see that DP has already answered this point - so I will say I agree with him. He (wrongly imo) advoctates lurker lynching on the basis that lurking is scummy. He's wrong on that point, but if he thinks lurking is scummy, which a lot of people seem to, then it isn't a policy lynch)

quotes from DP

this is where he is defending (protecting, or whatever else you want to call it) Javert because people are voting him

I'm disappointed by players reactions to Javert's antics. They are searching for reactions and you guys are giving them - bad ones.

He is moving us out of RVS even if it's by drawing negative attention to himself. Now get your votes off him.

I'll be looking at the various reactions to Javert to see which is most scummy.

this is where he admits he has ruined javert's attempt at reaction fishing

Sorry for ruining your little "ploy" but frankly I wasn't that interested in magnus's reaction and don't think it would have been as revealing as you are making it to be. It may have been interesting to see whether he bandwagoned you or not, but I could see him doing that as town or scum. As it stands, it was more important to diffuse the situation and get people off your back.

So yes, Javert's play while not being a town tell in my eyes, was definitely a move that benefited town (YEAH I KNOW CONTRADICTION)

and once that happened nobody paid any attention to magnus and what does DP get for taking the attention off magnus and defending Javert for his attempt to end RVS and reaction fish (which DP ruins) he gets this post from magnus

Vote: Davidparker
David has shown an over reactive concern over the 3 votes put on another player, upon whom he had a null read, rather than allowing his read to be potentially substantiated by the reactions of the player in question, proceeded to attempt to dispel the wagon against the player. This is concerning, since it suggests David is more concerned with the attitude of the town as a whole, and how it behaves and reacts to certain actions (and suggests David seeks to control these aspects to some degree), rather than the alignments of individual players. This is an attitude which suggests scum motivation behind David's actions, especially considering the underwhelming amount of pressure on Javert at the time. His attempt to bring order to chaos I believe to be a result of his attempt to bring the game to a point where it can be predicted and controlled effectively, so that he may better fulfill his scum win condition. In particular, I believe this to be contrasted to a more town motivation, which would seek to see how Javert responds to the pressure being applied, in order to better gauge Javert's alignment, and the alignments of the players wagoning him, especially when he believes scum may have been prepared to take advantage of this situation and reveal themselves somewhat by joining the wagon (narrowing down suspects, of course, always being an important consideration for a pro-town player).
Alternatively, david may have seen this as an opportunity to behave in a manner he believed to be "pro-town" by diffusing an argument between townies. This is telling because he remains uncertain of Javerts alignment, but does not desire a wagon against javert for reaction purposes, and has in fact resisted the formation of such a wagon. Also considering his resistance to answering questions, it is difficult to imagine how he expects scum hunting to be done, having ruled out the two most generally used options.

it is just pinging on my scumdar, in the end it could be nothing but in my head I am skeptical about the whole thing and David is right in the middle of it all

and now like I pointed out DP earlier, DP asks for how many votes on Ice (hasn't voted him yet)
later asks for a vote count (still hasn;t voted him yet)

and he even says he finds Ice scummy and when I ask him about his case for Ice he leaves this little gem in his wall of text

@Rob: By all means, I was curious as to Ice's wagon. I felt and still do feel it is a legitimately scummy wagon to some extent and

was thinking of putting my vote on him,

I don't need to hide that.

You don't see any case from Parker about ICE because I haven't made one,

the case has been made, when the case was first made

I found Mute scummier than Ice based on the cases alone, based on the player reactions to the 2 wagons I found ICE somewhat scummier than Mute at times.

He has made some comments which just don't rub off as town responses, but other posts such as his 124 do seem like town responses.

so he basically says he agrees with 2 cases made by other people but as time goes on he finds Ice more scummy (

the way I see it is he becomes scummier the larger the wagon gets)

and what happens when Ice is at L-2?

How can a player who has no votes or pressure on him flail??

The last thing you comment on isn't all that weird or uncommon. Scum would rather avoid a wagon if they can. So maybe you've made yourself too easy/scummy a target and scum are just watching the wagon kick off. Or they could be taking advantage of your poor response. There is motive for both.

(OR YOU COULD BE SCUM CAUGHT!)

now i end this by saying that i don't think that Ice is off the hook because his play is definitely scummy and I don't want to de-rail his wagon because I am not 100% sure that DP is scum but when you add all of this and look at who DP has voted for, you will see he has only made 1 vote before he puts Ice at L-1 and that was me for not commenting about the Javert case because I had to go to work and had to shovel snow first.

Whew sorry about that.

[RobCapone]

well that makes it easy

Vote Ice

[RobCapone]

1, yes I believe he has been lynched and we are waiting for a mod
2. yes there can be 2 mafia factions, I have played in 1 already and they are lame (it's 2 mafia in each faction, the only good thing is the 2 mafia groups try to kill each other)
3. based on a couple of posts in the open game suggestion thread, Jim has made suggestions for a 2 mafia game so I would not put it past him

[RobCapone]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2743521

all this is still very valid points and because you refused to make a single case on anyone yesterday and just hopped on at the last minute (probably to hammer your partner) I feel good about this vote

Vote David Parker

[RobCapone]

inb4 David Parker accuses me of OMGUS because he was my area of concern day 1 and nothing has changed.

[RobCapone]

I was going to?

I don't know if you would do that, where i normally play they definitly do that, regardless if there is a valid reason or not so it's a habbit

all I do know is during the night phase I read over games where you were town and I was only able to find 1 game so far when you were scum (which you replaced into)

and I definitely don't see you playing your town meta, so I will just add that to another reason I am suspicious of you.

[RobCapone]

Vote: RobCapone

1.)

You seemed to be avoiding me when I was directly asking you to give an opinion on ICEninja (from Post 151). But you were happy to make conversation with Mute and Prox during the same time period.

2.)

In Post 149 you said you “agreed with [my] points” on ICEninja. Very shortly after, you imply just the opposite in Post 160, but tacking a “+1” to Mute’s comment about

not

seeing my points.

~

Prepost edit: I see absolutely no point in discussing whether anybody thinks there is a second mafia team at this point.

1. I missed that post which is why I didn't respond to it, my apologies

2. I would suggest you read post 160 again because Mute said.

Ya know Javert, I've read that post by ICE several times and

until you posted that I still wasn't able to get that from it.

