Mini 1137: Long Overdue Mafia [Game Over!]

[Voidedmafia]

/conformed.

Oi, you ain't conforming to anything, you planet!

You say /confirm, like that, got it?

/confirm

[Voidedmafia]

Well, if we're at that stage already...

vote: voidedmafia

Because that ain't no planet, that's our sun.

*squints*

really?

[Voidedmafia]

Here we go...

[Voidedmafia]

Lol, modkilled!

[Voidedmafia]

Jinxx: Lol, moddemolished!

There, better?

[Voidedmafia]

1. After 3-4:00 P.M. Central Mondays-Fridays (maybe later if I have golf or detentions; all day Saturday; 8:00-8:40 A.M. Central, 12:00-4:00 P.M. Central, and 6:00-10:30 P.M. Central Sundays
2. Dunno. This game (and two other newbies) are the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th games I've ever played.

And before you ask, I'm not joining in RVS.

[Voidedmafia]

No, I think that sounds works, too.

[Voidedmafia]

Keeping my vote on voided for posting, but not contributing anything.

Oh, dear, I'm not RVSing, I MUST be scummy/actual scum!

Hmm.. drawing attention to yourself by outright refusing to random vote isn't something I'd expect a scum player to do ... not sure why a town player would do either though so would interested to hear from Voided:

a) Why he has refused
b) What he thinks is the best way of starting a game if not RVS

His answers (and lack of any questions himself) don't seem to show a massive enthausiasm for RQS either.

a.) I don't wish to participate.
b.) i don't care.

And yes, I don't care much for that, either. Though knowing timezones does help for when you're waiting for someone else to reply and you're wondering where they are.

[Voidedmafia]

Voided, why so tense already? This game should be fun, and while I'm not saying that not participating in RVS is scummy, it's not particularly team oriented. Maybe could turn into something anti-town later on, but as of yet I've seen nothing conclusive about his play style.

I'm not tense, I'm blunt.

FoS:

Pappums rat.
Already pushing someone as scum without any evidence and very few posts seems more scummy than not participating in RVS.

Good point.

[Voidedmafia]

Why do you not think it's right? From the looks of things, he's trying to defend you, in a way.

[Voidedmafia]

Rather quick with that reveal, aren't you? Maybe YOU'RE worried about your scumbuddy instead?

But then, that raises the question: Why go after me, then, since I haven't really tried to go after you?

...wait...YOU DON'T SAY WHAT YOUR PM TELLS YOU, YOU IDIOT.

[Voidedmafia]

I'm referring to the part about sanity, not the role reveal, just so you know.

[Voidedmafia]

My point is that there's absolutely no reason to claim such a role now, which makes me wonder why he didi it. The first question that came to mind was if HE was trying to get protection for scumbuddies. I don't know if it's true, though, but it's the first question that came to me.

All in all, this is a VERY suspicious post that pappums has made.

[Voidedmafia]

Honestly, this sounds more like Rat just picked a random target and then just decided to give him a guilty verdict.

However, I believe that in this kind of game there can also be naive or insane or paranoid cops, which would make his claim practically useless otherwise.

The one big overhanding question, though, is this: Why the hell didya pick me? Don't like the fact that I'm not really participating? Still ticked off that I didn't participate in RVS?

[Voidedmafia]

Xalxe: Well, for the first option, you're a little wrong since this is a "one-shot" day cop. So, after this, he's practically useless for anything other than being a townie.

Mikemike: Those kinds of cops don't have to be told their paranoid/insane/naive. Only that they're cops. So I take that claim with a grain of salt. Also, how do you know there isn't?

However, to everyone esle, what else do you all think I've done that jumps out as scummy? As much as you might wish to believe his claim, you still ought to have your own reasons for voting beyond that.

[Voidedmafia]

eh...is that l-1 or something? I don't remember...-_-

[Voidedmafia]

Why is that? Your only reason for voting me is demolished now that I'm more active (and quite honestly, it was still somewhat in RVS, which is why I wasn't really contributing)

[Voidedmafia]

Why is that? Your only reason for voting me is demolished now that I'm more active (and quite honestly, it was still somewhat in RVS, which is why I wasn't really contributing)

You may be active, but you aren't really... saying anything. Also, GUT.

Neither are you. Also, GUT FEELING I'M TOWN AND RAT'S SCUM.

[Voidedmafia]

Neither are you. Also, GUT FEELING I'M TOWN AND RAT'S SCUM.

...gosh, really? I never would've guessed that. I mean really, who disagrees with the person who calls them scum?

Point is, make effort besides stating the obvious. You're probably getting strung up anyway, but on the off chance you're town, we'd like some help going into tomorrow.

Well, my point is is that Jinxx is being slightly hypocritical in that he hasn't been active lately, nor has he posted content. Granted, he had V/LA as an excuse, but still.

And right now I'm just focusing more on proving that rat's claim is false and stupid without getting myself lynched in the process. If I escape this particular hole, I'd be glad to start scumhunting again.

In light of that, you all might want to lay down your top 3 suspects (I would say top 2, but I'm fairly sure that Rat's gonna fall next if I'm lynched, so that'd make him suspect #1) so far.

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: And that his gut feeling isn't enough to me.

[Voidedmafia]

Why does it bother you that he's defending you? You think he's buddying you or trying to cover up something?

[Voidedmafia]

Why does it bother you that he's defending you? You think he's buddying you or trying to cover up something?

The first, yes. I think that if he were ever to turn up scum, that's an easy way to say ZOMG XALXE PARTNER LYNCHLYNCHLYNCH.

well, I could see how you could draw that conclusion.

Also, beyond Pappum's claim, what makes you think I'm your top (or 2nd) suspect?

[Voidedmafia]

Nope, pappums' claim. That's it, but it's certainly an issue that can't be avoided.

Sadly enough.

Anyways, my two suspects are Rat, ofc, for his claim, and jinxx because he has almost nothing behind his vote. I'm not counting the claim with him because he's kept his vote on me before that came up. Beyond that, I can't really choose anyone because their primary reason for voting me is becasue of Pappum's claim. I do wonder if something can be made out of that IK/you/Jahudo stuff, though, but I'm not sure what, exactly.

[Voidedmafia]

voided mafia, it would be wise to claim now

Andrew, it would be wise to start participating more.

Anyways, I claim Neighbor. 'Course, since we're still not N1 yet, I haven't picked anyone, but yeah.

[Voidedmafia]

...

YOU'RE THE ONE WHO PUSHED MY LYNCH IN THE FIRST PLACE!!

[Voidedmafia]

Rather quick with that reveal, aren't you? Maybe YOU'RE worried about your scumbuddy instead?

But then, that raises the question: Why go after me, then, since I haven't really tried to go after you?

...wait...YOU DON'T SAY WHAT YOUR PM TELLS YOU, YOU IDIOT.

what 'scumbuddy' are you talking about?
what does

'Why go after me, then, since I haven't really tried to go after you?'

mean? shouldnt i go after whoever came up as scum in my investigation?

quoting

a pm is against the rules, not paraphrasing.

I'm not going to answer that first part, because that should be obvious enough.

You just decided to pick on me, given nothing other than the fact that I did not wish to participate in RVS, and came up with a guilty. I find it pretty intriguing that I'm the one you picked over someone else, like IdiotKing, for example. Though, now that you mention it, nearly every post of yours has had something to do with me, all of 'em acting as if I am scum.

My point is that there's absolutely no reason to claim such a role now, which makes me wonder why he didi it. The first question that came to mind was if HE was trying to get protection for scumbuddies. I don't know if it's true, though, but it's the first question that came to me.

All in all, this is a VERY suspicious post that pappums has made.

there is a reason to claim, i have irrefutable proof that you are scum. (i used my one-shot early because i had a very good gut feeling that voidedmafia was scum).
why is my post suspicious? does it make sense for scum to make this kind of insane play, especially against a new player?
why would scum do something like this to ease pressure off of their buddies?

to

YOU

, it's irrefutable. To us...not so much. Also, I'd call myself anti-town more than scummy.

I'm not technically new, but still.

why wouldn't they? It gives the town something else to think about, and in this case, someone else to lynch.

And right now I'm just focusing more on proving that rat's claim is false and stupid without getting myself lynched in the process. If I escape this particular hole, I'd be glad to start scumhunting again.

why do you say my claim is stupid? you cant prove my claim is false because my role is allowed in normal games.

I say it's stupid because it's wrong. And I have irrefutable proof of that, since a Neighbor is town.

voided mafia, it would be wise to claim now

Andrew, it would be wise to start participating more.

Anyways, I claim Neighbor. 'Course, since we're still not N1 yet, I haven't picked anyone, but yeah.

what do you mean 'i havent picked anyone'? neighbors dont pick who they want to be neighbors with, they are assigned a person at the beginning of the game.[/quote]
Yeah they do. -_-

[Voidedmafia]

Neighbors don't choose their night talk partners.

Well, I can't say anymore since that'd be talking about my PM, but yes I can.

Voided looks like he could be trying to reason with Xalxe and Mikemike in post 113, like they could be townies he could get on his side still. And then he suspects Jinxx in post 131. I wonder if he would think to distance at that point, or if he still thinks he could swing a lynch that's not himself or pappums. Maybe Jinxx is town too, although I feel a little more confident about the post 113 tell.

I'd prefer to get the lynch away from me, maybe onto pappums or Jinxx. Really, anyone but me until I get out of this mess.

What tell does 113 give you? At that point I honestly thought cops other than Sane were available to Mini Normals.

[Voidedmafia]

pappums: Lynching you is/was an option where we believe you are liarscum, so we lynch you to test. Obviously this is sub-optimal.

Also, voided's defense is...better than I expected, actually. He hasn't laid down without a fight.

what if he is liartown, instead? It's certainly a possibility, though I still think he's a liarscum.

And thanks, I guess.

Rat: and what do YOU think of my defense?

[Voidedmafia]

It looks like he's mostly resigned himself to being lynched.

Considering that I think his claim is bollocks, and that I think there's little reason for him to do so, yet everyone is still going along with it, why wouldn't I?

- Voided hasn't placed a vote on Pappums, which I cannot understand.

You're right: I should've voted Pappums immediately after he put forth the claim, or when he unvoted. Those were both mistakes on my part, along with I suppose a too-cautious approach. Now I feel as if if I voted, I'd somehow be falling to the wishes of the town for me to vote, period. Irrational? I suppose, but it's still making me stay my hand.

- He has ignored the other votes on him and everyone else's reaction, only talking about Jinxx. He should be guessing if pappums has a buddy or two supporting him, but this looks like he doesn't want to make any connections to anyone else.

Not that I don't want to make connections with everyone else, but everyone is just about as equally resigned to my lynch as I am. I could find some non-pappums links, though.

- The claim was a poor one. Neighbors can't pick their night talking partner. Another role can, but not "Neighbor", so you know he's lying. I'm a little surprised scum wouldn't pick a better claim like miller, to leave some doubt about his alignment, or another power role like doctor to try and draw a counter-claim into the open. But I'm guessing that voided is just inexperienced scum and thought neighbor would be a safer, less obvious choice?

No, I didn't not think it was a safer, less obvious choice, I said it because it is my role. Also, unless my PM lied, I can choose my neighbor in N1.

no, wait, actually it's Neighborizer, not just Neighbor. -_- FFS why did I have to misread that and think they were the same thing?

And I wouldn't be stupid enough to risk a doc counter-claim. Even if it did bring out the real doctor, that leaves a potential NK and me looking scummier by the second, which is NOT what I want at all.

---

voided mafia, it would be wise to claim now

Out of curiousity, what did you hope to get out of this question if you already believed pappums claim?

Considering how much he's been on the sidelines with only 3-5 posts to his name here, I'm inclined to think that its either anti-prod or just to have a semblance of participation.

However, that is a good question.

[Voidedmafia]

It looks like he's mostly resigned himself to being lynched.

Considering that I think his claim is bollocks, and that I think there's little reason for him to do so, yet everyone is still going along with it, why wouldn't I?

Voided....why should we not believe pappum's claim? What would be his incentive to not tell the truth? I believe the different possibilities have already been covered well enough and there aren't any good ones I can see that involve pappum lying.

