Monty Python Quest for the holy grail, GAME OVER!!!

[mathcam]

Your mother smells of \confirmberries.

Cam

[mathcam]

Wah, wah, wah...that's all you ever do is complain, Dragon Slayer. Geez. A role? Mod status? Next, he'll be asking for the world. I say don't give it to him.

Cam

[mathcam]

Cam

[mathcam]

My guesses so far:
French = Mafia Family A
3 headed giant = Either Mafia Family B or SK
Giant Rabbit? = SK

In addition, the black knight must be something. The Knights who say "Ni" as well...they both seem like kind of evil roles to me, but that sure makes for a lot of evil.

I'll

Random Vote: God

Cam

[mathcam]

I think Macros was talking about the process of coutning the votes, not the votes themselves, but I'm not sure.

Wacky, 6 out of 19 alive non-me players already had votes. That's a 1 in 3 three chance of my random vote landing on someone who already had one. I actually thought about re-rolling because I thought someone would make your exact argument, but I mean come on...1 in 3...

Cam

[mathcam]

I like the mason + role blocker idea for the Knights who say Ni, but I think given all the evil roles, the Blakc Knight's more likely to be a vigilante.

As for proceeding with the game, we've got a lot of random votes and I don't find anyone overtly suspicious yet. I'll leave my vote for now.

Cam

[mathcam]

Well, speculation is important, but there's also a game to be played here. People not voting...what exactly are you waiting for? Someone to jump out and proclaim they're a baddie? It's not going to happen, so out with your suspicions and let's seem some attacks. Keep it clean,

Cam

[mathcam]

Darkblade, you couldn't have said this at the time of voting? I lied when I said my vote was random...I thought darkblade, because of his lack of explanation and the lack of the word "random" was hinting that he had information about God but didn't want to reveal his cop role.

Bah.

Unvote: God

Cam

[mathcam]

I hate the "third/fourth on a bandwagon" argument. Don't you think by now the mafia are learning to avoid it???

I think it probably only feels that way because you've heard it so many times in all your games. I think it's a psychological trap that less inexperienced players can find themselves easily falling into as mafia. But personally, I think it applies more to mini games...

Cam

[mathcam]

I suggest that if conversation doesn't pick up in 2 -3 days maybe we could get a deadline then.

I find that awfully suspicious. It sounds like he's particularly eager for day to end.

Cam

[mathcam]

I think that's a good theory, Night Stalker, especially about the bunny. We'll have to keep that in mind. I also wonder if the bunny's lack of kill was not because of a doc protection, but because of something extra the bunny has to do to complete the kill or something. Oh, and what about that monster in the cave behind the bunny? Did it have a name?

Cam

[mathcam]

Hm. A "duh" might be in order.

Cam

[mathcam]

Happy that his taunting had acheived the desired effect Quagmire turned for home, only to be assualted by some so fast and terifying, he barely had time to scream before his head was ripped off!

Hey, now that you mention it, so did I, but re-reading, it sounds to me like it was almost certainly the aforementioned Legendary Black Beast of Aaaauuugh!!! Right? He could barely get the scream off....fast and terrifying... Who's with me? The bunny didn't rip people's heads off...it gnawed them. And it didn't terrify anyone! (At least, not at first). I think we've found an SK.

Cam

[mathcam]

Did he? Probably, given this quote on that page:

"He'll bite your head clean off!"

Okay, okay, I take my brilliant idea back.

Cam

[mathcam]

Yeah, but that was a joke.

Cam

[mathcam]

A backup serial killer...now there's an interesting idea, though slightly difficult to work.

[mathcam]

Vote: God

again because he's already got a few and jadesmar's less suspicious.

Cam

[mathcam]

Agreed.

Unvote, Vote: God

Cam

[mathcam]

Yeah, I mean it sounds very much like he had to BS a role, and it's too early to tell what roles are in the game, so he picked someone extremely obscure so as to minimize the chance that someone could come out and contradict him. Unfortunately for him, I don't think he did a very good job coming up with a role claim to fit the role.

Wait, that's not God! It's

El Diablo

!

Cam

[mathcam]

Really? I kind of liked this idea...

2) The heads of the three-header? Such as when they get confused and start arguing with each other.

Think about it. They just found out who each other were, and as bane221 points out, they might be forced (by their role PM) to start arguing. DS and the other head get told this, and they realize they won't be able to vote all day. DS also realizes that he will be noticed if they don't vote today, so he claims he has no idea why he can't vote, leading us to believe that it's some kind of role-blocker.

Fortunately, there's a way to test my theory. Everyone simply vote and unvote someone. Do it at random if you want, and you don't actually have to unvote if you're voting for someone you find suspicious. We just want to verify that everyone has the ability to vote. If everyone but DS does have the ability to vote, he's probably truthful in saying he doesn't know why he can't vote. If there are precisely two people who can't or refuse to vote, we can rest fairly assured that these are the remaining two heads.

Note we're not losing anything by pursuing this plan. If DS is telling the truth and someone out there is a vote-blocker, there's no point in coming out. This plan is simple and essentially foolproof, so there's no point exposing unless we're about to lynch someone you know to be innocent.

