OPEN 310 - Medical Mafia - TOWN WIN
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Hoppster Mafia Scum
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Hoppster Mafia Scum
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What does everybody think about Hypo-Doc'ing?
We say who we would protect if we were a doctor (of course 2 of us are mafia and 1 is a nurse).
We don't give scum information because not only don't we know our own sanities, but they don't know our sanities either.
However, it helps us to work out who must be what sanity from deaths and whatnot.
We would have to go around in a circle, methinks. Player A hypo-docs Player B, who hypo-docs Player C, etc...
It's more effective this way, rather than having two people hypo-doc'ing the same player. A death doesn't tell us as much if three people were hypo-doc'ing a person who dies as it does if just one person was hypo-doc'ing that person, imo.
Also, I think the Nurse should claim. We can confirm a townie this way.
Quilford's pre-game shenanigansmayconfirm him as town as well, now I think about it.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: DeityKabuto
In everybody's next post, theydo the following:MUST
- Say Y/N to hypo-doc. NB:No discussionon "Why should we?" or "I don't understand it!"
If either of those two is the case, then just say N, and we'll discuss/explain it further after everybody has said Y/N. I want to see who says Y/N right off the bat with minimal discussion. - Y to hypo-doc does not necessarily mean it has to be done as I set out above. Y means agreeing to some sort of hypo-doc, N means disagreeing to any sort of hypo-doc.
- Say Y/N to Nurse claim. (As above, no discussion, just Y/N.)
- Either vote DeityKabuto, Hoppster, or not make a vote.
NB: In the mod's rules, it states you should use the player's full username when voting. Everybody should do this. I don't want any 'trick' votes where you don't use the full username because you know it won't count. - If you mustmake a RVS vote for the sake of RVS, then you are allowed to, provided you then unvote your RVS vote (and possibly vote DeityKabuto or Hoppster).
- Not talk about any suspicious/dodgy behaviour until everybody has completed these instructions.
Exception: You are allowed to whine if you thinkIam being scummy or overcontrolling. NOBODY else. Even then, try to keep it brief, please. It'd still be much better and more pro-town if you waited until everybody has posted and followed these instructions. We want to keep discussion to a minimum.
RVS is over. If you enjoy it, tough luck.
a) Y
b) Y
c) Done.
d) 'K.
@ Mod: Do Doctors flip/reveal Sanity upon death? Or just 'Doctor'?Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Hoppster Mafia Scum
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Hoppster wrote:@ Mod: Do Doctors flip/reveal Sanity upon death? Or just 'Doctor'?
Reposting this so it doesn't get lost in the wave of bold in my above post.
I honestly can't think of any pro-town reason not to humour me and do what I say, so even if you vehemently disagree and think I'm an idiot, please just follow my instructions and then you can shout at me once everybody has finished.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Hoppster Mafia Scum
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Hoppster Mafia Scum
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Actually, thinking about it, forget e.
I think it's still valid, but it's pushing Rule 5 to its limits, so we probably shouldn't use it.
Plus, there are bound to be some people who say it's against the spirit of the game, yadda yadda.
Still want a, b, c & d done though.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Hoppster Mafia Scum
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Hoppster Mafia Scum
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Hoppster wrote:Actually, thinking about it, forget e.
I think it's still valid, but it's pushing Rule 5 to its limits, so we probably shouldn't use it.
Plus, there are bound to be some people who say it's against the spirit of the game, yadda yadda.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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a. Hypo-doc, do we do it or not (Y/N)? Briefly explained in my post here.
If you still don't understand it, then say N.
DeityKabuto wrote:can't we have a normal RVS?
Yeah, thought about it, and, eh. Feel free to make a 'tee-hee' RVS vote. I thought about it, and I decided there's no paticular point in making you unvote after it as well, so... yeah. I'm relaxing the 'rules' on C slightly.
Remember, minimal discussion would be cool, folks.
We need to hear from the two people with dates in their names (1990 and 1991) and chk, and then I'll stop being such a spoil-sport.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Huzzah!
Hoppster wrote:Ah, got another instruction for y'all.
e. Y/N - Do you agree that Quilford's pre-game shenanigans suggest he is likely town?
(Again, no discussion plzkthx.)
If you'd all be so kind as to answer this now, then.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Hoppster Mafia Scum
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Hoppster Mafia Scum
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Hoppster Mafia Scum
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Hoppster Mafia Scum
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Hoppster Mafia Scum
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1) We'll have plenty to discuss after.
2) This is NOT RQS. These questions arecompletelyand wholly relevant to the game.
