Mini 1183: Mafiamatical Mathia - Game over!

[Juls]

vote: juls

long time no see.

implo: which game was that? i thought we were in more than one together...

ninja'd. Good to see you.

Vote: Oopid

Self votes are bad, period.

[Juls]

Just an FYI, I have already told the mod, but, I will be limited access until mid-day Saturday. I am travelling tomorrow 8.5 hours by car (and back Friday/Saturday), but I will try to post from my hotel tomorrow night and friday if I feel up to it.

[Juls]

You better feel up to it...or else!

You don't scare me

[Juls]

2. Play to win.

Mini Normals contain no roles which would require or encourage your own lynch. At a minimum you are breaking Rule #2 of the fundamental rules.
If you are town, placing your vote on yourself is placing a vote on a confirmed townie (to you). So I can only deduce that you are scum and/or a bad player.

[Juls]

missed your question don....

question for all: do you find it more difficult to random vote when you are scum, or when you are town?

I don't find it difficult to random vote no matter my alignment. I usually vote the person I know the best or like the most. Or in this case, the

dumbest

worst RVS voter.

[Juls]

Because there is no role that includes self lynching in your win condition in a mini normal.

[Juls]

Are you mafia oopidstay?

[Juls]

@oopidstay: No

@implosion: Evidence requested.

[Juls]

1) is a pile of WIFOM (as you indicate)
2) what people feel about self-voting has nothing to do with alignment. There are much better ways of fishing for reaction then being idiotic. It is generally considered a votable offense (to me at least) if you self vote, unless it is a self-hammer as scum.

Right now, it's the worst vote out there. I have no reason to move my vote until he proves himself.

[Juls]

So...why'm I scum, again?

I wouldn't declare anyone scum on page 2 unless they did something that was very blatant. There is this thing called an unvote if I need it. I am not ready to do that though.

When I come in and see something fishy, I am not wasting an RVS vote when I see something that at best is anti-town (i.e., your self vote).

I briefly skimmed your past games. I see
1) no where did you vote yourself or anyone else voting themselves
2) no discussions that you have been apart of that discuss self voting.

This tells me that you are not reaction fishing and you very well may have been doing it to be funny or you didn't know the repercussions of doing this as scum or town. implosions attempt to make you auto-town is bad or buddying, not sure which yet. Plus I never like when people feed people excuses for their bad play.

P-edit:
implosion, Oopid seems somewhat "new" to the game of mafia despite his join date. I gather this is his 3rd or 4th game. As town, I would probably pull my vote off myself quickly and say "oh, I didn't realize that was a bad thing to do" after it was explained to me. As scum, I would probably argue that my actions were not bad and therefore no remedy is necessary (i.e. an unvote). The point is, you don't know what

oopidstay

would do. You only know what you would do in this situation.

[Juls]

Unvote, vote implosion

. The more I think about it, the excuses he fed Oopid read as buddying.

@Morthas, can't help but notice that the post above doesn't come with any votes despite FoSing. Are you saying your RVS vote on implosion has become a real vote?

P-edit: he already noted his reactions in a previous post.

[Juls]

@Juls- So, just to be clear, do you find Oopidstay suspicious at all for his selfvote?

I found it to be anti-town. The jury is still out on if he is scum or not.

I'm not explaining, yet, though. Waiting to see what others think.

This reads as if you are going to piggyback someone elses argument. If you have evidence, present it. I can think of no reason to keep this information to yourself.

FoS: Twistedspoon

Wait, I thought Kaloofer and Oopid were scum? Surely you don't think its 3 scum in a 9 player game?

unvote, vote wicked

Somethings not jiving here....

Also, good posting by plague. implosion page 4 scum/town list is ridiculous at such an early stage.

(Still Limited Access. Posting from my hotel and will be driving all day again tomorrow)

[Juls]

I am no longer V/LA

[Juls]

I

seriously

don't like the way the Kalofer wagon formed so quickly and TS/Oopid votes look really really bad. TS more so but I am not ready to put him at L-1 yet so

Unvote

,

FoS: TS

[Juls]

EBWOP: Actually, I don't want to unvote because I still have suspicion of Wicked.

