Newbie 1151 ÔÇô Game Over

[Ranmaru]

Vote: Xeras

Because I said so

Hey Krazy. Crazy seeing you here, eh? Glad to see you IC'ing for the first time. Good luck!

[Ranmaru]

@

Xeras

: What's wrong with voting really fast?

@

Lord

: It's daytime here.

[Ranmaru]

@Xeras

:

that's not a good question to ask. That question can incriminate a person wrongly.

Why exactly did you ask Racercar that?

Also, what would you do if not 'aimless' voting at the start of a mafia game?

[Ranmaru]

Hey JonW007. I saw you viewing. : D Please post.

[Ranmaru]

Hey Epsilon. I see you viewing.

What do you think of Xeras's #12?

Same goes to J007 *too lazy to write out the whole name haha*

[Ranmaru]

Ah I see.

Simple, just ask questions about people's actions, and get them to clarify what they have said that was unclear.

So again, why exactly did you pick Racercar out of anyone to ask that question?

----

I don't know what traits peacocks have, so I do not know how to answer that question. : D What do you think?

[Ranmaru]

1. If you feel he is scum, you should be voting him.
2. If something struck you as scummy, you should point it out.
3. You should confront him, and make sure he explains his actions to you.

[Ranmaru]

Vote: Ranmaru

because it's night.

You voted for Ranmaru because it is night? I find it odd that your vote is against someone who already had a vote on them.

Actually, it's perfectly fine. What intentions do you see from Lord? And Xeras, since you said it was scummy.

[Ranmaru]

I have thought of voting you as an RVS, but I thought it would be better to use it on someone new to get a read on them.

My name actually comes from the Wall Flower Manga. : P The name there was based on the original Ranmaru I think. : D

[Ranmaru]

Hmm... Ran, it looks like we have more in common than I previously thought.

Also, I can say you definitely are a peacock. At this point, I am going to say Epsilon is slightly doggish. I want to see how that one progresses.

Can you elaborate on this? What exact traits do peacocks have? What do we have in common?

Explain your Epsilon doggish desicription.

Ah Krazy, the IC has shown up.

Krazy, would you say that you prefer to play as town or as mafia more?
Also, which one would you say you are better at playing at?

Well, personally, I find it easier to win as mafia, but I prefer playing town. My "greatest accomplishment" was finding the cult recruiter and getting a wagon on him at cult-lylo in a World of Warcraft themed mafia game. Successfully finding the scum is way more gratifying to me. Unfortunately that game ended up being a draw due to a town-sided player accidentally posting the link to his mason chat thread. :/

The hardest thing for me to do is build bridges, when town, with other town-sided players, and it's something I'm hoping to work on this game. The trick is that "coming off on the same team" can often make other town-sided players second-guess themselves. One of my weaker moments was slightly derailing a wagon on scum in an open game simply because the wagon on him seemed too unified and solid and I felt for sure there must be scum on the wagon somehow. As it was, I was wrong, all the scum pretty much just started lurking or replaced out when the wagon on that player solidified.

I have thought of voting you as an RVS, but I thought it would be better to use it on someone new to get a read on them.

My name actually comes from the Wall Flower Manga. : P The name there was based on the original Ranmaru I think. : D

Ah, now I know! For reference, my name is not supposed to simply be a cute spelling of "Crazy" but is actually a reference to a comic character by George Herriman named Krazy Kat.

I actually find voting people I know gives me a better sense of them, sometimes, since I can gauge their reaction to previous experience. When you vote someone totally randomly, it can be harder to tell what sort of reaction it is.

About the building bridges thing. I have tried it and will always try it because I feel it is a tool that can help the town. It can destroy scum and make them cower in fear. I would only do so with someone I believe is town and has been looking at the same things as I have most likely. I always would keep an eye on that person because I wouldn't want to let him slip away if he was scum trying to ally with me. Basically, buddying/building bridges is null and people should be careful who they build with. : D

Haha I have never heard of Krazy Kat. : p

Ah I see. Usually since I most likely have played with that person before, I'd be looking at what new things they'd bring to the table THIS game as opposed to the last game.

I feel it works for me. : D I always try to pick a new person at random and hope for a reaction that can be helpful to starting discussion and for me to get a read.

