Dr Who - Game over

[Tarhalindur]

*wvorp*

*wvorp*

*wvorp*

One blast from the past reporting in.

Vote: Zang

Why yes, that is a three-vote random bandwagon in the first 10 posts. Discuss.

[Tarhalindur]

FoS: Ant, Surye

???

[Tarhalindur]

FoS: Ant, Surye

???

Why "???" that but not this?

FoS: pappums rat

Because I didn't feel like quoting both FoS'es for a point (asking for the reason for the FoS'es) that was served by quoting only one.

Speaking of that: Nexus, why not let CES answer my question on his own?

I want to see Zang posts before I move off the L-2 wagon.

In other news: I'm of two minds about Hoppster, need to see more to judge. I want to see thoughts from bv310 pronto, and to a lesser extent CES.

PPE:

Interesting little exchange between Nexus and Hoppster. The FoS on pappums was odd to me, as I don't see not jumping on a wagon or counter wagon page 1 as scummy. I didn't explain this because I wanted to see how he reacted to a page 1 vote against him.

Since when is this townposting?

MFoS: Surye

[Tarhalindur]

2) Possibly. Cannot give a definite answer to a hypothetical situation.

Tarhalindur: I felt like giving my own opinion.

Hmm. I'm used to waiting to give your own opinion until after the person asked has a chance to respond, so as to not risk scum barning your reasoning.

Then again, this is CES we're talking about.

Note on why "???": Unexplained FoSes are unusual, and while the reason for the FoSes could be inferred I wanted to hear it from CES himself. (In part to check on another possibility - see the end of the post.)

PPE:

Interesting little exchange between Nexus and Hoppster. The FoS on pappums was odd to me, as I don't see not jumping on a wagon or counter wagon page 1 as scummy. I didn't explain this because I wanted to see how he reacted to a page 1 vote against him.

Since when is this townposting?

MFoS: Surye

I wish I could respond, but I don't see the problem that you obviously do :/

I don't get my gut reads sometimes, but I'm willing to trust them, especially this early into the game.

If I had to identify one thing about this post that feels wrong, it's that it's too passive - no push, no attempt to express your own views on Nexus or Hoppster. What the hell is the purpose of this post? More to the point: do you think Hoppster is scum? Nexus?

Also, since players are asking: the M is for major. Should have deployed the Hand, I guess.

CES-Why is it scummy not to vote on a RVS wagon? I can understand why it wouldn't be pro-town but that doesn't make it scummy.

Speaking of Zang, I hope he posts soon. I'd like to hear his reaction to a L-2 wagon so quick x

I'm shocked about how many people hate me, I'm angry that I missed RVS and im surprised that i can have such a big effect on the game without even posting but other than that I have no opinion on it. It was just an RVS wagon and as long as I'm not put up to L-1, I see nothing wrong with it.

I'm not really sure what your argument with Hoppster is about. I understand how it started but it seems like your just arguing for the sake of arguing.

I want to see Zang posts before I move off the L-2 wagon.

Why? How should my post affect your vote when you voted me for no reason? Also, what does the m in mfos stand for?

People hating you? Can't speak for the rest of the people voting you, but I wanted a large early bandwagon to force people to take sides early, and you happened to be a convenient target. The reason I wanted to wait for you to post was to see whether your reaction was going to be "WTF?" or "whatever". The answer, instead, appears to be "both of the above". Which is probably a town response, now that I think about it.

Unvote

Seeing a FIVE-vote wagon in a Mini game RVS was a bit of a surprise to me - I think there's got to be scum somewhere on that bandwagon. I'll keep it in mind for later.

Interesting

In what way?

In the general sense of the word.

The FoS on pappums was odd to me

But not on you or Ant?

If you read in order, you'd see my post was before he FoSed me. I realize this is a Dr Who Mafia, but I could not timetravel to see his FoS I'm afraid.

I didn't explain this because I wanted to see how he reacted to a page 1 vote against him.

How has he reacted? How did you expect him to react if you provided no reasoning - surely that could just be seen as a RVS vote (unless it was a RVS vote and I'm incorrect in thinking you voted CES because you thought "The FoS on pappums was odd")?

I wanted to see if he assumed it an RVS, or reacted defensively without real provocation.

Actually I am not sure. It's consistent with his first FoS (off wagon vote), so I actually like his reaction,

and don't see it as defensive as I thought I'd get.

You thought you'd get a defensive reaction: did you think he was scum (who, as such would react defensively) simply from his FoS? Or would a defensive reaction be one you would expect from town?

I didn't think he was town or scum honestly, but during the RVS (especially page 1), FoS, ping my scumdar a bit, and I wanted to see if I could get any more information. I certainly don't appreciate being called Stupid over it

Surye is still passive, still not taking positions on players, and still not showing signs of reads (or attempts to get reads) on other players. In short, he's not scumhunting, and he's also acting like scum trying to avoid being read.

Vote: Surye

Bandwagon ahoy!

---

CES: Are you claiming to be post restricted?

Hoppster and Nexus is probably a townie fight, with an outside chance of Hoppsterscum using questions to confuse the town. That's a very outside shot though.

Gut does not like bv310 and wants to see more posting out of him.

Everyone else: Get off the sidelines, please.

[Tarhalindur]

I'll respond to questions/etc. when I have a bit more time, but this needs to be dealt with now:

3 pages already. Hate being late to the party and for the record I would have voted on the Zang wagon. In fact I will

VOTE: Zang

Hello to all I have played with before, special wave to Nexus.

RVS Questions

1. How long have people been playing MS here?
2. What is the most commonly used scum tell that you have seen?
3. Favoroite Doctor Who Monster?

Yeah, let's just go for an RVS tactic that tends to favor scum, and include a question that helps scum both avoid being caught and frame scummy townies, I DON'T THINK.

Surye can wait for a bit.

Unvote, Vote: SnakePlissken

You have approximately one post to explain why the hell you would make this kind of post as town, let alone after the end of RVS as evidenced by the game posts last page. Go.

[Tarhalindur]

We're on page 2, I'm not being passive, I'm poking and prodding to see where people show scumminess. I commented on the Nexus and Hoppster interaction as I think there is something of note, but I don't have a read on the relationship between them. My reads will solidify and I will take a stronger stance when I have one.

Uh, WHAT? Prodding my foot - summary does not prodding make, nor does simply answering other people's questions.

-----

In other news: I'm of two minds about Hoppster, need to see more to judge.

Hoppster and Nexus is probably a townie fight, with an outside chance of Hoppsterscum using questions to confuse the town. That's a very outside shot though.

What helped you to judge?

A gut read of "Hoppster and Nexus interactions look like the town-on-town fights I saw back before I took a break from the site, such as the D1 wagons in Mafia 87 - they're probably both town", solidified since that post now that I see you clearly taking stances in addition to questions.

Anyways, I think all this dialogue between Surye and Hoppster is just a bunch of meaningless noise, and the wagons were not useful at all other than clumsily getting us out of RVS.

Meaningless noise? Did it not help further any reads on either of us?

What about the dialogue between Nexus and I?

Is that why you didn't vote on either of the wagons - they were too 'clumsy' for your liking?

