Newbie 1104 -- Game over

[forest_air]

/confirm

1. What, if any, experience do you have at mafia?

I've played a couple games in real life, and I recently was in a game on another site. It's not over yet, but supposedly the SK dismembered my body, so I'm no longer active there.

2. What is your timezone?

I think it's GST-8 here? Daylight savings time confuses me(well, it's 16:29 right now)

3. How often can we expect you to be posting?

I'll try to post at least once everyday. Some days of the week are busy for me, but I usually will have time to at least be up to date with the posts.

<Vote : noragar >

Yay for RVS.

[forest_air]

Oops. Disregard that please, I didn't realize it >W>

[forest_air]

why would I PL you anyways?

What does PL mean?

[forest_air]

Vote : Lord of Graves

Anyone with a name like that surely wants innocent people dead.

[forest_air]

I know. The thought process fell apart when I reread the mod's original post. 25% for a cop and 25% for a doctor no dupe already makes this combo very rare. My bad guys.

Cop + Jailbreaker
Cop + Vanilla Townie
Cop + Doctor
Jailbreaker + Vanilla Townie
Jailbreaker + Doctor
Vanilla Townie + Doctor

Okay, I might have calculated wrong, but basically there's a 1/6 chance for any of these combos to occur, right?

But, you could also think of it this way, if you happen to be a PR:

If they're a jailbreaker: There is a 1/3 chance of having a Doctor, Cop, or a Vanilla Townie.
If they're a doctor: There is a 1/3 chance of having a Cop, a Jailbreaker, or a Vanilla Townie.
If someone is a cop: There is a 1/3 chance of the town having a Doctor, a Jailbreaker, or just having another Vanilla Townie.

So since there are 4 possibilities (3/4 of which are PR,) and 2 slots, the chances for having a doctor and cop combo aren't actually that bad if we ask the person who happens to have be Doctor or Cop. But of course they wouldn't be stupid enough to roleclaim(unless you have complete newbies as PRs.)

Seems kind of obvious, but something a PR could keep in mind I suppose.

Unvote: Lord of Graves

At this point so far, I'm suspicious of TwistedSpoon. From what I've seen, scum tend to vote in the middle to hide themselves and look like townies, and since gbevilchaos is already at L-2, adding another vote just encourages an opening for other scum to bandwagon and lynch off innocent townies.

Vote: TwistedSpoon

[forest_air]

Scum are capabe of being both logical and seeming to be pro-town. But innocent Vanilla Townies, especially of the inexperienced variety, have the potential to appear completely scummy. I don't really think analyzing a person's posts or judging their reactions are a good way to determine whether or not they are scum. But I'm also not being suspicious of Twisted for those reasons, either.

In my opinion, voting habits tend to be the best indicator, but can scums also vote for other scum and then switch the votes at the last minute to confuse the townies into lynching off another townie. We should be aware of all these possibilities, especially at the beginning of the game, so don't be too trusting of any other person unless you know for sure who they are(like mafia + mafia and cop + townie they investigated, etc)

And oops, I meant to say since Twisted changed to CaptainCuddles, who already had 2 votes, and I guess I got mixed up since he changed from you to Cuddles.

Whatever, my vote still stands.

[forest_air]

I do understand his reasoning, but his vote makes Captain L-2, which is just 1 vote away from being L-1. So, if someone decides to bandwagon, Captain could be voted off because of what an IC says. Obviously TwistedSpoon has more experience than I do in this game, making his arguements more influential towards other players. He could just as easily be mafia taking advantage of his persuasiveness as he could be a helpful doctor trying to figure out whom to protect tonight. Either way, I don't want a lynch to occur just yet, as we have 3 weeks to make a decision, and not much to go by on.

I notice how you voted Espeonage who happened to change his voted after you sided him about the avatar thing, even though he didn't really have a reason, and you could have easily voted for a person such as myself during RVS instead. Then, after it was noted how CC was acting scummie because of the thing he said, more people started to vote for him. And then you stated how you had more reason to believe your "random" vote was more reasonable then, without saying much after that. I'd like to see more about what you think is suspicious of me, or other people, instead of just agreeing with what other people have to say. I'm already starting to suspect you because of that. More experienced players like to raise suspicion on newer players, who don't know how to defend themselves either, so the next person he seems to give "appropriate logic" for could be you.

And as much as I'd hate to admit it, but due to the higher townie to mafia ratio at the beginning of the game, a townie will most likely be killed on day one. So technically we are able to have one person die, since the odds aren't really on the side of the town at the beginning. CC seemed to be objective when he said that, he was just stating the truth. I don't really see anything scummy about that.

[forest_air]

Also, I'd like to note how both of the people who haven't voted yet haven't posted for over two days.

