Newbie 1086 (GAME OVER)

[jasonT1981]

VOTE: jasont1981. 2845 posts and joined as newbie? Pffft. Scum.

Hey Runner, don't think we have played before, yea I have been on the site a while, currently awaiting IC status, already have SE status and played alot of games, I joined this game to replace someone who flaked as a favor to Zach. I love your avatar btw, 11th Doctor is amazing!

Anyway

vote: Space Pope

Sounds un-holy and the religious figure could end up being evil

Anyway, now down to the serious business, I am not sure I like how rockynpoika wants to get out of RVS so early (on page 1 :O) RVS is used to further discussion and get momentum into the game, you cut that out and you are left with nothing to go on, no clues or anything... something that benefits town. It seems rockynpoika has picked a target early and over an avatar issue and still is going to run with it... interesting...

you say you are keeping your vote on Zenbolt as he is 'being as scummy as you can be' yet actually fail to elaborate further on it... care to point out how he is being scummy?

it does seem like you picked a target and are sticking to it anyway (given there was another player with no avatar at the time) and call him scummy with no actual justification.

unvote
vote:Rocky

I don't like how you say you will try to clarify more later, if you have reason to suspect then why not now? or where you hoping others jump onto your reasoning and subsequently form a wagon?

[jasonT1981]

He used a random generator to decide on who to vote.

eh? how do you know he used a generator to decide who to vote? I saw nothing suggesting this.....am I missing something at 3am here?

have i missed something or where you just speculating he was?

[jasonT1981]

I don't get why it made you nervous...

you said mafia know no full bandwagon in RVS is going to start but then said the votes were making you nervous?

Unvote

because the fact that several votes are now on someone I was attempting to RVS makes me very nervous.

the mafia knows that no full bandwagon is going to start and therefore they have nothing to worry about when they are voted. They don't even have to respond. Later in the game, they do, but right now I find it slightly invalid.

makes no sense does it?

that sounds like nervous mafia to me really

unvote
vote:ProjectMatt

So if there never was a real reason that it would take off, then why get nervous about it?

[jasonT1981]

I also do not like Jason's post 22. Preemptively giving an excuse (3am comment) for not knowing what rocky meant.

time aside, I actually did not know what had been meant as there was no mention of a random generator that I knew about and was slightly confused as to how he knew one was used... turns out afterwards that Mersenne Twister was a randomizer site. I didn't know that.

[jasonT1981]

Your attempts at scumhunting are pretty odd to me. N

ow, presuming that I was mafia who just a made a mistake, what would I be "nervous" about, as you say?

I'm curious as to what your reasoning is.

Ummmm the fact you made a mistake? lol

[jasonT1981]

I fail to understand what your asking sorry..or even why.

Anyway,

Anyone can play in a newbie game regardless of experience or how long they have been on the site. I am an IC on MS and an IC is inserted into every Newbie game anyway, however the mod, Zachrules replaced into a game of mine not so long ago which is also a newbie game and therefor as a favor to Zach I replaced into this game as a replacement was needed before this game could begin.

OK, I started playing Mafia offsite about 2008 and came here in 2009 and have been playing here since. I usually play theme games as I am a flavor junkie however I will sometimes /in for a newbie.. the last time I did i was an SE however my status has been upgraded to IC.

hope this helps, however I fail to understand your asking.

[jasonT1981]

I disagree, actually. Mafia is very careful and precise as to what they say

.

I don't get why it made you nervous...

you said mafia know no full bandwagon in RVS is going to start but then said the votes were making you nervous?

Unvote

because the fact that several votes are now on someone I was attempting to RVS makes me very nervous.

the mafia knows that no full bandwagon is going to start and therefore they have nothing to worry about when they are voted. They don't even have to respond. Later in the game, they do, but right now I find it slightly invalid.

makes no sense does it?

that sounds like nervous mafia to me really

unvote
vote:ProjectMatt

So if there never was a real reason that it would take off, then why get nervous about it?

Once again, caution. Obviously the majority vote isn't going to spontaneously fall on one person, and I stand by this statement. It's just the fact that I thought three votes were on Zhang that made me very cautious.

Your attempts at scumhunting are pretty odd to me. Now, presuming that I was mafia who just a made a mistake, what would I be "nervous" about, as you say? I'm curious as to what your reasoning is.

note the bold...

he says scum are careful and precise in what they say... then says about how he is cautious..

Yea, scumslip!

[jasonT1981]

I have no reason to stick with my randvote, so

unvote

.

Putting matt at L-2 with little more explanation than "I want to get on a bandwagon," though? That's good enough to get me out of RVS.

Vote: rockynpoika

ummm he did actually give reasoning... are you paying attention?

I see nothing wrong with what he said about getting onto the bandwagon, he has legitiment reasons given in that very post... Now if he just came on and said I can get on this wagon and voted with no interaction or comments then yes, it would be scummy.

Also, why the hell where you still in RVS mode? there is plenty of discussion going.

the fact you ignore a lot of it strikes me as odd and just pick one thing and vote is worrying..

there is so much to talk about yet you seem to ignore it to push weak sauce....

[jasonT1981]

I still don't like Rocky's page 1 play as I have outlined... but Matt and now Morgi have shot up my scum list dramatically already

[jasonT1981]

Also, why the hell where you still in RVS mode? there is plenty of discussion going.

I'm not; are

you

paying attention?

Very much so paying attention, I really think you are not though..

