Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[LimMePls]

hi guys
so, a few questions for you all:
1) how did you start playing mafia?
2) Are you better as scum, or town? Why?
3) What are your thoughts on the current setup?

1) I started playing mafia on a WoW forum board, when they stopped I moved to a Diablo forum board untill I discovered MS.net a few months ago and finally joined a game.
2) Scum. I tend to play aggresivly and that got me lynched a couple of times when I was the cop or the doc.
3) I usually only play in themed games because I like those setups and I'm glad I was in time to join this one. The theme sounds really interesting. Can't really say more because I only know my role and I have no clue what others might have. Well some clue maybe given it's set in the Cold War

Hey Sathoris! Glad to see you kept the avatar you used during my game, that avatar is awesome.

Vote: Sathoris

because he is crazy good at playing SK Sheriff with a jailkeeping ability and dayshots. Trust me on this one.

1)same diablo forum Sathoris is mentioning. Read the wiki here for some ideas, and then started playing here.
2)My record indicates scum. I feel like it is easier to ACT town than to BE town. This probably says something crazy f*cked up about me psychologically.
3)This question bothers me. I'm unclear what about the setup other than our own roles you are referring to. If it's just our own roles, this question is dangerously close to massive role fishing.

@Furc: What did you expect question 1 to add to the game? What did you expect from question 3?

[LimMePls]

Can we get poisonivy lynched already?

Maybe. I'm starting to like this line of questioning. Also, question 3 is now making sense to me.

[LimMePls]

^^This.

Unvote
Vote: poison ivy

[LimMePls]

This referred to bvoigt's post.

[LimMePls]

Hm, the problem with the ivy wagon is that as scum her PM should have her against peaceful players, not against Americans or soviets so her assuming that the set-up is Americans vs soviets makes me honestly think she just didn't read it all that closely

Look at the rules post, though:

[4] A possible mafia win condition is: "You win when only Soviet players remain alive or nothing can prevent this"

Well I think that was an example, the actual win cons (unless there are various non-conflicting ones which doesn't make a lot of sense) are about peace and war, not nationality.

Really? Is that what the actual scum win conditions are?

[LimMePls]

PI wagon is still awesome. ThAd isn't bad either.

[LimMePls]

ThAdmiral however has been giving me bad vibes throughout. Dont actually know why

Maybe because of recent statements from other players expressing negative opinions of you, you figure he's an easy counterwagon to yours? Seriously people, look at this quote. This is just AWFUL.

[LimMePls]

I can tell this is going to be a frustrating game.

Good wagons: jmj, rat, gonno with a remainder of Thad
Bad wagons: people who are being wagoned.

New scummiest quote in the game award goes to this gem:

the last time i saw someone do this they turned out to be scum. im not sayin', im just sayin'...

I dont really love a Thad wagon, but its a perfectly acceptable spot to throw up a wagon, especially compared to PI and GW ones which I think are both on town. Jmj, rat or gonno I would be estatic if wagons showed up on right now.

Why is PI town? Because the wagon started from RQS and you don't like RQS?

[LimMePls]

Sorry guys, I've been pretty disinterested in mafia lately. Why haven't we lynched PI yet?

[LimMePls]

You have an awful amount of posting in other games to be "disinterested in mafia lately". This comment is suspicious.

Ludicrously untrue. I've been sick and not posting very much in all of my games. I even just got quick lynched in a mini on D1 over it. Everyone feel free to verify this yourself. Why are you lying Scott?

[LimMePls]

Monitoring the thread? I just checked all my games before bed!

And this is now the dumbest conversation I've ever been involved in during a mafia game.

[LimMePls]

Is anyone open to a nameclaim? Do you feel scum have fake nameclaims?

Since both Americans and Russians are good/bad, why would scum need fake claims? How in ANY way could a name claim help town?

[LimMePls]

I don't think it'd be pointless, I think it'd be blatantly pro-scum. All it would do is help the scum narrow down who they think the PRs are. Again, the question is, what possible good would it do the town?

[LimMePls]

@LlamaFluff: If you could pick one of those for death, which would it be and exactly why? I've got a pretty decent town read on you, so I'm open to your persuasion.

[LimMePls]

llamafluff, i agree with the sentiment, but what are your reasons for suspecting those players, gonnano specifically?

"I agree with you, but I have no idea why you suspect them, so why is that?"

Scum.

[LimMePls]

Name claim is awful and only helps scum as others have mentioned.

LMP is participating more unprovoked. I find that the pop-in when mentioned after a few days of no activity is a good scum-tell as it shows that someone is monitoring the thread but not participating. That is much more interesting/scummy than just lurking. But usually scum go back into hiding, especially since nobody agreed with me it would have been a great opportunity to do that. Back to rat.

Unvote
Vote: pappums rat

Or it was just a complete coincidence that we were both posting at the same time. But whatever.

[LimMePls]

Mod, could we get a prod on Fuzzy, Sathrois, and Ivy, please?

Things that are bolded are people I want to hear from. I'd like a new post from Sathrois, Ivy, Fuzzy, and BotS. I'd like Sathrois, Ghost, jmj, bvoigt, Fuzzy, XScorp, LynchMePls, and BotS to justify their votes (or lack thereof) at this point. Most of these people voted once during the beginning of the game and haven't moved it. Ivy's vote in particular is kind of a sketchy one because it appears she began the game by voting Lowell on an RVS basis, but has apparently decided to park it there in spite of being arguably the number one topic of the game's discussion so far.

Poison Ivy is scum. Why exactly do I have to justify my vote anyways? Because I made it a long time ago? You yourself said the game is slow. Nothing has changed my opinion on who should be lynched.

[LimMePls]

llamafluff, i agree with the sentiment, but what are your reasons for suspecting those players, gonnano specifically?

"I agree with you, but I have no idea why you suspect them, so why is that?"

Scum.

qft.

i honestly dont see why furcolow hasnt been lynched yet. iyam he is so obvscum it isnt even funny.

He honestly isn't.

Unless he's improved out of sight he is playing his town meat.

Please describe his town and scum metas (as you see them) and why you feel this game is the town and not scum. Bonus points for links to games you feel particularly back up your opinion.

[LimMePls]

@LynchMe: Rivertown was a game I just finished with furc and he reads pretty much the same in here. I admit I haven't seen his scum meta, though.

I know that was directed at Thad, but I feel the need to chime in since I have a leaning-town-read on furc, and Thad was in that game as well.

A meta read from a sample size of 1 is less than worthless. For 1, you have no idea if that is how he behaves ONLY when town/scum, and for another, people have anomalies in their play. Just because Furc actedthis way in a game you saw him in, and he was town in that game does NOT mean that whenever he acts that way he is town.

Also, as you point out in your response, this question is directed at ThAd, and your eagerness to jump in and defend his premise (with terrible logic to boot) is noted.

[LimMePls]

Thanks ThAd. I'll check those games out.

(there are probably better scum examples as he got lynched day 1 in both of these - maybe ask furculow for some games)

Asking him for those games wouldn't justify YOUR meta read of him.

[LimMePls]

llamafluff, i agree with the sentiment, but what are your reasons for suspecting those players, gonnano specifically?

"I agree with you, but I have no idea why you suspect them, so why is that?"

Scum.

qft.

i honestly dont see why furcolow hasnt been lynched yet. iyam he is so obvscum it isnt even funny.

Possibly because any good player realizes I AM VERY EASY TO READ, because I only scumhunt as town. I find it very, very difficult to fake scumhunting when I know who the scum are. How can I wagon someone I know is innocent? It's just unnatural to me.

The fact that you know this and acknowledge it makes it worthless.

[LimMePls]

1) What purpose is there to telling us you plan on reading everyone in ISO? It just you stating "oh i'm gonna do some SRS BUSINESS scum hunting... soon"
2) What is there actually to gain from an early mass-player iso on day 1 when we haven't seen a flip or even seen a claim?!??!!?!?!?