Vote: Wicked

[Juls]

There are lots of reasons not to put someone at L-1 so quickly. For one, they could self-hammer before we had a chance to keep talking. Scum could hammer them before we got a claim. Some bad townie could come along and hammer them before we got a claim. It's page 5, I don't see how any of you could be so dead set on him being scum from two comments that were not lynchable in-of-themselves.

[Juls]

Seriously Wicked? You are going to

leave Kaloofer at L-1 without ANY REASON

?!?!?!?! You have a VOTE on someone with no reason and said someone else is scum and Fos'd another person. That's 4 people you suspect ON PAGE 5 and the one person you have your vote is one that you don't have any evidence against (that you have presented). Your post above is a bunch of B.S. None of the reasons you list says I am scum but I will address all of them nonetheless.

I.) I have encountered reasonless suspicion from town, sure, but what I dislike here is that you are calling two people scum WITH NO REASON and then FoSing someone else WITH reason. Now, you have done it again in this post. I have also seen scum vote one person and express suspicion on the other. The person who gets the suspicion but not the vote then turns out to be his scumbuddy.

II.) See above.

III.) What implosion did was take a guy that was getting pressured and start defending him and saying he was town. If implosion is scum he was taking the opportunity to 1) buddy someone who has pressure and thus win over his confidence in him as town and 2) Get to say "told you so" when the flip happens. It looked like buddying. What I am doing here is pointing out a good post by someone. That's not buddying. If it had been someone I suspected as scum that posted that I would probably say "shit...that's good posting, now I have to reconsider my read". It's not a strange comment. You can look in 90% of the games on this site and see that comment. What I see here from you is reaching.

IV.) I kept my vote on Oopid BECAUSE he hadn't encountered self votes in another game. It removes the argument that he was doing it for reaction testing (which I still don't buy). He would only have done that if he had seen that done before. Otherwise it looked like scum who didn't know that it was bad to self vote.

I am

VERY HAPPY

with my vote and encourage others to join in.

[Juls]

And I think you two are scum together.

[Juls]

He is null-leaning town. Null because I don't see what he said as being all that scummy and leaning town based on the speed of his wagon.

[Juls]

Sorry I haven't been posting in a while. Gimme a sec

A sec was 6 hours ago.

Unvote, vote Kalofer

- Not 100% sold on him being scum but I am going to play this game a little different. Games pick up after night one and I am hoping this will be the case here. Oh...look at her vote...so scummy. *rolls eyes*

[Juls]

1) I am not scum
2) I didn't like his delay
3) I meant what I said, that information is gleaned from Night 1 and I am very happy we got scum regardless of how scummy it made me look. I knew it would come off scummy but I didn't really care because there was too much "I'll post soon" going on in this thread and it needed to be shaken up.
4) I still like Wicked and/or TS for scum.

Vote: Wicked

Wicked was also first on the Kalofer wagon which may have caught him in a bus situation gone awry by my early hammer.
5) I like implosion alot more for his reaction to my hammer. He was first to ask why I didn't get a claim. The way I saw it, if Kalofer was a power role he would have been more interested in saving his neck and would have claimed in his "just a sec" post instead of saying "just as sec".

I agree the neighbor should claim if there is one.

Mod: Can you verify that a Neighbor is different than a Neighborizer to you

. If he was a neighborizer there is no neighbor, if he was a neighbor then there is a town neighbor out there somewhere.

[Juls]

By the way, we are in an awesome position and I am not scared to hammer Morthas. In this game, Juls is aggressive and if you don't intend to have him hammered at a moments notice you probably shouldn't have your vote on him.

[Juls]

Actually, Mort is the neighbor...they crumbed it pretty clearly. Votes should probably be removed from him.

[Juls]

VOTE: implo
Lurking before the game even starts thus making me refresh this page so many goddamn times.

Hi Twisted ;D Not you Kalofer... you don't get a hi.

Heeeey Twisted...and everyone else for that matter (except you mort, you don't deserve my recognition).
VOTE: theplague42 cos plagues r bad

[Juls]

They both said the same thing to each other: (paraphrase) hi to everyone except X, you don't deserve it. You saw my breadcumb in another game so you know it happens. Why are you playing dumb?

[Juls]

Just to be uber sure we don't clear a town neighbor and then find this out...

Mod: Is it possible to have two mafia neighbors with no town in the neighbor chat?

[Juls]

It's a question if the mod is trying to do some sort of craziness. I am nothing if not thorough. It would be bastardly in my opinion but I just want to make sure I don't have to rage in end game.