[forest_air]

I'm aware you did vote for him before that, but I was just questioning your reason for copying someone who was voting for him during RVS instead of voting for someone else to avoid bandwagoning so early. I just find that a little odd. Espeonage and Lord of Graves were already voting for him before you decided to. You put him at L-2. And I wasn't accusing you of copying Twisted, I was just wondering if you have any other reason to vote for him than what was said by other people after you voted and decided to keep your vote as people continued to give their input.

Although I do think it's a little weird for CC to already be voting someone to L-1, I don't really suspect him. He was acting a little rash, but other than that, it's not much of a reason to lynch him. I think he's just new to this game, and wants the next day to go by. He could just be a PR waiting for the night to come so he can use his ability.

In one game I played, this happened to one person, where he said we should vote fast on day 1, and he ended up being lynched for his eagerness for the day to pass, and we lost a tracker. Just because CC is doing something hasty isn't a reason for me to vote for him because again, I don't want to lynch someone too early. Although actions like that do make him more suspicious.

And clearly I didn't explain myself well enough? I voted for Twisted because voting to put CC at L-2. I could have easily done the same for you, you want me to change my vote? Twisted voting L-2 because he is giving someone the opportunity to do the same thing he was doing by voting for CC, backfiring trying to protect you. I would recommend for CC to unvote, as he seems to be just confused and I want this day to last for longer before a final decision is made. So, if I instead voted for CC, and someone else decided to do the same, we could be lynching a newbie townie, and that is why I choose not to vote for CC or anyone with a lot of votes for the time being.

And I didn't vote for Twisted because I have the intention of him getting lynched, FYI. I mostly voted for him because I want people to remember that he has the possibilty to be scum, no matter how "reasonable" his logic appears to be. Voting isn't the only means of questioning someone's vote. He could have easily just compiled a list of suspicious things about CC and left it at that, encouraging others to ponder his reasoning.


And voting for someone after they vote for you, usually makes you look scummy, just so you know. Other people may not care your reasoning why, and may accuse you of trying to defend yourself and turn suspion on another person.

[forest_air]

^Argh, I forgot to edit some of that...hopefully it still makes sense?

[forest_air]

I also find it interesting how everyone starts to put attention on Frostbite after Lord of Graves mentions it.

I think it could be noob town because if I were scum, I would've totally jumped on my noobiness and bandwagoned when people started to change their votes to me. I'm keeping my vote on Frostbite because he's the only one I see suspicious atm.

You seem to be lying about being a townie, even though you are obviously scum.

[forest_air]

I like that vote on TS you got there....

Awww...I was kind of hoping for some sort of response, not fluff. Makes you seem more suspicious(if it weren't so early in the day I would consider voting for you, but lynch time would be too early)

In the meantime, I'm gonna come up with a crazy theory that proves that CC and TS are actually working together. But since this is entirely subjunctive, so it's probably wrong. Instead I'm gonna suspect the chkflip for being new. I'm gonna sit back and observe for a while before I make another vote.

Unvote: TwistedSpoon

For anyone who cares, I suspect chkflip, TS and CC, in no particular order. (Don't take my suspicion for chkflip too seriously as that's also mostly out of bias.)

[forest_air]

Okay, sorry TS, by that I meant I wasn't going to make another vote until I had enough evidence. I was really tired when I typed that.

I don't really suspect Frostbite, as he retracted his vote once he noticed what was wrong. As for Lord of Graves, aside from the L-1ing, I haven't really noticed anything scummy about him. But I will keep my eye on him because of that. Since it's happened a few times already, and after what was said about L-1 as a means of pressure and getting out info, it doesn't seem as suspicious to do it anymore. Instead, the real person to suspect would be the person who take the hammer if the lynchie ends up being a townie.

It's day one, I don't exactly have enough to give an objective analysis, which is why I unvoted, CC. So far, none of the things that you've said have really been enough to influence who I suspect or decide to vote for. If you keep making comments like that I will have even more reason to believe you're scum.

As for the reason I suspect TS, I'm just being cautious, because he may end up being scum. It's just a feeling, at this point in the game, the odds of me being correct are pretty low. Another reason why I withdrew my vote. I mostly voted for him to see what kind of reactions I got and wondering if anyone would actually decide to bandwagon.

And by the way, I'm a she.

[forest_air]

so what info were you hoping for?

I was wondering if anyone would follow my vote. I also did that to see who else other than yourself would question my voting you. With so few people in this game, it was an attempt to get people to question my motives and for me to hopefully learn something about other players.

Plus I was wondering what CC would say. A few times when I changed my vote, he seems to imply that my reasoning for those vote changes was because of something he said. I find that scummy to note such things. There are other players in the game aside from him who I can decide to take their opinions from to decide on my vote.

Although he has been making a lot of posts, many of them were fluff, and his voting habits are making me suspicious.

Vote: CaptainCuddles

[forest_air]

@noragar, care to explain your vote?

