Battle for Olympus - Game Over!

[quadz08]

Vote: MoI

Can't be NK'ed N1 if you're lynched D1, right?

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*waves at Gandalf*

P-Edit: yes.

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We played in Mordor together, it hasn't been that long. I just died way too quickly (DAMN YOU FATE/VV).

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AGar: NEWBIE 965 WAS LONG AGO.

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AGar: NEWBIE 965 WAS LONG AGO.

INDEED OLD FRIEND (ARE WE FRIENDS?) BUT I HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN!

WE ARE TOTALLY FRIENDS.

MoI: good claim. *thumbsup*

Gandalf: I'm of the opinion that it would just clutter the thread with needless outguessing of the mods. It wouldn't accomplish anything, IMO

P-edit: MoI, USELESS POST. Just sayin'.

[quadz08]

^See, I told you AGar and I were friends.

However, point out the passive-aggressiveness in Gemini's post. I don't see it.

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He asked Chronos (and Dekes) a question. Why would he follow up with anything before there's an answer?

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Gandalf, the isssue is that we all got the same survey. Scum fakeclaims a role and massages their answers to the survey, and voila! We achieve nothing.

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ITT chesskid only knows Disney versions of Greek mythology. (Though I don't know how much non-Disney Greek mythology the mods know, so...)

Also, MoI gets townpoints for his claim, but he is NOT confirmed. If he's scum, this is what we call a gambit.

That's really bad WIFOM. Sacraficing a scum member right away to maybe gain some slight influence on some easily impressed townie is hardly an advantageous tactic for scum. Not convincing. And how it's "scummy at worst" needs some elaboration. Seems like you desperately need to graso at straws.

Unvote. Vote Ranger

Gandalf, the isssue is that we all got the same survey. Scum fakeclaims a role and massages their answers to the survey, and voila! We achieve nothing.

False.

Care to 'splain?

Simple: I think SD is scum. Ranger is attacking SD, and I doubt scum would bus this early. Hence, Ranger is town for now.

I disagree. This is poor reasoning, diddin.

He pretty much claimed he has more powers. Him rolenameclaiming would give you a guess at what those powers could be, hence, rolefishing.

I agree. This is good reasoning, diddin.

CMAR: 'splain post 89, too.

VOTE: ShadowDancer

If chess really has a daykill, I might smack the mods.

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First example that comes to mind? Kronos. Hades was not hated by the other gods in actual mythology, to my knowledge.

[quadz08]

(you're the only one)

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Ummmmmm, alright.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Shadow Dancer

Also, chess reads as town to me.

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AV's continued pressure on SnowBunny for the RVS thing is pretty ridiculous, IMO.

Elsewise, SD continues to dig a hole for himself with more poor logic.

Also, I believe that SD is L-3.

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I am inclined to believe AGar on this one. UNVOTE:

VOTE: AV <- next biggest scumread.

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CK: STOP ROLEFISHING.

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unvote, Vote: Chesskid

He's being scummier than usual, and trying too hard to lead. Plus if AGar is telling the truth Chesskid is likely scum based on having a similar role to SD.

So you think a scum Chesskid, with a role similar to a Town SD, thinks it's a good plan to attack SD on the basis that they have similar roles?

QFT.

217-219 make me scratch my head... Dekes proposes a wagon on me, SD votes me at the slightest hint a wagon could happen, and then Dekes hops right on when he sees the wagon on me is getting somewhere? Not looking good for old Dekes here.

I didn't know this game was vanillaless, but my original point on Chess stands. He's still the scummiest to me.

I agree with your point on Dekes. I found his call for your wagon, and then only voting AFTER shadow's vote, to be scummy.
However, I would like an explanation on why your point on Chess still stands.

Yep, that's why I proposed the wagon.

And you didn't comment on my other point. Do you think it would make sense for scum-chess to cc town-SD on Day 1 and risk a 1:1 trade?

(Bold mine.)

WUT. Explain this, please.

You did your RVS like scum do their RVS

everyone else on that page did TOWN RVS

What is the difference between town and scum RVS?

I'm looking forward to CMAR'S answers to my previous questions. He, AV, and diddin are definitely my scumreads right now (all pretty even).

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Examples?

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@quadz
It's no use to spread votes. Even less so on Day 1. Wagon is where it's at to get the proper results. CMAR is a good wagon, too. That's why I hopped on. But I'm more confident in my read on diddin. All I needed was a token of support.

So... start a wagon? Be the first vote? By just saying "hey I'd like to see a wagon on him," you kick off a wagon, with no record of it on the votecount. That's scummy.

Chess: Can you quote an example of a townie RVS and a scummy RVS from this game and explain the difference? Because I'm not seeing it.

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From what I can tell, a 'scummy RVS' comes from specific in-game references. Is that your reasoning? Or just coincidence?

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That reasoning makes sense, and I think I agree. It's a rather weak tell, though, and I'm confused why my RVS doesn't fall into the 'scum' category.

Hi BabySpice! Way to rocket up the scumlist. Make it a 4-way tie for me.

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The fact I joined the diddin wagon immediately and followed up with the case on him should demonstrate my reads. A sole vote on him doesn't send a message though.

BS, you said three things in your post that were said in almost exactly the same way by others before.

