OPEN 310 - Medical Mafia - TOWN WIN

[Hoppster]

VOTE: Quilford

DAMNIT QUILFORD, MAKING US WAIT SO LONG

[Hoppster]

What does everybody think about Hypo-Doc'ing?

We say who we would protect if we were a doctor (of course 2 of us are mafia and 1 is a nurse).

We don't give scum information because not only don't we know our own sanities, but they don't know our sanities either.

However, it helps us to work out who must be what sanity from deaths and whatnot.

We would have to go around in a circle, methinks. Player A hypo-docs Player B, who hypo-docs Player C, etc...

It's more effective this way, rather than having two people hypo-doc'ing the same player. A death doesn't tell us as much if three people were hypo-doc'ing a person who dies as it does if just one person was hypo-doc'ing that person, imo.


Also, I think the Nurse should claim. We can confirm a townie this way.

Quilford's pre-game shenanigans

may

confirm him as town as well, now I think about it.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: DeityKabuto




In everybody's next post, they

MUST

do the following:

1. Say Y/N to hypo-doc.
   NB:

   No discussion

   on "Why should we?" or "I don't understand it!"
   
   If either of those two is the case, then just say N, and we'll discuss/explain it further after everybody has said Y/N. I want to see who says Y/N right off the bat with minimal discussion.
1. Y to hypo-doc does not necessarily mean it has to be done as I set out above. Y means agreeing to some sort of hypo-doc, N means disagreeing to any sort of hypo-doc.
2. Say Y/N to Nurse claim.
   (As above, no discussion, just Y/N.)
3. Either vote DeityKabuto, Hoppster, or not make a vote.
   
   NB: In the mod's rules, it states you should use the player's full username when voting. Everybody should do this. I don't want any 'trick' votes where you don't use the full username because you know it won't count.
1. If you
   must
   make a RVS vote for the sake of RVS, then you are allowed to, provided you then unvote your RVS vote (and possibly vote DeityKabuto or Hoppster).
4. Not talk about any suspicious/dodgy behaviour until everybody has completed these instructions.
   
   Exception: You are allowed to whine if you think

   I

   am being scummy or overcontrolling. NOBODY else. Even then, try to keep it brief, please. It'd still be much better and more pro-town if you waited until everybody has posted and followed these instructions. We want to keep discussion to a minimum.

RVS is over. If you enjoy it, tough luck.

a) Y
b) Y
c) Done.
d) 'K.

@ Mod: Do Doctors flip/reveal Sanity upon death? Or just 'Doctor'?

[Hoppster]

@ Mod: Do Doctors flip/reveal Sanity upon death? Or just 'Doctor'?

Reposting this so it doesn't get lost in the wave of bold in my above post.

I honestly can't think of any pro-town reason not to humour me and do what I say, so even if you vehemently disagree and think I'm an idiot, please just follow my instructions and then you can shout at me once everybody has finished.

[Hoppster]

Ah, got another instruction for y'all.

e. Y/N - Do you agree that Quilford's pre-game shenanigans suggest he is likely town?

(Again, no discussion plzkthx.)


e) Y

[Hoppster]

No, I want to see who is thinking along the same lines of me without me having to explain it.

If you don't understand what the hell I am talking about, just say N.

[Hoppster]

EBWOP: "No, I want to see who is thinking along the same lines

of

as

me without me having to explain it."

[Hoppster]

Actually, thinking about it, forget e.

I think it's still valid, but it's pushing Rule 5 to its limits, so we probably shouldn't use it.

Plus, there are bound to be some people who say it's against the spirit of the game, yadda yadda.

Still want a, b, c & d done though.

[Hoppster]

No more DeityKabuto votes

plz, for those that aren't paying attention.

>>

Damnit. This all made

a lot

more sense in my head.

[Hoppster]

What - no more DeityKabuto votes, or what - this all made a lot more sense in my head?

[Hoppster]

DeityKabuto is at L-1.

I had a good reason for adding c. (in my head at least) but now I'm wondering wth I was thinking.

We've started with it though, so we'll continue with it.

[Hoppster]

Actually, thinking about it, forget e.

I think it's still valid, but it's pushing Rule 5 to its limits, so we probably shouldn't use it.

Plus, there are bound to be some people who say it's against the spirit of the game, yadda yadda.

[Hoppster]

a. Hypo-doc, do we do it or not (Y/N)? Briefly explained in my post here.

If you still don't understand it, then say N.

can't we have a normal RVS?

Yeah, thought about it, and, eh. Feel free to make a 'tee-hee' RVS vote. I thought about it, and I decided there's no paticular point in making you unvote after it as well, so... yeah. I'm relaxing the 'rules' on C slightly.


Remember, minimal discussion would be cool, folks.


We need to hear from the two people with dates in their names (1990 and 1991) and chk, and then I'll stop being such a spoil-sport.

[Hoppster]

Huzzah!

Ah, got another instruction for y'all.

e. Y/N - Do you agree that Quilford's pre-game shenanigans suggest he is likely town?

(Again, no discussion plzkthx.)

If you'd all be so kind as to answer this now, then.

[Hoppster]

Umm.

Ongoing games?

[Hoppster]

Hey, chk. Weird how everybody else is keeping discussion to a minimum, amirite? >>

[Hoppster]

EBWOP: We're NOT lynching yet, we're just satisfying my weird urges.

[Hoppster]

Yeah and I'm definitely not playing along

Why? Give me any pro-town reason.

[Hoppster]

1) We'll have plenty to discuss after.
2) This is NOT RQS. These questions are

completely

and wholly relevant to the game.
3) What? That's part of the questions. That's what I want everybody to give their opinion on. If you disagree, then you just say No to question B or whatever it was. Then we discuss it after.
4) No, claiming outright gives mafia far too much wriggle room. This locks them into what they have to play along with.

[Hoppster]

I think it worked out pretty well in the previous game of this fashion that I was in (see link), but you're entitled to your opinion. I also understand where you're coming from with the whole "let's PL the VI," but we don't have a big enough playerlist for all that.

So, care to share why you opened with that?

At no point have I gone "OHH LET'S PL THE VI".

We can discuss all my opening shenanigans in further detail just as soon as you do what I ask. If you feel I have been pushing for a Policy Lynch, we can discuss that just as soon as you do what I ask. If you feel that outright claiming is much better than hypo-cop, you can argue your case just as soon as you do what I ask.

One of your points was "It's stifling discussion" - but as shown, we'll have PLENTY to discuss after you just satisfy my demands, whether I am wrong or right. I may very well be a complete idiot, but on the off-chance that I am NOT being a complete idiot, there is NOTHING to be lost by just following what I'm saying.

[Hoppster]

Yeah, okay, so, sorry to everybody about me being such a huge spoilsport.