[forest_air]

I see people voting as TS was asking people why they were being so conservative with their votes. Early on I screwed up because of some misunderstandings about how the games were played on MS.

@forest_air: Could you explain what you find suspicious about my voting habits? My current vote on Frost, I think, is justifiable. Others were random (TS) or OMGUS votes (which brought gb to L-1 >.> but then I really thought the entire game was going to end by June 3 and I didn't understand why people were being so slow).

The fluff posts was a result of, again, not understanding what the hell I am doing or the consequences of such posts. VI

You're not the only new person here. Even if you didn't understand what the hell you were doing, being new isn't really much of an excuse, as anyone could claim themselves to be new. This makes you seem more scummy.

And the OMGUS votes were pretty much what I was referring to.

[forest_air]

Same. My top 2 scum candidates are Graves and CC at the moment, but Graves isn't getting any attention.

Can everyone post their opinions on Graves? We need to start discussing him. CC has been discussed already, and nothing new has really popped up. Let's wait for him to do something else wrong before we all default back to the guy who was the easiest target during his first few days of play.

I'll do some re-reading and get back to you on that later on.

Fixed quote tag. ~~NS

[forest_air]

@gbevilchaos: I think the reason that LoG isn't getting much attention is because of his lack of posting. He's also been quite inactive lately, and it's not like he's on the other side of the world, or had any reason to be gone. But he might have school/work or something or maybe got bored of the slow pacing of the game?

I was aware that LoG hadn't posted much already, but I simply failed to notice how empty his posts were. Maybe that's why I didn't really put him much into consideration when choosing whom to vote for. But CC voting for Frostbite, even when LoG didn't have a lot of information to go on, seems kind of scummy to me. Does LoG have any other reasoning to vote for Frostbite than the little he has given us? Do you, CC, have any more reason to keep your vote for Frostbite other than what you've already told us?

Aside from the voting, which he retracted as soon as he saw what was wrong, Frostbite hasn't done anything particularly scummy. Maybe he hasn't posted as much as we would have liked him to, but with his situation, there isn't much to be done, I guess.

Now I'm wondering why LoG voted for Frostbite with such little evidence. And CC's motivation to do so.

When you get on, Frostbite, can you tell us what you have to say about CC and LoG?

I'm still suspicious of CC, however, and as I said earlier, his "I'm new" excuse is rather lame. I'll keep my vote on him for the time being, but my suspicion for LoG has gone up.

[forest_air]

actually, my gut is quite suspicious of noragar

Is that the only reason you're voting for him?

[forest_air]

He's been active enough, but most of his posts so far were just explaining terminology and then his posts regarding scum skimming. He hasn't really posted enough for me to make a vote on him, but I'm starting to think of him as more suspicious because of this.

He does seem to be trying to lay low, though, trying keep unoticed?

[forest_air]

If you're getting a town-tell from me, why are you so quick to jump on the bandwagon

just because TwistedSpoon asked you to?

Yeah, I thought that was a little weird, too. But you aren't exactly posting a lot. Scum try to blend in, so maybe he changed his mind.

And flip agreeing to vote is giving me suspicious vibes. I guess it's okay to be buddy-buddy with people who know each other, unlike what happened with CC and Espeonage on the first page.

CC and noragar, anything to contribute?

[forest_air]

Otolia, you should make a vote soon, or at least give us a better idea on who you are suspicious of. I'm eager to see what you can come up with after reading 8 pages worth of posts and coming in a little later in the game.

[forest_air]

I don't think we're going to hear a response from him until tomorrow. Yesterday at around this time he said it was late for him >_>

[forest_air]

Out of the 3 banwagonned, none really stands out as very scummy. Frostbite should post more. CptCuddles has make up his mind about what he want to do today. So in the end, the only one who seems to have a plan is noragar. It isn't always scummy not it is townish.

VOTE: noragar. Let's see what you do when under pressure.

Putting someone at L-2 on day one isn't putting on as much pressure as if someone were to put him at L-1.

But that would be reckless and stupid, as we have several IRL days before this day ends. But on the other hand, I'm almost tempted to do it. Noragar has been fairly inactive, and doesn't give much reasoning for his votes, which is really bothering me.

CC is still suspicious to me, but I find it interesting how noragar was voting for him soon after I made my vote.

For the time being, I will unvote, and when I wake up, hopefully some stuff happens so I can make another one.

Unvote: CC

[forest_air]

Okay, noragar seems pretty scummy to me. Call me a bandwagoner, but he is more suspicious to me than CC and his defences aren't really cutting it for me. He has started to post more, but that is only because people are voting against him and he copied my vote with very little reason to back it up.

Vote: noragar

[forest_air]

I'd probably believe your justification more if you hadn't changed your vote at the same time. And it being an OMGUS vote and attempt at shifting the blame is really making you seem scummy.