I have no reason to stick with my randvote, so

unvote

.

Putting matt at L-2 with little more explanation than "I want to get on a bandwagon," though?

That's good enough to get me out of RVS

.

Vote: rockynpoika

bold and blue for emphasis

[jasonT1981]

Mogri,, what do you think of the Matt contradiction that looks like a scum slip to me?

[jasonT1981]

Matt: Have you ever seen a game elsewhere, were mods have played in their game? that's some bloody bastard modding if you ask me if true.

Have you played Mafia offsite before?
If so can you show us a game were the mod himself plays the game?

it would certainly help backup your standpoint if you could..

[jasonT1981]

Posting will be staggered next few days, started a new job this morning and worked close to 12 hours... exhausted so will be catching up tomorrow.

[jasonT1981]

Actually, votes count anytime... RVS or not.. I have actually seen someone lynched in RVS. -2 in serious or RVS all count still as -2 regardless.

if Rocky was at -2, it is -2 regardless of when it was.

I will catch up later today, been working last 2 days flat out so not had a chance to read.

[jasonT1981]

Vote's staying where it's at because Jason hasn't answered my question yet. Reposting just for the sake of being nice:

@Rocky: Why do you think the case on Matt is more promising? I'm curious.

Ah ok, sorry this question seemed to be at Rocky considering it said @Rocky.. so how can you keep your vote on me for asking a question that was not aimed at me? anyway.

I think it the most solid read at the minute and I have already outlined my reasonings behind it a few times which is easy to see why.. Is there another case out there that is stronger? or that you at least feel is stronger?

[jasonT1981]

Welcome DarkCoffee

[jasonT1981]

yes, the vote would count from your predecsor

[jasonT1981]

I fail to see how people would not know the mod is not in the game, the mod is the one who sends you the roles so for him to then play would be complete bastard modding, he/she would know the roles, who was scum etc.. I am not sure how epicmafia works.. but whatever... I don't think it is scummy... its just weird that it was not known.

just out of curiousity, who sends you the roles on epicmafia then? the mod?

[jasonT1981]

Fair enough, I guess that clears up the early confusion. thanks for clarifying that.

[jasonT1981]

wall coming, sorry folks.. if I missed anything directed at me, let me know so I can answer

The same thing can be seem in post 33. A sense of nervousness, and then an unrelated "lol" right after. Note that at the time, it was in the afternoon, and therefore it being late can no fit as a valid excuse.

Wrong, it may have been afternoon for you, but it was late evening for me.

I often post its late, or its (X o'clock) when posting late at night, I am sure if you look around you will see this...

@Jason, post 48
You posted a while ago claiming that I slipped, and at that point, I had yet to respond. But for some reason you claimed that I have drastically moved up in your scum meter. Why the sudden change inbetween those few posts?

Jason, your post number 54 is confusing to me. I'm not sure what you are implying. I am a frequent player of epicmafia, so yes, I have experience in this game, but mafiascum is unlike this website. There are no such things as RVS's or even asking random questions to get discussion going. Mods can play games as freely as they desire.

Anyway, this is all I have for the moment. I unvote sisterman and withhold future voting until I see more responses and discussions.

well, if I feel you have made a scumslip... off course you are going to move up my scum meter, yes?

re:post 54: It has been explained to me now, I get MS and EM are two completly different sites with diff playstyles now, I just wanted to know what way their games are set up so as to find out if your reaction to here was genuiene... since it was cleared up for me in a recent post by coffee, I believe it was.

fos's:

rockynpoika and jasonT1981

From what I can tell, Jason seems to be attempting to stray as far away from Rocky as possible, but he's desperately clinging to suspect me. A while back he posted that "he doesn't like Rocky's play, but Matt has drastically shot up my scum meter", and that was the end of it.

Saying you suspect somebody and then avoiding them like the plague = a possible light bus.

where have you been, I suspected rocky right from page 1.. however he is currently 3rd on my list of suspicions... to say I am straying away from him is just plain wrong.

jasonT1981: You've been pretty fixed on projectmatt as of late. Thoughts on any other players & their styles of posting?

Space Pope - seems to be asking questions, trying to get a feel for the players coming across as town to me, making some good points

MOI - Unsure as of now, will be able to get a better read of him later in the game.

Morgi - town points for unvoting rocky when he left to give replacement time to catch up.. seems to have some bad logic IMO, have a shaky feeling about him

Coffee - to early to tell, suspect Rocky as scum though

TOGTFO - coming across as town right now

ZengarZombolt- leanign town right now but I want to address this.

And now some questions.
@Jason: So why is town supposed to be less careful with what they say? Isn't that going to make them prone to commit mistakes that scum can use to their advantage?

Because town should not be afraid to say what they feel or be afraid of beign put under presure, its scum who should be afraid of this and therefor are alot more cautious. He said scum are cautious and I am... then

More reads later in the game when I get them, anyone else is null right now to me
as for this

Sorry, but from my point of view, I am town, and my wording will naturally come out in that way. I can't really help that.

I often find those who go out of their way to tell others they are town are usually scum trying to hard to look town... thats just my personal veiw based on things I have seen in mafia

@MOI- What is your viewpoint on Lynch-all-Liars?

Lynch all Liars, like all policy lynches, is flawed at best. I see it implemented as often as an excuse for Scum to effect a bad lynch as I do Town using it to lynch scum.

