Open 290 - Double Day (Game Over)

[Meransiel]

Hiraki, stop being such a pain! I'm FoSing ye.

Vote: Number58

[Meransiel]

These past few posts got me confused as to what game I'm in.

Unvote, Vote: silverbullet999

FoS: Hiraki

Quit confusing me. =P

VOTE: ConfidAnon for subscribing to the oldest scumtell in the books.

Psst. Meran's post is just as bad, and/or worse.

Also, these FoS' are quite amusing.

Confid. Convince me why I shouldn't vote you right now.

Calling soembody an idiot doesn't make you scummy, but it does make you unpleasant.

[Meransiel]

I don't see anybody calling anybody an idiot.

I see Bvi is town. Silver's still an idiot.

[Meransiel]

OR we could just sit on our asses and wait for posts to accumulate. Cause days must last at least 8 pages of discussion.

[Meransiel]

That's a pretty good point. Plus, Number 58 is not here, so I guess we could always pressure him later.

Unvote

Vote: Furcolow

[Meransiel]

I was just pointing out the need to push people that don't post to post, and that said need can wait.

[Meransiel]

Ooh, the game going on painfully randomly at this point.

I think Pim is just trying to be funny (and failing), by the way.

[Meransiel]

Confusing already, no alt needed )

[Meransiel]

Mixing fun with paranoia, eh?

Well, they did do cocaine wine, so anything is possible...

[Meransiel]

Can we now get the good wagons going?

What do you mean by...good wagons?

[Meransiel]

his hmmmmmm also feels faked to me, because I feel as if IF he were town, he would actually vote without just unvoting. Simply unvoting feels like scum waiting to place a vote as opposed to actually fishing out suspicions which town should do.

That's a really weak point. A really ,

really

weak point.

[Meransiel]

his hmmmmmm also feels faked to me, because I feel as if IF he were town, he would actually vote without just unvoting. Simply unvoting feels like scum waiting to place a vote as opposed to actually fishing out suspicions which town should do.

That's a really weak point. A really ,

really

weak point.

not really
explain why you think so

Cause it is. A lot of people unvote and then sit on their votes, it is completely unrelated to their allignments. Also, this was the only point I had to debate because the others were good points, but it seemed a bit like you were trying to overmotivate and overexplain.

In short, I do believe the guy's kinda scummy, but I'm not getting town reads on you either.

[Meransiel]

Me, needing pressure? Well, who knows...

[Meransiel]

Just surprised is all. I mean, everybody needs pressure, if a wagon is already half-started, why abandon it and go for someone new?

Not a bad strategy, no, just unexpected.

Put any questions, point to anything I've said and done that looked scummy, and I'll gladly answer.

[Meransiel]

@fur: You apparently don't know what strawmanning is, as I see it. Allow me to give you a 101 definition. To strawman is to intentionally misrepresent somebody's actions in order to defeat them more easily. What I did whas to call you out for an argument that I found far-fetched, then comment on the general validity of your post, then pointing out you kind of tried too hard with those accusations, which means your arguments are somewhat suspicious, but in no way wrong (mostly). Comprendre?

@bvoigt: Ah come on, you just don't whant to admit it's gut. :d

[Meransiel]

@silver's justification: Seems clean and to the point. While I'm not really sure it stands, it does make silver look pretty pro-town to me.

Now, the Confid case is something else. Insisting on voting somebody due to a role restriction that says NOTHING about alignment, and that I would see more likely applied to a town than a mafia, is stupid to say the least. And very anti-town.

@TS: I have already explained why that was NOT strawmanning. If you're too lazy to look it up, here and here. You jump too easily on wagons. As such, I'm getting a slight scum read on you.

@Hiraki and singersigner: I actually have a problem reading this two chaps. They both have a...way of posting, that I don't know whether I should attribute to personality or alignment. Hiraki is being overprotective of himself, immediately questioning everyone that shows even the sightliest suspicion of him. Short fuse, scumminess, I have no idea. Singer, at the other pole, seems very clean and logical in absolutely everything that he says, I I honestly can't tell if that's just him being himself or him posting very carefully to cover up slips.

My reads so far:

Twistedspoon - neutral, leaning town
Hiraki - town, leaning scum (yeah, I know it sounds weird)
Signer - town, leaning...I have no idea
silver - town
fur - neutral, leaning scum (yes, my suspicion of you has reduced)
confid - scum, leaning neutral
Nobody Special - I have no idea
bvoigt - town, leaning neutral
Number58 - pretty much town
Nacho - town
Pim - no idea
boberz - is he even playing?