Basically. There is no reason to be doing mass iso's at this point in the game. IT doesn't help you. It doesn't help town. We need conciseness at this point and people being opinionated, not huge wall posts commenting on every post of every player.

The fact you felt the need to state you plan on doing these mass iso's seems scummy as if you are trying to earn town points, but will lurk as long as possible, and at the same time your worried about how you are perceived by town since you felt the need to state you will be doing these iso's when you can just do them without the comment.


I dunno, but to me this post just reeks of scum.

I agree with DP here. Not to mention doing mass ISO after finishing a reread on D1 seems completely illogical all on its own. You just reread, with everyone posting in context. What would you discover by then ISOing? Maybe later in the game I could see this, but I think DP's on to something. This is just a way for you to say "I'm going to continue lurking, but I'm going to say I'm doing all this time consuming stuff so it doesn't look like I'm lurking".

[LimMePls]

jmj wagon is a go people. Lots of people are all basically nodding in agreement, without actually voting.

Vote: jmj

[LimMePls]

Just finished re-read/skim. ThAd is also scum. I'd be perfectly happy to lynch him as well. I'll post a case if people need it, but it's pretty obvious.

Our lynch today should be one of jmj or ThAd. Any other wagons that form (or get sudden boosts from nowhere) in the interim without REALLY good justification are going to look to me like counter wagons.

TOWN
LlamaFluff
nachomma8
Ghostwriter
RedCoyote
EGL
bvoigt
Artem
Lowell
Sathrois
DavidParker
Stephoscope
InflatablePie
Beasts of the Sea
XScorpion
Scott Brosius
Furcolow
Fuzzyman
PoisonIvy
smargaret
pappums rat
gonnano
ThAdmiral
jmj3000
SCUM

[LimMePls]

In #356, gonnano devotes an entire wall to defending himself, with almost no scumhunting. He seems to be focusing on survival rather than lynching scum. I want to see godfather-PI dead today, but he is also a good lynch.

PoisonIvy going MIA when pressure is put on her is scummy

How so? Lurking is frustrating, but not an alignment tell IMO.

I don't like the jmj wagon at all. What exactly is wrong with reading people in ISO? I've been making a list of my reads, and found it very useful.

Read his entire iso. Pay particular attention to the last few posts. Then see if your question still makes sense.

[LimMePls]

ThAd case:

ISO 0 - No scum hunting, safe statements that do nothing, and sheeping PI vote.
ISO 1 - More of the same, except the sheeping vote.
ISO 2 - Furcolow is town statement (becomes relevant below). "Good pick up" about GW's "I've never lost as scum" statement, even though it was obviously a joke. GW knows there own record, they would have no reason to lie about this.
ISO 3

Any groups with the ability to talk at night may for so for another 24 hours.[/b][/size]

Mafia could daytalk for 24 hours into day one it seems.

Woah, missed this.

This makes furculow look bad. Very bad.

vote: furculow

This reaction looks faked to me. Hoping for an easy bandwagon on Furc here. Completely contradicts his town read on Furc to this point.

ISO 4 - Weak justification for complete flip on Furc-town.
ISO 5

In other news I felt a lot happier voting poisonivy. Fruc seems to be reacting as a town would in his situation.

vote: poisonivy

Reads "The Furc wagon is not going to take off like I predicted it would. Let me get back on the other bandwagon I was riding." Also note that we still have 0 scum hunting from ThAd. Every vote he has cast has been a bandwagon. The only scum read that he's given was "I'm actually getting scum tingles from smargret." in ISO 2, which was not followed up on AT ALL.

ISO 6-8 - ThAd completely clams up under scrutiny.
ISO 9 - Not much to see here. Continues useless gonanno discussion. Thumbs up my anti-PI observation.
ISO 10 - This should be noted when we have a ThAd flip. bvoigt has done the "why" question on ThAd twice now. If ThAd flips scum, bvoigt needs a looking at.

Now, for some context real quick, gonanno and ThAd have been having a back and forth here about a pretty irrelevant topic. Then we get this from gonanno:

It is if you are town.

Actually, I believe the pro-town move in this situation would be for Furcolow to try to find scum, not to just push any wagon that isn't his. Especially since we've still got weeks until the deadline.

@bvoigt: You have a point that scum would most likely know about the daytalk, but then again scum would also be less likely to bring the subject up. I still think it's all a wash in terms of being a tell.

I don't particularly object to a ThAdmiral wagon right now, but I'd like to see what exactly people are finding so scummy about him before I buy in. What vague posts or hints at inside information has he made?

Note that gonanno doesn't object to a ThAd wagon, BUT (there's always a but) he doesn't know why people want the ThAd wagon. All of the talk about scum ThAd to this point had been really vague. With this in mind, returning to our ISO:

ISO 11

UNVOTE:

I'm having second thoughts about the PI wagon -- it's taken off a little too quickly for my tastes. I still think PI seems scummy, but in the past my scum reads have been pretty terrible, so I'm going to play this one by the numbers.

Furcolow is steadily becoming more and more scummy to me: the "meta" appraisal of PI, the whole RQS deal... and this.

I am going to put my vote on the first alphabetically to have not posted.

What?! It's WAY too early in the game to say who's a lurker and who just had a busy couple of days IRL. You're just trying to substitute a policy vote for actual scumhunting.

Scum post: 1. unvotes (inexplicably); 2. smears Furcolow; and 3. doesn't vote Furcolow?! . If PI is still scummy, but Furculow is rising, why not vote him? I don't like the unvote for obvious reasons, as PI isn't really in danger of being lynched soonish, so why the bail? Possible PI scum buddy here.

Good analysis.
I think goanna is a good person to look at tomorrow.

He thinks he's good for tomorrow? Why tomorrow? Notice the subtle distancing that is going on between ThAd and gonanno. Each one thinks the other one COULD be a good wagon, or should be a wagon TOMORROW, but neither will vote the other, or push the other in any meaningful way. Why do they feel this way about each other? Nothing they've said has been earth shattering, all they've really done is squabble over whether Furc voting the only other wagon is scummy. Speaking of pushing people in a meaningful way, I still don't think to this point in ThAd's ISO you can find a single statement that I would consider scum hunting. Not 1.

[quote[quo]te="Beasts of the Sea"]

unvote
vote furcolow

i agree that his 3rd question would be more informative to scum than town, and his comment about day talking scum is bad.

This vote is terrible. Did you not think of this when you were answering the questions the first time through or is this just a bad bandwagon vote?
[/quote]
This is also a good pick up.

You are looking pretty good in my eyes BotS.

Vote: GhostWriter

Not liking him defending Rat (very heavily, too). And I also don't like that we're almost 10 pages in and he doesn't even have a vote down. Aside from defending Rat, his ISO consists of IoA and questions that go nowhere. Do not like.

First of all: whatsup IPman.

Second of all: srsly? Ghostwriter hasn't voted anyone. That is bad.

My lack of placing a vote is due to the fact that both the lead wagons are on two players who are clearly VI's.

That does not excuse you from not voting anyone at all. You haven't even said you are

suspicious

of anyone yet.

vote: ghostwriter

[/quote]

I love the irony. Also, still not a single non wagon vote from ThAd (he is sheeping IP here).

