Open 41-Quicklynch Nightless GAME OVER!, before 492

[Paradoxombie]

WIFOM vote: IH "Scum won't hammer in this game" is a horrible idea to infer. If it spreads unchallenged the mafia will have a much easier time forcing mislynches by hammering. I'm going to be highly suspicious of any player that cast the hammer vote on a mislynch.

Think newbie game. Lynch -2 and Lynch -1 is not dangerous. It would cost way to much for scum to hammer.

Plus I don't understand how that is stupid, unless you try to defend someone with that argument.

err, what Khev said.

lets see if you are right.

unvote vote:discordian algorithm

There's also the possibility that you are scum, trying to loosen townie votes.

[Paradoxombie]

Town still has more lives than scum, and will even if I get lynched. DA's reckless play was disconcerting. I believe that given enough time and rope, scum will self-identify, and I'd rather see us have more time for arguments so that the scum can out themselves than end up with truly discordian actions throwing the dialogue for a complete loop.

Would you care for me to further elaborate? I'd welcome it. That was my whole point.

Might as well. Though, I think I understand.

[Paradoxombie]

Okay, this is stupid. The simple fact is, unless Kaosfere is scum, we're back to square one.

Vote:Kaosfere

[Paradoxombie]

Can the people voting Khelvaster please carefully lay out the reasons for their vote? I don't necessarily suspect them, but if he ends up being a mislynch we're back to nothing to scumhunt but a bandwagon with no reasoning.

[Paradoxombie]

IH, by unvoting Khel at L-1 you have pretty much cemented my thoughts that your early vote on him was just an attempt at distancing.

vote:IH

THIS PLACES IH AT LYNCH -1.

^^ Just so no one can

accidentally

hammer.

While I see the possibility that they are partners, I don't see why you'd choose to vote IH over Khelv. Khelv seems significantly more scummy to me.

[Paradoxombie]

Can the people voting Khelvaster please carefully lay out the reasons for their vote? I don't necessarily suspect them, but if he ends up being a mislynch we're back to nothing to scumhunt but a bandwagon with no reasoning.

Casting doubt on the Khelvaster wagon.

I just asked for people to lay out their reasons, I never suggested they didnt have any. I think youre really twisting my words here.

[Paradoxombie]

The DA lynch was too weird with her self-vote, and kaosfere was more justified.

On another note, I really am not liking the way Paradoxombie hammered Kaosfere and simply disappeared. He has now made 3 posts in this game. The first post was a post tentatively suggesting Discordian Algorithm to be scum (for self voting), the second one saying that he understood kaosfere's logic for hammering DA, and the third one being the hammer on Kaosfere. Something doesn't seem right here... (the hammer after understanding Kaosfere's logic for hammering DA part)

And his more recent posts being:

Can the people voting Khelvaster please carefully lay out the reasons for their vote? I don't necessarily suspect them, but if he ends up being a mislynch we're back to nothing to scumhunt but a bandwagon with no reasoning.

Casting doubt on the Khelvaster wagon.

While I see the possibility that they are partners, I don't see why you'd choose to vote IH over Khelv.

Khelv seems significantly more scummy to me.

WTF! Blatant contradiction?

Vote: paradoxombie

Vote: Streeflo

The way he twists my words and attacks me is very scum-like. I also don't like how he votes me so freely. I see votes in this game as being total approval for a lynch considering that you are essentially signing their death warrant if they're town. Is it possible he doesn't realize that this isn't a normal game? Or maybe that is simply his fallback excuse?

[Paradoxombie]

Deathsauce is quite hasty to slap a scum label on IH

[Paradoxombie]

okay I'm hesitant to vote Khelv since it seems like everyone on the wagon has the same reasons for voting and that makes learning from the lynch difficult. But I guess we have limited information already and it's not increasing at all particularly so screw it.

Since, apparently there's no claiming neccessary:

Vote: Khelvaster

[Paradoxombie]

unvote, Vote: Khelvaster

[Paradoxombie]

IH should be today's lynch.

What is the basis for that belief?

[Paradoxombie]

Wow that still doesn't explain why I thought I was hammering before that mistaken votecount. I guess somehow I remembered IH's vote but forgot he unvoted. Odd.