Vote: Dragon Slayer

Unvote: Dragon Slayer

Cam

[mathcam]

What's nto to believe? But in any case, that's the beauty! No harm, no foul. It's just a test to possibly catch DS in a lie. And, of course, anyone already voted today is exempt from having to vote and unvote.

Cam

[mathcam]

I guess it was my idea...so unless there's some eager newbie wanting to make a helpful name for themselves, I'll do it.

Cam

[mathcam]

People alive: People who haven't voted today are in bold.

Bane221

Darkblade

Dragon Slayer

Fishbulb

Jadesmar

Korais666

Leonidas

Loose Cannon

massive
mathcam

Mole

Night Stalker
Orbiting

Polotet

Rite
Thoth

Wacky

Wearbear

[mathcam]

However, one thing I have to say is: why would I come out and say that I can't vote. If I was pressured to vote later on then maybe I'd say that, but that wasn't the case.

I think I actually addressed this point in the original post. The argument was that if you

are

evil, it'd be much more devastating if we discovered that you couldn't vote rather than you just telling us.

Cam

[mathcam]

People yet to vote: Bane221, Dragon Slayer, jadesmar, Polotet.

Cam

[mathcam]

It's quite possible (probable?) that the vote/unvote thing won't amount to much, but it certainly doesn't hurt us, and might catch us both remaining heads (i.e. Dragon Slayer and someone else if they're the only two people unable to vote).

Cam

[mathcam]

What's the deal with Polotet? He's been replaced in several games already, hasn't he? Jadesmar's still around, and bane221 was until recently very active...

Loose Cannon? You're voting to stand on Leonidas?

Cam

[mathcam]

Tim is certainly in the game, and with the number of baddies we've already identified, there's no way he's bad. Leo is almost %100 cleared in my mind.

I do want to see the remaining three people vote before the end of the day, but I'm going to

Vote: Loose Cannon

.

Cam

[mathcam]

Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead!

Cam

[mathcam]

Hmmm...desperate scramble for a role-claim? Probably.

Cam

[mathcam]

Agreed. As LC said above, there's no point in not waiting. What if the theory's right and this is our one chance to prove it?

Cam

[mathcam]

That argument might hold some water if we weren't specifically waiting for two of these people (jadesmar and Polotet) before we proceed. A soon as they vote and unvote, we can pursue other options. I think if we don't wait for them, we end up rewarding lurking.

Cam

[mathcam]

Thanks, Macros.

God, we're testing your ability to vote today. Dragon Slayer cannot, and one theory is that he's one of the now-two-headed three-headed knight. So if you could vote and unovte someone at your earliest convenience...

You too, player to be named later...

Cam

[mathcam]

Hmmm....Pontolet....that's close, I guess...

Cam

[mathcam]

This may be jumping the gun slightly, but we could just lynch Polotet.

Case A: The theory that Dragon Slayer and Polotet are the two remaining heads of the three-headed knight is true, and we find that out when we lynch Polotet, and go after DS tomorrow.

Case B: The theory is not true, but we've still shown DS to be cleared of this charge, and we've lynched a non-poster. I don't find anyone else particularly suspicious, so lynching Polotet sure seems like a better thing to do than pick a random active player and go after them.

In either case, I think this game's interesting, and would hate to see it die because people lost interest because we waited too long.

Unvote, Vote: Polotet

Cam

[mathcam]

Okay, okay, it doesn't guarantee that you're the third head. But if the only two people who didn't vote today are you and Polotet, and Polotet is one of the other heads, I'm just saying I'm going to be looking your way tomorrow.

Cam

[mathcam]

Agreed. In case they don't transfer over,

Unvote: polotet, Vote: mikehart

.

This is ridiculous.

Cam

[mathcam]

Note the lack of actual voting....vote stands.

Cam

[mathcam]

10 to lynch. Not that I'm stopping anyone, I just don't want anyone to be surprised.

Cam

[mathcam]

Kill kill kill! Die die die!

Cam

[mathcam]

So Leo automatically died because the rabbit's gone? Am I reading that correctly? Weird. And what happened to Wacky? This doesn't look like any of our previous killing groups.

Cam

[mathcam]

Oh yeah, and woo! on lynching evil evil mikehart, but he wasn' t one of the three heads. I wonder if this says anything about Dragon Slayer. Incidentally, can you now vote, DS? Can anyone else now not vote?

Cam

[mathcam]

Oh yeah on both of those. Duh. Thanks for saying "You're an idiot" so politely.

Cam

[mathcam]

Sounds pretty reasonable to me. Can anyone not vote?

Cam

[mathcam]

No offense, but I doubt someone would come out with that today after what I was "put" through for it yesterday.

Awww...poor DS...did we hurt your feelings?

No offense taken, DS, but we really didn't "put you through" much, right? And someone coming out saying the couldn't vote today would make it all the more likely that there was a role causing this rather than it being a by-product of being a bad guy.

Oh, and you're not off the hook yet. Only two people were unwilling/unable/unsomething to forth a vote yesterday. One was evil, one is you.

I almost want to suggest weeding out by voting and unvoting everyone again, but that was such a pain in the ass yesterday that maybe it's just not even worth it.

