Mafia 75: Return of the Mafia! TOWN WINS (really late)

[Battle Mage]

wow, what a start. 2 major power roles dead, but the cult recruiter murdered too. Not sure what 'delayed' means. Maybe he couldnt recruit until after a couple days?
Looks like an SK kill anyway. I wonder if that means the cult is dead, or they have another member. If the cult is dead, we can probably assume 2 anti-town killing factions, maybe 2 mafia groups.
Interesting kill choices too. Im not atall surprised by Tar or TJM, but JDGA seems a little strange. Who here has played with him before?

Oh and despite the death of the Cop, I'm going to come forward anyway. I think it was Sir T who said that if you are a miller you should come forward at the earliest opportunity in order to prevent an investigation being wasted. In case we have an additional cop-like role (this is 30 player ppl!) ya know?

oh and finally,

Vote: Khelvaster

BM

[Battle Mage]

Sucks the cop is dead, but yay so is the cult. The delayed recruit will be wandering around tomorrow with no friends. (Survivor is a fun role, right?)

Out of curiousity, why are some of the numbers in the list bolded and some arn't?

Woah. How do you know...

1. There is a cult recruit?
2. This recruit is also 'delayed'?

Unvote, Vote: Nemesis

This is Bandwagon worthy.

BM

[Battle Mage]

random?

[Battle Mage]

Interesting kill choices too. Im not atall surprised by Tar or TJM, but JDGA seems a little strange. Who here has played with him before?

Given that JDGA was a bodyguard, he may not have been targeted at all. I've never played bodyguard, would it be usual to throw out a "blind" protect on night 0?

eh?
Am i wrong in thinking that a Bodyguard is another name for a Doctor?

[Battle Mage]

Sucks the cop is dead, but yay so is the cult. The delayed recruit will be wandering around tomorrow with no friends. (Survivor is a fun role, right?)

Out of curiousity, why are some of the numbers in the list bolded and some arn't?

Woah. How do you know...

1. There is a cult recruit?
2. This recruit is also 'delayed'?

Unvote, Vote: Nemesis

This is Bandwagon worthy.

BM

Wow, BM, way to be an idiot. It's obvious that the cult recruiter would have recruited...why wouldn't he? Also, the delayed cult recruiter, by definition, delays the recruit knowing he was recruited.

Vote: BM

for trying to make a BW without justification.

Its not obvious atall. Firstly his recruitment could have failed and been the cause of his death. Secondly, his recruitment could have failed but not been the cause of his death. Thirdly, he's DELAYED. That indicates that he might not even have been ABLE to recruit.

But, i'm interested to hear about where you have seen the role 'Delayed Cult Recruiter' before. Please link us to a game in which it featured. Also, this is your first and last warning on the insulting front. I know there not a lot of love loss between you and I, but i'd rather if you're town, we dont interfere with each others scumdars in the game, by arguing and getting OMGUSsy. It seems it might be starting already?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Woah. How do you know...

1. There is a cult recruit?
2. This recruit is also 'delayed'?

1: Because while you chose not to assume anything about the delayed recruiter and asked what it could mean, I decided to go another way.

My way is by remembering every "delayed" action I've ever seen means "it happens later", so a delayed SK's kill won't show up until tomorrow, and a delayed cult recruiter won't have their recruitment go through until tomorrow.

Nice idea, but im not sure it would work in practice. I mean, what if the recruit was dead by the time he was actually recruited? The CR then loses that opportunity?
Hmm, the more i think about it, the more i think Jordan might have a role like that.

2: If 1 is true then delayed would be an adjective used to describe the recruit.

For what's it worth, the recruiter is dead, so it isn't me... If I am right then the recruit doesn't know they will be cult yet, so it is as likely to be me as it is likely to be anyone else.

I never accused you of being a recruit, or the recruiter. But you're as much as a possibility as anyone else.

I love how I'm bandwagon worthy btw... You just claimed that someone investigating you will get a guilty result, yet I am the scummy one?

I've claimed Miller. Mainly because thats my role. Very occassionally i pay attention to scumchat discussions. Miller should claim as early as possible. Painting it as a scumtell is ridiculous, especially as the Cop is DEAD. We may not have another one. If i was scum, would i want to draw MORE attention to myself than i already get for being ME?

at first i was gonna ask what you were talking about, but on re-read, yeah, all we know is that we have a dead delayed recruiter, who said anything about a recruit?

What does a recruiter do? Recruits people, yes? So if there was a regular recruiter you would assume there is a cult member running around.

How many games have you played with Cults before?
Generally in my experience, they have restrictions on who they can recruit in order to keep the game balanced. Im surprised u didnt factor this in.

Nonetheless, i think you handled yourself pretty well.

Unvote

BM

[Battle Mage]

By the way guys, I will probably never post a Vote Count in the thread, instead, you will always find the Vote Count at the bottom of the Opening Post, that I will update regularly, this is because it's easier, doesn't clog up the thread, and I know some of you have activated the option that makes the OP appear at the top of each page.

Also, does anybody find this colour difficult to read? I know that some people use different colour schemes to others. If anyone finds this hard to read, I can change my official colour.

Ok. It would be useful if someone could volunteer to keep fairly regular logs of VC's though, in order to use for analysis later.
As long as we know when the VC was last updated, this sounds fine.

BM

Hmm, that analysis is a good point. I'll set up a Quicktopic board that will serve as an archive for Vote Counts. I'll make one and post the link in the OP ASAP.

EDIT: Posted, I'll also put the link here http://www.quicktopic.com/41/H/nGY8JmZW6Lbht

[Battle Mage]

Hi guys!

Wow, I think this is my first game with a Cult. Good thing we got 'em first night though.

30 is a big number for me...

Random vote time,

Vote: Matt_S

because there is a person at my school with the same name...weird...

yeh i know. Matt is such an obscure name in England too. I can honestly say i only know about 7 people with that name on a personal level!

BM

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage, I'm not a big fan of the way you've claimed Miller either. We know that the Cop is dead, and you seem to be doubting the existence of another investigative role. Despite this, you've still claimed Miller because Sir Tornado said that Miller claims should be made early to prevent wasted Cop investigations. If you doubt the existence of another Cop-like role, why do you still feel the need to claim Miller?

Because IF there is another investigative role they are sure to investigate me at some point. This way we dont waste an investigation.

BM

@Skitzer-I dont claim absurd things. Act scummy? Thats debatable.

[Battle Mage]

Quote deleted by mod

Erm, im pretty sure you shouldnt be posting here after you are dead, especially role based info. Not that i dont appreciate the sentiment- i dont think i'd ever have guessed that you killed the Aggressor
Pretty useful role.

Please dont post any more.

BM

[Battle Mage]

1. I dont much like battle mage's miller post, do millers even always know that their millers?

I believe you are the second person to say this. Actually, thinking about it, in my last modded game, i had a player who wasnt told about being Miller. But, in my experience, the opposite is normally true. The only time it would be fair to have a hidden miller, is if there was flavour which gave him a chance of working it out.

3. when i hear delayed cult recruiter, i assume that he is delayed in when he gets to start recruiting, maybe a couple of days

this was my first impression too.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm going to

FOS: Battle Mage

. Yeah, he tried to start a bandwagon, but I was thinking the same thing he was when I read Nemesis's post. Granted I've never played in games with delayed anythings(or cults at all). One thing I am a little surprised by is his miller claim, but if he were scum then claiming miller after a cop dies seems a little dumb. If I were town and my cop died, I think I'd make sure that any backup cop doesn't waste any investigations. I think it's enough to be a little suspicious but I'm not going to vote him yet.

What confused me was that Battle Mage cast his initial random vote towards Khelvaster. Not suspicious since it is a random vote, but he says

I know there not a lot of love loss between you and I, but i'd rather if you're town, we dont interfere with each others scumdars in the game, by arguing and getting OMGUSsy.

Now this may be my inexperience talking, but I think if you want to avoid OMGUS then it's best not to vote for the person to begin with. To me it sounds like he's just trying to get Khelvaster to unvote to avoid a bandwagon on himself.