[Meransiel]

FOS Fur

Quote wars generally arent helpful

. seems very defensive of himself. seems very aggressive and isnt gaining any town points from me

Also, this right there. It's a null tell, but just out of curiosity, I want to know what made you think that.

[Meransiel]

@Confid: lol, then I don' understand anything about him anymore.

@Meransiel: What gives you town reads on Hiraki, me, and Number 58?

You are active scumhunting. Hiraki is passive aggressive (with accent on the latter), which is either a scum or a town tell for what I'm concerned. Number 58...well, his posts just...

feel

townish. Dunno how to explain it properly.

Also, why did you feel the need to mention some of your null reads when you didn't list everyone in the game?

Hey, there are too many players to remember them all. Mind telling me anybody important that I missed? Seriously, please tell me.

@Hiraki and singersigner: I actually have a problem reading this two chaps. They both have a...way of posting, that I don't know whether I should attribute to personality or alignment. Hiraki is being overprotective of himself, immediately questioning everyone that shows even the sightliest suspicion of him.

You should try it more often. Especially if the other person can't bring up any reason. It's a nice way to find easy scum.

I...believe you...

[Meransiel]

Klazam - oh, how could I forget him? Heh, low-profiling, not paying enough attention and whatnot - heh, neutral towards town, I guess.

Dr - null reads currently

Hazard - again, is he even playing?

[Meransiel]

welcome hackerhuck and Apokalyptika

Nacho - town

explain.
I have never seen a townie play like nacho has done. Hopefully won't again
but yeah, I consider his list as shield of sorts. It was odd that he included the mods in them at first though

It was just me being an idiot and forgetting that this game is roleless. No, read is neutral now.

@TS: I'm getting a slight scum read on you.

Twistedspoon - neutral, leaning town

That certainly doesn't make any sense to me. I really shouldn't be complaining that i've got a town read but the contradictions and the closeness between them are just so... odd

There ARE, after all, 3 scums in this game. Getting scum reads on 4 or 5 players at the same time wouldn't be too helpful, aye? Plus, the others posted more than you, so I had more to go by. Neutral, leaning town, mind you, is still a mostly null read.

you jump too easily on wagons.

wait a sec

my first (and only) vote of the game was on you in page 8. If anything, I've been very conservative with my vote. slight omgus here?

It would be omgus if I would be voting you for it. It was just that your reasons to vote was a bland repetition of a wrong argument. You weren't conservative with your vote, you were just

absent

for most of the time, chap.

gut > reasoning

Not sure what your point is here.

But happy scumday!

Scum...day?!

[Meransiel]

Mera-

My vote was on you because of your response. It felt wrong to me. Instead of posting something meaningful- you act like "pressuring you" was a joke.

Then your reply.... It's like you think its not worth the effort for me to question you. One thing i did get from your second response was the impression that you thought it would have been better for me to leave my vote on Hiraki, who claims he got two games mixed up. Why is that? It seems that you think that Hiraki's wagon had a good reason behind it or something.

Then you dimiss bvi in a jokey manner.

This is a lot of things i just gained from voting you. It seems that my vote was justified.

I dont see a response to this. You seem to have forgotten i was in this game.

in other news, Silver and Fur both feel town to me. Their efforts at generating these kinds of posts seem nonscummy to me.

There are 2 ways of protecting yourself in this game: pointing fingers at somebody else or pointing out the flaws in your argument. Note that:

1. At the time you made that argument, I had nobody to point fingers to (according to my own, personal reads).
2. You base your whole argument on me not paying attention to your argument. So jumping at your post and being passive-aggressive would make you accuse me of arguing semantics, WHICH is very anti-town and therefore could get me lynched. As so, yes, I do think laughing your suspicion off was the least risky thing I could've done.


@TS: If you have been pondering for so long in this game and been conservative of your vote, thinking everything through, then why, when questioned, you gave one single reason for voting me, and that reason not of your own and that I have personally disproved? (a disprove that you were too lazy to comment on, apparently). Also, in your reply you were painfully unaware of the difference between jumping on wagons too easy and wishy-washy voting - which you claim I've said you did.

To be perfectly honest, I am struggling to not insult you. A lot, actually.

[Meransiel]

You're so goddamn dense, that's what you are!...whatever, guess Hiraki had to deal with this sort of thing without bursting in flames too...

[Meransiel]

If you would check my last posts on the last 2 pages or so, you will see that my suspicion of Hiraki has decreased quite a lot.
Plus, I was not upset by the fact you were voting me. Hence, my laughing off your suspicion was neither a counterattack nor sarcasm, it was just...me being myself, dunno.

