Mini 518: Underground Mafia, The Nightmare is Over!

[curiouskarmadog]

[Insert exaggerated and outstandingly hilarious confirmatory message that inspires trust and understanding with the other players here] +1

[curiouskarmadog]

to prove your point.

vote jitsu

[curiouskarmadog]

yeah, I am not too worried about this wagon, it happens.

Jitsu is right, there is not much to analze at the moment, but I like the fact he is trying, seems like he is attempting to scum hunt and he is throwing theories out there..

unvote jitsu

nothing like a couple bandwagons to get us out of the random stage

[curiouskarmadog]

Christ, you guys posted some lengthy posts over the weekend. ok, notes on game..

please, no massclaiming. I don’t agree with any type of massclaim…we don’t know the set up or the amount of power roles we have. At this point, I think it would only benefit scum.

Getting town vibes off Korlash, I don’t think he is over reacting, however, if he was, can anyone explain to me why over reacting is a scum tell?

I like bandwagon(BW), it provide information…lots of information. When I add a “pressure” vote, it is not always pressure on the person I am voting (if you need more theory I can provide..but don’t want to waste time explaining theory in a non-newbie game).

Korlash, maybe I missed it in your posts. Explain this statement.

Well if people would stop trying to use false information against me...

Something else I wanted to comment on..I liked Korlash’s post 61. I think he has a point here.

For starters take what just happened. You talked, and I answered. We just committed active discussion! We have each gained info on the other, without a vote needed. Now take Miztef's vote. I pretty much said nothing in response to it. Because he did not give me any specific reasons that I could explain/counter. So we, the town, have gained nothing out of it and the maifa have gained a player with a slightly higher bandwagon. (This is not about me here. This is for later on, anyone can attack the people on me saying there was no reason for a vote/wagon and use it against them. So in theory, 5 townies can be in danger of having scum opportunities their deaths/reason to be lynched.)

If I was miztef’s, I would want to back up my vote a bit. But he comes back with post 62 and 63(provided)

ah, maybe I should have read more carefully, I didn't really see all the stuff about flaming and researching other games.

Still... after all that, the conclusion being a simple "we should talk or vote" seems almost pointless.

I'm honestly shocked no one has voted for me yet. I would think a vote on me would make sense after that post from you korlash.

I do find jitsu's tatics very good and clean, and as we go forward, will become more useful. I hope his clarification works well when there is loads of information.

Right now, I think I'm gonna lay off pushing any wagons very hard, we need a bit more activity from other players

.

I bolded the statements that REALLY sticks out to me. Instead of defending his vote or asking questions or scum hunting, he is just going to back off pushing wagons. If this was true, why not unvote? Now you are passively pushing a wagon. Miztef, why are you surprised no one has voted you after Korlash’s post? There was only 30 minutes that passed between his post and yours? In a game that could take months, this surprises you? What motivated you to say that? Also, why are you voting Korlash?

Vote Miztef

not liking his play (or lack thereof) or posts right now.

[curiouskarmadog]

Crap, hmmmm. order of who posted first?

peanut butter, please

[curiouskarmadog]

lol, I love magic, I can't believe I missed a comment refering to it. Haven't been following it lately though.

oh, and yes, I'm an extremely impatient player. Not to get the day finished per say, I just like to keep things moving at a fast pace. This game is getting a bit fast though, so I think I'll try to slow down a bit.

I've noticed that in games where I'm mafia, people tend not to suspect me for a good while, cause I tend to play more cautious. When I'm town, people tend to jump at me right away, since I play however I feel like ><.

wow, what a post.

if you like to keep things at a fast pace, why do you want to slow it down a bit? SO when you are mafia, you are more cautious? Cautious, like trying to slow the game down a bit?

[curiouskarmadog]

I wasn't shocked that no one voted me at that specific time, just that there were no votes on me at all, random or otherwise. Usually my gameplay is seen is heavily scummy right from the get go, so it's just a different feeling for me.

also this doesnt seem to make since..you said

"I'm honestly shocked no one has voted for me yet. I would think a vote on me would make sense after that post from you korlash. "

You didnt say "yet" you said after korlash's post..only 30 minutes had passed..please explain.

[curiouskarmadog]

edit: you said "yet", but that was in reference to Korlash's post..meaning, "I am surprised that no one has yet voting me after Korlash's post"..

at least that is how I read those two sentences...maybe I am wrong.

[curiouskarmadog]

Ugh, sorry for the typos and such above. I started writing my response very late last night and I didn't catch them before I posted today.

no sweat, as you can tell I am king of typos..I hate to proofread my own posts.

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm not sure what your asking of me karma dog...

Yes, I was surprised that no one had voted me yet, only because I am used to being voted for on page 2-3 in most games. This game was an oddity for me. I was also referring to korlash not voting me, in addition. I hope that makes sense.

think you might ahve skipped over this post..

wow, what a post.

if you like to keep things at a fast pace, why do you want to slow it down a bit? SO when you are mafia, you are more cautious? Cautious, like trying to slow the game down a bit?


this is really what I want to know.

[curiouskarmadog]

the above post is referencing my post 91

[curiouskarmadog]

Sudo_Nym's last post was Monday night. I also am interested in what he has to say.

I am also interested in CKD and anata's thoughts on the recent turn of events.

And as for Jayalay and GunslingerKB, I would welcome a prod on them if we don't hear from them in a day or two.

is there an event in particular you want my thoughts on, still reading these meaty posts

[curiouskarmadog]

alright, my turnabout from 58 - 63...

My thought pattern is basically that I went a little too hard on korlash, and was telling everyone that I'm gonna slow down on my actual evidence/case building until I actually get more substantial material. I suppose it could be seen as me trying to correct a mistake.

so are you being cautious?

[curiouskarmadog]

@karmadog: lol, trying to use my "supposedly" circular logic against me? It's not being more cautious, it's correcting a mistake (somewhat).

did I call is circular logic? I was just wondering, you told us when you are scum, you play cautious, I thought you were trying to tell us something..

why bother correcting a mistake?

[curiouskarmadog]

edit
is=it

[curiouskarmadog]

curiouskarmadog - Has posted a fairly reasonable amount regarding the contradictions in Miztef's posts. Good, fairly accurate reading, little to criticize. Only real possible criticism is the tunnel vision on Miztef, who is the easy target right now. I guess I'd just like to hear more (this is sounding like a mantra).

why is he an easy target? maybe it is because he is playing scummy?..shouldnt we pressure those we feel are scummy?

[curiouskarmadog]

I am currently comfortable when my energies are going toward this game..that being said, later on in this Day, I will post a top three scum list, 7 pages in, it would just be a waste, for my opinion will probably change as we get closer to a deadline.

[curiouskarmadog]

I am currently comfortable when my energies are going toward this game..that being said, later on in this Day, I will post a top three scum list, 7 pages in, it would just be a waste, for my opinion will probably change as we get closer to a deadline.

But it gives us something else to talk about. Your opinion is allowed to change and part of that comes from discussion. Feel free to post your list.

I will do it, maybe in a page or two...but I feel if I post anything now, it will only distract from who i feel is the scummiest and needs more pressure.

[curiouskarmadog]

Ugh, ok power roles sometimes do hang low because the fear of coming across scummy for some reason and having to claim or getting vigged or Nked at night. But who cares, mafia and disinterested vanillas can do the same thing, why are we talking about it?

Why is Jitsu trying to direct the cops investigation?

Vote: Jitsu

I felt earlier on that he may have been trying to act like he was analyzing everything to sort out the scum. But I have a vibe telling me that he is acting. Im not 100% sure of this, but he is one of the few people that haven't been considered the slightest bit scummy, and I kinda feel he has.I figure at this point, a random lynch on someone that seems scummy would be a good idea. I dont think voting sudo_nym out at this point would really hurt anything either. (Note: My vote for jitsu isnt really trying to campaign to get him out. I just wanted to state my concern. If nothing else shows up against him, I will probably unvote. )

welcome to my scum list. If Jitsu, is "one of the few people that hasnt been considered the slightest bit scummy" (which isnt true, but using your words) then why are you voting for him if you think random lynching a scummy player is a good idea? "my vote isnt a campaign"?? What? Do you think Jitsu is scummy or not? This feels like someone looking for a wagon to start, but doesnt want to take responsibility if it does.

I think Jitsu sees what I mean, but other than that, what I feel is hard to put down. What seems like acting from him may be him really analyzing things. And yea. I probably shouldnt have voted anyway.

Unvote: Jitsu

now that I have thourougjly read a few more posts, I think sudo_nym is really the way we should go first day. He seems a little wonky.

Vote: Sudo

And that post by me was really stupidly dumb. I just went back and read it and pretty much laughed at my own stupidity. It was too early for me... *yawn*

No one buys his post or his vote, so he comes back with this…Don’t know if this was a bad newbie town or a bad newbie scum move.

Oh it gets worse.

Oh...yea sorry....

Scummyness List: (Excluding Me of course)
1.Sudo
2. Anata
3. Mitzef
4. Korlash
5.Jerubaal
6.oEJo
7.CKD
8. Jitsu
9.Abstract
10.Jayalay
11.Mexal

he has gone from wanting to lynch Jitsu to having him 8th on the scum list? Please explain.

Bored with the conversation about what odd roles Sudo could be, I think it was odd he brought up the mass claim, but really I think he is scum or town…I don’t think he is going to have any strange role (at this point). This conversation sounds more like theory, than actual scum hunting.

[curiouskarmadog]

I realize you are new (or at least new to the site)...sort of felt like you were trying to deflect

[curiouskarmadog]

karmadog - I wish I had substantial evidence for this one, but it's more of a scum-vibe then anything. It's hypocritical of me to say, but his attack on gunslinger is opportunistic seeming, and almost too hard (as if he's SURE gunslinger is mafia). Maybe I just don't like this playstyle, but IGMEOY.

LOL, yeah I bet you wish you had evidence. NOW I make his scum list...this is straight OMGUS. Please state where I said I was "sure gunslinger is mafia"? If I was sure I would be voting him, but who am I actually voting?....ahhhh...why is it ok for you to say gunslinger is scummy, but not me?

[curiouskarmadog]

^^^

so then was this post for you or us then?...because clearly you dont care if we have this knowledge or not.

[curiouskarmadog]

This is... blah. I am basically getting a town read from everyone. Well done, scum.

umm, what?

[curiouskarmadog]

and lengthy one's at that...need to read that last page or so.

[curiouskarmadog]

speaking of gunslinger...

once the pressure piled on, he disappeared...

[curiouskarmadog]

speaking of gunslinger...

once the pressure piled on, he disappeared...

I noticed that as well. But then again, so did Anata.

I dont have a problem with Anata much at this point.

[curiouskarmadog]

meaning that I think my vote is currently on the scummiest person in this game..

which one (of jitsu's post)?

[curiouskarmadog]

meaning that I think my vote is currently on the scummiest person in this game..

which one (of jitsu's post)?

Uh, saying you don't have a problem with someone and saying that they're not the scummiest are two VERY different things. If you don't have a problem then you don't think they're scummy. If you think they're scummy but not the scummiest, that's a different thing altogether.

As for his post, the one where he rips apart Anata's post and Jeru and I followed up with votes. What other post would I be talking about in regards to Anata?

Clearly, if Anata is guilty of anything it is being lazy...On a different note, I find it interesting that she got 3 votes back to back so quickly when this game has two quite scummy players just floating around. Please explain to me, how being lazy is scummy. Granted it is not very pro-town, but scummy? How is Anata’s laziness any different from Oejo or Gunslinger? I think Jitsu made some good points, but I think that a lot of this case revolves around game theory versus actual scum actions and assumptions. I can agree with some of Jitsu’s points without being compelled to place a 4th vote on Anata. I think she has adequate amount of pressure on her at the moment (as jitsu said about Gunslinger and Mitzef). Does this mean I wont change my mind about her later and vote her? No, I just want to keep my vote on who I actual think is scum.

I dont think Anata is scummy at this point (dont have a problem with her). Her actions (or lack thereof) have been noted.

I think Anata is correct being suspicious of 3 votes back to back. Not so much of Jitsu, but Mex and Jub..there posts were of the “I agree” flavor. Do I find that scummy? Not alone, but I think it is note worthy. It is called developing a voting record. Seems to me that I would be asking some follow up questions with my vote, if they truly were wanting to do some scum hunting…or if they were just for pressure purposes I would say that (like Jitsu did).

[curiouskarmadog]

jitsu's post didnt just revolve around Anata. he shed light on other's he thought were scummy and he discussed some game theory. Votes are not meaningless, they imply that you think someone is scummy, you want to add pressure, you are trying to get other's reactions, etc etc...are you saying that your vote on Anata is meaningless? Why are you not wondering where Gunslinger has gone?

I would like to hear your case against her in your words.

[curiouskarmadog]

jitsu's post didnt just revolve around Anata. he shed light on other's he thought were scummy and he discussed some game theory. Votes are not meaningless, they imply that you think someone is scummy, you want to add pressure, you are trying to get other's reactions, etc etc...are you saying that your vote on Anata is meaningless? Why are you not wondering where Gunslinger has gone?

I would like to hear your case against her in your words.

You're sidestepping my questions. I asked you some very pointed questions and you are ignoring them, focusing on the irrelevant.

Votes aren't meaningless but focusing on the first three votes when the other 4 aren't on the person is pointless. You're not going to gain anything from it until the person is lynched or close to a lynch. So while questioning the speed is ok, trying to shed suspicions on the votes really is immaterial. The fact of the matter is, she's not lynched yet, nor is she even close so again, you're focusing on the wrong thing.

As for my case on her, it's Jitsu's. I've said that multiple times. I don't want to have to go through his post again just so I can rehash the same exact points he made. It's pointless. I can do it but it serves zero purpose when I'm telling you that's what I'd do.

LOL, I am side stepping questions? You are avoiding them.

Dont tell me what is irrelevant and what is not.

What is your case against Anata? If you cant form your own case to back your vote, what is Jitsu's case that you are backing? Also, why are you ignoring Gunslinger (second time I have asked)... I will quote Jitsu's posts that I agree with, if you really need it. But I have already told you what I agree with...I agree with the other's he finds scummy and some of his game theory (not assumptions). What other questions have I "side stepped"?

[curiouskarmadog]

LOL, I am side stepping questions? You are avoiding them.

Dont tell me what is irrelevant and what is not.

What is your case against Anata? If you cant form your own case to back your vote, what is Jitsu's case that you are backing? Also, why are you ignoring Gunslinger (second time I have asked)... I will quote Jitsu's posts that I agree with, if you really need it. But I have already told you what I agree with...I agree with the other's he finds scummy and some of his game theory (not assumptions). What other questions have I "side stepped"?

Yes.

I asked you what do you agree with, what you don't. I asked you why you think Anata is lazy. I asked you if you found it strange that she's casting suspicion on the votes while ignoring the main points of Jitsu's post. I asked you if you found it suspicious that she avoided all the points of his post. None of these questions you've answered.