I think a one shot day investigative role that returns inaccurate results would be a pretty crappy role to put in the town. Also...I think your claim is pretty fishy as you claimed you were going to be picking your neighbors at night (which I do not believe is how the Neighbor role is set up to work) and then you change your role to the Neighborizer. That's a pretty unusual role IMO opinion to forget and/or confuse with just a standard Neighbor.

I'm assuming your "Neighborizer" is someone who can recruit/select others to be his neighbor. I'm not familiar with this role (like a cult leader?) but it could just as easily be a sccum aligned role. And as has already been mentioned...if you aren't scum, then wth is pappums doing?

At least you should have some solace in the fact that is pappums' result is not accurate...that he is probably next on the gallows.

[Voidedmafia]

Oh, damn it! I thought what I had typed had been saved!

It looks like he's mostly resigned himself to being lynched.

Considering that I think his claim is bollocks, and that I think there's little reason for him to do so, yet everyone is still going along with it, why wouldn't I?

Voided....why should we not believe pappum's claim? What would be his incentive to not tell the truth? I believe the different possibilities have already been covered well enough and there aren't any good ones I can see that involve pappum lying.

Pappums had voted for me in RVS becasue I flat-out said I wasn't going to participate. Later, he asked me if I have ever been scum before, which also heavily implies that he thinks I am scum. Claiming a one-shot day cop A.) Gets others to go with him on me being scum without everyone second-guessing what his motives could be, b.) potentially quicklynches me (I know he didn't want that, but it was still a possibility, like if Jerbs came back and vote for me while I was still at L-1), and c.) Keeps him safe from a cop counter because being a one-shot claim means he's just a regular townie after the usage. Arguably the only flaw in the plan is if I'm actually town or town-aligned, which puts him on the block tomorrow (and I don't need to be scum to point out that NKing him would be stupid since he'd be lynched tomorrow barring some other case gets thrown up before he's hammered. It'd just be a waste of a NK.).

I think a one shot day investigative role that returns inaccurate results would be a pretty crappy role to put in the town. Also...I think your claim is pretty fishy as you claimed you were going to be picking your neighbors at night (which I do not believe is how the Neighbor role is set up to work) and then you change your role to the Neighborizer. That's a pretty unusual role IMO opinion to forget and/or confuse with just a standard Neighbor.

I'm assuming your "Neighborizer" is someone who can recruit/select others to be his neighbor. I'm not familiar with this role (like a cult leader?) but it could just as easily be a sccum aligned role. And as has already been mentioned...if you aren't scum, then wth is pappums doing?

To answer the first and last part, at this point I'm more inclined to believe its pappums trying to get my lynch through getting all of you to follow along becasue he's a cop.

TO answer the inner part, that was an honest mistake on my part. I read the role for Neighborizer, and over the past days I got it into my head that it and neighbor did the same thing, forgetting about and ignoring the "-izer" part to my role. And you'd have to trust me on it being town-aligned.

At least you should have some solace in the fact that is pappums' result is not accurate...that he is probably next on the gallows.

I do, somewhat, but I'd prefer to be alive when he is lynched to be satisfied then, not dead in the ground and pacificied that his death came right after.

[Voidedmafia]

I have to say, I am impressed with the way Voided has been coming back from pappums' claim. If we were still on the first page and I had to guess, Voided would have been the person I'd expect to blow up fastest at being targeted and him having not done that is surprising. Even though his reaction is not up to what I had anticipated, that's not to say that he's not just uber awesome at keeping calm under pressure. And I've never heard of a neighborizer role before.

What with you being "Why so serious?" to me and all?

The slip from him saying neighbor at first to neighborizer later is also suspicious. Seems like he was just rifling through potential roles, misread one, and now being called on it has to make something else up. Acting like it was just a simple error is a good way of making other people think he actually knew what he was doing. It's a simple and effective lying tactic to keep attention off of a slip up like that.

Oh, dear god, I hope I don't start doing THAT. That is not something I'd want to do at all.

All that said I don't think we need to wait the entire continuation of this day unless someone is going to admit to being scum, and I think it would be more useful to learn if Voided is actually scum or not before continuing on with deliberations over who his buddies are. We can always come back and re read these pages tomorrow, and knowing explicitly who is lying would definitely be better than throwing random guesses around.

With everyone so focused on me, no one else is trying to hunt anyone else, and I'm not excluding myself from that, either. And I'll start now by asking this: why you think no one else has jumped out as scummy? (from ISO #10)

[Voidedmafia]

Okay, then, assume that Pappums never claimed and none of this is going on. Who would be your top suspects?

[Voidedmafia]

I don't buy voided's claim (neighbor became neighborizor only under pressure)

No, neighbor becasme neibghborizer becasue I realized my mistake. Pressure had nothing to do with it beyond making me realize what that mistake was.

Voided's responses to Jahudo look like flailing.

Why would that be? Only part that looks like flailing to me is the part where I realize I had claimed the wrong role.

I haven't had time to look for partners for voided. That might be fruitful, although he's spent most of his posts protecting himself.

Becasue, yknow, I don't have any? (Well, not until I pick my neighbor choice, anyways)

Voided...none of the options you provide above explain why pappums would call you guilty when if you are town...he's lynched next. I applaud your efforts to turn things around and stay alive but your reasons for disputing pappums claim don't hold water...your claim seems off...and there is no non-suicidal reason for pappum to fakeclaim a result on you.

Because he thinks I'm scum and wants me gone. If you'll note, until he unvoted all his posts were about me being scum, and nothing else. I'm not counting RVS or anything before Idiotking confirmed to start the game, mind. After he unvotes me, he gets on Fitz and Jahudo for seeming overeagerness and the gambit suggestion, respectively. But other than that, it's been all me. Perhaps a case of tunneling?

I apologize for the fact my claim seems off. Wasn't my intention at all.

And what if there isn't and this really is some suicidal attempt?

In any case, I may be too cautious about my vote, but I'm not leaving without laying it down once.

Vote: Pappums Rat

Also, I remember someone mentioning that I also focused on Jinxx. I was thinking he might've been a buddy with Pappums, since both have voted me since or after RVS (though Pappums unvoted), and both have consistently said I was scummy in their posts.

[Voidedmafia]

Why do you not think it's right? From the looks of things, he's trying to defend you, in a way.

o here we go. this might be reason why he apparently checked voided.

Oh, jeez. Not only is he unhelpful, he's not even bothering to check where his info comes from.

please, please, PLEASE reread where that quote is in relation to Pappums claim, THEN you can start saying that. Otherwise, just don't.

also, i discovered an extremely scummy post that i missed before due to the cop claim.
NEIL
his post is so scummy that my teeth hurts. lynching him day2/3

The hell is this post, anyways? You do nothing to help by just saying "HEY GAIZ I FOUNDZ TEH SCUMPOSTZ LOOK LOOK LYNCHIE LYNCHIE!"

[Voidedmafia]

Actually, I never clicked that link.

Besides, if I was town, it wouldn't have mattered whether or not if was a gambit because you'd be dead. And I still just don't like that you did that in the first place.

However, I'm not sure if you've actually changed your stance on me at all...

[Voidedmafia]

not really, i still think it is pretty likely you are scum. in fact,

vote voidedmafia

Well, you've mentioned that my first post in reaction to your claim was rather scummy (and I'd have to admit I was rather taken aback by the claim, so it wasn't as good a response as I could've presented). And like I said, I never even clicked the link, so that takes out that possibility for my role mix-up.

But now that your fakeclaim is gone, what else leads you to believe I'm scum?

[Voidedmafia]

You had my hopes up pappums. But at least it did get this game sorta moving so your initiative was good.

Part of my suspicion on voided is whether he lied about his claim or if he just misread it. Yes, he could have misread a neighborizer claim as scum, but if he had that power role as scum I also think he'd be more careful about getting it right because its not something he'd have to make up on the spot. As town he might be more likely to think he's going to be lynched anyway so he answer like its an offhand comment.

So I think we should test voided's claim to clear up one suspicion I have.

How would you test it? Even if I decide to pick you as my neighbor you could just come out and say "See! The mod picked me as his neighbor! Voided never picked me at all!" And I'd be the only one to be able to argue that unless Rhinox has a problem with that, and I don't think he will.

Jerbs: Oh, there you are.

[Voidedmafia]

Neighbors are determined pre-game, it would be part of your role pm.

Not my point. Unless both I and the person I'm neighbored with get notified that we are neighbors, this point of yours is nulled.

MY point is that nothing is stopping you or anyone else from just out and claiming that I neighbored with you, unless you can prove what I just said above this.

[Voidedmafia]

@Andrew: WHY are you posting to little and have such a lazy meta? Are you willing to pick your game up for this game and be pro-town, or do you really not care? If the latter, I won't have any problem with a policy lynch later on in the day.

to the previous page, i meant this post was suspicious, not his next one.
if you look at this, it basically shows that he is making abackup andrew wagon.

infact he is gonna be day 2 lynch

Dude, make some goddamn SENSE before you open your mouth.

[Voidedmafia]

Quite frankly, I'm ticked off (or pissed, if you don't mind that) that andrew has so far made nearly no sense whatsoever in his posts. The only two that made any amount sense recently are the post asking me to claim, and the post that says that neighborizers aren't always town-aligned.

If he'd try to make sense with this case against you, then I wouldn't be so up about it.

[Voidedmafia]

...*facepalm*

Quite honestly, the way you're playing, I'd follow Neil's wagon whole-heartedly if I wasn't focused on pappums. Because your play so far has been horrible.

And Neil D2 lynch? Really? REALLY?

[Voidedmafia]

i would like to clear it up for everyone that this was a gambit, as i have stated already, since cecily thinks it was a joke. a gambit is meant to do something specific, such as in this case gauge peoples' responses to there being a confirmed guilty. i didnt do this for shits and giggles. i did it

in an attempt at scumhunting

, not to divert scumhunting, as havingfitz accused me of.

How is it not diverting scumhunt when, by your claim, everyone was focused on me, my actions, and what would happen on my lynch, and nearly nothing else? And you can't just write it off as just being narrow-sighted for everyone, either.

and i never forced vm to claim, he only claimed after andrew asked him to. he should have only claimed if someone had expressed intent to hammer.

You could argue that andrew asking to claim is implicating he would hammer.

i am very disappointed that people have abandoned talking about vm's responses. vm's responses are still just as valid as if i hadnt gambited, and they need to be examined, as well as everyone else's responses.

They're examining others, let them be. If they want to probe my replies, they'll get to them.

and note the namecallling 'liar' once again.

Well, you are.

[Voidedmafia]

yknow, as much as I agree that Rat set us back in the scumhunting department, you don't have to do that with the "lies". -_-

And I don't quite get the 5th paragraph.

[Voidedmafia]

@fitz

I WAS V/LA

andrew and pappaums are VIs

and you enjoy intercourse with aardvarks. start contributing please, or replace out.

p.s. while i was typing that up i thought that it may be the case that jerbs was trying to send a message with that post i quoted, as in, 'stfu about them, you are looking bad'.

If you had bothered to LOOK, you'd know he'd be V/LA up till today. So don't hate on him because he had a reason to not be there.

[Voidedmafia]

i cant really do anything due to the fact that people are not responding to me apart from calling me 'vi' and 'speak english pls'

'cause, yknow, this game is more than just responding to what people tell you.

Oh, wait, it ISN'T?! Oh, jeez, what a surprise.

start scumhunting, boy. You can start by better pounding out your case on neil. One post does not necessarily make one sum.

[Voidedmafia]

Now, it's true I'm not doing it right now, but I HAVE done so over the course of this game.

YOU, on the other hand, have done pretty much nothing content-wise other than that Neil case (which I still don't quite understand, but this could just be me posting at 3:10 AM Central), and even that's rather weak.

[Voidedmafia]

imagine if i said this: alright X is scummy (no vote) and andrew should be policy lynched later on if there is no body else.

thats what neil did, thats fence sitting, thats scummy

That ain't fencesitting. That's a promise as to where his vote is going next if his current wagon falls through. Fencesitting would be like teetering between you and Fitz for the vote.

these last several posts by neil feel like distancing to me.

and now that i think on it more, his vote on me doesnt really make much sense. he is voting me because of the possibility that vm could have been mislynched while my gambit was still in play, but that possibility would have been there whether i was town or scum.

also, the 'aardvark' comment was out of line. sorry about that.

I don't know about distancing, but there is some backtracking in them.

By "That possibility" you mean my mislynch, right? If so, the possibility is always there, but if your gambit hadn't been started, it wouldn't have increased so high in probability.

