Speed Mafia (Game Over, who won?)

[Juls]

First!

Vote: Spyrex

(missed you!)

[Juls]

Almaster, did you vote wing because he is an easy target and you thought Spy was about to start pursuing him?
Do you find him suspicious or are you still randoming?

[Juls]

Recknor, did you just call me a bitch?!?!?!??!?!?!?

(not serious)

@Alamaster, you have sufficiently satisfied me with your answer. For now.

[Juls]

Unvote, Vote: Katsuki

for avoiding answering the question directly.

[Juls]

Unvote, Vote: Katsuki

for avoiding answering the question directly.

OH MY GOD JULS
you're townier than town

VOTE: KATSUKI

If only I had two votes. That buddying.

[Juls]

Man I am on a roll! Barely into page 2 and I am bitchin and a bitch! Sweet!

[Juls]

more votes on Katsuki please

[Juls]

@Reck,
1) have you ever caught scum with that question.
2) have you ever caught scum on page 2

[Juls]

@Kat, I *think* so. I definately know the name. I took a year and a half break and am just recently back. Were you in communique reck?

Preview Edit: kanye!!! how dare you. If only I had 3 votes.

[Juls]

Wow, do you hate me because I caught you or because you are not town?

Are you asking if I am gay? Are you hitting on me?

[Juls]

Seriously, I could have backed off the not answering the question directly. But the fact that you haven't even defended kinda really makes me think you are scum. For serious.

Seriously.

[Juls]

I voted because Spy goes CONTENT and wing goes TEE HEE HEE LOOK AT ME IMMA JOKER.

Content? In RVS?

And now we are on page 3. Nothing to comment on?

[Juls]

It doesn't seem to be a town reaction.

[Juls]

@Crimping, you are a hydra correct?

[Juls]

I've never played with a hydra. (Maybe played with Plum and Pom once). Do we typically know who is posting?

Preview edit: oh I see DGB sig now.

[Juls]

I like how you're joking about being scum when we're all 100% serious.

This.

[Juls]

The question was intentionally loaded to see how he handled his answer. Same with the question to kat about why she hated me.

[Juls]

@Kat, I also don't like how you are saying you are "bussing" because only scum bus. I don't know if you are trying to be funny. I don't see it as a slip. I see it as someone caught that is doing their damndest to make Almaster either (a) not look like scum after you are dead or (b) look like scum after you are dead. (It's like pre WIFOM )

[Juls]

She OMGUS me and sheep me all in one post.

[Juls]

You are saying I am scummy yet sheeping my suspicion toward Almaster for voting wing after spy suggested he isn't "awesome" enough.

[Juls]

See my loaded question to Almaster.

[Juls]

FTR I was satisfied with his answer. How do YOU feel about his answer to my question.

[Juls]

Post 21, my iso 2

[Juls]

Um, post 23

ITT I read for Katsuki

[Juls]

I am going to bed now. If I have time, I will post in the morning. This will be my availability schedule for the remainder of the game (all times central):

Weekdays

Mornings (7a.m.-7:30a.m.)
Evenings (6p.m.-10:00p.m.)

Weekends

Often

Exceptions

May 12 and 19 - likely not available until 7:30p.m. (daughter's dance class)
May 20 - unavailable (daughter's dress rehearsal and Pre-K graduation)
May 21 - spotty (daughter's recital)
Mondays beginning June 13 - likely not available until 7:30p.m. (new dance class schedule)

All I know for now, will make aware if there are any other changes [way too much information, sorry]

[Juls]

@evilpacman - I am not understanding this "case" you have on me and DGB/Camn. In your "scenario" I assume I am the trusted town player since I have been called town a few times. So therefore you are claiming that I have said or implied that DGB/camn are town. The only thing I have said about DGB/camn is asking if they are a hydra. DGB called me town. But so did Spyrex and Reck. Why are you tunneling on DGB/camn? I don't think your "case" is scummy quite yet but it makes zero sense. In fact, I counter that DGB very well may be scum because the only game I have played with DGB in the past, she did something similar. She was scum, she called populartajo and a few others "obvtown" very early on (he was) and targeted me relentlessly because I was half-assing the game and was thus an easy target. Now, this is all circumstantial because I have not played with DGB town and would need to research it a bit more. Game in reference: http://www.mafiascum.net/archive/viewtopic.php?t=10894

@Haylen - my timezone is central, my schedule is posted somewhere (read my iso).

[Juls]

Jules and Our obv-townieness.

No scum says this. Hence my town read.

But I just referenced a game where she did EXACTLY that. I am not saying she is scum but aren't you just doing what you said that she was doing with me? You are calling her obv-town. I don't get you at all. But I will drop it I guess since it isn't a "case".

Ah man. IDK. Should I vote Katsuki, even though the only reason I think Kats might be scum is because of what other players who's alignments I don't know have said? (Though Kats's lynch could help form reads, I'm not sure.)
...
I'll still post and question and defend as necessary, of course.

wow this is perhaps the scummiest thing I have read all game and almost makes me think Kat is town.
Scenario 1: Kat is town - Holy crap is that some scum waffling about pushing a wagon that scum knows is gonna be a mislynch
Scenario 2: Kat is scum - Then maybe not so scummy :/

Part 2 is also way over the top trying to look town. Seriously, if Kat dies and flips town, I am coming after you.
=======

I don't like the argument about Amrun posting after Spy questioned where she was. All her responses to the line of questioning seem townie.

i dislike when people post when they are going to post, but posting is overall ok.

I guess I could see if I posted that I wasn't going to be on a lot but my schedule shows I might not be able to post for 1 day. It is speed mafia and I had hoped others would follow suit so I could hold them accountable for lurking (as I expect you all to do to me if I lurk).


[Through 250: I see Kat is at L-1 and want this post to post before night. I will finish this page and post more if necessary in case of a hammer]

[Juls]

Only other thing I see of note in the last page is

If katsuki flips scum, I am going to feel so stupid.