[Juls]

I think maybe later. Lets at least wait until the mafia actually kills someone. We might get some info in a couple nights/days. If we give up cops/docs/etc. now then they aren't much use to us.

[Juls]

@Mod: Why would you force-replace someone for setup speculation?

@TS: I am never surprised when someone flips scum unless I have a solid town read on them. I had a null leaning-town read on him based on the speed of his wagon alone. So I was surprised, as in "hey I just got a free milk shake at mcdonald's" surprised.

@Morthas: Do you have anything to share with us about Kalofer's play in the Neighbor QT?

[Juls]

I'm not sure why implosion excluded Wicked. I think Wicked is a pretty strong candidate for scum. His only "case" on me was uber weak and OMGUS. (is that the second time I have said uber in this thread? weird.) Anyhow, you all should be applying your pressure there. And he is lurking it up hard. He said Kalofer and Oopid were scum before the wagon built and I gave him pressure to provide reasons. When he did he was trying to back off of it.

To be honest, I'm starting to doubt that Kalofer and Oopidstay are scumbuddies after rereading the thread, but I think they are both suspicious individually.

I don't think Don is scum but don't even for one minute let yourself think that don isn't a "bold" player.

He is

.

@TS: Stop talking about ongoing games.


Here is my list as of this moment:

Town

Juls - obviously
Morthas - don't think the mod would make two Mafia neighbors unless there were 3 or more and he had to ask Hoopla, so yeah, he is 99.9% town.
implosion - For this. I don't think scum would ask this question after his buddy was just hammered.
Oopidstay - Was excited for the day to start back
Twistedspoon - Playing a bit different today then yesterday, his suspicion of me, while wrong, is townish but not 100% sold on him yet. Maybe he is just bitter that I hammered his buddy.
don_johnson - I was null yesterday on him. He's more of a PoE to be honest.
theplague42 - I had a town read yesterday but I don't know now. He needs a reread. Same as don on the PoE.
Wickedestjr - reasons noted above.

Scum

[Juls]

Quick posting, eager to figure out last scum. It didn't seem like scum who would post, but maybe not be so enthusiastic about it.

[Juls]

I don't think declaring Twisted confirmed town is a good thing.

I have my reasons that I cannot discuss at the moment.

[Juls]

More votes on Wiked please!

[Juls]

Because I cannot discuss ongoing games.

[Juls]

Hey theplague42, what are your thoughts on Wicked and why aren't you voting him?
Hey Twistedspoon, what are your thoughts on Wicked and why aren't you voting him?
Hey Morthas, what are your thoughts on Wicked and why aren't you voting him?
Hey implosion, what are your thoughts on Wicked and why aren't you voting him?
Hey don_johnson, what are your thoughts on Wicked and why aren't you voting him?
Hey Oopidstay, what are your thoughts on Wicked and why aren't you voting him?

[Juls]

@mod: You have don_johnson voting himself in the previous vote count, is this intentional?

Mod-Edit:

Fixed. Thanks for pointing this out.

[Juls]

What better way to welcome him back than with your vote?

[Juls]

Ah, but he didn't expect the awesome hammer de Juls.

[Juls]

You don't? check this out: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17464

Reckoner went right after Katsuki, both scum.

My case on wicked is presented here, and here (this pressure probably explains why he didn't remove his vote), and here. Am I 100% sure he is scum? No. But he is the most scummy to me so far this game.

[Juls]

unvote, vote: wicked

L-1. welcome back dude. please claim and explain.

i think its foolish to let juls slip by. her hammer only makes sense under certain conditions, and she has denied all of them. my hope is that if we have another night, scum call juls "soft claim bluff bullshit" and shoot her ass.

So you think I am scum but you are going to follow my lead? Scummy scummy donny!

[Juls]

I will say the correct answer is either 2 or 4 or some combination thereof but my reasons have nothing to do with my role. I hammered for these primary reasons:

1) The thread was kinda getting stagnant. Night brings information, in this case the flip was good.
2) I didn't like his "just a sec" post and that was the OK for me to hammer because if he was a cop/doc/etc. He would have said "Claim: Cop, I will post more in a second." And that "sec" was way too long.
3) Principle. I wanted to show TS that putting someone at L-1 unless you want them lynched is dangerous.
4) I wanted to try a more aggressive approach.