3) What? That's part of the questions. That's what I want everybody to give their opinion on. If you disagree, then you just say No to question B or whatever it was. Then we discuss it after.
4) No, claiming outright gives mafia far too much wriggle room. This locks them into what they have to play along with.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Hoppster Mafia Scum
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chkflip wrote:I think it worked out pretty well in the previous game of this fashion that I was in (see link), but you're entitled to your opinion. I also understand where you're coming from with the whole "let's PL the VI," but we don't have a big enough playerlist for all that.
So, care to share why you opened with that?
At no point have I gone "OHH LET'S PL THE VI".
We can discuss all my opening shenanigans in further detail just as soon as you do what I ask. If you feel I have been pushing for a Policy Lynch, we can discuss that just as soon as you do what I ask. If you feel that outright claiming is much better than hypo-cop, you can argue your case just as soon as you do what I ask.
One of your points was "It's stifling discussion" - but as shown, we'll have PLENTY to discuss after you just satisfy my demands, whether I am wrong or right. I may very well be a complete idiot, but on the off-chance that I am NOT being a complete idiot, there is NOTHING to be lost by just following what I'm saying.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Yeah, okay, so, sorry to everybody about me being such a huge spoilsport.
Checking over the thread, I have realised that DK escaped answering a, which is disappointing. The whole point of it was to do it with minimal discussion though, and with chk's huge rant, getting an answer from DK now would be useless. So, thanks for that, chk.
Got a few more questions for specific people.Only the people I am asking should answer.
@ jilynne - What makes you think Quilford not confirming is null?
@ chk - You're clearly very suspicious of me, so why no vote?
@ DK:DeityKabuto wrote:Hopster town credits drained
What did you mean by this?
@ moratorium:Moratorium wrote:e. N (assuming we're thinking along the same lines)
What lines were you thinking along (wait until jilynne has answered her question, ta)?
chkflip wrote:So... still waiting on that.
On which bit exactly?
I never called for a Policy Lynch. DK was simply the first non-Hoppster non-Quilford wagon I saw.
Okay, hypo-doc'ing.
Basically, I believe we should go in a circle (as previously mentioned), with nobody being hypo-doc'd more than once, because it greatly narrows down the possibilities if only one person claims to hypo-doc each person.
Otherwise, 2 people hypo-doc 1 person. That person does not die. This tells usnothing, essentially. There are so many possibilities.
1 could be CPR, 1 could be quack.
1 could be a paranoid doc, 1 could be a normal doc.
1 could be a paranoid doc, 1 could be a naive doc.
1 could be a paranoid doc, 1 could be a weak doc.
1 could be a naive doc, 1 could be a normal doc.
1 could be a naive doc, 1 could be a weak doc.
1 could be normal doc, 1 could be quack.
1 could be a normal doc, 1 could be a weak doc.
1 could be nurse, 1 could be normal doc.
1 could be nurse, 1 could be naive doc.
1 could be nurse, 1 could be paranoid doc.
1 could be nurse, 1 could be weak doc.
Both could be scum who chose to NK somebody else.
One could be scum who chose to NK that person, the other could be a normal doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK that person, the other could be a paranoid doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK that person, the other could be a CPR doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a normal doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a naive doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a weak doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a paranoid doc.
One could be scum who chose to NK somebody else, the other could be a nurse.
There's probably more that I've missed. But you get the idea.
There areprobablyeven more possibilities with 3 people hypo-doc'ing.
And then this leads onto the idea of just straight up claiming results post-flip. If Person X says he doc'd Person Y, and Person Y is still alive, all scum have to do is say they also doc'd Person Y. Because that opens up the multitude of possibilities as shown above.
I have mixed feelings on the nurse claiming. What chk said is true, I would expect the Nurse to die N1. However, this will be informative, because it will tell us more information about the person who ended up hypo-doc'ing the nurse and what sanity they could be.
It also prevents nasty lylo situations where somebody claims nurse. If the nurse is still alive, they CC. If itisthe nurse, scum could CC. This puts us in a horrible 50/50, which I really want to avoid. Thus I think it better for nurse to claim now (scum are also less likely to CC now, I would expect, but if they do we catch one scum).
Reminder: Nurse should not claim yet while we're still discussing this.
So, plenty to discuss, everybody.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Quilford wrote:If it's agreed we hypodoc, which I am 200% for, I think every player should hypodoc the player directly below them in the playerlist (obviously I'll hypodoc Amrun). This stops scum from potentially building strategies to 'cheat' the hypodoc.