Cobbler is COMPLETELY blowing my read on Kat.

All the cool kids are doing list so here is mine

Town

Juls
SpyreX
Amrun
populartajo

Townier than the majority

Benmage
CrimpingNoofball

Unknown

xRECKONERx
Haylen
evilpacman18
Lowell
The Mask
Magister Ludi
Sathoris

Scummier than the majority

AlmasterGM - too much weirdness surrounding him. Vibe more than evidence at this point.
kanyeknowsbest - why anyone has him in their town column after 3 posts of nothing in 12 pages is beyond me.
WingDamage9001 - see kanye

Scum

Katsuki - either or with Kat
Cobblerfone - either or with Kat

[Juls]

In fact, I can't take it...

Unvote, Vote Cobbler

Let me be clear. I think there is A LOT to be learned from a Kat lynch and I still have yet to see anything protown about her. I very well may switch back.

[Juls]

I think they are both scummy but not scum together. I am not derailing the Kat lynch. I am at a point where I think Cobbler is more scummy than Kat. My scum read on Cobbler is because he is posting "scummy". My scum read on Kat is she is posting "not townie and not scum hunting".

[Juls]

My post is stuck... pressed submit, page still loading.

Give it a bit. :/

What?

[Juls]

@AGM, you are the only one I have had a "weird read" on. And you failed to highlight the second part that it is more vibe than evidence. Primarily it's your interactions with Spyrex which comes off as buddying and the whole "Kat bussing" thing is not sitting well with me.

Not trying to be sneaky about anything either. I will concede my vote switch post may have been unclear but it wasn't sneaky.

[Juls]

requesting to be replaced. sorry everyone.

You're replacing as you are confirming in another game? Wow, that's not scummy at all.

FOS: the wing replacement

cobbler. Not seeing the case on him at all. The whole "OMG wrong cat avatar" thing with amrun seemed pretty genuine to me, as have his posts since. The wagon on him seems like a lazy diversion.

My points on cobbler have nothing to do with his avatar mistake. Here are some quotes:

Ah man. IDK. Should I vote Katsuki, even though the only reason I think Kats might be scum is because of what other players who's alignments I don't know have said? (Though Kats's lynch could help form reads, I'm not sure.) Or should I start with the accusations? Even though I have no idea how my D-1 scum-reads might fare?

Oh man, I don't know. Should I jump on this wagon. Let me look like I am unsure about it so I look townie.

Ya know, I think I'm gonna keep with a third option and not vote until something interesting pops up.

I'll still post and question and defend as necessary, of course.

Trying too hard to appear thoughtful and careful.

If katsuki flips scum, I am going to feel so stupid.

This was the kicker for me. He has set this little series of posts up to either a) Hammer Katsuki after long reflection, or b) Say "see, I wasn't on her wagon, I was thoughtful and careful!" Either way it gives me scum vibes from him. Katsuki in isolation looks bad, I agree 200%. But Katsuki mixed with this guy makes me think he is scum who knows what her flip will be.

[Juls]

Personally I would replace Pacman with Sathoris or Alamaster. Pacman gets town points for asking what "scum motivations" would someone have on one of Amrun's arguments.

Also who is Juls and why am I voting him?

Her.

I will post a list before every night of who I'm choosing from.

A lynch could happen at any time. Get to it!

Unvote, Vote: Cobbler

You are hopping on the second largest wagon. You have yet to say WHY YOU think Cobbler is scummy. You have only parrotted others.

Mod: Can hiders be roleblocked?

Wait hold on.
WD replacing out makes him more scummy?

He is scummy but there are others that are scummy where we learn MUCH more from their lynch.

Stay focused, guys. We're having Kats or Cobbler pie today.

This! I feel we learn the other's alignment from the flop. IT MUST BE ONE OF THESE 2.

Amrun would know Cobble is town and that a hammer would look bad so she's already setting herself up to be absolved.

I made this exact case against Cobble. What do you feel about his doing the same thing?

I will only vote between Amrun & Katsuki for the remainder of D1. One of them are dying. I choose Amrun over Cobble because an Amrun flip gives more info on Cobble, especially an Amrun-scum flip.

Cobble gives us information on all 3 of these people.

But I do believe Amrun to be town at this point.

I can read momentum, okay. My lynch is likely to go through and I know that. Either way, I want the opportunity to post my cases. Working on a re-read now.

Really? What makes you think this wagon will succeed?

I also don't like the Cobbler vote without reasons givin

He gave reasons.

The only thing I have to really ask her is why she has a townie read on Benmage? Because I'm not seeing anything pro-town coming from him at all.

Primarily his aggressiveness and definitive reads. No waffling, he is saying what he feels. I have learned that there are different play styles and I think his is short and to the point. It works for him. It's not my style but it's giving me town vibes.

Scum

Katsuki - either or with Kat

Wuh?

Cut and paste error.

Also, random thought to get out there, not sure if this is true yet - I have a sneaking suspicion if Katsuki and Amrun are both scum, that Cobbler is town and Juls is scum. She has consistently tried to sneak the wagon away from those two onto Cobbler without any REAL reason for doing so, so I'm pretty skeptical of her motives at this point.

Is it that you don't like my reasons or claiming I don't have any. I have posted them as clearly as I possibly can. I can't help but notice the hate from you started almost immediately after I listed you in my leaning scum column.

@Spy - I love you but you seem to be leading everyone on a wild goose chase. You have FoS'd 3 quarters of the players and keep saying "so-and-so would be a fine lynch". We should all focus and agree on Cobbler or Katsuki in my opinion.

[Juls]

Ack...part of my post got cut off (fail cut and paste). Insert this above the previous post.

==========

If behind town, you live, and hard-confirm a townie.

This assumes Kat is town and not fakeclaiming scum. She isn't confirmed until she is dead. For me, she also becomes town if Cobbler is scum.