Checking over the thread, I have realised that DK escaped answering a, which is disappointing. The whole point of it was to do it with minimal discussion though, and with chk's huge rant, getting an answer from DK now would be useless. So, thanks for that, chk.


Got a few more questions for specific people.

Only the people I am asking should answer.

@ jilynne - What makes you think Quilford not confirming is null?


@ chk - You're clearly very suspicious of me, so why no vote?


@ DK:

Hopster town credits drained

What did you mean by this?


@ moratorium:

e. N (assuming we're thinking along the same lines)

What lines were you thinking along (

wait until jilynne has answered her question

, ta)?

So... still waiting on that.

On which bit exactly?

I never called for a Policy Lynch. DK was simply the first non-Hoppster non-Quilford wagon I saw.



Okay, hypo-doc'ing.

Basically, I believe we should go in a circle (as previously mentioned), with nobody being hypo-doc'd more than once, because it greatly narrows down the possibilities if only one person claims to hypo-doc each person.

Otherwise, 2 people hypo-doc 1 person. That person does not die. This tells us

nothing

, essentially. There are so many possibilities.

1 could be CPR, 1 could be quack.
1 could be a paranoid doc, 1 could be a normal doc.
1 could be a paranoid doc, 1 could be a naive doc.
1 could be a paranoid doc, 1 could be a weak doc.
1 could be a naive doc, 1 could be a normal doc.
1 could be a naive doc, 1 could be a weak doc.
1 could be normal doc, 1 could be quack.
1 could be a normal doc, 1 could be a weak doc.
1 could be nurse, 1 could be normal doc.
1 could be nurse, 1 could be naive doc.
1 could be nurse, 1 could be paranoid doc.
1 could be nurse, 1 could be weak doc.
Both could be scum who chose to NK somebody else.
One could be scum who chose to NK that person, the other could be a normal doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK that person, the other could be a paranoid doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK that person, the other could be a CPR doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a normal doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a naive doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a weak doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a paranoid doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a nurse.

There's probably more that I've missed. But you get the idea.
There are

probably

even more possibilities with 3 people hypo-doc'ing.

And then this leads onto the idea of just straight up claiming results post-flip. If Person X says he doc'd Person Y, and Person Y is still alive, all scum have to do is say they also doc'd Person Y. Because that opens up the multitude of possibilities as shown above.


I have mixed feelings on the nurse claiming. What chk said is true, I would expect the Nurse to die N1. However, this will be informative, because it will tell us more information about the person who ended up hypo-doc'ing the nurse and what sanity they could be.

It also prevents nasty lylo situations where somebody claims nurse. If the nurse is still alive, they CC. If it

is

the nurse, scum could CC. This puts us in a horrible 50/50, which I really want to avoid. Thus I think it better for nurse to claim now (scum are also less likely to CC now, I would expect, but if they do we catch one scum).

Reminder: Nurse should not claim yet while we're still discussing this.

So, plenty to discuss, everybody.

[Hoppster]

If it's agreed we hypodoc, which I am 200% for, I think every player should hypodoc the player directly below them in the playerlist (obviously I'll hypodoc Amrun). This stops scum from potentially building strategies to 'cheat' the hypodoc.

Yep, this is what I was thinking.

I was also considering a 'popcorn style' hypo-doc (each person hypo-doc's the person they popcorn to), but the player list is probably the better way.

[Hoppster]

As an addendum to my arguments against straight-up claiming here: straight-up claiming also means it is likely that two town docs will target the same person, and again we're left in a situation of minimal information from that (as shown in the huge number of possibilities for their sanities/alignments should the person survive).

Hypo-doc'ing just basically prevents the scenario of two people doc'ing the same person and that person surviving, which is basically a waste of a night imo.


P-Edit: DAMNIT MORATORIUM (wow, I took a long time typing this out.)

Now she can just sheep your logic. >>

Not what I was thinking, though, FWIW. I will reveal once jilynne has answered.

[Hoppster]

I also said it was null, ftr.

Hypodoc still a yes from me. 1st night doing the playerlist thing is okay but at some point we need to move away from that, asap.

If the nurse claims, I'd rather it be d2 so we have some interactions to build off of.

Yeah, I know. However, you didn't add the "if I'm thinking along the same lines as you" bit that Moratorium added, and you didn't look like you were just blindly sheeping as Jilynne did.

Problem with Nurse claiming D2 is that we could be in lylo tomorrow - 9 alive atm, but then 3 potential night kills (CPR, Quack, Scum) + lynch. And that's the whole situation I want to avoid, the nurse lylo CC-shenanigans.

[Hoppster]

Setup Information

Roles:

• 2 Mafia Goons
  
• 1 "Normal" Doctor
  
• 1 Weak Doctor - Dies if (s)he protects the Mafia
  
• 1 CPR Doctor - Protects against any kill, otherwise kills the patient
  
• 1 Paranoid Doctor - Also blocks the patient
  
• 1 Quack Doctor - Kills the patient
  
• 1 Naive Doctor - Doesn't really do anything
  
• 1 Nurse - Backup Doctor (Becomes the first doctor role that dies)

Slightly different to the wiki for some roles' effects.

[Hoppster]

Oh, crap, and the weak doc too. Hadn't thought about that.

We could actually lose if we mislynch today.

7:2 -> 6:2


Weak doc targets scum, CPR & Quack doc target town

6:2 -> 3:2


Scum NK target is not the Paranoid/Normal/CPR Doc protection, or Doc protecting NK target gets RB'd by Paranoid Doc

3:2 -> 2:2


o.0

Well, that's still pretty damn unlikely... right?

I'll think this through a bit more.

@ Mod: Can the Mafia NK be RB'd - do the Mafia have to choose a member to send in the NK? It's not clear in the sample PMs whether the Mafia actually have to designate somebody to carry out the kill.

P-Edit: Ninja'd.

Good idea though. Nurse only claims before the hammer, ie. after the person being hammered has claimed.

[Hoppster]

Hypo-doc'ing is nothing but more WIFOM and allows scum even more wiggle room than actually claiming our real doctor protections because there are only so many scenarios that can happen. We're going to cross-protect, stop kills, create kills, etc etc. Hypo-doc'ing gets us nowhere with that but some fake/worthless discussion that fluffs the thread.

How does hypo-doc'ing create any more WIFOM than claiming real doctor protections?

It's just claiming real doctor protections... but in advance.

I fail to see how that creates more WIFOM.

Claiming real doc protections is, as I've said before, giving us practically no information, because the chances are high more than one person will claim to protect the same person.