Yep, this is what I was thinking.
I was also considering a 'popcorn style' hypo-doc (each person hypo-doc's the person they popcorn to), but the player list is probably the better way.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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As an addendum to my arguments against straight-up claiming here: straight-up claiming also means it is likely that two town docs will target the same person, and again we're left in a situation of minimal information from that (as shown in the huge number of possibilities for their sanities/alignments should the person survive).
Hypo-doc'ing just basically prevents the scenario of two people doc'ing the same person and that person surviving, which is basically a waste of a night imo.
P-Edit: DAMNIT MORATORIUM (wow, I took a long time typing this out.)
Now she can just sheep your logic. >>
Not what I was thinking, though, FWIW. I will reveal once jilynne has answered.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Amrun wrote:I also said it was null, ftr.
Hypodoc still a yes from me. 1st night doing the playerlist thing is okay but at some point we need to move away from that, asap.
If the nurse claims, I'd rather it be d2 so we have some interactions to build off of.
Yeah, I know. However, you didn't add the "if I'm thinking along the same lines as you" bit that Moratorium added, and you didn't look like you were just blindly sheeping as Jilynne did.
Problem with Nurse claiming D2 is that we could be in lylo tomorrow - 9 alive atm, but then 3 potential night kills (CPR, Quack, Scum) + lynch. And that's the whole situation I want to avoid, the nurse lylo CC-shenanigans.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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AntB wrote:Setup Information
Roles:
- 2 Mafia Goons
- 1 "Normal" Doctor
- 1 Weak Doctor - Dies if (s)he protects the Mafia
- 1 CPR Doctor - Protects against any kill, otherwise kills the patient
- 1 Paranoid Doctor - Also blocks the patient
- 1 Quack Doctor - Kills the patient
- 1 Naive Doctor - Doesn't really do anything
- 1 Nurse - Backup Doctor (Becomes the first doctor role that dies)
Slightly different to the wiki for some roles' effects.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Oh, crap, and the weak doc too. Hadn't thought about that.
We could actually lose if we mislynch today.
7:2 -> 6:2
Weak doc targets scum, CPR & Quack doc target town
6:2 -> 3:2
Scum NK target is not the Paranoid/Normal/CPR Doc protection, or Doc protecting NK target gets RB'd by Paranoid Doc
3:2 -> 2:2
o.0
Well, that's still pretty damn unlikely... right?
I'll think this through a bit more.
@ Mod: Can the Mafia NK be RB'd - do the Mafia have to choose a member to send in the NK? It's not clear in the sample PMs whether the Mafia actually have to designate somebody to carry out the kill.
P-Edit: Ninja'd.
Good idea though. Nurse only claims before the hammer, ie. after the person being hammered has claimed.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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chkflip wrote:Hypo-doc'ing is nothing but more WIFOM and allows scum even more wiggle room than actually claiming our real doctor protections because there are only so many scenarios that can happen. We're going to cross-protect, stop kills, create kills, etc etc. Hypo-doc'ing gets us nowhere with that but some fake/worthless discussion that fluffs the thread.
How does hypo-doc'ing create any more WIFOM than claiming real doctor protections?
It's just claiming real doctor protections... but in advance.
I fail to see how that creates more WIFOM.
Claiming real doc protections is, as I've said before, giving us practically no information, because the chances are high more than one person will claim to protect the same person.
Spoiler: Possible scenarios if 2 people claim to target Player X (alive)
Spoiler: Possible scenarios if 2 people claim to protect Player Y (dead)
There are almost certainly scenarios I have missed off in both those situations.
Claiming protections the next day is useless unless we somehow manage to get both scum to claim first, because all scum have to do is then parrot the target of whoever has claimed before them.
Amrun wrote:Everyone else, discussion time is go, if you hadn't figured it out.
Yup.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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No, don't claim yet.
Don't claim who you will (hypothetically) be protecting yet either.
Half protecting and half not protecting isn't something I've considered yet.
I'll think about it, but my gut instinct is that would make it more complicated (although less risky), because we have to factor either both scum 'protecting', one scum 'protecting' or no scum 'protecting'.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Quilford wrote:Hoppster wrote:Scum are DeityKabuto and jilynne (failing that, Moratorium).
Discuss.
You're taking this from the way they sheeped your instructions (ie no questioning etc etc), I assume?
If so I'm inclined to agree. Also something strikes me as off re: DK's reaction to pressure but I'll reread soon to confirm my suspicions.
Not just that.
The way Jilynne sheeped in paticular the 'null' bit struck me as scummy.