[Paradoxombie]

so why did you vote Kelv again? Have you given up on this game, or were you just frustrated with the pace (seriously...are you finding it too slow?)

My main reasons:

DA, that is WIFOM you are doing right now; it is being done for no other purpose than to confuse us. You came off scummy from the start.

I wouldn't consider anyone hammering DA to be scum atm

Bothered me, even though he claimed he was actually trying to bait scum. Perhaps he was baiting tonwies(succesfully)

IH seemed really happy to hop on the Kaos BW, and he voted right after I did. Linking himself to a town? Quite possibly.

Vote: IH

His enthusiasm for an IH lynch seemed ridiculously opportunistic.


I don't have a problem with the pace of the game, but I thought that both the DA and Kaosfere bandwagons were pretty pointless and empty and we really were back at square one with nothing to go on. I felt Khelvaster looked scummy enough for our first "real" lynch. I don't think it was premature at all. No claiming is needed, and Khelv had every chance to defend himself. I thought everyone was aware that a Khelv lynch was possible and imminent and could've spoken up if they wanted to; I didn't realize there were only two people on the wagon.

[Paradoxombie]

I still want to know why Gatorguy thinks IH should be lynched,

prod

?

[Paradoxombie]

Actually I just saw that he is away until saturday I think.

[Paradoxombie]

Groinhammer! Explain your suspcion of IH!

Vote: Groinhammer

[Paradoxombie]

EBWOP:

Paradox's weirdo vote on groinhammer doesn't help his cause. I think groinhammer has explained at least 3 times his suspicion of IH. Elevate paradox's suspicion level in the post above.

I hadn't noticed.

Unvote

[Paradoxombie]

When I put 1 vote on paradoxombie, he got extremely defensive and went on about the death warrant of one vote.

And yet you agreed that it was a death warrant.

[Paradoxombie]

Can the people voting Khelvaster please carefully lay out the reasons for their vote? I don't necessarily suspect them, but if he ends up being a mislynch we're back to nothing to scumhunt but a bandwagon with no reasoning.

While I see the possibility that they are partners, I don't see why you'd choose to vote IH over Khelv. Khelv seems significantly more scummy to me.

Did you, or did you not suspect Khelvaster? Your post 107 looks very ambiguous to me.

107 probably seems ambiguous because I wasn't trying to state anything. And why would anyone ever admit to NOT suspecting the player they voted? Sorry, pointless questions like that bother me.

[Paradoxombie]

107 probably seems ambiguous because

I wasn't trying to state anything.

And why would anyone ever admit to NOT suspecting the player they voted? Sorry, pointless questions like that bother me.

Then why did you bother posting?

To ask a question and thereby recieve an answer. Much as you did.

[Paradoxombie]

I'd like a longer day today as well, but for now a

minor fos: Deathsauce, IH

is all I have to say

[Paradoxombie]

No, it's because of how the interaction between you two has gone seems a little off to me, though I can't put my finger on it. It may not even have been significant enough to be worth mentioning.

[Paradoxombie]

Mod: could we get a prod on groinhammer if you haven't sent one already?

[Paradoxombie]

Vote: Groinhammer

a little motivation to post when he gets back

[Paradoxombie]

To be clear, Groinhammer, I did notice you were away AFTER I asked for the prod.

[Paradoxombie]

Streeflo could you restate your case against me?_

[Paradoxombie]

oh yeah,

unvote

Atm, I don't have the slightest idea who I'd want to lynch if the deadline were reimposed.

[Paradoxombie]

when did I contradict myself?

[Paradoxombie]

Maybe, but even if that was the case, you would've noticed that I said that I would be away from 17th-24th, whereas yr. post was dated as the 24th, so basically now it looks like you are lying.

I really don't keep track of every player who's away in every game I'm in if that's what you're suggesting. I think you're really leaping to conclusions to assume I'm lying. I just saw that you hadn't posted in a while and considering your vote is on me I saw it in my interests to make sure you were around. I fail to see what scum would have to gain from asking for a prod on you, anyway.

