NY 142: Rolling in the Deep, WAIT WAT? PARTY OVER?!

[Zdenek]

Vote Sorgster

Policy lynch go.

[Zdenek]

explain policy lynch

go

Neruzian era mafia, post 1531.

[Zdenek]

The policy lynch suggestion was for fun and not serious, and pops is blathering.

Unvote
Vote popsofctown

[Zdenek]

if I thought he did that as a throw away thinking nobody would really pay much attention to it than yes I could see scum make that comment, especially because there would always be somebody like you to point out that he could take heat.

for right now though he is good for some pressure, much better than the reason you are pointing out.

It's not a throwaway comment. Pops' is blathering. He's talking about how policy lynching DK is a bad move, bragging about past games as town and theorizing about what makes a good policy lynch. He accuses me of lurking when my time between posts is less than 24 hours, so he is grasping at straws trying to make me look bad. He argues that my argument for a policy lynch was weak while insisting that it must have been serious, without even considering the question: if it were serious, could it have been stronger?

[Zdenek]

One liners are lurking.

First, you accused me of lurking after I proposed the policy lynch (during that time I posted nothing), and now you're accusing me of lurking for posting one liners on page one.

Don't understand your last sentence there.

You're trying to attack me for making both a serious suggestion of a policy lynch and arguing it's also a weak suggestion for a policy lynch. If it was actually a serious suggestion, don't you think I'd try to make the argument a stronger, if it was possible?

[Zdenek]

I think that the case againt theamat is reasonable, Hiraki is being useless and I'm pretty much the only person he's commenting on.
I have no interest in lynching either Beck or Pine.

Pops continues to be scum, now for pretending to be useful by writing a long essay about town lists.

[Zdenek]

The suggestion of a policy lynch was a gambit. Doing something like this is not scummy. I gave a weak reason for it because it wasn't serious. That post of Sorgster's was from a recent game and it was so bizarre that I remembered it and it was easy to find. Pops was not the first person to question me on it, and I'm voting him because he's scum and that post he made that you call content filled was nothing of the sort.

[Zdenek]

Two scummy people are happy with a lurker lynch. Fantastic.

Why don't you guys vote pops? He's actually scum.

[Zdenek]

Why are you ignoring pops?

[Zdenek]

Zde not so sure. What have you got on pops anyways?

Read my ISO, and zelink and pine have had some things to say about him too.

I think Hiraki was right to question iaaun's vote on Revenus. Yes, the post was bad, but it's doubtful that it was coming from scum.

I think the emotion he's displaying is rubbing his hands with glee as he watches the lunatic distracting everybody's attention by shitting himself all over the thread. If that counts as an emotion.

That doesn't seem to be compatible with Revenus wanting to policy lynch Beck.

[Zdenek]

His early behavior seems like one of the scummiest things ever

Ok pops, what was so scummy about it.

[Zdenek]

Lynch all Liars. You claimed your first post was a joke because it was beneficial for it to be one.

Unless you can explain what's so humorous about sorgster's play in 1531

I was using the word joke to day that it was not a serious policy lynch.

Do you think that all lies/gambits by town are scummy?

[Zdenek]

Anyway pops decision to try to have me lynched because of my choice of the word joke to indicate that the policy lynch wasn't serious is the scummiest thing in the thread. The fact that he didn't just acknowledge my comment about it is further evidence that he is full of shit.

[Zdenek]

I'm strapped for time I can devote to mafia, so please chill on my activity level.

Re: IioA - I like theory crafting a lot, so I'm naturally predisposed to talk a lot about it since I enjoy it more. That said it is anti-town,

Confession of being anti-town.

zdenek is still scum. His early behavior seems like one of the scummiest things ever. Normally I have to question such a strong read and wonder if it's too good to be true. But zdenek is a special case, because in the last game I played with him he was extremely scummy as well (from my perspective, but that's the perspective I'm syncing up with what's happening now).

For the record in that game, I'd just been investigated when pops replaced in and my role was a very likely sk role, so obviously had confirmation bias in his read on me in that game.

I actually applied this logic in the very last game I played. An overall weak player made a single post that was extremely scummy. She was my top scumpick all game. Flipped SK.

More bragging about past town exploits.

[Zdenek]

I agree zde needs to explain what was bad about the post from that game, even if the PL was a joke (still disagree it was) he should explain his reasoning to single that post out

Sorgster voted a confirmed vote-stealer, an almost sure town role, who he thought was an inventor (for no reason as far as I know) and who claimed day-cop (which was not the case).