Spoiler: Possible scenarios if 2 people claim to target Player X (alive)

1 could be CPR, 1 could be quack.
1 could be a paranoid doc, 1 could be a normal doc.
1 could be a paranoid doc, 1 could be a naive doc.
1 could be a paranoid doc, 1 could be a weak doc.
1 could be a naive doc, 1 could be a normal doc.
1 could be a naive doc, 1 could be a weak doc.
1 could be normal doc, 1 could be quack.
1 could be a normal doc, 1 could be a weak doc.
1 could be nurse, 1 could be normal doc.
1 could be nurse, 1 could be naive doc.
1 could be nurse, 1 could be paranoid doc.
1 could be nurse, 1 could be weak doc.
Both could be scum who chose to NK somebody else.
One could be scum who chose to NK that person, the other could be a normal doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK that person, the other could be a paranoid doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK that person, the other could be a CPR doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a normal doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a naive doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a weak doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a paranoid doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a nurse.

Spoiler: Possible scenarios if 2 people claim to protect Player Y (dead)

Player Y, a weak doc, could have targeted scum.
Both could be scum (who chose to NK that person)
One could be scum who chose to NK that person, the other could be a naive doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK that person, the other could be a weak doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK that person, the other could be a nurse.
One could be scum who chose to NK that person, the other could be quack doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a CPR doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a quack doc.
One could be a quack doc, the other could be a naive doc.
One could be a quack doc, the other could be a nurse.
One could be a CPR doc, the other could be a naive doc.
One could be a CPR doc, the other could be a nurse.
One could be a CPR doc, the other could be a quack doc, and then scum NK'd that person.
One could be a normal doc, the other could be a quack doc, and then scum NK'd that person.
One could be a weak doc, the other could be a quack doc, and then scum NK'd that person.
One could be a nurse, the other could be a quack doc, and then scum NK'd that person.
One could be a naive doc, the other could be a quack doc, and then scum NK'd that person.
One could be a naive doc, the other could be a nurse, and then scum NK'd that person.
One could be a paranoid doc, the other could be a quack doc, and then scum NK'd that person.

There are almost certainly scenarios I have missed off in both those situations.

Claiming protections the next day is useless unless we somehow manage to get both scum to claim first, because all scum have to do is then parrot the target of whoever has claimed before them.

Everyone else, discussion time is go, if you hadn't figured it out.

Yup.

[Hoppster]

DK, how come you still haven't commented on the hypo-doc situation yet?

[Hoppster]

No, don't claim yet.

Don't claim who you will (hypothetically) be protecting yet either.


Half protecting and half not protecting isn't something I've considered yet.

I'll think about it, but my gut instinct is that would make it more complicated (although less risky), because we have to factor either both scum 'protecting', one scum 'protecting' or no scum 'protecting'.

[Hoppster]

Damnit, chk, I typed up all those possibilities to show you how useless just 'claiming results' is to find scum.

You could at least acknowledge it. >>

[Hoppster]

Scum are DeityKabuto and jilynne (failing that, Moratorium).

Discuss.

[Hoppster]

Scum are DeityKabuto and jilynne (failing that, Moratorium).

Discuss.

You're taking this from the way they sheeped your instructions (ie no questioning etc etc), I assume?

If so I'm inclined to agree. Also something strikes me as off re: DK's reaction to pressure but I'll reread soon to confirm my suspicions.

Not just that.

The way Jilynne sheeped in paticular the 'null' bit struck me as scummy.

DeityKabuto is partially PoE, partially the early doc-claim.


You're town not only for your "My pregame shenanigans don't really confirm me as town, but you can treat me as confirmed town anyway"... and also for pre-game shenanigans. Mod was actively looking to replace you, which meant you couldn't be scum posting in the scum QT (most Mods open scum QTs pre-game).

Newman is town for the way he disagreed with me got pissed off with me 'in charge'.

Amrun is town for the discussion.

Leaning town on chk for again disagreeing with me, but my town-read is hurt somewhat in that he didn't vote for me despite seemingly being so suspicious.

tim_hill pretty much null.

Moratorium also fairly null, but I have a bit of a gut scum-read.


P-Edit: Here be reasoning, Moratorium.

[Hoppster]

Mor, explain how they're wishy-washy and I'll elaborate on how they aren't.

Now, how can hypoclaiming benefit scum more? They know who we're protecting, simple as. They already know who they are and who we are.

For example, lets go with the assumption that we're to use the plan of protecting the person below us on the player list. OH, LOOK AT THAT, the person below X died, that must mean they're one of the freak-accident doctors OR scum. That's on top of the quack doctor. The only 100% fool-proof tell is if the doctor that dies protecting a mafia goon dies... but even that could be WIFOM'd by the mafia since we won't be getting sanities from the flips. Broken down enough?

This is better than the multitude of possibilities arising from straight up real-claiming and how painfully easy that is to manipulate for scum.

Spoiler: Possible scenarios if 2 people claim to target Player Y (alive)

1 could be CPR, 1 could be quack.
1 could be a paranoid doc, 1 could be a normal doc.
1 could be a paranoid doc, 1 could be a naive doc.
1 could be a paranoid doc, 1 could be a weak doc.
1 could be a naive doc, 1 could be a normal doc.
1 could be a naive doc, 1 could be a weak doc.
1 could be normal doc, 1 could be quack.
1 could be a normal doc, 1 could be a weak doc.
1 could be nurse, 1 could be normal doc.
1 could be nurse, 1 could be naive doc.
1 could be nurse, 1 could be paranoid doc.

1 could be nurse, 1 could be weak doc.

Both could be scum who chose to NK somebody else.
One could be scum who chose to NK that person, the other could be a normal doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK that person, the other could be a paranoid doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK that person, the other could be a CPR doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a normal doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a naive doc.

One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a weak doc.

One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a paranoid doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a nurse.

Spoiler: Possible scenarios if 2 people claim to protect Player Y (dead)

Player Y, a weak doc, could have targeted scum.

See the italicised possibilities in the above spoiler for all the sub-scenarios within this scenario.

Both could be scum (who chose to NK that person)
One could be scum who chose to NK that person, the other could be a naive doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK that person, the other could be a weak doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK that person, the other could be a nurse.
One could be scum who chose to NK that person, the other could be quack doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a CPR doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a quack doc.
One could be a quack doc, the other could be a naive doc.
One could be a quack doc, the other could be a nurse.
One could be a CPR doc, the other could be a naive doc.
One could be a CPR doc, the other could be a nurse.
One could be a CPR doc, the other could be a quack doc, and then scum NK'd that person.
One could be a normal doc, the other could be a quack doc, and then scum NK'd that person.
One could be a weak doc, the other could be a quack doc, and then scum NK'd that person.
One could be a nurse, the other could be a quack doc, and then scum NK'd that person.
One could be a naive doc, the other could be a quack doc, and then scum NK'd that person.
One could be a naive doc, the other could be a nurse, and then scum NK'd that person.
One could be a paranoid doc, the other could be a quack doc, and then scum NK'd that person.

There are almost certainly scenarios I have missed off in both those situations.