I see what you're saying. To put it simply, me and Khelv have history, and as we dont exactly get on, he was a suitable random vote. Note also that as soon as i had a reason to vote for someone else, i did. Conversely, his vote on me seemed more than random, and i felt we were going down the slippery slope of 'lynch him because i hate him' rather than 'lynch him because he is scummy'. Obviously i was trying to get him to unvote, or at least think clearly and objectively about the game.

BM

Vote Count Updated

[Battle Mage]

Welcome..and is there any reason you feel BM deserves your vote?

I'm not very well up on strategy, but miller seems like a pretty convenient rolecall for scum. Especially if there's a chance that millers don't even know they're a miller, which I think was brought up before.

I'm probably not looking into this far enough, but the fact he decided to announce it fairly quickly into Day 1 made it seem pretty simple to me.

As opposed to it being totally protown to announce it when a guilty has been declared?

I dont think you have been reading the game totally. Please read my last few posts at least. Im kinda tired of having to explain things over and over again, not to mention newer players reading selectively and believing everything they are told. -.-
Also, use some context plz.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Vote: BattleMage

Seems suspicious...

lol..

Welcome..and is there any reason you feel BM deserves your vote?

Christ, how did I get into a position where I am f-ing defending BM? I think BM can be an ass, but he has done nothing here (yet) that warrants anything like the attention he is getting. Was there something else that I missed other than the Miller claim?

I KNOW!
Im just relieved that there is still someone else here who i can trust to be reasonable and maybe shake some sense into those who follow the crowd.

BM

[Battle Mage]

vote: battle mage

reason: if you're a miller, i'm a newbie.

will expound upon that more when at a computer, not a cell phone.

Is this a counter-claim? Or an admission of inexperience? lol.
I thought of that last night actually. In a 30 player game there is likely to be a Miller of some description. So, i'll invite counters now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

As opposed to it being totally protown to announce it when a guilty has been declared?

Well, you say you called it to prevent cops and doctors from wasting time on you. Or you said it to give any other cops a reason as to why you show up guilty when you're actually scum.

Eh? You're gonna have to rephrase i'm afraid.

I dont think you have been reading the game totally. Please read my last few posts at least. Im kinda tired of having to explain things over and over again, not to mention newer players reading selectively and believing everything they are told. -.-

I have read the entire thread and your posts and thought about them before posting and making a vote. Thank you, however, for your frustration towards the somewhat high number of new players in this game, it says a lot about your character.

Exasperated IC about sums it up.

Also, use some context plz.

What do you mean by this? What sort of context are you wanting?[/quote]

I mean that, yes i claimed Miller, but for gods sake look at HOW.
I claimed it at the earliest opportunity, at the VERY START of the game. You really think if i was scum i would be so forward and claim a role so controversial like that?
A cop had died too, making it significantly less likely, if i was scum, that i'd get investigated (although granted, im a pretty sound investigation choice being one of the more experienced players here).

What is the MOTIVE for me to do this as scum?

This Bandwagon is super weak.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I've already unvoted and consider the bandwagon against BM to not be the greatest idea, but I'll go ahead and respond for his sake.

Eh? You're gonna have to rephrase i'm afraid.

You said your reason earlier as to why you called miller quickly:

Because IF there is another investigative role they are sure to investigate me at some point. This way we dont waste an investigation.

I was simply trying to point out that on the chance you actually are scum, your call of Miller would be an obvious excuse for cops finding you guilty.

yep thats fair enough.


[quote="GSGold]

Exasperated IC about sums it up.

I don't understand this. Could you rephrase or clarify?[/quote]

it means my attitude is a product of exasperation at people who i feel are making bad judgements.

I mean that, yes i claimed Miller, but for gods sake look at HOW.
I claimed it at the earliest opportunity, at the VERY START of the game. You really think if i was scum i would be so forward and claim a role so controversial like that?

How should I know? The most experience I have with the Miller role is on a 9-person game in a chat room. It would seem like a role to call as scum, however. If you'd call it at the very start or not I wouldn't know.

Normally scum dont like to claim early as it means they cannot adapt later on, not to mention that they can be countered.

What is the MOTIVE for me to do this as scum?

A cop had died, making it much less likely you'd get investigated, as you said. If there happened to be a second cop who investigated you and got guilty, your claim of miller would have them dismiss you as pro-town. Seems like an quick attempt to get off the hook.

true, but quite frankly a cop with a guilty on me prior to my claim would be suspicious of me regardless of when i claim. Im merely saving a potential 2nd cop a wasted trip, as its likely i'd be investigated as some point. Its pretty much a null tell, but if you meta-game me, you will probably see why id even call it a town tell from ME.

BM

[Battle Mage]

alright, issue solved.

stop talking about the cult recruiter. he's dead, and now there is no cult.

the next person who talks about the cult recruiter as if its going to help the town to do so is going to be personally murdered.

Vote: Rosso Carne

Should i ask what your issue with the game was?
Or perhaps more importantly, why you would feel the need to share that information with us?
Oh and not forgetting, an explanation of how you know there is no living members of the cult left.

kthxbai.

[Battle Mage]

I mean that, yes i claimed Miller, but for gods sake look at HOW.
I claimed it at the earliest opportunity, at the VERY START of the game. You really think if i was scum i would be so forward and claim a role so controversial like that?

How should I know? The most experience I have with the Miller role is on a 9-person game in a chat room. It would seem like a role to call as scum, however. If you'd call it at the very start or not I wouldn't know.

Normally scum dont like to claim early as it means they cannot adapt later on, not to mention that they can be countered.

You think a counterclaim of miller would mean that one person was scum and one person was a miller? You don't think it could be easily dismissed as 2 millers in a 30 player game being possible?

I am virtually certain that a 30 player game would not feature 2 millers, hence i am happy for a counterclaim, as it will reveal a scumbag.

Have you ever tried any risky gambits before? (Especially as scum.)

No, i generally do those as town. The riskiest thing ive ever done as scum that i can recall was claiming a power role in a newbie game. lol
I pride myself on being able to last a fairly decent amount of time as scum. Ill usually try and lurk in the shadows and not draw attention to myself.

BM

[Battle Mage]

hey assholes, i meant personally murder as in like bombs and stuff (no fbi, not serious)

i feel it will be better being confirmed town later though, so if youre going to vote me, make it at a later date.

Kid, answer my questions or my vote stays on permanently.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Hi, sorry I've neglected this game.

I think we still have to worry about the Cult. If the leader made a recruitment down there, then that guy is probably still out there, most likely with control of the Cult handed down to him. In the games I've seen with a cult, If the leader dies, the recruiting ability gets passed on.

Not sure on who to vote yet.

doesnt that sort of mechanic kind of make the cult invincible? lol

[Battle Mage]

alright, issue solved.

stop talking about the cult recruiter. he's dead, and now there is no cult.

the next person who talks about the cult recruiter as if its going to help the town to do so is going to be personally murdered.

Vote: Rosso Carne

Should i ask what your issue with the game was?
Or perhaps more importantly, why you would feel the need to share that information with us?
Oh and not forgetting, an explanation of how you know there is no living members of the cult left.

kthxbai.

BM in this post you seem to be indicating that Rosso's knowledge of cult members is suspicious - what role exists that would have knowledge of cult status? I think this is a misrep of Rosso. I think he is just reasoning there is no cult, ie delayed means he couldn't start recruiting night 0, now he is dead, therefore no more cult. I can't think of a scummy role that would have priviledged info about this, apart from the guy who is dead.

Exactly my point. No concievable protown role has information of that description on a Cult. Yet, Rosso appears to be breadcrumbing certainty on an issue which he cannot have certainty on, with the apparent intention of cutting our discussion short.
That reasoning is flawed, as in my experience, a Cult generally starts with a recruiter and 1 ordinary recruit. In this case this scenario is EVEN MORE likely as the Recruiter may not have been able to recruit for the first couple of nights. Hence i find his general behaviour peculiar, and the obvious motive is that Rosso himself is that Recruit.

In fact, he even goes as far as to suggest that discussing the cult is anti-town. Again, i want answers, and i want them now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

The only thing we know for sure we have a mafia family and a serial killer, and they night kill.

We know both of those are 100% true? How?