Mmmm... Normally I'd say your joining the diddin wagon immediately meant you were looking for town approval, but that approval came from SD, who isn't the greatest barometer of town opinion right now. I still don't like it, though.

[quadz08]

And sheeping is sheeping, regardless of how good the scumtell you're sheeping is.

Also, what? OMGUS-much?

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.... Was that intended to be a vote for chronopie? Cause if it was, WTF.

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UNVOTE:
VOTE: LordChronos

Early push towards Snow Bunny for modvote was scummy; next post (responding to Gemini) says it "might be a towntell or null, but I don't have to like it" which is him backtracking.
Says very little else outside of answering questions about that push, UNTIL
He says he's happy with his vote on Baby Spice, citing her pushing the blame for voting Chronopie instead of LC onto her children. Explain the scum motivation for shifting the game to a non-game entity to me, cause I think that it's a huge reach.

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He says he's happy with his vote on Baby Spice, citing her pushing the blame for voting Chronopie instead of LC onto her children.

Go and look at the initial vote from Baby please.

Chess says at 270 thet “Chronos isn’t leaning Town”.
Baby in post 272 says “Agree. Nothing in what he has posted reads as Town” and votes Chronopie.

Ostensibly the second sentence in 272 means Baby has reviewed Chronopie’s ISO.

Yet when you yourself question it she simply says “My mistake” and changes her vote to LC.

That doesn’t read to me as Town who made a mistake and when informed went back to recheck. That reads to me as Baby trying to buddy up to Chess’s reads and blowing it big-time. BabySpice does have a history as scum of buddying, BTW.

VOTE: BabySpice. The exercise of this discussion solidifies my read I formed based on her earlier play.

Bold mine.

I think that sentence was referring to LordChronos (as in, she went back and read LC's posts) and then proceeded to accidentally vote for Chronopie. But that's besides the point anyway; I'm not saying that BS isn't scummy. Rather, LC's reasoning for confirming his vote was really poor, and felt forced and scummy.

Explain the scum motivation for shifting the game to a non-game entity to me, cause I think that it's a huge reach.

Pretty easy actually. Voting for someone other than a player allows scum to RVS without fear of identifying a partner or clearing Town. Also it prevents tit-for-tat OMGUS RVS votes which have led to real wagons in the past.

Certainly not overwhelmingly strong motivations but certainly not non-existent either.

I think you missed my point here. (For one, "game" should be "blame," which probably doesn't help.) I was pointing out that there's no scum motivation for BS to say "My kids distracted me so I typed the wrong player's name."

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I disagree with your assessment. I can't see some 'mistyping' LordChoronos into Chronopie when being distracted. Their names are clearly distinct.

I believe that Baby saw Chess's post, pretended to ISO said player, and voted for the wrong one. When called on it she said 'Oops, kids distracted me'. If she had ISOed LordChoronos I have serious doubts she's accidently vote Chronopie.

I do fully admit my views may well be colored by my suspicion. But I still don't think it's the kind of mistake you make when distracted.

I disagree when you say that their names are clearly distinct, especially because Chronopie is typically referred to as "Chrono." And if you're distracted by 10 kids (holy shit, btw) I think typing a similar name is completely understandable mistake.

How was my response to Gemini backtracking?

My comment about being happy with my vote on Baby Spice had more to do with her declaration that Dekes is scummy then sheeping chesskid in voting me than it did with her utterly lame excuse for voting Chronopie first. Sorry for the confusion.

Explain the town motivation for shifting the game to a non-game entity rather than simply admitting the mistake to me. I agree with MoI that it doesn't seem likely that you could ISO someone, decide to vote them, then vote someone else.

As to the Gemini thing, you questioned Snow Bunny about it in a way that implied scumminess on her part. You then told Gemini that it might be a town-tell or a null-tell. That's... pretty much the definition of backtracking.

I'll accept your explanation on the second bit.

See my response to MoI for the third bit.

UNVOTE:

Mothrax's 315 is worth keeping in mind, and diddin didn't (ha!) respond to it. Interesting...

VOTE: CMAR

ANSWER MY QUESTIONS IN THIS POST.

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^I approve of this post.

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Ummm... except for the part where he, ya know, voted?

Ok. Thought overnight about BS. I don't think she's scummy, I just think she's playing poorly, and is pretty clearly our VI right now.

I am always for a D1 VI lynch. I think it removes anti-town players from the game before they can do any real harm, keeping distractions to a minimum in later days, and not having her around in LYLO / near-LYLO is definitely ideal, especially since MoI's claim requires us to lynch / vig him sometime around then anyway. With that in mind:

VOTE: Baby Spice

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Effffffff. Andy, dammit...

AGar, how does this affect your knowledge of the Poseidon role?

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SD: yes I'm serious. You are no longer confirmed not scum. AGar knows that Poseidon is in the game and not a fakeclaim. That does not mean that he knows Poseidon is town; he only thought that because of the original rulespost.

And also, yeah. Mod error FTW.

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(Gandalf, making a mistake is kind of the definition of mod error.)

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Mod: My vote is on Baby Spice.

You forgot to Unvote from CMAR.

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SD: Stop it. Barring AGar saying he knows you're town from his Role PM, you're probably gonna die today. Get over it.