What exactly do you want to get or are you looking to get out of your GMan vote?


My gut is telling me this is a scum-post where pappums-scum has read Nexus' posts about people not commenting on wagons and pappums-scum resultingly felt it necessary to post some comment on the wagons. The opinion of "the wagons were clumsy" just seems really... feigned.

How did I not notice that post earlier? :goodposting:

-----

Seeing a FIVE-vote wagon in a Mini game RVS was a bit of a surprise to me - I think there's got to be scum somewhere on that bandwagon. I'll keep it in mind for later.

That only holds true if Zang is Town. Do you think he is?

Uh, that holds true REGARDLESS of whether Zang is town - seriously, RVS is a great time to catch scum distancing from each other. The speed at which votes four and five were placed on him, however, suggests that Zang is town, and is a major reason why I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

1. What do you think of Zang’s “I’ve got no opinion” statement?
2. You were the third vote on said five person wagon. Ostensibly you know you are Town. What was your reasoning for further pushing the wagon?

1) Missed it in my original post. It's scummy, but I could see it coming from a misplaying Townie.
2) You know, I could have sworn I'd already answered this question... ah yes...

Can't speak for the rest of the people voting you, but I wanted a large early bandwagon to force people to take sides early, and you happened to be a convenient target.

-----

Hoppster is incredibly annoying to read. He constant refrain of “What reaction did you expect to get” is rather useless when he’s pre-empted the actual reactions from some players (Zang for example) with his questions. He’s peppered Nexus with a number of hypothetical questions that don’t serve any serious scum-hunting (“Would you put Zang at L-2 if he was at L-3?’) but more as a means to produce as “Gotcha, inconsistency” attack.

I agree with this statement. All Hoppster's questions thus far have been rather unnecessary and/or forced, and IMO it kind of sounds like he is trying to sound like he has a lot to say rather than actually having a lot to say.

Uh, really now? Barning with reasoning that has become craplogic given Hoppster's page 3 posts? Yeah no.

^ Because I'm RVS'ing GMan, and will continue to do so until I am ready to leave RVS.

RVS is not some separate part of the game that is independent from the rest. The notion of RVS is just the name we give to that awkward getting things rolling portion of the game.

That you want to cling to a vote that has no game relevant meaning in your eyes and not vote someone you specifically called scummy is very suspect.

Yes, I can understand why you would think that. I let my frustration with another game spill into this one and was pissed that this game took off so fast with the Hoppster/Surye dialogue. I did find Hoppster somewhat suspicious, but I wasnt going to let him detract from my fun in RVS. Once GMan replies in thread, I probably will vote for someone I find scummy, but not until then. :stubborn:

All this talk about inspecting the wagons for scum is bullshit. It's RVS, people can claim any reason they want for voting someone in RVS, and no one would be any the wiser as to who is who unless someone makes a big dumb mistake, which probably isnt going to happen when the people in question are experienced players. That kind of scumhunting technique is better suited for looking into newer players.

Since GMan isnt here, I'm going to go ahead and

Unvote
Vote: Hoppster

for making more out of this bullshit than what is reasonably concievable, and because his dialogue with Surye on his end rang hollow to me.

Minor FOS

on MoI for reading too damn far into RVS votes.

1) Uh, reasoning during RVS may not be valuable, but vote count analysis during RVS certainly is.
2) Please point out examples of Hoppster "making more out of this bullshit than what is reasonable conceivable" and where "his dialogue with Surye on his end rang hollow". I'm not seeing it. I AM seeing scum trying to discredit a strong townie.

---

I am also not feeling this wagon on Surye yet either. He seems to passive? Is it because he is just answering questions directed at him and not retorting with questions back?

This just happened in my other ongoing game...If I find out what it means, I will let you know

How does something going on in a DIFFERENT game have any relevance to the quick wagon on Zang.

Because I was trying to make a witty comment. A quick wagon built up on another guy in another ongoing game of mine. It made me think of that.

1) No, it's because he's not doing anything to catch scum.
2) "I saw a similar quickwagon in another game I was in, so by commenting on it here I'm being witty." Yeah, that doesn't add up to me.
3) You say that you're not feeling the Surye wagon "yet". Why "yet"? I don't see pro-town reasoning for that "yet".

----

This is pinging my scumdar a little bit. Zang has acknowledged the wagon on him, but then he doesn't pay any attention to who is on it. I would expect town to be looking more carefully at the people on the bandwagon, whereas scum would just look more generally at the number of people on the wagon.

Ok, I forgot CES was on my wagon. But why should I pay attention to it? Even more so, how am I supposed to pay attention to it? It's just an RVS wagon. I don't even see how I'm paying attention to the number of people on it. As long as it doesn't get up to L-1 and everybody unvotes then I have no opinion on it.

3. You have no opinion on the wagon? If I was Town and arrived to find a L-2 wagon on me Page 2 I’d certainly have an opinion of some sort.

Why should I have an opinion on it? What sort of opinion am I supposed to have on it? IT WAS JUST RVS! It was reasonless, it gives me no insight on who is scum and who isn't and it was completely random.

There should be at least one scumbag on the RVS wagon on you, based on the speed of the wagon - and on the raw probabilities, for that matter. In fact, with that kind of wagon speed there is a decent chance of TWO scumbags on the wagon. If you're town, why not try to figure out who it is?

It’s a throwback to ooba’s Smalltown Stardust Mafia. Jack and I got into a heated battle regarding some non-sense attack by him very early. Zang cruised in and called it a Town versus Town conflict. I very much see people calling early game interactions T v T without significant play to base it on as fairly effective scum-tell. I call it my Zang Tell because he’s the one who made it stand out in my mind.

In that game, it was a town vs town battle though and my alignment had very little to do with me calling it town vs town.

How much experience had you had with town vs. town squabbles D1 before that game? See, the reason I was willing to call Hoppster vs. Nexus town vs. town is because I've made a point of trying to identify them early after watching them derail townies (including myself) a few times (Mafia 87 D1 and D2 comes to mind).

Feel free to disagree. You are still dead wrong. RVS is as valid a part of the game as any other. Scum have and will continue to be caught during RVS.

Any scum lynched because of the RVS is either because of chance or their stupidity.

X

The first large wagon of the game is often the most informative wagon in the entire game.

Also, Zang: Who do you think is scum and why? It's four pages into the game, after the RVS, and I haven't seen any posts from you about that rather important subject.

-----

Jury's out on iamausername, but post 72 looks more like what I remember of iam-town than I saw earlier in the thread.

In other news, where the hell is bv310?

Mod: Vote Count please

[Tarhalindur]

In other news, where the hell is bv310?

A good question.

Even better question -

Where in the hell is GMan?

Wait, GMan is a player in the game, isn't he? And it's been 72 hours since game start, and I don't think he's V/LA...

Mod: Please prod GMan

(I still don't care quite as much as I do about bv310, but that's because bv310's random stage posts do NOT impress me. Top candidate for scum on the Zang RVS wagon.)

We're on page 2, I'm not being passive, I'm poking and prodding to see where people show scumminess. I commented on the Nexus and Hoppster interaction as I think there is something of note, but I don't have a read on the relationship between them. My reads will solidify and I will take a stronger stance when I have one.