I'll chalk it up to difference in personalities and such, but even with all that's been brought up I still feel ICE to be town.

and I gave that a +1 because I agreed that before you wrote it out like that I did not see your points. so I didn't contradict my 149, I actually re-confirmed it.

3. If you are going to accuse me of ignoring your questions, I can do the same to you because in my post 160 I ask you to post a condensed case on Ice and you never did.

I will take note that you are ignoring a very strong case on David Parker, I just skimmed your posts and you have yet to comment on anything I have said about David's play and given he defended you early on for no reason what so ever, to me just makes me more skeptical of your relationship in this game.

you want to vote me fine go ahead but atleast have a good reason for it, because your #1 isn't nearly enough when you are guilty of it too and your # 2 has just been disproven.

kthx

[RobCapone]

I'm sorry you dont see it my way but saying people are voting Javert for the wrong reasons is an attempt to defend him
Explaining what Javert was trying to do, instead of letting Javert's gambit play out takes away from it, thus preventing a reaction from the person he was attacking (clanking on name at the moment)
That person showing up voting DP seemed odd
DP did say he found ice scummy, he said he found mute scummy too but he never really says why, he admits he doesn't make a case because others have already (this is sheeping and refusal to make your own case IS a scum tell)
As Ice's wagon gets bigger DP finds him more scummy
DP's only other vote that day ( going off memory, can't verify on my iPhone ATM) was me for not commenting on the Javert wagon, but DP doesn't really add anything to the Ice wagon other than checking for votes

So today David votes me but doesn't give a reason, hasn't really even attempted to make a case on me, and Javert follows him

This relationship to me is odd but right now basedon what I have seen, DP is the best lynch candidate IMO

[RobCapone]

1. Yes refusal to make a case is a scumtell cause it's harder for scum to sound credible and it's much easier to just agree with others thoughts instead of posting original content (had been mentioned in other games I play as well and have callec out scum because if it and been right)

2. I am not "trying to make you look scummy". I am pointing out things you are doing that I think are suspicious and using those suspicions to make a case against you

3. You can clearly see you saying you find ice scummier as the game goes on and his wagon gets bigger. That is one of the things I of course I can't prove without knowing if you are scum but to call mute and ice scummy when they both had wagons forming, isn't something that should be ignored

4. OMGUS vote is funny

5. Tbh I don't care if you find me scummy or not and I can't defend myself against an OMGUS vote. The reasons I put down are valid enough to me, and You accuse me of making a manipulative statement by saying you are the best lynch, but in my opinion you are. I am not manipulating anyone else

I stand behind my case 100%

[RobCapone]

Agreeing with a good case (on someone who then flips scum) is now a scum tell??? I posted my input and reads and kept some to myself, as others did. I rethought my own reads as a result of other people's cases and found these players scummy. You seem to be trying to imply I've just town-followed the whole game... I agreed with a town case, and you are trying to sum up my entire play with this one act. You could say the same thing about countless people in this game.

No agreeing with a good case on someone who flips scum is not a scumm tell but you not adding anything to it can be, especially if you bussed your partner (no idea if it's true) but you have yet to make a case on anyone and sheeping can be a scum tell

[RobCapone]

@DP

As I said yesterday I find it odd that you defend Javert
Stop the reaction fishing gambit on Magnus
Only to have Magnus vote you

You say his vote seems town motivated but mine doesn't?

Really man, all I'm doing is pointing out things I see from my perspective and explaining them so others see it too

Clearly you 3 can't be a scum group, but out of the 3, I feel your play was least town motivated.

Javert's gambit could have worked or not - we won't know because of you
Magnus's reaction could have helped figure things out - we won't know cause of you

[RobCapone]

When I get to a computer I'll respond to your recent post Javert

I will add that your comment about my case on DP seemed more dismissive because you were locked on Ice, post 181 definitely cleans up my case better than my earlier one which essentially echos the same reasons


But like i said, later tonight I'll respond more later.

[RobCapone]

Oh one more thing

Just cause we have a wagon going on somebody doesn't mean you should stop scum hunting.

[RobCapone]

1. Given I don't know j's alignment so can't tell if it was genuine or not but it seemed like it to me
2. He ruined it by defending J for the votes he got from it and explained what it was to prevent a reaction from Magnus
3. The defense of Javert is more suspect than ruining the reaction fish, but DP getting voted by Magnus instead of Magnus voting someone else seems quite odd as well.

That's why I put DP highest on my list because if there is a relationship it is between DP and someone else. Now I'm not saying I am 100% completely sure but based on my reads I'm fine with a DP lynch, knowing that if he flips town I'm going to be in a heap of trouble but it's a risk I'm willing to take cause that is how sure I am. Javert was so sure yesterday about Ice, that is how I feel about DP.

[RobCapone]

Why are you trying to connect DavidParker to magnus_orion and myself when we have a confirmed dead scum, ICEninja? I think this is really the point of edgerobin's post. If you are trying to connect somebody to anybody, it should be ICEninja.

Despite what you guys say, I'm pretty sure we have 2 mafia groups based on what Ice said, based on the "knife mafia" which if there was just 1 it would say mafia (having played in a 2 mafia setup on site it seemed familiar), and based on Jim's multiple posts in the open setup review thread, I don't beleive it ever got approved so he could easily run it as a closed


Anyway a common mafia trick is to buddy up to town people to reduce suspicion, if Javert is town than DP has successfully done this

Not so much to Magnus except he calls magnus's case "town motivated" and isn't mad at him

Third- it's clear looking at the timeline of his posts David finds ice more scummy as the wagon gets bigger, he asks how many votes ice has and later asks for a vote count. If all of these good cases had been so good why did he not vote sooner?

You guys want to ignore the 2 mafia cause we only have one body, fine but DPs reaction to the Ice wagon is also suspicious.

Saying that he didn't make a case cause others were made already is a copout

P. Edit - I trust town will make their own mind, I'm not bullying anyone to follow me, the info I post is clear cut, you either agree or disagree

[RobCapone]

I have learned that bullying people to follow me never works, I have games that support that. I have sought advice on how to improve my play and that was one thing mentioned

I feel 100% confident my case is valid if people want to point it my flaws, feel free but I am not changing my vote right now unless somebody does something worse than you. I have others I'm watching also taking notes but for now I'm good.