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Well, crud. Now there's TWO good wagons on VI's.

UNVOTE:

We'll go with
VOTE: Shadow Dancer
since he's not only being dumb and useless, but he's scummier than BS.

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Baby Spice and Shadow Dancer.

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He's not a VI, in my opinion. At least not as much of one as the other two.

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*ahem*

RTFT.

I am always for a D1 VI lynch. I think it removes anti-town players from the game before they can do any real harm, keeping distractions to a minimum in later days, and not having her around in LYLO / near-LYLO is definitely ideal, especially since MoI's claim requires us to lynch / vig him sometime around then anyway.

In that post, 'her' referenced BS, but you can change that to mean 'they' (in reference to BS and SD) now.

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It's a strong belief of mine that lynching anti-town players / VIs on D1 (and, depending on gamesize, maybe D2) is good for town, more or less every time.

[quadz08]

if we're sure we're gonna hit scum, then yes. Otherwise, no.

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Check previous games. It's a belief of mine, and it's not indicative of alignment. Nice OMGUS, btw.

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*sigh* this is a discussion for another place and time. Why does that belief make me scummy?

[quadz08]

Do you really think I can be characterized as laying low and not scumhunting?

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@quadz Thoughts on Diddin's 405?

Mostly unremarkable. not the brainiest thing to say, as SD is still confirmed not-mafia, and is therefore highly unlikely to have a buddy. It could be read as an attempt to push suspicion on someone, but I think it was just an oversight on diddin's part more than anything. diddin is reading similarly (to me) as I remember him reading in Cyclic Experimentation x01, and he flipped town that time around. I don't recall having ever played with scum-diddin, though.

Can you show us some meta of where else you do this? Because right now it just looks like you're looking for an excuse not to take a stance on SD's alignment.

Yes. I'll be back with that in a bit. Gotta search my past games woooooo.

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quadz' Patented "Lynch-VIs-First" meta:

Cyclic Experimentation x01:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2711492
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p2712346

Huh. Going through my ISOs, this looks like the only game I've actually expressed that in. :/ Frustrating. In any case, I was town that game.

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I fully expected Chess to be a VI, actually, but he's rather surprised me. While he's had his trollesque moments, he's generally been helpful / intelligent.

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"Hi, I'm diddin, and I've been tunneling Chess all game even though he's actually been useful and playing decently."

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"Hi, I'm diddin, and I've been tunneling Chess all game even though he's actually been useful and playing decently."

Yeah, if SD hadn't claimed scum when he was whining at the mods I'd totes be voting for diddin.

Gandy, I'm pretty sure we went through this once before. SD didn't claim scum.

[quadz08]

No, it's basically complaining about a mod error that appears to confirm him as not town.

[quadz08]

Examples of how i'm scummy or gtfo kthx?

I don't think you're scummy anymore, but I already talked about the rolefishing. The tunneling on Chronopie was pretty bad too.

"Hi, I'm diddin, and I've been tunneling Chess all game even though he's actually been useful and playing decently."

For Christ's sake. I THINK CHESS IS TOWN. My feelings about his playstyle do not affect my read of him at all, especially in a game like this where he is surprisingly readable.

You hadn't expressed your change in feelings until now. (But you

were

tunneling him. Just fyi.)

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Hey guys. I have a very, very busy week ahead of me. I should be able to find to do some ISOs and respond to the questions posed of me, but in case I don't, this is me letting you know.

Mod: Semi V/LA until Monday, please.

[quadz08]

Unvote. Vote: Quadz
- I don't have the post number with me but he doesn't provide any reasoning in the post where he votes SD. The quote is there; Looks like "Have to say something smart while jumping on to the biggest wagon, I'll come back to it" but never did ..
- Pattern of votes & attacks.

I found the post you're referring to. I had something typed after that quote; it said something like "The only person grasping at straws here is you." I distinctly remember feeling like that post was extraordinarily hypocritical and poor reasoning to boot. I do not know where that reasoning went, or why it didn't post with the rest of my post. :/
You'll have to explain what you mean by votes & attacks, and why it's scummy.


I agree with AGar about Mothrax's "they're both scummy could be scum together but also not together" bit. Chainlynching, anybody?


AV's catchup post was decent, though not spectacular. I'm reading null on him now. (NEEDS MOAR POSTING)


BS' posts continue to be terrible. She needs to go away, please.


SD is more or less confirmed again. Woo!


Iece's post 593 bugs the CRAP out of me. "Hi, this makes her scummy, but she could also be NOT SCUMMY. Ya know, I'm really not sure, so I'm just gonna leave all these backdoors open so I can say 'no look I thought this about BS you guys!'" Yeah. Don't like it. At all. You add in his earlier claims about her play being scummy based on meta, and this reads heavily like scum pushing the easy lynch, but still not being on the wagon when she flips town.

FoS: Iece

With SD's more-or-less confirmed status, I'm going to UNVOTE: SD.

VOTE: Baby Spice. VI + scummy = death, plz.

P-Edit: NINJA'D by MoS and Iece.

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......... fffffffffffffffffff. You're right. My apologies.