Erm the game is called 'Return of the Mafia'. Would be pretty odd for such a game NOT to feature a Mafia Family. As for the SK, i'm pretty sure that the gruesome kill flavour belonged to an SK.

i feel it will be better being confirmed town later though

You can actually be confirmed town? This isn't another one of your statements you can't follow up?

Yep, another power role breadcrumb that doesnt make sense. -.-

I think we still have to worry about the Cult. If the leader made a recruitment down there, then that guy is probably still out there, most likely with control of the Cult handed down to him. In the games I've seen with a cult, If the leader dies, the recruiting ability gets passed on.

I've seen some backup cult leader type roles. But not that often, and usually everything wouldn't be setup like that from n0. I suppose it is a tiny possibility, but until two culted people die, I don't think worrying about a cult is actually a good way to spend your time.

This is my first game in New York. The board description says: "This forum is for games with basic roles only." What roles does that rule out? Surely some psuedo backup cult leader isn't a basic role?

The maintenance of the rules has become a tad lax recently.

BM

[Battle Mage]

alright, issue solved.

stop talking about the cult recruiter. he's dead, and now there is no cult.

the next person who talks about the cult recruiter as if its going to help the town to do so is going to be personally murdered.

Vote: Rosso Carne

Should i ask what your issue with the game was?
Or perhaps more importantly, why you would feel the need to share that information with us?
Oh and not forgetting, an explanation of how you know there is no living members of the cult left.

kthxbai.

BM in this post you seem to be indicating that Rosso's knowledge of cult members is suspicious - what role exists that would have knowledge of cult status? I think this is a misrep of Rosso. I think he is just reasoning there is no cult, ie delayed means he couldn't start recruiting night 0, now he is dead, therefore no more cult. I can't think of a scummy role that would have priviledged info about this, apart from the guy who is dead.

Exactly my point. No concievable protown role has information of that description on a Cult. Yet, Rosso appears to be breadcrumbing certainty on an issue which he cannot have certainty on, with the apparent intention of cutting our discussion short.
That reasoning is flawed, as in my experience, a Cult generally starts with a recruiter and 1 ordinary recruit. In this case this scenario is EVEN MORE likely as the Recruiter may not have been able to recruit for the first couple of nights. Hence i find his general behaviour peculiar, and the obvious motive is that Rosso himself is that Recruit.

In fact, he even goes as far as to suggest that discussing the cult is anti-town. Again, i want answers, and i want them now.

BM

*shrug*

as usual BM logic FTL.

When a recruiter dies, the recruits are free 99% of the time. don't debat the logistics of the cult role, its outguessing the mod. find scum like a normal player.

Usual BM Logic?
If its that bad, i'm very happy for you to disagree, as long as you back it up. I'm not going to tolerate players stating opinions without giving reasons.
I dont understand what you mean by recruits being 'free'. Do you mean that they become protown?
technically any sort of setup analysis is 'outguessing the Mod' but that doesnt mean it is wrong. Especially when i think i know the Mod relatively well, i'm going to exercise my right to speculate as much as possible.
Oh and in case you havent noticed, i am trying to find scum. You're reactions have been totally inexplicable from a townie, and my vote stays on you until you explain yourself fully. Then perhaps I can move on and look at other players.

BM

[Battle Mage]

The only thing we know for sure we have a mafia family and a serial killer, and they night kill.

We know both of those are 100% true? How?

As for the SK, i'm pretty sure that the gruesome kill flavour belonged to an SK.

Probably but Matt said "we know

for sure

" there is a SK. There's no way to be 100% sure of this... Unless you are the SK.

Throat-Slit seems to be a pretty big tell. lol
Note also, the difference between the other 2 kills. I didnt notice before, but 1 is 'shotgunned' and the other is just 'shot'.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I think that now would be a very good time to mention that BM is almost definitely town. He is playing somewhat antisocially, but he has been contributing to this game very well, moreso than most other players. He hasn't fatally disrupted it, and his presence actually helps.

The feeling is entirely mutual. <3

[Battle Mage]

wait. You think we have a second recruiter? or just that the recruiting is delayed?



BM

[Battle Mage]

Peers: I'd also like to hear about your vote on Battle Mage.

My vote on BM is based on behavior in past games coupled with the early miller silliness. It's not a hard-and-fast, never-change vote... if there were only three votes to lynch, I probably wouldn't have made the vote, but with this many people, I find it better than an invisible FoS.

behaviour in past games?

[Battle Mage]

wait. You think we have a second recruiter? or just that the recruiting is delayed?



BM

well next to his name it says "delayed" cult recruiter so that seems like what it is

not necessarily. Recruiting itself could just be unavailable for the first night or 2.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote, vote oEJo.

Thoughts on the cult? BM's miller claim? Rosso Carne's excessive knowledge on the cult or lack thereof?

I feel like pressuring lurkers is something that needs to happen in this game. 30 people will make it very easy for people to skate through the game.

vote:ninja

do NOT like posts like this.

Why?
Is it just OMGUS or do you actually have a reason for this vote?

[Battle Mage]

shotgunned strikes me as very vig-like.

hmm maybe. Frankly, i dont have a clue. Ive never seen that sort of flavour difference before between shootings.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote, vote oEJo.

Thoughts on the cult? BM's miller claim? Rosso Carne's excessive knowledge on the cult or lack thereof?

I feel like pressuring lurkers is something that needs to happen in this game. 30 people will make it very easy for people to skate through the game.

vote:ninja

do NOT like posts like this.

And why exactly do you not like posts like this? I see nothing suspicious about it. Pressuring lurkers is Good For The Town, and having 30 players does make it easy for one person to go un-noticed.

I do, however, find it suspicious that you suddenly vote for him and offer a one-sentence explanation that explains nothing at all.

Vote: Rosso Carne

As i said before, that post is nothing but fluff, and fluff posts should be killed.

i hate having to explain myself twice, please read the thread next time.

And i hate having to ask questions repeatedly because someone is being deliberately opaque. Just an fyi, though in fairness, i agree with you on this point.

BM

[Battle Mage]

shotgunned strikes me as very vig-like.

This looks like paranoid gun dealer, the guy who shoots anyone targetting him.

that sounds pretty reasonable. Ooi, Khelv, would you have vigged someone N0 in this game?

BM

[Battle Mage]

N0 vig kills are bad. N1 vig kills can be justified. Simple as that.

QFT

Im sorry, but despite being V/LA, i couldnt ignore this terrible lack of foresight on your parts.
I mean, dont think about the ROLES getting vigged. Think about the PLAYERS. Some players make hugely tempting N0 vig targets, simply because they are so anti-town and crap at mafia, that their death becomes a win-win situation.

Of course, i dont think that applies in this game, but generally speaking, you are talking bs.

BM

[Battle Mage]

If we do have a vig, I don't think he killed last night.

I agree. Guessing kill types based on one set of kills isn't that solid.

I'd expect him to kill tonight though.

Although, I'd half expect a doc or roleblocker to be lucky on one of the two nights.

Then again, there's always a potential SK no killing.

Peers post = QFT

Nemesis's last comment= WTF!?

I approve of Andersonw's first post.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Oejo makes a good point about thenextepisode. Good Bandwagon.

Unvote, Vote: The Next Episode

BM

[Battle Mage]

Then again, there's always a potential SK no killing.

Nemesis's last comment= WTF!?

You don't think a Serial Killer would

ever

choose not to kill?

It is theoretically possible that a Serial Killer would not kill. Whether it is likely is another question, but I think it's possible for a Serial Killer to no kill. Whether it is to setup a safe claim, to sow seeds of doubt about a Serial Killer existing, to make the town worry about a cult, etc.

There is always a tiny tiny tiny possibility that some SK tries such a tactic.

that is silly logic. The only possible reasoning for an SK not killing, is if they knew there was a tracker who was after them, and they couldnt kill.
In other words, SK always kills.

BM

[Battle Mage]

The vig discussion is one that really doesn't do much for me. First, as stated previously, I don't think it was a vig kill, and two, maybe its just me and my history elsewhere, but I am used to town vigs having restrictions placed on them, like if they kill a townie by accident, they leave the game as well. That sort of thing.

I guess the typical town vigilante here is much more... ruthless.