Look, I understand the suspicion and I am cool with my lynch tomorrow if you like. Lets just take advantage of this gift of a no kill/save today.

P-Edit: Plague, you are looking more and more scummy by the way. Don's post is fine.

[Juls]

He was saying those are the reasons he could see me hammering. He admits that isn't the case in his post.

[Juls]

I'm leaning strongly wicked or plague right now and would be happy with either of their lynch. I like DJ's response and don't like the way plague attacked it. Seemed opportunistic.

[Juls]

I do, and I said that already but his explanation satisfies me for the moment.

[Juls]

Mod: Please prod wicked

or someone not voting could just lynch him

Mod-Edit:

Done.

[Juls]

@Oopidstay, post 255 is contradictory, please explain.

[Juls]

I had a dream last night that this game had 4 scum. I was furious.
This game gets more action in my sleep than some of you are giving it!

[Juls]

Not convinced. Can't help but notice a lack of claim in those posts. Good with anyone who wants to hammer.

[Juls]

Can I have the hammer? It's so much fun and if he is scum I want to be the one that hammers them both!

Unvote

[Juls]

Again, as with Kalofer, if he was going to claim a power role he would have already done it. If he claims a power role now is that going to change your mind?

[Juls]

Wicked, just because my vote isn't on you doesn't mean I am not voting you in my heart. I just want to hammer you.

Claim in your next post or die.

@Mod:

DJ isn't voting me.

Mod-Edit:

Fixed, and thank you.

[Juls]

Agreed (even if you are scum!).

[Juls]

Despite being a terrible scumhunter

LOL. Insults will get you no where.

I find it funny that me and dj are being lumped into "stubborn townies" when we are notorious (to us at least) for going at each other in EVERY GAME WE HAVE EVER PLAYED TOGETHER!

I would be willing to lynch plague, whole-heartedly. Plague, give us your scum reads... I have zero'd in on these two specifically today...guess that makes me "stubborn".

Mod-Edit:

Quote tags fixed.

[Juls]

@Mod

Please fix my vote tags. Thanks.

[Juls]

EBWOP: vote = quote

Wow, I need to sleep.

[Juls]

I am good with either of the two. They are both scummy. TS, if you still like Wicked for scum ,vote him and I will give him 24 hours to claim before I hammer.

[Juls]

Wicked's countdown to death:

(expired on 2011-06-17 07:11:00)

.

CLAIM WICKED

[Juls]

Vote: Wicked

[Juls]

Case:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3122722

It is not my job to

read the thread

for you wicked.

[Juls]

My focus today is on TS and plague. Maybe to a lesser extent oopid. I feel good about dj, morthas, and implosion today. DJ's thought process regarding his thoughts that I was neighbor are townish. Implosions reaction to my hammer is townish. Morthas is eliminated because of the neighbor claim. I think I got a little carried away yesterday. But despite the mislynch we are still in good shape. I am posting from my phone and will try to post more later tonight when I get home.

[Juls]

Doc claim doesn't necessarily clear 3, possibly just 2. But claiming today won't let scum cc. A roleblocker should claim I think though or a jailkeeper. Let's think more before a doc claim. Cop might be good to claim. Will think on it more.

[Juls]

OK, now I am up for a mass claim. Oopid, who do you want to go next (Note: it should be one of me, don, implosion). TS and Plague should claim last.

[Juls]

Actually, just post the order you want to go in so we don't have to do this back and forth.

[Juls]

You can either post a list of the order you want people to claim or we can popcorn (by letting each person who claims choose next).

[Juls]

Hmmm...if Don is telling the truth then they probably tried to kill Morthas (cause he would be cleared) and then blocked implosion.

[Juls]

And Don actually came out suspecting Morthas which makes sense. I am tending to believe Don.

[Juls]

Hell, even oopid, plague, and TS could still be mafia but we are in an excellent position to figure this out and I will gladly sacrifice if we get the final scum. We have two mislynches if there is only one scum left.

[Juls]

Only question I really have is why you wanted to lynch plague?

[Juls]

I'm VT.

[Juls]

We have time.

[Juls]

Right now I am leaning toward an implosion lynch but I need to think this through. In addition to TS's role I would like to know if Morthas has any more powers not already claimed.