Cam

[mathcam]

When stuck, go after a random lurker.

Vote: mole

Cam

[mathcam]

Get annoyed with Bane all you want, Fishbulb, but Werebear was making a very valid point. Even if it wasn't addressed to him, all he was saying was that an improved list would be:

Evil

:
Three-headed Knight
French Guards
Harmless Bunny

Almost Certainly Good Because There's No More Room Left For Evil People

:
Black Knight
Knights of the Round Table (King Arther, Sir Lancelot, Sir Robin, Sir Gallahad, Sir Bedevere, Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Film)
Concorde
Patsy
Sir Robin's Minstrels
Prince Herbert
Tim (the Enchanter)Brother Maynard
Narrator
Bridge Keeper
Knights Who Say "Ni!"
Castle Anthrax (Zoot, Dingo)
Dennis
Witch
Roger (the Shrubber)

Cam

[mathcam]

Fine, but Werebear's point had a larger context. People have been implying all game that other groups are possibly evil, while all along Werebear has making arguments to the contrary. It was not specifically a response to your last post, but rather a point simply worth emphasizing. Maybe he misunderstood what you were getting at with your post (i.e. targeting Bane), but there's no over-emphasizing good points.

Cam

[mathcam]

Temporarily good enough for me.

Unvote: Saigon

Cam

[mathcam]

I guess I like the Bane thing the best (when he suggested that the three-headed giant might possibly not be evil). Sounds like he was testing the waters to see if he'd have to start preparing a false role claim.

Vote: Bane

Cam

[mathcam]

Sure, but that's going to happen anyway. It's just as easy for a mafia to do the same thing hoping to get some bonus goodie points for doing so. It's certainly possible that, as you claim, you were simply unfamiliar with the chracters and thought the 3-headed giant might be good. But even if this is true doesn't mean you're not mafia.

And

there's the chance that you're lying.

I remain unconvinced, and I also lack anyone better to go after.

Cam

[mathcam]

People Not Voting

:

Bane221
Dragon Slayer
Korais666
Loose Cannon
massive
Night Stalker
Rite


It's tempting to dump the most suspicious and go after some lurkers, but I realize some people are waiting for Bane to speak up. What better way than giving him some more votes?

Cam

[mathcam]

Well, it sure couldn't hurt to give us a counter-target. Not that this responsibility falls solely on

your

shoulders, but it couldn't hurt to try.

Cam

[mathcam]

I too would like to hear specifics of how the Knights work, though this is of course a judgment call on their behalf. As long as we're not endangering the usefuless of any of their abilities, anything we can do to find out more about how this game works is good.

Cam

[mathcam]

Are you suggesting some kind of other win condition? I'm not sure how likely it is that Macros would put something like that in his game.

Cam

[mathcam]

Wow, reasons on a bandwagon. That's new. I like it.

Unvote: bane221, Vote: Night Stalker

Cam

[mathcam]

DS is still second in line at the top of my supsicious list, and now he's defending the person who has recently wrestled away his title? Sounds pretty good to me. My vote stays.

Cam

[mathcam]

But like I said I'll change my vote to Nightstalker if he gets another vote

How odd...you don't want to put the 4th vote on Night Stalker, but you'll put the 5th? Basically, you'll continue the bandwagon only if it's inevitable? If Night Stalker's evil, I'm going to be looking pretty hard in your direction. Oh, and in DS's. Good thing I have two eyes.

Cam

[mathcam]

I'm sure, that you (Mathcam) would vote for me or DS if a bandwagon started against us even if you claim Night Stalker is your prime suspect.

Yup, probably. But that doesn't hold for everybody...only those of you who are on my "more suspicious than not" list.

Cam

[mathcam]

Well, I'll certainly concede that the Black Knight is in the game. He definitely seems like he'd be evil, but Night Stalker has a point that he hasn't killed anyone yet. Of course, if he were evil, this would also be a great ploy for him. Especially with doc protection. Hmm.

Cam

[mathcam]

I'm ver surprised by all this. The whole game we've been listing people who we thought would be evil, and the black knight was among them. And then someone comes out and says "Yes, I'm the Black Knight. But I'm good" and we're all like "Oh, how surprising. The black knight is good. Okay," rather than "Die, you fiendous murdering scum!" Yes, not acting as an SK until the end

would

be an awesome play, wouldn't it?

And maybe he gets a bonus for not killing. We all know he's a horrible fighter. Maybe he's in training or something. Maybe he can store up kills. And now that he knows we're on to him, he could unleash them all tonight. I definitely agree it's

possible

he's good, but anything's possible. Isn't leaving him alive a huge risk to take for very little possible gain? Plus, it's not like we have any better leads.

Evil in this game is those who opposed King Arthur's quest. The Black Knight opposed King Arthur's quest. You can draw your own conclusions, I guess.

My vote (as you may have guessed), stands.

Cam

[mathcam]

Okay, good counter-example. But they also weren't trying to kill any of the main characters. My concern is that we leave it too late. If we assume he's good and our numbers dwindle down too far, one kill might be all it takes.

It's true he could be investigated....though that's also true about whoever we pick on next, right? But fine....*goes and sulks in corner...*

Unvote: Night Stalker.