[quadz08]

You are fucking scum of some fucking type. There is no way that your posts are coming from town. I don't give a shit if there's only one kill tonight. Maybe you're a lyncher, or you have some mechanic related goal(Gollum, anybody?), but you ARE FUCKING SCUM.

- Given the fact that SD is under so much scrutiny right now, there's no way that he'd survive till the end of the game as third party
- He constantly keeps hinting that his super will confirm his town status in some way so lets see how that pans out
- You've made your point - By harping more on SD (a lynch which is not going to happen on D1), all you're doing is distracting us from figuring out who we need to lynch now ..

QFT. Seriously. Shut up, Gandalf.

Also, what ooba said (again) about BS' claim. I want to hear her normal power.

[quadz08]

I don't see how that's going to help.

BS is obv town can we like not force a whole bunch of claims today kthx?

No.

I think BS looks pretty good unless the fakeclaims in this game come in the form of "full" PM fakeclaims. That, or BS is a clever enough scum that I'd be willing to let her live a few days on principle.

Fuck no.

I am just curious: What does Charon supposedly forgeting a line your role PM have to do with my reaction on his rule change and my reaction to it leading you to the conclusion I was not town?

Surprisingly, yes.

[quadz08]

Hider doesn't fit with Iris terribly well, but the rainbow does, and I don't feel like BS is the type to come up with that all on her lonesome.

In Might of Mordor, Andy provided the scum with fakeclaims with powers, but I don't know if he provided flavor.

[quadz08]

Also, I believe that BS is at L-2 again.

[quadz08]

Yeah, but I don't think she would have thought to bother telling us about the color.

[quadz08]

Oh wooops. I totally missed that Gandalf said Andy provided flavor with fakeclaims.

And Iece, what will getting Hider flavor accomplish if it's mod-provided anyway? And most mods will write flavor for you if asked in any case.

[quadz08]

Yeah, but I don't think she would have thought to bother telling us about the color.

Okay, the last claim, it was the FIRST THING ASKED. She's the goddess of rainbows. I don't see why she WOULDNT claim something THAT insignificant.

Ummm... because it is, as you say, insignificant.

[quadz08]

I apparently showed up late to the party, seeing as how like 3 people have already answered all the questions that have been presented recently. So, I agree with them.

Also, AV's 677 is a good post. Slight townread on him after he's returned to posting.

[quadz08]

Mod: Not sure how long it's been, but can we get a votecount please?

Incoming.

Axelrod: For an example of scum getting a full fakeclaim (flavor, abilities, everything) and then proceeding to use a different ability than what the mod gave them, see Might of Mordor. Both Spyrex and MasterSpy did it. (That was an Andy-mod too, btw.)

I don't think BS' claim clears her. The thing about not dying when she visits scum makes her a) not able to clear anyone, and b) UN-NIGHTKILLABLE unless you target her target. This variety of hider is exactly what a scum-member would want town to believe they are, especially one who is vigbait like BS.

[quadz08]

See, this is tough. Iecerint is scummy as hell, but AV's misrep on Iece is scummy as all hell too.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Iece

Know that I'm down for a lynch on either one.

[quadz08]

I do not understand the point you're attempting to make

[quadz08]

I wonder if Persephone's death has anything to do with the Hellfire?
Cause she was the Queen of the Underworld, and wife of Hades.
additionally, Castrated is an odd kill flavor; SK, perhaps? And Snow_Bunny seems likely to be the scumkill due to her death flavor.
Hellfire means that we need to be particularly careful with our votes today. With 16 alive, it's 9 - 2 = 7 to lynch today.

[quadz08]

Dear Iece: Read my posts plz.

Also, ISOs / stuff like that to come laterish.

[quadz08]

Iece: WTF WHY WOULD YOU ASK THAT

P-Edit: don't listen to him, AGM.

[quadz08]

I do not see what nameclaiming will accomplish here.

[quadz08]

I would bet money that Ecstasy gives BS results, actually. It's Dionysus, come on. God of Wine and Debauchery and Getting Drunk and Making Bad Decisions. (Additionally, JC doesn't fit any of the kill flavors above. Though, if JC is a legit role, Survivor would be HILARIOUS.)

However, I am now EVEN MORE TOTALLY DOWN TO

VOTE: AV

[quadz08]

..... Ummmmm, no. In retrospect, hopping on like that was unnecessary, since he is confirmed scum. I just hadn't thought that particular action through, TBQH.

UNVOTE:

[quadz08]

ok. So lemme get this straight.

Dekes made AGar a doublevoter.

Even more confusingly, Iece performed a sanity-confirmed, unblockable-by-normal-powers investigation on AV and got "Not Greek."
Making things crazier, AV claimed Athena, who has a one-shot vig superpower that doesn't work on Greeks.

Eek.

The plan is to have AV shoot someone. If the shot fails, we lynch him. If he flips scum, yay us! If he flips Athena, person he shot is confGreek (not conftown, though.)
Even if the shot is successful, we should still lynch him. Because he could just be scum with a daykill who hit the other scumteam.

Really, this means AV dies today, no matter what. I still haven't had a chance to go look over ISOs to see who I want to be my second lynch. I've been busy failing exams and such.

[quadz08]

Oh, my bad. Chronopie made AGar a doublevoter.