I am sorta on the fence about lynch all liers...mostly it is scum caught lying however I have known town to sometimes lie in what is called a gambit to bring out scum and make them more obivious or catch them red handed.

[jasonT1981]

JasonT1981

: I'm curious as to why exactly you felt the need to random vote, unvote, and then vote again in the same exact post. While this may not be scummy in and of itself, I felt that your random vote then became an unnecessary part of your post. I realize this may have been a joke vote, but still. I just found it a bit odd is all. From what I can glean, you were all for voting projectmatt, due in part to the large misunderstanding of the use of the word "mods" in regards to EpicMafia, as well as projectmatt's inadequate explanations of the site itself. I am not entirely sure how I feel about you at this moment in time, to be quite honest. I felt you were tunneling a bit on projectmatt a bit, again due to the EM misunderstanding. I also believe Runner posted something to this effect as well, in his ISO post #4.

I mostly always will make a random vote then get down to business. Either it be in the same post or a bit later in the game.. just so happened I saw things I wanted to address in my first post.

[jasonT1981]

What do you think of SpacePope’s floating of the Lynch All Liars policy in regards to Matt given it was based on the following facts?

1. The confusion about Mods playing based on EM’s site norms
2. SpacePope incorrectly identified Matt as voting for the Mod

1) i don't blame him for being confused, I was too as to the whole thing. Personally, I do think the confusion was genuine from all parties. I know nothing about EM norms as I have never played there.

2) hmmmm not sure, where did he do this? his post 30 correctly identified Zen as voting the mod.. what I see is Zan following up on Matt not knowing himself about the mod not being in the game... but I don't see where he incorrectly identified Matt as voting for the mod unless it was something different, I am reading the game again as I type this so will comment if I come across anything.

one thing that strikes me as odd is this post...

Post 66 TOGT makes a post about his thoughts... but remains uncommited to them by following up in 67 with

Going to put my FoS on Matt for now. Not sure if that is where my vote is going to stay at though.

not sure why he says not sure if this is where his vote stays because he actually unvoted in post 66 in his first proper game posting..

ohhhh Wait on re-read is this the place were Pope thought it was Matt?

MOI- ??? Why did you only quote the first sentence in the paragraph as an answer to your question? I said exactly why it is scummy. Now onto the two quotes I posted. He is lying that he thought the mod was in the game. 1) It is an excuse to why he voted Zach. 2) He lied. Lynch all liars. What excuse would he have for lying about that as town? He is scum.

Ah it must be, actually... this seems very agressive.. I don't agree fully with lynch all liers, I have said before about gambits.. the voting mod thign does seem genuiene upon it being looked into and explained.. hmmm SP, how do you know he lied? it does seem genuiene to me....

I agree with MOI 77

Can you prove he didn’t think Zach was in the game? I agree it doesn’t seem logical but to outright state you know what was in Project’s head is fairly absurd.

Your inability to conceive of a Town motivation for lying (which once again isn't assured to have even happened) about the Mod being in the game does not mean it could only be scum motivated.

Again – what does he gain as scum by stating that he thought Zach was in the game. Keep in mind that Zengar had already posted his Mod vote before Project had posted himself.?

ok, this caught my eye with a big red scummy as hell flag

Idle banter: If MoI's town win% is only 37.5 and his scum win% is 83.3, does that mean we're statistically ahead of the game to lynch him?

Statistics mean nothing in the individual game.. lynching someone based on W/L ratio as scum or town is obsurd and very very scummy. I don't like how he disguises it with 'idle banter'

unvote
vote:Morgi

[jasonT1981]

JasonT1981

: I'm curious as to why exactly you felt the need to random vote, unvote, and then vote again in the same exact post. While this may not be scummy in and of itself, I felt that your random vote then became an unnecessary part of your post. I realize this may have been a joke vote, but still. I just found it a bit odd is all. From what I can glean,

you were all for voting projectmatt, due in part to the large misunderstanding of the use of the word "mods" in regards to EpicMafia, as well as projectmatt's inadequate explanations of the site itself

. I am not entirely sure how I feel about you at this moment in time, to be quite honest.

I felt you were tunneling a bit on projectmatt a bit, again due to the EM misunderstanding.

I also believe Runner posted something to this effect as well, in his ISO post #4.

Wrong, I questioned him over the EM thing but never tunneled or made it a part of my case, in fact you will see that I have said I believe his confusion to be genuiene.. the only reason I was questioning him on it was to get an understanding of his thoughts.. I never once made it a part of my case at all against him... my main belief is that he has scum slipped.

[jasonT1981]

do I really have to point it out again? given you already commented on it!

Mogri,, what do you think of the Matt contradiction that looks like a scum slip to me?

It is not a contradiction to say that mafia are cautious and that he is also cautious. Don't be ridiculous.

Not knowing the mod wasn't playing is odd, but not particularly telling one way or the other.

but once more

I disagree, actually. Mafia is very careful and precise as to what they say

.

I don't get why it made you nervous...

you said mafia know no full bandwagon in RVS is going to start but then said the votes were making you nervous?

Unvote

because the fact that several votes are now on someone I was attempting to RVS makes me very nervous.

the mafia knows that no full bandwagon is going to start and therefore they have nothing to worry about when they are voted. They don't even have to respond. Later in the game, they do, but right now I find it slightly invalid.

makes no sense does it?

that sounds like nervous mafia to me really

unvote
vote:ProjectMatt

So if there never was a real reason that it would take off, then why get nervous about it?