ISO 12 - Interesting reaction to IP, someone he was trying to buddy up to.
ISO 13 - Can't make a convincing argument in response to LF about ThAd wagon. Only "of course it's good, check him out". Which is hilarious given his "WHY!?" anytime someone votes him.
ISO 14 - Mod message post.
ISO 15 - "Stop being a drama queen" directed at PI. Ya, ThAd is quite the scum hunter.
ISO 16 - Challenges LF's "boatload of towntells" in regards GW. Nothing else. STILL NO SCUM HUNTING FOR THAD.
ISO 17 - Continues the distancing to gonanno. But note the inconsistancy. Now gonanno is a good wagon for today, not tomorrow. Still no gonanno vote.
ISO 18 - Just quick useless responses. Nothing trying to move the game forward at all.
ISO 19 - More trying to buddy IP. More being generally useless.
ISO 20 - EVEN FURC REALIZES HE IS SCUM.
ISO 21 - First post I think could genuinely be seen as scum hunting. Finally asks a useful question of GW, but he is kinda all in on GW at this point anyways. Doesn't seem all the strong, but it's something.
ISO 22-24 - Pretty much worthless.
ISO 25 - More IP buddying.
ISO 26/27 - Calls Furc town.
ISO 28 - Backs up his Furc meta read on Furc. I haven't been able to give this the attention it deserves to see if this is justified or not.
ISO 29 - I love this post. "Stalling for time is indeed a scumtell. It's what I used to do as scum quite a bit." Basically ThAd's response to everything point his direction has been stalling. Everything boils down to "why". In addition, his actions seem absolutely determined to not push this game forward in a meaningful way.
ISO 30 - Well, there you go. Now you've seen it.

I'm willing to give jmj a reprieve if he actually re-engages with this game. For now, I feel much better about:

Unvote
Vote: ThAdmiral

[LimMePls]

HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING AT ALL TODAY! It's not just sheeping/bandwagonning, those are just icing on the cake. He has shown aboslutely 0 interest in moving this game in a positive direction for the town. The sheeping is just how he's hiding the fact that he's doing nothing.

[LimMePls]

The difference between 411 and 412 is strange. They are only a minute apart, yet 412 claims being drunk, and 411 does not look like it comes from someone drunk. What's up with that?

[LimMePls]

It's good to finally see a real case on Thad. That's what I've been looking for since people started voting him. I have to say, there's quite a bit there even when I leave out the pieces that rely on me being scum -- and even those I could see having merit from the perspective of someone who doesn't know my role PM.

So far, I could see myself potentially voting PI, Jmj, or Thad (in order of preference) if the deadline was getting close.

Since it isn't, though, I want to try again to get everyone to take a look at Lowell. Every part of his play is about flying under the radar. He's done some minimal analysis of GW, but other than that his posts have seemed to be mostly placeholders to maintain a pretense of involvement. If you read what he's written, though, it's obvious that he isn't engaged in this game at all.

As an example of the play that I'm describing, just look at his response to my vote. He answers in such a way that no new information is brought to light, no new points are raised, and none of my original points are really even answered, yet somehow the discussion has been closed. He even pushes some accusation of OMGUS voting my way. All of this is very effective scum play, geared towards isolating himself from the discussion while still appearing to be an active player. By ignoring the majority of the arguments that are happening, he limits both the information that is presented to the town and the chance that he will be accused of something.

I don't know if this is all in my head or what, but I really can't see why no one else is finding this guy even mildly suspicious.

This guy is also scum.

Too many awesome choices.

[LimMePls]

The fact that he is like "Ya ya, all those other wagons are good too, but what about..." when it's already been demonstrated that he is distancing himself from ThAd. Particularly with this statement from myself:

Our lynch today should be one of jmj or ThAd. Any other wagons that form (or get sudden boosts from nowhere) in the interim without REALLY good justification are going to look to me like counter wagons.

I do not think he is providing REALLY good justification. The fact that he feels the need to be all "ya, those wagons are good, BUT" makes it worse.

To be as specific as possible, it is THIS BIT:

So far, I could see myself potentially voting PI, Jmj, or Thad (in order of preference) if the deadline was getting close.

That makes him scum.

It doesn't hurt that his case is basically just a lurker case, and since Lowell ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS plays this way, it boils down to a policy case. Either of which isn't very persuasive to me, and just looks like trying to distract us from what we're doing right now.

[LimMePls]

Furcolow - 2 - Sathoris, Feysal

I don't see any posts from Feysal in this game. Am I going crazy?

[LimMePls]

^^I love how you can admit to the scummy things you've done, but before now acted indignanat when people called you scummy because they didn't spell out why. You even admit to the charges, how can you have found it so odd that others were finding you scummy.

ThAd is still an awesome lynch.

[LimMePls]

Thad reads as town, I don't like the people on jmj's wagon... while bvoigt's vote change after furc FoSed him does read oddly, LynchMe does have some good points against gonnano (mostly in post 429). I can leave G-dub alone for right now, but I've still got my eye on him.

Unvote, Vote: gonnano

This doesn't make sense if you think 429 is good. 429 basically premises gonanno scum on ThAd-scum, yet you are saying ThAd is town. What up with that?

[LimMePls]

I do have a question for you though - if Thad flips town, then what's your opinion on gonnano? Isn't it still possible he's scum?

Of course its still possible.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE JMJ WAGON!?!??!?

For starters, GW and smarg are on it...


He said it's his playstyle, so I'm not gonna vote for someone just based on playstyle. If he's posting scummy/bad content, that's one thing. And if he does so, I won't mind tossing a vote on him.

Also, when LynchMe pointed out that a bunch of people were suspecting jmj but not voting (which is a common indicator of said person being scum, true (even if this "scumtell", like all, is WIFOM)), he got a crapload of votes in a very short amount of time. IMO, that's even MORE suspicious. jmj can be scum with quick-to-bus buddies, or he's town being sheeped by scum. I'll wait until he posts some content before I decide which it is.

I know someone's going to ask why I'm on gonnano rather than GW/smarg since I keep mentioning how suspicious they are: smarg-wagon won't kick off and GW-wagon has had the same people on it for forever. Basically, read what I said in ISO 10/Post 325 and switch the names around.

QFT.

[LimMePls]

.... My last post was only two days ago. In case no one realized it, today was the the god damn Super Bowl. I also have dealt with the freaking city for the past week, then was in the hospital yesterday. SO excuse the hell out of me if I am not posting to y'all's freaking stringent posting requirements. Now that it has calmed down, I can throw myself 110% into this game.

jmj, you can't seriously be annoyed with us, can you? Here is what we've gotten from you over the last 2 weeks.

Apologies about not posting for a while. Me and my family had a unexpected huge problem we had to deal with, thanks to our bitch of a neighbor. Give me another day to get to where my mind is not focused on whats been going on, and I will be able to catch-up.

Ok, drama with the city and everything is done. Now, I am about to do an in-depth reread of the thread. Off we go.

.... really furc? 2 hours, and i am "promising, but not delivering"? I'm taking notes and everything, give me a little while. It might take me a while, but I will deliver.

No vote because I am re-reading, then reading everyone in iso. Give me some time.

DP, why are you voting me on the basis of reading everyone in iso?

Jesus christ people. I have been dealing with the city for the past few days, only just recently getting a chance to do any reading of any kind. I always do ISO reads when I am doing catch-up,not matter what day it is. I also tend to analyze votes on day 1. The reason I do ISO reads is I tend to skim posts when I am reading a whole page of different people's posts, so I focus on Just one persons posts at a time. You don't like it, deal with it, you will get a catch-up post in my own way.

If you were playing in a game and you saw that string of posts from someone, you wouldn't at least consider the possibility that they are lurking scum? It's not "stringent" posting requirements that's the problem, it's that we expect SOMETHING over the course of 2 weeks. If you'd said 2 weeks ago that you wouldn't be able to participate for the next 2 weeks, you probably would have been replaced. So, if you have the time to play in the game, you'd be doing us all a huge favor by actually playing. We'd love to have your participation. If you don't have the time then maybe you should say so? It's kinda rude to the rest of us for you to keep promising us content and not delivering. We understand that life happens, no one is saying you HAVE to play. But mafia is a commitment to a group of players, and if you can't make the commitment, common decency says that at the very least you should tell us that.