[RobCapone]

Why do you assume they chose to NK?
@ mute - the timeline, fence sitting between you and ice, and not adding any of his own reasons (even if it's somebody else's reasons in his own words) adds up to suspicious activity

His quick defense of Javert added in
And as stated by someone else, with plenty of content going on DP switches topics to advocate lynching lurkers if we get close to deadline, which gives him an out later if he needs one

[RobCapone]

If you are going to accuse me of ignoring your questions, I can do the same to you because in my post 160 I ask you to post a condensed case on Ice and you never did.

I felt your question did not deserve an answer (especially since you had not answered my question from Post 151). Scum can be caught using one post; you do not need a multitude of posts or a pattern to catch scum. Post 47 is, in my opinion, one of those rare posts that is enough for me to push a lynch on alone. Your question itself both implies that (i) one post is not enough to catch scum, and (ii) I was not being condensed enough. Not only is one post sufficient to catch scum, but my Post 148 is about as condensed as a case can possibly get.

Second, you had just asked me (essentially) the same question: what is “SO BAD” ICEninja? And I had already responded to that in Post 138 – also in a “condensed” manner.

So when you then asked me for a “condensed case” on ICEninja, I felt you were just dragging your feet and being purposefully obstinate. I was already being short and to the point about ICEninja,

and

other players were making cases against ICEninja (see, e.g., edgerobin, HumblePoirot, Oso). That’s a fairly strong indicator that you were not only turning a blind eye to my case, but to the ICEninja case as a whole.

I will take note that you are ignoring a very strong case on David Parker, I just skimmed your posts and you have yet to comment on anything I have said about David's play and given he defended you early on for no reason what so ever, to me just makes me more skeptical of your relationship in this game.

Actually, I directly commented on the DavidParker “case” in Post 145.

So today David votes me but doesn't give a reason, hasn't really even attempted to make a case on me, and Javert follows him

I called you out as a probable scum-partner for ICEninja on Day One; my vote on you has nothing to do with DavidParker’s vote. But nice try.

The case on you is largely based on the obliviousness (and constant questioning) you seem to show towards the possibility of ICEninja being scum, which is particularly absurd given that

multiple

players in the game were making cases against ICEninja. Furthermore, I felt that in the midst of the ICEninja wagon, you were pushing a DavidParker based on bad reasons (as I explained above in Post 145). This is enough to vote for you right now.

ok see if I can do this real fast before bowling

1. the odds of 1 post being enough to know somebody is scum is very rare, but I guess it is possible, although I can't ever remember any single post that makes me go OMG I am 100% sure he is scum, unless he slips HUGE and that one post wasn't a huge scum slip.

2. your post 148 was referring to that one post, which is also the post that I agreed with your assessment, I didn't feel that 1 post was enough to lynch him. I started to read through and I kept getting distracted by David so I pointed out his multitude of posts

3. your response to my "what is so bad about Ice" question was this

RobCapone, what is "so bad" about ICEninja? I think he is lying; and I think he is scum. I read his explanations and I do not believe them.

which is not enough to convince anyone to lynch somebody.

4. as to what I was referring to about the points on Ice, if somebody is going to convince me to change my beliefs and follow them they need to A. tell exactly what this person did that was scummy and B. why that action was scummy. this is how I play, I need more than

I think he is lying; and I think he is scum. I read his explanations and I do not believe them.

5. your comments on DP's case were mostly dismissive. When a player comes in during RVS and declares somebody scum like you did, you deserve all the negative attention you got, and his defending you does warrant a raised eyebrow. Plus I didn't see that as somebody who was acting like an idiot, it looked like you knew exactly what you were doing.

6. yes you called me out as a possible scum partner right after you put your own words inside a quote and made it look like Ice said it (if I was a mod I would have mod-killed you because it is easy for people to mis-understand who actually said it) you have no actual basis for making that accusation other than calling you out for something YOU did that was scummy. I don't care if you put "this is how it reads to me" before it, because I missed that when reading the first time, it was only later that I saw that but I don't even care you can call me whatever you want, doesn't mean it is actually true, cause I can assure you it isn't.

For the record, misquoting another player is not grounds for a modkill. It may not be considered "nice," but there is no rule that explicitly bans it. Enforcement of this code of "only quote correctly" is left to the players, NOT the mod

--jim

and this last part I will adress later when I get home, gotta run now.

The case on you is largely based on the obliviousness (and constant questioning) you seem to show towards the possibility of ICEninja being scum, which is particularly absurd given that multiple players in the game were making cases against ICEninja. Furthermore, I felt that in the midst of the ICEninja wagon, you were pushing a DavidParker based on bad reasons (as I explained above in Post 145). This is enough to vote for you right now.

[RobCapone]

Town David was weighing his options as

he hadn't had the time to make cases on Ice or Mute,

and seeing as other people were doing so,

Just going to say this is crap because you had the 2nd highest post count than anyone else in here, More than Javert and Ice who was making a case and defending against a case.

I was the one with the highest post count and I was able to manage to make a case and I typically don't do much posting when I am at work, so basically I post mostly in the morning and in the evening.

Not sure what it means, but to say you didn't have time to make a case, I am calling bullshit.


As for the roleclaim, very interesting indeed and I think it possibly confirms what i am trying to say, that there is a 2nd scum group, but we won't know that until we learn more about who he blocked. I believe his claim because there is no reason to out that kind of information unless he feels he has blocked scum.

[RobCapone]

Con - you asked an almost exact question that Javert already asked and I answered in my post 236

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2750767

[RobCapone]

@ edge, why did you make this comment - "I guess I am not doing a great job at keeping my alt hidden..."

I didn't see any other account besides petroleum jelly post and Javert claimed that account.

[RobCapone]

I did PM Jimfinn. Right after I made my last post. I voiced my concerns over asking for information about my role after a role claim. I await his response on both the answer to the question and the concerns about it.

From my own thinking (Jim hasn't picked up the PM yet as of this posting although you only have my word on that), Town can't be a "Group" . I'm town, if my ability blocks all town PRs if I target a townie, then I also block myself if I do so. So in the case of targeting town, my block, blocks my block if you see what I mean. Unless the Mod is going to specifically prevent that from happening, it would be a bastard role in the case of targeting a townie of any sort

@Edger, I blocked you. You made the short list of people, in my mind, who I wouldn't mind being in the endgame with if I went all the way that far in the game. I'll get more into that reasoning behind choosing you (and why I think ICE was telling the truth about 2 scum teams. Or at least why I think he truly believed there was 2 teams).