Uh, WHAT? Prodding my foot - summary does not prodding make, nor does simply answering other people's questions.

And funny, I seemed to get reaction. Hmmm.

So you're claiming that you were deliberately acted scummy in order to draw reactions?

More to the point, who do you think is scum right now?

[Tarhalindur]

I like Zang's defense in #64 about not really caring about his wagon.
Should he have honestly been scared about being lynched on page 1/2? I think some people here are trying to force things to be a bit more serious than they are supposed to be.

No, but the question is, should Zang have been interested in who was on his wagon given its speed and size?

My current thought is that the answer to that question is yes, but I can see townZang not coming to that conclusion.

1. You are saying that the first five people to post and vote in this game just happen to randomly select you? Tar’s post alone where he RVS voted you and prompted discussion of that fact should clearly indicate there was more to it than complete randomness … Tar had clear intent to drive discussion.

I disagree with this. Why couldn't it be a random spur of the moment wagon?
And I think you are building up Tar's post WAYYY to much. His post was the third post of the game as well as the third vote on Zang. What did he want to discuss? Also, are you admitting that there was more to it than complete randomness? That would indicate that you,

narwhal

CES, and Tar had something planned. What is up with that?

Why yes, that is a three-vote random bandwagon in the first 10 posts

Can't speak for the rest of the people voting you, but I wanted a large early bandwagon to force people to take sides early, and you happened to be a convenient target.

I think t

I am also not feeling this wagon on Surye

yet

either.

Unvote

VOTE: Ant_to_the_max

I don't get it. You answered the question that was right after that sentence before you put this. But yet you still ripped this out of context to have a reason to vote me =/

I didn't fully understand what was being said about him and wanted a more descriptive reason. If I liked it, I might have joined the wagon. If not, I wouldn't have.

And from your answer, I don't think it was a good case. Imo it is null unless he never follows through or does something.

Underlined for emphasis.

The problem, Ant, is that there is nothing in the originally quoted post - or this post, in fact - to indicate that you were considering joining the wagon

because you thought he is scum

, and everything to suggest that you're scum who's waiting to see if a bandwagon develops on Surye before piling on.

Question is, is this because you are looking for a vulnerable townie or because you don't want to bus?

Seeing a FIVE-vote wagon in a Mini game RVS was a bit of a surprise to me - I think there's got to be scum somewhere on that bandwagon. I'll keep it in mind for later.

That only holds true if Zang is Town. Do you think he is?

Uh, that holds true REGARDLESS of whether Zang is town - seriously, RVS is a great time to catch scum distancing from each other. The speed at which votes four and five were placed on him, however, suggests that Zang is town, and is a major reason why I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Hmm didn't see this one till Tar actually quoted it. That is interesting that Magna writes of the possibility of scum being on the Zang wagon if Zang flips scum. Covering tracks if Zang actually flips scum here?

VOTE: MagnaofIllusion

Next scummiest person on that wagon could be bv310. Vote to get the wagon going, but then a side note "oh look, a counter-wagon for scum mates to join because joining the Zang one at this point would look really bad..."
But of course that is only going off 2 posts

Bringing up bv310 only after - and immediately after - I comment that I think he's most likely to be scum on the Zang wagon? Something is amiss here. And something about the way you phrased your reasoning for the MoI vote bugs me on a subconscious level.

Caught up now, and this is the biggest offender atm.

PPE:

Interesting little exchange between Nexus and Hoppster. The FoS on pappums was odd to me, as I don't see not jumping on a wagon or counter wagon page 1 as scummy. I didn't explain this because I wanted to see how he reacted to a page 1 vote against him.

Since when is this townposting?

MFoS: Surye

I wish I could respond, but I don't see the problem that you obviously do :/

unvote, vote: Surye

You really don't see the problem here?

Honourable mention of Scumminess goes to Snake, for completely ignoring the building cases and instead trying to reboot RVS.

Something feels amiss about this vote.

Let me mull.

That’s a pure straw-man. I am hardly picking these players out at random. The fact that the first five votes of the game just fell on you isn’t random behavior.

I don't see how that's a strawman. You are picking randomly. Your picking the first five people to post, anybody else could have posted in their place and you would be talking about them instead. The fact that the votes fell on my is random behavior. The first person to post could have just as easily picked somebody else to vote for.

There should be at least one scumbag on the RVS wagon on you, based on the speed of the wagon - and on the raw probabilities, for that matter. In fact, with that kind of wagon speed there is a decent chance of TWO scumbags on the wagon. If you're town, why not try to figure out who it is?

Like I have already said, I agree that there is most likely scum on it, but any attempt I make to find scum, if I do find scum then it would be mostly due to chance. Although, if there was something that was obviously scummy then I would vote for them.

Why not push one of them to see if they would do something scummy?

-----

CES's lack of reasoning makes Tarhalindur a sad panda.

Iamausername is... I'm still working that one out.

[Tarhalindur]

CES's lack of reasoning makes Tarhalindur a sad panda.

I'm reasoning plenty, just fyi.

Reasoning is like Schroedinger's Cat; you can't be sure it's there until you've seen it posted in the thread. Do get on that.

Hmm didn't see this one till Tar actually quoted it. That is interesting that Magna writes of the possibility of scum being on the Zang wagon if Zang flips scum. Covering tracks if Zang actually flips scum here?

VOTE: MagnaofIllusion

...

So shouldn't you be voting Zang?

UNVOTE: SnakePlissken
VOTE: Ant

Your reason for voting MoI is, quite literally, "lol this is suspicious if Zang is scum".

Nice catch.

CES's lack of reasoning makes Tarhalindur a sad panda.

A sad and suspicious panda?

Vaguely, but there are bigger fish to fry. Sadly, I don't think I can afford to use my preferred solution to players like him on him. I need that shot elsewhere.

-----

Okay, screw this. This game is going nowhere.

Two things of importance:

1) When I was last actively playing (I'm just back from about a year's break), I noticed that my scumhunting was exceptionally bad in situations where I couldn't rely on setup analysis. In an effort to overcome this, I am experimenting with a new scumhunting technique this game (in conjunction with some of my more conventional methods). You've seen some signs of it already, since a couple of my actions have been affected by it (including the Zang RVS wagon). I don't particularly feel like revealing exactly what that method is at this time (let's not let scum know what not to do, eh?), but I will do so later.

2) This should be self-explanatory.

Kill: Zang

Vote: Ant_to_the_Max

FoS: Surye, bv310, pappums_rat

That should work despite lack of unvote, since kill should reset the vote count.

As tempted as I was to get rid of one of the players FoS'ed/voted for above - or CES, whose lack of reasoning in thread is going to be a pain endgame and is thus an ideal vig candidate - I don't think I can afford not to nuke Zang. It'll help us figure out several other alignments, and I don't particularly want Zang (who is either scum or VI) alive at endgame anyways.

Note to self: If CES is scum he's likely Godfather given the way he's playing.

[Tarhalindur]

If you actually read the posts you'll see I'm not being aggressive at all.

Read the thread before you comment, Snake.

And then vote Surye.

This.