Ok, I put a comment and for some reason it didn't go through. Anyway, I just want to see why during RVS Lord

chose to vote for someone who already had a vote against them

. Right after my comment, Xeras voted for Ranmaru. Did you just do this to make a point? I've just been trying to get the discussion going by asking questions like you guys have said.

The underlined. Sometimes people choose to vote someone randomly without noticing a previous vote on that person. Since it's RVS, it's not really scummy to see a person plop another vote on the same person. I am interested on how Lord follows up.

[Ranmaru]

Hehe, that is interesting. I like that poem. : D

Yeah, you are right, that is me. I'm not shy.

Ah ok, thanks for clarifying.

[Ranmaru]

Hi Racerman. Can you tell me your thoughts on the recent posts on this page and the last page?

[Ranmaru]

Xeras. Do you think that question helped you gain an alignment read on Racerman?

[Ranmaru]

UNVOTE: Ranmaru

This vote is getting me no where, and I don't want someone to hammer

when I am asleep

.

It is not even L-1, and I'm not seeing you putting that vote elsewhere.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Xeras

Let's get this party starting.

First off, he stated he wouldn't want anyone to be hammered while asleep, so obviously it wouldn't go anywhere regardless. Afterwards, he explained to you his reasoning.

There have been no other posters besides Krazy me Epsilon Xeras and you. It's obvious his vote wouldn't go anywhere else since he doesn't have enough leads yet.

Now after reading this, why is your vote still on him?

Unvote Vote: Lord

L-2

I feel you don't really think Xeras is scum yet you use those reasons to justify 'getting the party started', and after he explains you don't really explain why you are still voting him.

This post makes me feel particularly uneasy. Basically, admitting to have taken the easy path? Sir, you won some more time from my vote on you.

I was not taking the easy path. Essentially taking the easy path for me would have been voting Krazy. Also keep in mind I voted an SE. Also keep in mind that you essentially voting someone with a vote already on them is also taking the easy path.

and since I haven't placed an RVS vote either this is where my vote will stay for the moment.

Ok, townpoints for this.

Not scum mentality

. We'll see how you'll perform later.

Please expand on the underlined wrt to Krazy.

@Ranmaru: Is that how you usually play?

Yes. Check my wiki.

[Ranmaru]

@

Lord

:

Hmmm, you make a good point. Why haven’t you asked him about him not voting Krazy? I disagree, no one knows what can happen.

Why do you think he did that then? Again, anything can happen. Just ask him “Why haven’t you looked else where”

I am not defending him. I am attacking you. Your reasoning for your vote on him was for not voting elsewhere. So you should have been asking him why he isn’t exactly voting Krazy yet. The only iffy thing I see from him is that he hasn’t really interacted with Krazy, but it is valid for him to expect more content from Krazy before being able to get a read on him. That is also what you should be looking out for. Once Krazy posts, be on the look out for what Xeras does with his suspicion.

No, I am not. My meaning is that it doesn’t seem like you are confident in your read, and in that post it seems like you just vote him to get a wagon started up on him with flimsy reasoning. If you were really interested, you would have asked him about his non-voting and him not looking elsewhere. Instead, you just asked him “Why Krazy?” and that doesn’t seem genuine because that wasn't your reason for voting him.

He does that in #56. Essentially, he has explained what you have accused him of, and are still voting him. The “Not following up on Krazy” reason was not an original reason for voting him, and is tacked on AFTER you voted him.

Yes, my vote on Xeras was an RVS. We don’t know that you aren't sheeping, now do we? You said that you were just wagoning to pressure, which just seems like an excuse. Sure you can disagree with it. But how do you find it scummy?

I don’t see how that was a town tell. It’s a null tell because scum can also do that to look town. Plus, that post didn’t even have a STANCE in it, so of course it isn’t fence sitting because he was talking about RVS.

[Ranmaru]

Hey Epsilon. Why are you still on your RVS vote? Who do you think is scum?

[Ranmaru]

Then you should vote him. Newbies, don't be afraid to throw out votelz.

And where's mah Krazzzzzzzzyyyy.

Gah this town is such a lurker town. ; _____________ ;

How long for prods?