I just popped in to give a quick skim before work and see if I had any response from Jim. So I'll answer all concerns pointed at me, hopefully later this morning.

posting in your own words the clarification of your role from the MOD is not a killable offense, if you quote it word for word than yes but you can easily put it into your own words

[RobCapone]

I will wait for Con to respond to your question, but I would like to chime in with my own opinion on that question Mute

[RobCapone]

I can definitely see it as a possibility that Edge is scum with someone who is currently on my wagon (Rob or Conspiracy), although Edge has played fairly pro-town up until now, I can't say I have a strong town read on him.

so you are saying he has played pro-town but you don't have a strong town read on him?

this makes no sense, if he was playing pro-town than he would be a town read to you

[RobCapone]

I think david is scum period, I definitely see the relationship with Ice but I am not ruling out the possibility of there being a 2nd scum group and DP is scum with somebody else.

DP's reactions to this whole claim by Oso is just not sitting right with me either, seems scared.

[RobCapone]

David can you clear it up for me which one is your true feeling?

We've no reason to believe there is two scum factions at this point, but I don't see why ICE would claim there is two, if there was only going to be one night kill. Yadee yah, pointless speculation etc etc.

There's obviously 2 mafia groups I can say

So yeah, we are safe in assuming there is 2 mafia factions

[RobCapone]

you just seem so easily swayed is all I am saying

[RobCapone]

I'll add that if there is a 2 scum team of DP and Ice, there is no chance DP would bus ice especially because they would have talked about the 2 mafia group possibility.

Also meta can be changed DP, one of your scum games you don't bus your partner that I can tell so to say you always do is a mis-rep a little

[RobCapone]

this thread needs more participation from everyone

[RobCapone]

CS - you vote DP because of his comments about policy lynching

Jerbs points out multiple quotes of things Ice says that he finds scummy

it's not the same thing in my book and you look like you are trying to avoid the Ice wagon on day 1

FOS CS

[RobCapone]

2.)

I think my trouble with the DavidParker case is that I am having a hard time separating RobCapone’s case on DavidParker (which I think is

quite

bad) .

Can you explain to me exactly what was so bad about my case because you only commented on the early part of my case when it wasn't as focused. I made it much more clearer and you have since ignored it.
so please point out why my case that I have made, and not just the early part, the part I added later day 1 and anything I added to it day 2 as well.

[RobCapone]

Let's clear one thing magnus,

IF

there seems to be 2 scum groups, which it looks like there is

Javert is not cleared at all.

I'll even add that until we lynch edge and he flips confirm scum, oso technically isn't clear either

I am a skeptic by nature, I'm also ruined by playing at epic mafia, so sadly I beleive it's possible(although extremely doubtful) mafia could have NKd and made up this story

Do I beleive that has happened? No
Do I completely rule out the crazy thought? No

Oso and Javer earn credibility but I'd never say either is "confirmed" town

I do like Edge's post about Javert trying to guide Oso, nobody should bs telling oso how to use his role

It's the same as directing a cop, which isn't acceptable IMO either

[RobCapone]

Well shit I didn't even read the opening post

That indicates 2 killers right there

Btw DP your post, I'll comment more on later, reaks of scum thinking

[RobCapone]

1. you advocate ignoring looking for Ice's scum buddy to go look for the other scum team, letting him just run around killing people. WTF

2. the comment you made to CS, you basically accuse my post of discrediting 2 confirmed town people, however Oso or Javert are not confirmed shit. Oso maybe is but Javert definitly is not because there are 2 scum groups and you don't know if Javert belongs to the other or even if he bussed his own partner for instant town cred. this is failed logic to give ANYONE instant town cred on Day 2 and it is that kind of thinking that could town to lose very quick.

so my interpretations of scum thinking is strong, your hiding the fact that you are scum is weak

[RobCapone]

2. .............. I don't get what it is with this specific game and constant misrep;

I basically accuse your post of discrediting 2 confirmed town people?!?!?! No, I basically did not do that at all.

you ready for you to be busted on your lie?

I said -

the comment you made to CS

, you basically accuse my post of discrediting 2 confirmed town people,

Here is my post and ConSpiracy's response to it

Let's clear one thing magnus,

IF

there seems to be 2 scum groups, which it looks like there is

Javert is not cleared at all.

I'll even add that until we lynch edge and he flips confirm scum, oso technically isn't clear either

I am a skeptic by nature, I'm also ruined by playing at epic mafia, so sadly I beleive it's possible(although extremely doubtful) mafia could have NKd and made up this story

Do I beleive that has happened? No
Do I completely rule out the crazy thought? No

Oso and Javer earn credibility but I'd never say either is "confirmed" town

I do like Edge's post about Javert trying to guide Oso, nobody should bs telling oso how to use his role

It's the same as directing a cop, which isn't acceptable IMO either

I like this post.

and your response to conspiracy was

Oh so you like a post that discredits 2 very pro-town players at this point. Figures.

this my friend is you being busted as blatantly lying

/rest my case

[RobCapone]

and DP I am bullheaded, when I get my mind wrapped around something I am not likely to give it up. I already said I am dead set on getting you lynched because I am SO SURE you are scum. As I said earlier I am about as sure you are scum as Javert was about Ice.

The roleblock theory is still in my mind but there could be other reasons there was no 2nd kill but it is pure speculation so I'm not even going to go there.

If we all decide to lynch Edger today to test it out, I will go with that but nobody is really making a huge push for that yet, not even Oso so until than I am keeping my vote on you and so far your reactions have been exactly like I would expect scum to act so you just keep giving me more and more reasons and now I have caught you in a lie, the Lynch All Liars definitely applies to your case.

[RobCapone]

I am not sure what to think of his claim tbh, do I think it would be stupid for scum to fake claim like that day 2? yes I do but the fact that he isn't voting you is weird.

Right now I am not voting you because his roleblock on you could be he stopped a kill but it doesn't prove it 100% and when I look at both of you and DP, DP is by far the scummier of the 2 people up for a possible lynch.

[RobCapone]

Is it me or Amrun seem awfully vanilla with his reads?