Anyway, Tar, what's up with the fake DK?

Why assume a fake daykill instead of a daykill that was stopped by something (bulletproof shield or the like)?

[Tarhalindur]

Because, in my experience, a fake-DK gambit is much more common than an actual daykill and a Bulletproof.

Hmm, fake-daykill must have become more common recently. Darn.

Nope, that's not why.

Then what is? I don't see any reasons with your vote.

*shrug* It's a meaningful distinction, whether you like it or not.

There may be a distinction for you but there is no distinction at all for me. How do I know if you even have reasoning or if you're scum voting randomly?

Kill: Zang

Vote: Ant_to_the_Max

FoS: Surye, bv310, pappums_rat

Really?

This has been so overused that it becomes almost obvious that it's a fake day kill gambit when you post it

. What did you hope to gain from this?

0) To get people to actually, you know, POST.
1) An off chance that, if you were VI (or enterprising scum), you might respond with a "bah, go team" post.
2) A set of reactions pursuant to the scumhunting method mentioned in the fake daykill post, most importantly one that I was ALSO looking for when I made the third-vote RVS wagon. That tell is tied to something involving how I played the daykill gambit; I will not elaborate further at this time. Nobody has clearly dropped it yet.

Now, about that underlined section: Please identify all games you know of where a fake daykill gambit was tried. NOW.

[quote="Zang"}

Why assume a fake daykill instead of a daykill that was stopped by something (bulletproof shield or the like)?

I know if I'm bulletproof or not. Now are you going to answer why you used a fake daykill gambit?[/quote]

Do you think I am scum? Why?

[Tarhalindur]

Because, in my experience, a fake-DK gambit is much more common than an actual daykill and a Bulletproof.

Hmm, fake-daykill must have become more common recently. Darn.

It may not be more common, I just play with Fate a lot.

Haven't played with Fate IIRC (site break) and I've just spent too much time looking through Zang stuff to go looking for Fate-bv meta right yet. I'll get to that ASAP. BV, got any handy links?

0) To get people to actually, you know, POST.
1) An off chance that, if you were VI (or enterprising scum), you might respond with a "bah, go team" post.
2) A set of reactions pursuant to the scumhunting method mentioned in the fake daykill post, most importantly one that I was ALSO looking for when I made the third-vote RVS wagon. That tell is tied to something involving how I played the daykill gambit; I will not elaborate further at this time. Nobody has clearly dropped it yet.

Now, about that underlined section: Please identify all games you know of where a fake daykill gambit was tried. NOW.

0. Ok, I'm fine with getting people to post but there are other ways.
1. Did you think I was a VI?
2. I'm not sure what tell your looking for so I'll hold off on questioning you further until you reveal what it is.

The first time I saw the gambit was here- 
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13811
Coincidentally, Magna was also in that game.
A very similar variant of the gambit was used here-
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13693
It was also used here-
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 91&start=0
I think theres another game that I saw it in but I don't remember the name. 

How many times have I been in with a real day kill? 0

1) Still think so (mostly based on posting style and reactions to pressure, I think), with the caveat that one can be a Village Idiot and still be scum.

Seeing multiple linked games you were in where a fake daykill gambit was tried alleviates some of my suspicions (it *could* just be a townie who's seen it before). I still don't trust the reaction.

Useful links, those. Interestingly, you DID drop a version of the tell I was looking for in one of the linked games - but not all, and not in the one where you were scum.

Do you think I am scum? Why?

I am suspicious of you but I don't see what that has to do with what you quoted. 

If you had answered no without a damn good reason, you WOULD be getting lynched today for being a scummy, scummy insincere-scumhunting scumbag. That's the kind of tone shift I associate with seeing something very scummy that needs to be answered now (see also: that request for completed games with daykill gambits up above).

In fact, why are you still voting CES?

Kill: Zang

Vote: Ant_to_the_Max

FoS: Surye, bv310, pappums_rat

Really? This has been so overused that it becomes almost obvious that it's a fake day kill gambit when you post it. What did you hope to gain from this?

Uhh, not liking this reaction at all.

Can't quite put my finger on it but my gut is

POSITIVELY SCREAMING

to me that this is a scum reaction to an apparent DK-gambit on himself.

Feels a bit like scum gleefully mocking somebody who fake DK'd him.

It's not just you - that sort of gut read is EXACTLY why I asked Zang for an immediate list of past games with DK gambits.

-----

Okay, there's too many scummy players (Zang, pappums, bv, Snake, Ant, Surye) and not enough players pushing them. We need to pool forces sometime soon, and I might as well start the trend. That means off the Ant wagon for now.

Unvote, Vote: Surye

Want to see at least one more post from Zang before I make any hard judgments on him, same for BV.

Rufflig is managing to give me town and scum gut reads at the same time, which at the moment basically means that he reads town.

BV/Surye/Snake/CES/Zang: Cases on top suspects with reasoning in thread, please.

[Tarhalindur]

Uhh, not liking this reaction at all.

Can't quite put my finger on it but my gut is POSITIVELY SCREAMING to me that this is a scum reaction to an apparent DK-gambit on himself.

Feels a bit like scum gleefully mocking somebody who fake DK'd him.

It wasn't an apparent fake day kill gambit, it was proven that it was a fake day kill gambit when the mod posted. Also why do you think that I'm scum gleefully mocking someone who fake day killed me instead of town gleefully mocking someone who fake day killed me.

I'll give my answer to this question (since I have the same read) once Hoppster replies.

1) Still think so (mostly based on posting style and reactions to pressure, I think), with the caveat that one can be a Village Idiot and still be scum.

How can a village idiot be scum if village is the same thing as town? Besides the way you worded it made it seem that you thought village idiot was different than scum. 

Last I checked, village idiot meant a weak player in general. They're more likely to be town (due to role assignment probability if nothing else), but I've seen VI-scum before.

Also, I didn't say that village idiot was different from scum, I said that village idiot was different from ENTERPRISING scum (i.e, scum smart enough to drop a fake well-written "bah, go town" post in response to the fake daykill). There's a difference.

In fact, why are you still voting CES?

Extreme lack of content, not posting his reasoning for his votes and ignoring half of the thread.[/quote]

Fair enough.

No it wasn't. I never post reads on day 1. At this rate of posting you'll be lucky to get anything on Day 2 as well. And the aggressiveness is starting to seep out. I can feel your anger.

Yes you do post reads on D1, you've just made your read on Nexus quite obvious. Do explain.

I'll comment more on Snake once this is answered.

Okay, there's too many scummy players (Zang, pappums, bv, Snake, Ant, Surye) and not enough players pushing them. We need to pool forces sometime soon, and I might as well start the trend. That means off the Ant wagon for now.

Unvote, Vote: Surye

Quick! How many votes did Ant and Surye each have before you did this? No cheating!

Ant: Two counting self, due to Hoppster unvote.
Surye: Two not counting self, unless I missed a vote somewhere.

[Tarhalindur]

I don't like leaving players at L-1 with more than 10 players alive, especially when the player in question went from L-3 to L-1 in 30 minutes and a couple of scummy players (especially pappums) could just come and hammer.