As for my case, once again, WHY DO I HAVE TO REPEAT what another says? I can go through her post and do the exact same thing Jitsu did, but why should I have to when I already claimed I agree with his post? Why do you want me to be a parrot? What difference does it make? If you want to criticize my case, criticize Jitsu's. If you don't want to criticize his, then why make me repeat it all over again just so you can call Anata lazy?

As for Gunslinger, I haven't ignored him. You mentioned above he disappeared when he got heat and I agreed. I also mentioned that I would lynch him. What else do you want me to say? When he posted, I questioned him. He's made 6 posts in the game and the points have been covered extensively by others. Why do you need me to rehash those too?

you want me to quote parts that I agree with, but you are not willing to post a case to back up your vote?..."do you want me to be a parrot?" I want to hear your case…YOUR CASE, yeah, be a parrot,…but put it in your words. What points did Anata not address to your satisfaction? Have you asked any follow up questions?

I will even make it easy for you, I am not even asking you to “add anything”…just give me 3 bullet points of your case against Anata that warranted your vote. Quit riding Jitsu’s back.

You do this, and I will post what I agree and disagree with(but again, I have already stated what I agreed with, but if you need the actual quotes I will post).

There is a point to this, so just make your case.

[curiouskarmadog]

You seemed to completely misinterpret how the mass claim started here. Given how important of an event that was in the game, not taking the time to go back and see how it started is at least a little suspicious. Nobody else seemed to have a problem seeing what happened, so I don't think it was that subtle of a detail. And when you were called on it in post 154 by Mexal, your reply was basically "I suppose" and then you express that he may have been probing for scum. I'm sorry, but how does making an anti-town post like that root out scum? Giving support for a mass claim on Day 1 is potential suicide for any player. Nothing is definite, and even scum would be likely to denounce it or just keep quiet. Given all the lurking that was going on at the time, I would say that it was a pointless exercise at best. And when Mexal voted Sudo for making the stupid massclaim, Mexal retaliated by OMGUSing Mexal for it. How is that decent scum hunting? Sudo may or may not be scum, but IMO, he hasn't been a scum hunter in this game.

Agree somewhat, I don’t think that Anata was misrepresenting the “mass claim idea” here as much has he simply wasn’t really reading the thread(or maybe not understanding it). The only people who would actually think this was how events occurred would be other people that weren’t really reading the thread. I think Anata is just being lazy (as Jitsu mentions later).

Later in this quote Jitsu mentions game theory, but I agree with his thoughts. “but how does making an anti-town post like that root out scum?” I have seen it done several times someone (usually a power role, who has bread crumbed) suggests something that could be considered anti-town, to see who jumps on the bait. If no one agrees with him and he is close to a lynch, he can point to his bread crumb and say “hey, I was looking for scum”. However, I do not think that Sudo was doing this. I don’t understand why Sudo mentioned it. Another theory is that he mentions it (mass claim) to set up a distancing argument for his scum buddies. In the post, he also suggests the disadvantages of a mass claim (keeping him out of hot water) and sets up a counter argument for his scum buddies. Anyone remember who was the loudest to say it was a bad idea? Just something that is note worthy. The reason I haven’t attacked (or even really question) Sudo about this was because on the off chance he is a power role looking for scum…I have noted it, for it might be important later. The only other thing I noted, was that Sudo’s suggestion (prior to the mass claim post) had the feel of someone, setting up anyone to prod. Sudo says he has an idea (be it a stupid one), Jitsu was curious and asked what it was, Sudo answer with his mass claim idea. Why did Sudo need to be prodded to provide this idea, why not just come out with it? Sort of feels like Sudo can always fall back on “well, I didn’t want to say it, but Jitsu asked for it”…..at any rate, all of the above are theories and assumptions…I have noted, and might have to reference later.

You're not sure why he voted for Sudo? Are you serious? The exchange that sprung up from this lasted several

pages

. Even if you missed the reason on the post where he actually placed his vote, the reason is repeated several times over on the next few pages. When Mexal called you on this (#154), your response was "perhaps I missed something" (#162). You never answered his question.

Anata obviously isn’t reading the thread…or at least just skimming, this equals lazy.

When I read your post, I was sure you were trying to frame me. Now I'm a bit less sure, but I still think that's a possibility.

Ugh, Don’t agree with this statement….all assumptions. I think Jitsu is giving Anata too much credit.

As for the rest of your analysis, I think it's total crap. Most of the stuff you mention is totally pointless and too much of it was a rehash of the random voting stage where nothing much was going on.

I can see why Jitsu is saying this.

But more telling is all the stuff that was missing. You talk about the massclaim, but only to get it wrong about how it started and question the extremely obvious reasons for Mexal and Jerubbaal's votes on Mexal. There is not an ounce of commentary on the aggressive posts, disagreements, and the noticable swing of several players to Mexal's side of the argument. At that point in the game, that exchange provided enormously valuable information and after it was all over, likely formed some of the basis for some the reads people currently on each other.

Again, Anata is just being lazy..and skimming

While I don't expect anyone to cover every aspect of the game in a summary like this, and not every analysis can be completely comprehensive, you talked about a lot of things that had little impact on the game, and did not comment on just about everything that has had a big impact on the game.

This is a subjective argument. Who is to say what has little or big impacts on the game? I think what Jitsu’s biggest problem is Anata’s disinterest in this game. Again, half assed posts.

One could simply say that you're a townie that has done a really, really sloppy job on reading and keeping up, and that you're lazy. Perhaps you were just looking for posts where people voted and reported some information about it. I admit that is a possibility.

I agree with Jitsu here. On another note, this is why I don’t think Mexal is reading this game either. He asked me why I thought Anata was lazy (even inquired where I got that idea), but agreed entirely with Jitsu’s post even voted. If you actually read Jitsu’s post, you would know where and why I thought people basically just think Anata is lazy.

But given that you seemed to know who was involved in the massclaim and you comment on votes that took place during it without mentioning any of the really telling events that happened, I have to think you read at least some of those posts. And if you did that, why didn't you go back and reread more carefully, as it should have been pretty obvious something was going on since votes were actually being placed then (unlike a lot of this game so far). I think it is possible that you intentionally distorted your analysis.

Again, can be explained by anata’s laziness. Jitsu, what motivation would Anata have here to distort anything? Is she pushing a case that I missed? Later you mention she might be trying to help Sudo…so does that mean they are scum together? Almost seems like you might think Anata is scum, because you think Sudo is scum.

Also, I get the impression that you may have been trying to help out Sudo by deflecting suspicion from him. You didn't seem to understand the reason for any of the votes on him, yet you seemed to notice the votes themselves. When people were talking about their suspicions on him, you replied that it was possible that he could be scum hunting. When you thought I prodded him for the mass claim, it was suspicious enough to move me up to the top two on your most scummy list with Miztef (post 153), but Sudo_Nym, who actually said it, was probably scum hunting? I'm speechless.

This is a good point. Jitsu, did she actually place you on his top two scum list? If so, I am missing that post. If she did, that might be scummy, for you really didn’t prod Sudo for the mass claim idea. Sudo said he had an idea, Jitsu asked what he had in mind. There was no way that Jitsu knew Sudo was talking about a mass claim when he asked. However, if there is a post that I am missing that Anata says Jitsu is on her top two scum list, please post.

You may be just a lazy townie, but at this point, I think it is more probable that you are scum, lazy or otherwise.

I also find Miztef and Gunslinger scummy at this point,

Very much agree

but I think the others are adequately pressuring them already.

Very much disagree...other than myself, who has pressure Gunslinger or Mitzef? Im I adequately pressuring them alone? IF so, why does it take three to attack Anata?


All that being said (quoted) I think Anata is a newbie/lazy/trying to look town. I don’t think that being lazy=scummy. I think being lazy =useless and not very helpful. Trying to look town is different. This is a scum move to be sure, but it could also mean other things….all of it are assumptions. It is note worthy, but not enough for me to vote.

I also think Mexal vote is interesting. He added little. We know he can post large content filled post, but only provides a “I agree” post. Where are the follow up question? Jitsu, was applying pressure, if you were doing that too, don’t you have some questions for Anata to answer? I asked him to provide a small bullet point case, but he just quotes a huge block of Jitsu’s post. He cant even do that. Jitsu, I feel might be scum hunting, what are you doing? Even Jer, added something. I get the feeling that he also thinks that Anata is scum, because he thinks Sudo is. However, Mexal I am not sure. He agrees with Jitsu's post, but doesnt understand why I thought Anata was being lazy...this doesnt make since, please explain Mexal...and again, can I just have your case in three bullet points, I read Jitsu case..I want your case (even if it is Jitsu's case) in your words..why is that so hard?

For those currently voting Anata, my question is, why go after Anata if you think Sudo is scum?…What if Sudo comes up town? How does that effect your thoughts on Anata? I bet it does to some degree.

What if Anata comes up town, how does that effect your thoughts on Sudo? I have a feeling it really doesn’t.

Seems to me like Sudo is the one you really want to be voting, if Sudo comes up scum, this is looks quite bad for Anata.

This all being said, I think Mitzef is the lynch today. He is scummy all by himself (as is Gunslinger)…I would also not be against pressuring (even lynching) Sudo more as it could provide much info.

I think Gunslinger and oejo need to post more.

Is this enough Mexal?

[curiouskarmadog]

Because some people are still keen on lynching me, can I get all the points against me so I can defend myself? I believe I tried to defend myself before, but I'm a little confused as to what makes me so especially scummy.

I find it kind of ridiculous that karmadog posted a whole bunch of stuff regarding anata and some others, yet hasn't talked about the case against me lately, whom he seems to be keen on lynching. My impression is basically that karmadog is either mafia going after the easy lynches, or just has a grudge against me for voting him earlier.

His spreading of suspicion (me, gunslinger, mexal, sudo, anata?) is quite large, and gives me the impression that he is trying to make sure he can slip between votes and look more innocent no matter who is lynched.

If he is scum, His semi-protection of anata makes me believe she is also more likely scum.

Don't care how OMGUS this seems, I feel karmadog is most scummy at this time, and am going to

vote: Curiouskarmadog

LOL, see what I mean?

Miz was there a case in here somewhere?.Now, am I scum because I have suspicions on several people, or am I scum, because I thought Anata is lazy and not the lynch of today? ANd yes, this is very OMGUS...sad sad sad...why dont you put a case with that vote...you want my case again, you got it.

Now wont a Miz lynch tell you something too?

Mex, I have a reply coming, but lack the time at the moment..

[curiouskarmadog]

I need to carefully reread the last few posts before I comment further, but I want to cite my statement I made earlier.

As for where Anata put me in her top two, she never explicitly said ther her top X suspects were person 1, person 2, ...., but at the very end of post 153, she says:

After this horribly long post, I still cannot say for sure who I think is scummy or not. However, I’m still keeping an eye of Miztef,

and now on jitsu as well, based on my analysis

.

[bolding mine, for emphasis]

Gien how little else she's posted, and seeing how Miztef and I are the only people she's mentioned she was suspicious of after the random voting stage, this seems to put Miztef and I in her top two list of suspicious characters by default. At the very, very least, she has singled out Miztef and me above all others. And here she does cite her "analysis" (that is, post 153) as her reason for this.

OK , I can see how you might think that...

any comments on the rest of my post? Mexal's? Miz's?

[curiouskarmadog]

I too have a fairly large post coming...getting behind on several games...but dont have time currently for more than a line or two.

[curiouskarmadog]

Wow, now Mitzef is also opportunistic

"Anata - Scummy. Shocking isn't it? Even if I didn't think she was scummy, the way the town is going, it's basically me or her, so I have to be against her. "

Wow, guess he is trying to cover his ass Day 2, after a mislynch...."Well, I had to vote to lynch her, or you would have hung me." Ask yourself, why did he post that comment?

here are some other arguements I bet we will hear Day 2 from MItzef.."Wow Anata was town, well, CKD must of known she was town that is why he defended her to look town"

or

"See Anata WAS scum, so CKD must have been defending her because they are buddies.."

It is lose/lose for me...

Mex, you want information? I am actively pushing for a Mitzef lynch....if he IS town, wont that make me look mighty suspicious? This guy is all types of scum.


also note that he voted for me because I was "spreading suspicion," didnt the hypocrite just do the exact same thing with his last post?

at any rate, I will have time tomorrow to post, and this game is the first on my agenda....I think people need to seriously look at Mitzef.

[curiouskarmadog]

Reply time. Mexal first.

It's possible that everything she had done was laziness. I highly doubt it though. Why make a post if you're not even going to address anything that we're discussing? Why be lazy and then come back and say you were trying to document everything that was going on? Seriously, it makes no sense for her to be lazy and make a post like that. Why is she allowed to be lazy but Gunslinger isn't? Why aren't I allowed to be lazy when rehashing Jitsu's post? Why is it Anata is the only one allowed to be lazy? You're protecting her and you're pushing off everything she has done as laziness...nothing as intentional. I don't know if you've played with her before, but without knowing her, I don't see how you can even think that. The reason I didn't mention it as apart of Jitsu's post is because I dont' think he believed it. He is new and he doesn't have the conviction in his cases more experienced players do. He was making excuses for her just in case he was wrong because he's not 100% sure. But I don't think he truly believes she's just lazy...I know I don't.

Seems like you are not reading all of my posts. You asked for my opinion, I gave it. I said I would rather wait, you probed. I tell you my opinion, you say that I am actively protecting her. How is that fair, when I wanted to keep my opinions about the argument to myself (at that particular time)? I am now protecting her. I stated that she might also be “trying to look town,” which is a scum tactic, but not enough to hang someone on. I also stated that if she did indeed misrepresent Jitsu’s post that too would be scummy. Funny you over look those comments, but say I am defending her. I am not giving anyone a free pass for being lazy, I just feel that there is a scummier people here. My win condition is to lynch scum, not obtain information from a lynch…what is yours?

I don't buy it. You are making the assumption that she is lazy. You don't know her, you don't know her style yet you can accurately say in 10 posts that she's being lazy. How do you know this? What about her analysis suggests this? The fact that she doesn't know the reasons behind Sudo? The fact that she's leaving out major events in the game while focusing on the minute? Why can't that be calculated? Why can't she be a newbie scum trying to look town by focusing on details that are irrelevant to the main conversation because one of the people in the conversation is scum with her? Is that so far out of the realm of possibility that we automatically assume she's lazy?

At this point, the whole game is based on assumptions. You assume she is being scummy versus lazy. I can say she is being lazy. Her noise ratio versus yours is quite different. Her analysis (to me) seems half assed like she was skimming. Seems to me that someone who is mafia would be going line by line trying to find the littlest comment to jump on and make a case about. Seems to me that mafia would be opportunistic and jump on the BW of the hour with a vote (has anata voted for anyone?). Granted this is all subjective, but I think there are scummier lynches today that need to be addressed. She could be a newbie scum, she could be experienced scum being calculated. She could be absolutely anything. That it the catch. I don’t know. You asked my opinion. I gave it to you. Why are you trying to breed an atmosphere that where if people disagree with you they are probably scum. I was content not providing my 2 cents day 1 on the argument and seeing how that played out while still only pushing my Mitzef case. You asked me for it. How am I protecting her when you probed me for the information?