Once again, caution. Obviously the majority vote isn't going to spontaneously fall on one person, and I stand by this statement. It's just the fact that I thought three votes were on Zhang that made me very cautious.

Your attempts at scumhunting are pretty odd to me. Now, presuming that I was mafia who just a made a mistake, what would I be "nervous" about, as you say? I'm curious as to what your reasoning is.

note the bold...

he says scum are careful and precise in what they say... then says about how he is cautious..

Yea, scumslip!

this is my other reason for believing he is scum too

I don't get why it made you nervous...

you said mafia know no full bandwagon in RVS is going to start but then said the votes were making you nervous?

Unvote

because the fact that several votes are now on someone I was attempting to RVS makes me very nervous.

the mafia knows that no full bandwagon is going to start and therefore they have nothing to worry about when they are voted. They don't even have to respond. Later in the game, they do, but right now I find it slightly invalid.

makes no sense does it?

that sounds like nervous mafia to me really

unvote
vote:ProjectMatt

So if there never was a real reason that it would take off, then why get nervous about it?

and a thin attempt to cover up

Your attempts at scumhunting are pretty odd to me. N

ow, presuming that I was mafia who just a made a mistake, what would I be "nervous" about, as you say?

I'm curious as to what your reasoning is.

Ummmm the fact you made a mistake? lol

also, Mog... nice ducking here

You can repeat the course of events multiple times if you like but I require a direct answer to my question. Again please answer the following question –

Should you be viewed as being scummy for placing someone at L-2 with little reasoning? This is a Yes or No question … please answer accordingly.

It's a loaded question. Either I can answer yes, and you'll view me as scummy, or I can answer no, and you'll view me as scummy. I see little point in answering such a question. Moreover, judging by your current vote, you seem to have made up your mind on the matter anyway.

nice way to answer without actually answering! any reason why you didn't actually answer yet danced around it so merrily

[jasonT1981]

Which points? Because right now, Jason is my #1 candidate.

Really, really? then why is your vote not on me.. if I am your number one suspect, your vote would have been on me long ago..

I have no reason to stick with my randvote, so

unvote

.

Putting matt at L-2 with little more explanation than "I want to get on a bandwagon," though? That's good enough to get me out of RVS.

Vote: rockynpoika

With rocky replacing out, I'll UNVOTE: rockynpoika for now and wait for the DarkCoffeeJazz to get into the game.

infact, rocky seemed to be your number one suspect as your vote was on him, and only taken off to allow a replacement time to catch up..Care to explain

1) if I am your no 1 suspect why your vote is not on me

2) if I am your number 1 suspect, why was your vote on Rocky, and only came off because he replaced out..given you unvoted for that reason, I believe your vote would still be on Rocky IF he was still in the game, yes?

[jasonT1981]

Question to all, does it not strike you as suspicious Mogri has named me his top suspect yet has not once had a vote on me in this game, in fact his vote was on Rocky until he replaced and he only unvoted to give Rockys replacement time to catch up.

Surely if I was his top suspect he would have

1) voted me when stating I was his no 1 suspect
2) had a vote already on me.

@Mogri:

1) if I am your number one suspect, why was your vote on Rocky
2) Why have you not yet placed a vote on me at all.

That seems very weak given I am your number one suspect and stinks of being very wishy washy and non-committal.

[jasonT1981]

The reason I don't currently have a vote on you is that I'm trying to pin down a read. Your play thus far has been erratic finger-pointing based on flawed logic (examples earlier in this post!). I would either call that scummy or just plain bad play, and while I'd like to think that your experience is sufficient to rule out bad play, it's a leap I'm not comfortable making at this time. If you really want me to put a vote on you, though, I will

So you have yet to vote me because you are trying to get a read... yet have me as your number one scum suspect. Surely that is a read in itself.

So, your not comfortable making a vote on your no1 suspect...

my view: FLUFF PLAY waiting to see if anyone else picks up on it and joins in so you can justify a vote as I said before

[jasonT1981]

Really, really? then why is your vote not on me.. if I am your number one suspect, your vote would have been on me long ago..

There are several players who aren't voting right now. Presumably, they all have suspicions as well. I don't see what the problem is here.

Yes but NONE of them have declared someone as their no1 scum suspect..

your suspicion is null and the reason you have not voted is you are waiting to see if others can pile onto your suspicions so you can then have justification for your vote.

[jasonT1981]

haha had two windows open making quotes and pressed submit instead of copying the other over to one bigger post., those above two are in the wrong order.

[jasonT1981]

[quote="Mogri"
Quick, someone tell me: what's Jason's read on MoI? Does he have one? Who knows? I sure don't, because Jason hasn't said a word to or about MoI. What's MoI's read on Jason? We don't know that, either, because even though I asked MoI directly, he didn't respond. He essentially said, "I'll tell you in a week or so." Why haven't two of the most active players felt any need to interact?[/quote]


Complete and utter lie, we have both addressed each other.

[jasonT1981]

very short V/LA back on Friday afternoon, sorry going to be out of town for a bit

[jasonT1981]

Im sorta back, but going to catch up in morning.. i am completely exhausted

[jasonT1981]

weee bit tiny big bit drunk at the minute, but to whoever it was said I have not been intereacting with MOI I want to direct your attention to this.