*hops off soapbox*

ThAd lynch is still the correct play. Where are those votes?

[LimMePls]

But lynching a lurker jmj is better? Why DP?

[LimMePls]

Because he's intentionally lurking.

Because he is stalling.

Because the content he did promise was useless content that would only serve to make him seem "pro-town" (A re-read and iso of EVERY player 15 pages when we are still day 1 of a large-game??? That's fucking useless).

His only line of thought when he has been posting has been, "okay I'll just stall as long as possible, maybe post content later, but I don't want to do any now, but I'll make my promsied content seem really good and juicy (mass iso) so that I don't become under suspicion for intentionally lurking".

This lynch is awesome.

Your post is illogical to me. Why wouldn't you rather the slot get replaced with someone useful and lynch someone who is actually behaving scummy?

[LimMePls]

Because he's intentionally lurking.

Because he is stalling.

Because the content he did promise was useless content that would only serve to make him seem "pro-town" (A re-read and iso of EVERY player 15 pages when we are still day 1 of a large-game??? That's fucking useless).

His only line of thought when he has been posting has been, "okay I'll just stall as long as possible, maybe post content later, but I don't want to do any now, but I'll make my promsied content seem really good and juicy (mass iso) so that I don't become under suspicion for intentionally lurking".

This lynch is awesome.

Your post is illogical to me. Why wouldn't you rather the slot get replaced with someone useful and lynch someone who is actually behaving scummy?

BECAUSE JMJ IS "ACTUALLY BEHAVING SCUMMY"

WHERE!? Other than his inability to post (which he is claiming has outside factors)? If it's the inability to post, then your case DOES boil down to a lurker/policy lynch, despite your protestations to the contrary.

[LimMePls]

Sorry for being absent, but my vote on ThAd still is looking as wonderful as ever. Did anyone need an update on the case?

Nope. I got that covered.

[LimMePls]

The game is being pulled in far too many directions. 11 different people currently have votes on them. This is unacceptable. We're going to need to consolidate. We can start with eliminating silly, unattainable prospects like Lowell, Pie, bvoigt, and XScorp. None of these players will be lynched today if I have anything to say about it.

QFT

[LimMePls]

ThAd - your reaction has been very "Why me? Lol, someone thinks I'm scum. Why am I scum? Look at this shiny VI we can lynch instead." This quote in particular:

Secondly I believe, in general, that I am not all that much of a scumhunter. I certainly do it, but I am pretty sure if you looked over my history I have more often been inclined to pick and choose from what I believe are the best cases rather than submit ones of my own.

sounds off, almost like you're trying to play an equivalent of the newbie card - "Oh, don't mind me, I can't scumhunt, that's why I was pushing the townie mislynch."

Also, you seem to have inside alignment information and a lot of your reads on people change suddenly and for no apparent reason - you spend one whole post early in the game agreeing with me and saying I make good points, yet the next post in your iso has you getting scum tingles from me. You do the same thing to Furc - he's obvtown and then in the next post in your iso, he's clearly scum. That looks like you're feeling out where people are willing to wagon.

This is a great point. This is because he was thinking he would buddy those people, and then when he saw an opportunity for a mislynch on them, his reads went out the window. This is another great reason ThAd is scum.

[LimMePls]

504 makes me nervous. 505 and 507 are good posting.

[LimMePls]

smarg's 507 really rubs me the wrong way - she's pushing the Amrun wagon while staying on ThAd, another high BW. Don't know HOW LynchMe is getting goodposting from that. Maybe I'm just tunneling though.

Because smarg's 507 is absolutely correct?

[LimMePls]

Everyone is scummy until proven innocent, to me, and I keep an open mind about things.

This is scum thinking.

[LimMePls]

Edit
@ gw: it seems like you are more worried about what people will think about your vote on me, than you do about being sure that you are voting scum.

I have to agree with this assessment of GW's vote.

[LimMePls]

Hypothetical Scenario: LynchMePls, Amrun, and ThAdmiral are the last three alive on D6. Amrun is voting ThAdmiral, and ThAdmiral is voting him back. With everything that you've gathered up until this point, what's your move, LMP?

I'm not sure this situation is actually very relevant to the discussion at hand. For one, I've heard it said that in 3 way lylo when you have the deciding vote, you should hammer the player who looks more TOWN. (See Return to Liten in my wiki for this working to a town win). I think this thinking comes from the idea that scum would have elminated the towniest player the night before, in an attempt to be left the most town looking player.

So if you are trying to, in a roundabout way, ask me which of those two I'd rather lynch right now, it's ThAd. Answering the question as presented, I'd probably vote Amrun, but I wouldn't be happy about it either way.

[LimMePls]

Everyone is scummy until proven innocent, to me, and I keep an open mind about things.

This is scum thinking.

What? No, it's not. Please explain to me how that even REMOTELY makes sense.


Scum already know who the scum are and who is town. Why would everyone be scum to them...? What...?

Everyone is scum until proven innocent is scum thinking because it means you are not interested in who is town, you are only interested in identifying someone who is perceived as most scum by the rest of the game. In other words, the thinking you posted is geared towards finding the easiest mislynch.

[LimMePls]

I do keep my options open. That was the whole point of the post in question... Wow. What is going on?

I do have a fever, so perhaps I'm speaking gibberish atm, but it seems to me that everyone is failing reading comprehension right now.

Playing from a mindset of "Everyone is scummy until they've proved to the rest of the game they are town" is ABSOLUTELY scummy. It's scum minded because it a) promotes opportunistic wagonning of the most convenient mislynch and b) seeks to identify obv-town players for NK elimination.

The AtE/distancing-from-your-own-post-via-zOMG-I'm-SICK is ALSO scummy.

I'm starting to come around full circle on Amrun.

[LimMePls]

Am I supposed to lie and say I'm NOT sick? I am only here because I've skived off classes because I'm ill.

No, you just don't say anything at all. This is the exact same thing when people make a post and then later say "well I was drunk". I don't give a damn if someone is sick/drunk/tired/hungry/working/ect. All I care about is the posts. When people try to make excuses for their play, it's BAD!

[LimMePls]

Am I supposed to lie and say I'm NOT sick? I am only here because I've skived off classes because I'm ill.

No, you just don't say anything at all. This is the exact same thing when people make a post and then later say "well I was drunk". I don't give a damn if someone is sick/drunk/tired/hungry/working/ect. All I care about is the posts. When people try to make excuses for their play, it's BAD!

Fair enough. Me being out of my skull doesn't CHANGE what I posted, and anyone may choose to take it seriously or not. However, me being in fever delirium is relevant information. I'd want to know it, if the shoe was on the other foot.

If it doesn't make a difference to you, then nothing has changed, has it?

It does make a difference. People who try to disown their own posts are being scummy.

Why would you want that information if "the shoe was on the other foot"? For one, how do you know if said explanation (drunk/sick/tired/hungry/working/horny/ect) is even THE TRUTH!? You can't. So all it serves to do is give a player an appeal to your emotions ("please disregard X because I'm [insert sympathy grabbing word here]").

[LimMePls]

Look, LMP, I've asked you twice to tell me why you dropped Amrun from your radar completely after you had previously fought pretty hard for his lynching. I even came up with a funky little story to make it seem fun. You're dodging this, and it's really starting to get on my nerves.

I am ABSOLUTELY not dodging it. I answered your little sceneario. What is the problem? Also, how has Amrun "dropped from my my radar"?

[LimMePls]

Hypothetical Scenario: LynchMePls, Amrun, and ThAdmiral are the last three alive on D6. Amrun is voting ThAdmiral, and ThAdmiral is voting him back. With everything that you've gathered up until this point, what's your move, LMP?