And that comment that he said about Mute has me really scratching my head

[RobCapone]

unvote

something about these recent posts struck me as odd, I especially find it odd that Edge thinks Amrun's logic is pretty solid when Amrun makes no fucking sense at all

I need to re-read a bit to see if I want to stick with DP, but I may still vote DP so for all intensive purposes DP you are still L-1

[RobCapone]

Awfully vanilla meaning not really putting a strong scum read on anyone, like you are just playing it safe

On Rob: he's been going after DP so doggedly with, quite frankly, imperfect arguments, that if DP flips town he looks scummy. Even then it won't be FoS time, most likely, hough, since if it's a scum play it's a conspicuous scum play.

Mute: His D1 play came off slightly scummy to me but if you ask me why after I read 200 walls I couldn't tell you.

However what sticks out to me is that his d2 play seems significantly less conspicuous, like he and his scumbuddy talked these things over last night. However as I said this is not concrete and I wouldn't put an FoS on him yet.

Something about this bolded statement that doesn't sit well with me for some reason.

[RobCapone]

lol so that is what the expression is

[RobCapone]

It's pretty strange that you would unvote DP after you've been pushing for his lynch for two days straight.

my you are observant so clearly you must have seen that I indicated that some of these recent posts have me wanting to re-read

p. edit - no it isn't your comment that has me wanting to re-read

[RobCapone]

Off to work so let's end this day now

Vote David

[RobCapone]

what a quiet day

[RobCapone]

I figure that is it.

[RobCapone]

now I am going to be really bored, this is the last mafia game I have left, all other games are done and not sure if I am going to sign up for any after this one

trying to remember what i did before mafia lol

[RobCapone]

vote Edge

[RobCapone]

and let me clear this up, I'm sorry I was wrong about DP, but I assure you 100% I am dead on about Edge

so we need to hear from Oso about who he blocked and than let's bandwagon the hell out of Edge and get our 2nd scum of the game gone.

[RobCapone]

awesome now let's lynch Edge and get us some scum meat

[RobCapone]

no need to look into alternatives, Edge is today's lynch

all signs point to SCUM

[RobCapone]

Edge is scum cause I got a guilty on him last night

[RobCapone]

Yeah I definitely Fos Javert, especially if edge is in another scum group

[RobCapone]

I'm not going to speculate on anything til we know what mafia edge is in

[RobCapone]

Town will really be kicking ass after we lynch another scum

[RobCapone]

I am cop

If town I get innocent
If not I get guilty
He did throw in a comment that I'm not guaranteed to be sane but n1 I got innocent on Humble which confirmed I'm not insane or paranoid leaving normal or naive

I got guilty on edge so that eliminated naive.

[RobCapone]

Hmm Jerbs didn't vote
Who says there is a doc?
Yes setups have to be approved cause I beleive zachrulez bitched about the hoops he had to jump through

[RobCapone]

Btw 2 mafia groups (4 mafia) with a Cop, Doc, RB is pretty balanced IMO

[RobCapone]

So Javert, switch your vote please

[RobCapone]

RobCapone, I don't see how a lynch on Edgerobin

right now

makes us any better off than waiting for a few real-life days.

~

Mute, you avoided my question again.

Cause the game is about lynching scum and waiting real life days isn't going to teach us anything

Plus oso blocking you doesn't make you look good anyways

[RobCapone]

Im afraid of the other(s) PRs releasing information so let's end this day and not give mafia anymore info to work with

[RobCapone]

Besides it's the weekend, I doubt we get the 6 required votes before a couple of RL days

[RobCapone]

we are doing great but I suck at choosing investigations.

I didn't want to choose Javert because I felt he was obviously scum based on him being blocked and both kills failed. My inno last night was amrun, I can't tell you why chose him but just something about his post yesterday bugged me it felt like he was bussing Edge since I got a guilty.

Anyway I want everyone to post their thoughts but I think lynching Javert is the best way to go or am I wrong?

[RobCapone]

yeah lynch me what a great idea

1. Humble was stabbed and Amrun was shot so clearly I could not be part of Both mafia groups if that is what oso is trying to imply
2. I felt no need to investigate Javert because of Oso's block pretty much confirms Javert is scum, I went with somebody that I thought was suspicious
3. I am what I said I am, I am the cop

with that said

vote Javert

magnus, just because Javert seems "pro-town" doesn't make him clear, especially with 2 mafia groups. I can point to a game where chesskid had the biggest pro-town vibe in the game and he was scum and single handily won the game because nobody thought he was scum AND that game was also a 2 mafia group game. Javert was blocked and both groups kills failed

I apologize for investigating the wrong people, but I am not the lynch for today.

Also we still have the edge and Javet is claiming just a VT, so he definitely is the lynch for today and anyone else at this point is just FAIL

[RobCapone]

*ebwop

this comment should actually say

Javert was blocked and both groups kills failed so it makes more sense that he is scum.


Also remember Javert had to have his arm twisted to vote yesteday and last night there was a gun kill

Gun mafia = Javert and Edgerobin
Knifemafia = IceNinja and I guess Prox since he was blocked last night.

[RobCapone]

Oh snap. Well that is obviously something to go on.

VOTE: edgerobin

I don't see what reason you would have to lie. If edge flips town, obviously, you're next. I had a town read on you previously, though.

This basically confirms two mafia groups as well.

FoS Javert after edge.

Fwiw this was the post that just had me feeling amrun was going to get on the wagon early, i have seen scum do this kind if thing before, I even used this tactic in a game so if anyone did VCA I'd look pro town.
Clearly I was wrong.

[RobCapone]

1. I don't beleive I hinted at all about humble cause I had no need to since he was dead and didn't want to tip my hand
2. Because I stood by my case on DP and was sure he was scum
3. Nobody was going to listen to me after I messed up with DP lynch
4. Wanted to confirm that a block resulted in scum, no need to investigate you since edge flipped scum, that confirmed you were most likely scum so I wanted to find the 4th scum. I thought about investigating u but thought you would be lynched regardless
5. It matters cause when you have 9 people and your choices are a VT or a claimed cop you lynch the VT, especially when he was blocked the night there were no kills
6. If you flip town, I'd be fucking amazed but sure I'll play your game, if you flip town and I don't get a guilty tonight, feel free to lynch me but tonight I'll be sure to investigate prox to confirm without a doubt if he is scum or not

[RobCapone]

Mass claim is a scum move anyway

odds are javert and prox are last scum, you don't mass claim with 9 alive and town has the edge

mass claim if ever used is more in Mylo or lylo which we are in neither of those right now

[RobCapone]

Well as the cop I'm never going to agree to be lynched outright

you are making far to many assumptions IMO

The simplest answer is usually the best

You were blocked, no gun or knife kill
I got guilty on edge, you were reluctant to vote him
last night you were not blocked and we have a gun kill

if town decides to lynch me tomorrow, that's on them but TODAY

you or prox have to be lynched.