DeityKabuto is partially PoE, partially the early doc-claim.
You're town not only for your "My pregame shenanigans don't really confirm me as town, but you can treat me as confirmed town anyway"... and also for pre-game shenanigans. Mod was actively looking to replace you, which meant you couldn't be scum posting in the scum QT (most Mods open scum QTs pre-game).
Newman is town for the way he disagreed with me got pissed off with me 'in charge'.
Amrun is town for the discussion.
Leaning town on chk for again disagreeing with me, but my town-read is hurt somewhat in that he didn't vote for me despite seemingly being so suspicious.
tim_hill pretty much null.
Moratorium also fairly null, but I have a bit of a gut scum-read.
P-Edit: Here be reasoning, Moratorium.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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chkflip wrote:Mor, explain how they're wishy-washy and I'll elaborate on how they aren't.
Now, how can hypoclaiming benefit scum more? They know who we're protecting, simple as. They already know who they are and who we are.
For example, lets go with the assumption that we're to use the plan of protecting the person below us on the player list. OH, LOOK AT THAT, the person below X died, that must mean they're one of the freak-accident doctors OR scum. That's on top of the quack doctor. The only 100% fool-proof tell is if the doctor that dies protecting a mafia goon dies... but even that could be WIFOM'd by the mafia since we won't be getting sanities from the flips. Broken down enough?
This is better than the multitude of possibilities arising from straight up real-claiming and how painfully easy that is to manipulate for scum.
[Edited slightly] Hoppster wrote:Spoiler: Possible scenarios if 2 people claim to target Player Y (alive)
Spoiler: Possible scenarios if 2 people claim to protect Player Y (dead)
There are almost certainly scenarios I have missed off in both those situations.
I'm thinking that perhaps we should pair-off instead of going around in a big circle.
We lynch Player A.
Player B protects Player C.
Player C protects Player B.
Player D protects Player E.
Player E protects Player D.
Player F protects Player G.
Player G protects Player F.
Player H protects Player I.
Player I protects Player H.
This has the potential to be slightly more informative than a big circle, as we could have both players within a pairing dying, which would tell us for sure that at least one of them was a CPR/Quack.
We're definitely not straight-up claiming though, as that does not help AT ALL effectively, as shown in the spoilers above. It's either work out some hypo-doc'ing method, or just No Action.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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IceGuy isprobablytown for arguing with his predecessor.
jilynne is probably scum by virtue of everybody else appearing relatively townier, and then I'm not completely sure who else.
DeityKabuto I'm getting mixed feelings about.
DeityKabuto wrote:Frogboy (Hoppster), I am town you fucktard.
^Made me think he is town.
DeityKabuto wrote:HellloooNewman wrote:No feud. I just know that the game is better off without him.
Stfu you asshole. You are the lynch for today for wanting a mislynch.
^Made me think he is scum.
DeityKabuto wrote:This is scum chkflip posting.
^Made me think he is town.
DeityKabuto wrote:
No, my guts know that this is you playing like a scum.HellloooNewman wrote:[...]
^Made me think he is scum.
I think I'm probably confident enough at this stage to say that the 2 scum are in:
{Jilynne, tim_hill, DeityKabuto, Moratorium}
Ordered in preference of lynch.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jilynne
Gogogogo people.
Amrun wrote:Plus I don't think 2v7 mountainous odds are good either.
I think I read that 2:10 is balanced. :/Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Moratorium wrote:Hoppster wrote:In everybody's next post, they MUST do the following:
Either vote DeityKabuto, Hoppster, or not make a vote.
Hoppster, can I get an explanation from you as to what this was about in your original post?
Although perhaps unnecessary in hindsight, it was mainly to force people to take stances.
Going to read the Newman meta DK provided at some point.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Amrun: I thought I thoughted for jilynne here but have only just remembered the rule about using full names. >>
Eh, tim_hill works though too.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: tim_hill1990
Your vote probably won't count?Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Sorry for the delay in this, had a few connection issues (but they should be sorted out now).
@ everybody:I've reconsidered my stance on the Nurse issue.
While admittedly we could be in lylo tomorow, I think this is extremely unlikely, and we may be able to put it off until tomorrow.
Thoughts?
UNVOTE:
VOTE: jilynne1991
Moratorium's post here gives me enough doubt coupled with some of my more 'iffy' feelings towards tim_hill that I'm going to go against numbers to push jilynne here.
