Mini 1121: Nexusville Mafia.

[Zdenek]

/confirm

[Zdenek]

To answer the RQS questions:

I am in GMT

I don't really have a preference between RVS and RQS. I think RVS might have a slight edge over RVS because it creates confrontations right from the start.

I've finished 12 games so far.

I will usually post once or twice a day during the week, but it depends on how busy I am and the speed/urgency of the game. On weekends the amount I can post will fluctuate more.

Vote Silavor

Nameless already pointed out the reason. He gives reasons for his vote, but then says that its an RVS vote.

[Zdenek]

I'm a bit surprised that Implosion's vote on mongoose for distancing wasn't a joke.

I am not buying WOMC's "trap" argument, and I think

I would also call silavor scum, but his last point was quite good about implosion/mb53.

is ridiculous, since all silavor did was explain why implosion accused mongoose of distancing.

Aw, you guys aren't very good at detecting sarcastic humor, huh. Live and learn.

So you don't think that WOMC is scummy?

[Zdenek]

Aw, you guys aren't very good at detecting sarcastic humor, huh. Live and learn.

So you don't think that WOMC is scummy?

I do, but it's because he's trying to retcon a joke into a scum trap, not because he tried to make a joke vote.

Which comment did you think was sarcastic humour?'

I'm do not like Mongoose random voting this late in game, especially when there is someone who he thinks is scummy. It feels like he's taking the accusation of distancing too seriously.

[Zdenek]

silavor, I initially thought that you were referring to the post where you first voted Weapons, but I don't believe that you intended your initial vote on WOMC to be sarcastic humour. I think you voted WOMC for things that you think are scum tells, but reduced the severity of your vote but including a joke about it being RVS.

I agree with ICEninja that the unexplained/similar rankings in implosion's and mb's player rankings are very suspicious. I have often seen scum copy the reads of one another and of townies, so mb's choices are worse because he went second.

Implosion backtracked on his nameless scum-read, but mb completely ignored people's criticisms. I don't like that at all.

[Zdenek]

Wow really? Are you seriously not reading the thread?

Ooops, sorry. When you say,

For nameless, I don't like how he isn't really willing to answer questions. Even if you explained yourself, explain yourself again if asked to. Why not? Don't be difficult.

Are you referring just to the question about what was bothering him about Ninja's posts?

I like q21's catch, but he's quoted Silavor, not nameless.

[Zdenek]

I think out of all the players we have right now, Zdenek is the lurkiest. He drops in every now and then, but doesn't seem to have any strong opinions. His current vote is very outdated and very weak, really, and I haven't seen him give any further reason to be voting Silavor or anyone else right now. Zdenek, who do you find scummy and why?

I think I've been quite clear about who I think is scummy and why. Here's a recap:

I think Silavor is scummy because he gave real reasons for his early vote on WOMC, but in the same post he called it an RVS vote, and later tried to pass this off as a joke. I also like q21's scum-slip catch. By the way, this is a further reason for me to be voting Silavor.

I think mongoose is scummy for prolonging RVS with his random vote on q21, while he had stated that he found WOMC scummy.

I think that mb is scummy because I think that his explanation for placing nameless high on his scum list is contrived, and the only reason he put nameless high on his scum list is because implosion did. He said nothing about nameless until being called out for this, and his explanation is:

For nameless, I don't like how he isn't really willing to answer questions. Even if you explained yourself, explain yourself again if asked to. Why not? Don't be difficult.

I do not believe that "being difficult" is a scum tell, and even refusing to explain yourself isn't one.

Finally, I think WOMC is scummy for trying to explain away his RVS vote as a trap.

[Zdenek]

Wait, since when has purpousfully not answering questions been a null tell? That seem like a scum tell to me.

I probably should have said isn't necessarily a scum tell; like most things, I think it depends on the circumstances.

It's RVS, why are you taking it so seriously? How is it at all scummy?

I think you made a vote for serious reasons, but made sure that you had an escape clause built right into the vote, and then when you were called out on it tried to explain it away as a joke. I think doing both of these things is scummy.