I also think Mexal vote is interesting. He added little. We know he can post large content filled post, but only provides a “I agree” post. Where are the follow up question? Jitsu, was applying pressure, if you were doing that too, don’t you have some questions for Anata to answer? I asked him to provide a small bullet point case, but he just quotes a huge block of Jitsu’s post. He cant even do that. Jitsu, I feel might be scum hunting, what are you doing? Even Jer, added something. I get the feeling that he also thinks that Anata is scum, because he thinks Sudo is. However, Mexal I am not sure. He agrees with Jitsu's post, but doesnt understand why I thought Anata was being lazy...this doesnt make since, please explain Mexal...and again, can I just have your case in three bullet points, I read Jitsu case..I want your case (even if it is Jitsu's case) in your words..why is that so hard?

Why do I have to post follow up questions when Anata doesn't even address the post that was made against her? Why do I have to be the focal point of all discussion in this game? Why is it my job to drive this game along by posting follow up questions to everyone? Isn't it possible that my goal was to see who defended Anata? Isn't it possible that I wanted to see what other people did? You keep making these assumptions that I'm the one supposed to be leading the town but by doing that, how do I get a full picture of the game? If I want to post follow up questions, I do it. If I want to post a case, I do it. If I just want to follow a case, I'll do that as well. My playstyle is what it is. Don't expect me to be the master leading all the dogs around by a leash. It's funny that you're attacking me for this considering how much content I've provided for this game. This is one of the reasons I DIDN'T make a case. This is one of the reasons I didn't follow up with a crapload of pressure. Simply put, I wanted to see who defended her and now I know.

This is a very interesting quote and I think everyone should read 2-3 times. “Why do I have to post follow up questions when Anata doesn't even address the post that was made against her?” This particular point is not about Anata it is about you. So say you didn’t like how Anata deflected attention by mentioning the vote. But aren’t you doing the same thing here. Avoiding direct questions to you by deflecting back to Anata? By your own standards isn’t that scummy? I also not your appeals for emotion. “Why do I have to be the focal point of all discussion in this game?” Wow. At this current time, if the entire game was poled, do you really think you would be the focal point? You are either really narcissistic or appealing for emotion. If you really are town, it is your job to scum hunt. I find you increasing scummy after this post. You are defending your actions of not asking direct follow up questions to Anata because you want us to believe it is not your job to ask follow up questions…however, you have asked me over a dozen questions. Anyone else feeling this is suspicious? Why is it so hard for you to post your case against Anata in your own words? I want bullet points IN YOUR WORDS. IT can be the same “reasons” as Jitsu….but I want it from you, not a quote from Jitsu.

For those currently voting Anata, my question is, why go after Anata if you think Sudo is scum?…What if Sudo comes up town? How does that effect your thoughts on Anata? I bet it does to some degree.

Why do we have to think Sudo is scummier? We obviously think Anata is scum so why can't we vote for her? I'll let you know my thoughts on Sudo when Anata is lynched

Well in Jitsu’s case that you stated as your own he said.

Also, I get the impression that you may have been trying to help out Sudo by deflecting suspicion from him.

Now why would Anata do that unless they were both scum together? This post is going on the assumption that Sudo is scum and Anata is trying to help him. What if Sudo was town, then what is Anata trying to do? Seems to me that part of Anata’s guilt in your point of view is by association with Sudo. Which is funny, because you now think I am scummy, because of my “defending” of Anata. Your entire “case” against me is based own your attack (or I should say Jitsu’s, because you apparently lack the ability to provide your own case and need to rely on a newbie) of Anata.

What if Anata comes up town, how does that effect your thoughts on Sudo? I have a feeling it really doesn’t.

What's your point?

Seems to me like Sudo is the one you really want to be voting, if Sudo comes up scum, this is looks quite bad for Anata.

these two quote go together. As stated above your case has a lot to do with Sudo alignment. Another reason you state you want to lynch Anata is for information. Well, seems to me that lynching Sudo (to you) would provide more information than the other way around. I also think it is funny that you don’t want to lynch Mitzek because it wont provide enough info. I think it will provide tons. For instance, you seems to be completely ignoring him, why is that? I am actively pushing a case against him, wont that provide info to you about me? I am noting the blind eye you are turning toward Mitzef, does that say anything about your alignment at this point? No…but if Mitzef comes up scum, it doesn’t look good for you.

This all being said, I think Mitzef is the lynch today. He is scummy all by himself (as is Gunslinger)…I would also not be against pressuring (even lynching) Sudo more as it could provide much info.

He might be scummy, but he's not the lynch for today, especially with you defending Anata rather strongly.

How does Sudo provide more info than Anata? You seem to believe that we're only voting for Anata because of Sudo. On top of that, you're defending her. What info would we gain from lynching Miztef? Gunslinger? Sudo?

I am bolding the below, because this is important.

Sweet Christ. I am surprised one no broke down this post yet. SO you think Mitzef is scummy? Where the crap did that come from? I skimmed your post and I cant find one post that you voted for Mitzef, mention you thought he was scummy, or even questioned or probed him. You have only really ignored him (unless I missed a post) and a couple posts agreed with him. Why do you think Mitzef is scummy? Why have you waited to tell the town this until now? If you think he is scummy, why are you voting for the person he wants to lynch? Why is he not the lynch for today? If you think I am defending Anata, I think you are ignoring Mitzef. I think just as much information can now be discovered by lynching Mitzef. I am not pushing for a Sudo lynch or Gunslinger lynch at this point….I want Mitzef to hang. You think he is scum too, where is your vote for Mitzef?

Mexal, there are a ton of questions for you here this time, please answer them this time.

[curiouskarmadog]

at any rate, I will have time tomorrow to post, and this game is the first on my agenda....I think people need to seriously look at Mitzef.

Huh? Why do you keep saying this like we are not looking seriously at him. We are -- he is number two or higher on many of our lynch-want-lists, and nobody really seems to believe anything he is saying.

wasnt so much directed towards you, Jitsu, I am getting a town vibe off of you and feel that you are actively looking for scum. This was directed toward those in the town who are not voting or have not chimed in awhile.....and I guess the replacements to come.

[curiouskarmadog]

Because some people are still keen on lynching me, can I get all the points against me so I can defend myself? I believe I tried to defend myself before, but I'm a little confused as to what makes me so especially scummy.

I find it kind of ridiculous that karmadog posted a whole bunch of stuff regarding anata and some others, yet hasn't talked about the case against me lately, whom he seems to be keen on lynching. My impression is basically that karmadog is either mafia going after the easy lynches, or just has a grudge against me for voting him earlier.

Grudge? You mean for your random vote to “get things going” from the top of Page 2? You are ridiculous. Here is your case.

1.) You are opportunistic. You have constantly jumped on the wagon of the hour without providing any content what so ever. Where ever the suspicion or votes go as does your vote through out this entire game!
2.) You claim to have a “bunch of mafia experience” but then you post these gem.

I wasn't shocked that no one voted me at that specific time, just that there were no votes on me at all, random or otherwise. Usually my gameplay is seen is heavily scummy right from the get go, so it's just a different feeling for me.

oh, and yes, I'm an extremely impatient player. Not to get the day finished per say, I just like to keep things moving at a fast pace. This game is getting a bit fast though, so I think I'll try to slow down a bit.

I've noticed that in games where I'm mafia, people tend not to suspect me for a good while, cause I tend to play more cautious. When I'm town, people tend to jump at me right away, since I play however I feel like ><.

OK.

So, as town, I tend to be completely careless with my actions, impatient, and jumpy.

However, as scum, I tend to play more cautiously, and keep myself under the radar. That's why in game's where I'm civilian, I tend to be attacked quite early on, and many times I stay the center of attention for long periods of time.

This game is going crazy fast in my opinion, even for my impatient self. That's why I feel it should be slowed down slightly. I'm not talking about everyone lurking or anything like that, just a little more thought to things, instead of super fast accusations on many people.

3.) you say I am trying to get an easy lynch (deflecting off of you)

No one asked you how you play when you are mafia. You just felt like providing this information for no reason. Anybody wonder why he is pushing so hard to let us know how he plays when he is mafia unprovoked, yet he has not tried to scum hunt once at this point? Why is he already defending himself instead of looking for scum? I also think it is ironic that as soon as he posts these, his play turns cautious.

Also why do you label yourself an easy lynch? Have you done something that makes you an easy lynch?


4.) Your words say it best here don’t they?

His spreading of suspicion (me, gunslinger, mexal, sudo, anata?) is quite large, and gives me the impression that he is trying to make sure he can slip between votes and look more innocent no matter who is lynched.

LOL, hypocrite, this is all from the same quote.

.

Jerubbaal - Neutral/

scummy

. Kinda just pops in and out. I don't particularly find his arguments bad, just not very useful. I would keep an eye on him later days, but not a good lynch candidate for today.

CKD -

Scummy

. Don't like most of his arguments. They are rarely very clear and he gets emotional (it seems). Of course, it's very OMGUS of me to think him scummy but meh, that's how it is.

Korlash - Neutral. Very odd player.

Some posts scream scum to me

, others make me think he is very town. Just kinda random.

Gunslinger -

Scummy

. I think everyone knows he seems scummy. Not much else to say.

Anata -

Scummy

. Shocking isn't it? Even if I didn't think she was scummy, the way the town is going, it's basically me or her, so I have to be against her.

Sudo -

Scummy

/Other - As others have pointed out, Sudo seems to have ulterior motives, yet is not especially scummy. I'd want to keep him around just to see how it goes.

SO what does that say about you, given your own logic?

5.) your OMGUS suck vote against me.

if he is scum, His semi-protection of anata makes me believe she is also more likely scum.

Don't care how OMGUS this seems, I feel karmadog is most scummy at this time, and am going to

vote: Curiouskarmadog

You didn’t even present a case against me. The only reason you stated I was scum, was by suggesting I am casting a large net. Why am I scummy?

6.) Has not tried to scum hunt once this game. I challenge everyone to read through his post and find where he is attempting to find scum? Then ask yourself, why is isn’t trying to find scum.

Mitzef, why haven’t you tried to find scum?
7.) You are trying to push cases against me and Anata currently without backing your vote up with a case.

[curiouskarmadog]

bold is me.

My win condition is to lynch scum, not obtain information from a lynch…what is yours?

Interesting win condition. Mine is that I win the game when all the scum are lynched, not specifically to lynch scum. I believe Anata is scum. I've said that enough times. I also believe it gives us the most information for later in the game. That's a side benefit of lynching Anata. The game doesn't end on day 1 just so you know.

How can a Anata provide more information than a Mitzef lynch?

How am I protecting her when you probed me for the information?

Because your entire argument for her was that she's lazy while pushing Miztef like he's the Unibomber. Your response for all the inconsistencies in her post was laziness. That's it. Then you moved on.

I moved on? Then you really need to read the post again...did you read the bits where I said some of her actions were scummy, or could be scummy?

“Why do I have to post follow up questions when Anata doesn't even address the post that was made against her?” This particular point is not about Anata it is about you. So say you didn’t like how Anata deflected attention by mentioning the vote. But aren’t you doing the same thing here. Avoiding direct questions to you by deflecting back to Anata? By your own standards isn’t that scummy?

No. I didn't avoid the questions. I told you flat out that I did not want to make a case against her because I agreed with Jitsu's post. Just because I decided PUBLICALLY that I didn't want to spend my time making a case that's been made doesn't mean I was avoiding it. Just because I didn't post follow up questions when no response WAS EVER GIVEN to the case doesn't mean I was avoiding it. Avoiding it would to pretend it was never said and discuss other points. I never did that. I told you repeatedly I did not want to make a case. You seem to be forgetting that.

Why are you afraid to post your own case against someone you deem scum in your own words? I have asked 4 times now.

I also not your appeals for emotion. “Why do I have to be the focal point of all discussion in this game?” Wow. At this current time, if the entire game was poled, do you really think you would be the focal point? You are either really narcissistic or appealing for emotion. If you really are town, it is your job to scum hunt. I find you increasing scummy after this post. You are defending your actions of not asking direct follow up questions to Anata because you want us to believe it is not your job to ask follow up questions…however, you have asked me over a dozen questions. Anyone else feeling this is suspicious? Why is it so hard for you to post your case against Anata in your own words? I want bullet points IN YOUR WORDS. IT can be the same “reasons” as Jitsu….but I want it from you, not a quote from Jitsu.

You don't like my appeal to emotion? Sorry, but it's entirely your fault. You pushed me to it by repeatedly asking for the same thing when I repeatedly told you I did not want to do it. My whole post reeks of frustration because frankly, I was frustrated and that's what happens when I reach my breaking point. You think it was a ploy to put that much emotion into a post? Interesting.

You ignore my questions and comments in this posts. You state it is not your job to ask follow up questions, but you have asked me many. You had no questions for Anata? Now that we are getting a replacement for her, you are going to keep pushing a case, that the replacement cant defend?

I asked you a dozen questions because you warranted a dozen questions. Why ask Anata a dozen questions when she never even answered the original questions? Maybe I would have asked follow up questions if she bothered to address the original points. Doesn't that seem conceivable?

What orginal questions did you ask ANata?

It's not hard for me to post a case against Anata. It's the fact that A. I wanted to see what people did and B. I didn't feel the need to rehash what people say. I'm not a parrot. I told you I agreed with Jitsu's post, that should be enough. You were going after me BEFORE Anata was even lynched. Had she turned out to be town, then maybe you'd have a point. Had she turned out to be scum, you'd look like an ass. But she didn't turn out to be anything because she wasn't lynched. So your entire tirade was premature at best. It's like you're already sowing seeds of doubt on me before you even know what she is. Or do you know what her alignment is?

I am "going after you" because you are ignoring actual scummy people.

these two quote go together. As stated above your case has a lot to do with Sudo alignment. Another reason you state you want to lynch Anata is for information. Well, seems to me that lynching Sudo (to you) would provide more information than the other way around. I also think it is funny that you don’t want to lynch Mitzek because it wont provide enough info. I think it will provide tons. For instance, you seems to be completely ignoring him, why is that? I am actively pushing a case against him, wont that provide info to you about me? I am noting the blind eye you are turning toward Mitzef, does that say anything about your alignment at this point? No…but if Mitzef comes up scum, it doesn’t look good for you.

Sure it would. But it only provides info about you and jerubbaal I could get that info by lynching Anata while also getting info on Jitsu, jerubbaal, you, Miztef, AA...but meh, it doesn't matter. You don't get that this game is longer than a day.

As for Miztef coming up scum, how does it look bad for me? Because I don't deem to comment on him besides the fact that I find him scummy? Maybe.

It makes you look like his scum partner because you have just stated you felt he was scummy, without providing a case against him. Without voting him ever..the only thing you have done this game in reference to Mitzef is agree with him. You have voted other people in the game you thought scummy...you have applied pressure to other people in the game you wanted us to believe was scummy...Why have you not attakced Mitzef once? Asked him just one question? You could be his scum partner, because you are afraid to vote him..or even present a case against him. Or even acknowledge that just has much infromation can be found in a MItzef lynch as an Anata lynch.