Also, I'm not comfortable seeing Surye hang without making him post a few more reads (or at least seeing him refuse to do so).

Unvote, Vote: bv310

- Still not comfortable with him. I'll shift back to Surye if needed after he responds to pressure and/or claims.

[Tarhalindur]

A bit busy at the moment, so I'll just answer this one for now.

@Tar

– I don’t see that you answered the following question from Zang in post 152. If you have please say so and I re-dig through your ISO. If not please answer it –

It still seemed to me that you implied that VI was town. As you said enterprising scum would say "bah, go town" to seem like town but it seemed to me like you thought that a VI would be the actual townie that says "bah, go town".

Not my fault that he's drawing an inference that's not there.

Well, mostly not my fault. I did consider it more probable prior to the fake-daykill that Zang would drop a "bah, go town" or similar than a "bah, go scum", as I had a weak town read on Zang at the time (tempered by a nagging suspicion about his reaction to my first vote despite logic telling me it's a town response, but the rest of the evidence was in his favor). However, this was independent of my read on him as VI (if I didn't think there was a chance he would fall for it, I wouldn't have done it - again, I've been offsite for the better part of a year and fairly inactive as a player for about half a year before that, so the rise of fake daykills was news to me - I've never seen one before). Moreover, the reaction I saw in response to the fakekill is still bugging me (Hoppster's points, plus the problem that Zang's tone after the fakekill does not match his lack of vote for me).

Currently, my logical analysis says Zang is town and my gut read says he's scum.

[Tarhalindur]

Add that to his terrible "MoI did something that looks suspicious if Zang flips scum, Vote: MoI" thing, and I just don't get why everyone else seems to be fine with letting him fly under the radar here.

Im confused. Who are you talking about here? I thought you were talking about Hoppster but you just said that he was town. If you don't like how they're flying under the radar then why don't you vote for them? I'm also still confused about you vote on Surye.

Well, mostly not my fault. I did consider it more probable prior to the fake-daykill that Zang would drop a "bah, go town" or similar than a "bah, go scum", as I had a weak town read on Zang at the time

I'm not sure what they do on what other site you go to but do you even see people saying "bah, go town" or "bah, go scum" when they actually are lynched or even normally daykilled?

the problem that Zang's tone after the fakekill does not match his lack of vote for me).

There are a lot scummier people than you.

But you didn't simply ask Tar why he did that ("Why did you do that, Tar?").

I guess it is more like you said but I never really meant to mock him.

@ Zang + iam: Thoughts on pappums?

Currently none but I'll probably go back and look over him later.

I only sheeped onto Suyre's vote as I was trying to get some more info and push us into Day 2 where some reasonable evidence would be before us and I would have more to work with other than the fact that Nexus is scum.

There is plenty of reasonable evidence that we already have, if not for you then at least for everybody else. Just because you're too lazy to scum hunt without somebody being dead does not mean that you should try to randomly lynch someone just because they're at L-2.

@Hoppster For me in both your examples about Nexus agression are one and the same Nexs Agression= Nexus Scum. This may look like Im tunelling but hey I've seen the pattern before from him. For examples you would need to travel offsite to the UKFF and locate a few of the scum games there.

Why don't you find one of the games and post the link here? Also, if he was aggressive in that game because it was off-site, have you looked at any of his scum games on mafiascum? Is he just as aggressive in thoose?

Calling it now.

Scum: Snake, Ant, Zang

Why exactly am I scum? Even Ant and snake, why are they scum?

In summing up, CES is providing even less content than I am not bothering to scum hunt, sailing along looking like he's active without actually doig anything other than throwing FOS's & Votes around hoping to get on the right Lynch. This really bothers me. Looking back over this I can't beleive that he is actually getting away without actually provising any content for his votes. I have on NexuScum, although I sheeped onto Suyre to get the game moving a bit which in hindsight was too clever or pro town I can assure you I am town.

While I agree with your case on CES. You're just as bad. It's page 9 and this is pretty much your first attempt to scumhunt. Also, providing little content and not bothering to scum hunt are the same thing.

I would support a pappums wagon. CES I’m going to have to see VC Analysis to make a solid judgement on his alignment.

What do you think of CES? Why do you need a VC analysis? How would that help?

Okay, now THIS looks like Zang townposting - looks like scumhunting to me. I'm finally convinced that Zang is not a good D1 lynch choice (he may still be scum, but I have my doubts, and he's considerably more likely to be town than several other players at any rate.

----

RE still voting: unvote was in my big post that didn't go through and I forgot about it.
UNVOTE:

RE repost: it could have been likely that I hit post, and the screen came up with the "oh, someone else has posted" screen and that tab might have still been open on my computer. If not, I can go find all the posts I commented on. As for not right then, I was at a robotics competition at the time. That is why I have not been near an actual computer for a while now.

RE not voting snake: my vote would have put him at L-1. I didn't want to do that. There was more to discuss in this day and I don't want to end this day prematurely. We have a month deadline.

Yeah, no. Not buying the "more to discuss". Note to self: If Snake is scum Ant is a likely buddy.

Anybody else up for an Ant lynch?

----

LOL Hoppster you are so full of shit it is unbelievable. You have completely ignored my points on Snake and instead twisted my reasoning for voting him into some bullshit "case" on me. IIRC you have not commented on Snake's L-1 vote on Surye either. And as far as the "inconsistency" in my ISO you mentioned before, that was solely because of my irritation that there was two huge wagons and a shitload of what I considered unnecessary back and forth between yourself and Surye and Nexus. (Nothing of value was gained because of it.) I then afterwards decided to stop being a pissy little bitch and joined the game properly.

I've seen this style of play before (read UROE/killa seven/TVOD in the linked game). Thanks for claiming scum.

Anyone else up for a pappums lynch?

----

Oooo. Lookie lookie Im at L-2. Let's clear a few things up. I followed from the previous vote count thinking Suyre was at L-1 with my vote, so if my info was incorrect ah well not my fault and certainly not scummy or else I would have waitied for the hammer vote would I have not? Much like my number one suspect did. I only sheeped onto Suyre's vote as I was trying to get some more info and push us into Day 2 where some reasonable evidence would be before us and I would have more to work with other than the fact that Nexus is scum.

Unvote

VOTE: Nexus

@Hoppster For me in both your examples about Nexus agression are one and the same Nexs Agression= Nexus Scum. This may look like Im tunelling but hey I've seen the pattern before from him. For examples you would need to travel offsite to the UKFF and locate a few of the scum games there.

Im watching and waiting. Proof will be in the lynching. Oh and Username, why do you think Hoppster is flying under th radar and everyone is ignoring him?