[Juls]

plague, you are conveniently forgetting mafia could have a godfather. You aren't 100% cleared.

[Juls]

implosion, your plan is easily thwarted by scum. Let's say we tell Don to jail me. The mafia can then just No kill to make it look like I was the one who did the kill. We don't learn anything from it. If they go the other route and just straight up kill don then we lose one of our mislynches. I have to think now that all the claims are in that both Oopid and don are being truthful. That means town has two power roles and a neighbor (which is more of a weakness to us than a help). I think we lynch implosion today and go from there. As it stands right now we can mislynch twice and then still have 3-way LYLO.

[Juls]

Plus, if don was the final scum he was FIRST to claim which means either we have your theory of a 3:6 or he has NK'd both nights or he was pretty ballsy to fake claim.

[Juls]

My initial understanding was that we no lynch today. Implosion are you saying we continue to lynch as normal?

[Juls]

I really don't understand why we would jailkeep oopid tonight. He has given no reason to disbelieve his claim and the fact that HE CLAIMED FIRST makes it even more believable.

The focus should be on these 4: TS, Juls, implosion, plague. We have 3 chances to get it right. The jailkeep should be used as a roleblock more than a doc because it's fine if we lose oopid at night. Losing don makes it a little more difficult. Lynch me if you want but it's a wasted lynch. I would rather be jailkept. Personally, I think plague is the last scum despite the innocent.

Pedit: Um if you jailkeep oopid he cant investigate me.

[Juls]

implosions plan works great only if we get the scum the first night because don is dying otherwise.

[Juls]

Bad plan. We don't no lynch. We lose a mislynch if we do. I would rather be lynched today than Jailkept tonight.

P-edit: If I was scum, I would give town a confirmed to get rid of the jailkeeper.

[Juls]

Actually, I think this is autowin to be honest:

We will call me, TS, plague, and implosion player A, B, C, D

Lynch Player A (end day with 5:1)
Jail Player B
Did a kill occur?

DJ died, Player B is confirmed. (end night with 4:1)
Lynch player C (end day with 3:1)
Scum kills Oopid in night (day begins 2:1 with Morthas and player B cleared, Player D is scum)

Everyone lives! (end night with 5:1)
Lynch Player B (end day with 4:1)
Don Jails Player C.
Kill occured? Yes, Player C is confirmed, Lynch player D (game over!)
Kill didn't occur, Lynch Player C (game over!)

This assumes DJ and Oopid are telling the truth and scum can't block. I need to think more on if they are lying or if scum has a block.

[Juls]

Also, in the scenarios above Oopid would not tell us who he is investigating until the next day. No reason to out it.

[Juls]

I have talked to the mod about this and plan on addressing it with the normal review committee after but the normal roles explicitly states that

Scum masons are disallowed

. I know what Hoopla said, and I know what the mod says but I am going to go based on the assumption that scum masons cannot be allowed and therefore Morthas is town. If it turns out to be different then I will certainly not be a happy camper after the game.

Also, in the world where we follow my plan I would prefer plague be the first lynch.

[Juls]

Calling them neighbors would just be semantics because obviously in a 9 person game you would only have one scum team which basically makes them Scum Masons. How exactly would they be alignment unconfirmed as both scum?

[Juls]

Again, if you want to jail me tonight, I would rather you lynch me so we don't waste your jail and you die.

[Juls]

That's fine, lets plan it out before voting first though ok?

[Juls]

My suggestion is to jail implosion again. If we clear him, lynch plague. If we don't clear him, lynch implosion and jail plague the following night.

[Juls]

Losing don loses a big advantage for us I would rather keep don and lose myself than lose our confirmation tool. I personally would rather us lynch plague and jail you but I am not going to fight my lynch if it keeps don alive.

[Juls]

Because he will be jailing someone else tonight.

[Juls]

It increases the percentage chance he will survive. His chance of surviving if I am jailed is 0%.

[Juls]

Jailkeep blocks and protects the target. It should be used as a roleblock from this point forward.

[Juls]

DJ, would you be ok with lynching plague and jailing implosion again? oopid should investigate whoever he wants and tell us tomorrow.

[Juls]

(or opposite works fine for me too).

[Juls]

Are you jailing me or plague?

[Juls]

*head desk*
Fine. But you are dead tonight unless they try to frame me. Nice playing with you again.