And I don't really get the point of roleclaiming in a newbie game, because everyone is going to say they're Vanilla Townies, since the PRs will get killed at night by the mafia if they confess and the mafia won't roleclaim as scum for obvious reasons.

[forest_air]

@Gbevilchaos, what if he really was cop or doctor?

[forest_air]

Okay, that makes sense.

[forest_air]

Often, I get skipped when someone decides to give us their opinion on a majority of the town. I find that interesting, although I'm not sure if anyone is aware of it.

Just letting you guys know that scums would use getting skipped to their advantage to avoid being suspected. That being said, I'm unvoting,

again

as I need to read over some things and my suspicions have changed a bit.

And Otolia, please don't give us any more posts saying you will post shortly only to tell us a little while later to tell us you're too busy. The time you took to make those two posts could have been used to make one very short effective defense/analysis/whatever. Or you didn't have to post at all. You're not in danger of being prodded, and frankly, it's annoying me.

[forest_air]

^

Unvote: noragar

[forest_air]

You know what time it is for me little punk ? It's 1AM, I have to get up as early as 5AM tomorrow. I'm still waiting on a green light by NS to post what I had to say. I'm not a flaker. I promised a post and I will deliver it. I am not excusing myself for taking time to speak with my girlfriend and my best friend. My post will come, if you are not capable of waiting then [censored]

THIS. KIND. OF. ATTITUDE. REALLY. PISSES. ME. OFF.

Okay, sorry to offend you. That was like the opposite of my intention. I know this sounds weird, but I don't really consider the feelings of another poster until after I get a reaction. What other people say to me rarely ever affect me emotionally.

And I wasn't accusing you of being a flaker, I was just asking if you would stop making so many posts explaining why you're not posting. I knew that if you weren't posting for so long, you'd have something good to say. And you obviously have more experience in this game than I do, so I put more trust into that being true.

But you seemed to be wasting your time posting on why you couldn't post and I was just giving a suggestion on how to save your time. I was thinking of putting in a 'no offense' comment in my post, but based on the reactions of others around me, people don't take it seriously when I say things like that, so I didn't bother.

[forest_air]

@chkflip : What makes Espeonage more suspicious than Otolia now?

[forest_air]

His 282

doesn't seem scum motivated, brings up interesting points on Spoon; meanwhile, Espe is 12 hours lurked, has little to no actual content, and has fluffed a good bit.

I've played with Espe - it doesn't mean I can read him any better or worse than anyone else, but he lurked as scum in that one, too.

Newbie question time: What do you mean by that?

[forest_air]

^Thanks for explanation. And yes I know about the ISO already :3

But how he plays in another game doesn't supply much evidence for what he has in mind for this game, does it not?

[forest_air]

Woah, so many pages to catch up on >W>

Okay, from what I can tell, I think TS and Otolia are both town. Although I think some of Otolia's points are questionable, on the other hand, some of the things that TS seem odd. A thought occured that they could be making an act to make the town think that one of them is scum and one is not, to protect the one who gets lynched. Think about it, there are quite a few people who are away(CC, Espe, Frostbite) so it would be hard to acquire enough votes to lynch someone unless gbevil or myself decided to make a vote.

And TS's willingness to give himself up for D2 is really bothering me. Rather eerie thing to say. Striked me as irrationable, and since this is only day 1, and nobody has died yet. If the other people had made an analysis like Otolia, I believe TS would have reacted in a similar way. Picking out points of interest to ridicule and using that as evidence to vote for Otolia. Rather suspicious that a TS would make an OMGUS vote. You know, since not a lot of very large posts have been made with a lot of potential for nitpicking.

As for Otolia, he seems more town to me than TS, but I could be wrong. He has been posting more after making his argument, and now that he has made a decision I will have more of a means to get a better read of him.

Of course, chkflip also strikes me as suspicious, because he seems to keep following TS without much time passing by. I would really like to know his motivation for that, but I don't think it has to do with TS being an IC. Strange as that sounds, as chkflip is willing to vote for a seemingly random person each time as he just agrees with little meat to back up his vote. I'm considering voting for him as of this point in the game.

Other than that, I don't really have anything to contribute.

[forest_air]

^It's generally not good to trust vibes, but I just have a feeling that neither of TS or Otolia are scum. As I said, I could be wrong, but I've been in a game somewhere else where there was this three-way group of people FOSing and voting for each other. They kept on picking at the little things in each others' posts and caused a lot of bandwagoning and opportunities for scums to manipulate the town. In this particular game, they all ended up getting NKed/lynched and each one was a completely innocent vanilla townie. I think the same thing may be happening here.

And okay, I looked back and I take back what I said about Otolia. He seems more on the scum side than TS now, because some of TS's in the middle pages seemed pro-town and I'm just as unsure as almost everyone here who is scum and who is not. And after re-reading, some of the things that Otolia said seem less townish to me.