I'm quite happy with my vote at the moment with Paradox definately topping my scum list. Also, I couldn't help but notice that yr. vote on me was sometime before the deadline was imposed, yet you cite deadline retraction as yr. reason for not voting???? I'd like another explaination please.

I didn't say deadline retraction was the reason I'm not voting. I just voted you so you'd post some content when you got back. You did so, and I forgot to unvote afterwards.

[Paradoxombie]

I asked people to give reasoning when they voted Khelv in the first quote, and then when I voted Khelv I gave my reasoning(albeit a few posts later). I see no contradiction.

And why is it a contradiction that I think your reasoning on me isn't vote worthy? And like I said, in a quicklynch game like this we shouldn't be pressure voting, how is hammering any more significant than any other vote? Look at IH. He's been on all three wagons if I'm not mistaken. I fail to see how that's less significant than my own votes, just because mine were slightly later.(to be clear i don't think that makes IH particularly scummy at the moment, I'm just saying for arguments sake) I think the primary reason I was last on both wagons is because I took some time to consider alternate possibilities. It's not as though you, Streeflo had made a clearly better argument against someone else that I had ignored. In fact I fail to see how you are in any position to talk when you haven't done ANYTHING. For all we know you would've made the same votes I had if I hadn't. It's easy to sit back and criticize when you're so inert.

[Paradoxombie]

Oh and I just noticed you called the Kaos wagon justified. WTF, would have been on it if you were in the game at the time? You never told us your opinion on Khelv. Did you see the votes on him as justified?

[Paradoxombie]

Sorry for the triple post, but I've been looking over Streeflo's posts, and i gotta say I don't like what I see. He hasn't done anything all game but go after me for: 1. this BS contradiction I thought I cleared up a long time ago
and
2. for hammering two townies when (a.) he agreed that every vote is the rough equivalent of a hammer and there is another player with more votes on townies (b.) one of the wagons he called "justified" (c.) He has yet to actually condemn the other wagon or refute any of it's reasoning

He's even said that he thinks nothing will change his vote from me! With this lame argument?! WTF are you up to Streeflo?

Vote:Streeflo

[Paradoxombie]

Groinhammer, you said you only voted me to see if I'd slip up and claimed you thought I did. Does that mean the sole reason your vote is on me is my asking for a prod on you?

[Paradoxombie]

Groinhammer, you said you only voted me to see if I'd slip up and claimed you thought I did. Does that mean the sole reason your vote is on me is my asking for a prod on you?

No - I'd say it's more that you asking for the prod on me was allot more suspicious than innocent. I'm quite happy with where my vote is.

I still don't understand, it looks to me that your voting me because I asked for a prod on you, and you have yet to explain how that is a behavior that is more likely to come from scum than town.

[Paradoxombie]

(my parts in bold)

Can the people voting Khelvaster please carefully lay out the reasons for their vote? I don't necessarily suspect them, but if he ends up being a mislynch we're back to nothing to scumhunt but a bandwagon with no reasoning.

This implies that you don't think Khelv is scum, yet 4hrs later you say that Khelv tops yr. scumlist compared to IH. This struck me as odd to say the least, especially seeing as IH has come across as scum so strongly (see my previous posts). Incidentally, this is the same thing that Streeflo picked up on.

This isn't true on two accounts. 1. I don't even remember the full case about IH is, but he's never seemed as blatantly scummy to me as you claim he was. Also, this isn't proof of scumminess unless IH is confirmed scum. 2. Asking people for reasons does not automatically mean you disagree with an opinion. People often ask for reasons because the logic behind votes are the only way you can tell whether someone might be mindlessly bandwagoning. Sometimes you get lucky and catch scum making flawed, contrived arguments.

You then vote Streeflo in #125 - OMGUS as far as I can see.

I voted him because I thought he voted awfully freely and quickly for a replacement in a quicklynch game. When I asked him whether he was truly sure of his of his vote, he re-affirmed it.

You then randomly vote-switch with no explanation as to why you no longer want to vote Streeflo anymore

It had been six days, and nothing significant had happened. I said in advance that I suspected Khelv, so I don't see why you'd call it "random"

& decide to hammer Khelv for, as far as I can see extremely weak reasons, especially when compared to the Kaos hammer.