I'm thinking that perhaps we should pair-off instead of going around in a big circle.

We lynch Player A.

Player B protects Player C.
Player C protects Player B.

Player D protects Player E.
Player E protects Player D.

Player F protects Player G.
Player G protects Player F.

Player H protects Player I.
Player I protects Player H.


This has the potential to be slightly more informative than a big circle, as we could have both players within a pairing dying, which would tell us for sure that at least one of them was a CPR/Quack.


We're definitely not straight-up claiming though, as that does not help AT ALL effectively, as shown in the spoilers above. It's either work out some hypo-doc'ing method, or just No Action.

[Hoppster]

IceGuy is

probably

town for arguing with his predecessor.


jilynne is probably scum by virtue of everybody else appearing relatively townier, and then I'm not completely sure who else.

DeityKabuto I'm getting mixed feelings about.

Frogboy (Hoppster), I am town you fucktard.

^Made me think he is town.

No feud. I just know that the game is better off without him.

Stfu you asshole. You are the lynch for today for wanting a mislynch.

^Made me think he is scum.

This is scum chkflip posting.

^Made me think he is town.

[...]

No, my guts know that this is you playing like a scum.

^Made me think he is scum.


I think I'm probably confident enough at this stage to say that the 2 scum are in:

{Jilynne, tim_hill, DeityKabuto, Moratorium}

Ordered in preference of lynch.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jilynne

Gogogogo people.

Plus I don't think 2v7 mountainous odds are good either.

I think I read that 2:10 is balanced. :/

[Hoppster]

In everybody's next post, they MUST do the following:

Either vote DeityKabuto, Hoppster, or not make a vote.

Hoppster, can I get an explanation from you as to what this was about in your original post?

Although perhaps unnecessary in hindsight, it was mainly to force people to take stances.


Going to read the Newman meta DK provided at some point.

[Hoppster]

Jilynne, who do you think we should lynch today?

[Hoppster]

Amrun: I thought I thoughted for jilynne here but have only just remembered the rule about using full names. >>

Eh, tim_hill works though too.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: tim_hill1990

Your vote probably won't count?

[Hoppster]

'Fraid so.

Would this system pretty much out some people as town though?

Can't really see town posting this as well.

[Hoppster]

Sorry for the delay in this, had a few connection issues (but they should be sorted out now).

@ everybody:

I've reconsidered my stance on the Nurse issue.

While admittedly we could be in lylo tomorow, I think this is extremely unlikely, and we may be able to put it off until tomorrow.

Thoughts?


UNVOTE:

VOTE: jilynne1991

Moratorium's post here gives me enough doubt coupled with some of my more 'iffy' feelings towards tim_hill that I'm going to go against numbers to push jilynne here.

The whole 'cast suspicion on this person because he is regarded as towny' thing which it feels like he is kinda doing with me is something I have been verrrry sorely tempted to do as newb-town (albeit in very different circumstances). I don't want to come across as arrogant, but most people seem to have me as town (or leaning-town at least) and I don't see (relatively) new scum being bold enough to try and go against the general consensus.


What do I see newb-scum doing?

Fence-sitting or voting opportunistically.

Who is fence-sitting?

Jilynne.

Yet to make a vote.


It's also awfully suspicious how I have posted a good few times that I have her as a scum-read and she hasn't addressed this at all.

[Hoppster]

Fence-sitting or voting opportunistically.

Curious.

What is your opinion of DK's quick-mishammer vote?

Very, very stupid, but town.

I don't deny that it was in some respects opportunistic, but really, I would have expected newb-scum to more and try and pass it off in a more sheepy way.

DK's posts have a common theme: I (DeityKabuto) am town.

A lot of his logic in his posts is made under the assumption of him being town. I don't think newb-scum would be able to keep up a charade of "OHAI GUYZ I AM TOWN"-logic so well.

I'll pull them together in a post when I'm finished catching up with other games.

Overall, I'm leaning town on him. His recent posts suggest to me that he is either town, or scum with Amrun (and I have both as town, anyhow - Amrun moreso).

[Hoppster]

HelloNewman is scum because of his agressive posting style and he will bite on anyone who questions his towniliness, like really. o.O

Umm.

Frogboy (Hoppster), I am town you fucktard.

No feud. I just know that the game is better off without him.

Stfu you asshole. You are the lynch for today for wanting a mislynch.

Newman, and Moratorium, off my wagon.

You don't want a mislynch today or do you?

Awwwwwwwkward.

(What I'm saying is that you're guilty of the same thing, and off the top of my head I'd say to a larger degree as well.)

Is Newman still scum for that?

[Hoppster]

EBWOP: Also, am I scum or town in your opinion?

[Hoppster]

You know...alot of things feel genuine. Isn't that what scum are best at?

...Poor nurse. This sucks, because scum can easily say their the nurse, but the real nurse will have a hard time. I highly suggest the genuine nurse to just hang back. (Like, not lurking, but don't say anything that makes it obvious you're the nurse.)

This post is scum trying to seem like they're helping.

Everybody needs to join the cool-jilynne-wagon.

DK, shut up, because you're distracting the town from lynching scum.

If you all ignore DK for a moment I'm sure you'll all realise how obvscum jilynne is.

I'm *always* hesitant to throw down votes.

Something I've noticed though, is that when people challenge me to vote them, their usually town, since scum doesn't want people to vote them.

Give me a few minutes and I'll try to write a case on you.

^ Fence-sitting scum

Ok, why not, let's lynch DK. He's not making sense, he's pointing random fingers at random people, and he's detrimental to the town.

That's reason enough to vote him:

Vote: DeityKabuto

^ Scum jumping on an easy bandwagon, contradicting their reason for fence-sitting earlier in the process.

With vote-hesitant town, I'm verrrry sceptical that they would be persuaded to vote for somebody simply on the basis of "OH THIS GUY IS ANNOYING".

With 'vote-hesitant' scum, of course, they can easily forget about their previous hesitation to vote.

Town who are "hesitant to throw down votes" do NOT vote with the attiute of "herpa derpa let's vote DK, I mean, why not?"

[Hoppster]

Everybody needs to makr a post in which they either CC Newman or don't.

No CC from me.

[Hoppster]

Forgot to say, I did indeed follow the plan.


I believe we're at 5:1 now. I'm thinking we should now either:

a) No Action at night (to make it 5:1 mountainous)

I'm not sure whether that's town favoured or not.

I actually suspect it may be scum-favoured, but thought I'd put it out there.


b) All collectively agree DURING THE DAY on a scummy player that we ALL TARGET at night.

I'll elaborate on B later today (but probably not for a good 8+ hours) as I'm off on a day trip to Sheffield today and it's something I'd much prefer to type on a computer keyboard over a phone keyboard. (You may get it earlier if I get really bored.)


c) Continue with hypo-doc'ing

Haven't thought through this one yet, but it probably has the potential to get quite messy.