[Voidedmafia]

I'm here and reading.

Fine, then. Since you're so sure I'm scum, start elaborating on that.

P. edit: Or not...

I also don't like the fact that neil and fitz are trolling the hell out of each other.

I haven't ever been accused of "trolling" before and I have never used the term. Can I get a definition. And nice to see you post a few times. You're almost out of lurker territory. Way ahead of Jerbs at least.

Basic definition of trolling: Intentionally baiting someone with remarks so as to obtain a certain desired reaction, usually along the lines of rage from the person this is instigated against.

So, to make it applicable, Neil could be using names like this to get you riled up and respond in kind, potentially with much harsher words, and also potentially make you screw up in regards to posting.

Jerbs: ...so...you start the post talking about mikemike, give statements that say nothing, and then 180 onto another person (Pappums) as to their scumminess without any particular rhyme to it. What gives?

[Voidedmafia]

For future reference, mike, if you didn't know, you can have more than one post quoted. There's a quote button for posts in the 10 most recent posts below where you type yours.

[Voidedmafia]

@ pappums, you retracted it because you had to.
if we lynched voided and he flipped town, there are no excuses for your 'fail'.
thus, you would have been lynched the next day.

not wishing for a 1 1 tradeoff, you decided to cancel the gambit.
its that simple.

Actually makes sense, even if it's a reiterated way of saying what a few of us have said before.

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: Rat, you just can't simply brush off this possibility. Maybe you panicked (or however you say that) near the time you actually revealed the gambit, or maybe what andrew said was just realized by you, but they both are certainly ideas of what happened.

[Voidedmafia]

Remind me where I made a personal attack on you pappum...

every time you have said i lied or called me a liar. i made it clear that this was a gambit, and i took every opportunity i could to ensure that vm would not get lynched, right from the very first post of the gambit.

It's still lying, which I believe is his point. <_<

your gambit didn't accomplish much tho

wow! zomg! that makes me scum, doesnt it?! (obviously i disagree that the gambit didnt accomplish much, as we have a lot of reactions to analyze)

@ pappums, you retracted it because you had to.
if we lynched voided and he flipped town, there are no excuses for your 'fail'.
thus, you would have been lynched the next day.

not wishing for a 1 1 tradeoff, you decided to cancel the gambit.
its that simple.

i made it explicitly clear that i did not want him lynched, and even unvoted him when he was at l-1 to ensure someone would not hammer him. the whole point of this was to gauge people's reactions to having 'confirmed scum' and what sort of action they would take because of it.

You're still disregarding the fact that, no matter the precautions, I STILL could've been lynched by someone who was overeager. Jerbs could've, or anyone else who hadn't voted yet.

all right then, i am done talking about the gambit, if anyone tries to flamebait me again into explaining it (which i have done in detail) i am just going to ignore them. the results of the gambit speak for themselves, and i am voting accordingly.

nice distancing, brah. Sorry for you, but we're still gonna talk about the gambit, whether or not you want us to.

Besides, I'm still satisfied leaving my vote on Pappums.

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: oops.

Ignore the part that's him replying to Jerbs. I just forgot to take that out.

[Voidedmafia]

all right folks, here's the dealy-o. to believe that i am scum, you would have to believe that scum would be willing to pull a suicidal move like that

and

at the same time repeatedly tell people not to mislynch

and

tell everyone your pm said you were sane (giving you no option to claim that your sanity was not assured after the supposed vm townflip). to believe havingfitz is scum, you would need to believe scum would want to policy lynch someone who he claims is a vi, thereby bringing about a shorter day without any real scumhunting (which is good for scum)

and

endorse quicklynching vm after a suspicious early day one claim without scumhunting (once again, good for scum)

and

endorse lynching someone for using a gambit under the pretense of lynch all liars without scumhunting (are we seeing a trend, here?).

the whole point of my gambit was to see the reactions people would have to there being a confirmed scum cornered, and then after the gambit was lifted people could scumhunt by looking for suspicious reactions. havingfitz has made every attempt to make this day shorter than it should be, which is antitown and scummy. the fact is that havingfitz has done no real scumhunting at all, and has been avoiding doing so all day. obvscum is obvious. moar votes plz.

I think I could safely say that this entire post--or at least the first paragraph--is one big can of WIFOM. There's just SO MANY WAYS you can interpret nearly everything in that first paragraph as well as the paragraph as a whole, and plenty to go back on if needed.

As for the 2nd paragraph, it was still a lie. Granted, fitz at the very least suggested a pl of andrew and advocated quicklynching me, but I do agree that his comments towards andrew are justified in some cases. Of course, if I WAS scum and Rat's claim WAS true, I can see why he'd want to get me lynched as quickly as possible. He might need a good re-read if he's not lynched or NK'd today, but I'm still keeping my vote where it is.

[Voidedmafia]

I'm at school right now, so I can provide an ISO once I get home and get my chores done.

[Voidedmafia]

Jahudo: Well, that ISO of mikemike just really didn't sound in any way useful, just something tacked together to appear townish. especially the sudden reverse from mike to talking about Pappum's liegambit. The reversal itself isn't bad, mind, but what I found weird is that the majority of the post was about mike, and then here we go! Sudden Pappums comment!

Everything else has either been stupidly obvious stuff (like that comment about how Rat's gambit didn't go so well from a lynching standpoint) or just bad.

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: Also, didn't replace Jerbs with Bub on the votecounts, Rhinox.

oops, changed the voters, but not the votees. thanks for pointing it out.

[Voidedmafia]

Hmm. It just occurred to me that if PR does flip scum, that more or less clears Voided completely. WAY too risky a move to play on a scummate, even in the name of bussing.

And what if he flips town instead of scum? Do you think that either way would clear me, or that a townflip would still leave doubt on me?

[Voidedmafia]

A Town flip would be irrelevant on you. It means he just made a moronic gambit, and likely chose you at random.

What if someone else chose me, like Jinxx (who had been riding a gut-scum read on me since the start)? Or if he had chosen someone else?

You may consider this fluff, but I'm really curious as to what you'd think about this.

[Voidedmafia]

Don't forget to change the votes this time, Mod!

Thanks for the reminder . Votecounts will be updated starting with the

next

votecount

[Voidedmafia]

P.T. Unvoted

WHO ASKED YOU!!

lol jk thanks for the catch.

[Voidedmafia]

Hm? WHo's bussing who?

[Voidedmafia]

And so, Pappums continues to further my belief that his lynch is a good idea.

As for Cecily:

point 1 (paragraph 3): If his ad-hom-ing was the only reason I voted for Neil, then I'd unvote him once he stopped, too. 'Course, that only assumes that the ad-homs are pretty much the ONLY thing I object to and vote him for, unless you want to go ahead and except barning. Not that much of anything, though, IMO.

point 2 (her reasons for voting): 1.) Likewise, though we both share a few similar reasons (the gambit, Rat's avoidance of said gambit, and his recent blow-up).
2.) Nice job pointing out the contradiction. I personally wouldn't detract anything from her because of it, however, but it's certainly one of those things where, if they continue to be done, they pile up into a giant ball before you know what happens.

So, I think that while that analysis of Cecily makes her look scummy, her actions through the rest of D1 and in D2 will determine if she's the next to be lynched.

[Voidedmafia]

...

Are you reading through this and commenting as you go?

[Voidedmafia]

...

eh-heh...eh-heh-heh.

If I wasn't so dead-set on Rat, I'd probably vote you for that.

Also, why wouldn't it be at this stage? Unless everyone was all kinds of active for reads, a lynch will provide the stimulus that rat was trying to get.

[Voidedmafia]

Well, I just kinda overlooked that cuz I thought it was a typo or something. Certainly not a scumtell.

[Voidedmafia]

I'm inclined to think that pappums' overreaction is just a result of being constantly trolled by fitz. It's not the overt kind with a lot of cussing, though. It's the gnawing, nagging kind, a lot of little jabs here and there that alone don't mean much but together get pretty insulting. He clearly has a low opinion of everyone who is in any way against him, and he doesn't mind voicing it. To me it looks like more of a "stop being an asshole" type thing that you get on all forums, not just mafia ones.

Well, if he didn't actually look at those posts (I didn't really look because I was doing something non-game-related at the time), then fitz hounding him for not answering is completely justified.

In that context, pappum's overreaction certainly looks scummy.

[Voidedmafia]

*heavily resists typing sarcastically, though it's what I'd usually do otherwise*

I really want to know how that's a scumtell, anyways.

[Voidedmafia]

P.T: Admittedly, I'm focusing solely on Pappums until his lynch. That's not to say I don't have any other suspects (Cecily, for one), but I'm just really sure that Rat is the lynch for today.

Though, I need to also reread, to look for a potential buddy/buddies if he does flip scum. If he flips town, though, that would probably clear Cecily and put Fitz in the spotlight, would it not?

[Voidedmafia]

P.T: Admittedly, I'm focusing solely on Pappums until his lynch. That's not to say I don't have any other suspects (Cecily, for one), but I'm just really sure that Rat is the lynch for today.

Though, I need to also reread, to look for a potential buddy/buddies if he does flip scum. If he flips town, though, that would probably clear Cecily and put Fitz in the spotlight, would it not?

Why would it clear Cecily ? Because she said that the Rat gambit essentially cleared him in her eyes ? That's pretty naive to think well in that case if Rat is town then Cecily must be as well ??? Naive or a scum player looking to protect their own anyway.

Who has defended rat more that others? Cecily. Who would gain more credit if Rat scumflips? Cecily, and probably a few others who have defended rat.

Do I think that means she isn't scum? Of course not. Just because she defends a townie doesn't automatically make her town. Does it make her look more town for defending a townie? Absolutely.

[Voidedmafia]

Bub, that is EXACTLY what scum would want you to think. "Its so scummy, scum wouldn't do it!" As Pine said, he's gone over that earlier.

Andrew: Not like you haven't done any yourself <_<.

[Voidedmafia]

First of all...a little reminder:

Why is pappums the best choice for a lynch?
- The

only indisputable fact we have in this game

is that pappums lied and deceived town. (scummy)
- Repeatedly ignoring accusations and question towards him. (scummy)
- Misrepping/overexagerrating to pad a weak case. (scummy)
- Ad-hom attacks in lieu of rational debate. (scummy)
- AtE with "moar votes plz." Maybe if he had said "pretty plz" he would be moar convincing?

Add to these his lack of contribution the last week+ and his coming unglued for IMO no good reason.

Good enough for you, Rat, as reasons?

The 2nd one has been REALLY outstanding. Even with IRL things you can still put up some semblance of a reply instead of just going "blah blah already replied" when we can see that you actually have done nearly nothing of the sort.

[Voidedmafia]

@pappums again. Did someone say you thought you were cleared because of your lie? Also,

the only reason i am still in this one is because havingfitz is still alive.

So if I'm lynched you're going to replace out? That's nice...I assume you just want to stick around to make some assinine comment if I am today's lynch and then you'll bail (since I would no longer be in the game).

I seriously thought there was some Foe Yay going on here. -_-. Don't ask why.

HEY VOIDEDMAFIA DONT FUCKING ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT ARE NOT FOR YOU.

Long answer: no way.
short answer: no.

Don't want me to? Too bad, you'll have to make me, and you can't do that.

I strongly disagree with ANY lynches based solely on policy in a game this size. We don't have the people to spare. Even Andrew.

That said, if there IS a policy reason to add to someone's crimes against the Town, as with PR's case, that's fine.

what 'crimes against the town' are you speaking of? btw my former question still stands: what was scummy outside of the gambit?

Lack of answering questions, lack of BOTHERING to look for questions and/or answers, increasingly belligerent and terse tone with everyone. Those are the most prominent in my mind.

top scumreads: havingfitz, neil, voidedmafia.

Why me, again? Especially pre-gambit, but I want to know post-gambit, too.

It's not a FOS (what on earth is a HOS? Hall Of Shame?)

HoS=Hand of Suspicion. Basically a step up from FoS.

pappums...whatever your question is I have already answered it in my earlier posts and I believe at least one other owner has mentioned/quoted it. You might actually have to look.

But...Rat doesn't like to look!

[Voidedmafia]

Yet, we firmly believe that Rat (or Fitz, depending on the wagon) are scum. Even if we have other suspicions, why would it be stupidity to push for a wagon we believe in?