Either way, I don't see the point of treating the existence of a vig as a de facto certainty or not day 1 when another couple of phases will make that clear. Besides, I thought that sort of discussion would only help the mafia, anyway.

The Battlemage thing... a question for the veterans here. Is BM considered a strong townie player? By this I mean, does he have a rep as a strong scum hunter? If so, I do wonder why he wasn't targeted night one then.

Conversely, maybe I have misread things, and is BM more noteworthy as someone who always seems suspicious? By this I mean is BM one of those players who has a reputation for being hard to trust? If so, then I could see why scum would leave him alive, he's certainly managed to attract a lot of attention already. Then again, he himself has helped feed that with his Miller claim.

Lol i like this post. It shows u are thinking. Check my title. It says 'Jester' because i always look scummy. In fact, im reputed to look scummier as town than as actual scum. Im such an easy mislynch its untrue. Please meta me, and dont do something really stupid.

Ill talk more later.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm going to reread again, vote stands for now, but I'm fine with people realizing BM has to die eventually and can't be auto-cleared because of this. Thats probably better than a D1 lynch on someone scummy who won't really contribute that much.

lol is anyone else getting exceptionally scummy vibes from this?

[Battle Mage]

"outing a townie"..interesting phrasing

Thats actually... not what he said. 0.o lol

[Battle Mage]

Quite right, was gonna edit it out, but forgot, and another post would look rather pathetic...But still, evidence does seem to point towards Lloyd is some degree, though I'm still not done looking through posts...

Why would you be concerned about discussing a Jester?
I get the impression you are just bowing to OEJO's pressure.

Unvote, Vote: Imat

BM

[Battle Mage]

Armlx-except i AM the Miller, hence you couldnt cop confirm me anyway-claim or not.

so if Battlemage is the Miller, then what armix?

If BM does turn up dead and he was indeed the Miller, then I think we should go after Armix.

Setting up multiple lynches? UBERSCUMMY

HoS: Nanosauromo

oh btw, i know im jumping around alot atm. its deliberate-when i reread in 10 pages time, ill be able to see who i found scummy, and be able to focus on their subsequent play.

BM

[Battle Mage]

so basically either

BM is lying scum and is claiming miller to avoid investigations

or

BM is telling the truth, he's basically vanilla, but there's always going to be that uncertainty about him, and scum will try to play on that to get him lynched at a crucial moment


Am I missing something or is this the situation? If this is the case I may switch my vote to BM, because I don't see much of a down side.

Thats actually about 66% correct. There's an option C that he had some kind of role on top of miller thats exactly the same as option B otherwise.

This is a surprisingly perceptive post. It isnt especially a town-tell, but it shows me that you are thinking objectively at least. Of course, it also raises the question of, Why the hell are you voting for me, if you think this is a possibility?
Im seeing hypocrisy here....

BM

[Battle Mage]

jesus christ...can we please quit talking about who we think are town?!? It paints a target and really helps no one but scum!

I disagree with this completely.

Could you explain your reasoning as to why it's a good idea?

I'd rather see you explain your reasoning as to why it ISN'T a bad idea. That goes for you too CKD.

BM

[Battle Mage]

*bad should say good there. lol

Fattierob has requested replacement, which I will hopefully find soon.

[Battle Mage]

jesus christ...can we please quit talking about who we think are town?!? It paints a target and really helps no one but scum!

I disagree with this completely.

Could you explain your reasoning as to why it's a good idea?

I'd rather see you explain your reasoning as to why it ISN'T a bad idea. That goes for you too CKD.

BM

already done that

Ah i see. my turn with the retort then.

Stating who you think is town is like stating who you think is scum. It gets ur opinions down, can give good meta information and allow power role breadcrumbs. Theres probs more, but thats more than enough to counter the negatives.

@Charity-vote for Imat, or explain why you think he is town.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Armlx, comments on Imat please. ill respond to ur other post tomoz.

[Battle Mage]

so basically either

BM is lying scum and is claiming miller to avoid investigations

or

BM is telling the truth, he's basically vanilla, but there's always going to be that uncertainty about him, and scum will try to play on that to get him lynched at a crucial moment


Am I missing something or is this the situation? If this is the case I may switch my vote to BM, because I don't see much of a down side.

Thats actually about 66% correct. There's an option C that he had some kind of role on top of miller thats exactly the same as option B otherwise.

This is a surprisingly perceptive post. It isnt especially a town-tell, but it shows me that you are thinking objectively at least. Of course, it also raises the question of, Why the hell are you voting for me, if you think this is a possibility?
Im seeing hypocrisy here....

BM

I am voting you because I believe you fall under option A, rather than B or C. The 66% wasn't referring to your case, but instead the fact WhoMe? had found 2/3 of the realistic possibilities.

Im not getting this. Why exactly are you sure i dont have an additional role of some sort?

First, I believe that the estimated gain from lynching you is higher than the estimated loss. The gain from lynching you as lying scum is far greater than the loss from lynching you as town miller and visa versa, less gain for you living as town miller compared to loss of you living as mafia with claim.

That greatly depends on your answer to the above question.

Second, given your behavior I'm leaning that you are more likely scum safe claiming based on a metagame.

A scum safe-claim of Miller? WTF is SAFE about that?
But yeh, i agree i could potentially be using the meta on me, to confirm my innocence, as i dont do ballsy moves as scum, and i could be trying something different. Thats WIFOM, and a null-tell, but if u use ur common sense, its more likely a town tell.

The auto-clear thing is in regards to miller being unclearable by cop. B/c you claimed miller should not mean we accept you as town, as there's no realistic way to assure you are.

Equally, it doesnt mean you should accept me as scum automatically. its a two way street, and again, this is not a reason for a vote.

If someone who legitimately is a lot scummier than you are shows up, I'm willing to lynch them over you. However, at this point in time you are definitely the best lynch, and thus my vote stands until it is needed elsewhere.

Now, heres the thing. I can just about understand a townie keeping his vote on me for now. A misguided townie, but nonetheless well meaning. But what i dont get is why, on page 12, you are willing to declare that you are prepared to lynch someone solely because they claimed a non-power-role, even though you cant point out one scummy action on their part...

Dont think i havent got my eye on you. If you are town, read this carefully.

BM

[Battle Mage]

If anything that game has made me much more sure of my vote. If he was willing to run the old claim cop as townie, the odds he would run the claim miller as scum go WAY up.

that makes no sense. Oh and i should add 1 thing that Khelv missed there, which is that the only time i fakeclaim as town (ive also done it in Clue Mafia) is when im about to get lynched myself. In fact, its the only time i claim as scum too. I dont do gambits when i am not under any pressure atall. -.-

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm not convinced you don't have an additional role. I'm just more convinced its more probably that you don't or (specifically) are scum. The scum thing mainly comes from your first interaction with Nemesis, which I felt was absurd yet phrase well enough to garner support from less logical people and mainly following the oEJo started wagon, which is what the top 3 scummy people on my list did (You, oEJo, Incognito). Also the circumstances of your claim seem odd to me, but I'm going to have to think how to exactly qualify what I mean by this.

Ok fair enough. But do you really want to condemn me for starting a minor wagon on page 1?

Scum safe claim of miller: How many people doubted you besides me? One, two? You see my point? (By safe claim I don't mean a mod granted one, but a role people believe to be confirmed as pro-town ie. scum claiming doctor + people not dying one night and no counterclaim).

I dont think anyone believes it as confirmed protown. But it is a null tell atm, or at worst, a strange minor scumtell. Anyway, i dont do gambits out of the blue. especially in a game like this, were i scum, id much rather set up some newer players by drawing them into the limelight. Its hardly a 'safe'claim because by definition it has connotations of scum. But its the role ive been given.

BM

I'm not auto accepting you as scum. I unvoted you after real discussion started and actually scummy people started to appear and revoted after you pinged my scumdar on top of my early suspicions. Just based on this, I'ld probably have you top 3 on my scuminess list with Incognito and oEJo, but combined with the miller claim I'm willing to put you ahead of them.

ok, so the only real reason behind ur vote on me other than the claim, is that i put pressure on Nemesis. I dont find that wholly convincing. It was quite reasonable to be wary of a newer player coming in and seeming to let slip extra knowledge. I think you'd find most IC's wouldve said the same tbh.