[Ranmaru]

Lord

:

Not true. It is not, if you have asked him "Why aren't you voting him?" it would have been an entirely different story. The reason for him not voting him is totally different than the reason for why he is suspicious of him. Keep that in mind.

Well you should try to be more consistent. You seemed to be caught up in the new things that come up and not in what you originally were looking for. Well I will make sure to see if you vote hop in the future and if it lines up with your story. I like to vote hop too, it helps me get reads.

Ok, so why didn't it change your mind? I want you to tell me what new reasoning you have for Xeras SCUM. What do you think of his recent explanation?

Ok, so how does my RVS vote on Xeras = the easy path?

Wrt to Krazy's null tell, why don't you think it's the case? I don't think that's a good thing to say. You don't really have a good reason for giving Krazy town points, and now you say 'just wait, you'll see' How can you know he can bring much more townieness later on from a minor RVS post? Was it just a vibe?

Again, I would like to see your thoughts on his recent response to you.

[Ranmaru]

That whole post is directed towards Lord. When you see a @ and a name next to it (but I forgot the @ lol) it means that post is directed to that person.

My previous post's first line is directed towards you. Essentially, I want to see a VOTE from you. Vote someone. Put your neck out for the town.

[Ranmaru]

Lord

:

• Again, I don’t really know if you were really caring about his vote because you didn’t press on his vote, just his suspicion.
  
• Yep you will see plenty. : D
  
• Yes you say you don’t believe it, but you don’t state why.
  
• No. I don’t see how me saying that was taking the easy path. I just thought you suspected that me voting a new guy over a player I am familiar with is odd, which I disagree with.
  
• I still don’t see how it was a town tell :/
  
• Not at all.
  
• I find his statements to you as null, they don’t seem to be about your stances or anything. Why does it seem scummy to you?
  
• Also, yes I was serious about the lurker thing.

---

Stels

:
Sup stels!

---

Isa

:
Where you at?

---

Oh hai thar!
Replacing Off the Mark

and since I haven't placed an RVS vote either this is where my vote will stay for the moment.

Ok, townpoints for this. Not scum mentality. We'll see how you'll perform later.

Buddying to Krazy. =/ Ranmaru ninja'd me by miles.

I'm not really sure this is buddying. He gives a read based on one post, but then goes out of his way to say "We'll see how you'll perform later"

if anything you should be accusing him of lampshading a later change of opinion to accuse me

. As it is though, an accusation of buddying, over something that I don't really think is buddying, strikes me as something scum would do. Ranmaru also questioned Lord on this but indicated Lord's vote on Xeras as the cause of Ranmaru's vote, something I am still reflecting on,

but am leaning that the vote on Xeras was not a scum-tell.

Lord himself I have very mixed feelings on. Prior to this nonsense with Meransiel being his alt I wasn't really thinking he was that scummy, and although I'm kind of annoyed that Meransiel is taking one of the few newbie slots in a game already full of SEs,

Lord's #90 struck me as a townish post

.

I've been feeling pretty strongly that most the arguments are town are town and that both of our scum are likely in the players that hadn't posted much yet, and right now, Stels I have a gut read on you as scum.

Vote Stels

First Underline, Why is that? There was nothing wrong with him VOTING, I didn't like him not really focusing on his reasoning AFTERWARDS. Also expand on the second underlined statement. Please tell me why you don't think his town points to you wasn't buddying. Seeing as his reasoning for your town points were not fully... validated in my pov, I do see he said "I'll see how you do later" as more than buddying, and like keeping an eye on you, but I don't see why you don't see it as possibly buddying as well.

The bold, I don't understand. Expand on that please. I mean I don't get the term 'lampshading'.

Why do you think scum would accuse Lord of buddying in your pov?

Also, I want to comment on the Stels v You, but I am still waiting on Stels to reply to you.

[Ranmaru]

LOL. DID YOU JUST SAY WOMBO COMBO xDDDDDD

You from Smash Boards eh? ;o

Welcome Isa!

[Ranmaru]

Yeah I'm still a doc main. (He will always be my main, I like Falco and Jiggs as secondaries) I just kinda retired from playing since I was spending so much money without a legit job. I'm kinda rusty. I still host melee tournies tho. : D I still play sometimes too.