Oh, since it was said directly after he quoted a MIO post, I thought it was directed at him. My bad~

[jasonT1981]

im back from a busy weekend, will be posting content later today. Got a few things to do first

[jasonT1981]

ATTENTION

- Mogri is at L-1. Another vote for him will result in a lynch and end the day.

No-one should vote Mogri without stating their intention to do so and allowing him to claim.

No one should hammer, until Jerako has had time to catch up and give his thoughts.

[jasonT1981]

Like MOI I am not going to repeat my reasoning... I believe I have given my views enough already for you to understand why I am voting you and believe you to be scum.

[jasonT1981]

Morgi saying people avoid answering things... ironic eh?

[jasonT1981]

Morgi, read the game you will see I have had interaction with MOI... I also have answered the question.

Also, L-1 is not premature.

[jasonT1981]

1) IF Morgi is town, and that IMO is a very slight possibility then my attention will be turning back to Matt. As for no3 suspect I am not quite sure as of now. but probably Runner has picked up my attention with his lurking. DJC is also up there a bit... I can't shake Rocky's early play despite DJC looking better so he is coming across as town, but early rocky still has me thinking.

2) yea, I kinda have been slacking.. I am suffering a bit of Mafia Burnout right now its just hard to get myself into the game at times.

[jasonT1981]

1) IF Morgi is town, and that IMO is a very slight possibility then my attention will be turning back to Matt. As for no3 suspect I am not quite sure as of now. but probably Runner has picked up my attention with his lurking. DJC is also up there a bit... I can't shake Rocky's early play despite DJC looking better so he is coming across as town, but early rocky still has me thinking.

2) yea, I kinda have been slacking.. I am suffering a bit of Mafia Burnout right now its just hard to get myself into the game at times.

[jasonT1981]

Fair enough... What does it say about Jason, though, that he hasn't gotten around to answering?

Do you not read the thread? I’m seriously asking because I gave my read on Jason back at post 218 –

.

the fact he was asking people to show him why we are voting him as well as this shows he does not read and is coasting through and ignoring things.

I am still wondering why he danced around your question only to then say about you avoiding things.

[jasonT1981]

Alright, 3 days to deadline... L-1

CLAIM.

Stop stalling... the majority are waiting for your claim and you avoided it for long before saying it was premature.

3 days to go and L-1 is NOT premature... the fact you are refusing to claim right now is speaking more than words can say too.

[jasonT1981]

Morgi what is the question then?

no interaction you say? READ the game!!!!!!!

@MOI- What is your viewpoint on Lynch-all-Liars?

Lynch all Liars, like all policy lynches, is flawed at best. I see it implemented as often as an excuse for Scum to effect a bad lynch as I do Town using it to lynch scum.

I am sorta on the fence about lynch all liers...mostly it is scum caught lying however I have known town to sometimes lie in what is called a gambit to bring out scum and make them more obivious or catch them red handed.

and here

What do you think of SpacePope’s floating of the Lynch All Liars policy in regards to Matt given it was based on the following facts?

1. The confusion about Mods playing based on EM’s site norms
2. SpacePope incorrectly identified Matt as voting for the Mod

1) i don't blame him for being confused, I was too as to the whole thing. Personally, I do think the confusion was genuine from all parties. I know nothing about EM norms as I have never played there.

2) hmmmm not sure, where did he do this? his post 30 correctly identified Zen as voting the mod.. what I see is Zan following up on Matt not knowing himself about the mod not being in the game... but I don't see where he incorrectly identified Matt as voting for the mod unless it was something different, I am reading the game again as I type this so will comment if I come across anything.

I agree with MOI 77

Can you prove he didn’t think Zach was in the game? I agree it doesn’t seem logical but to outright state you know what was in Project’s head is fairly absurd.

Your inability to conceive of a Town motivation for lying (which once again isn't assured to have even happened) about the Mod being in the game does not mean it could only be scum motivated.

Again – what does he gain as scum by stating that he thought Zach was in the game. Keep in mind that Zengar had already posted his Mod vote before Project had posted himself.?

If thequestion actually IS about a read on MOI I also refer you to this....

MOI - Unsure as of now, will be able to get a better read of him later in the game.

So please go back and read the game, you will see I have answered your question...

you have proven you have not read game through

1) ignoring answers to questions
2) asking questions already answered then saying not answered
3) saying no interaction when there was

I also have had little interaction with Dark Coffee and Space Pope.. .why only focus on MOI.. I actually probably have had less interaction with them than I have MOI.

Also is there ANY REASON why you are avoiding my comments on it not being premature? your at L-1 at refusing to claim or give reasons not to.

DIE SCUM DIE!!!

[jasonT1981]

I'm not asking about your read on Jason - not specifically. I'm asking specifically about Jason's avoidance of that particular question. Again, he's claiming to have had interactions with you when he has not. He is also now claiming that he has answered the question when he has not.

Ok, having gone back and looked at your original statement and I see that I misread it.

I think his not answering is part and parcel of his general sliding play and thus suspect.

I actually have answered it as quoted..

I actually have interacted with you as shown

his points are invalid

[jasonT1981]

As I have said, I have had less interaction with some people than I have with you, MOI... I just wonder why he is so focused on it only being with you?

[jasonT1981]

why just me, Morgi.. a few have been calling for it.

[jasonT1981]

Also, Morgi... do you not have anything to say about what I have recently posted, showing that you are wrong and I did answer questions/interact like youscum tried to say I didn't?