Side note with a little wifom thrown in

if I was scum fake claiming cop I would not say I got innocent on the 2 dead people, I would claim inno on people still alive to get them on my side, it's something I learned from epic mafia.

But if you want to lynch me today go right ahead but if you actually think it through javert or prox makes the most sense because they both were blocked and there was a lack of a kill

[RobCapone]

And the only game I played where there was a mass claim suggested, it was suggested by scum

[RobCapone]

There was no gurantee edge was going to be lynched , you voted conspiracy

if I had not claimed and I pushed a lynch on edge and you pushed a lynch on conspiracy who would town listen to?

You who got knife mafia or me who got a VT

I claimed cause I wanted to ensure we lynched confirmed scum

your reasons for not voting him could be lies, who knows

I do know that on a night that 2 deaths failed, 1 was a doc save by the doc admitting it
and the other has to be oso's block or a NK

if it was a NK it could be mafia trying to setup somebody but that just doesn't make sense from a mafia standpoint but can easily be proved with your lynch

you will flip scum or VT and with town ahead your lynch makes 100 times more sense than lynching the cop who has already produced a guilty result.

[RobCapone]

Yeah yawn at the person who makes more sense than you do

[RobCapone]

As cop, which I beleive is a first for me on MS
I typically go after the people I feel are blending in or are trying to seem too town

n1 - I wasn't investigating Javert cause he just caught scum, not wasting an investigation on DP cause I don't investigate people I'm convinced are scum cause I can make a case on him also if I pushed hard for his lynch and he flipped town than I felt good that mafia wouldn't NK me

n2 - had to determine if Oso's block was legit

n3 - I felt it was stupid to investigate javert because him being blocked was confirmation that he was scum so I had to go after someone else. As I pointed out, amrun's post seemed like he wanted in on the wagon early

When there is a no kill from both groups and we now know there is a doc, why was the 2nd kill unsuccessful?

Mafia NK or mafia blocked

If you are mafia you are stupid to NK with that many townies alive, mafia should almost never NK early in a game anyway, but that is a theory discussion for afterwards

javert is today's lynch IMO


P. Edit - using that same theory javert could have bussed ice day 1 for town cred

fake claiming cop with a guilty is basically suicide for mafia and would be incredibly stupid day 3 withso many townies alive but I see where you could get that.

You blocking Javert is damning for him too

lynch him, if he flips town RB me and lynch me tomorrow

[RobCapone]

I make plenty of sense actually

I didn't investigate oso cause I felt we would learn more from an edge investigation instead of an oso investigation

but assume I investigated oso and later role claimed people would ask me why I investigated oso and not edge

either way somebody is going to play that game

[RobCapone]

This is my first game as a pro-town cop

I didn't investigate Javert cause I honestly didn't think he was scum at the end of the day

I said I felt investigating edge would give us more info than oso, oso claimed with no pressure, that is extremely rare as scum so o beleived he was town

Just cause you thought amrun was town doesn't mean I thought he was town, as pointed out his comment struck me as odd and I chose to investigate him.

[RobCapone]

@rob: No. You investigate oso, because Oso could still be lying and/or bussing.

You're not making any sense because I haven't seen a sensible case why Javert is likely scum. You are just claiming that Javert HAD to be blocked for the kills to fail. But that's clearly not true. So why is Javert scum?


(Checked again, wording is such that I make the player live if they would have died, so yeah, I can block all kills if they target the same person, definitely.)

But I felt his claim was beleivable
I felt edge's reaction to oso's claimed to be blocked as more evidence edge could be scum
Javert was blocked and 0 kills happened (on phone so going off memory) so that means doc saved and scum blocked. There is nothing that shows why 2 kills failed

@CS - go back and read prox's posts he was the one who claimed ice was l-1 way early, that struck me as odd so could be a connection between them

[RobCapone]

Possible I guess but javert could have actually been blocked and again his resistance to vote edge only makes him look worse

other things that make him look bad

trying to direct oso's block by telling him to block mute
the day he was blocked he comes out guns blazing voting and FOSing people
his little comment about being afraid he was going to be lynched as town seems awfully fake too

his play is very suspicious to me

if he is just a VT we aren't losing anything

you lynch me you lose the cop ( I know I can't make people beleive me but it's the truth)

if oso feels he hasto block me tonight , so be it but Javert's actions this game make no sense at all

[RobCapone]

Except I am cop not mafia. True story

[RobCapone]

Oso the fact you are so against Javert's lynch is very odd and advocating the lynch of the cop is even stranger

[RobCapone]

No you are advocating lynching the cop

even if I were scum, which I'm not, I'm not the lynch for today cause you can block me

lynch javert or prox, I'd prefer javert but whatever you decide is fine.

If I get lynched it will be the most epic fail lynch I have ever seen

[RobCapone]

I'm saying I can be blocked if oso thinks I am scum, I can't do anything else to prove I am cop other than what I have been doing which is answering questions with the truth.

But I'll repeat lynching the cop today is the worst possible move.

[RobCapone]

Oso, you see no scenario where I am telling the truth?

[RobCapone]

@RobCapone.

No, I can't. Things are lining up too conveniently for my taste in regards to your claim. Had either of your innocents been in the pool of currently living players, I wouldn't be having these bad thoughts about your claim. Had you investigated me, Javert or either of the lurkers (even if the person you investigated out of those four ended up dead), I wouldn't be having bad thoughts about your claim.