Kk, glad to see you here then!

Also give me your thoughts on Lord, Epsilon, and Racerman when you are done, plz.

[Ranmaru]

Well yes voting an SE or IC gets me reads either way. I said that because I have played with Krazy before, so I would rather get a

REACTION

from someone

new

rather than someone I most likely could read after seeing their play in a previous game. It's a preference. Although Krazy's view seems legit too, I just take a different direction with that.

[Ranmaru]

Hmmm, interesting! I have some answers, but do you think I should wait for others to post first? [Non-Se's I mean] ;p I think it would be fun if we popcorn too. Might learn a thing or two.

[Ranmaru]

I meant popcorn the answers to Krazy's excersize. Only info I think would be leaked is how buddying looks like and how it would be used from town/scum.

[Ranmaru]

1. Null.
2. TOWN. (strong read here)
3. Town.
4. Scum.

Working on reasons later. : p

[Ranmaru]

*I left out the reasoning because I want everyone else to come up with their own reasoning. I'll re-post with my reasoning after everyone chimes in.

[Ranmaru]

It's ok. Sorry for being unclear.


New lesson for everyone: Don't assume Popcorn = Massclaim. Usually when people claim, they name a person, or popcorn, to be the next to claim. Essentially I think you can do this with any kind of 'mass _____ [INFO]' thingy. : D

[Ranmaru]

Xeras, currently who are your top suspects? Is lord suspicious to you? Tell me WHEN, lord became suspicious to you.

Ok top three scumpicks for me.

Lord, Krazy, Xeras.

Xeras, your hammer was scummy to me because I have never seen you express suspicions of Lord. Only as omgus "Oh you seem to be trying hard to be town". Only thing is that scum wouldn't really hammer like that because it would be suicide, and that's going against their wincon. Also using self-meta when considering hammering is scummy to me, since Isa has said you have done this before as scum. Thus, you saying "I am compulsive" is null and there is no reason to state it. If Lord flips scum, there is LITTLE chance of Xeras being scum. It is possible he did that to bus a buddy, but that would put him at the hot seat for the rest of the game.

Krazy, I didn't like his push on Stels for voting Lord for 'buddying'. Krazy then stated that he felt Lord's buddying to him was that of a town manner, but that wouldn't mean Stels was scum for attacking him. It would just mean he was wrong. I feel Krazy was FORCED to push on Stels since he couldn't push on any of Lord/Ran/Epsilon/Racerman/Xeras because we were quite active, so he was pre-accusing the inactive slot to look like he was genuinely looking for scum. He is the least suspicious, but he should be kept under close eye if I am gone.

Lord is my top suspect. I think he was very aggresive, which is good and I like, but he was so aggressive with his early pick that he forgot to focus on WHY he thought Xeras was scum. He kept pushing on his scumpick when it seemed he explained Lord's issue, but then Xeras was still scum to him. This still looks to me like a fake scumread, and Lord was trying to play the part of 'super scumhunter', without the script. If Lord flips scum, I do find it possible Xeras and Lord planning to bus each other from the very start. This way, it would clear the other after a lynch. This is a very risky gambit, with a high gain IF people believed it. Consider this if I'm gone.

This is last minute content. More in a bit.

[Ranmaru]

Xeras, you state you voted him because you didn't want to deal with a replacement. But, you already were having trouble reading him, seeing as how you had him as null, and wouldn't bother reading him because of his alt shenanigans.

See, I could understand this because my scumreads became townreads upon a replacement coming in [my first newb game]. Now, you never were suspicious of him, so that isn't the case. A replacement, would HELP you read that slot. Essentially, you'd vote him because you wouldn't want a replacement from messing up your scumread, of that you had NONE. So I don't really see how this HELPED you, or HELPED us.

Now tell me, how does this help YOU, and/or US?

[Ranmaru]

WTF? How am i confirmed town?

Johhog, mainly for Xeras's incredibly baseless attacks. But now, I will

Unvote

. Now, it's like 50/50 between lord and xeras. OMGUS is a scumtell.

Keep this in mind.