Sweet Christ. I am surprised one no broke down this post yet. SO you think Mitzef is scummy? Where the crap did that come from? I skimmed your post and I cant find one post that you voted for Mitzef, mention you thought he was scummy, or even questioned or probed him. You have only really ignored him (unless I missed a post) and a couple posts agreed with him. Why do you think Mitzef is scummy? Why have you waited to tell the town this until now? If you think he is scummy, why are you voting for the person he wants to lynch? Why is he not the lynch for today? If you think I am defending Anata, I think you are ignoring Mitzef. I think just as much information can now be discovered by lynching Mitzef. I am not pushing for a Sudo lynch or Gunslinger lynch at this point….I want Mitzef to hang. You think he is scum too, where is your vote for Mitzef?

Lets answer these one at a time.

Yes. I think Miztef is scummy. It's been there the whole game. You assume I don't read the thread but I do and I've read your case on him. I agree with it. I think he's scummy because he started out strong, back peddled, played to people's expectations of him as opposed to his own style, made an excuse for his playstyle based on others thinking he's always scum (which was a WIFOM argument btw). I waited because I thought others needed attention. You were giving him attention so I didn't. I am voting for Anata because I find her scummier. That doesn't mean I don't find him scummy. I didn't say they were partners, I said I found them scummy. If Anata is town, then maybe Miztef is scum. If Anata is scum, maybe Miztef is town. They don't have to both be scum to both be scummy. It's day 1. I've explained multiple times why I believe Anata to be the lynch for today. If you've read my posts like you seem to have, you already know. Read them again. If the town rather lynch Miztef then Anata, then I'll lynch him. But I think Anata is scummier and would rather lynch her.

I think that about covers it. Are you having fun yet?

Let me get this straight...if the town wants to lynch Mitzef you will lynch him? Currently the only people voting Anata is Jit, you, and MItzef

there are 3 people voting Mitzef...me, AA, and jerb..

if you take Anata and Mitzef out of the equation (because they are the lynch canididates today)..that is 3 versus 2....why dont you back up your words with a vote.

[curiouskarmadog]

This is annoying. Miztef is scummy...very scummy. CKD's last post proves it. But there is a nagging doubt that I have that he's town...mainly because he's so scummy it hurts. He's such an easy target that it just bothers me. I've made similar cases on people before...most recently in a game on SA where I was scum. There are town that make it incredibly easy to make a case on and Miztef seems like he's one of those. But...he could be scum so meh. It's day 1 and it's hard to get a better case than that which really bothers me.

Annoying...

It is so scummy it hurts? Like someone is so pro-town he must be scummy?

not only his he scummy, it NOW provides the town with tons of information...why are you afraid for the town to have this information?

He is an easy target NOW I have presented my case. Why is he an easy target?..because he has played scummy the whole game...hey, here is a great idea, maybe he has played scummy, because he is scum.

[curiouskarmadog]

As for Anata, you're a fucking idiot. Sorry, but you are. You're FORCING me to push a case on Anata. And this all started BEFORE she asked for a replacement. So your point is invalid.

We could also mention that once the pressure was turned up, she conveniently asked for a replacement and that everything against Anata then becomes invalid. And it seems you're ok with this. Interesting.

When things don’t go your way you resort to insults. Nice play. I am “forcing” you present a case for someone you think is scum. Why do you “chose not to”? Why is my point invalid? Your vote is still on her…present your case, replacement or not. IF you case is invalid, then so is your vote.

Why do you assume I am ok with this? You are the one saying it is invalid, not I.

You're trying so hard to lynch Miztef. Would you feel like an ass if you were wrong? My vote isn't on Miztef because I think Anata is scummier. I don't need to vote yet. Voting now wouldn't prove anything anyway except make Miztef the more likely lynch since I'd be the swing vote. I don't want to do that yet. I'm having too much fun with you atm.

Ahh, so now you are backtracking, the town wants to lynch Mit, but you wont vote..interesting. Will I feel like an ass? No. Will you feel like an ass if he comes up scum?

EBWOP: I forgot to unvote.

unvote, vote: Miztef

It seems CKD that you have saved Anata for another day.

“Saved her” from what? You don’t even have a case against her. If you remember Mexal, you made me comment on Anata.

[curiouskarmadog]

with Jitsu's vote, that puts Mitzef at -2 (assuming he has 5 votes).

[curiouskarmadog]

was commenting as I read the posts, your vote came after I commented.

LOL, "my case is Jitsu's" no, that Jitsu's..I wanted yours...but now you have voted Mitzef..I would like to your case against him..

Or do you just want to quote my posts too? You called him scummy, why is he scummy to you?

[curiouskarmadog]

I am tired of the town doing all the work of Mexal...again I will make it easy...post 3 reasons why you think Mitzef is scum.

[curiouskarmadog]

of=for..

and if it is too much for you, maybe you need to ask for a replacement too.

[curiouskarmadog]

fair enough...thank you for reposting this case.

[curiouskarmadog]

in post 109, mex only asked Mit a question..there was no mention of Mex (in his words) thinking Mit was scum...you are right that he does agree with you in in 135, but does he do anything about it? in post 159, he only acknowledges my suspicion, again not stating that Mit is scum. Post 221, He does mention that he thinks Mitzef is scummy, but my problem is, he doesnt do anything about it...do you see how he has gone on and on about Anata and myself..and anyone who is scummy, but doesnt even try to pressure Mit? Have I missed a post where he actually attacks mitzef or pressures him? Maybe in post 109 (maybe)..if he has thought Mit was scum for so long, why no pressure?

Jitsu, unlike you, I have a problem when somebody votes stating "what he said"...I dont understand why you dont have a problem with Mexal riding your back on the Anata case. I also dont understand why you dont find it suspicious that he could not put a case together against Anata on his own.

In reference to Mex's vote (or rather his case) of Mit...I missed it.. LIke Mex, I have gotten fustrated with this game and there are tons of lenghty posts...I have admitted that I missed it once(383). I guess my problem with Mex was I presented a case, then he comes back with "what he said"...however, to his credit, he did add "I've seen this excuse before and the person was scum. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now."..which was not in my case...so I have admitted my mistake.

[curiouskarmadog]

out of our three pages of arguements, these two points are the only things you got out of it?

so what is your point (in reference to me)..is there no information that can be obtained from a Mitzef lynch?

maybe you can help get us some information Day 1...provide some comments...here, I even ask some questions.

what are your thoughts on Mitzef Day 1? Your thoughts on Mex and I? Your thoughts on Mex's case (or Jitsu's rather) for Anata (for it did involve you somewhat). Mex's case against Mitzef?

[curiouskarmadog]

for the record..

"As for Anata, you're a fucking idiot. Sorry, but you are. You're FORCING me to push a case on Anata. And this all started BEFORE she asked for a replacement. So your point is invalid. "

you didnt call me a fucking idiot because I have asked you a question repeatedly.

also, I would have asked you "15 time" to present YOUR case (not jitsu's) if you had done it the first time I ask (or at all).

[curiouskarmadog]

edit

also, I wouldnt have asked you "15 times" to present YOUR case (not jitsu's) if you had done it the first time I ask (or at all)....

[curiouskarmadog]

so this was your retort to Jitsu's what is your stance currrently?

I hope you understand there was 0 content in that post.

[curiouskarmadog]

I decided to do some checking up on a few things.

It might be interesting for some of you to know that Anata has joined newbie game #498 and she had made 5 posts since Monday morning.

She admits she is a newbie there, but she seems to be defending herself fairly well there -- see post 58.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &&start=50

I am still rereading, but I don't like this at all. It is possible that she was an overwhelmed newbie townie, but she wasn't under THAT much pressure. I think the heat got to her and she bailed.

JITSU!!!..you cant reference other ONGOING games..it is a modkill-able offense...you should have said something like "everyone needs to meta game Anata, you might find something interesting"....

[curiouskarmadog]

jesus,

there could be many reason while she left this game (and joined other)..one could be she is scum and couldnt handle the pressure..

mostly likely she has a boring role(vanilla town) and is lazy because she doesnt want to take the effort to defend such a boring role..

at any rate, Jitsu, I assume you didnt know it was a modkill-able offense...you really should PM the mod and let him know it is there..

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm not seeing that in the rules on the first page.

I've never seen anyone modkilled for meta-gaming a player based on other games on the site.

Global Rules.

viewtopic.php?t=6470

[curiouskarmadog]

jesus,

there could be many reason while she left this game (and joined other)..one could be she is scum and couldnt handle the pressure..

mostly likely she has a boring role(vanilla town) and is lazy because she doesnt want to take the effort to defend such a boring role..

at any rate, Jitsu, I assume you didnt know it was a modkill-able offense...you really should PM the mod and let him know it is there..

Btw, on a side topic, anyone who doesn't play the game because they got a vanilla townie shouldn't be playing the game in the first place. The vanilla role is VERY MUCH apart of Mafia and if you can't stand that role (odds are you will have that role more times than not) then you shouldn't be playing. Playing that role is the only way you'll ever improve at the game and you should embrace the challenge of it instead of relying on the crux of a role.

this is one of the first things I completely agree with you about...I hate replacements too, especially when I think one is scum (so if you are town and really think Anata is scum, I feel your pain).

most likely she just didnt have a defense and didnt want to bother arguing over a vanilla role...

right now we are all in a shitty position, needing 3 replacements...NabNab is pretty cool so I doubt he will modkill you (especially because I dont think Jitsu knew the rule and we need 3 replacements as is)...but you should PM him to let him know anyway.

[curiouskarmadog]

most likely she just didnt have a defense and didnt want to bother arguing over a vanilla role...

It's not most likely so stop saying that. It's likely...as likely as she was scum and couldn't handle the pressure of mounting a defense because she didn't know how. You can call it an option but to say it's most likely is misleading.

Just curious..

how many games have you played? How many games have you read?

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm not seeing that in the rules on the first page.

I've never seen anyone modkilled for meta-gaming a player based on other games on the site.

Global Rules.

viewtopic.php?t=6470

Do not talk outside the game thread about an ongoing game except where allowed to do so by your role.

Do you mean this one? If so, I take it to mean don't talk about the current ongoing game that you're in outside the thread. Meaning, don't go discussing the game where players in your game can see it and might get spoiled. I've seen rules like that before and they tend to address that issue, not the one you're talking about. Regardless, Jitsu wasn't aware (if your interpretation is correct) and shouldn't be modkilled for it.

people get mod killed or at least warned about it...I cant quote it (it has happened twice in two of my current games)...but it is a BIG no no here.

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm not seeing that in the rules on the first page.

I've never seen anyone modkilled for meta-gaming a player based on other games on the site.

Global Rules.

viewtopic.php?t=6470

Do not talk outside the game thread about an ongoing game except where allowed to do so by your role.

Do you mean this one? If so, I take it to mean don't talk about the current ongoing game that you're in outside the thread. Meaning, don't go discussing the game where players in your game can see it and might get spoiled. I've seen rules like that before and they tend to address that issue, not the one you're talking about. Regardless, Jitsu wasn't aware (if your interpretation is correct) and shouldn't be modkilled for it.

you are not suppose to talk about an ongoing game outside of it's thread (or game)..Jitsu provided a reference to the game outside of that game's thread...NabNab probably can explain the rule better.

[curiouskarmadog]

most likely she just didnt have a defense and didnt want to bother arguing over a vanilla role...

It's not most likely so stop saying that. It's likely...as likely as she was scum and couldn't handle the pressure of mounting a defense because she didn't know how. You can call it an option but to say it's most likely is misleading.

Just curious..

how many games have you played? How many games have you read?

I have played around 15-20 on 3 different sites with 3 different sets of customs. As for games I've read, maybe 10 on top of that?

Why?

how many times have you seen someone asked to be replaced in a game (when they were mafia or a power role) and then go start another game?
vs.
versus seeing someone who had a boring townie role, asks to be replaced, and start another game.

many people play this game just to be mafia or power roles...I agree with you that they shouldnt play...but it is very common for people to quit when they get bored of their vanilla townie role..

the fact that she quit here and started another game, does in no way indicate she is scummy...

[curiouskarmadog]

fair enough...I think it is safe to say that at this point, you have tunnel vision on Anata and think I am scum defending her.

I have tunnel vision on Mitzef...and dont understand why you cant see he is the lynch of the day...yes, I know you have voted him, but I just dont understand why you are not atacking him like you are attacking someone who has asked for a replacement and is not here...

our views are simply different...where do you want to go from here?


ooc/
what do you do in DC that you can post in the middle of the day?

[curiouskarmadog]

First, to comment, I did not see the global rule about communication about other ongoing games. I did not intend to break any rules, and I read the rules on page 1 of this game carefully. I have seen lots of people quote posts from other games and I figured the information was publicly available anyway. I did not realize that it made a difference whether the game was ongoing or not.

If the Mod wants to Modkill me for it, so be it.

Until such time, I will continue to post.

And to prove that I am not hiding:

@Mod: Please review this post and take whatever action you feel is necessary.

I dont think you did it on purpose and you are right, it is not in this game rules (but it is a global rule)..I doubt Nab will modkill, especially since we are trying to get 2-3 replacements..you only did it once (which is why I warned you).

referencing old games is ok (though I see it rarely), you just can not reference ongoing games.

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD is really, really pushing hard for a Miztef lynch, and continued to attack Mexal even after Mexal changed his vote to Miztef. I still find that odd.

Just because Mex changed his vote, why should I stop pushing for a lynch of someone I think is scum? IS MEx the only person in this game?

I am not willing to say that CKD is scum yet, as I don't have good evidence to support that. I still think it is possible that Miztef is really scum, and CKD could just be an aggressive townie pursuing someone who is obviously scummy and doesn't want them to slip into the cracks. It would also seem to not make sense that CKD would push so hard for a Miztef lynch if he knew Miztef were innocent –

Let it be known, I am willing to take most of the responsibility for the Mitzef lynch Day 2. That is how sure I am he is scum. I have a feeling that if we don’t lynch him today, I will be Nked tonight for one of two reasons. A.) he is scum, wants me off his back b.) he is town, and the mafia wants to frame him. Either way, I have pushed so hard today for the Mit’s lynch, I am pretty sure I am dead if he doesn’t hang.

If her behavior here becomes a meta-issue in the other game, I could see the whole thing getting out of hand. All in all, I am very unsure of what is/should be allowed in this situation, but I'm going to wait until we hear from NabNab concerning what we can do with the information we have, as it seems very relevant. Clearly, we all know about or have access to all other public goings-on at this site, so the knowledge is available to us, but I am unsure what uses me may put that knowledge to.

THe rule is there for many different reasons. In reference to this game, the rule has already been broken, so the actual post can not be deleted (for some people would have information that others do not). Now that the information is there, it is there...