[Zdenek]

Anyone else look this up? The post seemed to show little evidence of sorgster being a bad player. It had even less evidence of the player being unreadable, which is an important component of any good policy lynch. Failure to help out with scumhunting isn't good enough. Poor voting accuracy isn't good enough. A bad, but transparent player can be ignored when he makes crappy attacks, overruled by a wise town when he votes poor targets, and then lynched or not lynched based on his attempts at play.

Why did this take 20 pages?

I kinda get it now. -sigh-
unvote

Lying scum. Can we lynch pops now please.

As far as Beck's regardless of my alignment tell goes, I think lynching Pine for saying that would be about as good as lynching randomly.

What makes SodaSpirit legitimately scummy? Isn't he a lurker, too?

However, I've been reading. I don't like IAAUN (mostly because of Rev's post, and how it tied into his scum-play in another game I played with) and Pine. Pine needs more pressure, he's acting a bit suspicious.

He gives a reason for finding someone scummy, but makes a pressure vote for vague reasons.

Pine is providing meta while complaining about people talking about other games.

Pine's reaction to revenus' vig joke seems forced. as does that post where he complains about the game stalling.

Sword, don't talk about ongoing games.

[Zdenek]

I'm tired of my vote pointlessly sitiing on Pops. He's still scum, but I can use it better.

Vote Slandaar

[Zdenek]

Slaandar's reaction to ThaD's vote is ridiculous, and this accusation is one of the most contrived things I have ever read.

So, we can assume beck is a town read yet he does not use becks logic to find scum pushing the beck wagon, which is odd, truely, looking for any reason to get your vote on me first eh?

I think Rev is town.

[Zdenek]

I'm okay with deferring to Faraday on Slaandar, especially since there's a vote on pops now.

Vote pops

[Zdenek]

Comments on or votes for pops. Now please.

[Zdenek]

these posts are cute and all, but they are all failing to mention pops.

[Zdenek]

I don't have time to read now.

V/LA until Tuesday.

[Zdenek]

Vijay's reads list looks like he's putting in effort and makes me think that he could be town. Plus pops got on his wagon with this post.

I'm going to have to defer to Faraday on SV, since he claims to have a meta on him.

unvote

I disagree with a lot of his other reads though.

Crossing of SV and Revenus leaves me with funkybike, which I'm not that enthusiastic about either. Hiraki seems like funkybike++, since I know Hiraki can post better, and I don't know whether funkybike can or does. But..

Since vijay's iso isn't very townie and his top three scumpicks are the most popular wagons with little original thought, I'll go with

vote: vijay

.

Pops was voting Shattered, Faraday comes along and says that he's town for a single post. Pops backs down, says that he disagrees with a lot a Faraday's other reads, but sheeps him. Hello cognitive dissonance.

So I'm not about to support that lynch.

I'm pretty indifferent about Shattered Viewpoint.

Pops I would just like to say, I was on those bandwagons before they were cool, sadly.

not really.


sadly? you know they're townwagons?

Reaching or misrepping: your choice.

Rev is my top suspect, nobody will lynch him even if I've guranteed he is scum and offered myself up for tomorrow.

SV is probably scum too, I have a strong gut read on you, but haven't comb'd through your iso yet to make a case.

Because if we do follow through your plan, all that will happen are 2 mislynches.

This requires an explanation because your vote is on SV.

[Zdenek]

theam, what was this plan of Beck's you were referring to?

[Zdenek]

Well, I think that Pine's rev vote is very opportunistic, and coupling that with some of the other posts he's made that feel unnatural to me, the doc on rev one springs to mind, I can easily see him as scum.

I understand that rev's posts have been somewhat terrible, but I still have a hard time seeing him as scum.

Slandaar expressed some interest in getting on the rev wagon, but fence sat but asked others for opinions rather than taking a strong stance himself.

Theamat isn't even trying to be useful.

[Zdenek]

Well, I think that Pine's rev vote is very opportunistic...

How so? The wagon on Revenus was practically dead, and he was lurking. There was no opportunity. If anything, you might argue that I had to work hard to get it going again. Some of the people that jumped on after I re-initiated the wagon with sheepy votes, THAT can be interpreted as opportunistic.

I swear to god, "Opportunistic" is a buzzword that gets thrown around a lot on this site, and no one fucking uses it right.

Vote on a player whose under suspicion from a few other players for a reason that's mediocre to bad, but that you are pretty sure is good enough that you can justify keeping your vote on him until the end of the day without raising too many hackles.

[Zdenek]

Quick catchup\prod dodge.

Sky's 1562 looks like he's freely stating his thoughts, so while I think the post is poorly worded, it makes me think that he is town.

Mastin's willingness to compromise with someone who he said that he has a scum read on makes no sense to me, and it seem careless for Mastin.