I'm not sure this situation is actually very relevant to the discussion at hand. For one, I've heard it said that in 3 way lylo when you have the deciding vote, you should hammer the player who looks more TOWN. (See Return to Liten in my wiki for this working to a town win). I think this thinking comes from the idea that scum would have elminated the towniest player the night before, in an attempt to be left the most town looking player.

So if you are trying to, in a roundabout way, ask me which of those two I'd rather lynch right now, it's ThAd. Answering the question as presented, I'd probably vote Amrun, but I wouldn't be happy about it either way.

Quoted for RC. Dunno if he just missed this or what.

[LimMePls]

@Everyone

- If you are not voting for one of Thad, Amrum (PI) or moth (jmj) in your next post, explain in depth why all three are beyond a doubt town. This is the point in the game where stuff needs to happen, we have three big wagons and absolutely zero reason for people not to be on one them.

QFT.

[LimMePls]

I am ABSOLUTELY not dodging it. I answered your little sceneario. What is the problem? Also, how has Amrun "dropped from my my radar"?

That answer was so absurd that I had hoped you wouldn't bring it back up. Dropped from your radar as in I asked you why you were voting Ivy and you got all huffy about it. You claimed that Ivy was the worst and convinced me of that fact. Then I go to bed at night, content with the fact that me and LMP were going to force this town to lynch Ivy, hand-in-hand. My dream turned into a nightmare when, the next day, you completely threw Ivy off your list and went after ThAdmiral.

I think, when Amrun flips scum (even if it's not today), you're going to have some explaining to do. I just want you to know I'm not going to forget what you did today.

I did NOT completely through Ivy off my list. Go look at my TOWN/SCUM meter from after my reread, Ivy is still WAY DOWN THERE. What I did do was reread the game and decide that the Ivy wagon was not the place to be. As for my "claiming Ivy was the worst and convinced me of that" I don't know where I did this, all I know is that I said "My votes been on Ivy to this point because Ivy has been the scummiest, and why do I have to justify my vote being here just because its been there a long time" (or words to that effect). Your attitude alarms me a bit.

[LimMePls]

I am ABSOLUTELY not dodging it. I answered your little sceneario. What is the problem? Also, how has Amrun "dropped from my my radar"?

That answer was so absurd that I had hoped you wouldn't bring it back up. Dropped from your radar as in I asked you why you were voting Ivy and you got all huffy about it. You claimed that Ivy was the worst and convinced me of that fact. Then I go to bed at night, content with the fact that me and LMP were going to force this town to lynch Ivy, hand-in-hand. My dream turned into a nightmare when, the next day, you completely threw Ivy off your list and went after ThAdmiral.

I think, when Amrun flips scum (even if it's not today), you're going to have some explaining to do. I just want you to know I'm not going to forget what you did today.

@Everyone-who-isn't-RC: Does anyone else think that my answer to his question "was so absurd that I had hoped you wouldn't bring it back up"? Because this just seems ludicrous to me.

[LimMePls]

I agree the game sorely needs a claim.

That's fascinating, because we were talking about a lynch, not a claim.

[LimMePls]

gonanno's trying to ascribe scum/town motivations to jmj's timing to declare his replacement seems strange to me. I'm pretty sure it's a null tell.

[LimMePls]

You don't see a logical progression there? Really?

[LimMePls]

No, I do not. I see no reason why Ivy completely dropped off your radar after that show of confidence.

But, whatever. You won. I wasn't here to fight you over it, and everyone here thinks you're onto something with ThAdmiral.

Again you say "completely dropped off your radar". Show how that is true in ANYWAY.

[LimMePls]

- Why the hell is PI/PI's Replacement still alive? Scumsliped on like page three... "I wouldn't mind being investigated" just reeks of a godfather or investi-immune scum bragging.

You're preaching to the choir. LMP doesn't want to admit to it, but he completely derailed what was a solid wagon on Ivy. Now all these people are voting ThAdmiral, and I don't know what they're not getting from him. I'm reading his responding posts, and I just don't sense anything particularly suspicious here. Maybe you don't go for the argument that she slipped up during the opening pages. You know, that's fine, that's a really setup-heavy argument. It's debatable. You can't really ignore the fact that Ivy was bragging about how she'd be "willing to be investigated" in an attempt to make herself sound townie. It just sounds off.

Unvote

;

vote: Amrun

Don't confuse Artem for Amrun, guys.

Ya, I derailed a wagon that had stalled for like a week and a half. You're SOOO right...

[LimMePls]

unvote
vote: amrum

To be honest this is much more for things PosionIvy said as Amrum's been pretty ok. I don't like voting someone for what their predecessor did as a general rule, but a scummy slot

is

a scummy slot after all.

ThAd wagon is STILL awesome.

[LimMePls]

Because I don't think your claim has helped us determine much at all. It seemed more you were just bored and wanted to shake things up more than anything else.

Needless to say I am against unnecessary claiming, but I don't want to get in to a discussion about the pros and cons of claiming - that is a mafia theory discussion and would perhaps be something best addressed after the game in the proper forum.

If it's needless to say, then why the hell are you saying it?

This is the "let me say lots of things about what defines pro-town things to look like I'm pro-town" tell.

[LimMePls]

Oh, and Amrun's role ability sounds scummy to me.

[LimMePls]

One of the reasons I decided to do it was because ThAd jumped on my wagon -- OMGUS, self-preservation, or scumvote? You decide.

All three perhaps?

[LimMePls]

Ok, your role now makes INFINITELY more sense as McCarthy than McArthur. McCarthy silencing people is like perfect flavor fit, they just "plead the 5th".

[LimMePls]

No way a scum is that careless with a fake claim. NO WAY.

[LimMePls]

I already govenored him so its all good. When I said we needed a lynch I ment a good lynch, not a stupid mislynch.

WIN!

[LimMePls]

I was already voting Amrun...maybe she realized that it was an actual hammer, but the reaction feels sincere to me.

UNVOTE: Amrun
VOTE: ThAdmiral

This time, the vote is staying here for good.

bvoigt's unannounced hammer plus this shit makes me wonder if ThAd is a mislynch too. gonanno's switch to Amrun was scummy as hell too.

[LimMePls]

A few more pages down.

I do have a question for you though - if Thad flips town, then what's your opinion on gonnano? Isn't it still possible he's scum?

Of course its still possible.

I typically don't like discussing hypothetical situations based on unflipped people, but this response got me interested. Of course anything is possible, but do you think it is likely?

The question was whether it was possible or not. Do I think it's likely? Yes, gonanno has been playing pretty scummy. Would I have said yes when the question was originally asked? Not as sure, I don't remember.

[LimMePls]

I will reitterate that regardless of flip gonnao needs a bullet. Not an investigation, not someone to keep an eye on him a bullet.

++

[LimMePls]

852 disappoints me a lot Sathoris. Are you scum?

[LimMePls]

Too late; I think Sathoris may have decided to test the governor claim.

Not even close. Amrun had a lot of unvoters. Am I missing something?

[LimMePls]

@People saying - "Test gov ability" - You do realize that most govenor abilities end the day with no lynch right? Also, not claiming if I am really govenor or not, I do like pulling this stuff to get reactions out of people when I have another role.

Basically, if you are voting amrum over the govenor thing, you should be fully prepared to see a no lynch or him lynched.

So basically you are lying scum, right? If anyone needs a bullet tonight it's you.

For everyone who didn't notice:

Amrum has not been governered, and llama is to be killed asap. Put votes back on amrum.

Gambiting != lying.

[LimMePls]

Amrun wagon is almost certainly a GUARANTEED MISLYNCH. Those who pile on anyways will be heavily scrutinized.

ThAd's sudden arguments with Llama make me feel SO GOOD about my vote. Talk about super survival instincts. "Hey wait everyone, it was just a gambit, come back to Amrun wagon!!!!"