My problem with Jitsu’s post (other than the obvious) was that it is a little misleading(or maybe I read it wrong)….when I read the post, it sounded like Anata asked for a replacement for this game, THEN JOINED another game, if you meta the dates of Anata’s posts, you find that is not exactly how it has happened, she was in both games (actively posting) at the same time.

[curiouskarmadog]

Let it be known, I am willing to take most of the responsibility for the Mitzef lynch Day 2. That is how sure I am he is scum. I have a feeling that if we don’t lynch him today, I will be Nked tonight for one of two reasons. A.) he is scum, wants me off his back b.) he is town, and the mafia wants to frame him. Either way, I have pushed so hard today for the Mit’s lynch, I am pretty sure I am dead if he doesn’t hang.

I'd say you're pretty safe.

you know what the mafia will do? Interesting.

My problem with Jitsu’s post (other than the obvious) was that it is a little misleading(or maybe I read it wrong)….when I read the post, it sounded like Anata asked for a replacement for this game, THEN JOINED another game, if you meta the dates of Anata’s posts, you find that is not exactly how it has happened, she was in both games (actively posting) at the same time.

Uh, he clarified that already. Did you forget about that post too?

must have missed it...yeah ok last page...got it..sorry Jitsu, thank you Mex

[curiouskarmadog]

quote tags fixed.

Let it be known, I am willing to take most of the responsibility for the Mitzef lynch Day 2. That is how sure I am he is scum. I have a feeling that if we don’t lynch him today, I will be Nked tonight for one of two reasons. A.) he is scum, wants me off his back b.) he is town, and the mafia wants to frame him. Either way, I have pushed so hard today for the Mit’s lynch, I am pretty sure I am dead if he doesn’t hang.

I'd say you're pretty safe.

you know what the mafia will do? Interesting.

]
My problem with Jitsu’s post (other than the obvious) was that it is a little misleading(or maybe I read it wrong)….when I read the post, it sounded like Anata asked for a replacement for this game, THEN JOINED another game, if you meta the dates of Anata’s posts, you find that is not exactly how it has happened, she was in both games (actively posting) at the same time.

Uh, he clarified that already. Did you forget about that post too?

must have missed it...yeah ok last page...got it..sorry Jitsu, thank you Mex[/quote]

[curiouskarmadog]

who would?

[curiouskarmadog]

who would?

Do you like to fish? It seems so here, at least...

Mexal seems to think that I am clear for a NK..I want to know why.

[curiouskarmadog]

Mexal seems to think that I am clear for a NK..I want to know why.

No, you wanted to know who was the most logical choice of a night kill. That is a different question all together.

As for why, it gets into logical speculation and WIFOM and it's an unnecessary conversation right now. It won't help the town so we're not going to dicuss it. Drop it.

we will see

[curiouskarmadog]

subject dropped for now.

[curiouskarmadog]

Oh yeah...it was kinda mixed in, but bolded, I unvoted at the end of page 18.

I have to say that I agree with all of Mexals and Jitsus posts on this page about Anata being the lynch for today. If we let a replacement jump in, if they are anything like Mexal they could, as he said, just spin right out of it.

And , i too agree this day is probably only stalling at this point. I also dont see too much harm in this, as it seems that most people are okay with it.

Vote: Anata

why dont you form your own opinion?...this seems like scum, who is trying to fit in

[curiouskarmadog]

They clearly said that we should lynch before the replacement comes because they could spin out of it, and because they couldnt really give us good information anyway.

Yeah... I don't want to keep seeming like I am defending Anata here but that is more or less another "I agree with what they said" vote... You all know my feelings on that matter already...

But if you guys feel so confident in whatever case you have against her go ahead... I will be saying I told you so tomorrow... bank on it...

Gunslinger wrote:
I have to say that I agree with all of Mexals and Jitsus posts on this page about Anata being the lynch for today.


Ok I decided to be fair and look at each of Jitsu's and Mexal's points for Anata being today's lynch on THIS PAGE! to be honest... there is not a single point on this page of why she is in anyway scum... Only points on why replacements should not be given any chance to defend themselves and should be lynched before joining... (Exaggeration I know but you get my point more or less =D)

So Unvote:, Vote: GunslingerKB

Your vote was not even an "I agree with them!" vote... it was an "I agree with their points that I didn't even read" vote... I will be honest I still have to go back and fully read your case against Anata, but Gunslinger just said his reasons were on this page and yet there are none.. so he is a liar, and is more or less acting strange and scummy to me

...

How did you not see the "reasons" i was talking about. I didnt say anything about the posts on this page saying she was scum. I said I agreed wiht mexal and jitsu on her being the lynch for today. Everything that could be said on Anata being scum has pretty much already been said, and its about retarted for me to reiterate everything that has been said. Both jitsu and Mexal voted for Anata, and you didnt jump onto them like you did me.

Korlash, you keep defending Anata. And now you take a stab at me. You seem dire to make me look like scum, even though half the people in this game have realized im pretty much ust a newb. It seems as though you know Anata is scum, and that your trying to protect a teamate. Why else would you be jumping on the weaker player that has made some dumb posts? (Ie: Me)

I thought earlier that you were scum, and now I think you are. Many people made clear posts about why Anata would be scum, and you just seemed to "fail to understand why she could be" Now it seems like your trying to tturn the attention from Anata onto me. Just because of some weak post i made. (Again, sorry. I would have let you all replace my newbiness, but with three people gone, I figure I should just stay.)

Unvote: Anata Vote:Korlash

I think your scum afraid your parteners going to die.

ugh....I didnt think that I would a.) agree with Korlash about anything or B.) think anyone was just as scummy as Mitzef...but this post reeks..

first the OMGUS vote on Korlash, the fact you keep pulling that newbie card to defend your actions, the fact that when you first voted you only voted because everyone lese thought it was a good idea(even though most the votes were on MItzef)..The difference between you and Jitsu is that Jitsu put forth a very large "case" against Anata..you have done nothing (side note: I attacked Mexal too, when I felt he didnt bring a case against Anata)...

SO basically you whole case (and vote) against Korlash is because he is "defending" Anata?

So he is scum by assocation to Anata, who you dont even know the alignment of?

FoS Gunslinger

I would be fine with a Mitzef or Gunslinger lynch.

Gun, why vote Anata over Mitzef?

[curiouskarmadog]

well, the candidates (in my view) are Mitzef, Gunslinger, and Anata (I guess). You know how I feel about all three..

I would like to give NabNab a little more time to find replacements (we need three) to get their thought and opinions in Day 1.

[curiouskarmadog]

What is your opinion on Miztef and CKD?

Both of them would be better choices o lynch then Anata. Thats for sure... I don;t like CKD's posts a few pages back I think I talked about them in my little 4 post spiel you all said was worthless...

what didnt you like about my post? I know you said that before, can you please provide the post number before.

You know what I don't give a dang anymore... Do what the hell you want...

Unvote:

Don't expect me back until the replacements get here... Have fun losing...

wow.

[curiouskarmadog]

that is why for every game I play I replace into one..

good karma

[curiouskarmadog]

going to be a light poster 11/09-11/12..long weekend holiday..

[curiouskarmadog]

LOL, Adel....game prepare for crystalline logic....Have a feeling she will spice it up a bit...

welcome

[curiouskarmadog]

see what I am talking about?..spice

[curiouskarmadog]

^^^, yep confirm vote Mitzef...to lazy to push a case, willing to jump on the next bandwagon....


Still with the graphs huh Adel? Quality has increased, I will give you that....

I dont know how helpful they are Day 1, but I think a comparsion for future days (could be key)..do you do these every "day"?

[curiouskarmadog]

Vote Count as of Post 593

Korlash (4):

GunglingerKB, Adel, Sudo_Nym, Miztef

Miztef (2):

curiouskarmadog, jerubbaal

Anata112 (2):

Jitsu, Miztef

Adel (1):

Korlash

Not Voting (3):

Satael, Abstract Actuary, oEJo

12 alive, 7 will lynch.

mitzef unvoted

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm getting really bored.

so?

[curiouskarmadog]

Rather, it looks like ckd KNOWS anata would come up town and defended her to get townie points if she ended up mislynched.

thats wonderful, Mexal attacks me because I thought Anata was lazy and didnt feel like she was scum (so we must be scum buddies), Anata/Set attacks me because I "defended" them and I must KNOW they are town (so I am scum who knows Anata is town)..seems like a lose lose sitiuation all around. I think it is funny how people are assuming my alignment based on someone else's alignment that is unknown. Or this simply could be a way for Set to tell us he is town over and over again...who knows. I do note that Set does go out of his way to compliment his two biggest oppenents, and attacks their possible targets. I cant believe Mitzef only gets a sentence in set's breakdown.

For the record, I didnt feel there was a big enough case agaisnt anata at the time compared to Mitzef. Also (again), I said that mexal was reading the thread because he asked me where I got that Anata was lazy, when it is clearly in Jitsu's post (which he posted as his case later) why Anata was could be lazy. I htink there were other reasons too, if you really need them I can pull them, but doubt you really care.

I still feel good about my vote on MItzef....I also note how GUn is chiming in without really bringing anything to the table. Korlash could be the mafia roleblocker or town roleblocker, I just dont know yet. I dont think he is the lynch for today. Even with Set's silly player breakdown it is good to see him. Also welcome Flay, first game with you. Adel is bringing information....information about what, remains to be seen, but the posts are plentiful...the code post was silly and I am not sure why she posted it at this point.

[curiouskarmadog]

I can not believe that Mitzef was town.....

are we now assuming that the RB is indeed town aligned?

going to reread...

[curiouskarmadog]

If you remember Mexal, you made me comment on Anata.

This statement backs up my thought that ckd's intention was to comment subtly in passing so that he could point back to it later when anata came up town. It didn't work out that way because mexal made him clarify. I don't think he ever expected this much attention to be drawn to his original Anata defense.

you are taking this out of context set. I said this to Mex, because I was fine with saying that I didnt find Anata scummy...when he wanted me to clarify why I didnt find Anata scummy, he attacked me for actively defending Anata. Which was not what I was doing, I merely thought that Mitzef was a scummer Day 1...Mex is the one that asked why i thought what I thought, then attacked me for doing so saying that I was defending ANata...

so tell me Set, what was scummy about me "defending" anata?


What are your thoughts on Korlash? You think he is our town RB then? Reasons? I guess the mafia wasnt too worried about him., thoughts?

[curiouskarmadog]

Also this is another reason I hate the Roleblocker role. It is so uncommon the player who gets it (In this case me) is screwed over cause he doesn't get the benefit of begin able to claim a role and get out of a lynch... .

but didnt your claim save your ass day 1 from a lynch?

[curiouskarmadog]

No... One of you were not buying into that. The other "three" people voting me did. meaning I was at 4 votes. Gun, Adel, Miztef(He did he vote/unvote/revote thing) and Sudo.

I already explained why I was afraid I would be lynched twice. I feel i was justified in it.

then why say this?

Also this is another reason I hate the Roleblocker role. It is so uncommon the player who gets it (In this case me) is screwed over cause he doesn't get the benefit of begin able to claim a role and get out of a lynch...

seemed like it worked for you (because as you stated yourself, you felt like you needed to).. if you didnt feel like it the claim would help you, why claim at -3?

think I am going to have to reread Adel's case against Korlash. I am concerned to why mafia wasnt worried about him(but I learned long ago to not try to guess why the mafia do what they do), I also have noticed something about Korlash's posts that are starting to stick out to me...but I need to reread (him) to see if there is a pattern.

more later.

[curiouskarmadog]

this was directed to Set, guess he missed it the first time.

What are your thoughts on Korlash? You think he is our town RB then? Reasons? I guess the mafia wasnt too worried about him., thoughts?

[curiouskarmadog]

I guess you missed where I've already addressed that.

i've seen no reason to doubt his claim. I've never played a game that had a mafia roleblocker but several of my games have had town roleblockers.

I think Flay has a point that the mafia would see korlash as someone they could get lynched much more easily than mexal. In fact, mafia would probably then feed us statements like "I guess the mafia wasnt too worried about him., thoughts?"

you have only answered questions about his claim, you have failed to answer twice, about your thoughts on Korlash, for there is more to him than his claim.

What are you saying, since I said that, I must be scum? Where is your vote on me then?

[curiouskarmadog]

Why do you want me to vote you so badly? Tell me why you are a better candidate than jitsu or gunslinger whom I also find scummy, and I'll consider awarding you with my vote.

where did I say I wanted you to vote me? You just implied that scum would probably say something I JUST said...so you must think I am much more than scummy or you wouldnt have said that.....so my question was, if you think I am scum, where is your vote?

so do you find me scummy or not, I am quite confused.

[curiouskarmadog]

adel, I didnt think you could provide links to ongoing games.

[curiouskarmadog]

@ckd: You really have a bad habit of misconstruing what people say. This is probably why you're not the best scum hunter. You do this thing where you pick someone who is actually a townie (though you don't know that until they card flip), and you interpret what they say in a way that will get them to fit into your scum mold. I have seen you do this as town, so no I'm not sure enough about your alignment to vote you. Yes, I think that if scum chose to not kill a power role, they would then be motivated to plant WIFOM arguments like the statement you made, in order to try to get the town to mislynch a power role. Does that mean I know for sure you are scum and that's what you were doing? Nope. You could've said it as town too so why does that mean I HAVE to vote you? As I said, I'm looking at 3 players I find scummy ALL of which I could be wrong about and ALL of which could be scum buddies. I haven't decided which to vote for. You're doing a good job at fighting for the top spot though. Keep it up.

So I should back off questioning you then, before I get to the top of your list? Also, where did I say I wanted you to vote me badly? Where have I misconstrued anything? Between the two of us, who really has misconstrued something? You compared something I said, to something mafia would probably say. (still confused why you did that) I asked you if you thought I could be mafia, why haven’t you voted me yet (or even bring it up at the time I posted it) You then retort with “why do you want me to vote you so badly”…where did I say that? Who is really misconstruing here?

I also think it is interesting how you mentioned our ONE previous game together(which you replaced into). You should also note that we were both town and you agreed with my analysis at the time and your votes reflected mine.

[curiouskarmadog]

One of the things that is bothering me about Korlash is his constant reminders that he is bored, uncaring about this game, or that his impact on this game is quite small, yet he is obviously reading , keeping up, and has regular tabs on the game. Also, his constant joking manner, gives off the feel of someone who is joking to make it look like posting, but has done very little to actually scum hunt. Here are some examples.

And how do I seem angry? A little bored. A small bit tired, yes. And I think I am hungry... I could eat.. but I don;t fee like making a meal right now... Perhaps a snack... Oh but I haven't gone to the store in a while.. I wonder what I have in the fridge.. Oh I could make cookies.. hmmm... Or an apple... I think I have apples in there...

joke, no content

@ jitsu: Realize I am not intentionally ignoring you here. I guess it can;t hurt to hear from

everyone

before I answer your question. However I don;t think my answer is really going to make a difference one way or another. ><

poor little Korlash

What? You don't want to meta me? =D That doesn't put me in the center of attention so I am against it! Kidding...