The whole 'cast suspicion on this person because he is regarded as towny' thing which it feels like he is kinda doing with me is something I have been verrrry sorely tempted to do as newb-town (albeit in very different circumstances). I don't want to come across as arrogant, but most people seem to have me as town (or leaning-town at least) and I don't see (relatively) new scum being bold enough to try and go against the general consensus.
What do I see newb-scum doing?
Fence-sitting or voting opportunistically.
Who is fence-sitting?
Jilynne.
Yet to make a vote.
It's also awfully suspicious how I have posted a good few times that I have her as a scum-read and she hasn't addressed this at all.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Moratorium wrote:Hoppster wrote:
Fence-sitting or voting opportunistically.
Curious.
What is your opinion of DK's quick-mishammer vote?
Very, very stupid, but town.
I don't deny that it was in some respects opportunistic, but really, I would have expected newb-scum to more and try and pass it off in a more sheepy way.
DK's posts have a common theme: I (DeityKabuto) am town.
A lot of his logic in his posts is made under the assumption of him being town. I don't think newb-scum would be able to keep up a charade of "OHAI GUYZ I AM TOWN"-logic so well.
I'll pull them together in a post when I'm finished catching up with other games.
Overall, I'm leaning town on him. His recent posts suggest to me that he is either town, or scum with Amrun (and I have both as town, anyhow - Amrun moreso).Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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DeityKabuto wrote:HelloNewman is scum because of his agressive posting style and he will bite on anyone who questions his towniliness, like really. o.O
Umm.
DeityKabuto wrote:Frogboy (Hoppster), I am town you fucktard.DeityKabuto wrote:HellloooNewman wrote:No feud. I just know that the game is better off without him.
Stfu you asshole. You are the lynch for today for wanting a mislynch.DeityKabuto wrote:Newman, and Moratorium, off my wagon.
You don't want a mislynch today or do you?
Awwwwwwwkward.
(What I'm saying is that you're guilty of the same thing, and off the top of my head I'd say to a larger degree as well.)
Is Newman still scum for that?Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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jilynne1991 wrote:You know...alot of things feel genuine. Isn't that what scum are best at?
...Poor nurse. This sucks, because scum can easily say their the nurse, but the real nurse will have a hard time. I highly suggest the genuine nurse to just hang back. (Like, not lurking, but don't say anything that makes it obvious you're the nurse.)
This post is scum trying to seem like they're helping.
Everybody needs to join the cool-jilynne-wagon.
DK, shut up, because you're distracting the town from lynching scum.
If you all ignore DK for a moment I'm sure you'll all realise how obvscum jilynne is.
jilynne1991 wrote:I'm *always* hesitant to throw down votes.
Something I've noticed though, is that when people challenge me to vote them, their usually town, since scum doesn't want people to vote them.
Give me a few minutes and I'll try to write a case on you.
^ Fence-sitting scum
jilynne1991 wrote:Ok, why not, let's lynch DK. He's not making sense, he's pointing random fingers at random people, and he's detrimental to the town.
That's reason enough to vote him:Vote: DeityKabuto
^ Scum jumping on an easy bandwagon, contradicting their reason for fence-sitting earlier in the process.
With vote-hesitant town, I'm verrrry sceptical that they would be persuaded to vote for somebody simply on the basis of "OH THIS GUY IS ANNOYING".
With 'vote-hesitant' scum, of course, they can easily forget about their previous hesitation to vote.
Town who are "hesitant to throw down votes" do NOT vote with the attiute of "herpa derpa let's vote DK, I mean, why not?"Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Forgot to say, I did indeed follow the plan.
I believe we're at 5:1 now. I'm thinking we should now either:
a) No Action at night (to make it 5:1 mountainous)
I'm not sure whether that's town favoured or not.
I actually suspect it may be scum-favoured, but thought I'd put it out there.
b) All collectively agree DURING THE DAY on a scummy player that we ALL TARGET at night.
I'll elaborate on B later today (but probably not for a good 8+ hours) as I'm off on a day trip to Sheffield today and it's something I'd much prefer to type on a computer keyboard over a phone keyboard. (You may get it earlier if I get really bored.)
c) Continue with hypo-doc'ing
Haven't thought through this one yet, but it probably has the potential to get quite messy.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Moratorium wrote:Hoppster wrote:
a) No Action at night (to make it 5:1 mountainous)
I'm not sure whether that's town favoured or not.
I actually suspect it may be scum-favoured, but thought I'd put it out there.
No, this assumes no-lynch today.
Meh, not really.
If we all decide right now to not use our Night Actions, it is effectively Mountainous as of when we decide we won't use our Night Actions even if we haven't lynched at that point, because if we all traded in our Role PMs for VTs then nothing would change.