Cam

[mathcam]

Well I guess I'm at a loss. I still think Night Stalker is our best bet. I'm hesitant to bandwagon someone new at this point, simply because there might not be enough time to do so properly. *prepares to get head bit off* Is no lynch an option?

Cam

[mathcam]

So we at least agree on "Night Stalker or no one". That's good.

Let's see. No lynch kind of sucks because lynching is our one collective tool for dealing with evil. what's the trade-off? We get some investigations...evil gets to take a life (or more). It's really hard to say. Personally, I'm leaning toward lynching Night Stalker, but I definitely seem to be in the minority of that opinion. I still can't get over the fear that he's had the ability to save up kills, or even if not, he's cleverly been not killing just so he could eventually make this claim.

Vote: Night Stalker

This'll change to a vote for no lynch if a bunch of people agree to this, but I don't really see it changing to anything other than that.

Cam

[mathcam]

Cocky attitute notwithstanding, it's not really a reason for a vote, is it? In my mind, there's no way Concorde is evil. He might be lying about his role, but I personally feel it's definitely in the game and no one else has contradicted. I see absolutely no merits in going after Loose Cannon today.

Night Stalker, the "I have a powerful pro-town role and if you lynch me you'll lose it" argument just doesn't work. I'm not convinved you

are

pro-town, at least not to the extent that I would rather not lynch

anybody

than lynch you. We've already lost several good pro-twon roles, so most likely what's going to happen is that we wake up tomorrow and we have no new information and we're back in the same spot, but with two more people dead, and us

still

not knowing about whether your role is good or not. How is that good for us?

And, as a side note, just keep in mind that the worst thing we could possibly have happen is we try to jump bandwagons only to find the deadline happening when the votes are split 50/50 and we lose both.

Cam

[mathcam]

Ummm...isn't it 8 to lynch?

Cam

[mathcam]

I too suspect Night Stalker is actually dead, but the other idea is somewhat intriguing. I have no idea if I would try to lynch him again.

Cam

[mathcam]

Wow. Well then.

Arguments against killing Night Stalker again:
- It is somewhat unlikely, though certainly not unheard of (Leonidas jumps to mind) that an evil would be given lynch immunities.
- There have been no deaths from the Black Knight.

Arguments for killing Night Stalker again:
- He's still the Black Knight.
- In the movie, the Black Knight attempted (or at least threatened) to kill Arthur even after he was missing limbs, which he is currently doing.
- If he's evil in a group by himself, it's not unreasonable to think that his role might be something evil but that is weakened each time he is lynched.
- Though no deaths, there are several scenarios which explain this. He might have the ability to store them (and might have lost them when lynched), or he might have some other win condition. A black knight who wants the death of everyone but doesn't have the means to bring about this end does seem farily fitting.
- If he will take a couple of lynches to kill, it's certailny best to get them done early. It sounds like it will take two more, one for the legs, and one for the death.

I know some of you disagree, but it seems fairly clear to me that

Vote: Night Stalker

is the right thing to do. And if he doesn't die, I think we've got to ask for vig-kills if there are any.

I don't think we should jump to the lynch by any means...let's work this through to the right conclusion, but I'm voting with my gut for now.

Cam

[mathcam]

We must not lynch Nightstalker again!!!

He only lost his arms, clearly he'll only lose his legs if we lynch him again.

Ummm...okay. I said that exact thing in my post above, but I certainly don't see how this implies we shouldn't lynch him. What makes you think vig-killing him would have any different of an effect?

Cam

[mathcam]

Three-headed was quite possibly blocked or hit a doc-protect. I'd be a little surprised if it were anything more than that.

Mathcam - What more do I have to do to prove my innocence?

I guess my question is for you is what

have

you done to prove your innocence? Yes, I already know you're the black knight, but I certainly don't see why lynching you is a waste. If you're evil, we have to get you good and dead before the endgame. Look at Leonidas in Famous Women Mafia, who had a bunch of kill immunities and was evil. If they had let him live to the end, he proabbly would have dominated. Having someone around who's possible evil and who's hard to lynch is simply a liability. I think you're title "Black Knight" and the role he played in the movie certainly qualifies you as "possibly evil."

It wasn't awfully fast to me. I spent 20 minutes thinking about the pros and cons, which is a lot more time than most people (myself included) spend on most posts.

Though I am a little shocked that you're voting for Loose Cannon instead of me. Hmm. Maybe this is an alternate win condition for Night Stalker. He knows Loose Cannon's role and part of his job is to kill him. Note that this paragraph is admittedly wild but possible speculation. Or are you just that sure?

Cam

[mathcam]

Maybe he's not a killing group. Maybe he has an alternative win condition, maybe even something to do with Loose Cannon. But believing the Black Knight is pro-town is simply beyond me. I can't just find room for that possibility in my head.

Cam

[mathcam]

Fine, fine. But when he comes back and kills us all in our sleep, I'll be the last one laughing. Well, dead laughing, but laughing nonetheless. (Funny, I seem to remember making an identical post yesterday).

Unvote: Night Stalker, Vote: Saigon

Cam

[mathcam]

Sounds good to me. I feel like we have a lot more people in this game than are posting...