BM

[Battle Mage]

because that's just my style, i don't vote early.

link to other games please?

BM

[Battle Mage]

It seems to me that armix has been hounding BM for awhile, even though, in my opinion, BM has answered each question satisfactorily. What I don't see is armix being questioned for his overzealousness in this particular lynch, where, as its been stated, a townie is more likely to be lynched than our true enemy, the Mafia. Care to comment on this at all armix?

this is a surprising reaction considering how Armlx has been defending you, and i've been attacking you. Maybe i was a bit hasty.

Unvote: Imat

[Battle Mage]

Incognito: Sorry, I didn't see that due to my simul post. I thought it was already there and I had read it already when checking the thread later.

What I mean is if the town came to an understanding that BM should not be allowed to live to the end game (as it just leads to really awkward scenarios any way you look at it) I would be willing to go after other people.

As for why he won't die, lets assume BM is town. Why would scum kill someone that the town will always doubt at least a little bit? He wouldn't die as scum either, as every scum group would think the same thing.

You are being hypocritical here. On the one hand, you say that i will live to endgame because people doubt me, and yet, it is you making this mistake, not everyone else. You are CAUSING the problems that you are so worried about. Odds on i wont survive till endgame anyway, as one of the more experienced players, i may get NKed despite my claim. But if i do, be glad because i might be the difference between victory and defeat.

BM:

I'm not just condemning you for the Nemesis thing. You also followed oEJo's terrible logic bandwagon, as did Incognito. Notice who my top 3 scummy people are? Yeah, you 3.

Ah good, we appear to be getting somewhere. Please can you link me to this, or explain more fully?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Also, 1 more question to BM and a statement

especially in a game like this, were i scum, id much rather set up some newer players by drawing them into the limelight.

Look at your vote on Imat. At least to me, this seems like exactly like what you are trying to do. Set up someone who is clearly new and doesn't understand the specific style of play (ie random votes) here with arguments that only apply to those who choose to buck the current system knowingly.

Erm by 'set up' i meant actually lynch, not just put 1 vote on. lol
And besides, u cant condemn me every time i pressurise a newer player. Im just saying that as town, im not going to ignore the pro's, as i might have as scum.

Now the question: Don't you think newer players would be more willing to accept an experienced player making a miller claim, where as experienced players would be more likely to consider and call a bluff as I have?

No, i think the exact opposite. Id expect newbs to naturally come and suspect the guy who claims miller. Im happy to accept that.
On the other hand, i'd expect more experienced players to realise how claiming miller at the start of a game can be helpful, and furthermore, to realise that this is nothing that i would consider doing as scum, or at the very least that it isnt a scumtell.

BM

[Battle Mage]

For the love of god, please, nobody vig BM.

Maybe later in the game, vig him. Right now, he is a contributing, pro-town player. He's almost confirmed himself as town by claiming miller straight-off. I hope the vig kills off someone who is suspicious and not contributing instead.

qft. id like to see the vig used as a second lynch rather than a tool to weed out controversial, but unscummy players.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Armlx, can you not read. Ive already pointed out why such a discussion now only benefits the mafia, as it allows and encourages them to invoke such a WIFOM situation. I dont see why you are still pushing this.

FoS: Armlx

[Battle Mage]

Incognito: Sorry, I didn't see that due to my simul post. I thought it was already there and I had read it already when checking the thread later.

What I mean is if the town came to an understanding that BM should not be allowed to live to the end game (as it just leads to really awkward scenarios any way you look at it) I would be willing to go after other people.

As for why he won't die, lets assume BM is town. Why would scum kill someone that the town will always doubt at least a little bit? He wouldn't die as scum either, as every scum group would think the same thing.

You are being hypocritical here. On the one hand, you say that i will live to endgame because people doubt me, and yet, it is you making this mistake, not everyone else. You are CAUSING the problems that you are so worried about. Odds on i wont survive till endgame anyway, as one of the more experienced players, i may get NKed despite my claim. But if i do, be glad because i might be the difference between victory and defeat.

BM:

I'm not just condemning you for the Nemesis thing. You also followed oEJo's terrible logic bandwagon, as did Incognito. Notice who my top 3 scummy people are? Yeah, you 3.

Ah good, we appear to be getting somewhere. Please can you link me to this, or explain more fully?

BM

Armlx- here's that post you wanted. Tip number 1 for future games as scum-dont tell lies that are so easily traceable.
Your logic is absolutely terrible btw. I suspect we'll be having words at the end of the game.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Nope. You ARE causing them. Maybe if you thought objectively for a second before you spoke, you'd realise that in declaring your intention to lynch me before LyLo, and encouraging others to do the same, you make it more likely that the scum wont NK me, and instead, are more likely to hit our power roles. You want to see the WIFOM of my claim removed, yet it is because of you, and only you, that it probably isnt going to happen. Again, well done. :X

[Battle Mage]

its going to be WIFOM anyway. The only thing this will achieve is bring YOU into the discussion, as obviously any WIFOM concerning my death or lack of is now going to tie directly to you. Just stop this discussion now, and lets move on please.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I dont know anymore if I believe the BM claim or not, but lynching him today is a waste of a lynch (today anyway).

I support this position on BM. I also don't think armlx is scum. I would not be opposed to a nano lynch, but then, as has already gotten me in trouble this game, I support lynching lurkers.

I totally agree.

FoS: SweatPantsNinja

First person to tell me why i did this earns

vote immunity

from me for the duration of the day.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Also, if we could lynch armlix, and he came up scum, we would see BM as practically confirmed, yet another reason for an armlix lynch (not to tunnel vision, but yeah...he's tunnel visioning BM...)

its a nice idea, but my worry would be that should Armlx come up town, it would lead to a subsequent mislynch, this time of me, and the scum gain a major advantage.

BM

[Battle Mage]

. Right now, he is a contributing, pro-town player. He's almost confirmed himself as town by claiming miller straight-off.

eh not entirely true making miller vlaims doesnt mean you arent realy scum. btw i dont think hes scum i was just pointing that out

Unvote, Vote: Killa Seven

This post gives me dubious vibes.

@Khelv-im not sure either. We both played in that game where KScope was the worst GF ever, if i recall correctly. Ill try and look for other examples for Armlx later.

BM

[Battle Mage]

If we treated him like 100% town, I was hoping that the scum would NK him.

I really doubt that would have worked, if Killa Seven wouldn't have mentioned it, someone else would have... Or the scum would think for themselves... Or the scum would want to kill power-roles or a particular person anyway. Anyone can see he's just confirmed that a cop investigation on him will get a guilty if the cop is sane.

And if no townie noticed this, the scum would have done. (And they'd be nice enough to tell us.)

Also, if we could lynch armlix, and he came up scum, we would see BM as practically confirmed,

The attempts to confirm BM are getting old already... He's unconfirmable, the only lynch that could confirm him, would be his own.

BM, just tell us why you FoSed Ninja. It could be for a dozen reasons and everyone mentioning the possible reasons would just make it appear like everyone was against him. Besides, personal immunities are over-rated.

As opposed to a vanilla townie, who can be confirmed by a lynch other than his own? -.-
The only confirmation difference is that i cant be cop confirmed protown. Oh and i should note, any cop investigations now would be dubious anyway, due to potential insanity, as we already have a dead sane cop.

I'll take your response to my FoS as 'i dont have a clue'. Its not rocket science. Im just interested to see who is thinking on the same wavelength as me.

BM

[Battle Mage]

i don't see the dubiousness. He's not saying much at all in that post, and it's pretty generic stuff. Not much thought in it, you know?

he seems to be subtly trying to fight both arguments. On the one hand he declares that he doesnt think BM (me) is scummy, and yet on the flipside, he gives reasons why there is reason to doubt me. But it is not this alone which i find scummy-more the order. After stating that i am not confirmed town, he seems almost anxious to express his view of non-aggression towards me.
Its been a long time since i gave a psychiatric analysis of a post, but in the past its been good.
Anyway, its worthy of a vote for the moment.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Oh and i should note, any cop investigations now would be dubious anyway, due to potential insanity, as we already have a dead sane cop.