Yeah, but read the questionnaire he filled out and compare it to the possible mafia roles here. He made an unwise decision by leaving, but that slot is town.

Unless he was posting that for our benefit.

If Kat doesn't get rope hide behind one of:
WD
Pacman
Cobbler

[Juls]

The early play from Reck and espeically juls seem intent on catching anyone turning the slighest post into something big.

I won't apologize for scum-hunting quickly in a SPEED game.

Also, if you expect me (or anyone) to be able to respond to you then you are going to need to address people by name or better organize your thoughts. I think you are talking to me in the post above then click the link and its something Reck posted. I can't follow it.

[Juls]

I admit, 3/4 is an exageration (Cobble, Amrun, Kat, WD, Pacman with mild on Mask, are the ones I see, is this accurate?). But you are fosing several and it feels like you see a shiny penny and forget about the quarter sitting right in front of you. I would like to see more focus because we don't have time to jump all over the place. It wasn't an accusation but a request.

[Juls]

Pacman, your thoughts on cobble?

[Juls]

So shall I assume those are the 3 you have the most scummy reads on?

[Juls]

What is your motivations for those 3? Should we not try to make the list the most scummy? So you either confirm scum or drive scum away from the towniest players as their night choice?

[Juls]

That was my understanding of what Crimp was suggesting here:

Now, about Katsuki's choices. If Kats hides behind scum and dies, we'll never know who the scum it. What if Kats posts a list of 3 possible night choices? Then we'd have a clue.

So shouldn't you be trying to hide behind scum?

[Juls]

I seriously do not believe Amrun is scum. Also, given her claim, I think she is a good target for Kats to hide behind. I really want to see Cobbler swinging.

[Juls]

I don't see why you think Amrun is a better lynch than Cobble or Kats even.

[Juls]

Why I think Amrun is town: Her reactions have been town.

Even if it wasn't a coincidence that she showed up after you wondered where she was, it still isn't enough to base a lynch off of when Cobble is so much more obvious.

[Juls]

I will admit that saying constantly that she is re-reading doesn't look great on Amrun but her reactions are what make me think she is town.
Reactions:
1) not arguing with cases on her (the great minutes debate)
2) conceding to her lynch but wanting to get reads in
3) admittance to skimming (I have done it before as town and got in trouble for it as well.)

One thing that is kinda bothering me though (even though I made the suggestion) is that she keeps saying that Kats should hide behind her. My head immediately goes to scum-Amrun wants Kats to hide behind her so that she will die.

Why is everyone ok with the fact that cobbler has a lot of heat on him, he doesn't defend himself at all despite posting in thread?

This is where I am at:
Kats - still doesn't come across as townish to me. Her list was strange and didn't seem to have any thought to it at all. Possibly not even a real list. She sheeps a lot and jokes a lot (not pro-town).
Cobbler - postures around the Kats lynch and has phrasing sometimes that looks like scum trying to be "too townie". Doesn't defend against cases against him. He basically confirms Kats for me as town if he is scum. No way they are together as scum.
Amrun - I see lazy town with the slight possibility of being scum. I don't want to be too stubborn about this since I have been wrong before, but I don't want this lynch. However, I won't let the day end without one, so she would be a last minute vote.

^Obviously there are other scummy people floating around but they have to wait until tomorrow. We have (expired on 2011-05-15 20:30:00) so we need to focus on these 3.

[Juls]

*facepalm* You and CNB just switched your votes and put us back to square 1.

[Juls]

I want you back on cobbler.

[Juls]

I have said what I think of Amrun ad nauseum. Look up a few posts.

[Juls]

No I don't. But I don't agree with Spyrex and Reck about Amrun either and I still see them as town. What I see is that she doesn't think Cobbler is scum and Kats isn't getting lynched today. She said she wanted to get her reads in and you are her read.

[Juls]

@Cobbler - This is the first time you have responded directly to me and I am the primary one making a case on you.

@C-Worl - Your thoughts on Cobbler and Katsuki please.

[Juls]

So your vote on Amrun, explain it a little bit because you are sheeping Spy mostly and then it appears a bit OMGUSy.

[Juls]

Your previous post which said "Amrun this looks bad" or something like that. Also, most of your posts are jokes/content-less. So while you aren't lurking, you aren't really contributing all that much.

[Juls]

So cobbler is "lol scum" but amrun is "either stupid or trying to throw mud on [you]" so you are voting her over cobbler. Is that a correct assessment?

[Juls]

@Cobbler See my iso:
26,
27, and
32

The only accusations I see you respond to is tajo and his points are not the same as mine except maybe trying to be "too townie" and not even referencing the same evidence.

[Juls]

I would just like to say EVERYONE on the cobbler wagon save Katsuki I have on my town list. I cannot say the same about the Amrun wagon.

[Juls]

Crimp is now on the Cobbler wagon (on my town list)
Tajo was on the wagon (on my town list)
If Cobbler is scum then Kats is on my scum list.

People on the Amrun wagon that is on my townlist are Reck and Spy period.

[Juls]

Also, Mask is on my town list if not obvious from the above post.

[Juls]

kanye, evil, C-Worl, Almaster ---not on my town list.

[Juls]

What's important is I have

SCUM reads on the Amrun wagon

which I don't have on the Cobbler wagon.

For clarity this is kinda where I am at. Some of the middle could be in different order.

Town

Juls
CrimpingNoofball
SpyreX
xRECKONERx
populartajo
The Mask
Amrun
evilpacman18
Benmage
Lowell
Magister Ludi
AlmasterGM
Katsuki
kanyeknowsbest
Haylen
C-Worl (replacing WingDamage9001)
Sathoris
Cobblerfone

Scum

[Juls]

Add another scum to the Amrun lynch.

[Juls]

I would be more comfortable with a Haylen lynch than an Amrun lynch but I don't know if it would gain enough steam this late.