Again, I had a lot of pages to read. I think I skipped a post or two by accident. But, I still think it's just a TT thing happening here.

And note how I didn't vote for anyone. I'm still suspicious of chkflip, because he was just following TS around. Honestly, if I wanted side with Otolia's, I would have actually voted for chkflip. Even though I had suspicions of TS earlier on in the game, I chose not to vote for him. Even though I do partially agree with some of the things Otolia said, I also find some things about what TS to be true.

And thus, I am not convinced enough to vote for anyone just yet. We still have quite a few IRL days left in this game, so I don't want to bandwagon as it'll 1)cause people to accuse me of voting for a townie(if the one lynched

is

a townie or 2)we still have to wait for Espeonage.

I am also anticipating that Frostbite's replacement will arrive before the day ends.

My experience is the people who lurk or make very short posts(not neccessarily fluff) are more likely to be scum. I could be saying the same thing about CC but since he hasn't posted for a while, and it will be even longer before he comes back. If TS and Otolia are posting so much, I'd rather have them be alive to see who will be analyzing tomorrow's deaths than some people who continuely bandwagon or post with insufficient evidence. If a person posts enough, basically anything they say can be a scumtell, and whatever an IC says can be convincing to everyone since he has played for a long time and this is a newbie game...full of newbies(including myself ._.)

Just out of curiousity, are you voting for me out of pressure, or because you seriously suspect me?

[forest_air]

^Okay, I've been suspecting you to be town also. Taking initiative to check whether or not I am one was an interesting move to make. In a way, I respect you for that. You haven't done anything to make me believe you are scum and I trust that your read on him is right.

Otolia didn't have to post angry comments, and he kept using that as excuses for some of the content of his posts. After some thinking, I don't see any advantage for those posts. And if he has as much experience as he claims, then he should know that making a really long post after another makes him appear to be tunneling.

I will still be keeping my eye on TS.

So, I'll take the hammer. Not like anyone looks like they'll be changing their mind soon, and I think this day has gone on long enough for a vote. Let's just hope I made the right decision.

Vote: Otolia

[forest_air]

I'll break the deal for you : I'm scum.

Go partner, you can win this.

PS : I'll have A LOT to say about TS focus after game. See you there.

Woah, are you serious? A scum lynch on the first night? Wow.

Thanks for playing with us, it was fun while it lasted. And we'll get your scummate, too, don't worry.

[forest_air]

Okay, here are my reads. Anything posted here is viable to change after we figure out who dies tonight.

TS: Innocent enough, he would have not started the bandwagon if he were a scum accomplice.
noragar: I think he is scum. As was said earlier, Otolia seemed protective of him and he had the same vote as Otolia, who is scum.
CC: Hasn't been around due to V/LA but I can't quite determine whether or not he's town, as he posted a lot of fluff.
Frostbite: Seems like town, but I may just be saying that because CC voted for him.
gbevilchaos: If you were scum, you would not have put Otolia at L-1, inviting to hammer him. So, pro-town.
chkflip: I'm suspicious of him, but if he knew Otolia were scum, he would have jumped off the bagon once he saw how many voters Otolia had. So, probably townie.
espeonage: He hasn't posted a lot, but I'm waiting his post. I'm putting him on my suspect list, but he isn't the most suspicious.

And if taking the hammer wasn't enough evidence I'm not scum, then I don't know what is.

[forest_air]

@noragar: To answer your question from the last day, I was just basing my opinions off of what had recently occured in the voting. I said I was going to go read over what happened to get a better read on the alive players. Unfortunately I am going to be very busy this week so I'm not sure when I'll have the time to do that.

As TS did earlier with Otolia being scum, I'm willing to get lynched because over the last few days I've skimmed over and chkflip hasn't done anything especially scummy. I'll provide my reasoning when I get back as I'm short on time even as I type this. I know this is very lame, but my gut tells me that chkflip is innocent. And you have been near the top of my list, so that's all I have to say for now.

Vote: noragar

@NS : Going V/LA

[forest_air]

Hey guys, I'm back.

@Haylen, excellent analysis, you caught many things I actually didn't notice myself or forgot about. I didn't think they mattered, but I appreciate how you've made such thorough posts on the people in the game.

I feel obliged to respond to your posts.

My first RV was out of pure randomness. The game hadn't even started yet, and I was excited to play the game. The reason I switched to Lord of Graves(now deceased Otolia) was because I didn't want people to think I was intent on voting for noragar. Don't think too much of that, because revoting for noragar could probably have been seen as scummy if I had actually done that.

But now my vote on noragar is serious because I have what I need to prove that noragar is scum and chkflip is town. I'll make a post on that next.