[Hoppster]

a) No Action at night (to make it 5:1 mountainous)

I'm not sure whether that's town favoured or not.

I actually suspect it may be scum-favoured, but thought I'd put it out there.

No, this assumes no-lynch today.

Meh, not really.

If we all decide right now to not use our Night Actions, it is effectively Mountainous as of when we decide we won't use our Night Actions even if we haven't lynched at that point, because if we all traded in our Role PMs for VTs then nothing would change.

b) All collectively agree DURING THE DAY on a scummy player that we ALL TARGET at night.

I'll elaborate on B later today (but probably not for a good 8+ hours) as I'm off on a day trip to Sheffield today and it's something I'd much prefer to type on a computer keyboard over a phone keyboard. (You may get it earlier if I get really bored.)

I'm skeptical, but I'd need to see your elaboration, I'm concerned that there might be situations where all this does is protect the scummy target while allowing him to fulfill his nightkill.

Okay.

I thought about it, and the plan is significantly less awesome and is comparably easier to manipulate for scum if I reveal my logic.

It's still an okay plan if I do reveal my logic (and if people really want me to, I will) but the revealing of my logic shows (competent) scum how to manipulate the situation (having said that, even then it's still fairly difficult for them to accurately manipulate).

I will say that the plan has the potential to get very,

very

WIFOMy.

(Thinking about it now, the plan doesn't seem as awesome as I thought it was when I first thought of it.)



I am happy with a tim_hill lynch today.

No lynch until we've decided on a gameplan for tonight (assuming we don't win today of course).

[Hoppster]

LOL it's not like he was L1 or anything.

Not sure if serious?

[Hoppster]

tim_hill has declared V/LA in another game.



*twiddles thumbs*

Okay.

I thought about it, and the plan is significantly less awesome and is comparably easier to manipulate for scum if I reveal my logic.

^ Doesn't anybody care about this?

[Hoppster]

I thought you didn't want to discuss your plan.

Well, no. But I thought people would either be discussing whether to actually follow my secret plan or perhaps trying to get me to reveal it. I didn't expect nobody to care at all about it.

I too am getting a scumread from Amrun.

You're still voting tim_hill.


Moratorium: Is there any reason you ignored my super-awesome post yesterday?

Spoiler: Super Awesome Post

You know...alot of things feel genuine. Isn't that what scum are best at?

...Poor nurse. This sucks, because scum can easily say their the nurse, but the real nurse will have a hard time. I highly suggest the genuine nurse to just hang back. (Like, not lurking, but don't say anything that makes it obvious you're the nurse.)

This post is scum trying to seem like they're helping.

Everybody needs to join the cool-jilynne-wagon.

DK, shut up, because you're distracting the town from lynching scum.

If you all ignore DK for a moment I'm sure you'll all realise how obvscum jilynne is.

I'm *always* hesitant to throw down votes.

Something I've noticed though, is that when people challenge me to vote them, their usually town, since scum doesn't want people to vote them.

Give me a few minutes and I'll try to write a case on you.

^ Fence-sitting scum

Ok, why not, let's lynch DK. He's not making sense, he's pointing random fingers at random people, and he's detrimental to the town.

That's reason enough to vote him:

Vote: DeityKabuto

^ Scum jumping on an easy bandwagon, contradicting their reason for fence-sitting earlier in the process.

With vote-hesitant town, I'm verrrry sceptical that they would be persuaded to vote for somebody simply on the basis of "OH THIS GUY IS ANNOYING".

With 'vote-hesitant' scum, of course, they can easily forget about their previous hesitation to vote.

Town who are "hesitant to throw down votes" do NOT vote with the attiute of "herpa derpa let's vote DK, I mean, why not?"

Although I have no College-level knowledge of Critical Thinking, I am fairly certain it is difficult if not impossible to deduce anything that is not overly complicated or overly obvious.

Spoiler: Conclusions from NKs (simple)

• Amrun
  
• HellloooNewman
  
• tim_hill1990
  
• DeityKabuto
  
  
• IceGuy
  
  
• jilynne1991
  
  
• Mortatorium
  
• Hoppster
  
• Quilford

IceGuy was CPR or Quack.
tim_hill is not Paranoid (but contrary to what Quilford says could still be CPR or Quack).

Moratorium is not CPR or Quack.


As for there being 2 NKs out of the 3 potential NKs (and a 4th potential Weak Doc death), this means that any of the following could have occurred:

1. Scum NK target was same as one of the targets for CPR Doc or Quack Doc
   
2. Scum NK was target same as target of Normal Doc or Paranoid Doc
   
3. Scum carrying out the NK was targeted by Paranoid Doc

1. Weak Doc targeted town
   
2. Weak Doc was targeted by Paranoid Doc (and may have been targeting scum or town)

Spoiler: Conclusions from NKs (complicated)

Key

Sanity* is shorthand for Sanity (with the player above being a Paranoid Doctor [who thusly RB'd the player]).

tim_hill

Could be Mafia, Normal, Weak, CPR*, Quack*, Naive.

If Mafia, Newman could be Normal, Weak*, CPR*, Quack* or Naive.
If Normal, Newman could be Mafia, Weak, CPR*, Quack* or Naive.
If Weak, Newman could be Mafia, Normal, CPR*, Quack* or Naive.
If CPR, Newman is Paranoid.
If Quack, Newman is Paranoid.
If Naive, Newman could be Mafia, Normal, Weak, CPR* or Quack*.

[Hoppster]

DAMNIT

Pressed submit instead of preview.

Disregard the last spoiler (which is still under construction).

[Hoppster]

Spoiler: Conclusions from NKs (complicated) Part 1

Key

Sanity* is shorthand for Sanity, but with the player above being a Paranoid Doctor [who thusly RB'd the player].

• Amrun
  
• HellloooNewman
  
• tim_hill1990
  
• DeityKabuto
  
  
• IceGuy
  
  
• jilynne1991
  
  
• Mortatorium
  
• Hoppster
  
• Quilford

tim_hill

Could be Mafia, Normal, Weak, CPR*, Quack* or Naive.

If tim_hill Mafia, Newman could be Normal, Weak*, CPR*, Paranoid, Quack* or Naive.
If tim_hill Mafia, IceGuy could be CPR or Quack. NK would be sent by either tim_hill or jilynne. If sent by tim_hill, Newman is not Paranoid. The NK target was IceGuy.

If tim_hill Normal, Newman is Paranoid.
If tim_hill Normal, IceGuy could be CPR or Quack. NK would be sent by either [other Mafia] or jilynne. The NK target was IceGuy.

If tim_hill Weak, Newman is Paranoid.
If tim_hill Weak, IceGuy could be CPR or Quack. NK would be sent by either [other Mafia] or jilynne. The NK target was IceGuy.