Zdenek, would you continue to find silavor scummy had he not done what 21 "caught" him on?

I would still find him scummy, but I'd probably be voting mb instead.

[Zdenek]

Since when have I been "called out" for voting WoMC, and since when have I been trying to explain it away as a joke? It was RVS when I voted, obviously I voted jokingly, but I wouldn't still be voting WoMC if I didn't think he was scum. I fail to see how any of what I've done there is scummy.

Called out by nameless:

Vote:Weapon

for being jumpy, defensive, using IIoA as a scumtell on page

1

, and because it's still RVS.

Obvious self-contradiction is obvious. (Justifying your own vote / saying it's still random.)

Explained away as a joke.

Aw, you guys aren't very good at detecting sarcastic humor, huh. Live and learn.

[Zdenek]

Unvote
Vote Nameless

bad cases are scummy.

[Zdenek]

ICEninja, I think Silavor's first vote was quite scummy, but it's the fact that he tried to call it a joke later that bothers me the most. I see your point about the two person scum-team scum slip, and I agree that it is unlikely to be the case, unless there are two scum teams or this game is close to mountainous.

[Zdenek]

I changed my votes like that because it looked like nameless had a pretty good case on implosion being scum, but then implosion gave a pretty good defense post and I realised that the only scum motivation I could think of for implosion's posts would be if _over9000 was scum. Also, I'm not gonna stay on implosion, who is actually defending himself, when _over9000 still apparently requires more pressure to do so. (Hintedy hint hint, Mr. over.)

First you say that the case looked good, which implies that you read it and understood it, so you think Implosion is scum. Then you move your vote because he defends himself, and because Implosion is only scum if 9000 is scum. This seems to me like a bad excuse to move your vote and like lining up lynches. Also, when you say that for Implosion to be scummy 9000 must be scum, are you just referring to the fact that Implosion on longer wants to push the 9000 wagon?

Also. Why am I scum for posting a list, realize it was scummy, than warning others not to post one? How do I (assuming I'm scum) benefit from that?

I'm not all that concerned with the fact that you posted a list, it the order of the names on it that bothers me.

I just don't see how him re-doing a random vote would be beneficial to scum.

It indicates that he doesn't feel the urgency to scum hunt, and would rather goof off than make a serious argument. Maybe not beneficial to scum, but indicative of mindset that's not geared towards helping town.

[Zdenek]

I'm accusing 1216 of lining up lynches because of the fact that if 9000 flips scum, he'll want to lynch Implosion tomorrow, but also, my impression is that he's assuming that Implosion is scum, so I'm guessing that he'll want to lynch Implosion tomorrow even if 9000 flipped town.

1216, if over9000 was lynched, and flipped town, would you want to still be suspicious of Implosion?

I will read the walls soon.

[Zdenek]

Mod and all, I am going to be V/LA until Monday. It is not clear just how limited my access will be at the moment, but there is a pretty good chance that I won't be able to post until then.

On that note:

Unvote

[Zdenek]

I'm back and reading:

First of all, I think that q21 had a good point about King's blindly sheeping nameless onto the Implosion wagon, which was pretty weak. However, I think the description of the entire event in Post 207, wasn't completely correct as King pointed out. I'm willing to chalk it up to an honest mistake, especially since q21 is being replaced.

Silavor's 212 is incredibly lazy. He's sticking hard to his RVS vote, and doesn't mention anything other than WOMC in it.

Saint:

This is good to see your town meta. Hi darth!

It is nice to see the town suspecting the same people I am suspecting.

Reeks of having too much information and of buddying.

I have a read so far.
You.
As the SK.

An SK read, before there are multiple kills? This seems like a scummy attempt to distract the town from scum hunting or to seem pro-active and townie by looking for all sorts of anti-town characters.

Zdenek: Thoughts on King12?

Leaning scum, but not that strong of a read. I thought that Neil was fairly scummy, but he replaced out, and I'm willing to partially forgive the slot for that. I also think that King's sheeping of Nameless's argument was weak.