[Ranmaru]

The first line.

[Ranmaru]

If post 225 = true,
then post 226 = true.

However if lord is scum... then... I am not sure who to go after... possibly epsilon?

Yet you have forgotten your suspicion of Racerman? And of Jeffie? (I don't see if you got a different read on Johog)

What are your reads on them now?

[Ranmaru]

Re-state your reasoning for your Racerman read.

Also what did you think of my #230?

[Ranmaru]

Consider this if I'm gone.

I find that scum like to foreground the possibility that they will be nightkilled in twilight. I do admit that you've been listed as "likely town" by a mystifying number of players (a phenomenon I have concerns about in more than one regard).

You're still null as far as I'm concerned. Just because we seem to have a lot of nuts players who are happy to hammer early for extremely poor reasoning doesn't mean you're town simply for being sane. I find it improbable that you'd be scum with Lord, though, in the remote chance that he does flip scum.

As for my pressure on Stels,

wagoning for poor reasons is almost the archetype of scum behavior

, so I do not always take it that people are just "wrong" when they use poor reasons to join a wagon.

That point is null. What is your point in your second sentence? If you have concerns, then state them.

Ok? So? What's the point in stating that? Why haven't you ever stated this before? You have never really addressed me, or try to gauge my motivation. If I am null, you should be trying to read me, ask me questions, etc. The only 'interesting' thing you listed about me was my vote on Lord, which you said "something I am still reflecting on". You state that my reasoning for voting lord was his vote on Xeras, which was not true. Voting is fine, it was him forgetting to focus on his REASONS which was scummy. Got to back those up. It seemed fake. Either way, you never really pointed it out again.

If you find me as null, why haven't you challenged the players who had me as town with their reasoning as to why?

[Ranmaru]

I'm back guys. I'll be catching up tonite and answering any questions addressed to me. : P

[Ranmaru]

Ok guys, no voting yet. This is lylo so you know the drill. Fos instead.

---

Fos: Krazy

You hammered without letting me catch up, why was that? Rather, how did that help us?

I didn't catch up because I had school (late nite), but I was going to and noticed the thread closed.

I'll get to your questions from last day phase tonite. Also would like your picks for ToDay. Throw out a FoS too.

@

Isa

: I want you to state why you suspect Stels again. I also want your thoughts on Krazy.

I don't believe Stels is scum. I have a stronger read on Krazy being scum. He has a few null reads, and hasn't really done much to get a better read on them. He asked me questions but I didn't get a chance to answer them because he hammered without waiting if I would have responded after that point. This all makes me think that he doesn't really care about getting a read. I also think his push on Stels is weak.

@

Muffin and Stels

: I want your picks for today. I want to see an FoS.

[Ranmaru]

Essentially, Krazy as scum can't coordinate an alpha strike due to most of everyone being invisible, so he'd have to put down the first vote to cause confusion.

Krazy

: I would look at Muffin man and Isa afterwards. Stels I don't believe is mafia with you due to your push on him.

You voted him for having a weak reason in coming in as a replacement. You are hypocritical in saying that scum use bad reasons to get a wagon, because you yourself are using a bad reason. That doesn't appear to me like genuine concern. Now repeat why you believe Stels is scum.

Isa, you too.

[Ranmaru]

I'll get to Krazy's requests to me, and Muffin's questions to me today. I was busy with school. : ]

[Ranmaru]

Trying to guess what the scum teams and D1, especially 10 pages into the day is definitely not a good and definitely not the time to talk about it.

Anyone reading this post should from Stels should ask themselves:

-When according to Stels would be the right time to try to guess what the scum teams are? I have myself focused on pairs in the past, and have been told that during D1, that it wouldn't really hold much water before having enough info. In Crazy's case, I was pairing him up with Vordark. IF Crazy would have been lynched, he'd flip town and Vordark would most likely be cleared, if Vordark got lynched, Crazy would be condemned. This is not a scumtell, because this is Stels scumhunting in his own way, and I don't see how you think it is a scum tell and I would think you'd know better, Krazy.

-How is discouraging players from speculating on the scum team pro-town? That is, why, as town, would Stels, assert this? Possibly to stop scum from getting falsely cleared or town falsely condemned upon one's flip. It is a null tell.