Vote: implosion

[Juls]

Don't try any WIFOM crap either or I WILL push for your lynch tomorrow.

[Juls]

That's L-1 I believe.

[Juls]

I don't think Oopid should tell us who he is investigating until tomorrow if he lives. If he dies people will suggest it was because he was investigating player X and therefore player X must die.

[Juls]

Alright, I am clear. Plague or TS?

[Juls]

It doesn't matter who we kill, we enter tomorrow with two clears.
Either me and you with No kill or me and your jailkeep target if you die or you and your jail keep target if I die. So I am fine with Morthas.

[Juls]

I just have a bad feeling in my gut about this game though. I feel like we are about to get setup screwed at any minute.

[Juls]

I think scum have to have something else if you are telling the truth Don.

[Juls]

We need to decide what we do,

I don't mind oopid investigating me since the godfather would screw up any investigations anyway.

Wouldn't it make sense for the scum to have some kind of PR? A neighbor +vanilla scum don't balance against jailkeeper cop and neighbor

The bolded is a bit strange. I would like Morthas to explain what he meant.

[Juls]

Spoon, plague, and morthas:

Who is scum?

TS, address this please.

[Juls]

I really just cannot buy that both scum are neighbors.

[Juls]

Yeah but scum can easily no kill and get us to mislynch tomorrow. I think don is useless now for proving anything.

[Juls]

Actually, I am thinking No lynch might be a good strategy.
It forces scum to put the frame on early.
If they do try to frame an innocent and we lynch them we still make it one more day to make an informed decision.
If they kill, they clear another person and we have it narrowed to 50/50.

I think the idea of 3 scum are out because town would be strongly underpowered if that were the case.

[Juls]

You don't want to No lynch? You don't think it's a good strategy?

[Juls]

Let's no lynch then. I see no downside to it unless scum have 3 which I really can't see.

Vote: No Lynch

[Juls]

Obviously if we do this, don needs to get in here and tell us who he plans on jailing. I nominate Twistedspoon to be jailed.

[Juls]

Why wouldn't you want to be jailed?

[Juls]

To me the suspects are you or him. I think if we clear you then plague is the obvious choice. So you should have no qualms about being jailed.

[Juls]

wtf don?

[Juls]

I still think no lynch is the best plan. If we wait then scum can frame someone into LYLO and thats not good.

[Juls]

Im not. Don, please consider no lynching.

[Juls]

who are you jailing?

[Juls]

If scum has a roleblocker, id rather not say. Should we just see what happens?

No, you have to tell us. Because if you die we won't have a clear.

[Juls]

Don, for fucks sake. Claim your target. If there is a role blocker it doesn't even matter buy I think jailkeeper/roleblocker setups are frowned upon because night order resolution is a nightmare. No lynching forces mafia to frame someone early. If we lynch now we can't say with absolute certainy that the last guy is scum. It becomes wifom over the frame.

[Juls]

Last was a phone post sorry for errors


Preview edit: if morthas is scum I will raise he'll with the mod and reviewers. He is last choice IMO

[Juls]

Alright, lets wait on plague. Probably best to lynch plague and jail spoon. I think plague is more scummy but TS's response to us no lynching and then jailing him kinda made my scumdar twirp.

[Juls]

can't wait 'till saturday

best option is plague lynch for convenience and wincon

Why can't you wait? What's the rush?

[Juls]

Here's what needs to happen. plague needs to come in and give us his reads of who he think is the last scum. Then we kill him and jail TS. Whoever is left can sort out the rest tomorrow.

[Juls]

No. Are you a jailkeeper?

[Juls]

Yes. And it doesnt matter what plagues reads are.

vote plague

It does if he is town. We can wait another day.

[Juls]

I think the mod is V/LA anyway so there is no rush.

[Juls]

No, we are lynching you jailing him. If you are last scum go ahead and tell us

Vote: Plague

[Juls]

That should be the lynch btw plague (me, TS, don).

[Juls]

Oh well. Better catch him tomorrow.

Really?

[Juls]

That would be unsportsmanlike and make me not want to play with him EVER again.

[Juls]

Morthas, if you are scum you know you are only winning on a technicality right?

[Juls]

TS, if you were scum in this situation, what would you do tonight?