@Llama: If you think we could seriously orchestrate a gonanno lynch before deadline, I'll participate. But I think ThAd is much better.

[LimMePls]

Quite a few people have expressed suspicion of gonnano but he has somehow escaped real scrutiny

Why a gonnano lynch anyway. I know a lot of people have mentioned him but what has he done that's scummy?

DOES NOT COMPUTE!

[LimMePls]

Sorry, I messed up the quotes.

If they're scum, how would they fakeclaim from memory?

That's the thing, they don't. But by changing some things later they make you believe they were. Hence, I distrust it.

Isn't there some saying about "The simplest scenario is also the most likely"? This doesn't seem very plausible to me.

Occam's Razor. It's your friend.

Tags fixed ~ Mod

[LimMePls]

^^Sigh...

@MOD

Can you fix that? Closing tag should be [/url]

[LimMePls]

So EGL shows up and votes on the biggest wagon without saying anything. Then he notices someone is voting for him, sees an accusation of buddying, and votes for his supposed buddy.

That's town behavior. Right.

WIN

[LimMePls]

@Llama: What's your take on bvoigt?

@ThAd: Same question.

@RC: What do you make of this EGL buisness?

[LimMePls]

Unvote ThAd now please. He is confirmed town.

Over a roleclaim? Are you fucking trolling? Have you heard of fake claims before? They aren't exactly high tech.

[LimMePls]

Unvote
Vote: gonanno

You better not be playing me DP. Or there will be blood.

[LimMePls]

It's so funny. Everytime I have a thought in this game ThAd has the exact opposite. I swear to god...

Unvote
Vote: Bunnylover

[LimMePls]

1040 pings ALL KINDS of scumdar for me.

[LimMePls]

Bunny-wagon prior to following DP posts:
Bunnylover - 4 - LlamaFluff, Amrun, RedCoyote, LynchMePls

I look at these two wagons, and see more pro-town players on the Bunny wagon and more scummy players on the gonnano wagon.

If I had mentioned everytime you pinged my scumdar... Needless to say you are in my top 3-4 atm. And this isn't an OMGUS. Just something I hadn't decided to point out as of yet, because there's scummier people to lynch.

So let me get this straight, you want to join a wagon that has Amrun (someone you've been pushing as scum all day) and me (someone you just said is in your top 3-4) because it has more town reads (althought you have a scum read on half the players) and the other has more scum reads? Yet you've pushed Amrun-scum all game and now you declare I'm in your top 3-4!? THIS DOES NOT COMPUTE!

The amount of mental acrobatics required in order for DP's thoughts to be town are staggering. DP's derailing of the ThAd wagon is completely suspect now.

Unvote
Vote: DP

@Llama, RedCoyote, Feysal, ThAdmiral, Amrun, InflatablePie, EGL, Scott Brosius: Give me your reads on DP pls.

[LimMePls]

^^Strike that

Unvote
Vote: ThAdmiral

DP is for tomorrow. Or he can eat a bullet tonight when ThAd flips scum.

[LimMePls]

I love that DP is calling him "confirmed". Dream on pal.

[LimMePls]

ThAd is town. Why are you voting confirmed town?

Also reading comprehension for the win:

The amount of mental acrobatics required in order for DP's thoughts to be town are staggering. DP's derailing of the ThAd wagon is completely suspect now.

[LimMePls]

Unless scum get mod-written fakeclaim PMs (as opposed to just getting a name), because then everything goes out the window.

I always assume the worst. Rarely does it bite you in the end. Once we have evidence to the contrary then we should re-evaluate, but for now I'd assume they get full fake role PMs. It certainly is a mod preference though, some just give a fake name.

Anyways, basically, gut says DP is scummy scum McScummerson, but that one tiny detail is causing me to have doubts.

Fine. But we're ABSOLUTELY revisiting this tomorrow. If I'm dead please don't forget this.

[LimMePls]

I don't want anything to do with the Bunnylover wagon after DP's move to it. That was so scummy it's sick.

[LimMePls]

This is the most schizoid game I have ever seen.

QFT. Bunny is still an awful wagon. gonanno is still scum. DP is still scum. ThAd is probably still scum.

[LimMePls]

Vote: David Parker

This guy is scum.

[LimMePls]

Probably vig, given the other two targets.

[LimMePls]

@IP and LMP, can you furnish reasons for voting for DP today? Is it based on his play yesterday?

This is the most asinine and ridiculous question I've ever heard. OF COURSE ITS BECAUSE OF HIS PLAY YESTERDAY!? What other answer were you expecting? "HERP DERP ITS CAUSE I COP'ED HIM"? That would be STUPID.

This question is so anti-town its sick. If it's not because of his play yesterday, then it would be because of night action abilities. So you're either asking worthless questions that do DICK ALL to help town (except pad your post count and attempt to appear active), or you're blatantly rolefishing. Either one makes you scum.

[LimMePls]

Probably vig, given the other two targets.

Does GhostWriter/hohum seem like a likely target of a pro-town vig to anyone? I didn't think he was scummy.

Well, I more meant POE as RC and Llama make more sense as the scum NKs to me than GW/hohum.

[LimMePls]

The mod said that it should be obvious in the votecounts, when I asked.

Well, shit. I guess I was roleblocked. :/

Furc slip does indeed seem bad, but I want to hear him defend himself.

Ya, because clearly your power was so dangerous that the scum wanted you RB'ed....

Not buying it. Amrun is now a viable lynch.

[LimMePls]

@LMP You just voted without saying anything. I was hoping you'd have, you know, elaborated a bit more on a case about him.

I WENT ON ABOUT HIM FOR PAGES AT THE END OF THE DAY YESTERDAY! AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS!? You can't just infer that the reason I'm voting someone that I've already been riding as scum is that I still believe they are scum for all the reasons I've already said!? I MEAN WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON IN THIS GAME!

@Artem: That's stupid.

[LimMePls]

Ya, because clearly your power was so dangerous that the

scum

wanted you RB'ed....

She didn't say

scum

roleblocked her...

Why the misrep?

Why do people keep insisting this is a scum roleblock,

even after I post the bit about other potential (and potentially town) blocking roles

.

FoS: LMP

, because it looks like he's riding some inside information here. I think scum role-blocking Amrun and going into the day with a "I don't buy it" attitude plan is a potential play here.

Of course it would have been scum, how many town RBs do you expect us to have?

If scum want to pull a move like that to get a lynch on Amrun, let them, it's not exactly like they were going to have a hard time lynching Amrun anyways.

@Amrun: This is why Artem's post was stupid.

[LimMePls]

Well I'd be more sure that Furc was scum after his slip if I wasn't a Russian town-aligned player myself.

Name claim: Mikhail Bulgakov, yeah kinda random.

I just read his entry on Wikipedia, and I can't help but wonder why in the world he would be in this game...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Bulgakov

My thoughts exactly. I have no idea why he's in the game.

@Scott: What does a name claim have to do with what information I have?

!! The information you claimed made ThAd town. The information alluded to here:

I have role-related information that ThAd is town at this point. Will not reveal further.

Why are you playing dumb about this?

[LimMePls]

Meanwhile, Amrun is still scum. I voted for PI before, then unvoted because the wagon speed made me uneasy. Amrun has done plenty since then to help me get over my discomfort. Most notably, the claim and how none of it is townie in any way.

We've already talked about the fact that the claim is not a scumtell. Specifically, what are those other reasons for voting Amrun?

@LMP: It looks to me like Sathoris is trying to skate by, and posting very little good content. You've played with him before, right? What do you think?

He's acting scummy, no doubt.

[LimMePls]

I'm gonna lean town on Amrun. I mean a town roleblocker wouldn't really roleblock a "silencer". I just don't think it's likely. Now if he's scum he shouldn't have been roleblocked at all. The only thing that makes some sense is a different scum group to Amrun's roleblocking him.