Cam

[mathcam]

massive's active in other games...So is Thoth. Hmmm.

Cam

[mathcam]

Neener? Sounds like a taunt to me....FRENCHIE!!!!

Just kidding.

Cam

[mathcam]

I still

am

only 40% sure, or probbaly even less. There are coutnless explanations possible, each of which I've made several times, so I won't belabor the point. But there is room for as many killing groups as you want in a game as long as they're sufficiently weak. We already know the Three heads didn't make a kill last night. This might have been a form of inherent weakness in their role, rather than a role-block (there were arguments against the role block above), thus allowing the possibility for another weak killing role, say, oh, I don't know, The Black Knight.

The issue wasn't so much whether the Black Knight was killing or not, but that Night Stalker was scum covering up by grabbing a role he didn't think was in the game, but that he could turn good.

Really? That didn't seem like much of a possibility to me, really. Sure, another reason to lump on the bandwagon, but it really seems like the Black Knight had to be in the game, especially with the presence of the Green Knight.

I might have to throw a

FOS: Fishbulb

on that one. I think there's enough merits on the NS bandwagon that we don't have to start making some up. Ah, what the heck? I've pretty much lost all my suspicions fo Saigon, so

Unvote: Saigon, Vote: Fishbulb

.

The Concorde claim seems pretty reasonably eo me, and I definitely agree with the vig kill on NS, mostly because no one will help me lynch him.

Cam

[mathcam]

Ah, god dammit. Okay, well I deserved that, I guess. But I still maintain that it was clear that the Black Knight would probably be in the game.

Cam

[mathcam]

Oh, I was implying that he was a head in the first place. He would believe a claim of Green Knight because he would want to keep him alive.

Sheesh. That argument's so valid I'm almost tempted to vote for myself. I do keep notes on the game, but I have a wonderful habit of only writing things that happen and not reading them before posting. And even then, my notes are occasionally sparse. I don't even remember whether I believed the claim at the time, I just wrote the claim down and never bothered to modify it upon God's death.

In any case, I'll

Unvote: Fishbulb

for coming up with such a good argument.

Cam

[mathcam]

Hey wait, if I were one of the heads, how would I have known that God was my co-head on day 1? Didn't they only learn who each other were the night after?

Cam

[mathcam]

And werebear's the only other one to post. I guess at least if one of the three of us is evil, they'll be plenty of juicy posts to pick through later. I'm going after....

Vote: God

,

though *ah-hem* I'm never opposed to lynching any knights of a particular color that happen to currently be partially limbless.

Cam

[mathcam]

But then Mathcam unvotes Fishbulb and goes and votes god, who's gone ahead and voted for me today. And Fishbulb unvotes Mathcam, just for answering half of his suspicions. Which makes both of them suspicious in my book. Could they BOTH be heads or Frenchies, working together to make people think that they're not on the same side, while bringing up and then dismissing suspicions against themselves?

I can definitely see what you're saying. That whole page had this nice "Let's stop fighting and be friends" feel to all of it. But a lot of interesting questions were raised and some were answered. I'm still a little suspicious of Fishbulb, but less so than lurkers. Mostly, I think we just got bored of taking stabs at each other while no one else was participating.

Cam

[mathcam]

One last pro-lynching-black-knight possibility (sorry Night Stalker ) is that a possible weakening of the 3 heads (I mentioned earlier that it's possible to have 4 killing groups if some or all of them are somehow weakened) is that they can't kill on a night following a day without a lynch. That's the kind of role I like to put in my games. If this possibility holds any water, then lynching him might stop the three heads from killing again.

I realize this is somewhat remote, but we haven't come up with a good reason why the three heads couldn't/didn't kill last night, right? Role blocks have (sometimes) been reported to us. Mayvbe a doc just got lucky, or maybe there's something more to the story.

Cam

[mathcam]

By "reverse" I'm pretty sure he means "insane."

In any case,

Vote: Thoth

.

Thoth said it best himself: "Maybe its even best to lynch me anyhow because either I'm scum or we've found 3 scum", and I'm pretty sure it's just one scum.

Cam

[mathcam]

But, I guess if mathcam is voting for Thoth, then he didn't get a shrubbery.

Yup. (Though I'm not sure he was claiming that people would be told if they got a shrubbery)

Incidentally, I make it 5 for Thoth, and I agree we should wait for Bane.

Cam

[mathcam]

Sure, and that would be sweet, 'cause that'll make our next decision really easy.

I highly doubt there's another Arthur hiding somewhere but if there is, I would encourage them to come out. At this point, I'm perfectly happy trading off townies for evil one for one, especially since there's a chance Arthur wouldn't die overnight. And if he's telling the truth, he's almost certainly not evil, unlike some other roles that have been claimed.

I don't like the idea of a bunch of roles coming out as much as you, Fishbulb, but I think we've stopped the bleeing on this one, at least for the time being. My vote is to see how the Thoth lynch goes today and then decide between Orbiting and his other choices and or anyone else tomorrow.

Cam

[mathcam]

If he's scum then we've lynched one scum and are quite sure that Bane is scum aswell.