[Juls]

Actually, who's interested in a tajo wagon?

No. Something me and Almaster agree on. Shocker!

[Juls]

Unvote, Vote Haylen

I will do it for the sake of saving Amrun (I hope she realizes how much I am sticking my neck out for her) and Haylen is high on the scumlist for me.

[Juls]

Crimping, you might want to unvote, vote to make it official.

[Juls]

My vote is staying on Benmage

Then you are basically saying you aren't voting today.

[Juls]

There is next to zero chance of a Benmage lynch today. Benmage would have to come in here and say I am scum, here is the link to my quicktopic, lynch me before this would happen. You need to vote 1) cobbler, 2) amrun, 3) katsuki, 4) yourself. You cannot POSSIBLY think all 4 of those are town.

[Juls]

[offtopic]Reck, I finally figured out how I knew you. We played a Lost mafia together once[/offtopic]

[Juls]

AW SNAP. THAT'S RIGHT. *goes to reread*

Link it when you find it. I only found the scum QT, can't find the link.

[Juls]

EBWOP: Found it, nvm.

[Juls]

Amrun or Haylen

[Juls]

Haylen did.

[Juls]

(expired on 2011-05-15 20:30:00)

[Juls]

Current vote count of 2 leading wagons:

Amrun (6) -- xRECKONERx, SpyreX, kanyeknowsbest, evilpacman18, populartajo, Sathoris
Haylen (8) -- CrimpingNoofball, Cobblerfone, AlmasterGM, Magister Ludi, Juls, Amrun, Lowell, C-Worl

[Juls]

Well goddammit.
This shit isn't going back to Katsuki is it?

moar Haylen votes please

Fixed.

[Juls]

YEA, THATS THIS AWESOME WAGON THAT ALL OF YOU WENT OHH SNAP LOOK ALL MY SCUM READS ARE ON THIS SHIT AND ITS STILL A GOOD IDEA.

Actually from Amrun up is town for me and even pacman occassionally (I go back and forth on him). So mine has 3 of my leaning scum reads and 2 of my lurker reads.

[Juls]

Ohh lord deadline isn't even tomorrow - its Monday. WOOOSH.

No, it is monday at 1:30a.m. GMT which puts it at less than 24 hours from now.

[Juls]

If I die tonight, I want Cobbler swinging. If he is town, then Kats should get it.

[Juls]

You wouldn't even give a dead towns person their last wish?

[Juls]

Nah it's not that easy. Especially since Amrun is town.

It's likely more : Cobbler/Almaster/Lurker/Lurker or Katsuki/???/Lurker/Lurker

[Juls]

Also if I am completely wrong about Amrun then I will be left alive until the end of time.

[Juls]

Just from my POV:
CNB suggested Haylen as an alternate lynch. I was unwilling to vote Amrun and Cobbler was losing steam. I said I wouldn't switch because I didn't think there was enough time to build the wagon. But next thing I know Haylen has as many votes as Amrun. Since Haylen was pretty high on my scum-o-meter I switched to a viable lynch that wasn't someone I saw as town. I would have preferred a Cobbler lynch but a Haylen lynch was better than an Amrun lynch.

[Juls]

If she is vanilla as she claims, and I dont see any reason for her to lie now then I would say:
Haylen (8) -- CrimpingNoofball, Cobblerfone, AlmasterGM, Magister Ludi, Juls, Amrun, Lowell, C-Worl

Almaster, Magister, Lowell, C-Worl seem the most opportunistic. Especially C-Worl, he doesn't scum hunt, he jumps to the biggest wagon of the moment, and the guy before him replaced out to confirm in another game.

Some of that speculation would obviously change with a lynch or two and knowing alignments.

[Juls]

I eliminate Amrun and Cobbler because regardless of alignment they are going to be on a viable lynch that isn't them. CNB seems very town to me and pacman probably wouldn't hammer for fear of a supersaint or bringing too much attention his way due to no time allowed for claiming.

[Juls]

You say all that assuming Amrun is scum and I can't get there.

[Juls]

I actually thought Haylen was dead too and that is why I began doing some analysis of it. I would not have done so if I knew she was still alive. And Haylen, if that is the hammer, its not really scummy given that we are about 12 hours from deadline.

[Juls]

Yeah, you were already hammered:
Haylen (10) -- CrimpingNoofball, Cobblerfone, AlmasterGM, Magister Ludi, Juls, Amrun, Lowell, C-Worl, xReckonerx, evilpacman

So benmage was just insult to injury.

[Juls]

Adding yourself under the townlist. Nice one.

What's wrong with that?

[Juls]

If I were a blocker I would have blocked Cobbler.
If I were a jailer I would have jailed populartajo.
If I were a hider (show some love!) I would have hid behind Benmage - no way was he getting killed.

I have a bone to pick with XReckonerX for that B.S. hypo shit. That told scum who was either Jailkeeper, or Doctor, or whatever. They knew a) who they killed so that means that they would look for the doc who protected them or b) who submitted the kill so they would look for who blocked them. That was very very bad. I haven't decided how scummy it was yet. But since we see who he jailed, I am going to go on pop being scum.

Vote: Tajo

[Juls]

We have lots of time today, can we all agree to at least have 24 hours per day? Yesterday I went to post, I got a preview edit, read it, hit submit and the thread locked.

[Juls]

I can't see Cobbler/Kats as a scum team btw. I stick by that read that they are opposite alignments.

[Juls]

Unvote, vote master ludi

Awesome.

[Juls]

@Tajo: How do you reconcile Kat scum with Cobbler scum? I just don't see it. These quotes in particular:

Should I vote Katsuki, even though the only reason I think Kats might be scum is because of what other players who's alignments I don't know have said? (Though Kats's lynch could help form reads, I'm not sure.) Or should I start with the accusations? Even though I have no idea how my D-1 scum-reads might fare?

