Newbie #1185 (Game Over!)

[fathom42]

I am indeed referring to his vote on Workdawg. I apologize for the typo; those things happen to me a lot when I'm tired.

[inte]

VOTE: tierce

couple things to say.


1) you can't false an opinion

2) anything is necessary (he might be maf trying to cloud judgement)

2) it kind of is scummy behavior to point out someone elses flaws when you have made the same mistake. i think its only to misdirect attention.
3) when i meant kind hearted, i meant purposely trying to sniff out scum behavior with prodding, but whatever
4) him and his are non gendered terms on the internet. i don't assume anyone is male or female. i actually assume everyone is transgendered. it really shouldn't be relevant if you're guy gal or other though.

5) its omgus because it was in response to you voting him. from my limited time using the terminology, isn't that what it means?
6) i just told you my mafia play status, and never claimed that you had previous knowledge. you told me to contribute

[inte]

and yes, i realize i repeated 2, but you still get the picture.

[Tierce]

VOTE: tierce

couple things to say.


1) you can't false an opinion

2) anything is necessary (he might be maf trying to cloud judgement)

2) it kind of is scummy behavior to point out someone elses flaws when you have made the same mistake. i think its only to misdirect attention.
3) when i meant kind hearted, i meant purposely trying to sniff out scum behavior with prodding, but whatever
4) him and his are non gendered terms on the internet. i don't assume anyone is male or female. i actually assume everyone is transgendered. it really shouldn't be relevant if you're guy gal or other though.

5) its omgus because it was in response to you voting him. from my limited time using the terminology, isn't that what it means?
6) i just told you my mafia play status, and never claimed that you had previous knowledge. you told me to contribute

1. Sure. But there can be valid scumhunting Day 1. That's what I'm talking about.
2. What mistake? If I've made one, please let me know. I point out flaws where I see them so that people take notice and improve their skills, and I'd rather they did the same with me. Isn't that one of the points of social gaming (and a Newbie game to boot)?
4. I was just noting it because my gender is listed and I'd prefer if you used the appropriate pronoun, is all.
6. I know you didn't claim it; you don't have to be so defensive. I was explaining why we were free to assume anything about you, since we had no data.

[Tierce]

VOTE: tierce

2) it kind of is scummy behavior to point out someone elses flaws when you have made the same mistake. i think its only to misdirect attention.

What, are you talking about fathom42, or about me? Please be specific.

[syndromeofadown]

Ugh, my intuition is really telling me a certain player is scum, but I don't want to put the spotlight on them just yet. For three reasons: one, I would come off hypocritical after all my speeches about day 1; two, my intuition could be wrong and I feel I should wait for when I have a better case against them, and three, I want to keep scum in the dark, make them second guess themselves and look for changes in behavior after posting this. I honestly don't know if I should even be posting this since it goes against every strategy I decided on coming into the game, but for now

Unvote

PS, what do you guys think the setup is? For now I'm feeling 2 mafia, 6 town, and a power role (doctor if I had to guess)

[fathom42]

Yo, Inte. What do you think of Shii/SOAD? I've been asking this for awhile, and I'd like an answer.

[haycorn]

4) him and his are non gendered terms on the internet. i don't assume anyone is male or female. i actually assume everyone is transgendered. it really shouldn't be relevant if you're guy gal or other though.

Since when? I have never been in any online environment where it was considered acceptable to refer to someone explicitly identified as female as "him" or "he."

Also, were I transgendered I would probably appreciate being referred to either by one of the invented non-gendered pronouns or by the pronoun that corresponds to the gender I have identified myself as.

I know we are here to play Mafia, not to discuss the politics of language, but really. Don't be an asshole and then try to justify it with "more open-minded than thou" logic.

[fathom42]

Ugh, my intuition is really telling me a certain player is scum, but I don't want to put the spotlight on them just yet. For three reasons: one, I would come off hypocritical after all my speeches about day 1; two, my intuition could be wrong and I feel I should wait for when I have a better case against them, and three, I want to keep scum in the dark, make them second guess themselves and look for changes in behavior after posting this. I honestly don't know if I should even be posting this since it goes against every strategy I decided on coming into the game, but for now

Unvote

PS, what do you guys think the setup is? For now I'm feeling 2 mafia, 6 town, and a power role (doctor if I had to guess)

You probably would have been better off not posting this. Flat-out saying that you're looking for changes in behavior kind of defeats the purpose of keeping scum in the dark. :/

[syndromeofadown]

LOL ur probly rite. OR MAYBE THAT'S WHAT I WANT YOU TO THINK?