Moratorium wrote:Hoppster wrote:
b) All collectively agree DURING THE DAY on a scummy player that we ALL TARGET at night.
I'll elaborate on B later today (but probably not for a good 8+ hours) as I'm off on a day trip to Sheffield today and it's something I'd much prefer to type on a computer keyboard over a phone keyboard. (You may get it earlier if I get really bored.)
I'm skeptical, but I'd need to see your elaboration, I'm concerned that there might be situations where all this does is protect the scummy target while allowing him to fulfill his nightkill.
Okay.
I thought about it, and the plan is significantly less awesome and is comparably easier to manipulate for scum if I reveal my logic.
It's still an okay plan if I do reveal my logic (and if people really want me to, I will) but the revealing of my logic shows (competent) scum how to manipulate the situation (having said that, even then it's still fairly difficult for them to accurately manipulate).
I will say that the plan has the potential to get very,veryWIFOMy.
(Thinking about it now, the plan doesn't seem as awesome as I thought it was when I first thought of it.)
I am happy with a tim_hill lynch today.
No lynch until we've decided on a gameplan for tonight (assuming we don't win today of course).Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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tim_hill has declared V/LA in another game.
*twiddles thumbs*
Hoppster wrote:Okay.
I thought about it, and the plan is significantly less awesome and is comparably easier to manipulate for scum if I reveal my logic.
^ Doesn't anybody care about this?Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Amrun wrote:I thought you didn't want to discuss your plan.
Well, no. But I thought people would either be discussing whether to actually follow my secret plan or perhaps trying to get me to reveal it. I didn't expect nobody to care at all about it.
Quilford wrote:I too am getting a scumread from Amrun.
You're still voting tim_hill.
Moratorium: Is there any reason you ignored my super-awesome post yesterday?
Spoiler: Super Awesome Post
Although I have no College-level knowledge of Critical Thinking, I am fairly certain it is difficult if not impossible to deduce anything that is not overly complicated or overly obvious.
Spoiler: Conclusions from NKs (simple)
Spoiler: Conclusions from NKs (complicated)Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Hoppster should have wrote:Spoiler: Conclusions from NKs (complicated) Part 1
I'm not sure if this is a wise use of time.
Basically, the gist of it is that if Player B is Quack/CPR (Player B is not IceGuy or tim_hill), Player A (above Player B) must be Paranoid, and then tim_hill must be Naive or Mafia (I think?).
Everything else is just a tedious series of "if X, then Y" etc.
Might try to get Part 2 up later but I'm not really sure what exactly of value we're getting from this.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Moratorium wrote:Hoppster wrote:
Moratorium: Is there any reason you ignored my super-awesome post yesterday?
Not sure what this means, are you looking for validation?
I just made a super-awesome post pointing out how obvious scum jilynne was, and you didn't comment on it at all.
I'm curious.
Did you not believe I was correct? Why didn't you try to correct me?Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Moratorium wrote:Moratorium wrote:
jilynne1991: Every post, especially early on, is either an apology, an expression of confusion, or mild reactions to other people. No votes in any direction this game yet, nothing that I could pin down as aggressive scumhunting. No effort? Signature says 13 and 10+ games, could be a lie to stay low content, but could be the truth and explain it. Leaning scum.
So what kind of comment were you looking for? Which is why I asked, were you looking for some sort of validation? Is it important to you that we be made aware that you were lining up a case on someone that ended up flipping scum?
No, you're missing the point completely.
I had a case on jilynne. I was clearly convinced jilynne was scum.
However, you continued to push DK. Is it not of relevance to address why you felt my case on jilynne was inadequate to convince you immediately? Or to even acknowledge my post (obviously I'm not talking about acknowledging itnow, but I mean at the time)?Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Amrun wrote:Hoppster: what do you hope to achieve by targetting one scummy player? It's 50/50 our quack is already dead, assuming that would resolve first in the first place.
Not sure whether I posted it before, but I changed my mind: the plan doesn't achieve a great deal and is open to a degree of scum interference.
(It didn't involve the Quack Doctor though FWIW.)Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Moratorium wrote:Hoppster wrote:
I had a case on jilynne. I was clearly convinced jilynne was scum.
However, you continued to push DK. Is it not of relevance to address why you felt my case on jilynne was inadequate to convince you immediately? Or to even acknowledge my post (obviously I'm not talking about acknowledging itnow, but I mean at the time)?