Basically I see one of two things happening:
Town Amrun got roleblocked by scum to set him up.
ScumA Amrun got roleblocked by ScumB to set him up.

First seems slightly more probable.

I love how some accuse me of being scum for noting that Amrun being roleblocked makes him scummy, but this right here gets no reaction. THIS IS SO SCUMMY.

First off, what DP is essentially saying here is "Amrun is town, or he isn't". Obv statement is obv.

Setting aside the absurdity of the statement, how on earth is the first "slightly more probable"? DP gives no explanation for why the first would be slightly more probable, he just asserts it as if its a fact.

But even WORSE, if it is "slightly" more probable, why should that tip DP to a town read on Amrun, when DP has plenty of other reasons to think Amrun is scum (that he pounded us about over and over yesterday). Suddenly this magically negates all of DP's feelings on Amrun from yesterday!? WHY!?!?!?

This does NOT add up. DP is scum.

THAD 1297 MAKES ME SO HAPPY! THANK YOU!

DP's reads have been completely and totally tactical, and he's been changing them whenever he think he can get away with it. HE'S PLAYING LIKE SCUM!

[LimMePls]

Sathoris - yesterday, you were on Amrun/PI straight through the end of the day. You listed reasons that had nothing to do with being McCarthy for voting her.

Why is she suddenly a townread?

I was on Furculow most of the day, I only switched away from him to focus on the two most likely lynches at the time: ThAd and Amrun. As I explained in my voting post #852 I went for Amrun because I didn't trust his claim that much.

When suddenly Bunny got wagon'd in no time whatsoever I brought up that the reason Bunny was being lynched was ridiculous and that my preferred lynch then, amrun together with PI, made a lot more scumtells which can't be based on miscommunication, in comparison to Bunny's lynch. Post #1042

I never had Amrun on my top list as scum, just as my top possible lynch of D1. Events during D2 such as Che coming out as town and DP/Furc acting so scummy doesn't make Amrun a lynch target for me anymore and pushed her up the town list. Admittedly he is a bit high. The middle bit is more random then the top ~4 on both ends. Though I still stand by it.

Sathoris' recent contributions seem fine to me. Particularly this bit about the middle part of his list being the most shaky. I have the exact same experience when I'm making TOWN/SCUM scales, so it read very genuine to me.

[LimMePls]

Alright, Furc nonsense is now in hyper ridiculous land.

Unvote
Vote: Furcolow

[LimMePls]

Furc, you suck. You had this lynch coming. Stop your all caps/rage as if it's town's fault/mistake (if you are town), it's your own bloody fault for this mess.

"Yes you're a mislynch, and I recognize that, but it's your own fault, so you can't complain."

DP is scum.

Unvote
Vote: DP

People should seriously switch here. DP is obviously scum. I mean seriously, look at the language here. "you had this lynch coming". Wow.

[LimMePls]

Are you suggesting Furc ISN'T scum? Why?

Well, if there is only 1 team, then no it doesn't mean that. If there is only 1 team, then sure it does mean that. Either way, DP's play is SUPER FREAKING SCUMMY. Furc's play is scummy with a chance of stupid. Since Furc is prone to stupid plays, DP is a much better wagon.

The play around Furcs wagon looks like a mislynch to me, the way the play around Amrun looked yesterday.

[LimMePls]

I like the growth of the DP wagon and his completely failure to refute the points against him.

[LimMePls]

too many lurking bastards for JFK to handle ATM.
But if you leave me alive during the night, I'll be happy to oblige.

Are you implying you are going to kill someone?

If he were is this something you should be drawing attention to?

[LimMePls]

There are many more points than that. Get crackin.

[LimMePls]

mothrax

asked for replacement.

Welcome

The Fonz

who replaces him!

Thanks.

/cheer.

Should restore some sanity to this cluster f*ck of a town.

[LimMePls]

@ dp: I know I'm not voting you anymore, but seriously - could you please answer my question?

Cart before the horse?

[LimMePls]

bvoigt you make me sad. And here I thought you were town. *sigh*

[LimMePls]

I think I figured out who the townies are and want to systematically lynch the others, starting with smarg.

And you couldn't be bothered to post this list of "who you think the townies are" before you replace out? That is really frustrating.

[LimMePls]

Town

Beasts of the Sea- I wish he would post more often, because they're good when he does.
Feysal- He provides good questioning and analysis.
DavidParker- He used the wording of his role PM to clear TheAd.
LynchMePls- See the reasons for Feysal.
ThAdmiral- See DP. Of course, I'd have to rethink if one of the two flipped scum.
Lowell- While he doesn't have a lot of content, he has made a few good posts, such as ISO #13.
XScorpion- His tunneling on Amrun doesn't look something scum would do.
Amrun- Between the claim and the reaction to my "hammer," I just don't think she's that likely to be scum anymore.
bvoigt- I know my play has been halfhearted lately, but I'm going to improve.
The Fonz- I like his catchup post so far.

I have so many problems with this town list. For one, how on EARTH does DP's claimed "wording of his role PM to clear ThAd" make him town? Even more bizarre is how does it make ThAd town!? XScorpion tunneling on Amrun doesn't look like something scum would do. I think my head just exploded. OF COURSE SCUM WOULD DO THAT IF THEY ARE PUSHING A MISLYNCH/CHAINSAWING FOR A BUDDY! WHY WOULDN'T SCUM TUNNEL AMRUN!?!?!?!? MAKES ABSOLUTELY 0 SENSE!

Plus I hate hate Hate HATE putting yourself on your town list. With a passion.

This game is so full of fail it's starting to feel like a chore. Are you guys competing for scummiest player of the year awards or something?

[LimMePls]

Why is there no scenario under which DP tries a gambit to clear ThAd (since he doesn't like the ThAd wagon) and thus DP is town and ThAd is scum. Or even DP tries said gambit because he thinks it'll make him look town, and thus DP is scum and ThAd is town?

As for XScorpion, obviously scum can tunnel, but the way he's tunneling gives me a town feeling. I don't know how to explain it exactly.

So there is some mysterious method of tunneling that makes someone definitely not scum-tunneling. And you have no idea how to explain it, but you know it on sight? This is so ludicrous.

So hypothetically, supposing your theory that there is a special town-only-tunneling, what if XScorpion has also observed said "town-tunneling" method, and thus uses it as scum cause he thinks people will think he's town. Doesn't this mean that even if your incredibly unlikely and impossible to explain "town-only-tunneling" did exist, scum could then do it simply to try and appear town.

In other words, your suggestion is ABSURD.

[LimMePls]

In hindsight, I probably should not have tried to explain as much as I did, but it was the first time I had ever been in that situation.

You make me weep Amrun.

DP is for tomorrow.

Unvote
Vote: Amrun

[LimMePls]

Vietnamese

Soviet Mafia

Goon

That's helpful.

[LimMePls]

smargaret is probably scum.

Then again, so are you ThAd. And the fact that a vig didn't put a bullet in DP's head makes me a sad panda.

Vote: DP

[LimMePls]

I'm honestly not too sure at this point of anyone. With what looks like 2 scum groups and a possible SK (or vig), and only 1 scum flip so far and like 8 flips that leaves almost like half of you as scum. BTW, I have no reason to believe ThAd is town, that was all baloney earlier. There was something in his post when he claimed that looked like a town tell, but I have no role-related info to him being town. However, I still feel he is probable town. Re-reading a go go!

AKA "I lied".

CONFIRM VOTE: DP

[LimMePls]

How is it LYLO!? THATS THE DUMBEST THING I'VE EVER HEARD! CROSS KILLS ALONE MAKE IT NOT LYLO.