[inte]

Yo, Inte. What do you think of Shii/SOAD? I've been asking this for awhile, and I'd like an answer.

they have conflicting opinions on day one tactics. one favors being passive and the other aggressive.

both feels to be town

4) him and his are non gendered terms on the internet. i don't assume anyone is male or female. i actually assume everyone is transgendered. it really shouldn't be relevant if you're guy gal or other though.

Since when? I have never been in any online environment where it was considered acceptable to refer to someone explicitly identified as female as "him" or "he."

Also, were I transgendered I would probably appreciate being referred to either by one of the invented non-gendered pronouns or by the pronoun that corresponds to the gender I have identified myself as.

I know we are here to play Mafia, not to discuss the politics of language, but really. Don't be an asshole and then try to justify it with "more open-minded than thou" logic.

there is no explicit confirmation that tierce is a he or she, nor do i care because it is irrelevant. i can refer to people as "it" if that makes you feel better, but really were here to play mafia. ill use him. i apologize if i offend, i don't mean to.

Ugh, my intuition is really telling me a certain player is scum, but I don't want to put the spotlight on them just yet. For three reasons: one, I would come off hypocritical after all my speeches about day 1; two, my intuition could be wrong and I feel I should wait for when I have a better case against them, and three, I want to keep scum in the dark, make them second guess themselves and look for changes in behavior after posting this. I honestly don't know if I should even be posting this since it goes against every strategy I decided on coming into the game, but for now

Unvote

PS, what do you guys think the setup is? For now I'm feeling 2 mafia, 6 town, and a power role (doctor if I had to guess)

i feel like town is underpowered. the 1/3 chance of having an extra vanilla puts the town at a disadvantage.

VOTE: tierce

2) it kind of is scummy behavior to point out someone elses flaws when you have made the same mistake. i think its only to misdirect attention.

What, are you talking about fathom42, or about me? Please be specific.

fathom42. i was refering to him pointing out my OMGUS

[inte]

derp its more like 1/4 but really

[Tierce]

fathom42. i was refering to him pointing out my OMGUS

Then it begs the question: If you think

his

action is scummy, why have you voted on

me

?

[Tierce]

Ugh, my intuition is really telling me a certain player is scum, but I don't want to put the spotlight on them just yet. For three reasons: one, I would come off hypocritical after all my speeches about day 1; two, my intuition could be wrong and I feel I should wait for when I have a better case against them, and three, I want to keep scum in the dark, make them second guess themselves and look for changes in behavior after posting this. I honestly don't know if I should even be posting this since it goes against every strategy I decided on coming into the game, but for now

Unvote

PS, what do you guys think the setup is? For now I'm feeling 2 mafia, 6 town, and a power role (doctor if I had to guess)

*laughs* You know, that used to be my playstyle, questioning everything and waiting on my suspicions before voicing them, and at times making statements like this.

Why did I stop? One too many times being lynched as town. >_< WIFOM, understandably, plays too much with town's patience. While I enjoy your apparently-cheerful outlook (this is a game, after all), beware town wrath. (Or cherish it, if you're scum; and then go and die an horrible death you bastard. *shakefist*)

I have no idea what the setup is. There are 12 possible combinations and I'm having enough trouble as it is trying to discern who's scum to bother overmuch with power roles just yet.

there is no explicit confirmation that tierce is a he or she, nor do i care because it is irrelevant. i can refer to people as "it" if that makes you feel better, but really were here to play mafia. ill use him. i apologize if i offend, i don't mean to.

Since when do you need any kind of confirmation? I've told you. It's on my profile. Please do me the kindness of referring to me by my chosen pronoun. "He" may be a gender-neutral pronoun, but I'm asking you not to use it to refer to me as a definite gender has been clarified.

[Shiidaji]

@Haycorn

If you cannot understand this, I question your grasp on this game.

Well then, if

you

apparently have a grasp on this game, do enlighten me as to what these 'facts' are derived from. No really, I'd like to hear it, because you're obviously a master at this game, able to weed out scum without batting an eyelash.

No.

[1]

All I see here is theory argument and fighting about who plays the game better. At first, SOAD's "no" post really stood out to me. I'm not sure what the point of posting such a rude response would be other than to keep the debate going and raise the level of hostility, which to my inexperienced eyes seems scummy.

[2]

Upon what has to be my fifth re-read (yes, I really was keeping up with the post on my phone) I think I can see where that anger was coming from, as Shii was definitely attacking SOAD's skill as a player, but by the same token, SOAD questioned all our skills first.

As for inte, you should really stop giving newbies a bad name and start learning some social skills. I am actually hesitant to think of you as mafia, because it would mean you are really, REALLY bad at it (and yes, I did just do what I criticized SOAD and Shii for doing.) And also, since your new reply just popped up, go back and review the thread. Tierce is female, and I'm not sure I'd refer to her as "kind-hearted."