You put forth a post, #327, which basically sheeped things that I'd said about jilynne a week previous ("fence-sitting"). The post immediately preceding yours, #326, I'm asking for scumreads from Jilynne because my main beef was her lack of effort and no votes in any direction. Are you somehow insulted that I didn't deem your particular post rehashing the same ideas necessary to respond to? I don't get it.
So again, are you looking to have your opinions publicly validated, or are you trying to stir attention to the fact that you had a case on flipped scum?
>>
Nvm. I'm not going to get you to see it however I phrase myself.
However...
Moratorium wrote:So again, are you looking to have your opinions publicly validated, or are you trying to stir attention to the fact that you had a case on flipped scum?
^ This undoubtedly carries a tone of suspicion (I'm not trying to get town-cred, but that's irrelevant because you clearly think I am), however, why is it then that you did not bat an eyelid at this post from Quilford?Quilford wrote:WHAT DID I TELL YOU ABOUT JILYNNE BEING SCUM
WHAT DID I TELL YOU
in other news: fuck yeah
Moratorium wrote:(which was why I was looking for the logical exercises Hoppster was putting together, and wouldn't mind him finishing)
Mehhhh.
If I stop being lazy, I might do this.
I think Amrun could be town based on jilynne's very first post, as crazy as that sounds.
The first thing that set me off on jilynne-scum was the sheeping of #5 - N, Null. This was sheeped from Amrun. Trying to think about Newb-scum, I think even Newb-scum would be aware enough not to just blindly sheep their scumbuddy but I can certainly see newb-scum sheeping town.
The two also have interactions that I would not expect from newb-scum and scumbuddy.
Leaning-town read on tim_hill today. Mehhh.
Once I eventually get that second half of possibilities up, I'm wondering whether it might be advantageous to No Lynch and then Hypo-doc through the player list (except in reverse order to maximise information gained).
I myself am not feeling that confident that we will lynch scum in 2 lynches with no information gained. I'm getting all sorts of conflicting information from all players and different sources and it is boggling my brain and my reads.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Amrun wrote:That post lacks reads - even conflicting ones.
I didn't include them because there's no point in saying "OH I THINK QUILFORD COULD BE SCUM BECAUSE OF THIS BUT HE COULD ALSO BE TOWN", and it achieves nothing at all.
jilynne's posts suggest that either you or tim_hill are scum.
They also slightly suggest that you are town.
Your posts mean you are probably town.
tim_hill's posts today make me think he is probably town.
jilynne's posts suggest that Moratorium is town.
My gut thinks he is scum.
jilynne's posts suggest that Quilford could be scum or town depending on whether she's bad-scum or forgetful-scum respectively. I'm leaning towards the latter bearing in mind the context, but I really don't know.
Won't bother explaining them because that'd be a waste of my effort bearing in mind how counter-productive the end result would be - a justification of me saying "everybody could be town or scum" (even Newman, there's a slight chance he could be scum and got lucky with IceGuy being Nurse, but him claiming off the bat means it's unlikely... but the chance is still there).
Moratorium wrote:Hoppster wrote:Moratorium wrote:So again, are you looking to have your opinions publicly validated, or are you trying to stir attention to the fact that you had a case on flipped scum?
^ This undoubtedly carries a tone of suspicion...
I agree. You're also not directly answering the actual question I'm asking you. Second time, now.
What the hell are you talking about? If you're reading my posts, I don't explicitly state it but it's quite clear I think it's neither of them.
You're trying to force me into a false dilemma here, and one that's pretty obviously wrong as well.
VOTE: Moratorium
Moratorium wrote:So your actual answer to "Are you trying to make sure we are aware of your vote?" is "Well, what about that guy?".
Hoppster wrote:I'm not trying to get town-cred, but that's irrelevant because you clearly think I am
That's no.
Moratorium wrote:I'm also really curious about the "town-cred, but that's irrelevant because you clearly think I am" comment, because I'd characterize my questioning of you as... I dunno... tame? Passive-aggressive? Less than full-tilt scumhunting? So your reaction seems a bit out of proportion to me so far.
... what?
How is that out of proportion? If you're town, I'm stating a fact, which is certainly not out of proportion.
Moratorium wrote:What is your read on Quilford and Moratorium?
Quilford - leaning town.
Moratorium - scum based on posts (largely gut today aside), town based on jilynne's posts, but obviously nobody even cares about my suggestion that we No Lynch today and then hypo-doc so you are my preferred lynch for today.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Moratorium wrote:Can't say I was trying to force you into anything, I'm asking questions. You are adverse to directly answering questions, which I don't like.