I just had a quick look back at Cogito Ergo Sum posts. My results are as follows:

#4 - RVS vote
#10 - Disappointed Zang wasn't quick lynched in RVS
#13 - FOS's pappums rat with no explination
#16 - FOS's Ant & Suyre again with no explination
#22 - Fluff post
#42 - ^scum on Zang again no backup of reasoning
#52 - No PR - again no rhyme or reason to this comment
#62 - Answers my RVS questions
#65 - Response with no content to Zang & Magna about a different game
#67 - Continues with a pointless argument with Zang
#74 - Tries to push the lynch back around onto Zang
#76 - Makes light of trying to lynch Zang
#84 - Says he likes to get people lynched from Day 1 but doesn't say he doesn't do RVS.
#89 -= Votes for me after I go V/LA for the weekend with no reasoning
#94 - Claims reasoning for his votes are FYI
#97 - Fluff
#106 - More Fluff
#108 - Vot hops onto Ant with no reason
#119 - Absolute Nonsense post dressed up as having a point. Has none and again talks about other games.
#126 - Question marks to my Screwdriver comment
#141 - Votes for me once more with no reason
#154 - Fluff and asks me 5 pages on why I asked question 2 in RVS...
#175 - Corrects Mod votecount
#184 - Fluff response to NexusScum
#188 - Corrects MoI's FOS on NexusScum
#211 - Tries to correct my deliberate grammar change i.e. Fluff
#213 - Calls myself, ANt & Zang as the scum team without any reasoning.

In summing up, CES is providing even less content than I am not bothering to scum hunt, sailing along looking like he's active without actually doig anything other than throwing FOS's & Votes around hoping to get on the right Lynch. This really bothers me. Looking back over this I can't beleive that he is actually getting away without actually provising any content for his votes. I have on NexuScum, although I sheeped onto Suyre to get the game moving a bit which in hindsight was too clever or pro town I can assure you I am town.

At least NexusScum is doing stuff. So for now, until proven otherwise

Unvote

VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum[/b]

Oh wait, Ant and pappums will have to wait, because we have scumbag number 3 over here.

Seriously, Snake's play looks like a bad case of "look over there while I escape until tomorrow".

Snake, while I am not going to vote you yet (putting players to L-1 without a claim with 10 or more players alive is bad, I don't care what modern meta says), but I AM indicating intent to vote. Claim or die.

Unvote, HoS: SnakePlissken

----

DAY ONE LYNCH POOL, LEAST TO MOST PREFERRED:
Surye (would be higher if not for nagging suspicions that his wagon is a scum-driven alternative to Snake)
bv310 (lurking, and IIRC he's been on site so it's likely of the active sort - why the HELL is he still under the radar?)
Snake (RQS, bad defense)
Ant_to_the_max ("yet", sheeping with timing of bv310 suspicion, "more to discuss")
pappums rat (playing like bad scum, bad Hoppster "case")

Zang used to be on the list (below Surye), but has moved off after his posts last page.

I'm willing to help lynch any of these scummy players. I'm on Snake right now since his wagon is the largest and his defense is bad.

[Tarhalindur]

First thoughts on Snake claim:

- Tenth Doctor as vanilla claim is odd.
- Mafia in danger of lynch claiming vanilla townie is odder, though admittedly nice WIFOM fodder.
- That "hey, won't be outing a PR" comment is usually a VT tell.

Let me mull.

[Tarhalindur]

Also, bv310 - I see you posting over in GD. Why aren't you posting here?

[Tarhalindur]

UNVOTE:
It would be difficult to believe that the Doctor wouldn't be in this game. -- it is called Doctor Who after all. More specifically: Return of the Time Lords -- the flavor was pulled directly from David Tennant's last story arc as the Doctor "The End of Time, Part One". Barring a counter-claim, I believe Snake. I don't see what is so difficult about this.

FoS: Tarhalindur, MoI, Nexus, Zang

Great - just go ahead and trash a lot of my town reads. Thanks a lot.

Much as I'd like to vote pappums again, his v/la would prove troublesome. bv310's continued absence after being prodded ... it's hard to pressure someone who isn't sitting in his seat at the table. Though, at this rate, bv310 is on track to getting replaced. I'll need short while to mull who to vote for now.

Safeclaim is possible, and Doctor-scum is possible (not likely, but possible).

That said, vanilla claim is too risky for a scumbag (especially on a character that is begging for a power role) and that name claim *is* extremely solid. I'll toss Snake into the "not lynching D1" pile.

Vote: Ant_to_the_Max

(all other top suspects are V/LA with the exception of Surye whose reaction here looks fairly town)

Note to self: Given that reaction to the Snake claim, Snake might just be right about Nexus after all.

PPE:

Spelling = scum these days does it Nexus? To those suggesting that I may have been given a fake PM by the mod are the ones most in possession of one as most town wouldn't even consider that as a first response to a VT claim.

For my money. Scum Team - NexusScum, Zang & MoI

Uh, no. Tenth Doctor as scum or safeclaim passes the "What Would Tarhalindur Do?" test - that is to say, moderators looking to subvert obvious name->alignment associations might give scum exclusive access to the name.

Doesn't matter, the claim overall is still solid enough to move you off the lynch candidate list for today.

[Tarhalindur]

I don't understand why a Vanilla Town claim with the flavour bit of allons-y spelt wrong has caused you all to panic and think he isn't lying.

I will re read the thread soon and see if anyone is scummier.

... You're not trying to determine whether or not the claim is true, you just want Snake lynched.

That's not town motivation.

Anyone else up for a Nexus lynch?

Unvote, Vote: Nexus

(Will switch back to Ant tomorrow if nobody's with me.)

Note to self: Gut is telling me something is up with iamausername. I should probably look into that.

[Tarhalindur]

What. No. Vanilla claim isn't that risky for scum.

Most scum would rather claim Vanilla Town than a PR, because the risks of a PR ccing are too high.

I don't put much stay in "All Doctors must be PRs" and stuff like that, because flavour in general is just there to give the game some extra pizzazz.

Whatever. I said I was seeing if there was anyone scummier when I did a re read, so I don't know how that's me only trying to get Snake lynched. I don't believe his claim, but that's about it. It's certainly not enough to make me unvote until I've re-read.

X

Unless something has seriously changed in site meta since summer of last year, claiming VT under heavy suspicion tends to get the VT claimer lynched (since the point of asking for claim is to make sure the player isn't a provable role) - hell, I'd still be voting Snake (with some misgivings) if not for the strength of the name claim. That's pretty seriously risky for scum.

Also, that explanation is even scummier than the first sentence of the post I just quoted (and I should have pointed it out in my last post - I blame posting at 2 in the morning). If you don't believe his claim, it follows that you think he is scum. However, you then say that you're going to reread to see if there's anyone scummier.

This does not follow.

Townies should NEVER lie when claiming without a damn good reason, and it's a risky play even then. If you think that Snake is lying about his claim, then YOU THINK THAT HE IS LYING SCUM. I find it EXTREMELY difficult to believe that you actually think that you might find a player who is scummier than a player who you clearly believe is LYING about his claim. I could see it if you had concluded that a Snake lynch was no longer feasible and were switching to a second preference, but I don't see any evidence of such a thought process here, and I don't think it's supported by the game state at any rate.

No, the reason that you are looking for "anyone scummier" is because you are SCUM who doesn't actually care whether a player is scummy so long as they aren't on your team.

DIE SCUM DIE.

[Tarhalindur]

I believe he is. The doctor is so great because he has no super powers. He can unlock doors. It's all in his intellect and charisma, the tools of a VT.