Meanwhile, SD says he jailkept Dekes, who says he has confirmation that he wasn't (due to the doublevoting abilities of AGar.)

This implies lying SD (which is unlikely) or SD was RBed (which is... less unlikely, I suppose).

Why would scum choose to roleblock SD? *note to self: ISO SD too.*

[quadz08]

CK: see the edited votcount. AGar's listed twice.

[quadz08]

FFFFFFf. Sorry my brain is all turned upside down. Crazy few days.

So, Dekes says he knows that he hasn't been roleblocked, but won't reveal why. K cool. I think I've got it now.

[quadz08]

Just got prodded. Sorry I haven't posted in a while; I've been busy with end-of-semester stuff. I'll be back soon, promise.

[quadz08]

Hi.

So, as stated before the shot that may or may not actually exist, AV is the lynch today durrr.

AGM's posts are reading more and more like he's faking dumbtown, IMO. I know that I had said that Ecstasy probably gives bullshit results, but AGM's play is making me question that position significantly. Enough, in fact, that he is my choice for Lynch 2.

Lynch2: AGM

Also, yes, I looked at the other wagons, and didn't find any of them to be terribly appealing. I have null or town reads on all of them.

[quadz08]

Basically, I agree with everything that has happened since my last post. *thumbsup*

I had stuff to post, but everyone has already taken what I was going to say, so this may be a fluffy post.

I think that AGM using his supposed ability before his lynch is a good idea. I also agree that it should be solely AGM's decision.

(Also, lol @ bringing presents to gandy's house for deadline. )

[quadz08]

This game clearly needs more time that I've really got to put into it, so, I apologize. I don't suppose anyone has compiled a handy dandy claim list yet of everything people have said?

Gandalf is annoying the heck out of me with his cryptic commenting and subsequent rude shouting at people to "drop it" when anyone asks him anything. If you don't want people to ask you about it, then don't say it. There are few things more useless than when you go "I know x, y, and z but I'm not telling you what they are or how I know and I'm going to tell you to stfu if you ask me." In as much as we've got a gimmie lynch on AM and he's said he tell us what he's talking about tomorrow I might just be inclined to let it go, but man, he's irritating.

Agreed.

AGM is also really hostile this game and the Doc claim seems somewhat coincidental, given that AV also claimed Doc. His reactiob to AV's claim seems appropriate, however. It also seems a little questionable that scum #2, seeing his scumbuddy #1 burned and false-claiming Doc, would subsequently also false-claim Doc at the very same time. Despite the "cop" result, I'd rather leave him alive and get another cop result first to try to see whether Ice's non-super is reliable.

In case you haven't noticed, the cop result on AGM gave us a 3rd party result. They aren't scumbuddies.

However, if AGM is third-party, I'm betting there's not actually a doctor, because we've already had 2 doc claims, and no CC to either one. This means that leaving AGM-scum alive = dead Iece-cop.

I think Quadz is actually looking like a much better #2 lynch. Just glancing at his stuff from the past week or so and there isn't much there. He also does a fairly big flip on AGM, going from "I'd bet money that's a fake result" to "now I think he's the best #2 lynch" in the span of about 4 days. The way he said, as if pre-emptively defending himself from just this accusation, "and yes I looked at all the other wagons and didn't like any of them" didn't some off as actually sincere. And his very last post of "bsasically I agree with everything that's happening" makes me even less inclined to want to lynch AGM today.

I hope to be able to put some more time into this soon.

There are 17 PAGES between my earlier statement of AGM's towniness. AGM has made 26 posts in that timeframe. That's clearly not enough to change a read on someone, right? And I'm sorry that I didn't get to the thread in enough time to post before other people did. My bad.
Nice try on the misrep, though.

Ooba, what are you hoping to accomplish with that question?

[quadz08]

Ooba: how/why would someone in the team have pointed that out? Due to Ranger's not-posting, AGM wouldn't have needed to think much about fakeclaims; the only reason we started looking at him was because of Iece's result. The chances of scum coming up with a detailed enough fakeclaim to include night action targets is slim, IMO. Additionally, Iece's result calls him 3rd party, keep in mind, so it's very likely that he doesn't have a team anyway.

Also, if you'd like to point out where I said I "always wanted AV lynched," that'd be superb. The only possibility I saw when I looked back to check was "I AM EVEN MORE DOWN TO (votes AV)." This does not imply that I've 'always wanted him lynched,' merely that I did before / while reading Iece's result and the ensuing conversation.

[quadz08]

Oh, come on. Jesus Christ isn't a solo role my ass.

[quadz08]

You somehow don’t think Iec is a target regardless of whether AGM dies today?

And leaving AGM-Town alive means Iec lives to fight for at least 1 more day. Who knows, perhaps he will be able to do something useful down the line that doesn’t involve his regular Power.

I also agree with the assessment that Quadz calling AGM 3rd Party and not scum is suspect.

What I'm saying is that if AGM isn't lynched, and is actually a doctor, he

should

be protecting Iece, the claimed cop. If AGM is SCUM and is lynched, it's not improbable that there's a doctor. Except that thinking about that again, that logic is completely wrong. :/ Nevermiiiiind...