[Meransiel]

Just surprised is all. I mean, everybody needs pressure, if a wagon is already half-started, why abandon it and go for someone new?

Fine. Explain this line, then.

I was curious, not disapproving. To clarify, I didn't say:

"You must stay on the Hiraki wagon." Instead, I said something in the lines of:
"I wanna know why you're off the Hiraki wagon."

There's a difference.

Scum have no motivation for not posting content? Scum have no motivation for actively lurking, without adding to the discussion at hand? Scum have no motivation for saying as little as possible, trying to not slip up?

You have a very odd idea of how to play Mafia.

Seems sensible and thought out. But Nacho is acting so strange I honestly don't know who to believe concerning him...

[Meransiel]

It would be omgus if I would be voting you for it. It was just that your reasons to vote was a bland repetition of a wrong argument. You weren't conservative with your vote, you were just

absent

for most of the time, chap.

I don't really like this response. What difference does it make if he was OMGUS'ing or not? As you've said yourself, arguing semantics rather than the actual point is not good.

Not when it defeats an argument entirely.

Odd defence of Pim here:

Ooh, the game going on painfully randomly at this point.

I think Pim is just trying to be funny (and failing), by the way.

What's odd about it?

I've requested a replacement. This game is gonna take way too long with the number of players, and I cant commit to it with my upcoming schedule. Good luck everyone

Go die. Kidding .

I've been rereading more carefully, and Confid's not too impressive to me. The early Pim vote was silly, and his interactions with #58 were scummy. He pressure votes Nacho, then unvotes to attack somebody defending him, while carefully retreating to a neutral position on one of the most polarizing people in the game thus far.

FoS: Confid

Also, the fact that Nacho repeatedly had the mod and backup mod on his lynch list shows a total lack of caring. Again, since Nacho's not stupid, he's scum. I like my vote better and better.

Coming back to more recent times, Meransiel's emotional play does not impress. Also, Twisted, why did you say that Nacho's too dangerous to lynch today?

Preview edit: Feel free to call me Apok <3 Also, did you really find my one post scummier than everyone else's accumulated efforts?

Am I the only one reacting emotionally in this game? A tad tunnelish there...
Your arguments on Confid seem pretty consistent, though.

hiraki's flip flops disturb me slightly

Yay, I'm not the only one baffled by his posting style .

Silverbullet, I am with you. I do find fur annoying and I'm switching my vote from nacho to fur VOTE: fur

Fur is pretty rude and dismissive to other players and it doesnt seem to be getting anywhere. I think it just increases scum points on him and him being this way while defending himself is scummy. Why is fur still so mad and aggressive over someone changing his quote tags? It's over and I don't see why you have such as overreaction for this type of thing.

This isn't even about Confid and I anymore
This is a ploy that Silverbullet is using to beat a dead horse
Glad you replaced out, though,

as you must be bad to give in to this.

Ok, I must admit, the bolded part makes me wonder a little.

If you would check my last posts on the last 2 pages or so, you will see that my suspicion of Hiraki has decreased quite a lot.
Plus, I was not upset by the fact you were voting me. Hence, my laughing off your suspicion was neither a counterattack nor sarcasm, it was just...me being myself, dunno.

OK, so who are you suspicious of?
TwistedSpoon?
You are close to where I want to unvote, but I'm really not sure

My thoughts on Hiraki are still...contradictory. At this point, Confid seems the most scummy to me, and Nacho...well, I'm not getting neither town nor scum reads from him, but...kinda doubt his usefulness, you know? But that's not a reason to vote someone over, so I'll let him be for the moment. And yes, I am, indeed, starting to consider Twistedspoon.


Anything I missed?

[Meransiel]

Odd defence of Pim here:

Ooh, the game going on painfully randomly at this point.

I think Pim is just trying to be funny (and failing), by the way.

What's odd about it?

If you go back to the link, I don't see what you could be referring to in that post. Your choice of words also makes it look like you're trying to keep the game from getting serious.

Not the only one. If you look back, you will see people talking about why having alts is cool.

[Meransiel]

If you go back to the link, I don't see what you could be referring to in that post. Your choice of words also makes it look like you're trying to keep the game from getting serious.

Not the only one. If you look back, you will see people talking about why having alts is cool.

True, but you were the only one defending another player.

Also, stating my own, honest opinion.

[Meransiel]

It would be omgus if I would be voting you for it. It was just that your reasons to vote was a bland repetition of a wrong argument. You weren't conservative with your vote, you were just

absent

for most of the time, chap.