Lets get into this then … who in the Dr. Who universe would you expect to be anything BUT VT then? Certainly none of his companions are no more inherently ‘powerful’ than the Doctor. Aside from Enemies you don’t have many Superhuman participants to draw from.

Outguessing the Mod is at best bad, bad Town play.

First part of this post is good.

Second part is very, very bad. Outguessing the Mod is a perfectly viable tactic - hell, it's one of the main points of asking for a claim in the first place. You just have to be good at it.

Also, thoughts on Nexus please.

Spelling = scum these days does it Nexus? To those suggesting that I may have been given a fake PM by the mod are the ones most in possession of one as most town wouldn't even consider that as a first response to a VT claim.

For my money. Scum Team - NexusScum, Zang & MoI

Nexus does have a point about the spelling. If the word was in your role PM then it should have been spelled correctly. Also why would suggesting that you have a fake role PM make me scum? You're just calling everyone that doesn't believe you scum. If you are so sure that they are scum then why aren't you voting for one of them.

Tell me, Zang: Where exactly did Snake say that the word "Allons-y" appeared in his role PM? I didn't see any claim to that effect.

You are right to question Snake's claim that "most town wouldn't even consider [mod-given safeclaim] as a first response to a VT claim". Townies should ALWAYS consider the possibility of mod-given safeclaims in a theme game when analyzing claims.

That said, vanilla claim is too risky for a scumbag (especially on a character that is begging for a power role) and that name claim *is* extremely solid. I'll toss Snake into the "not lynching D1" pile.

Yes but you said it yourself that it was "nice WIFOM fodder".

It is, but last I checked scum claiming vanilla outside of massclaim was pretty rare, and that name claim IS probably the best possible name claim this game (unless one low-probability scenario turns out to be true, in which case it is the worst possible case). Remember: scum safe claims in themes usually don't include the protagonist (close protagonist allies are the usual suspects). There are a couple of scenarios that would make Snake far more likely to be scum (one is the low-probability case mentioned above, the other two are fairly high probability, I see no good reason to help scum falseclaim by elaborating without seeing more claims/flips).

Also, Zang: Thoughts on Nexus please.

I am still voting for him? I just said I was going to look for the others as well.

*shakes head*

Why go looking for another player when you're claiming that you're as sure about Snake as you would be as a Cop with a guilty? Why not drive the lynch home?

[Tarhalindur]

I'll answer Zang when I have more time, but for now:

1) In case you hadn't figured it out, GTFO Snake. Now.

2) Nexus is still scum, join the wagon or explain why you aren't.

3) Hey look, bv310 has enough time to set up his new Mini Theme. I don't see any bv310 posts here. He needs to rectify this soon, or we can safely conclude that he's active lurking and kill the scumbag (probably tomorrow, Nexus is still first on the list).

[Tarhalindur]

Also, thoughts on Nexus please.

I’m going to have to look at him in ISO later on today. First impressions have been that his early interactions were Town oriented, and that Snake’s early meta attack on him was bad.

1) In case you hadn't figured it out, GTFO Snake. Now.

2) Nexus is still scum, join the wagon or explain why you aren't.

1. Snake hardly has enough votes where this kind of statement is warranted.
2. Am I right in that the crux of your ‘Nexus is scum’ germinated from his Snake claim reaction?

1) That reaction is independent of the number of votes on the wagon. I won't elaborate further at this time.
2) Yes. Hell, I had a town read on Nexus up until that wagon reaction (which I can't see coming from town) - remember, I called Nexus-Hoppster a townie fight early in the game.

1) In case you hadn't figured it out, GTFO Snake. Now.

Why? I think he is scum so I'm voting for him.

I see you still haven't figured it out. HINT: We're not lynching Snake today, period. That's just optimal play. Go looking for the player you think is second most likely to be scum.

Note that I'm NOT ruling out the possibility of Snake being scum, just the possibility of him being the D1 lynch.

Don't bother asking for elaboration, you're not going to get any at this time.

2) Nexus is still scum, join the wagon or explain why you aren't.

I'm voting for who I think is scum not who you think is scum.

Let's rephrase this one then.

Do you think Nexus is scum?

3) Hey look, bv310 has enough time to set up his new Mini Theme. I don't see any bv310 posts here.

Shouldn't modding a mini theme game take priority over playing in one?.

Yes (trust me, been there, done that), but it DOES prove that bv310 has been on site lately and thus if he keeps failing to post we can safely assume he's active lurking.

He's got a few days of grace period, though - as I said, been there, done that.

Well, yes, but is there someone willing to hammer? Or is the wagon just going to disintegrate?

Scummy dismissal of the wagon, without addressing any of the reasons people are on it.

Well as I think most of the reasons stem from a disagreement in meta, in that I think scum will most likely claim VT (oh the irony, how it's going to hamstring me), and my staunch refusal to believe that Snake isn't scum and that his simple VT claim is enough to get people to back off, I think my wagon is as scummy as shit. Definitely scum driven with at least one or two members on there: Surye and Snake probably.

Wilfred Mott-Vanilla Town. I enjoy stargazing and am related to Donna.

Mmm, delicious irony and wine.

Not impressed by the claim at all. Not provable, name isn't on the same level as a Tenth Doctor claim, not seeing what convinced me that Snake is an unacceptable lynch today (those last two are not the same thing).

Also, nice misrep of the case against you, which is mostly about how you were willing to look for somebody scummier than a player you clearly believed was lying. In the same post where you stated that you thought he was lying, no less. Not a second lynch preference to fall back on the Snake wagon proved impossible, but rather a player scummier than Snake. That tells me that your suspicion on Snake isn't genuine. And that, in turn, tells me that you're a lying scumbag.

However, the most important point here is that the reason scum don't claim VT is because VT claims made under threat of lynch usually get lynched unless they have a damn good piece of supporting evidence. Snake's Tenth Doctor claim counts as supporting evidence, though the big reason I'm not willing to lynch him D1 is the other piece of supporting evidence I refuse to elaborate on (took me long enough to notice it). Your Wilfred claim? Doesn't. (I'd expect him to show up in the game in some form, but he's prime falseclaim fodder.)

----

I'm still not sure what it is about iamausername that is convincing me he's scum, but his vote for Nexus doesn't help him at all. Bussing, perhaps?

[Tarhalindur]

I see you still haven't figured it out. HINT: We're not lynching Snake today, period. That's just optimal play. Go looking for the player you think is second most likely to be scum.

What would be the point of me switching my vote to somebody else that "isn't going to be lynched today"? Besides, I already know my second and third picks for scum and if a large wagon builds up on them then I will switch my vote. Until then, I'm voting for who I think is scummiest.

Read the thread again carefully and you'll know the answer.

Do you think Nexus is scum?

I already answered this.

Whoops, I didn't see it when I was reading the post you replied to it in. Sorry about that.

MOD – I’ll be V/LA from today at 4pm EST (aka now) until Monday morning for my usual weekend duties.

Bv310 has solildified himself as theoretical Vigbait with his active lurking. I know funerals happen but his activity this game has been below my standards even for low performing BV.

Nexus’s VT claim pretty much solidifies we need to lynch either him or Snake today. Continually drawing VT claims helps solidify scum’s ability to hit Power Roles if both are Town or allows scum to blend in by claiming VT themselves (or perhaps already has).