Slandaar picking up on Sky becoming townish could mean that he's town because as scum, he should be happy with the pressure that Sky is under for that post I just mentioned and probably wouldn't say anything about it.

I have to put some thought into things, and I'll post again tomorrow.

[Zdenek]

There are a lot of people in this game that I don't have very strong reads on, but I am not in favor of a Slandaar lynch because I have a hard time seeing scum Slaandar defending Sky.

People I am okay with lynching because I think they are scum:

Hirkai
Pine
Pops
Vijay

People I am fine with lynching because they have done nothing and their few posts give me no reason to think they are town:

Velzanath
Mastin

I'd like everyone to look at pops again:

there is what now seems like a pretty direct lie about looking up and the Sorgster post to evaluate me asking for a policy lynch. Then he used my my explanation of that post as an excuse to get out the argument with me. If he thought I was scum, this makes no sense, he just didn't feel like continuing the argument.

Then there are the piles of IIoA and mafia discussion style posts.

There's the way in which he shifted his ground for attacking me first for lurking when I hadn't posted for a day and then to saying that I was lurking before that by just posting one liners.

There's that post about PR hunting not working, which is bizarre and just looks like he wanted to argue for the sake of arguing.

Lately his votes have been pretty lazy - voting for vijay and soda. I don't these are necessarily bad votes, but because of bussing and the possibility of multiple scum teams, I do not think they are townish.

[Zdenek]

I have a lot to catch up on and I'll get that done in the the next 15 hours.

I think Pine has been disingenuous; his "doc on rev" post clearly is.

I'd be willing to vote for Slaandar to secure a lynch.

Mastin is posting elsewhere on the site and not here, so he's scum. This is absolutely not the town mastin who'd I'd expect to be in here telling us to stop voting certain people. If we are going to go after slots that we don't know anything about this one would be a great lynch.

preview edit:
Good. I don't need to change my vote yet.

[Zdenek]

So here is why Pine is scum:

Part 1. The "vig" debacle.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3520305 Doc on Rev please.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3520317 I can't count on derp players to do the right thing.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p3525851 neither vig claim was serious.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3552155 The vig claim was an obvious joke

Basically he was full of shit and trying to role fish by pointing out what he now calls an obvious joke.

Part 2. Mafia discussion posts:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p3513884 This is what RVS is about.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3514290 Scum do scum hunt . . .. .

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p3515631 Here's how the vig should play.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3517729 Please stop discussing mafia theory. Cognitive dissonance.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3520353 You don't lynch lurkers day one.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3521522 Get and avatar, soft claiming is bad.

Part 3. Cognitive Dissonance:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3510892 Here he talks about a past game with no bearing on this one. This is also an instance of him trying to antagonize Beck.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3519727 Please stop talking about past games.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3519979 Talks about past games.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3534007 Talks about past games.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3515619 Directing the vig.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3519022 Directing the vig.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3524157 Directing the vig.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3539892 LOL at Beck's directing the vig.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p3543131 LOL where am I directing night actions of any kind.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p3530568 Here Pine's stance on policy lynches starts to change.

Part 4. Other:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3513732 Antagonizes Beck.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3543723 disingenuous attack on Sky.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3551297 Revenus do you have rage issues - mudflinging

[Zdenek]

^= not town.

Vote Slaandar

[Zdenek]

Unvote

[Zdenek]

He might be be modkilled, and the day will continue if he's scum. Do not vote for him until that's clarified.

[Zdenek]

Eh...this could qualify as legitimate WIFOM.

If the mods are willing to accept my opinion, I suggest we just lynch Slandaar and move on.

See Pine is scum.

He wants confessed scum to not be modkilled, lynched instead and the day to end, rather than a modkill plus a lynch today.

[Zdenek]

Velzanath's defense of ScreamingHawk makes no sense at all. I's starting there today.

Vote Velzanath

[Zdenek]

Than dig into his iso, and tell me what makes you think that Velzanath is town?

[Zdenek]

Wagonning him would be a good way to try to get a read on him.

[Zdenek]

>I looked thorugh his ISO
>I don't see why he is scummy enough to lynch

Which part of that makes no sense?

I meant that the act of defending him makes no sense. Not seeing or not agreeing with a case against someone is one thing. Defending someone against an attack is another. Defending someone who you don't actually think is counterproductive this early in the day, when there are so few votes on that person. Couple that with the fact that Velz doesn't suggest a suspect of his own, and you've got something that probably has an agenda behind it.

Really? He hasn't posted much at all... I don't read that as scummy... You could be town trying to scumhunt here, but if so your analysis is way off. Give me better reasons as to why you know he's scum, otherwise I'm not getting behind that wagon. IGMEOY Zdenek.