Ya know, I think I'm gonna keep with a third option and not vote until something interesting pops up.

If katsuki flips scum, I am going to feel so stupid.

Wait! I thought of something that could mess up the plan. What if katsuki hides behind a godfather? They can choose to be immune to hiders and weak doctors.

And BTW, I simply don't see how Katsuki or I being town makes the other scum. Can't we both be town or scum?

[Juls]

Can you explain in every quote what gives you the impression Cobbler is not scum with Kats?

Should I vote Katsuki, even though the only reason I think Kats might be scum is because of what other players who's alignments I don't know have said? (Though Kats's lynch could help form reads, I'm not sure.) Or should I start with the accusations? Even though I have no idea how my D-1 scum-reads might fare?

Ya know, I think I'm gonna keep with a third option and not vote until something interesting pops up.

Why bring it up at all? This is the initial post he made that made me think he was scum over Katsuki just because he was so wishy washy about it. Scum-cobbler would use the opportunity to bus or say she is a little scummy but I think player B is more scummy and parrot some other folks reasonings.

If katsuki flips scum, I am going to feel so stupid.

Again, similar to Spyrex's "humble pie" comment. I couldn't see Spy knowing Kats was scum and saying that just as I don't see it here.

Wait! I thought of something that could mess up the plan. What if katsuki hides behind a godfather? They can choose to be immune to hiders and weak doctors.

Bringing up something no one else has brought up. Adds attention to the wagon. Why do it to a partner?

And BTW, I simply don't see how Katsuki or I being town makes the other scum. Can't we both be town or scum?

Again, why bring this point up. This is mafiascum.net where every comment you make is on the record, not wiped away. Can't see scum-Cobbler phrasing this that way.



==========
Truthfully, tajo, I didn't think you were scum most of D1 but it's hard to over look the fact that The Mask jailed you and then died. It's true, you may have been the target but I would see CNB or Spyrex as top choices for the kill as scum.

[Juls]

Top 4 people to look at tomorrow imo:

1. AGM
2. tajo
3. Sathoris
4. C-Worl

[Juls]

Have you considered that he might be stupid?

Before I knew Kats alignment I read them as opposites. I still believe that. It's all I am saying.

[Juls]

Then you may want to avoid playing games with me in the future. Half my strategy is causing scumfrustration via ad hominem

In fairness, you are playing a game with them. You replaced in.

[Juls]

My updated list

Strongly Feel they are town

8) CrimpingNoofball - most obvious
14) SpyreX - aggressive scumhunting

Leaning Town

4) Benmage - based on claim, was town-neutral yesterday.
3) Amrun - reactions D1
17) Cobblerfone - based on Kats flip
10) xRECKONERx -
18) evilpacman18

Neutral

7) kanyeknowsbest - haven't really got a read on him

Leaning Scum

5) Lowell - lurky
2) populartajo - based on Mask death primarily
9) C-Worl (replacing WingDamage9001) - gut, Katsuki interactions, lack of scumhunting

Strongly Feel they are scum

11) Sathoris - gut, lack of scum hunting, iso #10 scummy looks like bussing
13) Magister Ludi - based on track, lurky
16) AlmasterGM - D1 interactions with Katsuki, general scummy read on him so far this game.

[Juls]

EBWOP, got distracted and skipped over explanation for Reck and pacman

Reck - only thing I didn't like was the hypo-claiming
pacman - had some town-tells D1 for me

[Juls]

Have you missed ben's claim?

[Juls]

Interesting...

but thats an easy way to get himself lynched tomorrow. We test him today.

[Juls]

We are in a game of speed mafia, why would he target you as town gambitting when he saw how fast yesterday ended?

[Juls]

Link the games please.

(btw, you were low-neutral for me D1 and ben was high-town-leaning)

[Juls]

That should say ben was high-neutral/town leaning.

[Juls]

This is becoming regular maf with all these banks.

[Juls]

I didn't fence sit. I changed my mind late due to Cobbler blowing my read on her.

[Juls]

Ludi, you were scum right?

[Juls]

I think AGM already did.

[Juls]

Fence-sitting would suggest I couldn't make a decision about her.

I did make a decision that I thought Cobbler was scummier. Had cobbler been lynched and flipped town I would have went right back on her. She did nothing townie, but Cobbler seemed scummier to me based directly on his interactions around katsuki.

[Juls]

To be honest, the more I think about it, the more I think tajo was the kill target. Scum could have waited one night before killing the mask to lose the suspicion around tajo if he were scum.
But, I agree, barring any new evidence found in the night, tajo is a good way to look since we are in such good shape.

[Juls]

@AGM, because tajo was jailkept N1 and The Mask hypo'd it. So tajo could have killed the Mask to be sacrificed and get rid of Jailer.

Vote: tajo

[Juls]

Wow, this game is awesome.
Guaranteed 3 of 4 scum right here.
Lets do tajo because he has more evidence against him and if he is telling the truth he's gonna die in night anyway.
Although if he is telling the truth I guess it will be my turn to eat humble pie.

[Juls]

To be honest, I don't care which one of you are scum. It just means that we are 1 away from the win.

[Juls]

I prefer Apple Pie.

[Juls]

If Tajo is really a scum rolecop he will get another chance to give his buddies info. This wreaks of a sacrifice. I don't know that I buy they are buddies but something tajo said a while ago made no sense whatsoever. He said that he was jailkept N1 because they knew he was on Amrun's tail. That would assume that scum knew his role. That doesn't make sense. He can "prove" himself by being a scum rolecop and claiming he is a town rolecop. I don't buy it, sorry.

[Juls]

Sorry wait, I mis-said that. He said they "killed him because he was jailkept". Not jailkept him. But still the point is the same.

[Juls]

I don't think there is a weakling since we have seen two goon flips. My guess is the final two are PRs.