[jasonT1981]

@MOI... as scum, what benefit would I get out of pushing someone (as scum) I knew was town on day 1? surely as scum I would have known I would be drawing heat right off the bat day 2?

I believed Morgi was scum and went after him quite hard.. why as scum would you do that day 1? its almost suicidal and throwing myself out there for D2 suspicion/possible lynch as soon as he flipped town.

It makes no sense for someone to go that hard on someone day 1.

I was wrong about Morgi I admit, I probably tunneled a little too much but it was my complete belief he was scum due to the things I had outlined and argued with him over in day 1.

[jasonT1981]

@MOI... as scum,

what benefit would I get out of pushing someone (as scum) I knew was town on day 1?

surely as scum I would have known I would be drawing heat right off the bat day 2?

I've bolded the portion that makes absolutely no sense. Scum of course know everyone who is Town Day 1 -- they know their buddies. The benefit is clear - mislynching Town.

The rest of you statement here is WIFOM. Scum would do it if they thought an argument like yours would buy them credibility Day 2.

That said the facts haven't changed - you hopped on Mogri's wagon and coasted the rest of the Day. After you voted Mogri you other 'scum-reads' basically disappear and your only interactions are to attack / debate Mogri and buddy up to me.

Jason

- who is scum?

re- the bolded..

my point is, the fact is I pushed so hard for his lynch.. as scum why would I push for a mislynch so damn hard knowing I would be in the line of fire tomorrow. I actually posted my reads while going after Morgi too. I also explained why I was 'coasting' as you have put it. During the latter part of Day 1 I was suffering high mafia burnout due to being in too many games.

However Runner and Matt are my main suspects for scum now.

[jasonT1981]

look back at me in ISO, you will see all the 'Evedience' you need to show why I suspected him.. but to name a few

1) naming me top suspect but not voting me - seemed very non committal
2) self voting - scum tell to me
3)avoiding questions
4) misrepping by saying I had not answered questions which I had and proved
5) Misrepping me by saying I had no interaction with MOI which i had and proved.
6) his general anti-town play noted by not only me but others.
7) His only scum reads where those who suspected him OMGUS Much?

Matt you had me as your 'FOS' and noted several times you found me scummy, yet no vote.. your vote was on sisterman but no more votes after you unvoted. Forgive me for not buying ' it was mearly a mistake' you did not have a vote on me.

vote: Matt

IF it was such a mistake yesterday, as you say to not have a vote on me...

why is it not on me today yet?

[jasonT1981]

2) self voting - scum tell to me

Scrap that one.. I am getting games confused...

Hence the reason I was getting burn out, too many games at once making it hard to keep track..

sorry. One of my games has now ended anyway, and my modded games have also completed

[jasonT1981]

MOI... I was at Matt from the start of game D1.

Matt, go back and read my posts and you will see I had pointed all of them out.. I could quote if you like, but it would be a lot of text walls

[jasonT1981]

After I had been putting pressure on you, I find it funny that you just outright vote me "because you don't buy it" and then ask a question that I had answered the post above you. I was going to make a case on you, as we are in a LYLO situation, and I wanted to be completely sure, but hey, if you wanna play it like that.

VOTE: Jason

Complete and utter OMGUS and misrep!

If you read back, there is alot more to me thinking you are scum than 'I didn't buy it' The fact you only voted me, when I voted you today is laughable. You said you made a mistake not voting me D1... still don't put a vote on me.. I vote you, and suddenly you vote me? Misrepping that the only reason I am voting you is 'Because I don't buy it'

[jasonT1981]

And I did the math wrong, I thought we didn't have another ML. In this case, I would like to lynch you badly.

Scum slip no2 from Matt?

You would like to lynch me badly because we DO Have another Mislynch??????

[jasonT1981]

The first thing I am going to reply to right now is Matt saying about my comments of 'I am not going to repeat my reasons'

I feel my reasons were well documented many times in the game and were completely ignored by Morgi, and now yourself to make me look bad by saying I did not answer them or give anything to address them when I had.

Ste makes a very good point above as to exactly what was missed ( just like interactions with MOI shown in 253 yet yuo still said I had none) because people (Matt, Morgi) were to lazy to look back and see I had already answered/responded to them and their questions. yet

STILL

are saying I had not.

Simply put... I had stated my reasons time and again, and to ask me for them yet again was futile and a waste of time. THAT is why I did not post them again...

@Matt, MOI

ALSO

refused to state his reasons again too..... why is this scummy for me but not a word said about him? we both did the same thing in refusing to reiterate our points...

Major double standards there, Matt

they had already been well documented and Morgi was blind to them saying he wanted to see our reasons when we already had shown them when he asked all who were voting him as to why they were)

I backed up my reasoning, and actions many times... you just failed to see it as has been proven by Ste above.


Actually, while I am here....

POST 276: @MOI... as scum, what benefit would I get out of pushing someone (as scum) I knew was town on day 1? surely as scum I would have known I would be drawing heat right off the bat day 2?

T

his is Jason's first post after Mogri flipped townie. Instead of just going "you know what, sometimes I'm wrong, deal with it."

, he makes a pathetic excuse and uses wifom as his argument. Gah.

Funny how you ALSO miss this???? And guess what...

it WAS ALSO IN MY FIRST POST AFTER MORGI FLIPPED TOWN!!!!

Love how you cut out half of what I say to make a case but lets look at my the bottom of my post you cut out shall we?