[Voidedmafia]

Who was? I certainly wasn't.

[Voidedmafia]

oh, right.

[Voidedmafia]

Please note who is hurling insults and getting personal about things, while most of us (I say most, because Fitz has thrown insults at you) have replied to you with varying levels of patience and/or tolerance.

First off, do tell why my reaction to the gambit would be flailing scum and not me knee-jerking to such a sudden accusation? And if you would consider it scumflail if this was directed at anyone else, assuming all attitudes towards each other pre-gambit (and pre-replacements, obviously)?

2nd, you didn't reiterate why you thought I was scummy, with both pre- and post-gambit reasons. I can certainly look back (which neither you nor Fitz are keen on doing), but I wanted to hear them from you again.

3rd, well, I can just as easily say you're scum trying to look for a way out of a potential lynch, the way you're ignoring answering questions, your tone has gotten increasingly more accusatory and conceited, and you've thrown out at least one insult to somebody per post.

4th, THIS:

stupid fucking petulant child. if you are indeed town you will look back at this game with a great deal of shame once you actually know how to play mafia.

would be your "crimes against the town", among a few other insults (the one about fucking porcupines or some other spikey animal, if others may recall?).

Pine: Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP:

5th, what was so bad about answering a question that any of us could've done? Not to mention that the post where you asked for the reasons looked rather general as far as who was supposed to answer goes.

[Voidedmafia]

...Again note how calm I am in response to Rat's overreactions.

If you have Central time, it's rather later (though, that should apply anywhere in the US right now). Rest, relax, come back with a fresh mind. Hopefully one that won't insult me or anyone else in the spawn of 5 words.

And with proper responses to what I've asked, too.

Also, I agree with Pine's reasonings. You may argue that we haven't gotten as much as we can out of D1, but I feel that as far as a lynch is concerned, we may well not get as close to one as with PR.

[Voidedmafia]

*Obligatory reminder to Rhinox to change the names in the next--oh, you did that already*

Mike: No, we aren't, but given that they're the top two wagons you kinda expect more than just a few posts detailing what you think about them. I don't see P.T.'s actions as distancing, just focusing on another target that's different to us.

[Voidedmafia]

Rhinox, if Fitz gets another vote by the deadline, or if someone unvotes Nacho, would he or nacho get lynched? I forgot who had the first vote now.

Tars: I assume you have similar feelings about both Fitz's and Nacho's wagons that Barnum does?

Bub: let's GO and get a vote somewhere!

[Voidedmafia]

Oh, yeah, a couple questions, Nacho:

1. Do you agree with Rat's reasons for finding me scummy? For Fitz?
2. Do you think that rat's gambit was scummy at all?
3. Would you still consider me or Fitz scummy now?
4. If 3 is a no to both, who do you consider scummy?

Everyone else not voting Fitz/Nacho: Guys, there's three days left, and we'll no lynch if Fitz or Nacho aren't lynched. Unless you can whip up some amazing case to persuade the majority to someone else, WE NEED TO LYNCH ONE OF THEM TODAY IF AT ALL POSSIBLE!

This is especially for those of you not voting period. *glares at bub*

[Voidedmafia]

Well, that'd be more like #5 instead of a modified #4, but ok.

[Voidedmafia]

fitz, rhino is givin me a deadline extension to do my thing because it was his birthday and we are friends.
i do remember thinking cecily was odd, so I'll glance at her tomorrow.

but i am about 100% sure voided is scum, enough to fake a guilty so.

Not sure I understand that last statement.

Also, answer my questions, please.

[Voidedmafia]

I'm only at

page five

and I just LOL'd pretty hard at the pelican picture. That's pretty much pappum's playstyle; he's fast, brash, and just doesn't give a damn.

Well, he'd do better to give a damn if he wanted us to actually take his gambit as true. Lashing out as he did near the end did NOT help.

If he was pulling a gambit (which I doubt entirely) then it'll be his end, but

(unless he says later that it's a joke and I haven't gotten there yet)

Bolded sums it up.

either way Voided pretty much solidified my scumread on them via terri-bad reactions. I'm also pretty sure that scum would have hammered and been done with it if Voided was town. This part of his defense is especially horrific.

Aka: I can't knee-jerk and just type the first thing that comes to mind. Doing that is INSTA-SCUM!

Right, gotcha. SUUUUUURE.

However, I believe that in this kind of game there can also be naive or insane or paranoid cops, which would make his claim practically useless otherwise.

We pretty much established he's none of the above; fairly certain the wiki wouldn't lie, either, so there's that. Scum.

*rolls eyes*

Misreading of the wiki, not intentionally trying to lying. Thank you for the assumption, though.

No, seriously. The way the list of potential roles for the Mini Normal wiki pages was listed was way too confusing.

Also, calling someone out with an illness V/LA is just about the worst reason to give. Ever. For anything. Jesus it's almost as if we didn't need pappums to tell us you're scum, you're doing a better job all by yourself.

I believe, at that point, Jinxx was pretty much no longer under his V/LA days, or was just on the edge of it. If I had called him out on Saturday or Sunday, this would have quite a lot of merit, but nope.

Also, tell me how it's being scum again?

@niel: what if pappums replacement

isn't

just one-day? What if that was a bluff to portray himself as, therefore, "useless to Mafia" as you so eloquently put.

I'd

still lynch him <_<

I don't want this to turn into a wall too much, so I'll give further analysis soon.

But, as I'm sure you've seen, you've been told wrong.

So, now that you've gotten past the gambit, you still think I'm scum?

Though, I will admit the picture was pretty funny.

[Voidedmafia]

Neil's situation is different, though. He attacked fitz a great deal, the main pusher of the rat wagon (which he was on). Even though he says that he doesn't think fitz is scummy, he still attacks him. He does very little actual pushing on rat, and spends most of his time attacking fitz. That shows that he has little confidance in the rat wagon because he knows it's a mis-lynch.

Little confidence, or could he simply be hounding his other suspect while he waits for the lynch he's sure will be a good one to pull through?

Of course, it's not like we can't always vote one guy, then press another <_<. No, that's too scummy.

[Voidedmafia]

Neil's situation is different, though. He attacked fitz a great deal, the main pusher of the rat wagon (which he was on). Even though he says that he doesn't think fitz is scummy, he still attacks him. He does very little actual pushing on rat, and spends most of his time attacking fitz. That shows that he has little confidance in the rat wagon because he knows it's a mis-lynch.

Little confidence, or could he simply be hounding his other suspect while he waits for the lynch he's sure will be a good one to pull through?

Of course, it's not like we can't always vote one guy, then press another <_<. No, that's too scummy.

The fact is that the wagons on fitz and rat are totally opposite. They're incompatible as scum partners, and thus pressuring both at the same time is counter-productive from a town point of view.

but

that doesn't mean he can't do that

.

Why does Neil have to not pressure Fitz because they're not partners? Do you think that Neil cannot get anything else from Fitz at this point? I want reasons why it can't be done, not why it shouldn't.

[Voidedmafia]

@Neil: You said that you do not agree with Lynch All Liars, but you said you would lynch pappum rat, not because of his lie, but because of what the lie could have done. Isn't that the logic behind Lynch All Liars?

I would think it'd be because of the lie, not what comes of the lie.

EBWOP for ninja: Dismissing my case as WIFOM won't make it go away. How is it WIFOM? Explanation please.

How do you know he knows its a weak case? Rat's wagon could be the best wagon, and Neil's jumping on Fitz for various reasons, or the other way around. Big WIFOM.

Also, he can't give another reason to lynch Rat other than the gambit? Barnum can't try to lynch someone else other than Fitz or Rat today? Those should be easy to answer: Yes, they both can.

[Voidedmafia]

*ahem*

How did I have inside info again?

[Voidedmafia]

Rather quick with that reveal, aren't you? Maybe YOU'RE worried about your scumbuddy instead?

But then, that raises the question: Why go after me, then, since I haven't really tried to go after you?

...wait...YOU DON'T SAY WHAT YOUR PM TELLS YOU, YOU IDIOT.

Voidedmafia's initial response to the claim, and what makes him confirmed scum.

First off, voidedmafia's already stated that he is not a miller.

I did? Are you talking pre or post-claim?

So, if he was town, he should have realized that there was absolutely no way in hell that pappum's could be telling the truth, and thus should have resulted in him doing one of two things: 1) calling it out as a gambit, or 2) calling pappums confirmed scum.

I've only been here, what, 2-3 months? With only two games completed? You miss that?

In voided's response, he does neither of these things. He tries to weakly defect attention onto pappums with the "maybe you're trying to protect your scumbuddy" (which makes absolutely zero sense), and asks "why would you choose me, pappums?".

No one has STILL explained why that's not just knee-jerk <_<

But the nail in his grave is the golden nugget at the end, where Voided clearly believes pappum's claim and tells him that he isn't supposed to quote Role PMs.

Because I THOUGHT that saying you're a sane cop and not just a cop would be stating your role PM and therefore would be against the rules.

He's also afraid to vote pappums even though pappums should be confirmed scum to him. Even after pappums makes a "very suspicious" post, even after Voided is told paranoid/naive cops are impossible, even after all bits of doubt are systematically taken away, he still insists on abstaining from voting pappums. It's like he's afraid to get into a 1 v 1 with him because he knows pappums is going to flip town, and thus he's going to be lynched.

I've said this already: I'm not one to just lay a vote on like that. Besides, that still would've been OMGUS-y, voting him back, so I also wanted to get more than just an OMGUS to vote him.

Then, there's voided's neighbor claim. He is told that his power is impossible several times, and yet doesn't back down or "check his role PM". Then, when Jahudo points out there is another "Neighbor" role that has that power, then he finally comes up with Neighborizer.

Because I thought I read it correctly (multiple times. Yes, I did go back to look at my role PM a couple times, don't try to say otherwise). Once Jahudo pointed out the extra role, I super-double-checked the PM (specifically how my role was spelled), and realized I had neighborizer instead of just Neighbor.

Then, when he finally DOES vote pappums, he has the following reasoning:

Because he thinks I'm scum and wants me gone. If you'll note, until he unvoted all his posts were about me being scum, and nothing else. I'm not counting RVS or anything before Idiotking confirmed to start the game, mind. After he unvotes me, he gets on Fitz and Jahudo for seeming overeagerness and the gambit suggestion, respectively. But other than that, it's been all me. Perhaps a case of tunneling?

Which still assumes pappums as town. After all, scum don't think that anyone is scum because they know the scum already...

It does assume that? Where?

And then, after pappums admits it's a gambit, THEN voided pushes for his lynch. It's like once reassured that pappum's isn't a one-shot cop with a guilty on him, then he's all gungho for the lynch because he knows he's not dead once pappums flips town.

Well, because lying like that was certainly a good reason to lynch.

Nacho, you STILL haven't answered my 4 (now upped to 5) questions. Come on, now. Here, I'll repost 'em for ya:

1. Do you agree with Rat's reasons for finding me scummy? For finding Fitz scummy?
2. Do you think that rat's gambit was scummy at all?
3. Would you still consider me or Fitz scummy now?
4. If 3 is a no to both, who do you consider scummy?
5. Even if 4 is a yes to one to either, is there anyone else you consider scummy?

Well, I guess you don't have to answer #3, but you still need to answer the rest.

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: No one STILL has come out and said why that was a knee-jerk reaction. (quote 3)

And why is Cecily my buddy again?

[Voidedmafia]

I did? Are you talking pre or post-claim?

Irrelevant.

Why?

I've only been here, what, 2-3 months? With only two games completed? You miss that?

Nope. I've also read your two games, and you weren't a VI. You're smart enough to realize that if someone gets a guilty on you and you're town, it means they're lying.

Okay, so I said the wrong thing. SORRRRRy.

No one has STILL explained why that's not just knee-jerk <_<

It is scum knee-jerk, and that's the problem.

And a townie hasn't made a similar knee-jerk before?

Because I THOUGHT that saying you're a sane cop and not just a cop would be stating your role PM and therefore would be against the rules.

The point is that you believed it even though he claimed a guilty on you.

From my ISO 18:

In light of that, you all might want to lay down your top 3 suspects (I would say top 2, but I'm fairly sure that Rat's gonna fall next if I'm lynched, so that'd make him suspect #1) so far

I don't think that says i believed him, does it?