-Can you think of a reason that, as scum, Stels would assert this? Yes, as scum, he could do that to create wifom. Now, who did he ask to stop speculating about?

If your reads change constantly, then what's the purpose of discussing these scum teams if one or the other or both people that you believe to be scum are constantly switching?

-

Everyone,

does this question strike you as a post from someone who is scum-hunting?I don't think this shows if he is scum hunting or not. I am interested in why he believes you are scum.

Are you saying you didn't badhammer/scumhammer, Xeras?

Are you saying that there is way to be neither a badhammer, nor a scumhammer in a mislynch?

IIRC or something along those lines, no one asked to hammer Lord yet, therefore you are at fault here.

What if I was at L-1 D1 in this game and claimed cop. With all of my posts that I may have posted and in the same manner as I am posting now, would you still keep your vote on me?

-Stels blames Xeras for the hammer as a scummy move, yet simultaneously argues that even if a player claimed a PR they would be hammered anyway. Why would a town-sided player argue both of these points in the same post?

I don't see the scum motivation within that. Rather, I don't see any other context in this post, so I don't see what you are saying. Are you saying he contradicted himself?

[Ranmaru]

Sorry guys, I have been a little busy. Posting more in a bit.

[Ranmaru]

Actually, I'd also like to hear why Isa is so against Krazy's vote on Stels and Ranmaru's thoughts on Isa/Stels.

Town read on Isa. I felt his entrance post into the game was the strongest, and he addressed many things which he had questioned. I think you say something about him sheeping Krazy, but I find that as a null tell since I have seen players sheep IC's usually. I will never support a lynch on him.

Null Town on Stels. This is because I feel Krazy's push on Stels is fake, and I still don't understand why Isa also suspects Stels. Null town because I haven't seen him post much, and I KNOW he can do stuff from playing with him in skype.

--

Scum read on Krazy. I feel he hasn't really cared about his suspects legitimately. He has done well as an IC, but hasn't really been looking for scum. His push on Stels was just him trying to push an inactive slot, because he couldn't push most of the people that were active. He attacked him for attacking Lord for giving points to Krazy for not RVS'ing me, which was totally wrong, yet he never considered that. Notice how Stels posts a rebuttal to Krazy in #361, yet he hasn't even responded to it. I also didn't see much interest in waiting for me to post during D2, and he just hammered without considering that I may have been busy and couldn't get to the thread yet. He goes "Oh well Ran didn't reply to me, what a shame" and hammers when he still have plenty of time to wait.

Slight scum read on you. Your slot hasn't really done much earlier, and going off of POE.

I'm going to

FoS: Krazy

again, because it will soon become a vote after everyone talks and we decide on a lynch. I am confident in my Krazy Read, and once he flips scum, we'll lynch you.

[Ranmaru]

Sorry guys. I will post later, I am in class right now. : D

[Ranmaru]

And when I mean later, I mean tonite.

[Ranmaru]

Ok, about the scumteams thing, I think you have a point. I concede to that, because asking if two people might be scum together is harmless.

I just hard looked at you because of your initial push on Stels. I see he hasn’t really pushed for you, and has only FoS’d you after I did. I do not think a picture would suffice to show his reads.

Vote: Stels

[Ranmaru]

*heart stops*

it's over...

[Ranmaru]

Yes, Ranmaru. Goddammit. I'm like "any day now, Ranmaru will post vote:Stels.... any day now.... Ranmaru? RANMARU?" Had to make idle chatter in the mean time.

I know bro.

I was like

"Cmon Muffin man. I saw you post like 2 secs ago. Just vote stels now. I'm ready bro. *sees nothing* Ok man, I can tell telepathically that you don't want me to vote and screw this game up for us. Ok, I got ya. I won't vote. I'll drag it out instead"

[Ranmaru]

Also... I forgot to send in action last night... I'm so sorry everyone. I played badly late game. I'm so glad I won though. :3

[Ranmaru]

Lol that was a joke. Sadly it became reality. ;-; Also why I was afraid of being obv town. So I just let Krazy live to make it seem like he was trying to frame me.

And yeah. I gave Epsilon homework. ;o