I was wrong about Morgi I admit

, I probably tunneled a little too much but it was my complete belief he was scum due to the things I had outlined and argued with him over in day 1.

Something else Convienitly(sp?) missed like the interactions with MOI to once again make a case on me look bad! seriousl, how many times am I going to be misrepped... lied about in this game to make me look scummy? So, how can you justify that now, Matt? thats now twice you have been shown to misrep/lie while making a case on me

now, lets move onto something else I have covered THREE TIMES ALREADY in this game, but again is ignored.. the question as to why I was coasting a bit towards the end of day 1...

2) yea, I kinda have been slacking.. I am suffering a bit of Mafia Burnout right now its just hard to get myself into the game at times.

. I also explained why I was 'coasting' as you have put it. During the latter part of Day 1 I was suffering high mafia burnout due to being in too many games.

Scrap that one.. I am getting games confused...

Hence the reason I was getting burn out, too many games at once making it hard to keep track..

I am SINCERELY happy with my vote right now on Matt.. nothing but lies and misreps about me right now.

[jasonT1981]

OK I see you retract the above and see you were wrong however.

But with that being said, I dislike how you mainly every other point because I was mistaken on one or two. Why do you disagree with the rest of my arguments, or rather, how do you disagree with them? Did Jason never change his personality?

Does he not jump on the easy targets? Tell me.

Are you saying you are an easy target, or Morgi was an easy target?

because if you are the easy target... I am the only vote on you.

If Morgi was the easy target.. why was there four other votes on him..

I went, and am going after who I thought were scum, not 'easy targets' as you put them.

Now Matt, IF you were reviewing all my posts and discecting them in your big post.. how did you miss the big post showing my interactions with MOI? I mean it was easy to find, especially if you were going through EVERY other post of mine..

that does not seem right.

[jasonT1981]

a lot of votes on someone, and the fact that they're generally suspected, DOES MAKE THEM THE EASY TARGET

.

This would be a valid point... IF the vote counts do not contridict what you are pushing.

Mogri - 5 (MagnaofIllusion,

JasonT1981,

Darkcoffeejazz, Space Pope, Jerako)

I wasn't only the 2nd person to vote Morgi....

And...lets look at you

projectmatt - 2 (

Jasont1981,

Space Pope)

The

FIRST

one to be voting you early day 1

AND THE ONLY ONE VOTING YOU TODAY

projectmatt - 1 (

JasonT1981)

So... given I was the first one on you both yesterday, and today... and the 2nd one on Morgi.. show me how that makes you both easy targets with, and I quote 'lots of votes on them'

Now, since when does first vote and second vote constitute 'lots of votes' and 'easy target'

[jasonT1981]

First point is that MOI DID state his reasons. You sheeped him, in some way or another. You're contradicting yourself, as you claimed earlier that MOI had given great reasons as to why Mogri is scum, and you weren't repeating it because it's already been said.

Actually MOI said

I'm still here.

It sounds like I've got four different votes on me for four different reasons. Can you four explain your votes?

Quite frankly - I'm not going to repeat my reasoning. I've made it clear in thread and we've been round and round about it

. Unless you have something new to add to the discussion I'm not really interested in rehashing things. I'm not trying to convince you that you are scum. Others have clearly indicated that they've seen enough of the argument.

point 1 disproven. also show me where I said MOI had shown 'great reasons'

Oh, and I did note the second part of your post, but I didn't keep it in, like I didn't quote the full posts for many of my quotes. I didn't want it to be ultra long. You said "I admit I was wrong on Mogri", but not without a "but", and not before saying all of that wifom stuff.

Yes, you conviently took out the part saying I admit I was wrong, then say that instead of saying I admit I was wrong I give a pathetic excuse..

T

his is Jason's first post after Mogri flipped townie. Instead of just going "you know what, sometimes I'm wrong, deal with it."

, he makes a pathetic excuse and uses wifom as his argument. Gah.

Point 2 disproven - why take out something I said, then make out I did not say it at all?

I'm saying that runner, mogri and I are essentially, "the easy targets" at this moment. It's perfectly fine to FOS the apparent most scummy, but the fact that you only push on those and barely even change your focus to the others make me think that you are jumping for the easy bait.

a lot of votes on someone, and the fact that they're generally suspected, DOES MAKE THEM THE EASY TARGET.

I was going through every post of yours, and I missed one that accidentally contradicted my point. I feel secure in this vote, also.

Point 3 - Disproven as in my above post..

Seriously, how many times are you going to lie/misrep/and say I didnt say things when I did?

I have countered everyone of your points and you have been proven many times wrong...

about me you have been wrong on

1) my interactions with MOI when you said I had none..
2) Your math when you said it would not be mislynch when I showed it would be
3) saying my easy targets had lots of votes when they didn't as I was either 1st or 2nd votes on them you claim runner is one of these easy targets yet I have NEVER had a vote on Runner....

4) the fact I DID admit I was wrong, yet you took it out to make me look bad
5) I had not given any reasons on Morgi, when I had


anything else I am missing here?

[jasonT1981]

There's not really a certain process of how I did the math, there were just more players

and more mafia

then I remembered.

Also, care to voice these concerns you have over my playing?

[/quote]

there is only two mafia. how are there more than you remembered? did you somehow only think there was only one mafia?

[jasonT1981]

or am I reading you wrong on this and you were thinking there was more mafia?

[jasonT1981]

This would be a valid point... IF the vote counts do not contridict what you are pushing.