I need a day to think about things, but here's a placeholder vote until tomorrow, mainly it's because 9000 didn't say much and Saint's catchup seemed scummy

Vote Saint.

[Zdenek]

(Just by the way, I advise you all to be aware of Empkings meta)

Mind telling us what we should know?

Saint, I swear to God I would lynch you right now if you had a wagon

He's got one. Yoshi also pointed this out. It also seems like a poor reason to not vote someone.

Unvote
Vote Nameless.

[Zdenek]

IP, I didn't vote mongoose, because I wanted to keep my vote on Silavor.

Keep in mind that only Darth and implosion had their votes on him. So many people suspect him, but no one else wants to vote him? This is setting off major alarms in my head.

That reason for think mongoose is scummy is terrible. There is no way that someone not being voted for doing something like mongoose did, is a scum tell.

340 is epic. Just epic. Not necessarily evidence against Saint, but epic.

Please explain this.

For all I know, Ice is the only one who has read any of my posts.

I read them, and I'm happy we seemed to be in agreement about Silavor.

We have less than a week before deadline. I'm sticking with the ice wagon until I get a response from more players on it.

I'll comment on your case:

I think going after someone for a an RVS joke is slightly scummy, and I think that WOMC comes out of the exchange looking worse.

I think that your comments about distancing should wait until after a flip.

Your point about him calling nameless out about reads, but not implosion is null.

He definitely changes reads on Saint, but Saint is scummy, so who cares.

Anyway, I think there are better lynches than ICEninja today.

[Zdenek]

I found his 64 terrible as well, however, the fact that I find him scummy and so does everyone else and his mother, yet he's garnering little votes for it, make's it look like he's scum and his buddies are just going "yeah, he's scummy" but aren't willing to bus.

Using relationship tells before a flip usually doesn't work too well.

Nameless' 380: I disagree with his accusation that Empking was trolling KTS.

You could be arrogant IRL, in which case stop and think a little further ahead before you post next time. For all I know you could just be an actual troll who needs to play to their win condition or gtfo.

Arguing using non-game related drivel about how Empking might be IRL, is a pointless waste of time.

Zedenek- You say there are better lynches than Ice today. Is this implying that otherwise, Ice might be a good lynch?

I do not think that Ice would be a good lynch today.

Yeah, I don't believe you. Nor do I see King lying about anything. It's also really funny how you're saying King is "100% scum", but you're not even voting him. Darth already pointed this out, though.

Why are you writing off Empking's mason claim so quickly?

I think Empking's mason claim goes part of the way to explain his behaviour: one can get away with a lot more if one has a claim that can clear them.

[Zdenek]

Zedenek--You keep saying Ice isn't a good lynch today, but I'm not wondering about today, I'm wondering about in general, do you think he might be a good lynch? You seem to be trying to skirt the issue.

I don't have strong enough reads to take anyone's lynch off the table for the entire game at this point. If by "in general" you mean in a more general situation than that, your question is too hypothetical for me to answer.

Mod and all: I am going to be V/LA until Wednesday.

I should still be able to check the thread, so if I am needed for something, I should be able to post, but that is not 100% clear to me at the moment.

[Zdenek]

I really just wanna know if you think Ice is scummy. I didn't think this would be so difficult. It's not going to make a difference for today, but I would like you to say one way or the other before the day is over.

I do not think that ICE is scummy.

If emp is a mason, there is likely a cop that could look into it.

Normally Mason's are used as a way to balance games without using a cop, so it is unlikely that there will be a cop in the game.

I have no idea why I thought implosion was town.

I don't like this change of heart, especially after ICEninja's post 500.

I really have to wonder about King's focusing on WOMC in 504, after it's been announced that WOMC is likely to be replaced.