This is good logic. It means that we are lynching Nexus today, period, because unless I'm seriously misreading something I saw earlier Snake is a completely unacceptable lynch today. The only thing that could change that would be a retraction from a certain player, and I'm not seeing it.

Actually this makes me think. What if there are more than one doctors such as the newest doctor in this game then it would make more sense if the 10th doctor is scum or a fake claim. Especially, sense it was specified that he was the tenth doctor instead of just the doctor.

Aside from the slight role-fishing (which could easily be unintentional) this is a good point about Snake’s specifc claim being the 10th Doctor.

This is correct, and if I see another Doctor claim the solidity of Snake's role name claim goes down considerably. It still doesn't affect reason 2 for not lynching Snake today.

I don't understand why you think the Tenth Doctor would be only a VT, but Wilfred wouldn't? :S

Also, as I have spent the day saying, my second lynch preference would be Surye. It always has been.

Nice strawman (Wilfred is a more believable Vanilla than the Tenth Doctor, but then claiming vanilla is easily the shakiest part of Snake's claim). The problem with your claim is that Wilfred is a likely candidate for being a scum safeclaim (not THE obvious suspect under WWTD, but pretty close), whereas the most likely way Snake is scum (in the absence of another regeneration of the Doctor appearing, at least) is if flavor allows him to be trueclaiming Tenth Doctor and still be scum.

I'm not sure whether to be worried by the Surye-scum read given that he's the second largest wagon or not. Probably a null tell, there's good reasons either way.

Okay, I caught up with what I missed. I'm willing to say that Nexus is likely Town, but his reactions at his wagon so far have been extremely scummy. Looking at his iso, he goes from trying to start a counterwagon, to weakly defending a case, to flat-out aggression, to flailing. I'll be willing to vote him once it gets a bit closer to deadline, since I feel like there's a bit more conversation that we can extract first.

Maybe we should deal with Nexus tomorrow after all.

I mean, seriously. "I think player X is likely town but I'm willing to vote him once it gets closer to deadline", "more conversation that we can extract" (lengthening the day to add confusion or to extract more claims, I wonder, I wonder), summary of Nexus iso instead of analysis... oh, and lurking. Can't forget the lurking.

Like hell you're town. The only reason I'm not asking for your head on a platter immediately is because Nexus is ALSO scum and we only get one lynch a day. So I'll get your head on a platter tomorrow. (Or the rest of the town should I be killed overnight.)

HoS: bv310

[Tarhalindur]

Surye:

Exactly, stop doing.

You completely ignored his point. Regardless of whether he did it, you also did it and by telling him to stop doing it without acknowledging that you yourself are doing it then you are doing the exact same thing that he did. I find this very scummy.

FoS: Surye

Incorrect sir. I made an analysis based on the information I have that points to his claim being legit. He brought setup speculation into it.

How does an Eleventh Doctor flip affect this analysis?

Iamausername:

I just reread you overnight. Why aren't you dead yet? Only case of your own was Ant (and poorly articulated, which IIRC is not like you), decidedly content-lite posts overall... and gut still says that I've seen town-iamausername and you sir are no town-iamausername.

Need to finish off vote count analysis, but for now:

Vote: iamausername

[Tarhalindur]

Yes, but they're all directed at Surye. Oh wait, he just answered.

Unvote, Vote: Cogito Ergo Sum

*off to look for CES buddies*

[Tarhalindur]

Well, that was fast.

Zang's not scum with CES.

Pappums/CMAR IS scum with CES, we'll deal with him tomorrow.

[Tarhalindur]

Oh right, we still need to deal with bv310. We'll do that ASAP.

In other news, Eleventh Doctor flip is a MAJOR hole in Snake's name claim. Still something to deal with later.

[Tarhalindur]

EBWOP: And by ASAP I mean Day 4, for obvious reasons.

[Tarhalindur]

Mod: Check your vote count. CES is at L-2, not L-1.

mod: Yea, keyboard failure.

[Tarhalindur]

Well what a surprise..

So CMAR or Hoppster? Let's take a look see for whose scumalicious.

Any particular reason for Hoppster? He's read pretty town to me until now...

---

CMAR, welcome to the game. Unfortunately, you are scum (predecessor's actions and interactions with known scum) and need to die.

Vote: CMAR

---

Oooooh, Counter-wagons are fun.

In other news, where the hell is bv310?

Short answer: Working stupid hours. Had 16 hours of work in 24 yesterday.

Caught up now, and this is the biggest offender atm.

PPE:

Interesting little exchange between Nexus and Hoppster. The FoS on pappums was odd to me, as I don't see not jumping on a wagon or counter wagon page 1 as scummy. I didn't explain this because I wanted to see how he reacted to a page 1 vote against him.

Since when is this townposting?

MFoS: Surye

I wish I could respond, but I don't see the problem that you obviously do :/

unvote, vote: Surye

You really don't see the problem here?

Honourable mention of Scumminess goes to Snake, for completely ignoring the building cases and instead trying to reboot RVS.

Oooooh, Counter-wagons are fun.

Then why didn’t you try to start one as opposed to mindlessly wagoning along?

Because when I voted, there were only 2/3 votes on the primary wagon. It's not an effective counter until you're providing a clear alternative to the main.

^ Because I'm RVS'ing GMan, and will continue to do so until I am ready to leave RVS.

This bothers me. I don't like people who refuse to leave RVS when actual things have happened in the game.


Incidentally, to respond to Snake's 3rd Q: The Weeping Angels. Blink was one of my favourite episodes.

Okay, I caught up with what I missed. I'm willing to say that Nexus is likely Town, but his reactions at his wagon so far have been extremely scummy. Looking at his iso, he goes from trying to start a counterwagon, to weakly defending a case, to flat-out aggression, to flailing. I'll be willing to vote him once it gets a bit closer to deadline, since I feel like there's a bit more conversation that we can extract first.

Well, I don't fully believe Amy Pond as an investigative role, but we have the time to test it, so

vote: CES

This is L-1. No hammering until we get more information and I get a good read in, please.

Don't think I haven't forgotten about you, bv310. Look at all these contentless posts. Oh, and note the pappums interaction - CES/CMAR/bv310 scumteam, anyone?

HoS: bv310

---

Everyone: Thoughts on massclaim?

[Tarhalindur]

So, jason needs to work on his safeclaims.

Most likely character in New Who flavor to be a safeclaim? Donna Noble. Oh wait.
Most likely Doctor incarnation to be a safeclaim? Ninth (with an outside shot of Eleventh). Oh wait.

Rose might have succeeded in throwing me for a loop, though, given "Ninth Doctor AND Rose being safeclaims?" issues... especially since that was Hoppster's safeclaim, and he had me fooled until my death.

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In other news, CMAR earns himself a nice little place on my blacklist for this game. Mostly for a completely unacceptable response to mod actions, with a side of sheer annoyance at how he stopped me from ramming through the D3 massclaim, which otherwise would have caught at least one scum (Ant) and might have given me enough time to piece together that Hoppster wasn't town before dying.

---

What is this "dead QT" that other dead players tell me about?