BM

Ummm you know this how exactly? the dead guy just has a description of cop, would it have said paranoid cop or whatever if that were the case? does just "cop" mean he was defo sane?

yeh pretty much. It'd be pretty Bastard Moddish if cops with different sanities werent identified upon death. Although u may have a point that the lack of specification of the dead cop being 'sane' could indicate that we dont have any other cop sanities, and hence probably no other cops.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Townies can make mistakes. Scum won't tunnel vision other scum, but townies can tunnel vision other townies. This is a one-way link--if armlix is scum, you are town, but if he's town, you're undecided.

I disagree. I've seen a scum go after another scum on day 1.

yep, in fact i've done it on numerous occassions. But i see what Khelv is trying to say. If Armlx is scum, it is highly unlikely that i am scum with him, simple because his behaviour makes little sense. Not only has he bussed to an extreme degree, but he has now relinquished the pressure slightly, which, if we were scum together, i wouldnt expect him to do.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I dont know anymore if I believe the BM claim or not, but lynching him today is a waste of a lynch (today anyway).

I support this position on BM. I also don't think armlx is scum. I would not be opposed to a nano lynch, but then, as has already gotten me in trouble this game, I support lynching lurkers.

I totally agree.

FoS: SweatPantsNinja

First person to tell me why i did this earns

vote immunity

from me for the duration of the day.

BM

I'm going to step up to the challenge, just for fun.

I'm pretty sure it's not the lynching lurkers thing, because that's too obvious to give out vote immunity for.

Not lynching a miller so that they could potentially lynch a power role or force a power role to claim? But that applies to all claims that aren't power roles, so it seems unlikely.

Naming who he thinks is innocent rather than who he thinks is scum? He's not the only one to do that though. I'll have more guesses later.

You're close with the last one. Not close enough to get vote immunity however. lol

Its more the whole non-commital vibe about the post. when 2 people attack each other it is natural for a townie to be drawn to one side or the other. Yet he claims to find both me and Armlx innocent, with NO reasoning to back this up. Ninja is hardly a total newb, and i cant see him fitting the description made by RossWilliam of being too unsure to vote. Even when he DOES name a suspect, he says it in a less than convincing way. It all seems like a lack of scumhunting, and perhaps even as far as role based knowledge of players being protown.

BM

[Battle Mage]

no, im not.

thats defense enough.

vote imat

for echoing BM like a freaking muse.

is this a joke?
coz if so, i dont get it.

But i'll humour you. what gives you the impression Imat is echoing me?

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM he said the exact same thing right out of the blue right after you.

its not a joke.

where?
Link would be mucho helpful.

*NB: I do not have a Post Restriction

BM

[Battle Mage]

i told you he was guilty

You told us WHO was guilty?

I really really really would like to see a

Killa Seven Bandwagon

right about now. I have a feeling if anyone is going to crack under pressure-it be him.

BM

[Battle Mage]

why is the Killa Seven BW any better than a Nano BW?

both are good but Killa Seven is more likely to slip up imho.

[Battle Mage]

why is the Killa Seven BW any better than a Nano BW?

both are good but Killa Seven is more likely to slip up imho.

FoS: Battle Mage

I know I said you were town before, but seriously, I have to have my limits. You just said that Killa Seven is more likely to break under pressure, not that he is scum. If he breaks under pressure, that's an easy lynch. That's not necessarily a scum lynch.

lol only scum 'crack under pressure'. If Killa Seven has nothing to hide, he has nothing to worry about. I think you misread me there.

BM

[Battle Mage]

However, not all scum cracks when under scrutiny. That makes BM post invalid IMHO

in a game of this nature i figure its worth a shot. Unfortunately with the amount of time we've spent discussing it, its increasingly less likely to work. Where's Pooky when i need him? He'd get a nice BW up and running, and we'd probably have nailed a scum by now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

--Edited by Mod--

-Albert

CENSORED. lol

@Khelv-you havent heard of Nano!?!?one?

[Battle Mage]

Hes jumping on too many bandwagons without any explanation. This is beginning to look like an easy lynch, if he doesn't explain his most recent vote.

I'm happy to leave him be until we at least get some more pressure on Killa Seven. And maybe Nano the lurker is looking like a good lynch now. OeJo we can deal with later i think.

BM

[Battle Mage]

CKD, are you EVER scum?

[Battle Mage]

CKD, are you EVER scum?

werent we scum together and lost horribly?

I didnt count that though, because you were dead before i saw the game had started. rofl.

[Battle Mage]

hmm i prefer a Killa Seven BW, but i guess a Nano wagon will at least get him posting, or his replacement. I wouldnt complain about modkills atm, assuming they didnt end the day.

Unvote, Vote: Nanosauromo

that puts him about half way to lynch. a few more people can jump on before it gets serious and we need to worry about scum piling for a quick-lynch.

BM

[Battle Mage]

then vote for Nano, if you arent already.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Actually, I seem to remember being in a game that went over 100 pages. Thank god I died before then.

BM just keeps acting more and more dumb. At this point I can't even say its scummy b/c the play is so awkward.

Hold on a second. I've got the card that trumps all your piddly little games. Thats right. 3 words.

Lost Boys Mafia.



And i was going to wish you Happy Scumday till you made that post. -.-

Ok with Tlp atm. yeh his post was a little dubious, but if theres a scum i like, its one that follows me blindly.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I have a feeling this will be a monster of a game too.

I hope so. I'm nearly enjoying myself!

BM

[Battle Mage]

Gonna follow bm in this, not because he is 100% right, but because I do hope we don't end this day without a lynch, better to try to find scum then a no lynch and lose 1 townie for sure.

Vote: Nanosauromo

do you think Nano is scum or not?

There nothing so far to really have a clue on anyone. But seems my vote is pretty suspicous by all of you so

Unvote : Nano

I just don't want to end this day with a deadline and no lynch.

lol i take it all back.

Unvote, Vote: TLP

we have ourselves a self-concious scumbag.

BM

[Battle Mage]

this is good fast town movement. regardless of who we are running up, it is good to keep scum on their toes-the last thing they want is an impulsive town who will latch onto 1 mistake and put massive pressure on.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Methinks Tlp is a better lynch. Plus the fact that he didn't answer the question, he unvoted and said he didn't want a lynch. (?)

unvote, vote tlp

FoS: Skitzer

why do i just get the feeling you copycatted CKD?

lol

[Battle Mage]

^any reason why you are reluctant to join it?
distancing perchance?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Take into consideration the speed of the wagon. He'll be asked to claim after a few more votes, the bandwagon is very serious and very fast.

Although my point was, both are scummy and I'd rather not be part of a quicklynch.

erm no. he has 7 votes. thats just half way. And besides, i highly doubt he will be asked to claim till -2. Im happy for him to get up to 10 votes atm, and then we'll see where we go from there.

Matt S pinged my scumdar with his vote. Once we get a half decent explanation from Tlp, i think he's a good choice for our next dose of pressure.

BM

@Jordan- if you could possibly make Nano top of the replacement priorities list, thatd be swell
In the meantime, does the required votes to lynch lower, whilst we have 5 less players to potentially create a lynch?

[Battle Mage]

lol i take it all back.

Unvote, Vote: TLP

we have ourselves a self-concious scumbag.

Matt S pinged my scumdar with his vote. Once we get a half decent explanation from Tlp, i think he's a good choice for our next dose of pressure.

First, you vote for Tlp because you think he's scummy.

Now, you're hinting at Tlp that he will lose your vote if he provides a "half decent explanation".

If you still think Tlp is scummy, and if you really want to pressure him, why would you even discuss who you want to wagon next?

for the same reason that you give opinions atall throughout the game. To let people know where you stand, and to make sure you dont forget scummy behaviour. TLP cannot be truly pressured unless more people vote for him. FACT.

BM

[Battle Mage]

rofl!

[Battle Mage]

"And a claimed Miller shall lead them..."

Chapter 8, verse 12, from the Book of What the **** is this ****!

in fact, if you make a couple similar comments throughout the course of the game (hilarious biblical references) i'm going to nominate you for the Funniest Player Scummy!