Nameless' 509 is terrible. He parks his vote on a claimed mason, asks Saint to answer to his accusations (if he's scum, you want to to give him a chance to talk his way out of it?) He defends Implosion for some reason that I don't understand. Pro-town fluff: "There's been so MANY lurkers / flakers in this game it's gonna be hard to figure out who is actually scummy without some serious poking, though. This should happen during D2." While I agree with the sentiment that "if Empking flips scum, then Set needs to be analyzed," I do not like that he follows this with "Don't forget q21's dodgy play in that slot either." If he thought q21 was dodgy, shouldn't he think that Set should be analyzed anyway? He attacks Neko for being hypocritical because he changed his mind about the Empking lynch, as though Empking's claim shouldn't make a difference. I agree with his observation about KTS attacking WOMC after he is likely to be replaced.

I don't understand why IP says that this was good posting in 525, especially since he follows that comment up with a vote on Saint, and this was after disregarding Empking's claim soon after it was made.

LOL:

Empking being alive for another day is more likely to distract from scumhunting and let certain players get away with lurking rather than help the town.

mb53 is obviously one such player, but Zdenek comes to mind as coasting a lot too. There's been so MANY lurkers / flakers in this game it's gonna be hard to figure out who is actually scummy without some serious poking, though. This should happen during D2.

Setael: 'Refusing to participate' and 'ignoring everything' are funny scummy ways to rephrase 'have IRL stuff to do'.

Anyway, I still think that Nameless is scum, I understand the cases on Saint, mb and KTS, but it doesn't look like many others agree with a Nameless or KTS lynch. Saint has claimed VT, so I guess I'd prefer his lynch in a pinch to mb's if only to avoid outing power-roles.

[Zdenek]

Zdenek, if you still think Nameless is scum, do you think it is more likely that Saint is his partner than mb?

I'd say that it is more likely that mb is his partner than Saint because I'd be surprised if Nameless was bussing this early in the game. I only said that I'd support lynching Saint over mb to avoid outing power-roles.

What? Are you saying we shouldn't ask people to answer accusations, we should just lynch them without letting them respond?

No, but he's had his chance and he ignored the case on him, and I see no reason to keep giving him opportunities to respond. It's BS like this from you that would make me really happy with your lynch.

[Zdenek]

Swift replacing in and immediately saying that he doesn't like that Empking was insinuating that he his is scum buddy was anti-town, and it bothers me.

Setael also pointed this out.

Nameless, please explain what your 526 has to do with your 509, where you said

This'll be my last post before the (current) deadline. I'm leaving my vote on Empking,

and the fact that I called that parking your vote on a claimed Mason.

6 hours != lurking, obv.

You missed the point. One could easily say that saying " certain players are lurking rather than helping the town" is a scummy way to rephrase 'have IRL stuff to do'.

I'm still a bit worried about Empking, but if he's scum then he is guaranteed going to die before the game is over so he isn't a huge priority for me right now.

Please explain this.

Vote Nameless

[Zdenek]

Nameless, I wasn't accusing you of lurking or active lurking.

No I said I didn't like him insinuating I was his mason partner (as he had claimed Mason), so scum slip much there.

It's not a scum-slip. It's just that we think of players being scum-buddies more often than about them being masons, and I used the wrong word. I have no idea why I did it.

@Zdenek and Swiftstrike: Could each of you explain the scumslips you saw in one another? Saying they are scumslips doesn't make them scumslips--I'm wondering if I'm missing something, and the extreme brevity isn't helping.

I don't think that Swift made a scum-slip. I think outing himself as not being a mason with Empking was anti-town because it narrowed down the field of candidates for that role.

[Zdenek]

Your last post just cemented it (and also made me pretty sure you know Saint is town).

Explain how you get this from ICE's post.

Since Saint is Furclow, I will not vote him unless someone can point out something scummy that he's done that has clear scum motivation. Because of meta, asking for the mass claim doesn't count; I was in a game with him when he was town and proposed that we no lynch a day early because of set-up speculation.

This thread needs more implosion, Emp, and Zdenek. And votes for Saint.

Why did you leave Implosion off the list?

[Zdenek]

I'd hoped to have time to make a post today, but it doesn't look like I will have a chance.

Mod and everyone: I will be V/LA until Sunday

I apologize for these frequent absences. I've been traveling a lot these past three weeks, but my schedule will calm down after this week.