If tim_hill CPR, Newman could be Mafia, Normal, Weak or Paranoid.
If tim_hill CPR, IceGuy is Quack. NK would be sent by either [other Mafia] or jilynne. The NK target would not be IceGuy.

If tim_hill Quack, Newman could be Mafia, Normal, Weak or Paranoid.
If tim_hill Quack, IceGuy is CPR. NK would be sent by either [other Mafia] or jilynne. The NK target was IceGuy.

If tim_hill Naive, Newman could be Mafia, Normal, Weak, CPR*, Paranoid or Quack*.
If tim_hill Naive, IceGuy could be CPR or Quack. NK would be sent by either [other Mafia] or jilynne. The NK target was IceGuy.

Newman

Could be Mafia, Normal, Weak, CPR*, Paranoid, Quack* or Naive.

If Newman Mafia, Amrun could be Normal, Weak*, CPR*, Paranoid, Quack* or Naive.
If Newman Mafia, tim_hill could be CPR, Quack or Naive. NK would be sent by either Newman or jilynne. If sent by Newman, Amrun is not Paranoid. If the NK target was IceGuy, tim_hill is not CPR.

If Newman Normal, Amrun could be Mafia, Weak, CPR*, Paranoid, Quack* or Naive.
If Newman Normal, tim_hill could be Mafia, CPR, Quack or Naive. NK would be sent by either [other Mafia] or jilynne. If the NK target was IceGuy, tim_hill is not CPR.

If Newman Weak, Amrun could be Mafia, Normal, CPR*, Paranoid, Quack* or Naive.
If Newman Weak, tim_hill could be Mafia, CPR, Quack or Naive. If tim_hill is Mafia, Newman is Weak*. NK would be sent by either [other Mafia] or jilynne. If the NK target was IceGuy, tim_hill is not CPR.

If Newman CPR, Amrun is Paranoid.
If Newman CPR, tim_hill could be Mafia or Naive. NK would be sent by either [other Mafia] or jilynne. The NK target was IceGuy.

If Newman Quack, Amrun is Paranoid.
If Newman Quack, tim_hill could be Mafia or Naive. NK would be sent by either [other Mafia] or jilynne. The NK target was IceGuy.

If Newman Naive, Amrun could be Mafia, Normal, Weak, CPR*, Paranoid or Quack*.
If Newman Naive, tim_hill could be Mafia or Quack. NK would be sent by either [other Mafia] or jilynne. The NK target was IceGuy.

Amrun

Could be Mafia, Normal, Weak, CPR*, Paranoid, Quack* or Naive.

If Amrun Mafia, Quilford could be Normal, Weak*, CPR*, Paranoid, Quack* or Naive.
If Amrun Mafia, Newman could be Normal, Weak or Naive. NK would be sent by either Amrun or jilynne.

If Amrun Normal, Quilford could be Mafia, Weak, CPR*, Paranoid, Quack* or Naive.
If Amrun Normal, Newman could be Mafia, Weak or Naive. NK would be sent by either [other Mafia] or jilynne.

If Amrun Weak, Quilford could be Mafia, Normal, CPR*, Paranoid, Quack* or Naive.
If Amrun Weak, Newman could be Mafia, Normal or Naive. If Newman is Mafia, Amrun is Weak*. NK would be sent by either [other Mafia] or jilynne.

If Amrun CPR, Quilford is Paranoid.
If Amrun CPR, Newman could be Mafia, Normal, Weak or Naive. NK would be sent by either [other Mafia] or jilynne.

If Amrun Paranoid, Quilford could be Mafia, Normal, Weak, CPR or Naive.
If Amrun Paranoid, Newman could be Mafia, Normal, Weak, CPR, Quack or Naive. NK would be sent by either [other Mafia] or jilynne.

If Amrun Quack, Quilford is Paranoid.
If Amrun Quack, Newman could be Mafia, Normal, Weak or naive. NK would be sent by either [other Mafia] or jilynne.

I'm not sure if this is a wise use of time.

Basically, the gist of it is that if Player B is Quack/CPR (Player B is not IceGuy or tim_hill), Player A (above Player B) must be Paranoid, and then tim_hill must be Naive or Mafia (I think?).

Everything else is just a tedious series of "if X, then Y" etc.

Might try to get Part 2 up later but I'm not really sure what exactly of value we're getting from this.

[Hoppster]

Moratorium: Is there any reason you ignored my super-awesome post yesterday?

Not sure what this means, are you looking for validation?

I just made a super-awesome post pointing out how obvious scum jilynne was, and you didn't comment on it at all.

I'm curious.

Did you not believe I was correct? Why didn't you try to correct me?

[Hoppster]

jilynne1991: Every post, especially early on, is either an apology, an expression of confusion, or mild reactions to other people. No votes in any direction this game yet, nothing that I could pin down as aggressive scumhunting. No effort? Signature says 13 and 10+ games, could be a lie to stay low content, but could be the truth and explain it. Leaning scum.

So what kind of comment were you looking for? Which is why I asked, were you looking for some sort of validation? Is it important to you that we be made aware that you were lining up a case on someone that ended up flipping scum?

No, you're missing the point completely.

I had a case on jilynne. I was clearly convinced jilynne was scum.

However, you continued to push DK. Is it not of relevance to address why you felt my case on jilynne was inadequate to convince you immediately? Or to even acknowledge my post (obviously I'm not talking about acknowledging it

now

, but I mean at the time)?

[Hoppster]

Hoppster: what do you hope to achieve by targetting one scummy player? It's 50/50 our quack is already dead, assuming that would resolve first in the first place.

Not sure whether I posted it before, but I changed my mind: the plan doesn't achieve a great deal and is open to a degree of scum interference.

(It didn't involve the Quack Doctor though FWIW.)

[Hoppster]

I had a case on jilynne. I was clearly convinced jilynne was scum.

However, you continued to push DK. Is it not of relevance to address why you felt my case on jilynne was inadequate to convince you immediately? Or to even acknowledge my post (obviously I'm not talking about acknowledging it

now

, but I mean at the time)?

You put forth a post, #327, which basically sheeped things that I'd said about jilynne a week previous ("fence-sitting"). The post immediately preceding yours, #326, I'm asking for scumreads from Jilynne because my main beef was her lack of effort and no votes in any direction. Are you somehow insulted that I didn't deem your particular post rehashing the same ideas necessary to respond to? I don't get it.

So again, are you looking to have your opinions publicly validated, or are you trying to stir attention to the fact that you had a case on flipped scum?

>>

Nvm. I'm not going to get you to see it however I phrase myself.

However...

So again, are you looking to have your opinions publicly validated, or are you trying to stir attention to the fact that you had a case on flipped scum?