[Battle Mage]

Ok i guess i can deal with that explanation now. Right, BWers, lets move on to Matt S. and this time i want a serious wagon, as his play definitely warrants it.

Unvote, Vote: Matt S

BM

[Battle Mage]

I can dig this train of thought.

Unvote, Vote: Matt_S

Also noticing a connection to Lloyd, albeit a weaker one. If Matt_S comes out scum, I know who I'm voting for tomorrow though.

this makes me MUCH happier with my vote.

BM

[Battle Mage]

So your saying you've breadcrumbed your role?

Don't claim just yet, there's a decent bandwagon, but I don't think you should claim just yet.

Why would you make this post?
you clearly dont want him to claim, yet you ask him whether his post meant he was breadcrumbing...

If he says 'yes', then we can all go and find out his role anyway.
If he says 'no' then we can conclude that he has a confirmable role, which scum will probably kill. Its equivalent of a power role claim.

Of course if Matt was trying to hunt rolefishers, he certainly succeeded. Just about everyone who has posted since, has done so.

Im not going to be the exception. Matt if you want to save us a load of time, you may aswell claim now. Especially if you are a power role, as we dont want you getting quickhammered.

BM

[Battle Mage]

SL is a banned player.

But he already knew that. Didn't he?

Still waiting on Matt's claim.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Still waiting on Matt's claim.

Judging from the reactions so far(and the three votes on me) I'd say most people don't want me to claim, or are at least afraid to come forward after my "double reverse psychology with a twist". But I am curious. Do you think that you could actually get a large bandwagon on me? Because right now I have three votes, and people aren't exactly piling on. If you still wish to pursue me, put together a strong case and I may claim early. Otherwise, I may have an alternative.

I'm not sure at this point. I think i can see what is happening. People are happy to follow me, until i actually find a serious wagon, probably on a scumbag, and suddenly those scum want to go back to the easier lynch-in this case, TLP. Of course he's not a TERRIBLE lynch, but i think those on him at the moment seem a bit eager. Interested to hear this alternative of course.

BM

[Battle Mage]

currently im thinking hes scummy, but less scummy than others. Hence i want to go for a safer option if possible.

BM

[Battle Mage]

And is it just me or does WhoMe? seem only to pop up when someone is said against him?

Go on then, prove it. The comment of armix's I just jumped on is the first time in this game anything has been said against me, so what you are saying here is pure BS.

never seen u so aggressive before as town... 0.o

FoS: Whome

[Battle Mage]

how do you suppose this new playstyle is going to help you?

BM

[Battle Mage]

PBPA of Matt S

0 – Strange that even though he give an airtight case for thinking im town, that he would FoS me. Seems like he is just going with the flow a bit. The rest of his post is fair enough.
1- Last phrase is indicative of playing the newbie card.
5- A weird post all round. I cant make any sense of it. He takes a FoS off me, on the grounds that more people are bandwagonning. But wait a cotton-picking minute! An FoS doesn’t count towards a bandwagon!
Im reading distancing from a mislynch and bailing from a hot wagon all over this…
8- Logical post. Townie points here.
28- Lynch happy.

Actually, looking at this objectively, I’m less sure about Matt being scum than I thought. He seems to defend me a lot, and he does make a lot of sense. Its true that he gives off scumtells, but he also gives off towntells.
I think its quite possible that there is a better lynch out there at the moment.

Unvote

BM

[Battle Mage]

I whish to know why I am scummy.

You usually look scummie because you make peoples hurt hurt with the logic you posses.

hurt hurt.

rofl!

[Battle Mage]

0 – Strange that even though he give an airtight case for thinking im town, that he would FoS me. Seems like he is just going with the flow a bit. The rest of his post is fair enough.

The reasons I defended you and the reasons I FoSed you were different. I FoSed you because of the way you interacted with Khelvaster.

Ok fair enough.

5- A weird post all round. I cant make any sense of it. He takes a FoS off me, on the grounds that more people are bandwagonning. But wait a cotton-picking minute! An FoS doesn’t count towards a bandwagon!
Im reading distancing from a mislynch and bailing from a hot wagon all over this…

I think I said this later, but I read part of one game where someone was under suspicion for quietly following a bandwagon with an FoS.

this does not make you sound less scummy to me. 0.o

28- Lynch happy.

You mean bandwagon happy. I wanted to put pressure on someone who would reply.

No i mean Lynch happy. You wanted to vote for someone who you could conceivably get a claim from, and hence, lynch.

BM

[Battle Mage]

viola. rofl.
I think im filling the role of Grammar Nazi in this game.

BM

[Battle Mage]

this game is immense, in its capacity to make me laugh and smile.

<3 you all!

[Battle Mage]

this game is immense, in its capacity to make me laugh and smile.

<3 you all!

Great I got added to BM's quotes for his sig. Sigh.

that better not be sarcasm. I'm intending to nominate you for Funniest Player as well, unless Antithesis can trump you later in the game.

BM

[Battle Mage]

dont be embarrassed. My sig is only for the most awesome comments. You knocked off Stoofer admitting his inferiority to me. Thats gotta warrant some serious respect! :p

[Battle Mage]

missing out on the fun? yes.

We probably need prods. Id like to see more people weighing in with opinions.

[Battle Mage]

He's being Rosso. He has different tells than most people. BM can input more on this than I can.

yeh, upon reflection, i think we should leave Rosso for a while at least. He is nearing death in another game and once his role is revealed there, i think i will have a strong meta of him.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote, vote: Lloyd

I can dig it.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Id say Whome is a better player than Lloyd imho. Just cant see his protown mentality for self-voting, expect perhaps that he thought Whome got away with it, so why shouldnt he.

BM

[Battle Mage]

unvote vote lloyd

im never a fan of voting for yourself.

fos whome

at least he unvoted and voted lloyd..

ah good good. Glad to see that wagon wasnt a total waste.

BM's Rule 1 of Townsmanship:
1. When in need of suspects, try a pointless BW and see who buys into it. :p

Unvote, Vote: Killa Seven

[Battle Mage]

TSPN is playing to what i consider a town meta. Armlx has participated up till now if i recall. Killa seems like hes worth a reread.

BM

[Battle Mage]

EBWOP: Ohh, i remember. Killa Seven was the guy i wanted to BW ages ago, on fairly reasonable grounds. Only 1 thing perturbs me about it, but i reckon its a good strat for now.

Confirm Vote: Killa Seven

BM

[Battle Mage]

Farside. vote for Killa 7 plz.

kthxbai

[Battle Mage]

thanks. i owe you one.

[Battle Mage]

Farside. vote for Killa 7 plz.

kthxbai

Okay

Unvote: Vote Killa seven

wow this is a earie post.. sum buddies? and why did u pick me from the bandwagon.. u vote hope more than anyone else in this game bm.. smh

dont cry that ive been unfair. I read the entirety of your posts, and frankly, im very happy to see you get run up today.

BM

[Battle Mage]

...Can we please stop the randomness we've fallen back into? BM had a reason to vote lloyd, to try and catch Scum. killa fell into his trap, as did two others, but BM thought killa to be the most Scummy. So he voted killa, simple as that. Its also possible, knowing BM's other trap, that asking farside to vote killa was another trap. Perhaps he was looking at farside to see if he'd be easy to sway the vote of, perhaps marking him as someone who wants a quick lynch, somebody usually anti-town.

Thats was kind of how I took it, though BM may have had other reasons. Scum won't ask each other for votes, and even if they did, they wouldn't vote the same way when asked. Number one way to expose yourself as Scum: Vote with Scum or give your vote to the quickest Lynch.

You, my friend, are VERY perceptive.

[Battle Mage]

thats a nice table Lloyd, but what does it tell us?

Except that self-voting can have humourous consequences.

BM

[Battle Mage]

^same lol (about the quick reply button)

[Battle Mage]

Popular Lynch ideas I see most likely to be scum: tlp, Lloyd, and WhoMe?

Popular Lynch ideas I see most unlikely to be scum: Charity and TSN

just my opinion. Therefore, for now, I'm going back to

vote: tlp

Yo Skitzer, can you please do me a PBPA of Killa Seven?