I never claimed that just because somebody doesn't have a lot of votes means they're not the easy target, but rather, I was using Mogri as an example, because he was the easy target with a lot of votes.

except I have already shown that he was not an easy target with lots of votes on him at the time of my vote?

[jasonT1981]

First point is that MOI DID state his reasons. You sheeped him, in some way or another. You're contradicting yourself, as you claimed earlier that MOI had given great reasons as to why Mogri is scum, and you weren't repeating it because it's already been said.

Actually MOI said

I'm still here.

It sounds like I've got four different votes on me for four different reasons. Can you four explain your votes?

Quite frankly - I'm not going to repeat my reasoning. I've made it clear in thread and we've been round and round about it

. Unless you have something new to add to the discussion I'm not really interested in rehashing things. I'm not trying to convince you that you are scum. Others have clearly indicated that they've seen enough of the argument.

point 1 disproven. also show me where I said MOI had shown 'great reasons'

Still waiting on an answer on the above question.

[jasonT1981]

1. No, you had none\close to any. You directly spoke to each other in around one post, but aside from that you either just saw MOI as a null read, or you just seconded what he said. You've made no real attempt to actually go after him at all, which is what I mean. I lied about nothing, as I had previously pointed out the one post (out of the hundreds) where you two have specifically addresed each other.

This is a complete fabrication... there was more than one post that I quoted. I had less interaction with a few others in the game than MOI but nothing was made of that. You say it was one post... no, that one post actually showed quite a few posts in quotes of interaction with MOI.

your logic fails right now

[jasonT1981]

I think what he was asking is how would you feel about me if I was not defending myself as well as I was

[jasonT1981]

Post #137, #151, #169, #172, this is just an example of posts where MOI has made walls speaking and attempting to understand\interrogate Mogri, but eventually, after the argument was done, he stepped back and focused on other people. The problem is, most of the interactions you did with Mogri were forced and you didn't even try to change your focus until he was lynched. This is, just in case you were going to make me cite the posts where MOI gives reasons for his votes.

Again you fail to show where I actually said 'MOI has great reasons'

Oh, thats right.... I DIDN'T

Another lie from Matt towards me!

[jasonT1981]

Well, that puts me at L-1... I will claim but I want Jerako to ask this first.

You say I am defending myself well, I have shown how Matt has misrepped me to make me look scummy on many occasions as part of my defence. I sincerely feel you should look at that.

Alright, L-1 I am the Town Cop

and have an innocent on Jariko. I investigated him because of this post on D1 which caught my attention when reading the game again.

I would prefer a jason lynch. Mogri's flip would certainly be valuable, but I think it's slightly more likely that jason is the scum.

Barring a shift in votes to jason, I do fully intend to hammer you, Mogri.

I felt this was a bit suspect, because though he thought more of me bring scum, he was willing to hammer someone else.

[jasonT1981]

Not committing to a vote by this part of today is suspect.

That's a fair point. I wanted a reaction from one or both of them to help me decide which one to vote for, is all. They both seem to have ignored me though, for the most part.

VOTE: JasonT1981

If I didn't already have an innocent on you, I would point out how dreadfully scummy play this is.

[jasonT1981]

Actually Matt.. I have asked you to show me exactly word for word where I said 'MOI has great reasons'

you still have failed to do so, you have yet to show EXACTLY WHERE I SAID MOI HAD GREAT REASONS..

Also, how the hell does outting you on another lie reveal me>

[jasonT1981]

Just a question for Jason right now: You suspected me very hard yesterday, and you barely suspected Jerako at all. Why did you investigate him over me?

Because I am sure you are scum, and can provide proof of that. I was from Day 1. Good Cop play is to push for a lynch on scummier players and investigate middle of the road players who you are unsure about.

[jasonT1981]

OK Fair enough, I see that now. I was working on the assumption that you were saying I had said outright that I said MOI had great reasoning as opposed to the way I was interacting with him.

[jasonT1981]

Just a question for Jason right now: You suspected me very hard yesterday, and you barely suspected Jerako at all. Why did you investigate him over me?

Because I am sure you are scum, and can provide proof of that. I was from Day 1. Good Cop play is to push for a lynch on scummier players and investigate middle of the road players who you are unsure about.

by provide proof, I mean by building a case on you which I have been doing I believe

[jasonT1981]

..wow. I just saw Jason's cop claim now. Okay. Here's what we do.

Well, there's a decent chance that we do NOT have a doctor, looking at the possible setups, meaning t hat the mafia could kill immediately. I think over this cop claim and gather my thoughts. I think that if Jason is faking, the real one should claim

50/50 chance of their being a doc... nice subtle rolefishing btw.

[jasonT1981]

because you really had no need to bring a doc into it. 50/50 chance for a doc, you knew that if you read the setups.

[jasonT1981]

Caught scum

I'm the cop

Nice 1-1 you did there jason....

And yet... you didn't vote? lol

[jasonT1981]

vote: Jason

Got what I hoped for if I was going down.. no need to keep it going now.

[jasonT1981]

I was angry at first of the fake cop claim, but well done. I would have been more angry if I was town and it backfired... anger was more though on being caught more than anything... fake claiming as town is something I am not big on but well done.

I saw no kill and thought WHAT THE F**K and I think my face was probably like MOIs when seeing it.

I am sorry to MOI, my play was not the best but well done on salvaging it and beign able to distance from me so well. good game all, thanks Zach!