Whoa there! Say what now? We've only been dealing with the hypothetical "Bane supports Thoth even though he turned out to be evil" case.

FOS: Saigon

for being a little trigger-happy on tomorrow's lynch

already

.

Cam

[mathcam]

Just to make sure: Orbiting, you

are

getting very clear good/evil results, right? Not some fuzzy story which you're interpreting one way or another? I hate it when cops leave off little details like that.

Cam

[mathcam]

I still remain convinced that going after Thoth is right. Even if you did believe his role claim, we get the most information from killing him and we don't have to bandwagon any more roles out into the open.

Cam

[mathcam]

Yes, that was yet another thing I meant to point out about Thoth.

It's "Roger the Shrubber", not "Roger the Shrubbist." If that's not enough icing on the cake for you people...

Cam

[mathcam]

Yeah, Fishbulb, but that's just a way that his evil/good could be tainted. What I'm talking about is when instead of evil/good, the cop gets like "You find out that Player X has been reading the newspaper a lot recently" and somehow concludes that Player X is evil, and then tells the town that he's a cop and got a guilty investigation on Player X. Then the next day we go after the cop and he's like "Why are you going after me? I just reported my investigation. The PM

said

he read the newspaper a lot. What else was I supposed to conclude?" Then we all rolll our eyes in disgust.

I'm of course not saying Orbiting is doing this....I just wanted to make sure.

Cam

[mathcam]

A black knight?

Geez. I just won't quit, will I?

Cam

[mathcam]

Fishbulb makes a very valid point. We have three people essentially labeled evil by Orbiting, none of which have really offered a modicum of defense. Why would a pro-town vig start going after unknowns?

At the same time, I'm glad to see you're coming to the same conclusions as me about the Black Knight, Fishbulb, but I can't help but feel that this is tainted by the fact that you're trying to avoid the three of you being killed.

The lack of defenses is surprising, is it not? No accusations of each other, no pleas of innocence, just a cold realization that they're about to be killed.

Vote: Fishbulb

.

Cam

[mathcam]

Heck, it could have been any of us that found Saigon suspicious and wanted to kill him.

But over three people essentially

known

to be evil??? If evil wasn't abounding already, I'd through a big ol' FOS there, DS.

Cam

[mathcam]

Unvote: Fishbulb, Vote: Loose Cannon

.

Good point, Night Stalker. Plus, Fishbulb's a talker and there's no sense in getting rid of those until we have to.

Cam

[mathcam]

I'm not sure why you're getting frustrated at all, Werebear? Wasn't your point that you didn't think it was worthwhile going after the Black Knight? We're not. That's Night Stalker. Am I missing something?

Cam

[mathcam]

Oh, I was mostly joking in my top post. I agree that although he may be evil (and I seem to think more strongly than others that he is) it would be silly for us to go after him instead of one of "the three." Ever since then, I've just been debating which of the three to vote for.

Cam

[mathcam]

Ah, jeez. Orbiting, what's up? Come on. All of it. Keeping part of your role secret is good to an extent, but if we end up doing stupid things that we could have prevented as a town because of it, then it's not worth it.

But all in all, that last God post reeked of scumminess. Questioning Concorde after DS has cleared him? Though DS is a little suspicious himself...but he sounded pretty convincing in that post of his. In any case, DS is sure Concord is in the game, and it's been claimed by Loose Cannon with no contradictions. What else is there to say?

We're getting to the point where there may be such a

high

proportion of evil left that wrong moves become instantly fatal. So I now think we

should

force God and Fishbulb to reveal.

Cam

[mathcam]

Are we agreed that Fishbulb and God should role claim? I say yes.

Cam

[mathcam]

Unvote: Loose Cannon, Vote: Fishbulb

Claim, Fish boy!

Cam

[mathcam]

Hm, relatively believable.

Unvote: Fishbulb

.

Cam

[mathcam]

Yeah, peasant's just not that believable. Or, at least, as unbelievable as they're going to get, and

much

less believable than Brother Maynard. The one thing that stops me from being sure is that there were 2 minstrels in the game.

Vote: God

Cam

[mathcam]

I thought maybe the minstrels were masons or something. We have little information about roles after their death.

Cam

[mathcam]

What do you want me to say?

Honestly, something along the lines of "Hey, good sleuthing guys. You discovered me as a mafia. I'm very impressed with the town and its deductive reasoning" would be pretty nice.

Anyone want to finish him off?

Cam

[mathcam]

From Werebear's post last page, the people not yet claiming are

Dragon Slayer - hinted at a role
Bane221
Darkblade
mathcam
Rite
Wearbear

Cam

[mathcam]

I'm not sure what you're saying, Orbiting. Are you saying Webear returned a positive?

So it sounds like the head is killing again, and of course, the French.

I'm not so sure about your past investiations as targets, Orbiting...I'm not sure if it's just the fact that he claims to have protected me, but I'm not all that suspicious of Fishbulb.

Cam

[mathcam]

Me, Rite, and darkblade are the 3 unclaimed, right? We could force the claims, but it would be just as easy to make up a role...the only possible risk is that the one of the three that goes first happens to pick one of the roles that one of the other two has...pretty slim, if you ask me. I think I'd rather keep the mafia guessing as to where any/all remaining powerful roles are.