I don't know that he's scum and I'm not even voting for him.

Oh pops is still scum.

I'm a fan of lynching vijay today.
Or zdenek, who came out of the gate rather weakly today, with "Defense is Scummy".

I'd like to lynch the people I was suspicious of yesterday.

I was apparently pretty offtarget yesterday, so I'll put some thought into things today.

[Zdenek]

Because I doubt that scum Funkybike has the nerve to make the fake Vig claim, I'm not that keen on this wagon (there are much scummier people we could be lynching today). On top of that, Pine's case on Funky is mediocre. There's a pretty big gap between thinking that someone is not an acceptable vig shot and thinking that someone is obvtown and this is all Funky said at first. The posts that he quoted as proof that Hiraki is town look like things that are supposed make to think that Hiraki was obvtown. I can see the problem here, but it's nothing like what Pine is claiming it is and I'm going to chalk it up to laziness.

[Zdenek]

It was very, very obvious that funky was mocking the previous vig claims. That doesn't change the fact that funky is scum for other reasons.

Which reasons would those be?

[Zdenek]

Unvote
Vote Pine

[Zdenek]

Pops and pine are buddies.

[Zdenek]

Indeed, it can't. Not voting pine is what is opportunistic, with his bizarre, weak case at the beginning of day 2 on velzanath which starkly contrasted with the dedicated tunneler image he was putting on Day 1.

I was using my vote to apply pressure to someone who I feel deserves it. This is not opportunistic or bizarre in the least.

Velz is scum too. Check Maxous 2280 and Velz's list of reads. This is one that I am really confident in now.

Unvote
Vote Velzanth

[Zdenek]

Scum are highly unlikely to claim VT this early. Velz's lynch is off.

Vote Pops

[Zdenek]

I got prodded.

You guys are still not getting anywhere.

Not that I expected any different.

Play the game or replace out.

The pops vote makes no sense.

Please enlighten me. Why?

He is making every effort to play with the big boys, and needs to be treated that way.

This is not a town point of view.

Pine continues to talk about old games despite complaining about others doing it earlier.

Pine's 2323 makes no sense at all because he's conflating stupid with inexperienced.

I think the rev lynch is acceptable, but it's not my preference.

[Zdenek]

At this point, I have precisely as many posts as you have.

I don't at all see how you can offer me any ultimatums at this time.

Right, because the issue is your post count.[/sarcasm]

[Zdenek]

Pine, what do you think is the make up of the scum team(s)?

Pine and Pops are both still scum and I want them dead. But this is good too,

VOTE: theamatuer

[Zdenek]

Also

V/LA until Thursday

Noted. -DY

[Zdenek]

The Sorgster werewolf slip is stupid. There' no way that makes him likely scum.

Pine is still definitely scum.

I just find 3 v 3 more likely. At 4 v 4, it starts to favor anti-Town a bit, and at 5 v 5 it's just straight up unfair. 2 v 2 is strongly Town-sided, so 3 v 3 is a pretty good number. Yeah, it tries to outguess the mod a bit, but I tend to do that.

My speculation had nothing to do with the night kills at first, it stems from the fact that chk added flavor some time between the start of the game and the start of Day Two. I noticed it, saw a glaring reference to two gangs, and suddenly the number of probable scum jumped from 4-6ish to upwards of nine or ten possible scum.

Now he's fear mongering about something that he doesn't even believe. Can we please lynch pine tomorrow?

I think the Velz slip is legit.

Vote Velz

[Zdenek]

Just to make it clear to everyone the issue is the number of scum pine was predicting.

[Zdenek]

Both of the posts I quoted were from day two.

[Zdenek]

Since pine can't read, let me make things more explicit:

here is the fear mongering

suddenly the number of probable scum jumped from 4-6ish to upwards of nine or ten possible scum.

Here is what pine said later

I just find 3 v 3 more likely

Oh and here is the best part, why did pine say the second thing - to try to prove the Rev is scum for guessing 3x3 scum teams.

[Zdenek]

Actually

Unvote
Vote Pine

[Zdenek]

This is better than the Velz slip. Pine first says that the thinks there could be upward of 9 or 10 scum, Then after Velz calls Rev out for guessing teams of three, pine changes what he thinks is likely to 3 v3 to try to make a stronger case that Rev is scum.

He is an opportunistic liar who needs rope now.

[Zdenek]

That should be after Zeling calls out Rev

[Zdenek]

You were well aware of 129 before you ever mentioned upwards of nine or ten scum.

[Zdenek]

No. Pine is scum and needs to die now.