[Zdenek]

I am here and reading to get caught up with and back into the game. I'll make a post with content by tomorrow night, and hopefully sooner.

My initial thoughts:

I believe that everyone except Empking has posted today, and no one has claimed to be masons with Empking.

Empking, will your partner be claiming today?

In a game with a cop and masons, I strongly doubt that there is a doctor, so there is almost no question that you will be killed tonight if your partner doesn't claim. I think that there would be a lot of benefit for us to have two confirmed town out today, and one tomorrow, rather than just one tomorrow.

I tried to do some wagon analysis by looking at all wagons with four or more people on them. Unless I missed something, on only one is there one person who's unconfirmed while the others are all confirmed town. It was very early in the game. At the moment, I don't think there is much to learn by analyzing the wagons.

[Zdenek]

Empking, will your partner be claiming today?

He will not.

Why not?

[Zdenek]

Empking, will your partner be claiming today?

He will not.

Why not?

That's not the pro-town thing to do.

You need to give a better explanation than that.

[Zdenek]

I am working to get caught up. I will hopefully finish tomorrow.

I think that there is a reasonable case that can be made against Setael (for pushing what I feel was a very weak case against ICE yesterday, and the argument against Implosion that ICE investigated him yesterday and got scum).

While I am not a big fan of the case on Implosion based on ICE's posts, but after skimming his ISO, I can see that there is a reasonable case that can be made on him. In particular, I would like to point out that in his more recent post, he comments that he doesn't have any scum reads. This can be a scum-tell because of the difficulty that scum can have faking scum hunting. Because of this, I am not too unhappy with the fact that he claimed. I'm pretty doubtful that there will be any other pro-town roles in a game with masons (assuming Empking is telling the truth) and a cop, and anyone could figure that out, so the VT claim was expected.

I am very concerned about the possibility that Empking isn't killed before we get to lylo, which could be tomorrow. In which case, we'll have two people of the same unconfirmed alignment, and we will have to decide in lylo if we trust the two of them. I think I would rather have one confirmed town in lylo, than have to deal with this possibility and Empking could very well be scum, so I would support an Empking lynch.

Darth, you were suspicious of Empking before, but now you don't want him to claim his buddy unless it is to prevent his lynch. What's changed?

[Zdenek]

The questions I've been asked about Empking are now irrelevant. if anyone still wants me to answer, say so.

Zedenek--so you're comfortable possibly putting us in lylo just to avoid having Emp in lylo?
...
earlier today you said there's almost no doubt emp will be killed tonight. Now we need to lynch emp to make sure he doesn't live to tomorrow.

Had Empking not been lying, I think that the best play would have been for the other mason to claim today (in which case, if we believed them, one of them would have been nk'ed). Assuming that didn't happen, Empking could be scum, in which case lynching him would be good, and if he was a mason, then, if we lynched Empking, his buddy would have been confirmed tomorrow provided that there were breadcrumbs and that he wasn't nightkilled. Considering the relationships of other players with Empking, it seemed like the chances of the other mason being nk'ed were pretty much random (at worst 1/4, which isn't too bad). I think these are both better scenarios than having to decide in lylo (assuming we mislynch today) if the two claimed masons (one of whom is quite suspicious) are telling the truth. This could have happened if we neither lynched Empking today nor had his buddy claim.

As far as the Saint business is concerned, I was V/LA and didn't have time to respond because the day ended so quickly.

I'm fine with voting Empking when we are ready to end the day.

[Zdenek]

Zdenek: You've said there's a reasonable case against Setael and implosion, as well as being fine with lynching Empking. Do you think these players are likely to be the scumteam, or do you still suspect me / others?

My first suspect is Setael because of the terrible cases he's been pushing the last two days. I'm finding it hard to use the interactions between players to try to judge who could be on the same scum team because of the play of mb and Saint: both of them were so likely to be lynched days one and two that it would have been fairly safe for scum to attack one another without the fear of one of the partners being lynched. However, I am less suspicious of you than before because I'd be surprised if Empking (assuming that he's scum) was bussing you, and my gut says that you genuinely believed the arguments you were pushing against Saint. Also, I am skeptical of the idea that Setael was just bussing Implosion. I'm hesitant to say more because I am hoping that the nightkills will narrow down my picks for the third partner.