[LimMePls]

I'VE ALREADY SCUM HUNTED HIM. I'VE DONE IT FOR TWO DAYS. IT ONLY CONFIRMS MY SUSPICIONS.

Forget it, this is just to obvious.

Unvote
Vote: Smargaret

This needs to happen. Also, @Vig(s): YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG. WE NEED THESE VIs FREAKING DEAD.

[LimMePls]

Can we stop spreading the votes around?

@ dp: scott is not going to be lynched today. Accept it.

Smarg today, bvoigt tomorrow - let's do this.

QFT

[LimMePls]

You seemed rather easily convinced to not lynch me LMP? how's that?

You die next.

[LimMePls]

No. You'll have to read the ISO. You'll get it at most halfway through, I promise.

[LimMePls]

Sorry everyone, but I need V/LA for the next day, maybe 2. Pretty swamped. I'll post ASAP.

[LimMePls]

This game is giving me a headache. I swear to god it's like 4 or 5 players are competeing for scummiest-player-ever. I'd be perfectly happy with Smargaret, DP, Furcolow, and gonanno lynches. Maybe bvoigt too.

[LimMePls]

Unvote
Vote: Gonanno

Full disclosure: This game is really boring me. There have been an insane number of replacements though, so I'm going to try to hang in there.

[LimMePls]

@Xscorpion: We lynch Furc and he flips town (not out of the realm of possibility, Furc has shown that he CAN in fact be just that bad). Where do we go from there?

[LimMePls]

Vote: gonanno

[LimMePls]

Unvote
Vote: gonanno

Proper formatting FTW.

[LimMePls]

gah, I was already on the wagon!

Someone hammer. No further bits of his claim are needed. gonanno claimed scum.

[LimMePls]

GONANNO LYNCH IS A SCUM LYNCH 100% GUARANTEED. LYNCH ME TOMORROW IF I'M A LIAR!

[LimMePls]

^^That's funny, I have the exact opposite feeling. I'm not keen on Fonz, but I think his rebuttal to BOTS was pretty spot on.

Unvote
Vote: Feysal

This is a good wagon.

[LimMePls]

^^How do you know the size of the scum team? In other words:

If we can't decide, we could always just lynch PeregrineV and bring that scumteam to 1 person

How do you know this is true?

[LimMePls]

Change of plans.

Unvote
Vote: Fonz

[LimMePls]

I've decided that your play is scummy, and I want a replacement on Feysal since he's given up on the game.

[LimMePls]

Pretty much your completely disregard for anything but Furc-is-obv-scum-omg and self defense.

[LimMePls]

Except that I haven't disregarded everything else. I've made clear my position on Feysal (townish) and EGL (scummy). I'm not going to throw four years of being an ardent Lynch All Liars advocate out the window because some other people have a town read on Furc, but I'm also clearly not using it as an excuse to avoid commenting on other issues. Also, if I'm attacked by something I don't think is fair or reasonable, of course I'm going to point it out.

So on Day four of a large theme game, other than your Furc pushing, you've commented on Feysal and EGL. But you're not hiding behind Furc. Yeah, ok...

[LimMePls]

Mod:

I will be V/LA rest of this week into Monday. I will check in as much as possible, but most of my available mafia time will probably be spent on my moderating duties.

[LimMePls]

@BOTS: Cause I didn't see those other times.

[LimMePls]

Missed the fact that I was in Rome all of last week, and away from the game on account of that?

Yes.

[LimMePls]

I feel like Feysal and Smarg are on opposite scumteams
It would really fit the flavor, too
I would wagon either of them

Didn't they both say that their nationalities were confirmed to each other? If so, then I don't see how they could be on opposite scum teams. Scum/Town seems very plausible. smargaret's observation about Feysal's supposed nationality is a great observation.

Unvote
Vote: Feysal

[LimMePls]

At the end of the day, if both players stick to their stories as stated so far, we've got no choice but to lynch Feysal. But it still strikes me that there's something fishy here.

I'm not crazy about the "we've got no choice" bit here. It's preparing for a move to the wagon but if the flip goes the other way it's like "well, we had no choice...".

[LimMePls]

Nothing new to comment on. Still like my vote.

[LimMePls]

I'm trying to work out what your actual problem is here. Do you not think you should always lynch in non-lylo situations where two players claim contradicting role information, especially when neither is a 'power role' per se? Is it not a no-brainer? And do you really think it matters whether I personally join this wagon or not? I have made quite clear that I have a town read on Feysal. Nonetheless, if this is not a case of player or mod error, we have two players claiming contradicting information.

My problem is the way you stated it was "well, I'll do this, but I don't really wanna..." You set yourself up to distance as far from it as possible. I find people who undermine their own positions scummy.

[LimMePls]

Not voting - 4 - Feysal, Enigma, Sathoris, PeregrineV

THESE PEOPLE ARE DOING IT WRONG. VOTE PLEASE.

PeregrineV replaced DP, right? I'm fine with that wagon too.

[LimMePls]

Probably not. The way you made your argument seemed very "well, I guess we just have to do this...", which looks like trying to duck responsibility for your actions. Phrased as "this is the clearly best choice, so it's what I want to do" would probably not have bothered me as much.

[LimMePls]

Fonz: I don't think it's semantic. One way of saying things leaves the door open to "aww schucks, I was wrong, but we had to, so don't blame me" and the other is willing to accept responsibility for the decision. IMO one of these is scummy, and your post was the scummier of the two. That you now claim you meant it the second way doesn't change that you said it the first.

This game is stalling hardcore. I repeat again that those not voting are absolutely doing it wrong.

[LimMePls]

Yes. The difference is that I stand by my decision firmly, not wishy washy "oh well, I had no choice". We always have choices. If you don't believe Feysal will flip scum, then you can CHOOSE to not lynch him. You are not being "forced" to. And by trying to paint it as "we have no choice" you are setting yourself up to "wash your hands of it" if the flip doesn't go your way. THAT is what I have a problem with. When the flip doesn't go the way I expect it to, I'm perfectly ready and willing to accept that I made a choice, not go "well shucks, we didn't have any alternatives".

[LimMePls]

I think Sathoris said it also, but I'd like to hear Feysal respond to my questions, smargarets questions, and any others people might have. I think it makes the most sense to hear what he has to say, then vote how we want.

And I think sitting around with our thumbs up our butts letting one player bottleneck the whole game is anti-town.

[LimMePls]

For that matter,

@MOD:

It's been 4 days since Feysal's last post. Before that he was on a long V/LA and by my count he's been prodded 4 times. Worst of all, he has spent ALL of days 2, 3, and 4 not voting (go look at the vote counts, I'm not exaggerating on this). Maybe its time to consider a forced replacement?

@Feysal: I know you're probably gonna take this personally and flip out like you did in [redacted], but there is nothing personal about this. I just want the game to move at a decent pace, and you seem disinterested in playing.

[LimMePls]

Feysal is 3 VOTES SHORT OF A HAMMER. Voting him will not hammer him. So flail for a different excuse for why you aren't voting please.

[LimMePls]

Feysal's PM

Hello Llamafluff and welcome to Cold War Mafia. You are

Erich Honecker, Soviet Neighbour

.

You're determined not to go to war and think you have an ally towards this end in your West-German neighbour Willy Brandt. Each night you can communicate with him here: http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/SHKvrr2nxy83
Please confirm by quoting your role back to me in a PM.
You win when all threats to peace have been killed.

smargaret's PM

Hello smargaret and welcome to Cold War Mafia. You are Willy Brandt, West-German Neighbour.

You're determined not to go to war and think you have an ally towards this end in your

East-German neighbour Erich Honecker.

Each night you can communicate with him here: http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/SHKvrr2nxy83
Please confirm by quoting your role back to me in a PM.
You win when all threats to peace have been killed.

*angryface*

THIS. This right here fucked the town hardcore.

GG scum.