[Juls]

The way I see it we either have:

Morthas who is scum neighbor which essentially means scum mason which is not allowed and will make my brain explode if he wins - Very Unlikely
Don who is not a real jailkeeper and for some reason No Killed for two nights after his scum buddy died - Unlikely
TS is scum Godfather - Most likely
Plague was scum Godfather and thinks it's funny to keep this going until Monday. At which point I would be very angry. - Possible.

[Juls]

I am 2000% clear if you believe Don. The only way I would not be clear is if I was a role blocker. Which the mod has already said they would resolve simultaneously and therefore no kill would have taken place: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p3173823

Being that a kill DID take place, I am clear.

So tomorrow TS, I am voting you no matter what. If you are scum can you just admit it now and let me have an early birthday present? (it's tomorrow by the way, Happy Birthday to me)

[Juls]

This is like chess right, just concede victory....

[Juls]

If you were scum in this situation would you admit it?

[Juls]

It's mini normal.

Uncommon roles are NOT allowed.

[Juls]

If plague is telling the truth, you are scum, no way around it. Either that or Don gets a Scummy nomination or Hoppster gets rage from me.

[Juls]

It would be completely illegal and therefore should not be considered at all.

[Juls]

Morthas, could you admit that if you were scum and you were to win it would be a technicality and therefore an undeserved win?

[Juls]

I thought of a good plan but it would only work if I could telepathically tell Don what to do.

[Juls]

Look into my eye don.....

[Juls]

Based on game play? No. Based on logic, yes.

[Juls]

Don, did you wifom or did you actually jail ts?

[Juls]

Agreed

vote ts

I reallydont want to rage but will congratulate dj if he pulled this off as scum.

[Juls]

You know, I just thought. This thing isn't over if TS isn't scum. DJ will jail Morthas in the night and we can vote him tomorrow. The only way it gets screwed is if don is mafia and then I will cry.

[Juls]

If Don is scum I will make him feel bad for the rest of his time on earth for tricking me. But I don't think he is scum.

[Juls]

No, it's not bastard. Godfather fits good with what we have as claims.

[Juls]

OMG Don, I will still rage if morthas is scum but my town record is BAD. I need a win!

[Juls]

You have jailed Morthas. On that night, a kill didn't take place. You have jailed me. On that night a kill did take place. There is no role that falls under the umbrella of "normal" that would allow that to happen. None. I am so clear I am invisible.

[Juls]

I am still at the same place I have always been. PoE says TS is scum. I don't think he has been particularly scummy this game but I can't see how either of you or Morthas are scum. I think you have a higher likelihood than Morthas but even then the role distribution wouldn't make any sense. Our only power role is a cop? Not buying it.
I want to lynch TS, if he flips town I want you to block Morthas. Anything else and we lose.

[Juls]

Now you are just being paranoid.

[Juls]

I am V/LA starting tomorrow.

So I assume you jailed Morthas?

[Juls]

Yeah whatever, I am ready to get this game over. The only way you are scum is if you had some sort of one-shot kill only which is very strange. If you are scum gg.

Vote: Morthas

[Juls]

Unvote

I am not going to vote Don but this should show Don I am town if he has any doubt. I could easily hammer.

[Juls]

Vote Morthas

Don, if you are online come in here and tell me if I hammered wrong and explain it to me so I can go to bed .

[Juls]

Hoopster, look we won and obviously winning takes off the rage a little bit. But I think Mini Normal is the wrong place to try and "dupe" the town. Had it been anyone else in end game other than myself and Don I don't know if the right decision would have been made. Hell, I unvoted just to PROVE to don that I was town. I think giving them a Godfather would have balanced it just fine instead of playing a mod-trick on people. Or perhaps have 3 people in the neighborhood with one being town. Obviously had I not asked the question early about a neighborhood with only 2 mafia neighbors this would not even been worked out. Morthas would have been confirmed until the end of time. If he hadn't just lurked through the whole game, he probably would have won. Call it women's intuition. And my good pal Don, amazing job. You are the one that really saved us. So many times I went back and reviewed your actions thinking you had to be scum and every time I found good stuff to town-it-away. Thank you brother!

I am obviously going V/LA so I don't have time to rage but I hope to remember to talk to the setup review team when I return. It's not to disparage you Hoopster but I don't think this (Mini Normals) is a good place for it.

Good game town.