As for DS, there's few enough left that I think you've got to reveal everything you know, DS. There's no way we can know you and Loose Cannon aren't two remaining Frenchies with a tag-teamed role claim until you give us something very concrete in terms of a claim.

Cam

[mathcam]

Yeah, I was just discussing it as an option. I wasn't trying to imply that that's what you had said in your last post.

Cam

[mathcam]

How odd, he posted to say he was going to change the thread title, and then he didn't. I hope he doesn't mind if I do....

Cam

[mathcam]

If you say so...

I am, indeed, Sir Bors. My role is entirely useless now that the rabbit is dead. I'm sure Orbiting could verify my role (or at least that I'm pro-Arthurian) tonight by investigating me.

I'm not sure about the Dingo role. It sure felt like you were trying to slip it in there and try to get everyone else to move on.

Cam

[mathcam]

And even if Zoot is in the game, it's still a little weird. But let's not to anything until we hear from Darkblade.

Cam

[mathcam]

Dingle?

Cam

[mathcam]

However, I have found that I'm not successful every time, some people have... (ugh) morals and are resistant to my charms, while other enter right away.

Sorry for the double post...Do you know this because Macros tells you that they won't enter? Or because you tried to protect someone and they still died in the morning? I wonder if the rabbit had morals....

Cam

[mathcam]

Okay, so we're all agreed DS is Lancelot, then. Just say it, DS. I don't think anyone's going to be tricked.

Sketchy role claim + Dingle + No Other ideas =

Vote: Werebear

Cam

[mathcam]

One way of clarifying: WB, was "Dingle" a you-typo or a Macros-typo.

It's possible that scum was told one major role that's not in the game, also. DS might be a frenchie who was told that Lancelot was not in the game. This (and consequently, your third possibility, Orbiting) seems unlikely, as DS did seem somewhat adamant about Concorde being in the game. But why would Lancelot know this? (The role, not the movie character)

But it is hard to ignore a cop's reports, especially when he was write about God. Maybe Werebear will come back with a vehement anti-Loose Cannon post, or vice versa, and my wishy-washiness will be swayed one way or the other.

Cam

[mathcam]

I thought you knew a lot about the movie, Werebear, that's why I didn't push the vote based on the typo. But now that you're claiming it was a mod-type and not one of you own, I am definitely now curious about

Vote: Roger the Shrubbist I didn't catch the slip up.

If you knew that the mod made a typo in your own role, why would you vote for someone based on a similar "slip-up"?

But why is everyone so hellbent on protecting Mathcam? He doesn't seem that innocent to me.

Natural personal charm, I guess. I would suspect that if you blocked one head, that doesn't stop the kill. Maybe if you block the middle head? I don't even know if a distinction was made...it doesn't say anything on the front page.

I guess I'l follow DS's hunch between the two of them.

Vote: Darkblade

Cam

[mathcam]

Oh right. Good point.

Cam

[mathcam]

Okay, I'll switch.

Reason 1) Loose Cannon's been somewhat on the suspicious side all game. Darkblade really hasn't.
Reason 2) Orbiting's been correct on one account so far. The possibility that he's perfectly sane is a distinct possibility.
Reason 3) The only reason I was voting for Darkblade to start with was DS' gut feeling.
Reason 4) Darkblade's role claim of what Concorde/Patsy does seems more in line with DS's role than Loose Cannon's claim.
Reason 5) Even if Orbiting is wrong about which of the two is evil, we figure this out once and for all by lynching Loose Cannon.

Unvote: Darkblade, Vote: Loose Cannon

I think we should make a pact to play this 24/7 until we're done. This is just too exciting.

Cam

[mathcam]

I thought there were some things in Loose Cannons role description that was missing (ie: the passive ability). I figured he left it out on purpose. Loose Cannon is scum scum scum. Should I kill mathcam tonight? I think he's also evil. He went right along with my Darkblade vote. That's not like mathcam. Usually I'd expect him to debate it a bit as to which to vote for. This means that I think mathcam is also evil. Thoughts? (mathcam, you don't really count- I know your opinion on this )

I don't get it. I could see why you'd possibly think that Darkblade and I were French if Loose Cannon turns out to actually be Concorde/Patsy. But why would you possibly think the other way around? I just posted 5 reasons to vote Loose Cannon instead of darkblade. If I were French with Loose Cannon, wouldn't it be much more prudent to leave my vote on Darkblade, and switch my vote only if someone

else

made the argument to switch?

The reason I voted for Darkblade was because you did, DS, and for that reason alone. You've been saying all game that you were certain (or, at the least, nearly certain) that Loose Cannon was telling the truth, despite other people's arguments to the contrary. Then Darkblade comes out with a contradiction, and you stuck to your guns. Your gut feeling on which one was your partner based on how they presented the roles seemed like the best and clearest way for me to make up my mind on my vote.

I only insist on a debate when things are unclear. I didn't think this was, but then I changed my mind anyway. I am neither French nor a head, and I'm sure the people that are are laughing their heads off right now.

Cam

[mathcam]

Sorry, so much to say...