[Zdenek]

Nameless, you are correct, I was mistaken about mb53, and I think you are right to be suspicious of the people on his wagon. It does seem like it could have been constructed by scum to protect Empking (if that is what you are getting at in your post).

DarthYoshi, yes, assuming that both Empking and Setael are scum. If they planned to push their third buddy, Implosion early today, I don't think that Empking would have claimed so easily. I think that the only way that plan could have benefitted them is if they managed to get Implosion lynched today, and then for one of them, Setael, to use the town-cred from that lynch to avoid being lynched. I think that Empking flipping scum looks bad for Setael, so they would have preferred to delay his lynch as long as possible. Also, there was a perfectly good case against Implosion that had already been laid out, and I think that if Setael knew that Implosion was scum, he wouldn't have felt the need to push the additional and what I think is a very poor argument against him that ICE must have investigated Implosion and received a guilty result.

[Zdenek]

Setael, I think you would look bad because you started the wagon on mb53, which could have been used to protect Empking.

Vote Empking

[Zdenek]

KTS is my biggest townread,

Really? Please explain this.

[Zdenek]

I thought he looked like town when he was arguing with Empking. He had logic and didn't look like mafia.

My read on KTS might be partially gut... he just seemed to be making sense when arguing with Empking. It also might just be that Emp was making no sense and KTS looked good by comparison.

KTS struck me as scummy in that argument. I think that a lot of their conversation was just theory, in particular the parts about the value of explaining votes, such conversations are very easy for scum to participate in, seem reasonable and pro-town, but without doing any actual scum hunting.

Let's also not forget Neil, although that might be a little unfair to 1216.

[Zdenek]

Setael, Neko's post,

vote: implosion for making silly declarations and drawing inane connections on page one. This game is probably moving out of RVS rather quickly but dammit I haven't even posted yet!

is not that much like Silavor's. His comment does imply that his vote is RVS, but I feel that he didn't try to disown his argument by saying that his vote is an RVS vote the way that Silavor did:

Vote:Weapon
for being jumpy, defensive, using IIoA as a scumtell on page 1, and because it's still RVS.

Silavor's vote really gives me a different feeling and the fact that he tried to brush it off as a joke afterwards is what actually bothered me about him.

Cognitive dissonance alert: I'd also like to point out the following.

1) neko wanted to distance from his scum buddy implosion with his "random" vote. Because it was distancing he felt like he needed a real reason and exaggerated what implosion had actually done, while all the while hiding behind that second sentence which implied it was a random vote. 2) neko is scum trying to cast suspicion on implosion town while avoiding responsibility by hiding behind the sentence implying it's a random vote. I don't see a possibility of this post being made by town.]

This post indicates a connection between neko and zdenek, since here zdenek votes silavor for doing exactly what neko had just done, but he says nothing about neko.

He says that he couldn't see Neko's post coming from town, and that Silavor's post does exactly the same thing as Neko's, but let's all remember that Silavor was town.

Combining this with the fact that his argument against Yoshi was really reaching, the fact that he has completely dropped Implosion as a suspect today despite the fact that is argument yesterday identified him as scum independently of whatever flips have occurred and the fact that the other three people on the early WoMC wagon have all flipped town, I think he's a good candidate for scum, and I'd like to hear what others think of him.

[Zdenek]

Setael, that wasn't a defence of Neko. It was a defence of my early vote on Silavor. Also, I did say something about Darth: I think your case on him is reaching.

What makes you think that ICE got an innocent on Nameless?

[Zdenek]

You mean you think I'm a good candidate for a mislynch, but in order to avoid negative attention you'd prefer others to get their hands dirty.

I've given reasons for why I am suspicious of you.

I said this yesterday - the way ice said he reread nameless and decided he was town looked like he had possibly investigated him and gotten a town result.

Are you ignoring this?

To be honest I'm not perfectly sure how I'd feel about Nameless based on a town Saint flip.