I don't know what point you're trying to make.

Now this was a little controversial b/c there was a miscount on the votes by Ryan, but I then you did explicitly state that you thought you were hammering (#165) so still a hammer I think you'll have to agree.

I've already stated that I don't consider a hammer different than any other votes in this game, since scum can quicklynch so easily. We shouldn't be throwing around pressure votes(althought I have done it accidentally[without thinking] a few times I now notice).

I know that you gave reasoning after the hammer, but that's the problem - it was

after

the hammer (hindsight again..) which kinda negates that for me I'm afraid.

Fair enough, I've already begun to suspect you for bringing all this up so long after your vote, even longer after these things happened, and only after I asked twice.

& then we have the very strange #199 where you ask me to explain my suspicion of IH (this made me look at yr. history a great deal more). You then quickly retract this when questioned - just weird man.

Now you're really acting dense. I voted you and asked you to explain your vote on IH. Deathsauce pointed out that you already had, at which I unvoted. It's not weird, and even if it was, that doesn't equate to scumminess. I'm interested to know how many games you're in groinhammer, because I'm in five, and I really don't have the time to keep track of every argument every single player has given, and when and for exactly how long every player is away

Then I had the problem that I was going on holiday, so decided to post #208 the way I did. As I saw things, a town player would actually complain a/b this (at least a little - didn't you find it even slightly weird that I worded things that way???); however you completely ignored it which I saw as a kinda reverso-OMGUS.

I don't know what you mean, but idr why I didn't call you on voting me without reasons at the time. But I don't necessarily believe that you had all these opinions the whole time, mainly because you still didn't bother to explicate your opinion, even after you came back and I demanded content.

left things for a while & then asked for the prod & subsequent vote on me when you knew (yeah, not believing you missing that, probably to do with the fact

Vote: Groinhammer a little motivation to post when he gets back

...so basically you knew that I'd gone away) & no, it wasn't

just

to do with the prod, as I said that was more suspicious than not. It was to do with the vote dude.

"It was to do with the vote dude"? Thank you for clarifying. But I already explained I saw you were away after I asked for the prod. 2 days later when you still hadn't posted, I looked to see if you had maybe abandoned your account and saw the notice in your sig. If you really don't want to believe me, then I obviously won't convince you, but it's seriously idiotic to make assumptions like that.

Maybe seeing I've taken the time (on yr. request) to explain my vote for you in greater detail you could do the same for yr. vote on Streeflo?

I think I clearly explained the entirety of my case on streeflo when I voted him. A benefit you did not feel the need to give me

Also, if you feel that I shouldn't be voting for you maybe you could tell me why on that front as well...

That makes sense.

Overall, I'm glad that you have more reasoning than that I asked for a prod and voted you a couple times.

[Paradoxombie]

The lack of people voting for Streeflo is depressing

Could you clarify on exactly what your grievances with Streeflo are?

[Paradoxombie]

The lack of people voting for Streeflo is depressing

Could you clarify on exactly what your grievances with Streeflo are?

I'm not particularly inclined to at the moment, but I would imagine you have a clue since you're voting for Streeflo

FoS: Paradox

If I already knew any of your reasons to suspect Streeflo, I would have mentioned it in my case against him, and therefore you shouldn't have any problem laying them out since they're not a secret. If they are a secret and you don't want to tell them because you think that'd help Streeflo, then I definitely do not know them. So you imagine wrong, I imagine.

Not explaining yourself isn't very protown. But I'd be most interested to hear you try to argue how it is, and how asking people to explain themselves is antitown.

[Paradoxombie]

The lack of people voting for Streeflo is depressing

Could you clarify on exactly what your grievances with Streeflo are?

I'm not particularly inclined to at the moment, but I would imagine you have a clue since you're voting for Streeflo

FoS: Paradox

Not explaining yourself isn't very protown. But I'd be most interested to hear you try to argue how it is, and how asking people to explain themselves is antitown.

Stop twisting my words. You know damn well what I mean.