If you are town, then you have had about the worst luck of any Cop player I've ever seen. That is the only scenario I can see you as town at the moment....plain bad luck.

sadly at end game you will see that I did just have horrible luck

I know we still have 3 people not claimed yet but a Cop/doc/RB with 2 mafia groups is actually balanced.

only issue I have is your role I have never heard of before in all of the sites I play mafia and the doctor twist I have never heard of either, Jim clearly has gotten creative

[RobCapone]

Jerbs, zito would not allow it if it wasn't legal

side note I wish Jim would have answered the question about prox's prod

[RobCapone]

Since we are in a holding pattern I'll just urge town to let me live one more night to hopefully get a guilty, I know I have had shitty luck but I am telling the truth.

Like I said earlier, if I was scum fake claiming, would I really claim innocent on a dead guy? yea I know this is wifom but honestly scum would look more credible claiming inno on someone alive

plus you suggest I bussed my partner (gun mafia) and claimed inno on my night kill, no scum who had any sense whatsoever would be that dumb.

In a 2 mafia team bussing your partner early is also suicide and makes no sense.

Also question for the doc, why did it take you multiple times to post your role and restrictions? When I claimed I read my entire role pm and summarized it, you kept changing your story. I'm not saying you aren't the doc because in this setup doc makes sense, but you do lose credibility points if you are alive in lylo IMO.

[RobCapone]

Also question for the doc, why did it take you multiple times to post your role and restrictions? When I claimed I read my entire role pm and summarized it, you kept changing your story. I'm not saying you aren't the doc because in this setup doc makes sense, but you do lose credibility points if you are alive in lylo IMO.

Because I had originally misunderstood.
When I read your arguments, I wanted to check my role to clarify whether I lost the power to protect after a successful protection, or the night after a successful protection (the difference being whether or not I could save someone from 2 kills in one night), upon re-reading my role pm to check this clarification, I noticed that my previous understanding (that I lost the power forever after a successful protection) was actually incorrect, and a more thorough reading of my role pm indicated that I could protect again after only one night of uselessness.

Also, fun fact: liars are usually more certain of their story than people telling the truth. Cause the liar picks his story and sticks with it, while the truth teller tries to recount events from memory.
Anyway, I lose credibility if I'm alive in lylo by virtue of my role regardless.

Like I said earlier, if I was scum fake claiming, would I really claim innocent on a dead guy? yea I know this is wifom but honestly scum would look more credible claiming inno on someone alive

You don't know who the last scum is, you could accidentally claim an innocent on him unless you know his flip for sure.

1. If there were anything you were unclear about your role you would have addressed that pre-game when you got your role pm
2. Also you should post the best you can without quoting you role PM, there should be no going back a 2nd and 3rd time to re-clarify
3. are you kidding me about your fun fact? you realize why police ask the suspect to tell their story multiple times, it's to see if it changes at all.

Inconsistencies in the Story: In different places and times, the story is more likely to change every single time it is discussed. He will forget a word, add something completely new, or remove something that he had previously mentioned. Regardless of the type of inconsistency, it shows he is lying.

this was taken from a website when i googled lying right now.

Also another note a person who is often lying wants to change subjects and take attention off of his lie, I am not doing that either because i am not lying. I want to discuss the matter till I am blue in the face to prove I am not lying.

I have provided everything I know about my role and I have explained my reasoning for investigating the person I investigated and now I am really suspicious of Oso because he has the most town cred right now and I have never even heard of his role, and the more I think of it, i don't think his role would even pass the review process because it is too powerful of a town role. a RB that can block an entire faction's night kill?

doesn't add up to me, but like I said a cop/doc/RB setup with 2 mafia groups does make sense so idk

all I do know is lynching me WILL result in the loss of the cop so if that is what you guys decide to do, you better have a gameplan for what to do next because without a cop, i feel town will be sunk.

[RobCapone]

Sorry I forgot my period, the part about oso should have been a new sentence

[RobCapone]

So you advocate lynching the cop over the VT?

Plus me being knife mafia would go against oso's claim that I'm gun mafia bussing edge

I know my investigations look bad, humble n1 was a bad choice but you seriously read Amrun's posts yesterday and honestly say ge doesn't look like he is trying to earn town cred by voting early on the wagon

town needs to lynch Javert first, his death will teach us more about that night he was blocked than lynching me

if he flips town AND I don't have a guilty tomorrow, feel free to lynch me

[RobCapone]

Oso. Like I said the cop/doc/RB combination makes sense with 2 scum groups in terms of balance

your role of blocking an entire mafia night kill I have never heard of in my 2 years of playing

I never doubted your claim for a minute until today when you swear I'm scum and you put javert 3rd on your list as possible lynch targets

lynching him will eliminate a bunch of possible reasons why both kills failed

lynch me will result in a PR dead and leaving town looking at you for pushing for the cop's lynch.

[RobCapone]

I'm willing to do anything to prove I'm cop, if there was something I could do or say to probe it I would

I can't post my role Pm or I'll be mod killed so not sure what else to do

but when we have a mislynch available the better play is the claimed VT who was blocked and no kills happend

[RobCapone]

ok actually the missing night kills with prox being MIA could make sense but I would think that the mod would want to replace a completely inactive mafia member

not really sure what to think about him right now

but missing knife cause of MIA prox and missing gun kill because of Doc kill would clear javert, but it is still speculation, I could go with a Prox lynch also but still would rather Javert because the night of his block is the most suspicious of all nights

it doesn't look like we are going to hear from CS until the weekend by reading his last post so we will be waiting a few days

[RobCapone]

sadly I like that write up Javert

[RobCapone]

just saw mod is looking for a replacement for I would assume Prox

[RobCapone]

The only way we are both town, by my way of thinking, is if the remaining gunner picked up enough out the last part of Day 3 to be reasonably sure that Amrun would be your investigation target over say me or Javert so they killed Amrun hoping that this exact situation would come up.

this is not the only way we are both town btw

Amrun could be targeted because he was saying that Edge and Javert were a scum team and was pushing Javert really hard

A. Amrun was killed to make Javert look like scum
B. Javert is scum and he killed Amrun


to imply that the ONLY way we both can be town is that mafia figured out somehow who I was going to investigate and killed them makes no sense, expecially based on the reactions of the remaining town when I told everyone I investigated Amrun.

Nobody thought I was going to investigate Amrun, and tbh it doesn't make sense to anyone other than myself why I investigated him.