Also, as to the JC = 3rd party thing, I suppose that yes, the scumteam could be a cocktail of random other deities. I just assumed it would be a group from the same mythos, so when I saw JC (who doesn't really have other Gods to hang out with) my brain immediately yelled "3RD PARTY" at me.

Agar's 1290 is bad. Like, really, really bad. It's what AGM pointed out in his 1293, plus it's a symptom of something I've noticed AGar doing for a while now: buddying the shit out of me. Reading back on how I called JC as 3rd party, his reaction makes no sense. It's legitimately unintelligent, and AGar is an intelligent person. Read through his ISO; he's been buddying me for most of the game (I think it actually started during confirmation). It's almost like he knows I'm gonna flip town... just keep that in mind if I'm lynched today.

SD needs to claim whatever info he got. If he knows AGM is town, then be out with it.

Basically translates into "I believe AGM's doc claim but let's lynch him anway." Coincidence that you're the second biggest wagon?

No... that says "I think we should lynch him, but IF WE'RE WRONG THIS IS WHAT TOWN-AGM SHOULD DO." Nice misrep, though.

P-Edit: I agree with SD on mothrax.

[quadz08]

My powers are relatively useless, IMO; I'm willing to claim, as I don't think it will give scum much information outside of my name. AGar's hesitation gives me pause, though; I typically trust his judgement on stuff like this.

Anyone who isn't Ooba want a claim from me?

[quadz08]

AGar's play is not nearly as sharp as it typically is in this game. That, plus the aforementioned buddying of me is giving me scummy vibes on him

But anywho. One claim, coming right up.

I am

Demeter, Greek Goddess of Seasons and the Harvest.

I have no passive.

My normal power, Seasonal Disorder, allows me to choose a Season for the Next Day: Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter, or Hellfire. I could only use Hellfire once. I was not told what any of them do beforehand.

My superpower, Evergolden, allows me to treestump myself, by either PMing the mod or posting a specific phrase in-thread. This makes me mod-confirmed town, voteless,and actionless.

I used Hellfire last night (obviously). I figured it would either be really good or really bad, and either way, I'd want it done early in the game. This is also why I speculated that Plum (Persephone) was killed due to Hellfire: Persephone is Demeter's daughter, and Demeter isn't real happy that Persephone has to hang out in the underworld with Hades most of the year.

Crumbs:
Post 786 (I Cause Hellfire are the capitalized words down the left)
Post 948 (DEMETER are the capitalized first letters down the left)

[quadz08]

SD, please read again. Both of your questions are answered in my claim.

[quadz08]

If you thought it could be REALLY BAD, then why would you use it AT ALL? Especially when you had FOUR OTHER OPTIONS.

It was 50/50 good/bad. I was not gonna let something that could have been really good pass me by. And I used it early specifically because I wanted to give us time to recover if it WAS bad.

Give flavor on your normal.

The only flavor was the name, "Seasonal Disorder." I am, however, the Goddess of the

Seasons

.

OK, my bad.
So you basically claim useless random role that confirmably caused a town death for the gain of a double lynch...

Also hellfire is a strange flavour for a greek goddess... The greek underworld is the hades. "Hell" strongly suggests a christian reference.

Maybe you should just treestump yourself...

First, Plum's death being caused by my normal is far from confirmable. That's pure speculation on my part.
Second, 'hell' is not solely a Christian reference... it's the most common English term for the underworld of any religion. (except for possibly 'underworld' or 'afterlife' I suppose.)
Third, I don't think stumping myself is productive. While it prevents a mislynch, it makes me a huge problem lategame. I can't be alive during lylo, as it would cause town to lose (I'd have no vote, but would still count towards the lynch threshold, I believe. This means that in lylo, scum just has to never vote for one of their own, thereby forcing a no-lynch or town-lynch, and then kill the next night, winning the game.)

It's also a really shitty town power in general, like someone just said. Super = Tree stump? Boring. Trade one town for double lynch (of which two of them could possibly be town)? Terrible. Not to mention, he doesn't know what it does, so if he had accidentally used it near the lategame, scum would have just waltzed in and quickhammered everyone.

First, explain how I would 'accidentally' type up a PM that says "Imma use hellfire." Second, there's a reason I used it on N1.

LC: My role PM specifically states that I do not know what any of the seasons do.

Dekes: There was no season on D1. I asked Andy what would happen if I A) did not submit an action, B) was roleblocked, or C) was killed. He told me that if anything were to happen that prevented me from submitting an action (there not being a N0 being one of those things), there would simply be no season.

P-Edit: Gemini, I had the same thought about the Hellfire vs. Seasons thing when I got my role PM. The Demeter-Persephone-Hades connection was the only way that made sense in my head, hence my speculation on Plum's death. I agree that the flavor doesn't really match that well, though.

P-Edit 2.0: MoI, I honestly don't see the benefit to stumping myself other than avoiding my lynch; it merely forces us to waste a vig-shot, or else pushes lylo forward a day. Honestly, my mislynch is not worth the consequences of stumping myself, IMO.

[quadz08]

I'll check with Andy. My only experience with a stump works the way I described.

[quadz08]

Charon has informed me that if I stump myself, it DOES affect the lynch threshold. For example:

6 players alive, including stump-me. 5 votes to go around. It would be 3 to lynch in that case, not 4.