@ Adel: Oh... I will break that.. I will break it so hard... and then reassemble it backwards! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

jokes.

I don't know if Anata abandoning the game is a scum tell or a just a newb tell- mafia is far less fun for most people when there is a wagon on you. Role and alignment doesn't change that much.

I don't know... I personally think that is when it gets really fun! It all comes down to how good you are at convincing people you are right and others are wrong, and if you are mafia, it comes down to how good you can lie! Then you get into other things, how long can you keep your "role" hidden. (Vanilla, mafa, powerrole, Sk, etc...) How can you come back from a crushing blow, what kind of defenses can you come up with on a moments notice, how good you are at throwing other's attacks back at them!

=D It's like a day at the beach... if all your friends wanted you dead and you had a laptop with you!

If you thought it was really fun, why did you come out so early with the roleblocker claim. Shouldn’t you have just defended yourself a little more, push a case on someone else, or simply picked apart a case against you? No, you chose to end the “fun” by claiming your powerful role at –3.

but he's claimed Roleblocker, so I don't understand why there's still four votes on him.

Yeah but they all seem to think I meant "mafia Roleblocker" or whatever that is... I am not a prostitute! (Well... maybe on the weekends...)

Still there is usually something to that "claim early" thing they keep using at me so i guess that is why I still have so many votes. I don't really mind the votes I just think they could be used elsewhere. But at least people are actively attacking the actives I guess... (Can't get much more active then me can you? XD Well maybe if you jack a rabbit up on crack and Redbull i guess...)

Oh look, the votes on Korlash doesn’t really bother him, if you didnt really mind the votes, why claim at -3?. And then there is this. “Yeah but they all seem to think I meant "mafia Roleblocker" or whatever that is” Whatever that is??? So you don’t have a clue what a mafia roleblocker is? Please explain “or whatever that is” means.

yeah I am intentionally littering the thread with useless stuff. You have caught on to my master plan! Oh noes! [/sarcasm]

yes, yes I think you are….I am not going to list all of his jokes here…his jokes are plentiful and pointless.

I don;t care about being the NK, as I said before I find this role to be otherwise useless overall. I could hurt the town far more then I could help it. Granted I could prevent the NK too but I am not that good a player at RaF and so it would all be a matter of luck for me to do so.

Better I die then the doc/cop/tracker/vig... Or that is how I see it.

we got it, you don’t care if you die.

Oh well... I don't mind being the sacrificial lamb today I suppose.. better then losing the Doc or Cop at least... I wasn't even going to bother with my role anyways as I find it more or less pointless... Unless I choose correctly... and knowing me I woudl choose the cop and that would just suck.. "Congratulations! You have successfully blocked the cop! You are the worst towny ever!"

Right right, sacrificial lamb, got it.

You werent even going to bother with your role? I wonder if in the decoded message you left earlier today, we will discover that he did indeed bother with his role and block someone.

But I admit today is getting rather boring isn't it...

Forget it... I'm getting tired of this game...

Shoulda went into lurker mode a week ago... Seriously debating it now...

OK, so I don’t really have the time to post all the times he lets us know that he is bored, and I definitely don’t have enough time to post the jokes. But they are there.


Another things have stuck out to me too (during reading his posts).

Besides my role is just "Roleblocker" It does not say town in it.. however it does say "Pro-Town" so... yeah... I suppose I am town, but I didn't feel it was necessary to actually say it... I mean does the cop have to say "I am a town cop!" ? Does the Doc have to say "I am a town Doc!" ? No? I didn't think so...

I thought this was interesting when I read it. Are you saying that your PM did not have the word “town” in it other than saying you were pro-town?

[curiouskarmadog]

Ok that was a start Korlash, try answering the rest of the questions this time, also some follow up.

I don’t care who brought up the fact you were at –3 first, I want to know.

If you thought it was really fun, why did you come out so early with the roleblocker claim.

Shouldn’t you have just defended yourself a little more, push a case on someone else, or simply picked apart a case against you?

No, you chose to end the “fun” by claiming your powerful role at –3.

please answer

please answer

but he's claimed Roleblocker, so I don't understand why there's still four votes on him.

Yeah but they all seem to think I meant "mafia Roleblocker" or whatever that is... I am not a prostitute! (Well... maybe on the weekends...)

And then there is this. “Yeah but they all seem to think I meant "mafia Roleblocker" or whatever that is” Whatever that is??? So you don’t have a clue what a mafia roleblocker is? Please explain “or whatever that is” means.

Out of my whole post I wanted you to answer this the most, why did you not answer it? Please answer it now.

You werent even going to bother with your role? I wonder if in the decoded message you left earlier today, we will discover that he did indeed bother with his role and block someone.

Any comments about this? I don’t want to know who you blocked, I want to know if you blocked..if you did, please explain this comment and why you chose to block.

I thought this was interesting when I read it. Are you saying that your PM did not have the word “town” in it other than saying you were pro-town?

No it also had the "You win when the town fulfils it's win condition" thing (MY own words)

It did not say blatantly "YOU ARE TOWN" it said... In my own words >.> <.<

"YOU ARE A ROLEBLOCKER! YOU ARE PRO-TOWN"

this was a very direct question here that is not asking you to quote a PM. I asked you if the PM said the word “town” other than saying you are “pro-town”. You answered “no” then state, but then say it says “you win when the town fulfills it’s win condition” (your words)…now, does it use the word “town” or not in the PM?


Also, why do you keep telling us how bored you are with the game, when you are obviously keeping active tabs on this game? Are you still willing to be the “sacrificial lamb”?

[curiouskarmadog]

Now if you have some point to this line of questioning please explain. And if you pull an Adel I swear I will give up on this game.

No you wont.

No, at the time I did not even know there was a mafia RB. I had read about it in the wiki so long ago, but it never stuck in my mind. I have read it up and I am insulted you all thought I was a prostitute... geeze... jerks...

Vote Korlash,

For Meta reasons (who said meta was worthless), this is an out and out lie. Caught you scum bag.

Also, surprised with all of Adel’s meta, she didn’t catch this, interesting.

[curiouskarmadog]

well, I am sure that you would like me to explain further so I get mod killed.

during my reread (after finding out you werent killed in the night) I saw the comment indicating that you didnt know what there was such a thing as a mafia role blocker..I noticed the date of that statement. I asked you again, if you want us to believe that you didnt know that there was such a thing as a mafia roleblocker. You said just now, at the time (I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you met at the time of the original statement) that you didnt.

I meta-ed (yes I know what it means)..and found that you do indeed know.

I encourage everyone to investigate his lie on your own.

[curiouskarmadog]

come on OMGUS vote me. I dare you

[curiouskarmadog]

I wont OMGUS that. I acknowledge there was something similar to this happening at the exact same time in another.. what is the word.. forum activity

But if you do plan on holding that against me I would like you to carefully check those dates again. If you want to hold me to it fine, but your case holds more weight on the other.. activity... as it happened AFTER the one on this... activity...

Hmmm... Pushing It I think... Isn't this the game we keep getting in trouble for doing this? ...

I have half a mind to wipe this post clean... But I don't think the mod can honestly kill me and leave you... so... Ehh I'll risk it...

Simple version. your mistaken.

LOL, so you know what I am talking about then (and only 9 minutes to reply) ...like I said, others can meta and compare dates if they so desire.

my vote isnt just on that..(that was the proverbial feather),

I simply do not buy your claim, your "boredom", or the fact you dont care if people vote you either.

[curiouskarmadog]

vote Korlash

good job ckd.

your vote was already on him.

but thanks, I guess.

[curiouskarmadog]

"do I have a life" says the guy playing on online forum game. you know we have caught you so you have to result to insults...classy.

for those who will meta. this is the post where he indicated (and just reconfirmed) that he didnt know what a mafia RB was..

but he's claimed Roleblocker, so I don't understand why there's still four votes on him.

Yeah but they all seem to think I meant "mafia Roleblocker" or whatever that is... I am not a prostitute! (Well... maybe on the weekends...)

post 644, dated 11/14


also reposting again his (re)confirming that he did not know what a mafia RB was. Ignore the joke, but I guess we are used to doing that by now.

No, at the time I did not even know there was a mafia RB. I had read about it in the wiki so long ago, but it never stuck in my mind. I have read it up and I am insulted you all thought I was a prostitute... geeze... jerks...

[curiouskarmadog]

If I am reading CKD correctly, the other part of this is that CKD has some strong circumstantial evidence from another game (which we cannot talk about because it is ongoing), that suggests you may be lying in this one. I believe I found what CKD was talking about. I did very little reading, and it is possible to find it without actually reading any of your posts. Do you agree with that assessment, CKD?

yes reading his posts and looking at the dates are really all that is needed to know that he had knowledge of a mafia roleblocker, previous to his 644 statement "mafia roleblocker, or whatever that is" (paraphrasing I think)..however, if I encourage everyone to read his posts in that game too.

[curiouskarmadog]

GunslingerKB has posted very little substance and his continued absence is dangerous for the town if we allow him to live while leaving very little trail.

I would be willing to lynch either of them today. I think there is more evidence for a Korlash lynch but I could be persuaded to make it GunslingerKB, since he is giving us so much less to work with.

Yesterday I didnt think we should have lynched Korlash, mostly because I thought the mafia would have NKed, him....but after this evidence of his lies, he is most definitely the lynch today.

I still am suspicious of Gun, but if he is going to be replaced, there is no point yet. I want to hit scum today, and I think korlash is the way to go.

I am interested in what Ole Set, thinks about all of this.

"not a good scum hunter" my ass.

[curiouskarmadog]

Ok, getting my bird on. Will have light posts for the rest of the day, then I wont return until Monday...posting it all of my games

vote stays, Korlash is scum

[curiouskarmadog]

back, reading how the end of the lynch went down.

[curiouskarmadog]

interesting....going to reread a bit, but the type of activity today is quite interesting.

[curiouskarmadog]

It should be noted that Set is at –2 now.

Jistu to answer your question: I haven’t liked Set since…

this was directed to Set, guess he missed it the first time.

What are your thoughts on Korlash? You think he is our town RB then? Reasons? I guess the mafia wasnt too worried about him., thoughts?

Then,

I guess you missed where I've already addressed that.

i've seen no reason to doubt his claim. I've never played a game that had a mafia roleblocker but several of my games have had town roleblockers.

I think Flay has a point that the mafia would see korlash as someone they could get lynched much more easily than mexal. In fact, mafia would probably then feed us statements like "I guess the mafia wasnt too worried about him., thoughts?"

Set decided he wanted to attack me and insinuate that I was mafia, instead of fully addressing my question about Korlash.

you have only answered questions about his claim, you have failed to answer twice, about your thoughts on Korlash, for there is more to him than his claim.

What are you saying, since I said that, I must be scum? Where is your vote on me then?

@ckd: Though I find korlash's defense of anata odd for the same reasons I find your defense of anata odd, I am not willing to lynch a claimed power role.

Why do you want me to vote you so badly? Tell me why you are a better candidate than jitsu or gunslinger whom I also find scummy, and I'll consider awarding you with my vote.

Here he is not willing to lynchd a claimed power role (as we know that changes has it becomes obvious that Korlash will be lynched)

Then we have

@ckd: You really have a bad habit of misconstruing what people say. This is probably why you're not the best scum hunter. You do this thing where you pick someone who is actually a townie (though you don't know that until they card flip), and you interpret what they say in a way that will get them to fit into your scum mold. I have seen you do this as town, so no I'm not sure enough about your alignment to vote you. Yes, I think that if scum chose to not kill a power role, they would then be motivated to plant WIFOM arguments like the statement you made, in order to try to get the town to mislynch a power role. Does that mean I know for sure you are scum and that's what you were doing? Nope. You could've said it as town too so why does that mean I HAVE to vote you? As I said, I'm looking at 3 players I find scummy ALL of which I could be wrong about and ALL of which could be scum buddies. I haven't decided which to vote for. You're doing a good job at fighting for the top spot though. Keep it up.

Here he says I am a bad scum hunter and basically threatens me to back off. Where do you stand on this now Korlash is found to be scum?

Also you never addressed this.

I also think it is interesting how you mentioned our ONE previous game together(which you replaced into). You should also note that we were both town and you agreed with my analysis at the time and your votes reflected mine.

Jitsu, it was Set’s attitude yesterday that I didn’t like and is overall ignoring stance on Korlash, that is why I posted my Korlash case I said.

I am interested in what Ole Set, thinks about all of this.

"not a good scum hunter" my ass.

I support a set lynch, but there is a couple other things I need to find in the reread that before I vote(no time now)..not to mention I would like to hear from others, and Gun’s replacement if we get one.

[curiouskarmadog]

Hey noobs and...CKD...JESUS!

Whatever, I'm reading, will post, but its like, 30 pages of your childish bickering.

See you soon.

drats oman again!!!

good luck, looking forward (some what) to you prespective on the game.

Set, is that the only thing that you think needs address from my post?

[curiouskarmadog]

@CKD: I sense that you're wanting me to admit I was wrong about your scum hunting ability. Ok, I admit it. After that game where we were masons together, I thought you were the worst scum hunter ever. Nice guy, but you were wrong about everyone you suspected. You had elaborate, convincing cases on several townies that you pushed until you finally got them mislynched. (Am I wrong about this?) Your hunch that korlash was scum made me think he was probably town.

I don't believe that you were bussing korlash, and you have redeemed yourself as far as my assumptions about you went. You were right about korlash, and you were right about Anata when you defended her. Apology accepted?

I guess my problem with you is that you decided to bring up this one game (which I did mislynch two people, but also hammered a scum as well) you and I played in, and used it to discredit me. Now, you have not metaed any other games to see if I am indeed a horrid scum hunter. You did not mention that you agreed with me at this time of the mislynches and voted as well and you tool barked up the wrong tree many times in that game. You just chose to discredit me...hell you didnt even offered to provide a link to the game you chose to discredit me with. (if anybody wants a link to this ended game, let me know)

I find it interesting that you bring up Korlash. At the time you tried to discredit me, I had not really provided my thoughts on Korlash(nothing more than something is sticking out about him, had to reread). I simply asked you your thoughts on him and his claim. (point of reference, page 30). I was asking you questions about your thoughts, but you decided you wanted to to suggest I was mafia. When I inquired why you had not expressed these suspicious until now (asking where the vote was), you came back with asking why I wanted a vote so badly, threats, and then referencing a game (but not in it's full). So are you saying at this point you thought Korlash was probably town because I thought what exactly?

I find this suspect.

I am not sure what you are apologizing for. For saying I am a bad scum hunter or the fact that you tried to discredit me, without providing ALL of the facts from that game.

if it is for the first, it is accepted, though I am not admitting that I am a great scum hunter, I am still a student of the game, but to say I am a bad scum hunter was uncalled for...and I am curious what prompted you to "go there".

if it is the latter, well, that is a different story all together.

[curiouskarmadog]

I appreciate you unvoting to avoid a quicklynch, even though I agree that is unlikely. If I get to -1, I will expect to be allowed to claim, though I will not do so before -1.