I don't know what you mean, I just know what you wrote, and according to you, you won't clarify on your hazy,imo, suspicion despite a direct request. I think that's pretty undeniably anti-town/scummy.

[Paradoxombie]

Yeah, any new opinions would be appreciated.

[Paradoxombie]

timmers, could you be specific about what I've said that you don't "buy"?

Mod, could we get a prod on Estes?

[Paradoxombie]

Paradoxombie - The thing that most concerns me is that you dropped the hammer on the past two lynches.

And just like streeflo you attack me for lynching two townies when you said one was "expected" and don't have any criticism for the other. How does the fact that they were fairly quick make a difference if you thought they should have happened? I understand suspecting me, but it seems like you're putting alot of weight on it. At least admit that it's not the most solid case.

[Paradoxombie]

Aren't you being abit reactionary there xombie? People get lynched in games for a whole load less than 1 hammer, but 2! Do you really think that's

that

weak a reason for voting?

I suppose I am a bit biased, atm.

[Paradoxombie]

But I'd hope that the day could go on alot longer so I could explore some suspects. Does the speed at which I'm gaining bandwagon votes indicate scum presence?

[Paradoxombie]

Any new input, Estes?

[Paradoxombie]

wtf, has Sir Tornado not posted in like 2 weeks?

Prod

[Paradoxombie]

I wouldn't say your bandwagon was quick xombie, except possibly timmy's vote.

Well I'd agree, but I'm also counting how quickly and absent-minded the votes appear to me. Streeflo, you've been voting me since your second post, and haven't given much content or done much scumhunting since. Timmers looks like he was just waiting for the first thing to vote me over.

Does xombie look scummy to anyone else? He had no problem dropping the hammer on Day 2 relatively quickly, but before we lynch him he wants time to hunt for scum??? He certainly didn't give kaosfere time to hunt for scum.

You think we should have let Kaosfere live?

[Paradoxombie]

whats the point in hoping the day will go on longer so you can "explore some subjects" if your the one who looks like the main suspect? .

I really don't know what you mean, but the longer the day goes on, the better the chance that someone simply slips up. What we actually do doesn't matter so much as long as we're discussing something. I'm pretty satisfied with the pressent pace.

Shouldn't you be defending yourself instead?

Kinda hard since you really didn't give any reasons for voting me.

People have been saying your scum for a while now, and whilst my opinion of some people varied, I never got that impression with you... I think Groinhammers post 288 is quite a good one and goes a long way confirming my suspicions against you.

I don't understand this sentence, could you rephrase it?

JDodge is next on my list, has he made any real contribution to the game, no he hasn't he sits there quietly and you all accept it. It might be his style but its not one that sits well with me... I want to see him post something real good, real soon....

While I don't actually suspect him for it, atm, I agree with the rest of what you said.

In response to Groinhammer, I think timmers asked for a replacement due to his illness, personally IH has made some posts which don't look good and I personally wouldn't of played the way he has. However he did make some good posts and I agree with his stance on kaos and I dont think he should have been eaten for that and the events that preceeded it, as I think that was mainly Adel's silliness to prove a stupid point and kaos's stupidness.

Gah! Why do I deserve to be suspected for voting Kaos and Khev while IH doesn't?

[Paradoxombie]

Well it's not very helpful for you to use someone else's post as your main argument, because no one will be able to tell who to suspect from my wagon. At least quote exactly what points of his you agree with.

[Paradoxombie]

So you think my asking for a prod on groinhammer is scummy, Porochaz?

[Paradoxombie]

Urrgghhh - ok, putting my vote back on xombie

(this puts xombie at -1)

. Xombie asked for more discussion time (which you've now had I figure), but nothing much has changed from my perspective so

vote: Paradoxombie

.

weren't you going to wait for SirTornado before?

[Paradoxombie]

Jdodge, you haven't posted in a while. Thoughts?

Streeflo, you've been posting consistently, but have given very little content. Thoughts?

[Paradoxombie]

your question to him is what makes Streeflo scum

I still think you are scum, and am flattered to hear you say that I am posting consistently (because I'm not).

So neither of you have noticed anything new worth mentioning, about any other players?