There are a lot of other things that you pointed out like me "lying about game experience." When this game started, the other game I was playing was still ongoing, but I had already been killed night 3 or something. I was actually referring to the same game whenever I talked about a past game, but thought of it in a different way since it ended pretty quickly after my first reference.

And just to be clear, if I do anything that seems noobish, I'm perfectly capable of taking responsibility instead of going "But I'm new!" So don't think otherwise

And yes of course I don't think just looking at posts is the only way to find scum. Just at that point in the game, I was more intent on focusing on the random votes. I should have explained myself more clearly. Not a lot of posts had been made at that point, so people looking for scumtells would only be able to find them in the players who had posted more.

My initial vote for chkflip was a joke. I was prepared to take it off once I had more evidence for someone else I was suspecting at that point. Don't think anything of it.

And I made my vote for Otolia after much consideration. I knew that it was risky, but someone had to take the hammer. Earlier I was being extremely cautious, but this game does involve making risks, and at the time of voting, I decided that that was the right moment to make one.

Think what you want, but I'm not guilty of anything. But thanks for your opinions.

[forest_air]

Warning: Super long post. Full of multi-quotes, probably some grammar mistakes, and I promise at least one piece of faulty logic. I stand by my opinions unless someone proves me horribly wrong.

Okay, why I'm suspicious of noragar. To sum up #188, at the beginning his posts were mostly explaining terminology and his posts were limited. I was beginning to suspect he was trying to remain unseen. TS asked chkflip to vote for noragar, which he did. Then, noragar said to chkflip :

If you're getting a town-tell from me, why are you so quick to jump on the bandwagon just because TwistedSpoon asked you to?

even though chkflip did say he had suspected noragar earlier on in 185.

Then in post 204, Otolia votes for noragar out of pressure. Obviously, since he was scum, he wasn't going to keep to his original vote, and I probably would have voted for my scum buddy first post if I were replacing into the game, too.

chkflip later makes some points about noragar deflecting scum in 208. He starts to post more as the game goes on, but I felt that was only because he was being BWed against. I vote for noragar then, and Otolia says to me:

It is to be expected that anyone who is being bandwagonned start to post more. I am not sure I like the way you are justifying your vote.

Early noragar defences from Otolia. Who continued to do that as the game went on. Noragar then directs this next quote at me:

The reasons I've seen for the votes against me are:

1. Answering an easy question to try to appear more town
2. Scum skimming because I skimmed over a post that hadn't been made yet when I answered that question.
3. Trying to blend in and not appear scummy. Isn't it good strategy to try to not appear scummy whether you're scum or town?
4. Not posting very much even though I've posted more than half the other people in the game.
5. Copying a vote without reason, even though I stated my reasons before the vote I "copied" was made.

I guess if I'm going out, I may as well have my vote on the person who tried hardest to orchestrate it.

Unvote
Vote: Chkflip

My initial read on the spot when there was nothing else to go on was that of Vanilla townie since I thought that when the original person disappeared immediately, I though it was more likely that someone would just walk away after getting dealt a VT role than either a scum or a power role. But since then, Chkflip's actions make no sense to me. First he tries to fabricate a very weak case against me. Then after that fails, he admits that my responses seem town, then immediately votes for me because someone asked him to. I tried to get more information about his justifications, but it looks like I may not have time to do that.

At that point I didn't like the logic he used to vote.
Then he attempts to give a shout out to gbevil, someone who is continually refered to as pro-town. I was thinking it could have been an attempt to appeal to the town and to convince them to change their votes.

Oh - and a shout out to gbevil. Thanks for the support.

You're either the one townie that has a clue, or doing a good job at distancing yourself from chkflip to help your scum partnership with him - either way, something my fellow townies should keep in mind further down the road.

I would have believed him at the time, but he made an OMGUS vote. Just trying to shift the blame in an attempt to get the BW off of him.
Then after some PR drama, TS switches his vote to Otolia, while pondering whether it would be better to vote for him or Espeonage. I unvote for noragar, make a comment that pisses off Otolia, and chaos ensues.

TS votes for Otolia. Chkflip follows, again. I think Chkflip was trying to play it safe since TS is the IC, but chkflip could have actually known what he was doing. Otolia was acting really irrationally then, I would have voted for him earlier if I weren't so cautious and afraid of a lynch too early.

Otolia accuses TS of tunneling. Chkflip says this which makes me think he's more town:

I also think your "self preservation motivated" theory seems even more fitting here. Scum wants to live.

Some more stuff happens. Otolia says noragar cannot be lynched today (reading this after Otolia turned out scum leads me to believe that Otolia was trying to prove to the town that noragar was town so he could survive to the end? Otolia was getting really close to a lynch then...just a thought. Anything to keep the mafia alive.

Otolia then makes a pedobear joke after being questioned who his partner was, then a few posts later:

You are really spouting out random affirmations without thinking about it, just like TS. This question is a true dilemma for every side (except Third Party maybe), and here is why.