[Juls]

OK. I understand. But I still am scared to keep you alive when you could very well be a scum rolecop. I find it super convenient that you knew we were going after you today and you just Hallelujah! Caught scum!
Additionally, I haven't heard you claim your targets and give us clears....

[Juls]

Targets tajo....

[Juls]

I might claim my previous actions but I REALLY think its a bad idea.

"previous actions" plural. "PREVIOUS ACTIONS" PLURAL.
Fact: If tajo was telling the truth he would have exactly ONE other action because he was jailkept N1.

[Juls]

My hypothesis: Tajo isn't claiming his targets because his scum-rolecop targets won't match his stated reads.

[Juls]

So you have found a vanilla townie?

[Juls]

Wow, Almaster, you may have just turned my entire read on you around with that one comment.

[Juls]

@Reck - If he is scum rolecop he gets an extra day to cop.

[Juls]

The obvious choice for him to cop was Cobblerfone. He didn't cop him. Check it:

townz
4) Benmage - agressive benmage is town benmage
8) CrimpingNoofball - meta
14) SpyreX - meta
16) AlmasterGM - gut
18) evilpacman18 - dgb-camn-juls paranoia is a towntell.

dunno yet, i need moar input list
1) The Mask - dunno what to make of his spyrex hate
3) Amrun - i agree too much coincidence but reads are interesting
5) Lowell - not enough input
6) Juls - loaded question is loaded question, i dislike when people post when they are going to post, but posting is overall ok.

the I have doubts list
7) kanyeknowsbest - bad posts
10) xRECKONERx - smells bad, gut
11) Sathoris - reck attack feels weird
12) Haylen - bad post is bad post
13) Magister Ludi - gut, attack on evil feels oportuinistic

scumzorz list
9) WingDamage9001 - terrible posts
15) Katsuki - terrible posts, jokes with being scum, fails at defending, fails at reads, feels caught
17) Cobblerfone -

townz
1) The Mask - new, liked his last post
4) Benmage - agressive benmage is town benmage
7) kanyeknowsbest - who the hell admits he cant be read as town?
8) CrimpingNoofball - meta
14) SpyreX - meta
16) AlmasterGM - good posting
18) evilpacman18 - dgb-camn-juls paranoia is a towntell.

the I have doubts list
5) Lowell - not enough input
6) Juls - still have doubts
10) xRECKONERx - WHERE IS A MY BETTER LIST??
11) Sathoris - reck attack feels weird
12) Haylen - bad reads are bad reads
13) Magister Ludi - gut, attack on evil feels oportuinistic

scumzorz list
3) Amrun - i agree too much coincidence, placeholder vote is fail,
9) WingDamage9001 - terrible posts, hasnt improved with c.worl
15) Katsuki - terrible posts, jokes with being scum, fails at defending, fails at reads, feels caught, FAKE claim
17) Cobblerfone -

Cobbler didn't move. Why didn't you cop Cobbler?

[Juls]

FINE IT DOESN'T MATTER WE LYNCH SCUM EITHER WAY

VOTE: TAJO

WHY THE FUCK WOULD SCUM SUICIDE LIKE THIS IDK BUT WHO CARES

Because we made it clear he died tomorrow no matter what because of the jailkeep thing. He is trying to buy another day.

[Juls]

I missed his cobbler claim. He should have at least give him the benefit of the doubt IMO, not immediately vote him the next day.

[Juls]

It's NULL, but not guaranteed scum as you placed him.

[Juls]

I'm off to bed. Please lynch tajo scum before I wake.

[Juls]

Can we stop lynching people before I have a chance to post?

"Amrun is town 100%"
-CNB

Also. Notice how they totally got off me in their recent posts? I'm guessing they rolecopped me too.

vote: AlmasterGM

Let's do this

(my emphasis)
Amrun is town, confirmed by rolecop, however she could be Godfather (but I don't believe it). We are basically in a mini-normal with two scum now and given the number of friggin PRs that have died one of theirs must be a rolecop.

[Juls]

Godfather + Rolecop + 2 Goons

This is what I suspect. Weakling doesn't make sense given two goons. It's a good chance you could replace Godfather with Roleblocker given that we had a JK.

[Juls]

I am thinking yes (there is a roleblocker) now more than ever because look:
CNB's N1 choice was Katsuki

But they give no other hint of who they chose after that. And I retract that Amrun is 100% town because upon further inspection CNB was saying Amrun was the weakling just yesterday.

[Juls]

Sathoris is at L-3 by my count. We have flew through the days so we have time. Let everyone get in here and talk. Sathoris is certainly a scum-prospect but we need to have a little more time and let others get in here who have been skating by: kanye, packman, lowell, C-worl....

[Juls]

I'm not asking people to lurk. I just don't want their excuse to be that they didn't get a chance because we went too fast a la evilpacman already today.

[Juls]

Katsuki is scum for hopping on the caps bandwagon.

This is iso #1. He waits 24 hours and 7 posts later to vote her.

vote: Katsuki

...

Let's lynch Katsuki.

3 minutes later....

I'm very up for an Amrun lynch

votes amrun later that day.
...

vote: Katsuki
I want this back.

I'm not gonna be stubborn

like Haylen. For instance, I would lynch Cobbler. But

I'm not participating in Amrun or Haylen's wagons.

Gives himself an exit strategy.
Less than an hour later...

Sigh. I just wanna be proven right, really. And nothing else is gonna happen except time.

unvote, vote: Haylen

....
Day 2 after obviously Kat was scum

Told you.

vote: Katsuki

Yeah, I like evil as scum. Reserving my vote for a while for more content.

[Juls]

Also, fun fact: I checked evilpacman's posting history, and he's posting quite a bit in almost every game BUT THIS ONE.

I'm in one other game and it's much slower and easier to keep up with.

ORLY? By my count you have done 10 posts in that game tonight alone. Not so many in here....

[Juls]

Why is AGM scum?

[Juls]

Um....nope.

[Juls]

Also Ludi buses you a bit in his first post but votes someone else.