With that knowledge:

The leaves change with the seasons, but I, Demeter, am Evergolden.

[quadz08]

SD (and anyone else talking about it) can shut up about the bastard/not-bastard-ness of my role. It DOESN'T MATTER.

We are not helping matters by constantly pulling claims.

I agree.

Also, quadz - now that you are a treestump, can you give us a full list of reads?

Yes. Gimme a bit to compile it.

@chess' LC vote: you're a dumbshit. That is all.

Jeebus, the pages since I stumped myself have been completely full of USELESS.

List o' reads will come soon.

[quadz08]

I'm in favor of a mothrax lynch at this point over an Axel lynch. I don't really see a case on Axel anywhere (if I've missed it, link me / quote it?) and his ISO is significantly townier than Mothrax's sad excuse for 24 posts. Mothrax lurking under the pressure is making things even worse for him, too.

2. Chronopie - null
3. AurorousVox - scumduh
4. AGar - likely town
5. Shadow Dancer - likely town
7. Iecerint - likely town
8. ooba - townish
9. Dekes - mildly scummish
11. Gemini (mockingjaye + Katy hydra) - townish
12. AlmasterGM - scummy
13. MagnaofIllusion - townish
14. Axelrod - nullish
15. gandalf5166 - townish
17. mothrax - scummy
18. LordChronos - scummish
20. chesskid3 - townish

TBH, I'm not sure why the AGM wagon didn't build back up after I stumped myself. He was the pretty clear next candidate, and while I'm totally good with a mothrax lynch, AGM is at least as scummy as moth is. I whole-heartedly endorse an AGM lynch today.

[quadz08]

What now? You claim MoI's point against you to be invalid by saying you said the same thing about him in another game where it would've actually been valid because he was indeed scum there?

Yeah, that's a bona fide scumslip if I ever saw one.

Care to explain?

Also, I like Axel's case on LC. Mothrax is still a better lynch than LC, but Axelrod almost certainly isn't the lynch today.

[quadz08]

... I'm pretty sure Gandalf's super from yesterday is why he doesn't have a vote today...

[quadz08]

You're the lynch today.

Take that as you will.

If you're town (which you're not) you should do a re-read and give us your thoughts so we have them to look back on.

[quadz08]

Hi town. Your friendly treestump here.

I approve of these lynch choices.

Kill 'em dead. End day. (After ConSpiracy confirms he's "submitted" his "action.")

[quadz08]

I apologize if I'm missing something, but from what I can tell, nothing night-action-wise actually points to LC-scum.

Gandalf redirected LC to Axel, who died.
However, Chesskid claims to have RBed LC anyway, so that means that LC isn't the killer.
Iece got a result of "Shiva, the Destroyer" on LC. However, Iece's results are questionable at best.

Am I missing anything?

[quadz08]

... I have been so bad at this in this game for some reason.

K. Iece's result was on Chronopie, who is a confirmed DV-giver. It's possible that's a Shiva power (multiple limbs and all that), but... it seems unlikely, based on who's been receiving the DVs.

My point yet stands about LC, it's just slightly weakened. The first two points were the important ones anyway.

[quadz08]

Gandalf, the Egyptian pantheon is just as extensive, and nearly as well known, as the Greek one. I'd say it's better known than the Norse, anyway.

The wording (Aligned with the X Pantheon) seems to imply X can take more than two values since otherwise Town\Mafia\SK would have been easier. Also pantheon by definition is a group, meaning 3/3 is more likely than 4/1 - since a single guy cannot be a pantheon ..

... Town is a pantheon (Greek). At least one scumgroup is a pantheon (Egypt). I think your logic is... incorrect. And what makes you so sure that an as-yet-unflipped SK would even have "pantheon" in his rolename?

No cute spell as with Quadz?

Hey, my spell was cool, alright?

Also, SD, I don't recall this. Did you super catch Ooba using his super? Because he claimed to have used it yesterday, when your Super was still on, I think.

[quadz08]

Hi team.

Sorry I suck and haven't posted in a really long time. :/ I appear to be suffering from confirmed-townitis, as well as a permanent condition of busylifeitis.

Anywho, I've read through the whole thingamajig. Today's lynch is pretty obviously stuck between gandy and LC. Based off of errors / slips / etc., Gandalf seems to be the choice for the lynch today. However, I plan to find the time to ISO both of them, etc.

Also, I appreciate Chrono's question about finding me a vote. The gesture is much appreciated. Good shot on Dekes as well.

I'm also beginning to lean towards a 5+1 setup as opposed to 3+3, but we'll judge that based on finding another scumflip (or not finding one; whatever). That spec is moooooostly useless.

[quadz08]

The ooba wagon is decent. Solid reasoning behind it, typically, but I'm pretty null on him, personally.

Gandalf is definitely the place to be still. ALL OF THE SCUMZ BELONG TO gandalf.

Please vote for him.

[quadz08]

very good you got the reference we are so proud

[quadz08]

I find MoI-SK highly unlikely, personally. That read was pretty odd, ooba.

Also, gandalf is the lynch today, I say again. Nothing more to add than what's already been presented.

[quadz08]

@Quadz,I never said we should lynch a SK probable over Gandalf today.

I... never said you did?