I've said this already: I'm not one to just lay a vote on like that. Besides, that still would've been OMGUS-y, voting him back, so I also wanted to get more than just an OMGUS to vote him.

So, you didn't vote what should've been confirmed scum because it would be OMGUS-y, and you didn't want to look scummy for voting him? And isn't claiming a guilty on someone you know 100% is town enough of a reason to vote for you?

Yes to the first question.

For the 2nd, perhaps it is, but I didn't think so at the time. *shrugs*

Because I thought I read it correctly (multiple times. Yes, I did go back to look at my role PM a couple times, don't try to say otherwise). Once Jahudo pointed out the extra role, I super-double-checked the PM (specifically how my role was spelled), and realized I had neighborizer instead of just Neighbor.

I could see you misreading Neighborizer as Neighbor once, sure. But multiple times? Hell no. It's not that hard to read what your role PM says.

Of course it isn't. But I wasn't looking specifically for how the name of the role was named, just at what the role did (which was what they were heckling me over, since Neighbors can't choose who they're with).

It does assume that? Where?

You quoted the explanation as well.

I'm asking where I assumed, either explicitly or implicity, that Pappums is town.

Well, because lying like that was certainly a good reason to lynch.

But him lying about getting a guilty on you wasn't?

I didn't think so at the time.

2. No. Why would I?
3. Yes, you're scummy, Fitz isn't.
4. You and Ceily are scummy, I don't care about anyone else.
5. Pine is lurky, but no one else really stands out.

2. A few people (Pine in particular) have repeatedly expressed that such a gambit is not the way to go at this stage, and that it is scummy. Do you agree or disagree with this?
4. Because you want my lynch done with?
5. Idiotking and Neil have both said that they find Fitz to be varying degrees of scummy. Since you believe the opposite, what do you think of their arguments that Fitz is scummy?

[Voidedmafia]

If there's renewed interest in a voided wagon I'm totally up for that. I particularly like his recent appeal to newbieness- that's a last resort if I've ever heard one. The neighbor-neighborizor bit, as I've said and said, would be enough to lynch him.
Besides, the deadline's been extended.

Unvote
Vote: voided

I've already explained the mix-up with the roles.

Well, it's not so much an appeal to newbieness, but rather me trying to tell Nacho that I don't yet have the calm head to consider doing such things that he outlined in his case on me. Appeal to inexperience would be a better term.

[Voidedmafia]

Do you agree with Nacho's points against me, Pine?

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: If yes, would you consider lynching me instead?

If no, why?

[Voidedmafia]

From the first reaction onward, Voidedscum has been over-defensive. There's a difference between town trying to disprove a gambit and scum freaking out; it doesn't look like the former to me, therefore, voidedscum is freaking out. See also:

Yes, because town can't freak out like this, too. *rolls eyes*

TOO BAD I'M GONNA YELL IN ALL CAPS WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT!

VM backtracks, theorizes, and deflects all in a way that doesn't seem town motivated to me. At all.

Theorizing? yes. After all, I was trying to figure out why he picked me.
Deflecting? I suppose.
Backtracking? No.

Backtracking, okay, maybe somebody misinterpreted some ambiguity; his first question and his "VERY suspicious" feelings are completely OMGUS and sound like someone trying to do anything to make pappum's the one in the hotseat.

Or just get myself out of the hotseat. I mentioned many times prior to Rat revealing the gambit that I was focused on not getting lynched. Perhaps my play didn't contribute to that, but that was my goal until I was safe from being lynched.

This would only make sense if you didn't actually bring attention to yourself repeatedly... but you did. (see also: previously linked posts)

Huh? You make no sense...

It looks to me like P. Ratty looked at a person who had some anti-town tendencies and took a calculated risk. Risk worked, one question. UMADBRO?

what?

AtE will not give you my pity, nor will it make me think you're any more town than I already think you aren't.

Oh, jee, I can't ask for where I am in the votecount anymore? Guess I'll just let others say what it is to not be scummy anymore!

No further attempts to try to reiterate your stance? No scumhunting? Nothing. Just -_-

No. I already explained this and mentioned this before.

and we're supposed to believe this fakeclaim? inb4 "ah guys, I was roleblocked."

Can you roleblock Neighborizor/Neighbor? If not, lovely point here.

Mike: What did you even mean by "woolly vote", anyways?

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: Pine, you didn't explain why you disagreed with Nacho's points. You said you don't take them, but not why.

[Voidedmafia]

I admit, I haven't focused on anyone else except Rat outside of replying to other things (or defending myslf as with Nacho and Chk), so I don't have any other case to give you. I was going to keep on Rat until his lynch, and then focus on looking at others because I'm sure that he's scum.

[Voidedmafia]

588 = "I haven't scumhunted, I've just tried my hardest to deflect deflect deflect."

585 isn't any better; you're not refuting points, you're getting emotional about people voting for you. Scumhunt.

588:

Also, the part I "make no sense" in is quite simple. The first post would only make sense if you weren't bringing a lot of attention to yourself; unfortunately, the two posts I linked afterward (and any I liked before that) were all very eye-catching. In other words, it doesn't make sense for you to say "rat picked a random person" when you very obviously did things that weren't pro-town and therefore aren't a random target.[/quote]

[Voidedmafia]

BLKEJRLAJERKLJ! STUPID TAB BUTTON!

588 = "I haven't scumhunted, I've just tried my hardest to deflect deflect deflect."

585 isn't any better; you're not refuting points, you're getting emotional about people voting for you. Scumhunt.

588: I just said I'm focused on Rat/Nacho right now because I believe he's scum.

585: I am refuting points (if sarcastically). And since you're oh so kindly asking me to, I'm gonna scumhunt just to please you. I'll start looking over people, sure, but my focus is on Rat from here until he's lynched or D1 ends.

Also, the part I "make no sense" in is quite simple. The first post would only make sense if you weren't bringing a lot of attention to yourself; unfortunately, the two posts I linked afterward (and any I liked before that) were all very eye-catching. In other words, it doesn't make sense for you to say "rat picked a random person" when you very obviously did things that weren't pro-town and therefore aren't a random target.

[/quote]
the over-defensive link I said was again, knee-jerk. I can see why you'd think it was over-defensive since it probably how I felt at the time.

2nd link, I don't know what else you want me to say.

3rd link makes no sense in that regard, since I was responding to RQS that Cecily gave like everyone else did.

4th link isn't anti-town just because I say that I'm rather blunt at times and that I don't care for RVS (I should add all the time to that, though). I'll give that saying I don't care for RVS certainly drew attention to me, though.

5th link, how the hell do you get AtE from that?

6th link, *rolls eyes* of course you'd cast suspicion on it. Scum could even use your doubt of my role to their advantage, roleblocking me and making you vote me because "Hah! He was lying all along about his role! Get him!"

[Voidedmafia]

I know. -_- But I still detest being told to scumhunt like that.

Andrew's slot certainly is scummy. Not as scummy as I believe Rat's is, but it's not very pretty either. Not sure what to make of Chk right now, though.

I do agree with the Cecily case, and I am going to ISO her tomorrow if I'm not lynched or NK'd. I also have notes (which are just basic observations) for all of you that I'll give either tomorrow when I go over you, or perhaps today if the lynch swings my way. But Cecily is one suspect.

You, Fitz, are quite abrasive (and possibly unintentionally insulting), but you're town.

IK: Lurky king, more like. More null at the moment. I'm not LALu (Lynch All Lurkers), but he ought to replace overnight if he can't stay with us.

Jahudo is leaning town based on his play, but he's still lurking. Well, maybe not lurking, but doing what I'm doing, to an extent.

Bub, well, he's town right now, at least.

Tars...has done essentially nothing. She's also scummy because of that.

Mikemike is probably one of the more townish people here, along with you, Fitz.

Neil does seem to see-saw between being town and scum from his posts, so I'll leave him at null.

Barnum: Also town, and I've seen nothing to go against that.

Rat/Nacho: Obvscum, nothing more.

Pine: Also pretty town to me.

So, in conclusion, my suspects are:

Andrew/Chk, Cecily, and Tars.

I can post my notes beforehand if you wish, though.

[Voidedmafia]

Voided,

Is there anyway to test your role claim?

If you're chosen, Rhinox will tell you via PM. Though I have claimed, I still feel like if I chose you, you should stay silent about it for now. I can't stop you, of course, but that's what I'd want.

[Voidedmafia]

Voided,

Is there anyway to test your role claim?

If you're chosen, Rhinox will tell you via PM. Though I have claimed, I still feel like if I chose you, you should stay silent about it for now. I can't stop you, of course, but that's what I'd want.

Sorry to be lazy here, but what exactly does your role imply for

THIS GAME

?

Whoever I pick and I can talk during the night like Mafia. It's the exact same as a Neighbor except I get to choose who I pick instead of it being chosen for me.

[Voidedmafia]

Exactly my thoughts, and saying that the neighborized player should stay quiet about it seems to be a way to avoid scrutiny if no-one comes forward to claim that tomorrow.

I would think it'd be best not to shout "Hey! I'm neighbors with this guy!" whether or not you or the actual person you're with have claimed as I have. That's what I think anyways.

Perhaps my claim was too early in the game, though.

But then, that raises the question: Why go after me, then, since I haven't really tried to go after you?

This seemed out of place in response to the gambit. If you are town, your first reaction to being claimed to be scum by someone claiming investigative powers should be that they must be scum

I did come to the assumption that Rat must be scum, but that was after the knee-jerk "WTF!" reaction to the gambit wore off, and by that time I didn't think it'd be a wise move to say as much at that point (though, if I did, I stand (die?) corrected)

I know. -_- But I still detest being told to scumhunt like that.

In what circumstances do you not mind being expected to scumhunt?

I don't mind being asked to scumhunt or give my suspicions, like Fitz did. It can make the person decide and WANT to do so as well, though their reasons may very

I DO mind being imperatively told to do so. There's a difference. Saying it like Chk does makes your suspicions seem forced and made just to appease the town. At least, that's what I think.

At this stage, I view Fitz as town, PT Barnum as town and mike & Jahudo as town.

And I'd agree with you on all of them, though not quite as much with Jahudo.

Nacho has been helpful and reminded me of what made the gambit seem so convincing up until the moment of the reveal - Voided's reaction.

It wasn't the best reaction, obviously, and I really only have that I reacted in the heat of the moment (I did post pretty much right after Rat's post, after all). I would agree it would've gone better for me in the long run to have calmed down first.

I still hold that the reaction wasn't scummy, though. Just not a good reaction.

Voided also at one point described himself as "anti-town more than scummy".

I did?

At this point it seems obvious to me that I should UNVOTE: Pine and VOTE: Voidedmafia as Voided's behaviour during the gambit was the most suspicious thing so far in the game, and I'm no longer suspicious enough of Nacho or Fitz to vote for them and this wagon stands a good chance of leading to a lynch.

Nothing else AFTER the gambit, or during?

Wow...I really think it's time for a lynch but I'm surprised at how quick

Voided's wagon just got to L-1

<------

.

Well, I would've given the same all caps warning tonight as I would've back on Saturday. I just wish the lynch wasn't on me.

I would be interested in Void's flip more than several others in the game but not as much as my top suspects. It would be good to get Void's "cases" on others before he is lynched...perhaps some last words. If anyone is worried about a no lynch happening I will place the hammer if it comes down to it.

I assure you, I will at the very least flip town-aligned, so the vote should go straight to Nacho next turn (unless he's NKed for some reason).

I'll go ahead and post my "note" on everyone (which are really just little paraphrased summaries of what each post is about from each of you), most likely in quotes.

And don't worry about hammering. Given that we need a lynch now and I fail to see how we could quickly turn a lynch any other way, I'll hammer myself.

[Voidedmafia]

Well, since Pine really wants to, I guess go ahead.

i'll still hammer myself if everyone currently on the wagon is unswayed, though. I hate that the lynch is on my instead of Rat today, but we need a lynch, and I will make it happen, even if it's on myself.

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: I hate that the lynch is on me instead of rat.

Actually, I would prefer that I go ahead and hammer myself, if that's all right. You'll still get last thoughts and my "notes" from me before i do so. I'm not so stupid as to do that.

[Voidedmafia]

Cmon, Pine, get a move on.

[Voidedmafia]

Okay, dammit if I'm not supposed to post pre-lynch, but if I'm resigned to being lynched, why the hell can't I resolve to self-hammer?