All your reads are "well I think you are either town or scum", even the one you voted on. Your "justification" is pretty laughable. Don't like it.
Lots of "woe is me, no one is listening to me, won't bother explaining my thought process" in your posts. Don't like that.
It looks like a pre-emptive OMGUS vote once you saw my reads laid out. Don't like that.
vote Hoppster
No, you really were pushing the false dilemma way to hard.
You were forcing me into it, because I chose not to answer ("You're missing the point" or words to that effect), because to answer your question would be to say I was one of the two options you laid out, when it was neither.
The reads were in response to Amrun. I didn't want to post them (as I alluded to) but felt obliged to after she commented on my lack of reads.
Quilford wrote:pedit: amrun is almost definitely scum
VOTE: Amrun
Because she agreed with Newman?
Amrun's plan seems much, much better than hypo-doc'ing.
I actually really, really like it.
Scum is pretty much guaranteed to be in Moratorium or Quilford by PoE, so this game should be an auto-win at this point even if we don't use Amrun's plan. The lazy person in me wants to just power-lynch the two and not bother with cases.
tim_hill-scum deserves a win after today, and I just cannot bring myself to entertain Amrun-scum. It's just not in me to lynch the person who is genuinely providing nearly all content. Although I have had gut twinges, really, I would much rather lose to Amrun-scum than take the risk of looking like absolutely stupid-town by lynching the only townsperson single-handedly stopping this turning into a lurk-fest (which looks pretty likely to me if we lynch Amrun).Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Amrun wrote:Do you agree to target Newman, Hoppster?
Yup.
Amrun - it's possible that scumdidtry to kill you (and was foiled by Quilford-protect). Both deaths last night could have been town-originated.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Moratorium wrote:I can't decide whether it's scum-Amrun attempting to take advantage of Hoppster <-> Moratorium, or whether it's town-frustrated-Amruntrying to squeeze blood out of a rock.
Forgive me, I'm not familiar with that expression. Although I have a rough idea of what you're trying to say, I don't see how it (my 'rough idea') is applicable to this situation, so you're going to have to explain it.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Amrun wrote:He means I am trying to make a case that isn't there - but there isn't a good case to be made on any single player left, so that defense is meh.
Moratorium, from your absence of a correction I presume this is correct?
Quilford wrote:tim_hill1990 wrote:I'm actuallykindawondering about Quilford now, i've seenmostlyflakey play from him.
The main thing that stands out for me is his defence of DK after the lynch, seems like itcould bean attempt to gain town cred.
Defending me, while good for meseems likea similar ploy.
I also get akind ofcoasting feel from his play, seemsvery much liketrying to fade into the background, rather than become directly involved.
Mostly speculation here though.
OH MY GOD
LYNCH IT
LYNCH IT WITHFIRE
I don't think this is a scum-tell, certainly not the extent that you seem to believe it is. I have done (probably still do) this as town - if anything, I think I'm less inclined to do this as scum.
Quilford wrote:Provided we do something stupid like not lynching scum, you all do realise that Hoppster will be NK'd, right?
Hoppster NK is better than a Newman NK.
Quilford's recent very town-looking posts make me much more confident in Moratorium's scumflip.
Quilford is no longer auto-lynch if Moratorium is not scum (which at this point I find fairly difficult to believe).Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Shit, Amrun, that's terrible. Thanks for letting us know, I guess. My thoughts are with you and your family.
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Oh, man, walls.
Quote walls.
Quote wall wars.
Intra-quote wall wars.
Intra-quote multi-format wall wars.
This is going to take some reading.
tim_hill's "LOL QUILFORD WHY U FLAIL" looked just like the kind of scum-flail post that he'd earned mega-townpoints earlier for avoiding.
Having super-skimmed the walls however, he does have a point in that Quilford's manipulation of the chronology of the posts (well at least in the one example I looked at) does make him (tim_hill) look worse than he would otherwise.
Moratorium still my preferred lynch.
Case:
Meh. Nothing paticularly substantial, however, bad gut feeling about him all game.
He's also notably the only player who hasn't, at some point or other, impressed me with his towniness. All other players alive have had phases where I've looked at their posts and thought "Wow, this is awesomely town" - not necessarily consistently, but it has happened. Not with Moratorium.
I've got a couple of non-gut points which I'll get up tomorrow.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Still happy with my Moratorium vote.
Mod: V/LA Friday-Sunday (inclusive). Sorry for lack of notice.
Those of you wanting a non-gut case on Mor will need to wait until late-Sunday/Monday, Sowwy.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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