LOL, this does seem Korlash-ish...now I want to hear the claim..saying this is just going to make people push to put you to -1

[curiouskarmadog]

I appreciate you unvoting to avoid a quicklynch, even though I agree that is unlikely. If I get to -1, I will expect to be allowed to claim, though I will not do so before -1.

LOL, this does seem Korlash-ish...now I want to hear the claim..saying this is just going to make people push to put you to -1

also, why would you not just wait till -1 to claim, what was the motivation behind posting this? All decent mafia players know to wait at -1 for a claim.

[curiouskarmadog]

This is exactly I was talking about when I was trying to explain the meta. It was possible to find this out by simply reading the first (summary) post of all the games Korlash was involved in. There was no need to even read any of Korlash's posts. Given some things CKD said, I'm guessing that he may have found something else by actually reading Korlash's posts.

I'm not sure what to make of this, because all of this, plus the contradiction Setael found between posts 521 and 585 in this game, were sitting out in plain sight long, long before CKD posted about finding the meta.

Given what Korlash said in 521 and 585, Adel had more evidence of Korlash's lie sitting in her hands! But instead she decided to unvote. After a reread, the paragraph above where Adel takes back her conclusion and unvotes sounds really strange to me.


Again, I'm not sure what to make of this yet, because it seems like a lot of the players (myself included) just missed this.

sweet chirst, I missed it too. Adel, said the exact same thing I found (mostly excluding dates and post reads from another game), but the heart of it was there.

Good catch jitsu, I need to go back and read the timing of these posts.

[curiouskarmadog]

while I am checking dates and post numbers
Jitsu, curious about your thoughts on Set's comments about claiming at -1...seems like she wants us to think there is something to claim....thoughts?

also set again did not address my post and questions...I will repost it and bold my questions or statements I would like to hear comments on.

I guess my problem with you is that you decided to bring up this one game (which I did mislynch two people, but also hammered a scum as well) you and I played in, and used it to discredit me. Now, you have not metaed any other games to see if I am indeed a horrid scum hunter. You did not mention that you agreed with me at this time of the mislynches and voted as well and you tool barked up the wrong tree many times in that game. You just chose to discredit me...hell you didnt even offered to provide a link to the game you chose to discredit me with. (if anybody wants a link to this ended game, let me know)

I find it interesting that you bring up Korlash.

At the time you tried to discredit me, I had not really provided my thoughts on Korlash(nothing more than something is sticking out about him, had to reread). I simply asked you your thoughts on him and his claim. (point of reference, page 30).

I was asking you questions about your thoughts, but you decided you wanted to to suggest I was mafia. When I inquired why you had not expressed these suspicious until now (asking where the vote was), you came back with asking why I wanted a vote so badly, threats, and then referencing a game (but not in it's full).

So are you saying at this point you thought Korlash was probably town because I thought what exactly?

I find this suspect.

I am not sure what you are apologizing for.

For saying I am a bad scum hunter or the fact that you tried to discredit me, without providing ALL of the facts from that game.

if it is for the first, it is accepted, though I am not admitting that I am a great scum hunter, I am still a student of the game, but to say I am a bad scum hunter was uncalled for...

and I am curious what prompted you to "go there".

if it is the latter, well, that is a different story all together.

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD, I have responded to all of this. See posts 828 and 834.

No you have not, please explain (or repost) why you are bringing up Korlash in post 834, in reference to the discussion about you discrediting me. At the time, you tried to discredit me, I had not mentioned my opinion on Korlash yet. WE were talking about you. You chose to discredit me, because I was then focusing on you and not Korlash.

When you said in 834

Your hunch that korlash was scum made me think he was probably town.

Korlash has nothing to do with my post 738 or 742, or your attempt to discredit me in post 745. They were about you and why you weren’t answering questions (much like now). Why are you talking about my hunch of Korlash? What hunch did I post before 738, other then I need to read a bit more on him? I want to know why you decided to bring up Korlash in 834, when the context of you discrediting was about you and me, not Korlash.

Unless of course you were defending Korlash when you tried to discredit me in 745, is that the case?

You also didn’t answer the question, why did you try to discredit me without providing all the information fully or even providing a link. You deliberately misrepresented me, and I want to know why. I also want to know why when I asked you about Korlash, you tried to deflect and suggest I was scum and then later threaten me.

Also, why did you decide to bring up that I am a bad scum hunter in general. I was just asking questions.

LOL, this does seem Korlash-ish...now I want to hear the claim..saying this is just going to make people push to put you to -1

Interesting reaction. I would expect townies to NOT push me to -1 just to hear a claim.

again with the insinuations. Set, if you think I am scum, put a case forward, and quit hiding behind, threats and suggestions.

Am I pushing you to claim? Am I even voting you right now? No, we are just having conversation. All I said is after that post, I want to hear your claim. Before that post, I would have waited at –1, but now you see fit to remind us to wait, I am curious now. human nature does not equal scummy. Can you provide a link to any of your ended games that you made such a statement before (because surely if you don’t have faith in players in this game and you don’t have faith in players in other games) Or am I going to have to meta you too?

[curiouskarmadog]

I want to hear from Flay

[curiouskarmadog]

basically yeah...I woud like to hear those three's comments on the game thus far today...in addition, I would like to hear Oman's comments on the game as a whole...

[curiouskarmadog]

I am starting to really like the town's chances of winning this game. Yes, I am keeping quiet at this point, but since I am pretty close to the top of each player's "most townie" list, I don't want to provide cover for scum to hide behind, especially as part of a buss. I think I know who the next scum is, but I'm still having trouble identifying the probable third.

wish I shared your optimism. Why are you just now starting to like our chances? Has something occurred that I have missed? Are you going to give us some insight into who you think our scum is? Also, was this just a post to essentially say “I am here”?

[curiouskarmadog]

also FYI

Also anata’s other game (the one she kept while letting this one go) has ended…she was vanilla town.

[curiouskarmadog]

I would guess that Oman or curiouskarmadog are the third.

based on what?

[curiouskarmadog]

interesting...so many people are saying things that they dont really mean...

[curiouskarmadog]

like

wish I shared your optimism.

?

no, I mean that..I wish I shared your optmism

[curiouskarmadog]

well, maybe you and Adel know more than I do..but I am currently at a loss who scum might be..I would rather not have another mislynch.

[curiouskarmadog]

and what kind of post from Oman will warrant everyone's unvote? Posting and providing content are two different things...I will assume that the vote on Oman is to get him to provide content..

please (for the ones currently voting for Oman or pledging to vote if he doesnt post) tell me what your definition of "content" is.

I think it is important we get that out now...also Oman is at -2....I dont think we should proceed with lynching until Oman at least gets a prod.
.

[curiouskarmadog]

been prodded.

vote Jerubbaal

for being a hyprocrite and bandwagoner.not much to comment on at this point.

[curiouskarmadog]

what is your case against Flay?

[curiouskarmadog]

this is just a side note and doesnt mean much at the moment.

I am almost positive that I have seen people say lines like "I will not remove my vote" before as communication in game to their scum partner.

Now, the reason I am not even FoSing is 1.) I am skimming through my old games to find this and not having much luck, 2.) To me, just seems too obvious, and 3.) the only other game that I played with Adel she was scum and we spent 40+ pages going back and forth with each other which resulted in me getting mislynched, translation, I am bias.

Jer, reading your case against flay now...repsonse to you (and Jitsu) coming when I get more time.

[curiouskarmadog]

what is your case against Flay?

can you please restate your case against Flay, jerb?

[curiouskarmadog]

unvote

changed mind...watching what comes out of the Adel/Jerb/Flay conversation before (re)voting.

[curiouskarmadog]

unvote

changed mind...watching what comes out of the Adel/Jerb/Flay conversation before (re)voting.

still here..still waiting

[curiouskarmadog]

hmmm, guess jeb/adel/flay are done?

[curiouskarmadog]

@CKD:

I'd like you to comment on the Flay/Adel/Jerub interaction and say what you think. I'd also like to know where your suspicions lie.

dont really know what to think about the F/A/J interaction. I am not liking any of three, but really can not put my finger on why. Also not a huge fan of Set's play this game, but dont think she is the lynch today (but my mind could change). I feel like Jitsu is town....nothing else at the moment is sticking out to me.

[curiouskarmadog]

I didnt jump on the Set wagon because of the speed it began....that being said, I probably would have voted Set before the string of votes.

[curiouskarmadog]

I will be gone until the 26th. Also giving you the heads up, I am in a ton of games so it might be slow going updating all the games I am in, but I will get to it when I get back.

Thanks for the entertainment, I hope you and yours have a good holiday.

[curiouskarmadog]

I am back (no need to prod)...will get caught up in the next couple of days.

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm here. I keep thinking I'm waiting for more arguments and defenses from Mr. Flay, Adel and Oman, but I don't think any are coming. As it stands despite not suspecting him at all coming into the day, Mr. Flay is my top suspect, followed by Setael.

please provide 2-3 reasons why Flay is now your top suspect.

Also, why did feel it was important to let us know, going into today, you didnt suspect fflay at all.

[curiouskarmadog]

I think Adel came off a bit better in their exchange. Like most things, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong.

comments like this is why I am not currently putting flay at -1..this sort of smells like he is covering his ass if/when flay turns out town.

of course, he is also throwing suspicion on Flay without actually voting him too.....


I dont like flay's reaction to Sudo either..

ugh..

[curiouskarmadog]

I have not voted because I am not certian...or really even leaning one way or the other on the two vote leaders.

I truly sit upon this fence as will my vote for now.

[curiouskarmadog]

Mainly, I don't want to screw up the deadline lynch. I'm not sure if that's possible, since it would require a fairly construed series of events. However, I'll formalize it, if you want.

Vote: Setael

how does you voting for Setael screw up the dead line lynch when you werent voting anyone to begin with?

[curiouskarmadog]

Let's get lynchin' people. The spectators are becoming bored.

Mod: I think a deadline might be needed now.

That added pressure might be telling.

[curiouskarmadog]

nope, but I think that it will. you currently scared of a deadline?

[curiouskarmadog]

edit:"..I think it will help."

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm picking up slight scumvibes from CKD here, mostly the fence sitting that I've seen him do as scum before (Baby too much scum).

If Adel is town, he'll be my first to look at.

Really Oman? I encourage everyone to read this game that Oman is quoting..not only did I do very little fence sitting, I was quite aggressive. Oman where in that game was a fence sitting? here is a little WIFOM to chew on...why do you even know I am fence sitting? Because I told you.

I dont want to vote for either of the vote leaders because I dont really support either of their lynches at the moment and would rather see how people react to a.) the fact I told you I am fence sitting and b.) a deadline.

Case in point, Oman thinks Adel is scum (thus the vote) but puts in the disclaimer that if Adel is town, I will be the first he will look at. Oman why dont you provide the same disclaimer for Flay? This lack of comment sort of makes me want to vote Flay now...but..What if Adel or Flay come up scum, am I scum then too?

...This sounds like you know Adel is town and once she comes up town, you have begun laying the ground work for another lynch based on the fact that I am told you I was fence sitting. Interesting. You also are misrepresenting a game that I was scum to suggest I am scum here...I encourage everyone to read that game and answer the question "did I ever fence sit in that game or was a mostly super aggressive?"

scummy suggestions Oman, scummy suggestions.

vote Oman

I would like everyone to comment on Oman's last post. Interesting to hear other's thoughts...mostly Adel and Flay

[curiouskarmadog]

wait you dont think Flay is town either?

[curiouskarmadog]

AA are you aware that puts Flay at -1.

does that bother you? Your vote is on Flay dont you want him to hang? What was the motivation behind asking AA this? There was a damn vote count above his post, I am pretty sure he knew he was putting Flay at -1.

I also find it suspicious that Jerb mentions that Flay's alignment doesnt matter twice in his is last post.

unvote

this is why I am on the fence here...On one hand I have Oman saying all types of scummy things that could link him to flay and set...on the other, I have a Jer and adel pairing that makes posts like their last that make me wonder what their motivation was.

the only person I feel is town is Jitsu.

but to keep thing interesting..

vote Adel

and yeah, I know it puts you at -1.

so Flay (and adel) being at -1...do you care to claim?

[curiouskarmadog]

what makes you think that I put adel at -1 JUST to make her claim? Seems like a jump in logic.

I think claims are good...how do you think we caught Korlash in his lie...now settle down AA and quit pushing crap.

[curiouskarmadog]

accidental hammers means (most likely) someone hammered a townie but used the excuse they didnt know the vote count. Why would you care if someone "accidentally" hammered someone you want us to believe YOU think is most likely scum?

[curiouskarmadog]

Whilst

a "wion" is like a "win", but with more celebration...

that made me laugh. Onto the game:

If Adel is in fact claiming cop I will jump on Flay.

I do not believe Adel to be an isane cop because this explains her work on Korlash: cop with guilty. It also explains why she dropped the case of Jer (she had a guilty on someone else).

I'm going to get slammed for this: Adel, I'd like to know either way.

Adel, have you soft claimed cop or not....if you did, is that why you attacked Korlash yesterday? Is that why you are attacking Flay today?

I dont think she is insane, if she got the guilty on Korlash yesterday.

Personally I dont think she has claimed anything so my vote stays.

[curiouskarmadog]

well if I am reading this correct, Oman just dropped the hammer..so we are in twilight....some of our questions will be answered shortly..HOPEFULLY, tomorrow, we will have more questions answered. I also hope we have a repeat of last night's lack of kill. If we have a doc, I think they chose wisely with their protection.

[curiouskarmadog]

going to reread.

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm picking up slight scumvibes from CKD here, mostly the fence sitting that I've seen him do as scum before (Baby too much scum).

If Adel is town, he'll be my first to look at.

also, interested to hear what comes of this next.

[curiouskarmadog]

Vote: Abstract Actuary

I’m the cop. Last night was the first time I hit scum. N1 I investigated Mexal and N2 I got an innocent on Sudo.

I thought about investigating Adel last night, but after yesterday I thought it would be a wasted investigation since I was sure Adel was scum when Flay came up town. Instead I investigated AA, and I was right. He’s scum.

well now that is an interesting claim. Did you leave any bread crumbs? Because I am the cop. Now I doubt there are two cops in a 12 person game. I also got a guilty last night and it was not AA. So if what Set says is true, we have a 3 person scum group with no God Father. I sort of doubt this. Or a Miller, but I doubt that too...or the mafia have some way of screwing with our investigations...also doubtful/

N1, I investigated Korlash (Set, any reason you didnt investigate Korlash after his claim?) got the guilty. N2, I investigated Jitsu, because he was not on the Korlash Lynch..he was innocent. Last night I got a guilty (again)

Vote jerbubball

!!!

I dont believe Set's claim.

Will provide the crumbs when I have time..got to head to work, but feel free to look them up for yourself...they are not hidden.

[curiouskarmadog]

..also...we could have a 4 person scum team (with a god father)..but that soudns too big for a 12 person game.