Scum-side

: A mafia player don't name his partner at first because it too dangerous. But naming a townie will drew further suspicions on the people you didn't name including your partner. It becomes a game of WIFOM

Town-side

: Being a townie means you don't lie. Why would you cast suspicions on someone particularly when upon reveal, your fellow townies will take another look at your reads upon death ? Naming someone is creating WIFOM and townies don't want that.

VOTE: Chkflip I would like you to stop acting as if I were mentally challenged.

Then Otolia later admits he made a rage vote. Leading me to believe that chkflip is innocent, as Otolia's posts filled with rage seem to be scum directed at townie to me.
Later, noragar says he suspects chkflip.
Otolia seems to be attacking the people against him, but he ignored 334 when noragar said he'd likely change his vote to Otolia after his re-read. I find this rather odd.

Of course, as I had suspected, noragar comes back, with more evidence on chkflip. TS supports ragar's ideas, but considers voting for flip on D2.

Later gbevil votes for Otolia, then invites someone to take the hammer. Not soon after, I make the final vote. Day's over and Otolia reveals his role.

I'll break the deal for you : I'm scum.

Go partner, you can win this.

PS : I'll have A LOT to say about TS focus after game. See you there.

I'm almost certain TS is not scum after this post. Although it could be cover.

Post 364 directed towards me:

Curious as to why you think everybody who voted for Otolia is not scum (with that vote being the main or only reason provided), with one exception. I can see the reasoning behind saying that about TS starting the wagon, and to a lesser extent gbevil and forest for finishing the wagon. But it seems to me that chkflip and I were in basically equivalent positions on the wagon. Why do you say Chkflip would have jumped off the wagon if he were scum, but I wouldn't have?

TS makes some points about whether or not flip is town.
post 381 noragar takes the chance to vote for clip as scum regardless of what happened D1.

Yes, townies worry about finding scum. But how is it productive to look for scum in such a way that you appear to be scummier than the true scum are looking. What benefit is it to mislead the rest of the town into thinking you might be scum?

Anyone could make a post like that. Makes you look like you're trying to be pro-town.

My vote still stands. Sorry for being away.

@chkflip Hayscum is possible, since she may have made all of those posts to make people believe she was pro-town. She was giving both mafia reasoning and townie reasoning, so she could use either of the reasoning she supplied us with earlier to help her in the future. I think she's more likely to be town, though.

@TS: I don't care what you say, flip is town. With a mixture of vibes, and evidence from all of those posts I quoted, that's what I think. I'm keeping my vote.

P.S. I miss your old avatar XD

[forest_air]

But now my vote on noragar is serious because I have what I need to prove that noragar is scum and chkflip is town. I'll make a post on that next.

Is this part still to come? If the proof that noragar is scum and chkflip is town is in that last post somewhere, please highlight it because I must have missed it.

Chkflip may be town, but I'm becoming more convinced that the second scum needs to be one of {chkflip, forest, or CC}.

chkflip is town, a lot of the posts I quoted earlier seem pro-town.

A lot of the posts I made were to make you seem as scum. Often your votes corresponded with Otolia and even after he died they still remain the same. I kinda forgot to say that which made my post seem weak, right? I still find that very scummy.

Although I have forgotten about CC. How have you been? Any new suspicions?

[forest_air]

Also, fluff is a scumtell.

What are you referring to by that?

[forest_air]

Hey, welcome new people.

[forest_air]

I guess that means noragar needs two more votes to get lynched? Unless if I can't count of course >W>

Sorry I haven't been able to post lately. I have 3 exams coming up but I'll try to post more.

[forest_air]

Sorry, I've been busy lately and every time I come over here, some of the things you guys are saying are totally going over my head. What does IIoA mean, anyways? I looked it up on the wiki but I'm confused.

@Espeonage Other than the "scummy behaviour" I've been displaying as of late, do you have any other reason to vote for me? I'm curious about this. I understand how my large posting may seem abnormal, like I'm trying to start a bandwagon or something, but I don't really understand what you were getting at for the most part.

For the time being, my vote stays on noragar because my gut's telling me chkflip/muffin is town.

I'll do a reread of the last few pages and repost my analysis sometime tomorrow when I have more time.

[forest_air]

i don't think scum would lurk d1.
his d2 play looks town despite being brief

Actually, lurking d1 gives scum the opportunity to pretend to be town and say :"Yes I was suspecting so-and-so all along" on d2. But on the other hand, townies may not want to risk lynching a townie on d1 so they'll opt to not do much at all.

Lurking in general isn't really good for the town, but some people don't have as much time as others so that's also something to keep in mind. Some people as scum may post a lot to arouse suspicion and chaos and others may choose to post less often to avoid getting noticed.

Here are my reads as of now.