I doubt that ooba is scum, and the whole "DID NOT CC / REACT TO BS" is, well, pretty bs. He inferred that town would likely have QT(s), and BS' claim implied the ability to create them. Not odd that he didn't CC it.

[quadz08]

SD: From what I can tell, Ooba thought BS was likely someone who created QT's.
Ooba gives all QT's the ability to daytalk.
This means that BS could create a QT with night and daytalk. As soon as Ooba dies, though, that QT (along with all other QTs in the game) loses the ability to daytalk, and any QTs that would be created afterwards would have only nighttalk.

Ooba, is that accurate?
SD, does that make sense? (If it doesn't, I don't know what to tell you.)

However... this does bring up another question. After BS died, Ooba really should have claimed his passive, seeing as how there was no reason to believe there'd be other town-aligned QTs (which, thus far, I believe is the case, correct?). This means Ooba has been knowingly granting scum daytalk on Days 2 and 3 (jeebus this game is only on D3) with no perceivable benefit to town.

[quadz08]

@ooba & SD: I forgot that BS didn't end up having that power. neeevermiiiiiiind

[quadz08]

I like the gemini case on AGM, I think. He was scummy then, and he hasn't been any townier now. If anything, it's seemed like he's been pretty intentionally under the radar today.

[quadz08]

Welp...

I have no idea what to do with that fakeclaim, tbqh. I suspect at least chunks of truth in it, and I wouldn't put it past Andy to include a role with that wincon, but Hades as 3rd party is far from unrealistic...

[quadz08]

I am inclined to believe Gemini's claim, personally.

We should still be lynching Gandalf today. Just saying.

[quadz08]

Chess, listen to ooba.

[quadz08]

bahahaha. SUDDENLY, AZTECS

[quadz08]

nope, that's definitely commenting.

questions to come later. only claims now.

[quadz08]

MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[quadz08]

NACHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[quadz08]

SD:

Why Gemini? Just wondering. It seems to have worked well, but I'm not sure why you chose them in the first place.

[quadz08]

SD were you able to see them use their super?

(I don't remember if your ability had run out / if it runs out.)

[quadz08]

I think we should lynch Gem. Confirmed SK who isn't guaranteed to kill? Not worth our time to keep around. Plus, anti-town w/ double vote = bad news.

killkillkill.

[quadz08]

@Mod: Assuming that Gemini's role does exist, would such a role winning in endgame prevent town from winning at the same time?

[quadz08]

Yeah ok she dies. Can't risk it.

[quadz08]

Gem, I

can

be killed. It's simply that killing me is useless, since I have no vote and don't count towards the lynch threshold; they'd just be killing my voice, since everything else is already dead.

[quadz08]

It works on town, Iece.

If he hits scum, he gets the bullet back.

[quadz08]

Ok, why is Iece targetting SD again? IF it's to 'confirm his paranoia' or something, have him target ME, the mod-confirmed Town Demeter.

Also, yes, ooba, your insistence on pushing the block away from Chess is SCUMMY AS HELL if he flips scum.

[quadz08]

Ahhhh ok I forgot about that. Gotcha.

[quadz08]

chess, how exactly does roleblocking nacho confirm you?

I agree with MoI.

[quadz08]

Let's lynch chess and shoot Gem instead.

[quadz08]

fuck it, confirmed SK will be here tomorrow / is viggable. I say we lynch chess. If he flips town, Nacho dies.

[quadz08]

*sigh* I know, MoI. I know.

lynch the SK. Kill the chesskid.

P-Edit: Nacho... we can do that without the SK alive...

[quadz08]

chess why does saving yourself matter so much?

[quadz08]

Plan looks good to the lonely stump.

[quadz08]

IT IS TIME TO CLAIM ACTIONS WOOOOOO

[quadz08]

MoI, why only D1 votecounts?

[quadz08]

Ah. Makes sense.

[quadz08]

I think that Iec gets random results, and we're wasting our time trying to analyze it otherwise.

[quadz08]

Chess should be the lynch today, methinks. We can block Nacho tonight.

[quadz08]

I agree with the blocking of Nacho after the lynching of Chesskid. SD makes solid points.

[quadz08]

THERE ARE TOTALLY EIGHT OF US YOU JERK.

[quadz08]

Wheeeee.

I <3 sloooow daaaaays.

CLAIMS PLZ

[quadz08]

I think Nacho needs to claim first. If he expresses resistance to claiming, well, then, he's definitely scum and we lynch the shit out of him. Wheeeeeeeeee.

[quadz08]

..... what.

You no actioned? Bull shit.

[quadz08]

I agree with MoI. Claims plz.

[quadz08]

Ah. Right.

Can we mix up the order at all?

[quadz08]

Is there a reason it seems that we're treating Ooba as conf-town?

[quadz08]

I think you need to be the lynch today, MoI. It is, very simply, the safer option.

[quadz08]

I agree with the LC lynch.

[quadz08]

WOOOOO I MAKE GOOD NIGHT ACTION CHOICES.

Also, I knew the Hellfire power would do SOMETHING to Persephone haha. I am totally bummed that I never got to use any of my other pretty-badass powers; I had a really sweet that I didn't get to use very much.

I did make 2 scumdeaths in one day happen though, sort of. So, that's pretty cool.