And better still, why deny us any potential links from my notes? I was waiting for you to post your case, since you said you had one, before I said goodbye, and now I don't really get to. So, thanks.

[Voidedmafia]

Pine, I will hate you forever for that hammer, you do know that, right?

Anyways, I personally was never sold on Fitzscum, so I was constantly wondering why Mike was still pushing him as scum. Bub was on the fence for me, see-sawing everywhere. Faraday's assertiveness made me think she was town, though, and I'm not sure about Satael, really. I guess he's in the same boat as Bub, but not as heavily see-sawing. Sorry, I just wasn't focusing on you that much.

Anyways, I got one last question, and one last statement:

S1.) I would've chose Fitz for my Neighbor because I thought he was really town.
Q1.) Do you all want to see the D1 notes I took and was going to present? I only kept them for D1, though, but I think I'll keep notes on the game till it's over from now on.

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: And I thought Mike was scummy because of the push on Fitz, but when he and Bub were going back and forth D3 that read got lost between you two.

[Voidedmafia]

Sorry, Faraday.

But the QT was hilarious.

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: Also, what do you think I could've done better?

Pine: No, I'm not joking. And that's not sarcastic.

[Voidedmafia]

I think the fact that you're instantly taking this to mean "Oh my God, he's so immature!" means the whole "grow up" part should be switched around, not to mention, not even mentioned.

Now, think. From a game standpoint, would I really be that mad? No? Of course not, for the exact same reasons you gave (though I'm more confused about the first).

Now, don't think about that. Think about the fact that you SAID you would give a case on why I'm town, and implied that you would let me get my final words in and the notes I had amassed up to that point, and then flip ALL of that around and hammer me all because I'm wanting to self-hammer to avoid a no-lynch? Am I pissed about THAT? Hell yes.

[Voidedmafia]

So, in essence, don't be so stupid as to think to know why I would be mad.

[Voidedmafia]

Repeating it doesn't make it more true. It also makes it lose it's effect, and makes you look stupider when you keep saying it and it has no more bearing.

Now then, are you done? Or are you going to keep calling me a child? Or go ahead, say it again, since you now like to say it to me.

[Voidedmafia]

If you want clarification, I'm not personally mad, you dolt.

[Voidedmafia]

Who's the one who told me to grow up when he had no idea what i was trying to say, and wasn't bothering to figure out what I meant? <_<

neil: NO! NEVER! I WORK ALONE AND STAND ALONE!!!1!1! *retreats into a cold shell of only myself*

j/k.

[Voidedmafia]

I <3 quickhammering town as scum.

Then I will be very angry with you (if you're not scum with me).

Then laugh when Pine tells me to grow up when he assumes I'm being immature when I haven't.

[Voidedmafia]

Fitz: HOW DARE!

Vote: Having fitz

[Voidedmafia]

Fitz, did you want to see my notes from D1?

[Voidedmafia]

As you wish.

(X/x) First number (big x) is the post in regards to the entire game, starting with the first post after IK confirmed. Second number (small x) is the number in ISO, though I didn't actually get around to filling that out after I did that the first time.

This is rather incomplete near the end, as I was going to completely update this day's events up to the final VC if I wasn't lynched. Sorry about that.

Andrew94/chkflip:
(31/2)-RVS Havingfitz
(61/3)-votes Xalxe for an off reaction
(91/5)-Dislikes Mikemike's reaction to a policy lynch
(165)-Randomly mentions that neighborizer isn't always town-aligned.
(169)-Wants to know where someone replied to him. Okay...
(170)-Bullshit post with a completely inaccurate chronology of a post and abosolutely no information as to why he thinks Neil is scummy.
(192)-Even with said bullshhit, he turns around and votes Pappums instead. -_-
(193)-Seemingly thinks that Neil's gonna be lynched D2, which is far, FAR from the truth.
(225)-Complains about being unable to do things (liar)
(228)-Says Neil fencesits because he calls someone scumming w/o vote and then advocates for another lynch...that's fencesitting?
(252)-replies to Jahudo.
(253)-EBWOP
(280)-Says the only way to know if rat is lying is to lynch him.
(303)-Wants a lynch.
(378)-Suspicious of Pine's unvote/revote.
(417)-Tells Pine that his un/re wouldn't be in the right place in VC analysis...which makes no sense.
(434)-Tells Barnum he's a fool voting for Andrew since Fitz/Pappums are the lynches of the day.
(448)-Again derides Barnum for not voting Fitz or Pappums
Acts defensive against Fitz. And distances herself from word-flinging (which is really just one-sided.)
(---)-Replaced by chkflip
---------------------------------
(536)-Apparantly dislikes my reaction to the gambit.
(581)-Replies to me.
(590)-Tries to say I'm not scumhunting (though I explained why I wasn't, though maybe not at that point. Not like I'm the only one not hunting. <_<
Explains why that one link was attention-grabbing, though it really wasn't

Cecily:
(48/4)-RVS Mikemike
(53/5)-RQS as well
Dislikes walls, quotes necessaries, prefers what you do over what you say, isn't good at expressing opinions.
(76/6)-good reason to ask for timeframes. Wouldn't want that to happen at all.
I'm not tense, dummy.
good call, Cecily, on Pappums
(81/7)-Doesn't like pushes because they lead to early lynches, she says.
(88/8)-Got a little defensive about what others thought of her opinion on Pappums
(110/9 and 115/10)-Votes me like there's no other choice.
(160)-Is impressed with my defense, apparantly.
Thinks I just rifled through roles (which I didn't)
Thinks it's better to know who exactly is lying that just randomly guessing.
(163)-Says no one's jumped out because they're all focused on me.
(166)-Doesn't think my suspect question is necessary because of the early claim.
Thinks she's not alone in criticizing Pappums claim (and she's not).
(181)-Thinks Pappums got the game rolling (which I'd grudgingly agree with). But is still suspicious of my claim.
Thinks Pappums is cleared (no he's not). However, when trying to explain, she realizes that Pap's actions may still be scummy.
(234)-Backs off of Pappums because of how she feels about the gambit.
THinks Neil is scummy for the name-calling.
(240)-Wonders why it's so bad to agree with people, and says Neil's out of the spotlight by calling names.
(250)-calls andrew obnoxious
(279)-post later due to new schedule
(298)-Votes Fitz for what others have said.
(329)-Explains why she's voting Fitz.
(375)-Says she was for lynching me because of Rat's claim, now thinks that nothing but night will come out of quicklynching.
THEN tells Fitz not to misquote her.
(387)-replies to Fitz.
(482)-Originally voted Fitz for his overemotional reaction to Rat's gambit, and agreed with rat's "Fuck You" post because Fitz's walls were just being annoying (annoying to read, yes, but not annoying any other way).
If she goes with voting based off reactions, then rat is the best one to vote for, by far.
Finally notes that she only defended Rat for the gambit, then votes Rat.
(493)-Finds Barnum not focusing on the two main wagons silly and distancing, considering he didn't really get involved in them.
Tells Jahudo that scum in her experience are either forceful and out in the open or stay hidden.
(498)-Notes that emotional may not have been the best term for Fitz, but rather overly sensitive.
She didn't push his lynch, now she is. Problem, Fitz?
Thinks there's usually nothing to go with d1 (WRONG!), and says that Ftiz autojumping her for not fitting in is stupid.
(567)-She made that one line in her voteswitch post because of people misunderstanding due to preconcieved notions.
Split between Nacho/Rat and Fitz.
Dislikes Fitz's neil targeting, adding that it seems that Fitz attacks those who attack him like an "I'm right, anyone else who disagrees is enemy," kind of mind.
Also agrees with Nacho's points on me.

Havingfitz:
(32/1)-Possible OMGUS vote Andrew. Also catches possible slip by him saying "we"
(67)-Apparantly thinks telling timezones is bad, for whatever reason
tunnels
(85)-Defends Cecily's timeframe question, but also asks how she would mitigate a quicklynch from said question.
Also doesn't like Andrew and would policy lynch him if he could, though he wouldn't do so right now, apparantly.
(101)-Quite eager to get me lynched after Rat's reveal.
(103)-His rationale is that by not lynching me we'll allow scum to get better NK targets, which may or may not be true. But I do agree we need to prove Pappum's claim (which I bet is false)
(140)-Questions pappum's claim and ego for the claim and thinking Fitz is my buddy, but still wants my lynch over with (NO!)
(148)-Though he disproves that cops are always Sane, he still believes Pappums.
(150)-Says having andrew PL-ed wasn't to avoid discussion.
Also wonders why I'm not lynched yet.
(156)-Hasn't implied that they aren't stupid enough to let me be that easily.
(157)-Questions why we shouldn't belive Pappums, says that a one-shot inaccurate role isn't practical, and is suspicious of my role mix-up.
(161)-Thinks my reasons don't hold water.
(187)-Calls major bullshit on Pappums due to wasted time, then votes him.
Still doesn't quite believe my claim.
(201)-Wonders where Neil said he was scummy.
Says Pappums benefits becasue it makes people think he's too scummy for scum, and therefore town. Also points out that Rat diverted scumhunting (very true)
Tells andrew the role and shot were lies.
Thinks we're basically back to square one.
(205)-Says Neil has only posted one thing against him.
Sees his reasoning for Rat voting is to be on liarwagon w/o PL, then continues to question him about why he didn't vote me and his reaction to the claim and such.
Ratscum lynch clears us both, town lynch=Neil vote
(206)-Notes that the only substantial IK post is where he sees Rat's claim as fake, which means he has inside knowledge or is intuitive.
(216)-Says he wasn't jumping.
Went to Rat becasue 1.)His vote on me wasn't valid, 2.)His vote was on Rat in the first place, and 3.)Rat lied and wasted our time.
Didn't rolefish, and then accuses mike of rolefishing right after
(229)-Replies to Neil.
(233)-Replies to Neil.
(268)-replies to mikemike
(272)-Denounces pappums for saying Fitz was ad-homieming (cuz he wasn't)
Also makes a case on rat
(286)-Replies to Jahudo.
(288)-reply to IK and Jinxx
(290)-reply to rat (289).
(307)-replies to IK, Jahudo, and Cecily.
(310)-Reiterates the points against himself, and says why IK is scummy: That his accusations are horrid.
(321)-Calls out Neil on his reasons for wanting Jerbs/Bub lynched.
(356)-Replies to Neil, rat, and Cecily.
(365)-Says that one post about town being calm was sarcastic, and hopes people realize that no reactions are garaunteed either way.
(369)-Says that Neil's post above this (368) was to something that wasn't directed at Neil. And asks for comments on Cecily's case and Rat's overreaction.
(385)-reiterates why Rat should be lynched. And replies to Cecily.
Notes how IK "blindly" defends Pappums.
(388)-replies to Cecily.
(395)-1.) Everyone plays differently.
2.)Says that he's eyed Neil, but he isn't a suspect like his top three. Also doesn't think all 3 scum are necessarily on his wagon.
(398)-Slightly suspcious way to thank someone for agreeing.
(407)-Calls out Rat for doing nothing, AGAIN.
Calls out TO for her suspicions on him and how she disregards rat's gambit.
Says Jahudo isn't making sense with him being unwilling to accept valid points against Cecily, etc., and FoS Pine though Pine has good reasons for his case.
Notes that a Rat townflip wouldn't put him in a good cornet, but hopes his points would stand on their own for Rat to have been lynched.
Notes how Rat is essentially still here because of Fitz. FOE YAY!
(410)-Says he didn't notice Jahudo's suspicions of Cecily, but that was because Jahudo just left them a week and a half ago.
(413)-Doesn't think his way is the way, and would've been on Cecily if Rat's gambit hadn't happened or if the onlly problem WAS the lie itself. But Rat's post-lie game hasn't helped rat.
(415)-Tells mike that rat's gambit isn't all why he's voting rat.
(435)-Reposts a snide comment to Pappums when the latter said that he's only here for fitz (remember, FOE YAY!)
(442)-Wouldn't support an Andrew pl since there's better candidates for a lynch
Another snide Rat comment that he should look for the answers.
(450)-Pressures Cecily to respond.
(475)-Tells Rat to use the ISO function.
Questions Pine's list and asks for Cecily thoughts. Also asks if he ever had a case against Fitz.
I suppose reiterates what he thinks of PR, but softens to vote Cecily instead.
(479)-Asks Pinewhy Cecily isn't #2 D1 when she's #1 D2. Notes that Pine's effort came after others, and looks forward to his case. Also finds it interesting about why Pine dismisses Neil as scum.
(494)-Notes that, with rat walking out and other nonvoters leaning towards the wagon (along with her nonpush), she suddenly votes for him, which Fitz finds scummy.
Questions Cecily's voting reasons, and asks if she'd vote for whoever got the most emotional.
(499)-Says that his play throughout the day was pretty similar.
Also asks how he was automatically jumping Cecily, and that he's only placed her as scum.
(516)-Calls IK out for posting...nothing.
(551)-Notes that his current uncertainty with Pappums bumps Neil up as a scumspect, but not enough to shift him off of Cecily
(553)-His suspicion on Neil hasn't changed, and that if Rat isn't his suspect, then Neil certainly comes up the list.
(561)-IK is scummy for a crap case on Fitz, continued defense and blind eye to Rat.
(587)-Wants to know my top suspects.
(593)-Again pushes for my suspects, in a much nicer way, too, than Chk.
(597)-Would prefer a Cecily lynch over anyone else.
(603)-Points out how my claim isn't worth considering. Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww...the NK victim. I like that little line.
(610-1)-Notes how quick I went to L-1, and would want my last thoughts.
Also notes how Fitz's biggest suspects aren't on the case.