^ This undoubtedly carries a tone of suspicion (I'm not trying to get town-cred, but that's irrelevant because you clearly think I am), however, why is it then that you did not bat an eyelid at this post from Quilford?

WHAT DID I TELL YOU ABOUT JILYNNE BEING SCUM

WHAT DID I TELL YOU

in other news: fuck yeah

(which was why I was looking for the logical exercises Hoppster was putting together, and wouldn't mind him finishing)

Mehhhh.

If I stop being lazy, I might do this.


I think Amrun could be town based on jilynne's very first post, as crazy as that sounds.

The first thing that set me off on jilynne-scum was the sheeping of #5 - N, Null. This was sheeped from Amrun. Trying to think about Newb-scum, I think even Newb-scum would be aware enough not to just blindly sheep their scumbuddy but I can certainly see newb-scum sheeping town.

The two also have interactions that I would not expect from newb-scum and scumbuddy.


Leaning-town read on tim_hill today. Mehhh.

Once I eventually get that second half of possibilities up, I'm wondering whether it might be advantageous to No Lynch and then Hypo-doc through the player list (except in reverse order to maximise information gained).

I myself am not feeling that confident that we will lynch scum in 2 lynches with no information gained. I'm getting all sorts of conflicting information from all players and different sources and it is boggling my brain and my reads.

[Hoppster]

That post lacks reads - even conflicting ones.

I didn't include them because there's no point in saying "OH I THINK QUILFORD COULD BE SCUM BECAUSE OF THIS BUT HE COULD ALSO BE TOWN", and it achieves nothing at all.

jilynne's posts suggest that either you or tim_hill are scum.
They also slightly suggest that you are town.
Your posts mean you are probably town.
tim_hill's posts today make me think he is probably town.

jilynne's posts suggest that Moratorium is town.
My gut thinks he is scum.

jilynne's posts suggest that Quilford could be scum or town depending on whether she's bad-scum or forgetful-scum respectively. I'm leaning towards the latter bearing in mind the context, but I really don't know.


Won't bother explaining them because that'd be a waste of my effort bearing in mind how counter-productive the end result would be - a justification of me saying "everybody could be town or scum" (even Newman, there's a slight chance he could be scum and got lucky with IceGuy being Nurse, but him claiming off the bat means it's unlikely... but the chance is still there).

So again, are you looking to have your opinions publicly validated, or are you trying to stir attention to the fact that you had a case on flipped scum?

^ This undoubtedly carries a tone of suspicion...

I agree. You're also not directly answering the actual question I'm asking you. Second time, now.

What the hell are you talking about? If you're reading my posts, I don't explicitly state it but it's quite clear I think it's neither of them.

You're trying to force me into a false dilemma here, and one that's pretty obviously wrong as well.

VOTE: Moratorium

So your actual answer to "Are you trying to make sure we are aware of your vote?" is "Well, what about that guy?".

I'm not trying to get town-cred, but that's irrelevant because you clearly think I am

That's no.

I'm also really curious about the "town-cred, but that's irrelevant because you clearly think I am" comment, because I'd characterize my questioning of you as... I dunno... tame? Passive-aggressive? Less than full-tilt scumhunting? So your reaction seems a bit out of proportion to me so far.

... what?

How is that out of proportion? If you're town, I'm stating a fact, which is certainly not out of proportion.

What is your read on Quilford and Moratorium?

Quilford - leaning town.

Moratorium - scum based on posts (largely gut today aside), town based on jilynne's posts, but obviously nobody even cares about my suggestion that we No Lynch today and then hypo-doc so you are my preferred lynch for today.

[Hoppster]

Can't say I was trying to force you into anything, I'm asking questions. You are adverse to directly answering questions, which I don't like.

All your reads are "well I think you are either town or scum", even the one you voted on. Your "justification" is pretty laughable. Don't like it.

Lots of "woe is me, no one is listening to me, won't bother explaining my thought process" in your posts. Don't like that.

It looks like a pre-emptive OMGUS vote once you saw my reads laid out. Don't like that.

vote Hoppster

No, you really were pushing the false dilemma way to hard.

You were forcing me into it, because I chose not to answer ("You're missing the point" or words to that effect), because to answer your question would be to say I was one of the two options you laid out, when it was neither.

The reads were in response to Amrun. I didn't want to post them (as I alluded to) but felt obliged to after she commented on my lack of reads.

pedit: amrun is almost definitely scum

VOTE: Amrun

Because she agreed with Newman?



Amrun's plan seems much, much better than hypo-doc'ing.

I actually really, really like it.


Scum is pretty much guaranteed to be in Moratorium or Quilford by PoE, so this game should be an auto-win at this point even if we don't use Amrun's plan. The lazy person in me wants to just power-lynch the two and not bother with cases.

tim_hill-scum deserves a win after today, and I just cannot bring myself to entertain Amrun-scum. It's just not in me to lynch the person who is genuinely providing nearly all content. Although I have had gut twinges, really, I would much rather lose to Amrun-scum than take the risk of looking like absolutely stupid-town by lynching the only townsperson single-handedly stopping this turning into a lurk-fest (which looks pretty likely to me if we lynch Amrun).

[Hoppster]

Do you agree to target Newman, Hoppster?

Yup.


Amrun - it's possible that scum

did

try to kill you (and was foiled by Quilford-protect). Both deaths last night could have been town-originated.

[Hoppster]

I can't decide whether it's scum-Amrun attempting to take advantage of Hoppster <-> Moratorium, or whether it's town-frustrated-Amrun

trying to squeeze blood out of a rock.

Forgive me, I'm not familiar with that expression. Although I have a rough idea of what you're trying to say, I don't see how it (my 'rough idea') is applicable to this situation, so you're going to have to explain it.

[Hoppster]

He means I am trying to make a case that isn't there - but there isn't a good case to be made on any single player left, so that defense is meh.

Moratorium, from your absence of a correction I presume this is correct?

I'm actually

kinda

wondering about Quilford now, i've seen

mostly

flakey play from him.
The main thing that stands out for me is his defence of DK after the lynch, seems like it

could be

an attempt to gain town cred.
Defending me, while good for me

seems like

a similar ploy.
I also get a

kind of

coasting feel from his play, seems

very much like

trying to fade into the background, rather than become directly involved.
Mostly speculation here though.

OH MY GOD

LYNCH IT
LYNCH IT WITH

FIRE

I don't think this is a scum-tell, certainly not the extent that you seem to believe it is. I have done (probably still do) this as town - if anything, I think I'm less inclined to do this as scum.

Provided we do something stupid like not lynching scum, you all do realise that Hoppster will be NK'd, right?

Hoppster NK is better than a Newman NK.


Quilford's recent very town-looking posts make me much more confident in Moratorium's scumflip.