I suppose at this point I would be most inclined to VOTE: VOTE: syndromeofadown. Sorry.

[3]

[1]

- First off, his 'No' wasn't towards that sentence.

[2]

- Trust me, this is nothing. You'll find that even in the newbie games there're way, way worse arguments and discussions between people. If you're going to find every little bicker scummy, then you won't get much done.

[3]

- Why are you sorry for voting?

I don't see any reasoning behind your vote besides "He's angry." What about SOAD feels scummy to you?

@Everyone else

- Do you find Haycorn's jump on the SOAD wagon scummy? Which of the two feels scummier?

More to come in a bit.

[Sampson]

My apologies for not posting recently. I've been a bit busy. Reading now!

[haycorn]

@Shiidaji
I know that the "No" wasn't towards that sentence; it was towards "Is that clear enough for you" or wording like that. I was just quoting what I thought was relevant. My read on SOAD based on the discussion was not that he was angry or that he was fighting. It was the WAY he went about it. As I explained to Tierce, I felt like his "No" post was intended to provoke hostility and more fighting. It did not seem to be a response that indicated an actual interest in discussing the theory behind the discussion. Maybe he was just really irritated or not willing to keep talking to you. I don't know. All I can say is that my read is and continues to be that he was poking the argument with a stick, and that struck me as scummy.

I'm not sorry for voting and am not even sure why I kept that word in there. I had been going to say that my vote was not because of what SOAD said, but because of how he said it, and that it was not my entry into your little tiff.

Was there an SOAD wagon? I was of the impression that all three votes for him came at totally different times for totally different reasons. I'd hate to be on a wagon and not know it.

@inte
Can I call you she? xie? hir?

[Shiidaji]

@ Fathom

Personally, I think the Shii/SOAD thing was scummy from both sides. I don't approve of either of them resorting to personal attacks (i.e. "I question your grasp on this game," Shii's sarcasm, etc.). Either one of them could be baiting the other, trying to get them to post something reactionary. I truly hope that the rest of the game is more civil than what just went down, for its easy for scum to play the game when they have their targets angry.

Again, you're going to have to get a little rough to get anywhere on MS. What I did was laughable.
Why do you think baiting for reactions scummy?

I understand you've all come from different sites where the overall scum meta is different, but I disagree. The stronger a reaction is, the more a person plays with his heart. Scum are scared of being caught, try to push suspicion on others, and don't want to attract attention.

What do you make of Inte's recent posts?

@Workdawg

When you 'gather your thoughts', can you give me what you've got on Haycorn, Soad, and Inte? Kthnxbbs.


-
Tierce's wall had nothing but fluff in it. Eh.
-

@SOAD

Ugh, my intuition is really telling me a certain player is scum, but I don't want to put the spotlight on them just yet. For three reasons: one, I would come off hypocritical after all my speeches about day 1; two, my intuition could be wrong and I feel I should wait for when I have a better case against them, and three, I want to keep scum in the dark, make them second guess themselves and look for changes in behavior after posting this. I honestly don't know if I should even be posting this since it goes against every strategy I decided on coming into the game, but for now UnvotePS, what do you guys think the setup is? For now I'm feeling 2 mafia, 6 town, and a power role (doctor if I had to guess)

Town doesn't PRsearch. Scum does. We gain nothing from the information, and that line of discussion lets scum decide who potential PRs are from replies.

[Shiidaji]

Edit:
Baiting for reactions

is

* scummy.


Haycorn, let's word this another way. What is scummy about provoking someone? How is it provoking if he was 'not willing to keep talking with [me]'?


Wagon is just a common term for the group of players voting a person.
Though obviously when it comes to the scummyness of a wagon-jump, timing and reasoning matter.

[haycorn]

@Shii

I think maybe I see "provoking" and "baiting for reactions" to be, if not synonymous, at least very close to one another. If he made the post solely to get you more angry, I see that as sowing discord, which I see as scummy. Maybe I'm wrong. That's why I'm in a newbie game, because I've only ever done this five years ago in a totally different setup, and there's only so much I can learn by reading completed games. If he just wasn't willing to keep talking, than that wouldn't be provoking, but that's not how I read that post.

Ahh. I was thinking of wagon in terms of more of a bandwagon, and wanted to say that I voted for him for my own reason, not because anyone else did.

[Workdawg]

Sorry, I ended up getting tied up in another game all day. The day just ended though, so I'll have time to dedicated to getting fully caught up here tomorrow.