IdiotKing:
(50)-RVS Xalxe for Jahudo distancing
(59)-Finds it odd Xal jumped once Jahudo joined
(77)-Says the distancing part was a joke, his main point was Xal's misunderstanding.
Jahudo was only related to the quick unvote.
(78)-He just wanted to observe Xal's unusual vote.
(147)-Does not like what Pappums did AT ALL. Does not believe my flip would clear pappums, and that this could be a gambit between two buddies.
Seriously questions why he used it so early.
(236)-Doesn't like gambits, and would approve of Lynch all Liars. However, thinks this gambit was worthwhile.
Thinks Fitz is playing more by his emotions.
Really going for an Andrew lynch
(237)-Also dislikes the Neil/Fitz trolling.
(281-2)-Vote Fitz for shifting loyalties
(283)-Notes how sudden and absolute Fitz went from believe Pappums to be loyal town to lying scum.
(293)-Replies to Fitz.
(308)-says fitz needs to start arguing with some semblance of not deriding others.
(309)-Then asks him why he thinks IK is scum.
(380)-Feels that rat's overreaction was from trolling by Fitz.
(389)-stupid question.
(392)-says that his (Fitz's) three suspicions are people who attacked him, and doesn't think it's a coincidence.
(393)-1.) Fitz doesn't understand deliberation.
2.)Fitz thinks all three scum are on his wagon.
3.) ad-hom.
(511)-Apparantly didn't replace only because of the influx of replacements.
Thinks Rat went Ad-hom-crazy because fitz was pissing him off (so how does that explain why he got on me so much?)
Hasn't gone over anyone because of little time.

Jahudo:
(34)-RVS Xalxe
(43)-Votes Idiotking just to wagon.
(70)-he also mad I'm not RVSing. Also says Jinxx is no better (which is true)
Questions idiotking's quasi-joke reply post. He notes that IK didn't retract the distancing theory, and questions why this is more on Jahudo than Xalxe.
Thinks scum could exploit a question about timeframes, though I personally see no really potential there.
Thinks Xalxe's unvote was instinct
(105)-Thinks this is either a gambit or a real claim. But really?
(141)-Doesn't see why he should stay silent about the gambit, so no quicklynches happen.
Also thinks I'm trying to reason with Xalxe and Mikemike, though I don't think you could call it that.
Also says there's some tell from post 113, but won't say if its scum or town.
(153)-Only agrees with Neil in the sense that people need reads.
Thinks I'm defending poorly: Hasn't voted for Pappums, ignored others (not like I can't, since they're all doing the same thing), and is iffy about my claim.
(182)-Is mainly still suspicious about whether I lied about my role (well, I technically did). Also thinks my correction (I think) is like an offhand comment.
(210)-VMtown: Scum would've wanted an early lynch to avoid D1 extension or Rat lynch D2. Best case is D3 with 2 mislynches and little/no hunting.
VMscum: Buddy would've been on wagon.
suspects Jinxx, P.T., fitz, Cecily, and Xal, and thinks it'd make sense to lynch one of them.
(241)-Tells P.T. that scum would've jumped on the wagon for an easy quicklynch.
Also goes over those who voted for me, singling out Cecily and Fitz as scummy. Then votes Fitz.
(273)-Gives reasons not to blindly follow pappums to a hammer.
(294)-replies to Havingfitz.
(324)-Says that the name-calling wasn't scummy, and asks Cecily what she thinks of how Neil stopped.
(401)-FoSs Pine for his LaL, for using theory confidence to ignore giving reads, and asks why he thinks Fitz is a suspect.
(408)-Says that a D1 gambit would get the town thinking and connections to form.
(409)-asks why his suspicions for Cecily are invalid.
(486)-notes that Rat expected his gambit to be better recieved (he doesn't like it? Too bad)
Asks Cecily why a more forceful playstyle would by more scummy.
(488)-Questions Pine about the gambit.
(491)-Notes that Town DO do mindgames, and other town like it/don't mind.
Thinks that Rat and myself would be the two we wouldn't get clear reads on based on the gambit.
(556)-Agrees with Bub on Rat's actions
Restates what he thinks about what the gambit did: Got him several reads, but left Rat and I in the dark.
(609)-Votes me.

Jerbs/Bub Bidderskins:
(183)-Wants to keep me alive.
(242)-Basically posts...nothing.
(256)-more one-post nothings.
(295)-Says he was original suspicious of Mike, then wasn't.
(317)-replaces out.
-------------------------
(323)-Unvotes.
(372)-Apparantly just got to Rat's fakeclaim, along with a HoS.
(419)-At Page 9. Thinks Rat is town, despite how WIFOM-y him doing that gambit was. he thinks that it doesn't benefit scum (it does)
(540)-Disagrees with both current wagons.
Notes that Jahudo is fencesitting.
Suspects Pine and Neil.
Pine: Says he could go to Fitz after rat, for two mislynches, or go for Fitz, then jump back to rat and say "He was scummier all along"
Neil: Though he stays on the rat wagon, he still heavily attacks Fitz, apparantly indicating he's not confident about the rat lynch, and that it's a mislynch.
Votes Neil.
(543)-Says that pressuring both wagons is counter-productive.
(546)-tries to say, essentially, that Neil can't give other reasoning.
(548)-Thinks that lynching because of what did (or would've) come of the lie is LAL.
(549)-And wants explaination of why his case is WIFOM.
(554)-Asks Neil to answer his questions (though I answered one)
(555)-Notes that Cecily has been acting scummy, most notably her switchpost. He bolded the first sentence and asks why town would do that.
IK is town, though.
(558)-Cautious=scummy. <_<
(562)-Says that Fitz's only thing at the time was the gambit, and that IK has some points on you.
(576)-Notes Neil's aversion to the WIFOM question.
(606)-Votes me

Jinxx/Tarsonisocelot:
(40)-he mad that I'm not RVSing
(69)-Or posting
(117)-Trusts his gut for his vote, which is stupid
(243)-Not sure what to think of Pappums's gambit.
Thinks my arguments were genuinely town with the gambit over.
Against LAL or PLs.
Calls Jerbs terrible (and right so) and votes for him.
Also thinks Neil is town and Fitz is scum.
(276)-post later
(305)-Will replace if he can't reply by Wednesday.
---------------------------------
(355)-Opens with general reads, and unvote.
(357)-Says that Fitz's reaction to the gambit was too emotional.
(400)-Says that Rat just reacted to fitz, and that she would've done the same.
(411)-Replies to fitz, asks pappums, Pine, and Andrew questions.
(477)-Notes how Neil is getting less and less towny, somehow, and lists possible wagon results.
(481)-Works things as probability trees (wha?) and has a less nuanced view of tells. Will vote Friday based on those trees
(504)-Votes Pine, says Pine's suspicious...and leaves it.
(608)-Replies to Fitz, and votes me.

Mikemike778:
(36)-RVS Jahudo
(72)-Points out it's not exactly good scum to outright refuse RVS, and therefore get attention.
(86)-Doesn't think a quicklynch is possible, or would be a good idea for scum.
Not sure who else he's referring to on point 2, maybe me?
(107)-Not too keen on voting me. Also notes how Fitz hasn't been to much in terms of helping.
(112)-Questions if there's a doctor.
(133)-Goes with the fact Rat said not to lynch
(149)-Thinks there's no reason for me to not be the day's lynch.
Thinks there's a scumslip with Fitz going for Andrew's policy lynch.
(213)-Pappums is scum, I'm not scum, Fitz kinda scum, Andrew null.
Also thinks Fitz is jumpy.
(257-60)-A defense he could've had in one post.
Suggests andrew works on his sentences.
wonders what jerb's little "ISO" (and not even that) was for.
Asks fitz why he thinks Rat would be investigated=rolefishing.
Tells jerb that we do have some stuff to look over.
(261)-EBWOP. Says that his main issue with Fitz is the immediate overreactions.
(297)-Replies to some post, and Fitz.
(326)-Says that a new replacement can hurt the scumteam, hence why they go after replacements.
(397)-Says that he hasn't seen a lot of townies attacking replacements, yet has seen scum NK replacements.
Believes that we would've still been in RVS without Rat's gambit, and still thinks Rat's town, having seen nothing scummy (riiight...)
Finds himself agreeing with Fitz after his 385 to go after Cecily next.
(414)-Questions why I think it'd clear Cecily, though I think I mean someone else.
Says that Rat expressly asked for no quicklynch, and that Rat just looks like an easy scum lynch target
(422)-Has already explained why he's voting Fitz.
Again says that rat has done nothing scummy post-gambit.
He would only vote Rat because of the gambit, and thinks this is why Fitz is voting rat. WRONG!
(424)-Calls all that Fitz has done WIFOM, which is so far from the truth.
Admits that Rat isn't clear in his book, but says his wagon has too much enthusiasm for his taste
(441)-We should really only pl D1.
Still thinks Fitz, but would go to andrew if that would get going.
(485)-Agrees with Barnum about not worrying about voting.
Wonders why we're still going on about the gambit (well, why WOULDN'T we?)
Thinks that Pine saying that whoever thinks rat is scum is D2 buddy lynch is also quite scummy
Wants Tars to say who sh thinks is scum
(500)-Also points out that Barnum has noted Fitz/Rat, and asks Cecily why he has to be all on Fitz and Rat? Mike says that's tunneling.
Agrees with PT on pine points, and sees PT as neutral.
Scum: Cecily, Pine, and Fitz. former two are alternates for Fitz.
(582)-Not going with my wagon.
Reiterates P.T.'s two cases on pine and Neil
(589)-Wasn't sure how anyone could get a confident read on Andrew
Comparing P.T.'s reasonings for voting Andrew to voting me, he doesn't see how either one is better.