Quilford is no longer auto-lynch if Moratorium is not scum (which at this point I find fairly difficult to believe).

[Hoppster]

Shit, Amrun, that's terrible. Thanks for letting us know, I guess. My thoughts are with you and your family.

------------------------------------------------

Oh, man, walls.

Quote walls.

Quote wall wars.

Intra-quote wall wars.

Intra-quote multi-format wall wars.


This is going to take some reading.


tim_hill's "LOL QUILFORD WHY U FLAIL" looked just like the kind of scum-flail post that he'd earned mega-townpoints earlier for avoiding.

Having super-skimmed the walls however, he does have a point in that Quilford's manipulation of the chronology of the posts (well at least in the one example I looked at) does make him (tim_hill) look worse than he would otherwise.

Moratorium still my preferred lynch.


Case:

Meh. Nothing paticularly substantial, however, bad gut feeling about him all game.

He's also notably the only player who hasn't, at some point or other, impressed me with his towniness. All other players alive have had phases where I've looked at their posts and thought "Wow, this is awesomely town" - not necessarily consistently, but it has happened. Not with Moratorium.

I've got a couple of non-gut points which I'll get up tomorrow.

[Hoppster]

Still happy with my Moratorium vote.

Mod: V/LA Friday-Sunday (inclusive). Sorry for lack of notice.

Those of you wanting a non-gut case on Mor will need to wait until late-Sunday/Monday, Sowwy.

[Hoppster]

b) All collectively agree DURING THE DAY on a scummy player that we ALL TARGET at night.

Amrun, my plan is better. If we all target the same person several helpful things will happen.

1) That person will not be able to be killed.
2) That person (if they are Mafia) will not be able to kill that night: the Paranoid Doctor will be targeting them.
3) If the targeted person is Mafia the weak doc will die.

We can then deduce the Mafioso by exactly who was killed.

Your plan just relies on random chance and doesn't provide us with any useful information.

'Zis is basically my plan from earlier.

It has flaws which I realised earlier and I greatly prefer Amrun's plan.

Firstly, (if town) Moratorium may be the Paranoid Doctor.
Moratorium may also be the Weak Doctor.

The plan will result in 0-2 deaths.

0 deaths, we cannot solidly confirm anything. Scum could have chosen to No Kill, scum could have been RB'd (which would mean the Weak Doc is dead).

1 death, we cannot solidly confirm anything. Scum could have made the kill, or the weak doc could have been targetting scum.

2 deaths, okay, scum made the NK and the (still-alive) Weak Doc targeted scum with us. This is the only beneficial scenario though and it is an extremely unlikely one, because:

Given that we all have to agree on a NK target beforehand, scum know whether they are being targetted or not. Should they be targeted, they choose to No Kill to avoid themselves being obvious-scum with 2 deaths the next day.


This is too easy for scum to manipulate, and the end result will be either Newman dead or some WIFOM for us. Nothing useful.

Amrun's plan has the outside chance of Newman being Paranoid and blocking scum (or protecting town from NK) - both getting us one extra lynch, or being a killing Doc and killing (hopefully scum).

Before the day ends, I'd like to see everyone who is on this wagon give their own personal reasoning for their vote, preferably including an ISO read of me throughout the game.

That will surely be profitable for whomever is still alive tomorrow.

Overall, it's gut. There's a few minor points I've got against you here and there (WHICH I WILL GET UP TOMORROW I SWEAR) but largely it is gut.

UNVOTE:

Don't want to go into night doing Quilford's/my original plan.

[Hoppster]

'Kay, so, umm, looked through Moratorium's ISO, and, yeah.

Nothing incredibly scummy I can see (his pushing of the false dilemma aside, which even then is only moderately scummy).

Sooooo...

Yeah.

Ummmmmm.

Sorrrrry 'bout that.


However, I'm going to re-iterate my point before though in that Moratorium is the only player alive who hasn't at any point impressed me with his towniness. The whole game, he's been pretty null/leaning-town for me but leaning scum on gut. Really can't put my finger on it, but I suppose that's the problem with gut.

Granted, there are players alive who perhaps would have more substance in a case against them, but equally they have more towny posts to them than Moratorium.

Even ignoring my bad gut feeling and putting Moratorium at a null-read, it just seems more likely that scum would be a null-read rather than a strong (albeit inconsistent) read.


Amrun I was flip-flopping to an extent beforehand but I've settled on Amrun-town now.

Quilford and tim_hill are, well, Quilford and tim_hill. Inconsistent reads on both throughout the day. tim_hill probably started townier and then has gradually been scummier while it's

kinda

been the reverse for Quilford.

However, both have had posts where I can point to them and say "this gives me a town/scum-vibe" (both sides of the spectrum).

All of Moratorium's posts are, well, impressively null. There are basically no posts I can point to and say "YAH ME LIKE/NO LIKE THIS POST BECAUSE BLAH BLAH BLAH".

[Hoppster]

Someone hammer Mora. Tonight, we all target Tim, and Tim targets me.

Do it.

'K then.

VOTE: Moratorium

Didn't realise the plan involved Tim targetting you. Happier with it now than I was before.

(Not hammer, L-1. I unvoted earlier.)

Vote tim, please. With Hoppster's 'oh derp I don't actually have a case' the choice should now be obvious.

I HAVE GUT

Seriously, my gut wants this lynch more than it wants Yakult.

Stop being such a spoilsport.

[Hoppster]

VOTE: Moratorium
Hammer time, to

confirm everyone is to target me tonight

, and I will be targetting Newman for protection

Hummmmm.

Idongedit.


Assuming we don't win right now:

Dear Quilford's replacement, please don't be an ass, read the thread and our awesome plans and stick to them kthx.

[Hoppster]

HURRAH FOR GUT

CASES ARE FOR LOSERS

Good game, Moratorium (jilynne, not so much ).

Scum are DeityKabuto and jilynne (failing that, Moratorium).

Discuss.

This was pretty win, Hoppster.

iknorite

Really, I was 100%, considering how DeityKabuto was practically playing for scum.


TBH, although we were very lazy at times (Amrun aside) I think we had a fairly strong town (in terms off giving off town-tells at least).


Also:

Mortarium became the subject of much paranoia

[...]

HOPPSTER - Survived - PARANOID DOCTOR

ICWHUTUDIDTHAR

Thanks for modding AntB, I was impressed with the way you handled all the setup-based questions.

[Hoppster]

Oh, and, apologies for wrecking the beginning of the game for everybody. I don't know what I was thinking.

[Hoppster]

Newman's play was awesome awesomeness awesomesauce.

[Hoppster]

Newman's play was awesome awesomeness awesomesauce.

I'm picking up on your sarcasm.

Seems like I'm getting a bunch of hate from this game. I really don't understand why?

No, it wasn't sarcasm.

This isn't sarcasm either.