We should mass claim. I'm fine with popcorn style and I don't object to going first, but if someone would like to propose an order, I'm okay with that too.

[Zdenek]

I'm VT. I'd like Swiftstrike to go next.

[Zdenek]

Well, I think Setael should claim first because of his early vote.

I held off on commenting because we were in the middle of a mass-claim, but this strikes me as scummy. It feels like he was looking to get the person who he thinks is most likely to be a power role to claim first.

Swift's saying that he never thought using his vig was never a good idea and then saying that he tried to use it last night seems like bs to me. It feels like he came up with two ways to convince us that his claim is true and then used them both unnecessarily.

[Zdenek]

I believe the vig claim, actually. The breadcrumb looks legitimate, and in my opinion the stranger a claim is the more likely it is to be true (that is, I don't see him making up this much stuff as scum).

A vig claim is not strange and scum can bread-crumb. The problem that I have is that I think he made up two things, which are incompatible.

What? Where did you get that from?

Then please explain why Setael's early vote made you want him to claim first?

KTS is town.

Please bullet your argument for this.

I want to wait and vote until everyone comments about Darth's statement, but if activity drops off again, I'll vote darth again tomorrow to avoid getting too close to deadline.

I didn't before because of Neko's request:

I want to wait to comment on the point Swift bolded until Yoshi responds, and I would like others to as well.

and I am going to continue to wait. I'll explain why after he's responded.

[Zdenek]

Anyway, I didn't want to comment on Yoshi's potential slip before because I didn't want to feed him answers, and I hoped to get a better read off of him if he was town under the pressure of perhaps having cost his team the game with it, but it didn't help.

First off, you didn't answer the question.

I didn't realize that you felt so strongly about Setael's early vote, and I can definitely see someone being a power-role with information as being a reason to vote someone immediately in LYLO.

Actually, quick poll: who would have guessed there could be a mafia roleblocker before Swift and Yoshi mentioned it?

No, but I'd have said yes after the vig-claim because I've played in a similar set-up before.

The mod's post made me realize that scum's best bet is actually to stall. If they can get us to just talk until deadline without coming to a consensus, they win. This is clearly what they're doing with so little activity here. It would also make it much easier to pull off a mislynch if they can stall for a few days, because votes could pile on quickly if it's really close to deadline.

This is more BS from Setael. She's casting a blanket of doubt over everyone with this accusation.

At the moment, I'd most like to lynch Setael, and if we are going to lynch someone based on a potential scum-slip, I'd lynch Swift over Yoshi because I think that the way Swift claimed is worse than what could have been a slip from Yoshi.

[Zdenek]

And what would be my scum motivation for that?

So that you can change your mind about who you want to lynch at the drop of a hat.

Do you feel that activity on this thread is reasonable for a deadline-in-4-days-lylo?

More would be better, but things are always slow over weekends, and it should pick up.

If the reason I voted Darth was because I'm a PR with information on him, don't you think I'd have said so at this point?

Not if you thought you could push the lynch and avoid a night kill.

I also find it hard to believe that you didn't realize KTS "felt so strongly" about my early vote when he had made it abundantly clear.

Before he basically said that you shouldn't have voted.

right now I'm leaning toward a scum team of darth, neko and zed.

I'm actually wary of a Zdenek-Neko scum pairing which would mean Darth is prob town.

Changing opinions for no apparent reason, and this happened after Yoshi's apparent slip to which Setael had to say:

This sentence really points to Darth being scum.

Regarding Swiftstrike's claim:

Yeah... I don't believe you.

But Swift doesn't appear as a suspect of Setael's later.

Setael's play has been inconsistent all day.

Vote Setael

[Zdenek]

IP, you were basically killed because other people were arguing with each other and keeping them alive was useful.

I think that town was hurt tby the number of early replacements; that really kept them from getting good town reads on each other and working together. Saint's self-hammer and Empking's gambit hurt the town immensely as well.

Neko, you have nothing to apologize for your play in LYLO. I was definitely trying to fake distancing with Implosion in case I got lynched.