[Juls]

Fail evil

... you can't even come in here and make up something about your read on AGM? I see you browsing the forum (/wave). I have to go to bed now. Extremely disappointed and now I am going to vote!

Vote: evilpacman

[Juls]

Amrun should be the lynch tomorrow. I know I have had a town read on her but I don't want to get to LYLO with her here. She has been too much of a lightning rod and

I can be wrong

. Also if pacman flips town I really hate her vote today. If he flips scum I might need to rethink it a little bit.

[Juls]

Because you say you think he's town but you vote him.
You are a lylo danger. You are either scum or town who may be looked upon as scum in a lylo situation.

[Juls]

Hmmmmm.

SPYREX+JULS, READS ON AGM?

I have had AGM on the scum list for a while but it's not a SLAMDUNKSCUM read.

[Juls]

AGM kill does not make any sense. My targetting of Amrun at the end of yesterday was a ploy to see if I would be NK'd for it. I have a strong suspicion my reads are wrong and that is why I am being kept alive. I am going to take some time to read and think today.

[Juls]

Let's not mass claim yet, but I would like to know your targets each night. Planning to vote C-Worl but don't want the day to end yet.

[Juls]

Good point Spyrex. Pick who you want to go first.

[Juls]

I assume you want C-Worl on top of that list?

[Juls]

This is simple really

1) Spyrex is scum bussing C-Worl - Then we don't have to deal with him until Day 8 ( if he isn't killed in the night) when we will be down to 5 townies, 1 scum. We just get rid of him to go into the final day with 3-1 advantage. Even if he is telling the truth here and scum by pass him for TWO nights, he would have two clears to give us.
2) Spyrex is scum sacrificing - Completely unlikely. If he was he would target someone who was more townie. But lets play it through nonetheless. Then we kill him tomorrow and we exit Day 7 with 6-1 advantage.
3) Spyrex is town - He dies tonight. We enter Day 7 with a 6-1 advantage.

[Juls]

Plus, Spy knew that there may be multiples of roles early in the game.

[Juls]

Now we need Sathoris and Cobbler. Sathoris is online browsing the forum. So....

[Juls]

Are you going to claim Cobbler?

[Juls]

Targets C-worl?

[Juls]

C-Worl, are you scum? Who is your partner?

[Juls]

We are going to lynch you...you might as well be honest.

[Juls]

Reck's turn.

[Juls]

VT

Will vote after Spyrex claims his targets and says his parting words.

[Juls]

Unvote, Vote C-worl

Hammer is yours Spy.

[Juls]

I think Sathoris is the best way to go of the ones left.

vote Sathoris

Scummy Post #1 - way late vote, attempt to look townie.
Scummy Post #2 - way late vote, attempt to look townie.
Scummy Post #3 - knows tajo won't flip scum, but C-worl is in his scum list if he does.

We have 3 chances to get this right....

[Juls]

I would like to wait on Amrun and Cobble. I have reasons to think both of them are town. I even have reasons to think kanye is town. I have no reasons to think Sathoris is town.

[Juls]

Go for it, we have 2 more chances and we can discuss more tomorrow/next day. If we are wrong, at least we are narrowing the suspect pool.

[Juls]

*hoping this game is over*

[Juls]

If the last scum is a roleblocker he/she actually did us a favor by killing spy. I would have pushed hard for his lynch on Day 8 to make sure it wasn't a bus. They gave us an extra chance at hitting scum by killing him and not just blocking him.

[Juls]

He even leaves C-Worl out of his list here

I really think it's him...but maybe I just want it to be him SO BAD! Grrrrr.....I hope Patrick get's in here before I leave tomorrow (I am driving for 8.5 hours tomorrow and I will be thinking about this all the way if he doesn't)

[Juls]

Oh, you're right...who is he missing? I only count 16 and he isn't including himself.

[Juls]

EBWOP: It's Lowell, nevermind.

[Juls]

I am seriously beginning to think it's Reck or Amrun.

[Juls]

Reck, you are the one who has been calling it the "town alliance" I have not had a problem with you for the most part but like you said, it doesn't make any sense that I am still alive unless my reads are wrong and I am being kept alive for it. I am starting to get annoyed by it to be honest. And I don't know that reading back is going to solve anything because now I think they are just fucking with us with the kills. And you are the one I could see fucking with us Reck.

I haven't voted yet because I want to figure this shit out.

[Juls]

I've never seen so much OMGUS in my life. I make mention that I am starting to think it may be one of you two and Reck you do a complete flip flop and are certain I am scum. To be honest, I don't care if you guys lynch me or not. I don't want the blame for fucking this up anyway. If you guys are just going to target me in LYLO then it's probably better I am not here.

My reads on you Reck say it's not you but I question it because I am still living
My reads on you Amrun say it's not you but I question it because I am still living.
My reads on Kanye and Lowell are not as strong. Lowell has 14 frigging posts the entire game. Not a lot to go on or to"reread". Kanye I don't know. I have a null read on him. I didn't like his "I'm willing to vote Juls but I iso'd her and she looks town but I am voting Lowell" last post. It's leaving tons of outs.

P-edit: I am not voting yet Reck, I want to think about this more and reread some more.

[Juls]

My reaction was not based on the Cobble flip it was based on ME NOT BEING DEAD.

[Juls]

I have re-read about the first 20 pages. I am trying to go through and look at the C-worl, Katsuki, and Ludi interactions with you 4. There is one post by Reck that I don't like (he says if Kats is scum then C-Worl is scum which seems to be a big leap at that point in the game) but I also see a lot of interactions that lead me to think he is town.

Leaning toward Lowell at this point. I really want to narrow this shit. Will read the other 40 pages later (tomorrow probably).

[Juls]

It's just an interaction worth looking at, but the rest of my reads from you are town. It could be a bus. Katsuki was doing it all over the place on WD/C-worl. His sentence alone does not jump out at me until I see both their flips. If I am reading that and not knowing either at the time I wouldn't have made that leap.