Town: Muffin, (gut feeling)
Leaning Town: TS, gbevil (neither of them have done anything scummy to me, seem to be pro-town enough)
Null: Haylen, Morthas (I'll do some isos later. Haylen seems to be more town I think, but I have very little idea on Morthas)
Leaning Scum: Espeonage, noragar (Seem the most scummy to me, but I've been suspicious of noragar for quite a while, so my vote stays...more on this later.)

[forest_air]

chaos and others may choose to post less often to avoid getting noticed.

lolwut? I have the second highest post count!

When I did I say that? And I'm not accusing you of lurking or anything, so it isn't that big a deal

[forest_air]

^Maybe it seems you're posting less because of all of the new people.

@Nobody Special : Please do a vote count as soon as you are able.

[forest_air]

Some people as scum may post a lot to arouse suspicion and chaos, and others may choose to post less often to avoid getting noticed.

lolwut? I have the second highest post count!

Okay, I was doing some rereading and just to let you know I meant chaos as in the word meaning "not in order." That's what I get for not using a comma.

I'm still suspicious of noragar and if a townie is lynched tonight, my vote goes back to him.

As was noted before me, Espeonage was lurking throughout most of d1. It seems odd to me how his post count has gone up a lot since d2 started. With only one mafia member left, that could cause major pressure for them to participate more to avoid being tagged as scum. This could be Espeonage's reason for being more active now.

No one was killed last night. Any chance there's a relation to Espeonage being away and the mafia choosing not to kill anyone? I think that possibility is likely.

This may sound newbish but I honestly cannot understand why the mafia would choose not to kill n1 in a newbie game. The only reasons I can see are they were either away or that any person they kill would cause major suspicion upon themselves. But the latter would probably apply to someone who was posting more.

He claims to be VT, and the chances of him being one are 5/6 out of 8. But by the way he's been playing the game makes me believe otherwise.

Unvote; Vote: Espeonage

Hammer's for the taking.

[forest_air]

I've been onsite, just not in this tread. No kill argument invalid.
Had to catch up in this game. Waited until the new day to do so.
We probably have a doc.

If you've been playing games on this site, but care not to catch up until the next day, then you are no better than scum. There are probably less people in this game than the others you are in, so wouldn't it take less time to catch up on and make a more simplified opinion than in a non-newbie game?

So 7 people out of 9 are town. One doc and 5/6 other people who are VTs and 1 person or nobody could be the jailkeeper or cop.

There's a very low chance that the mafia tried to kill the same person the doc tried to protect when there are 7 people for the mafia to choose from and 6 for the doc. Although it's possible, the fact that you weren't fully caught up until recently leads me to keep to my theory.

Unless if they both picked the obvious person to kill like gbevil or TS, then of course the chances would be higher.

[forest_air]

I've been onsite, just not in this tread. No kill argument invalid.
Had to catch up in this game. Waited until the new day to do so.

That was a point at the no kill argument. I have been active onsite.

You were active onsite. But you had to catch up on the game.

Your defence seems moot.

[forest_air]

ugh

I completely forgot we were playing the setup with a possible jailkeeper

how I hate that role

Lol.

[forest_air]

Let's let her do Espeonage. She'll be back soon since the weekend is almost over.

Just in case someone tries to hammer...

Unvote: Espeonage

[forest_air]

Thanks, Haylen.

Vote: Espeonage

[forest_air]

this is like Muffin's Christmas analogy but the presents are kept hidden until his Birthday in July

My birthday is in November. If someone decided to until after Christmas and give me my presents for the following birthday, I'd have to wait 11 months.

Noragar has been making some okay posts earlier on, he was posting more information first day than Espeonage did. Espeonage seems to be too defensive and just because he says he knows he's a townie doesn't mean it's true.

Espeonage, since you're close to being lynched, care to roleclaim?

[forest_air]

Espeonage, since you're close to being lynched, care to roleclaim?

espe already claimed VT

My mistake lol.

[forest_air]

Muffin's not scum.

[forest_air]

Chkflip seemed town to me, especially some of the things he said about me at the beginning of d1. The way he questions he asked gave off town reads for me.

And I have also been getting a townish read from Muffin, some of his posts may give off some questionable vibes, but for the most part he seems to be helping the town. I'm more willing to bet that he's town at this point based on what he's posted so far.

[forest_air]

I think it's about time someone was lynched.

I remember that story about the two women who were fighting over a baby, and the king decided to cut it in half so they could each have a part of it. One woman said she'd rather give it away then have that happen, which showed she cared about it more. She ended up getting the baby in the end.

We need to somehow apply that story to this situation, and quickly lynch the other person tomorrow.

[forest_air]

^I was mostly just kidding. Just at the rate things are going, Espeonage and noragar are the only candidates for getting lynched tonight.

But if someone came up with a good comparison that would be cool