Neil1113:
(57/4)-RVS Xalxe (or maybe not)
Says something was a joke
(93)-Wants Andrew to step it up
(95)-Seriously questions Rat's claim
(98)-Apparantly didn't understand my reasoning to my first reply, though I did.
(100)-says he'd be useless to Mafia.
(102)-Doesn't want me lynched just yet (good call), and thinks we can still get some info.
(152)-Thinks we should just use the remainder of the day to pressure others, and if nothing comes up, jump back on me.
(188)-Doesn't like the lying, nor people clearing becasue of the move. Therefore, Pappums ain't clean yet
(195)-Thinks Xalxe's argument is that Rat's move was "too scummy to be scum" and uses meta to explain that that's a bad thing to say.
Quite clearly poses questions against andrew's bullshit arguments.
(203)-Says he just has reasons that fitz is scummy.
Doesn't want to lynch Rat becasue he lied, but because of what would've happened.
THinks Xal slipped, and wants to know how it's in any way town-motivated.
(223-4)-Essentially tears into Fitz's posts. No other comment becasue it'd take quite a lot of space.
(230)-Oddly semi-backs off, for lack of a better way to put it.
(238)-Replies to Fitz, Cecily, and Pappums.
(291)-replies to Rat (289).
(304)-Suspcious of the wagon due to the people on it.
(320)-Says he'll vote Rat, then Jerbs, Jerbs mainly because of the replacing.
(327)-Says Fitz said that to get people off his wagon.
(330)-Basically hates replacements.
(333)-Wants a case on Rat(?) that stands.
(368)-Says that Fitz and rat are the only two really viable lynches today.
(429)-Wants to OK an Andrew pl.
(439)-Notes Pappum's OMGUS reads.
(444-6)-Notes the obvious failure of Rat to refute Neil's accusation, again calls the reads OMGUS, and says that if the town went to Fitz (or Andrew), he'd vote, but he's not comfortable with it.
Then says that he doesn't think rat is town, which makes the fallacy Rat mentioned fail. And he also believes Rat is scum-aligned.
(467)-Requests self-hammer of PR, hammer, and enforcement of rule 4.
(480)-Questions if Tars just posted the most fluffy WIFOm post in the game, and says his 467 isn't a scumtell.
(502)-doesn't find Cecily scummy, but admits he might be biased. Notes the pine case, but it won't move him.
(547)-Calls Bub's case WIFOM.
(552)-Gets a little defensive with Fitz, claiming he's taken Bub's fluffed up case and used it as a point of attack, complete with a threat to vote.
(575)-Notes that Nacho's answer to my question #4 was a bit close-minded.
(598)-Asks P.T. for his Andrew case, CONVENIENTLY missing the post where Mikemike reposted it.
Also wants to know if my claim is reasonably verifiable
(601)-Double lazy? Wants to know what my role would do this game, then brazenly (for lack of a better word) says P.T. has no case on Andrew.

P.T. Barnum:
(55)-Enjoys brevity
(83/4)RVS Idiotking
(83)-Dislikes Xal's play
-Doesn't think IK's wagon built fast.
(106)-believes lynching me would confirm pappums either way, doesn't want speculation about my role for WIFOM
(121)-No hammering me!
(167)-Doesn't buy my claim, and thinks I flailed replying to Jahudo.
Suspects neil for posts 93 and 57.
Thinks Xalxe's suspicion of him is nonsense, and thinks his wagon is worth picking up.
(219)-Points out that it was an obvgambit, and that scum weren't dying to get on my wagon.
(270)-Doesn't see Neil as scummy, but now sees Xal as scummy. Votes.
And would still back my wagon -_-
(284)-Votes Jerbs since Xalxe's gonna be replaced.
(315)-Wants a wagon on Jerbs.
(344)-Is basically lost with Jerbs leaving.
(402)-Will go over who he thinks should be lynched tomorrow (D2).
Thinks the Fitz wagonn is nonsense.
Not sold on Pappums's wagon, and would rather lynch me.
Thinks Rat has a lot of leverage now, but doesn't like his tone when talking to Fitz.
(433)-Lays out why he thinks Pine and Andrew are scummy, and votes Andrew.
(436)-Believes Andrew to be scum.
(449)-Heatedly notes that he's had a few posts put towards thoughts on Pappums/Fitz.
(452)-Says we should vote who we want to vote unless we're under pressure, and won't be swayed.
(563)-Also wants explantion for Neil saying WIFOM to that one post.
(573)-Goes with my wagon.
(583)-Just because there's enough to lynch, doesn't mean its necessary nor that said player is the only one worth it.
Understands that Mike might not agree with his Andrew case, but would prefer he just reference it instead of asserting.
Thinks that Mike thinks that a bad scumtell means everyone should focus on lynching said person.
I had a wagon, that fell off, P.T. didn't think I'd have another one. Now, though, my wagon is better than any other.

Pappums Rat/Nachomamma:
(30)-RVS Idiotking
(59)-RVS me for not joining RVS
(71)-Questions if I've played as scum, implying I AM scum
(94)-Pulls this daycop guilty on me outta nowhere. Apparantly is hell-bent on me being scum, though I'm not.
(135)-And just as suddenly unvotes.
(137)-Says quoting a Pm is bad (though so is paraphrasing), tries to act innocent about scumbuddy.
Claims he has irrefutable proof of my scumminess, which is wrong. And doesn't think this would take pressure off, either
Also doesn't know that Neighbors choose their person.
(139)-Thinks Fitz is my buddy for wanting the day to end early, when he's really just going on YOUR claim. *rolls eyes*
Also thinks Jahudo is warning scumbuddies. *rolls again*
(144)-Didn't want a lynch because of what we could learn, and reads for him.
didn't like the call for a policy lynch on andrew by Fitz.
Doesn't think Xalxe's option post was necessary because there was no point to lynching himself (which isn't true)
Also sees where Jahudo was coming from, and wants to know what others think of my defense.
(176)-It WAS fake, just like I thought. He used it to try and generate discussion, and is pissed that it fell out later.
Thinks my standing improved over the time he had fakeclaimed.
(179)-revotes me.
(207)-Did this to scumhunt, apparantly. And says he wasn't detracting from other hunts.
Suspicious of fitz throwing out the word liar everwhere. And says I wasn't forced to claim.
Very disappointed that no one's looking into my words.
Also points out that he's not cleared yet.
(221)-Unnecessary comment to Jerbs, and basically tells Fitz that he's wrong.
(231)-Says Neil is distancing, and that his vote is weird
(254)-Says he took measures against QL.
Questions andrew for why he's saying he retracted becasue there's no non-sane cop.
Agains says the goal was to get reactions.
(271)-says Fitz ad-hom'd by calling him a liar (what), and now won't say anymore about his gambit.
(289)-Cooks up an unholy amount of WIFOM in one paragraph. Concludes by saying Fitz is anti-town for trying to end D1 early.
(331)-Says the "kill replacements" is null. Still thinks Fitz is scum.
(358)-basically shrugs off anything against him by Fitz because of walls or because he supposedly answered already.
(361)-Lashes out! (!!!!)
(399)-Continues to deride Fitz, saying his walls are just being rehashed and he's OMGUSing his suspects.
(405)-Apparantly thinks I'm not talking about Rat, when I am.
Was trying to make people question if scum would take his actions.
Also hasn't been active due to IRL stuff.
(426)-Isn't going to ass himself to look for questions towards him.
Stupidly asks Fitz what else he's voting rat for.
says that he never had a null/town tell on me.
(427)-Already explained the context for LaLiars, and that gambiting is null. Also notes that his case seems to be based solely on the gambit and his outburst.
(437)-Flips out (AGAIN) when I show why he should be lynched (even if it's Fitz's summary).
Again asks what's scummy outside the gambit.
says that people were alluding that he (Rat) thought he was cleared after Cecily said that, and won't leave if Fitz is lynched today.
OMGUS scumreads.
(440)-Says they're not OMGUS (though they are).
Calls Neil's blasting of Fitz and voting Rat is the "HoS buddy, vote town" fallacy....er, scumslip?
(456)-Notes Fitz doing the same thing he is.
Asks Neil about his "horrible defense", claims that Neil is acting like me right after the claim (<_<), and more ad-hom-ing me.
(461)-Rant, rant, rant, ad-hom, CAPS rant...
(464)-Pretty much throws it. Wah, wah.
(468)-hilarious batman comparison.
(484)-Replace out with Nachomamma
------------------------------------------------
(564)-Lays out his case against me.
(565)-Also says Cecily's my buddy. Wha?
(568)-Garauntees he and Fitz are town
(572)-Reply to me

Xalxe/pine:
(33)-RVS Idiotking
(56)-Comment-and-leave style
(60)-Failed at math
(68)-Andrew's question/answer to a pre-start thing from Xal was what Xal was doing. Idk, I'm not focusing on that.
-Didn't want an RVL (Random vote Lynch)
(104)-Very surpised at the claim.
(111)-After viewing the claim, he gave a couple options for us to go for.
(123)-Feels I might be too strung-up due to being pushed to l-1.
(126)-Top suspects: Me, rat, and Barnum for some defense (slight buddying?)
(143)-Questions Pappums unvote.
(145)-Thinks my defense was better than he thought.
Says the lynch is if you're liarscum.
(177)-After Pappums outs himself, Xal still thinks he's town (what?), but still feels iffy about me.
(191)-Wants Neil to argue about Pappums dropping the gambit now instead of later.
---------------------------------------
(314)-Instantly unvotes.
(316)-Votes pappums, the primary reasons mentioned is that Rat's actions shouldn't be discarded because of how scummy they are.
(325)-Says that Jerbs was right in replacing out.
(328)-Agrees with Fitz, and says a replacement for Jerbs would move the game along.
(332)-Says that Neil's disdain is stupid, and says Neil is VI.
(338)-Notes that a Rat scumflip clears me.
(340-1;3)-Says a townflip is irrelevant, and that Rat has been rather good at trying to get out of this mess he made. Also says that who did this would be irrelevant, too.
(364)-Says that while town are usually calm, the opposite is just as true. Then oddly unvotes and revotes Pappums.
(366)-His comments were irrelevant of Fitz's sarcasm, and that Fitz is 2nd on his scumlist.
(372)-Asks if anyone thinks rat is actually town.
(381;3)-Sarcastic and semi-sarcastic reply to Andrew's supsioun. The un/re was for emphasis
(396)-Thinks Cecily is #1 for D2.
(403)-Will put together a reply for Jahudo later becasue he forgot to string it in his posts.
(406)-Says gambiting at D4 isn't necessarily scummy, but is at D1.
(412)-Says there's a far better way to get reactions D1 than a gambit that could lynch someone who is very likely to be town.
(418)-Calls Andrew out on his shoddy reasoning.
(430)-Strongly disagrees with Neil's proposal, but if there's a good reason to add policy to someone's case, then it's fine.
(462)-Really wants to push a rat lynch, and questions if ANYONE thinks he's town anymore, though saying that those who think he's town are scumbuddies is pushing it.
Also notes how Pappums's gambit was the singl scummiest thing in the thread.
(465)-Notes the lack of participation in the thread, which is true. (myself included, but that's just because I'm certain of the PR lynch and I'm not deviating from it).
Also wonders what PR's reasons for all the insults are.
(476)-Top scum are PR---------Fitz---Cecily
Notes he was the first to give logical reasoning for scum to do PR's gambit.
Promises a case on Fitz.
Says Neil is obvtown
Says scum can and will imitate town-tells, noting that PR's outbursts are just over-the-top.
(487)-Worried that a replacement would wriggle out of PR's lynch, and wants him hammered ASAP.
(489)-Says the "starting conversation" reason is bullshit, and that Town has no reason for doing it at all.
(513)-Cecily moved to be the #1 D2 because of Fitz's case on her, but that's slacked off. He still agrees, but it's not like "this is so right! Imma vote her tomorrow!"
(544)-Disagrees with Bub's 543, but agrees on the non-scumbuddies.
(577)-Worried that Nacho might get out of the certain Rat-scumslot.
(580)-Is taking all that Nacho says with a grain of salt at the moment.
(604)-Notes that a neighborizer is actually a very bad fakeclaim--if scumbuddies confirm, they're lynched when I am.
(613)-Promises a case as to why I'm town.
(don't remember the number)-Later finds the fact that I'm willing to lynch myself since I'm the remaining wagon left and we're 1 day away from DL scummy...how?

[Voidedmafia]

I'm pretty positive this is right up to Pine's Hammer and such, and I don't have anything beyond that. I tried to leave out obvious fluff (And obviously never took any notes until everyone had confirmed).

[Voidedmafia]

Chk was just null. I mean, his arguments were good, but I objected to his read because I knew I was town. Pretty much, if it was on anyone else this game, he would be town.

Cecily was leaning scum near the end, and that read solidified throughout the game. Sucks that she was town in the end.

Always held Fitz as town.

IK was null, but I didn't like his play at all.

Jahudo was null, though I didn't like 141 because of the 3rd line about it. I suppose I could argue he was getting town after awhile.

Jinxx/Bub and Jerbs/Tars: Both were leaning scummy, and I think I actually said Tars was scum.

Mikemike:...REALLY not sure. I'd be safe saying he was null, but trying to think what I was thinking a couple months ago now, I'm not entirely sure.

Neil: I felt he was town, honestly. Wasn't liking his play at the end, which made him more scummy/null, but he was still town at my lynch.

P.T.: WAHHHH WHY WEREN'T YOU TOWN?! I HAD YOU PEGGED AS TOWN WHEN I WAS LYNCHED! WHYYYYYYY??!

Rat: obviously I thought he was scum, and didn't think Nacho alleviated it.

Xalxe/you: Xal was town to me, you were null.