[curiouskarmadog]

they are not crumbs in the sense that I hid, "I am cop"..but more comments I said, if I should have been night killed....like "I feel Jitsu is town" when I havent said that about anyone the whole game. I thought Adel was claiming cop yesterday so that is why I rode her about that...of course, I immeidately went after Korlash (having the guilty it was easy, so I guess I cant take credit for being a good scum hunter) and that is when I found his lie...oh yeah, I think that I was protected N2 (NO REASON TO CONFIRM THIS DOC!!!!) and that is why I made my comment at the end of the day, yesterday.


at any rate, I will provide all these quotes and "crumbs" later today in order so they make sense. I dont know if Set is telling the truth or not, but I dont understand why mafia would claim when there are 7 people left....unless they have 3 member left..but a 4 man mafia team in a 12 person game seems insane.

Personally, I dont believe the claim...but I am not 100%.

has anyone ever seen a 12 person game with 2 cops? also, if Set is telling the truth..most likely we had a 4 person mafia group, anyone seen that?

got to work

[curiouskarmadog]

and if we have a 4 person mafia group (we have 3 left) and we are at lylo.

[curiouskarmadog]

ok my meeting was pushed back an hour.

Oman, I dont agree with you. All things constant, I can understand a jer., then Set lynch, but why dont we wait to see what Night actions (tonight) information develop. Also I count 7 people, not 6 (Oman, CKD, Set, AA, Jerb, Sudo, and Jitsu.)

AA, Set can not be an insane cop, she said she got an innocent on Mex, and we all know Mex was a town. Furthermore, I cant be insane either, because I got a guilty on Korlash.

Jerb, if I am lying..then Set must be telling the truth and AA is scum. Why arent you voting AA with Set?..why are you voting me instead?

[curiouskarmadog]

Set, I asked you why you didn’t investigate Korlash. Not why you investigate Mex. He almost hung Day 1 and then claimed RB, you didn’t find this investigation worthy? So you dont have any breadcrumbs? Also Set, if you really thought there were only two more scum out there, why did you feel it was important to claim right now? You could have tried to push a case against AA, see who believed it..who didnt, maybe even get more information. Wouldnt that be important to find out who agreed with your case? Who voted for little to no reason?

THERE WAS NO REASON TO CLAIM COP AT THE BEGINNING OF THE DAY! This was a plan that was hatched last night and excuted poorly. You really need to ask yourself why Set isnt scum hunting or at least trying to get more information for the town.

Jitsu, like I said they were not breadcrumbs as much as actions which I hope proves I am indeed the cop, because today is an important lynch.

Night 1, I investigated Korlash because did not believe his claim. Once I got the investigation result (Korlash was scum) I immediately started digging for who bought the claim and would supported it openly.

This was the 5th post (my 1st) on Day 2.

I can not believe that Mitzef was town.....

are we now assuming that the RB is indeed town aligned?

going to reread...

At this point, there was no need to claim, but I had to come up with a case against Korlash that was solid. When I read his posts in a vacuum and meta-ed him I discovered his mistruths and caught him in the lie. I was distracted by Set early Day 2, and her avoidance of answering questions about Korlash…I believe this is where she began insulting me…cant remember. At any rate, I start pushing my case against Korlash and put the second vote on him. Of course Set and Jerb where the last votes on Korlash.

Night 2, I was stuck between deciding to investigate Jerb for his bus like vote or Jitsu, who didn’t vote for Korlash at all. I went with Jitsu, and got the innocent.

Call me narcissistic, but I have a feeling that the doc protected me that night because I was after Korlash out of the gate when others (to include Set) ignored him, thus no night kill.

Now at this point, I didn’t have a clue who might be scum (thus why I openly admitted to fence sitting) because if I was Nked Night 3, I wanted people to know that I didn’t get another guilty.

I have not voted because I am not certian...or really even leaning one way or the other on the two vote leaders.

I truly sit upon this fence as will my vote for now.

As the Day grew to a close, I felt it important that if I was Nked I wanted people to know who I got the innocent on. Thus…

the only person I feel is town is Jitsu.

I figured that would stick out because I put it in a sentence by itself AND it was an unprovoked statement about someone being town (which I hardly ever do).

Yesterday, I went out of my way to find out if adel was claiming cop or not.

Adel, have you soft claimed cop or not....if you did, is that why you attacked Korlash yesterday? Is that why you are attacking Flay today?

I figured if she claimed cop, I would have found myself another scum, and I might have come out then…but she didn’t. I guess the mafia didn’t believe it because they offed her last night.

Before the Day ended, I wanted the doc to protect me again so I could get another investigation in and that is why I said.

well if I am reading this correct, Oman just dropped the hammer..so we are in twilight....some of our questions will be answered shortly..HOPEFULLY, tomorrow, we will have more questions answered. I also hope we have a repeat of last night's lack of kill. If we have a doc, I think they chose wisely with their protection.

Last night, I went with Jer instead..and I got the guilty. I wasn’t going to come out with it and just build a case like I did against Korlash hopefully getting more information for us..but then Set claimed…Now, we got two scum today.

I think Jer should be our first lynch. I will most likely investigate AA tonight….depending on that investigation result is, will dictate who we should lynch tomorrow (set or ?) We still have the possibility of a GF out there. I am just hoping that Set was stupid enough to pull that stunt as the GF.

[curiouskarmadog]

Do you mind me asking whether you indend to invesitgate Setael tonight?

I dont want to go into who i plan on investigating tonight...it is good to keep everyone on their toes.

[curiouskarmadog]

so your defense is I am bussing YET another mafia player right off the bat to get in BETTER with the town who already thinks I am very pro town and you are just a bad cop.

well like Korlash, I guess I should meta you to see if you have been a cop before...or at least insulted a cop's play.

[curiouskarmadog]

I was pretty stressed that first night since I was rushed to finish the thread and because Anata had been under so much suspicion. This is my first time as cop so I didn't have any experience to go on.

Ok had some time to meta, only quoting ended games. I found that Set has a lot of experience dealing with cops and has express that she has a firm grasp of the theory of being a cop. So I am calling bullshit on her.

Since the games is locked, I cant pull the quotes, but you can look at them for yourselves if you want to know the exact context they were in. I have provided the game, page number, and post to make it easy for you.


Open 43 Post 772: Page 31 Set said.

“I don't think that thinktank should tell us who the innocent investigation was on AT ALL today since it just narrows down for scum who the doc is and it'd be sweet if they guess wrong tonight.”

Here Set demonstrates that he understands that thinktank (claimed cop) should not reveal his innocent investigations because it “narrows down for scum” who the doc is. Well most likely we have a doc in the house. SO ask yourself why did Set decide she wanted to tell US what her innocent investigations were without being provoked to do so?

Same game Post 720 Page 29 Set said…

“It bites the cop had to be outed in order to get this lynch but no one was agreeing so I don't blame thinktank for claiming.”

Here Set demonstrates he understands that the cop should remain hidden as long as possible. This occurred in Day 2 of this game. Thinktank was being pressured and had to claim. Set knows he should stay hidden, why didn’t she do that in our game?

This doesn’t really mean anything but I found it funny. Mini 480 Page 20 post 491, Set said

“Question. Does a mini ALWAYS have a cop and a doc or is it possible those roles didn't exist in the first place, leaving scum safe to claim them without being counter claimed?”

now to this.

The only thing that makes sense is there are 3 scum left. Which means if I'm mislynched today we lose. If we lynch any of the 3 scum we have a chance. I would obviously prefer AA or ckd, but I think it's highly likely jerubbaal is the 3rd and would vote him as well.

So now Set wants you to believe that she is inexperienced and didn’t know how to handle being a cop. Seems to me anyone that is pro-town (inexperienced or no) would have waited a bit to get a little more information. Again, there was absolutely no reason to come out the way she did. Now she is going to push that there are 3 scum left AA, Jerb, and myself must be the scum. She also wants you to swallow that I not only bussed Korlash out of the gate Day 2, but I am bussing Jerb Day 4. She wants you to think we are in lylo, that I am scum, that Jerb is also scum, and SHE IS OK WITH VOTING JERB, who I said is scum. Wow.

Set, you got to be embarrassed.

That being said, I forgive you for your insults earlier in this game. I understand that scum will do anything to win. You had to try to discredit me early, I get it. No hard feelings.

I do not think Set is the lynch today. I want to go with someone I am 99% sure is scum..jerb.

Jerb, I am interested to hear your thoughts on Set’s theory that you are scum with me and AA and I am bussing you....

[curiouskarmadog]

If she really believed early on D3 that the people who

didn't

lynch Korlash (CKD, Oman, and myself) were the most suspicious, why didn't she investigate CKD or me instead of Sudo?

Jitsu, I am sure this is a typo, but I did lynch Korlash..I was the second vote and pushed for his lynch from the beginning of the day because I got a guilty on him.

[curiouskarmadog]

Jerb, please dont avoid this question again.

Jerb, I am interested to hear your thoughts on Set’s theory that you are scum with me and AA and I am bussing you....

Jitsu, I didnt know about the idea at first. If there is a 4 person mafia team, your idea will make us lose. A mislynch today will obviously make us lose, and since I have a guilty on Jerb, I am obviously leaning toward Jerb.

However, the fact that I dont understand why a real cop would have claimed for no reason this early, I have found in my meta that Set has a good handle on cop theory, and just feel like she is being dishonest....I do feel like she is scum. So I will be willing to go along with it, but I would prefer a Jerb lynch.

[curiouskarmadog]

Jesus Christ.

I think most likely there is a 3 person mafia team (meaning that there are only two left). I think the smartest thing we can do (if we are going with Jitsu's plan) is lynch either of the cops. (Set or myself). If one comes up innocent, obviously lynch the other cop. However, if one comes up guilty, lynch the other cop's suspect not the other cop.

I can not see (nor have I ever seen) a mafia group double false claim the same role that could be counterclaimed AGAIN. If after Set and I claimed cop, there was a third claim of a cop, then you can bet your ass 2 of the 3 are scum. Given this game is simply doesnt make sense.

if for some god forsaken reason we had a 4 person mafia team (meaning that there are three left) the smartest thing to do is to lynch the cop's suspects for it is quite possble (again I think this is HIGHLY unlikely) that there could be two cops. Also keep in mind, if we have 3 people left, 1 mislynch means we lose.

Personally I feel like there are only two left that gives us two mislynches before we lose. This is why I feel like we should use my plan (jitsu's of sorts). To put it in other words.

Cop A + Cop's Suspect A
Cop B + Cop's Suspect B

Lynch Cop A, if we get a guilty lynch Cop's Suspect B, if you get an innocent then (and only then) should you lynch Cop B.

or this could happen

Lynch Cop A, if you get an innocent, THEN you should lynch Cop A's Suspect or Cop B. Depending on what the situation is, then next lynch after that should be which ever (Cop's A suspect or Cop B) you didnt lynch.

I dont think you should just lynch both cops back to back no matter the alignment discovered.

What is killing me right now, is I got a damn guilty on Jerb. Unless there is some role that effects my sanity for a night, we have scum correctly identified. I know from your point of view Jitsu, you dont know that I if I am lying or not, but you really need to ask yourself this question..

If I was scum, why the hell would I come out and counter claim cop "just to protect AA"? IF you polled the town yesterday most likely you would find me on top of everyone's town list. I would have no reason to come out. If I was scum, I could have joined the BW (on AA) and easily bus another scum to get even more town cred.

If you want to lynch Set that is fine, but when we get a guilty on Set, you should at least lynch my suspect before lynching me.

[curiouskarmadog]

agreed.

vote Set.

[curiouskarmadog]

I was voting Jerb.

[curiouskarmadog]

well, if it doesnt.

unvote, vote Set

(just in case)

[curiouskarmadog]

If we are in LYLO and Setael is innocent, the Mafia sure is taking their sweet time...

again, I doubt we are in lylo....but both Oman and Sudo have not posted anywhere since the 15th.

[curiouskarmadog]

that being said, Set has posted today, wonder why she is ignoring this game..or not defending herself.

[curiouskarmadog]

that the hammer from Oman (again)..

any last words Set?

[curiouskarmadog]

well, if she is a cop, we have a 4 person mafia team and we just lost. I have seen Set play and she is a strong debater and would have argued us tooth and nail. I have a feeling she is the GF and she is quite embarassed by her claim today, so she is just writing this game off (not really posting). Jerb, it is your ass tomorrow.

[curiouskarmadog]

oh nabnab and your dramatic pause

[curiouskarmadog]

yeah, this has been a huge pain in most of my games

[curiouskarmadog]

the mod has not sent me my results yet..PMing him right now.

[curiouskarmadog]

It was one of the two....no need to go into yet (until I hear from the Mod)...all things remaining constant my vote will be on Jerb today..

my concern right now is that (according to the dead lists) we have not hit a GF yet. I was hoping that Set was the GF, but it didnt list him as such. Now, we got Set and Korlash (korlash I did recieve a guilty on). I got another guilty on Jerb...so that is a mafia team of three right now. However, no GF yet. Now maybe they didnt have a GF, but I dont know.

Hopefully after lynching Jerb today we will win...but it might not be(with a 4 person team)...which means the game will come down to good old fashion scum hunting (who do you believe) type situation with who ever is left.

once I hear from the Mod..I will go further into this.

[curiouskarmadog]

Ok the mod got back to me...I got an innocent on AA.

I wondered if Set was using AA as foder or not, guess not.

vote Jerb

.

hopefully this will be the last mafia.

if not, I am dead tonight. and the GF is left.

[curiouskarmadog]

also, if we do have a 4 person mafia team, I doubt that AA would be the GF.

[curiouskarmadog]

yeah Sudo is the only one I dont have a investigation on.

I think the game will be over once we lnch Jerb, but if we are not and you go into another day tomorrow..a.) I will probably be dead and b.) I dont think people should lay too heavily upon my innocent investigation.

at any rate, I think you are right Jitsu...a 4 person mafia team with a GF seems way to unbalanced.

good game all!

[curiouskarmadog]

Mod: please prod Sudo and AA

[curiouskarmadog]

they might not have realized the game has restarted

[curiouskarmadog]

and here I was so sure I was protected Night 1...guess the world does not revolve around me...did you guys have a GF?

[curiouskarmadog]

thanks Nab..it was a good game

[curiouskarmadog]

pretty good mod..let me know when your next game is...would love to be in it.

[curiouskarmadog]

Also, you analyze more post-game than anyone I've ever met.

qft

[curiouskarmadog]

it wasnt an insult

[curiouskarmadog]

I just cant see why anyone would walk away from a mafia role..lesson learned

Mex, I think this game would have been totally different if you would have survived through N1.

[curiouskarmadog]

I just cant see why anyone would walk away from a mafia role..lesson learned

Mex, I think this game would have been totally different if you would have survived through N1.

Good or bad different?

hard to tell...I am sure you and I would have been bumping heads Day 2 (mostly over mitzef I think)...I think the reason I didnt look at Set (anata) that much was because I couldnt believe someone bailing on a role like that because of "pressure"....at any rate, you were right I was wrong on that account.

note to self: if ever I have the misfortune of being in a game with Anata again.."pressure" the crap out of her.