I don't really like this response. What difference does it make if he was OMGUS'ing or not? As you've said yourself, arguing semantics rather than the actual point is not good.

Not when it defeats an argument entirely.

And how does arguing over the definition of OMGUS defeat his argument? It may make his argument look weaker, but it doesn't address the actual point.

There was no actual point in it. He said my accusations on him bandwagoning are silly, when

the topic was full of people justifying why I would be a good vote

. See the contradiction there? I don't need to defeat a player which defeats himself.


@Nacho: I am very much awaiting to hear your conclusions. Even though I know it will probably be a wall of reasons why I'm scum.

[Meransiel]

And how does arguing over the definition of OMGUS defeat his argument? It may make his argument look weaker, but it doesn't address the actual point.

There was no actual point in it. He said my accusations on him bandwagoning are silly, when

the topic was full of people justifying why I would be a good vote

. See the contradiction there? I don't need to defeat a player which defeats himself.

But why did you bother saying, "It would be omgus if I would be voting you for it"?

Because he accused me of omgusing.


@Fur - not that easy to make a wall provided only a couple people post regularly, and the main points have been presented already, aye? Wrote what I thought was notable, collected my own set of reads and suspicions, I don't think I'm exactly posting contentless, if that's what you're accusing me of doing.

[Meransiel]

But why did you bother saying, "It would be omgus if I would be voting you for it"?

Because he accused me of omgusing.

Yeah, and I don't see why a townie would be concerned enough about being accused of OMGUS that he would try to invalidate the accusation on a technicality.

Said technicality being the fact that I'm not even seriously considering Twistedspoon. So...not really a technicality. So...that doesn't prove I didn't OMGUS because...why?

[Meransiel]

Because, don't know, I am a popular lynch, I could get killed, if I get killed, the town has 1 vote less, true?

[Meransiel]

As a (sort of) disinterested party here, I just read it that he wanted to update and refine his reads, not that his initial reads were flawed. Really, SB, I think you're making too much out of this.

Interested in how those new reads will look like, though.
By the way, reinforced my pro-town reads on silver.

Because, don't know, I am a popular lynch, I could get killed, if I get killed, the town has 1 vote less, true?

How can we know... only you can know...

Not exactly easy to motivate the uses of phrasings. Seriously, the second best way that crossed my mind was to show a game where I was town and used the same phrasing. So yeah, not many good ideas. More like answering a question to have it answered, rather than providing a real answer, that which, in this case, may not even exist.

[Meransiel]

(Hold soon to be tomorrow.)

This is starting to become quite annoying.

[Meransiel]

I don't believe him. Lazy people...

[Meransiel]

Voted you before you started suspecting me, so no, that's not why I have my vote on you.

Also,

I am not scum distancing and then buddying from him

...wasn't that defense kind of unneeded?

[Meransiel]

considering how obviously town I am

Am I the only one having a problem with that wording? Seriously.

[Meransiel]

Hey, nacho, expected that.

'bout furc: Here, you're basically accusing me of lying. So I can't exactly contradict you, cause you will just say I'm lying again
'bout being overconcerned for being voted: I know I expressed it in a way that looks bad, but I was more curious of the reason he changed his vote than anything else.
'bout my reads on you and how they follow the crowd: Didn't say you're scum. Ever. Started out from town because I just forgot this is mountainous (lol), and then had nothing to say after I was reminded this is roleless. And you know what I said about you after I had nothing to say? Yeah, nothing.
'bout that list: Some of them were gut, and I couldn't just say that. Also, I wanted something to encompass everyone, and as such, I tried to encompass everyone. Didn't give a lot of reasoning for it because constructing cases on everyone isn't really helpful (or possible, or credible). Whatever

Aanyway...

unvote

, being that it was going nowhere anyway.

[Meransiel]

Oh deary me, how really good I am at dying...seems to happen every time, no matter my alignment...meh, my fault completely, though.

Ts, how's that about "wanting to lynch me from the very start"? Most arguments against me have been based on things I said after you voted me.

People that want to rush it, may I pretty please ask why? We're nowhere near deadline, it's not like there's anything to lose.

@singer: what made you suspicious of nacho, exactly? Seemed you did give quite some reasons, but a summarizing and highlight of the most important stuff would be nice. I mean, him being the 2nd top wagon after all, it would be sad to have 2 towns lynched day 1...

[Meransiel]

That seems...fair enough. Ok, I believe you.

[Meransiel]

Town just happened to be awesome in this game.

Au contraire

we were just terribad scum

No joke.