Since he knows he probably is going to die, he tries to clear mathcam by voting him in his final hours.

No. If he's French, who the hell would fall for what you suggest? He's not that dumb to suggest, and no one else is in this game is dumb enough to fall for it. "Oh, Loose Cannon is french and he voted for mathcam. Mathcam must be innocent!" Can you really imagine anyone saying that, or even Loose Cannon

thinking

anyone would think that? If he's innocent, well, that means you're French and are lying anyway.

I feel like some discussion of my role is merited. If Sir Bors weren't in the game, he would be the only one of Arthur's cadre of knights to be missing. I realize that he's not the most likely to be in this game, but it's not like there aren't other questionsable roles out there, and there is at least one reason (above) why you should believe my role is in the game. Sorry I don't have anything better than that.

Cam

[mathcam]

Well, I'm glad you decided to hold your sword and not kill me, DS, but this attention on me I think is ridiculous.

You're saying Sir Bors is the only knight in the movie not in the game? Brother Maynard is an equally obscure role and unprovable. Unless the

actual

head or Frenchie wants to come forward and claimed they tried to kill me on one of the nights Fishbulb claims to have protected me, then there's no reason to believe his claim. And

now

he's attempting to take credit for stopping last night's kill even though Werebear has admiitted to having blocked him last night.

Vote: Fishbulb

Cam

[mathcam]

I'm tempted to put the last vote on myself just so you guys feel stupid afterward, but unfortunately, that would do me little good. DS, how are you so convinced? Specifically which evil group do you think I'm a member of?

Cam

[mathcam]

Sigh, I know I'm not winning any friends with my Fishbulb/Werebear attack (including Werebear, who can cast my lynching vote), but doesn't our plan of "Have them target each other and see what happens" just have us fall right into our hands? Even evil on different teams can work together against a common goal (namely, us).

Fishbulb is on just about everyone's evil list and has claimed a role that is not only unprovable, but has bordered on being contradicted (when he claimed being the cause of the protection last night despite other claims).

Come on!!! Listen to me!!!

Cam

[mathcam]

Okay, but you guys are eating from Fishbulb's hands...

I guess Sir Bors, this time surviving the threat from the white rabbit, will meet his untimely demise from a soon-to-be mod-imposed deadline and lack of participation from the crowd. Oh well.

*twiddles his thumbs*

Cam

[mathcam]

How about we let me prove myself too?

We'll somehow bring back the bunny from the dead, and then I'll kill him, and we can all rejoice.

Damn. Sigh...

Maybe my voting record on the frenchies will help my case. Off to do research!

Cam

[mathcam]

I don't see why you had to kill me just because I was evil. Hypocrites.

I'd say go heads, but we're all dead now. Or are we?

Cam

[mathcam]

Mommy! Daddy! I found you!!!!

*giggles from the grave*

Cam

[mathcam]

<---- is UNKILLABLE!!!!!! MWA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!

Hold on, I'll catch up pretty soon.

Cam

[mathcam]

From what I can decipher from Macros' PM, I was distracted by a shiny grail last night. Werebear, I presume?

Cam

[mathcam]

Something doesn't seem right here...if Fishbulb were the last remaining evil, why would he have chosen to kill Werebear, the target he was purportedly protecting? That's a sure-fire way of getting his claim disproven. I think there's more than this scenario than meets the eye.

Unvote: Fishbulb

But I'll continue thinking about it.

Cam

[mathcam]

Hm, maybe I'll do that.

(See title)

Cam

[mathcam]

Oh, I just thought you wanted last night's, which I gave you. Here they are:

Good people: Thoth
Bad people: jadesmar, fishbulb, loosecannon, bane, werebear
Ruggedly handsome but still evil: mathcam1

Cam

[mathcam]

Okay, "Bad people" was a paraphrase...I didn't want to quote the mod, but essentially Werebear was not trying to aid me in my quest. Orbiting mentioned this as well. From we know about Werebear's role, this seems like a perfectly valid result for that.

Cam

[mathcam]

Hm, they were both listed in the PM as Werebear. But I too am not confused. The investigation in question is definitely night 6 and Werebear was still Robin during night 6. I'm perplexed.

But with that false ending bravado from Fishbulb, I'm pretty confident this is the right place for my vote to be. There's no way Fishbulb didn't read Darkblade's post where he said "this is the 2nd vote."

DS, I'm not sure what happened with my investigations, but there's no way Orbiting or I would make this stuff up. If Fishbulb's death really doesn't mark the end of the game, I think you have to kill NightStalker.

Vote: Fishbulb

Cam

[mathcam]

Good call, DS. I'm glad you didn't find my "Here's the last vote, now go kill someone else" post too suspicious.

And a big "I told you so" on the evilness of the Black Night for that whole game.

That was a lot of fun, Macros. Woo!

Cam

[mathcam]

Oh yeah, I meant to ask that. Other two heads, how did you happen to chance upon the same target? I picked the first alphabetically, hoping someone else would do the same. I was somewhat relieve that

I

didn't get killed by us.

Cam

[mathcam]

I tried to kill you as the last remaining head, I'm pretty sure. I was surprised it didn't go through, but that makes sense now. (Right, Macros?)

Cam