I already told you that Amrun's posts after I claimed cop with guilty read me the wrong way.

you want to know what other person I was thinking of investigating? ConSpiracy

want to know why? because of this post by him

VOTE: Edge
Well, this gets easier and easier.

yes that post alone, regardless of what he said afterwards had me deciding between Amrun or CS

I was never going to investigate Javert because I felt his being blocked and lack of 2 kills could only be explained by doc save and your role block (prox not submitting a nk given he is inactive now of course adds a 3rd option but it wasn't thought of during the night phase OR during the previous day phase)

I wasn't going to investigate you because I believed your claim
Prox - I forgot was even playing
Jerbs - I have played with before as scum and I don't see him doing in this game anything that he did in that game
manut - I only really suspected him when I thought DP was scum, since he wasn't I felt he was null read
Mute - he was also on my radar for possible scum but I felt the actions of Amrun and CS needed to be followed up with.

without knowing where I learned to play you will never understand my mentality of playing.

[RobCapone]

@ Shatterd we are in mass claim, can you atleast claim now and than finish reading?

[RobCapone]

at this point I am spent trying to defend myself, I don't care what anyone does. In the end it will be proven I am telling the truth and town will go down as epic fail for lynching the cop.

unvote javert, vote shattered

[RobCapone]

frustrated yes, but I am not quitting.

I am voting for prox or javert, prox being mia causing no knife kills makes plenty of sense to me

I realize my bad luck makes me look like my claim is fake but it isn't and a 2 mafia group with ONLY a role blocker and a doc, make no sense for balance

cop/doc/RB makes plenty of sense for balanc.

I have answered every question and posted my reasoning for my investigations, it comes down to you believe me or you don't.

[RobCapone]

There we go, mass claim is over

[RobCapone]

Well, I'm caught up now.

The obvious lynch (to me) for today is RobCapone.

Vote: RobCapone

Why, you ask?

a) He is flailing. Very scumlike, actually.
2) He hasn't once complained about my presence in the game (we have history).
D) He's scum. I've got a gut feeling.

Who's with me?

1. actually I haven't flailed at all
2. you just fucking got here and I am letting you catch up, plus I am voting for you already so what's your point?
3. that's great bro but based on the setup my role makes the most sense as being legit, and guess what? I am legit.

the info Conspiracy laid out makes the most sense too but the fact that your playerspot was inactive for 2 night phases and for 2 night phases we had no knife kill, the evidence is more damning against you.

[RobCapone]

tomorrow is my birfday so I won't be online tomorrow

[RobCapone]

More important question to SV

if I am scum and magnus is scum, how would a setup with 2 mafia groups and 1 town PR be approved?

[RobCapone]

FYI re-read magnus's posts day 1 and his vote on ice at the end of the day

I'm thinking CS may be on to something.

[RobCapone]

@Oso: I didn't say he was effective as scum, just that he's scum.

@RC: I have no idea. I suck at balance and setup stuffs.

well here I will tell you

there is no way it is balanced and based on setup rules pointed out by CS, the only role claimed that has to be in this game is mine, since it is the only normal role and there has to be one normal role.

the other 2 roles are not anywhere close to normal.

[RobCapone]

I was trying to stay away from this site but this game is so much fun right now

[RobCapone]

if you can block the entire mafia nk, that isn't a normal mafia role and normal mafia roles can;t have flavor names.

Assume oso is scum

night 1 - no kill and say he blocked edger, nothing is proved and oso gets town cred
night 2 - no kill or kill stopped by doc and say he blocked javert, sets javert up for possible lynch and explains him being alive as doc save
night 3 - went doc hunting since he felt safe he would not be investigated, and since I got inno on the dead guy used that to discredit me

now I am trying to go through my head and explain magnus as scum and I can't explain how unless magnus is gun cop, but if magnus was mafia than how is myself and oso alive.

tbh oso makes more sense out of the 2 as scum, especially with the instant town cred he earned once I proved edger was scum.

[RobCapone]

ebwop - tried to kill javert and doc saved him night 1 also is a possibility

[RobCapone]

but today's lynch of magnus isn't better than a SV lynch because what if magnus is the doc and oso is scum?

[RobCapone]

Rob and SV

, why lynching someone who is (in your eyes) high likely to be scum when we can 100% lynch scum either today or tomorrow?

I don't understand this question. Can you put it into English for me, please?

Thanks, ever so.

Also: I don't do setup speculation. It's scummy, and there's no place for it. Outguessing the mod is Not Mafia.

Normally I'd agree but where we are at in the game and using rules provided by the site for a mini -normal game, the 3 claimed roles don't meet the requirements so we are either in an invalid game or someone is lying

I know papa zito would not allow an invalid setup, I know the approval process is detailed, so this isn't out-guess the mod, it's which person is lying. Oso or magnus

and you saying both magnus and I are scum is trying to put a square peg into a round hole, it will never fit

[RobCapone]

Well you are on the hot seat with 3 votes so

1. Explain your process of elimination that leads to me being scum
2. Give your thoughts on how the night kills could have worked, given what you have read and what people have claimed

clearly you should be able to explain both of these in a way that makes sense, that there are 2 Mafia groups with only 1 town power role

[RobCapone]

way to avoid my questions

[RobCapone]

@ SV, I'll add a 3rd question for you to ignore

how did you go from "gut feeling I'm scum" to "poe(process of elimination) I'm scum"?

[RobCapone]

Now, I need to figure out who to investigate, too many people I don't trust.

[RobCapone]

Now, I need to figure out who to investigate, too many people I don't trust.

Uhm, Javert? >_>

if he is being blocked wouldn't that be kind of stupid?

[RobCapone]

Bah humbug

[RobCapone]

yay go town

[RobCapone]

no lie from the QT

I wil laugh if jerbs is scum, nobody pays any attention to him

[RobCapone]

I liked this game

me too except next time I will do better investigatingz

[RobCapone]

I still don't get how this was a valid setup anyway but whatever, GG

[RobCapone]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p2774918

this post is what made me think jerbs was scum, I just 2nd guessed myself

[RobCapone]

can someone post the mafia QTs?

[RobCapone]

1. The 2 scum team was obvious from the opening post actually, nobody read it
2. Scum day talk isn't giving anything away or breaking the game
3. The 1 NK immunity did add balance

but I still feel the normal setup rules were not followed but whatever, it's not the Mod's fault, I blame the review board for letting it through

regular RB, Doc, cop = balance

RB who stops a whole teams NK = not fair ever

[RobCapone]

Knife mafia QT I'd imagine was quiet