When I first read SOADs post speculating about the setup, I thought he was questioning how the game setup worked. Upon further reading, it looks like he might be speculating about how it has actually been applied to this game. Generally this is bad for town, as speculation like this could potentially give scum additional clues to who the power roles are. I don't think he is scummy for doing it, but I wouldn't talk about it anymore.

[Sampson]

SOAD and inte seem to be the main objects of suspicion at this point. I honestly don't get any scum vibes, for the most part, from SOAD. He strikes me as more stubborn and unfamiliar with the flow of the game than anything else. This post does warrant a response, however:

Ugh, my intuition is really telling me a certain player is scum, but I don't want to put the spotlight on them just yet. For three reasons: one, I would come off hypocritical after all my speeches about day 1; two, my intuition could be wrong and I feel I should wait for when I have a better case against them, and three, I want to keep scum in the dark, make them second guess themselves and look for changes in behavior after posting this. I honestly don't know if I should even be posting this since it goes against every strategy I decided on coming into the game, but for now

Unvote

PS, what do you guys think the setup is? For now I'm feeling 2 mafia, 6 town, and a power role (doctor if I had to guess)

In any other game, I would find this more than enough of a reason to vote you, but this is a Newbie game. As a result, I see this as more of a newbtown mistake than anything else. The post seems very genuine to me. If you have someone you suspect, pursue them. Don't let them possibly get away. Even if you're wrong, it provides more information to the town. You may come off as hypocritical here, but because this game is designed for you to learn, it isn't that big of a deal.

The "for the most part" from above is because of your last question, which I feel is far more likely by itself to be a newbscum mistake. At this point, no one knows for sure what the setup is, unless their name is iamausername, and he's not allowed to post. Like my fellow SE said, a question like that can out PRs and that's not helping the town at all. PRs help the town, after all.

I'm not as sure about inte's alignment, so I have to give him a null read for now. He admitted to intending to lurk, which is bad, since lurking means no contributing. You've also stated that you've had experience with Mafia before, so I'm not as inclined to look at that as a newbie mistake. But I'd like to know, do you genuinely believe Tierce is scum (you are voting for her, after all)? If so, based on your posts, I'm not so sure I understand your case on her. Care to explain it?

[inte]

UNVOTE:

i got things to say later

[Workdawg]

Let's see...

Haycorn

- I don't get many scummy vibes from her. I think the case she's presented for her vote on SOAD is reasonable, though maybe a little misguided. Normally scum want to try and coast under the radar, not drawing too much attention to themselves. Haycorn's reason for voting SOAD is because he seemed like he was bickering with Shii and trying to provoke him for no real reason. I can see this argument, but it seems counter productive for a scum player to do. There are a couple things about her ISO that concern me though. The "sorry" immediately after her vote seems a bit off. There's really no reason to apologize for a vote. Even if you have a bad reason for voting, your reason should support the vote. The other thing is the confusion about the wagon. As someone else mentioned, generally anytime people are voting for the same person, it's considered a wagon. This can easily be chalked up to a newbie mistake though.

inte

- It's hard to get a read on him. I get the sense that English isn't his first language due to some strange wording. However, I think he's got some interesting analysis of various posts and I think he's got some potential to be helpful to town because of that; if we can overcome the language barrier. The lurking was pretty scummy, but it's possible that was just a newbie mistake. It's hard to say as I've seen both newbtown and newbscum do that.

@inte

- I like the fact that you are posting now, keep it up. Tell us what you think, it can only help the town!

SOAD

- Something about SOAD is still rubbing me the wrong way. My vote for him was simply a pressure vote and the reason I provided was actually really crappy, but his reaction to it was fine. I'm having trouble grasping his reasoning for being reluctant to scumhunt. Yes, we don't and won't have any facts today. It's very likely that we will lynch a townie today. But the discussions and reactions that are generated by making a case against someone, voting for them, and the eventual lynch will all give us a lot of information to look back on D2. We shouldn't be afraid to scumhunt just because we might lynch a townie today. If no one scumhunts, then there is no point in even having a D1. His vote for me based on my record, and then his "is that ethical" thing... I just don't know about that. He's literally posted no real analysis of anything that I can see. Massive IIOA (information instead of analysis) going on her. This is generally a scumtell. Also,

@SOAD

- I understand the desire to not out your suspect, because the longer you wait, the more potential evidence you can gather, but you really should tell us who it is and why you think they are scummy. Their reaction to being called out as scum will probably give us a lot more information than waiting to see if they slip up any more. In addition, having 8 sets of eyes scrutinizing that persons play is going to be a lot more effective than only 1.

[haycorn]

Not that it matters, but the wagon confusion really was just me being new and uninformed. I conflated wagon and sleeping. I get it now, though.