[Juls]

See that's exactly what I don't want Amrun.

If you are going to lynch me, do it today

because I don't want this BS WIFOM shit in 3-way lylo.

[Juls]

In post 299 Kats calls Ludi town and busses WD/C-Worl so to say she wouldn't bus like that directly conflicts with evidence we have of her BUSSING one guy while calling another buddy town. Lowell has 14 frigging posts and I see jack shit in them that tells me anything about his alignment.

[Juls]

Sorry that post was before reading this page.
Also, Reck...what you are doing is exactly what you were accusing me of doing. You are setting up today and tomorrow's lynches.

[Juls]

@Amrun, I don't know. I debated posting it earlier but I can't draw any conclusions because she tells Reck she doesn't get his case on her, calls you misguided, calls me town, and doesn't mention kanye or lowell. But she DOES bus one buddy and calls the other town so she was definitely in the bussing business.

[Juls]

Reck my argument is hardly based just on that wifomy business. I have plenty of other objections against him.

List em

[Juls]

I want Lowell's case on kanye before voting.

[Juls]

kanye, are you an alt?

[Juls]

I just notice you don't have a lot of games. I want to read a kanye-scum game.

[Juls]

Do you happen to still have your scum quicktopic for it?

[Juls]

We needn't share everything Reck.

[Juls]

That was pretty weak Lowell. If you are town you need to make a LITTLE effort.

[Juls]

This is the countdown to me voting Lowell if he doesn't do anything else:

(expired on 2011-06-06 16:19:00)

[Juls]

I don't care which we lynch really. I didn't see what he was talking about, but thanks Lowell, it solidified my town-read on Amrun by rereading that. Why do you think Lowell is town Reck? I probably won't vote until I do a complete read of both of them tonight after work. For me Amrun is off the table for today and likely Reck unless someone has some compelling evidence.

[Juls]

What are your feelings on kanye?

[Juls]

Sorry, I read that wrong. I thought that was Lowell on him when I looked at the vote count.

[Juls]

Lowell, what are your thoughts on Reck?

[Juls]

Alright, I am going to vote kanye tonight when I get home but I want Amrun to have a chance to weigh in.

I had an epiphany while I was getting ready for work and thinking about why am I still alive. Then I remembered this from kanye. He wanted me to remember that quote about Amrun. He wanted me to doubt my reads and he sees that I have been doing it the past two days. Also, when reading over him again, this post jumped out at me. This is classic, I suspect my scumbuddy but I suspect other people more. Also, C-Worl was all "lovey" with both Katsuki and Kanye in his posts. It's kinda this twisted scum-love thing? (Just search for kanye and katsuki in C-Worl's iso to see what I am talking about).

I wanted to ask Lowell that question about Reck because he expressed suspicion on him yesterday and wanted to see if he would call Reck ubertown but he didn't so I am satisfied.

[Juls]

No, he agreed with Sathoris that your reaction to SpyreX's track was scummy.

[Juls]

I am not scum because I could easily hammer right now if I were. I told myself if it came down to us 3 the one who placed a vote immediately would be scum. That's pretty careless of you if you are town Amrun. Reck, if you are town, I highly encourage you NOT to place a vote yet.

[Juls]

I don't want to lynch you, though. I want to lynch Lowell and I think that will end the game.

But if it's me, you, and Reck in 3-way LyLo I'll be stuck as shit, it's true.

Amrun, what changed over night here?

[Juls]

I meant you shouldn't vote for me. But if you want to vote Amrun have at it. I haven't decided which of you are scum yet but I am not liking Amrun's start.

[Juls]

Don't pressure me....I am going to need some time on this and Amrun needs to get her ass in here.

[Juls]

OK, I want an honest answer to this question from both of you:

Pretend you are scum for a minute (one of you are so this isn't a stretch), why did you bring me and {Reck/Amrun} to 3-way LYLO instead of Lowell?

Answer as if you are scum, don't say "I wouldn't".

[Juls]

A test? Um...one that would lose the game?

[Juls]

Amrun, I was seriously ready to hammer Reck based on rereading bits of the thread (specifically the tajo gambit) but you are failing gloriously right now. Tell me why I shouldn't vote you?

[Juls]

Amrun, its a bit hypocritical what you are saying that Reck was hedging his bets because one big problem I have with you right now is this yesterday:

I want to lynch Lowell and I think that will end the game.

I DON'T think Juls is scum, but it's not mylo yet. If Juls isn't scum, I feel like we have a decent chance of hitting scum tomorrow.

BUT THEN AGAIN

KATSUKI HAS SHENANIGANS WITH LOWELL

VOTE: kanye

[Juls]

Reckoner, a big problem I have with you right now is what tajo brought up when admitting his gambit: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3065545 . He called you out specifically for being too informed.

Now here is my problem: C-Worl was pushing hard to lynch Amrun. It's not a good bus in that situation because it wouldn't make him obvtown when she flipped scum and he would have been last scum. You also wanted to lynch Amrun first. From a scum perspective, you would want Amrun lynched first so that we would hit tajo the next day thus wasting two lynches on town. Also, Amruns reactions were so strong that she would be vindicated. I am trying to wrap my head around how scum would do that.

[Juls]

well, which ever one of you it is, you played a good game. I almost want to flip a coin to be honest....

Amrun, explain in what world I would not be confirmed town after not hammering after your vote at the beginning of the day?

[Juls]

Alright, I am going to hammer. I am probably going to be wrong and I am going to pre-apologize to everyone and likely be the goat of the game.

Will there be any hard feelings from either or you? Will either of you call me dumb?

[Juls]

I could make a case for you both being scum and I could make a case for you both being town. Amrun has been BAD today but I just don't think it was manufactured in the tajo gambit.

Vote Reckoner

Sorry if I am wrong.