And you can also explain why you are only willing to vote for so called 'popular lynch' candidates.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Im sorry. Ill be a bit more specific. Ill quote posts of his which I find scummy, and you can do your best to explain them away. Then i'll explain why i think they are scummy, which means my opinions go down on paper aswell-its a Win-Win

1.

alright, issue solved.

the next person who talks about the cult recruiter as if its going to help the town to do so is going to be personally murdered.

so your basically saying your either scum or a sk? and you can kill someone..

vote rosso carne

2.

. Right now, he is a contributing, pro-town player. He's almost confirmed himself as town by claiming miller straight-off.

eh not entirely true making miller vlaims doesnt mean you arent realy scum. btw i dont think hes scum i was just pointing that out

3.

Farside. vote for Killa 7 plz.

kthxbai

Okay

Unvote: Vote Killa seven

wow this is a earie post.. sum buddies? and why did u pick me from the bandwagon.. u vote hope more than anyone else in this game bm.. smh

Those 3 will do for now. I'll leave the other posts which are merely exhibitions of lurking in plain sight, as you have already acknowledged them.

BM

[Battle Mage]

...Can we please stop the randomness we've fallen back into? BM had a reason to vote lloyd, to try and catch Scum. killa fell into his trap, as did two others, but BM thought killa to be the most Scummy. So he voted killa, simple as that. Its also possible, knowing BM's other trap, that asking farside to vote killa was another trap. Perhaps he was looking at farside to see if he'd be easy to sway the vote of, perhaps marking him as someone who wants a quick lynch, somebody usually anti-town.

Thats was kind of how I took it, though BM may have had other reasons. Scum won't ask each other for votes, and even if they did, they wouldn't vote the same way when asked. Number one way to expose yourself as Scum: Vote with Scum or give your vote to the quickest Lynch.

You, my friend, are VERY perceptive.

Which goes against everything he has done so far. Good learner.

I don't know what to say to this...I think BM was being sarcastic, but that could just be me being paranoid. I think armlx was being sarcastic as well, but not so much jokingly but in a "That may point him out as scum" way. Again, could be paranoia, I have trouble knowing when people are being sarcastic when praising me...Character flaw, if you will.

Rofl. Yep i agree with the paranoid comment. I was actually being complimentary-as you basically read my mind.

Anyways, Lloyd's vote counter was both overly large and underly telling. The fact that he bothered to make the list gives me a slightly greater Town read from him, but the fact that it wouldn't tell us anything unless somebody had voted with every single wagon doesn't really give cause to post it, giving me cause to suspect Lloyd of trying to appear a hunter while posting nothing of value. Pretty much eliminates the alignment of the entire post.

Rosso still doesn't make large posts, I don't understand why the pressure left him. Because he didn't post enough of an explanation to make a wagon interesting?

Still, I don't really know about the killa wagon. Perhaps I just missed something. I'll have to reread his posts or something. Or, if anybody else wants to explain their suspicions, I'll look into those specifically. Either way I'm going to reread him, so I'll get back to you all.

I look forward to reading it. (not sarcasm)

[Battle Mage]

Yes! New page! Quick reply is back on the screen!

The 1 interesting thing I've noticed from that chart so far is antithesis has yet to make a vote.

I am waiting for someone to make a rational, well thought case against someone else. So far, all I have seen is copious amounts of 'I think you are scummy for miniscule reason X' sort of posts and a bunch of wagon hopping. To wit I can make neither heads nor tails of where a majority of people stand.

That, plus I think it is entirely possible scum might be encouraging this behavior so as to make it easier for them to hide behind this monolithic wall of inane nonsense.

HoS: AntiThesis

Scum Slip Up Alert! Sirens! Big flashing lights!
lol

Why are you simply waiting for someone to make a case, which you can hop onto, as opposed to making a case YOURSELF. If you are town, get some fecking motivation. Your laziness isnt going to help the game. If you are scum, i look forward to an impending town victory. You seriously think we're just going to let you get away with tagging along to others logic?

Conservative scum is my favourite

BM

[Battle Mage]

I am waiting for someone to make a rational, well thought case against someone else. So far, all I have seen is copious amounts of 'I think you are scummy for miniscule reason X' sort of posts and a bunch of wagon hopping. To wit I can make neither heads nor tails of where a majority of people stand.

That, plus I think it is entirely possible scum might be encouraging this behavior so as to make it easier for them to hide behind this monolithic wall of inane nonsense.

Why are you waiting for someone to do your job as a townie? Is it because you're not town, and need a strong BW to get behind?

townie points for also spotting this

@Dahill- Hi there! To be honest there isnt much pressing that you need to know about now. As far as im aware, not everyone is voting for Lloyd, nor is he about to get lynched. All that you need to do before you get on with your read of the game, is vote for Killa Seven so we can put a scummy guy under some pressure. You cool with that?

BM

[Battle Mage]

why? read through Killa's posts, and then tell me you dont think he is worth some pressure?

[Battle Mage]

Hmm i dont agree with the deadline concept at this stage, but as 2 weeks is quite a long time, i'll concede for now, as long as we get somewhere in the next week.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Conceed or not, it's what happening. If we don't get anywhere in the next week, what will you do? Complain?

Yes. I'll ask for a deadline extension. Duh!

I can tolerate the wagons on Andycyca and CKD. Both made 1 fairly scummy post, but tbh, i think we should be thinking about running someone up now. We dont have all the time in the world.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Yes! New page! Quick reply is back on the screen!

The 1 interesting thing I've noticed from that chart so far is antithesis has yet to make a vote.

I am waiting for someone to make a rational, well thought case against someone else. So far, all I have seen is copious amounts of 'I think you are scummy for miniscule reason X' sort of posts and a bunch of wagon hopping. To wit I can make neither heads nor tails of where a majority of people stand.

That, plus I think it is entirely possible scum might be encouraging this behavior so as to make it easier for them to hide behind this monolithic wall of inane nonsense.

HoS: AntiThesis

Scum Slip Up Alert! Sirens! Big flashing lights!
lol

Why are you simply waiting for someone to make a case, which you can hop onto, as opposed to making a case YOURSELF. If you are town, get some fecking motivation. Your laziness isnt going to help the game. If you are scum, i look forward to an impending town victory. You seriously think we're just going to let you get away with tagging along to others logic?

Conservative scum is my favourite

BM

Why am I waiting? Because I have no way of reading people who change their votes 3 times a week without botehring to attempt to justify it. My scumdar consists of gut feeling, and evaluating arguments.

To date, nearly every case made for or against anyone has been either weak, or out right fallacious.

Yet, surely some of the accussed must be scum. The sheer numbers involved would indicate as much. But the game, for me, has been like a bee hive.

And you are asking me to jump right in?

No thanks.

You are being ridiculous. If you think arguments made are weak, then maybe you should consider looking at those PUSHING THE WEAK ARGUMENTS? -.-

Its day 1. Dont expect incredible cases. we make do with what we have. There are enough small scumtells atm to at least warrant comment. By saying you arent going to contribute until the game reaches a later stage, you are little short of a confessed lurker, and frankly, we can do alot worse than get rid of deadweight at this stage.

There are PLENTY of arguments to evaluate, and if you are a gut feeling type person, you should have plenty of suspicions now. My guess is you just dont want to commit yourself until there is an opportunity to join a serious lynching wagon.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I agree with Anti.

unvote

We should make an informal policy or something saying that every post with a vote in it should have at least a paragraph of reasoning. Minimal posts should be regarded as scumtells.

We DO have an informal policy of that nature. Unreasoned votes are treated as scumtells. Its that simple!

Unfortunately for you, thats not what Antithesis appears to be getting at atall. He is saying that we should not bother commenting on these minor scumtells and votehops, because there isnt enough info to make a serious lynch. Guess what- there is a limit to how much information we can get on Day 1, without lynching someone at some point. Anti, if you are town you dont want to be lynched, so do yourself a favour and post some analysis please. Get at least some opinions down. If you think all cases so far have been shit, what does that make you think about those pushing them (most probably

me

in particular). Your stance is making you look scummy. Get your act together please. For the birthday boy?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Oh, I dunno, I may get around to making a case on someone when I feel pretty certain they are scum. Of course, my waiting isn't stopping you from doing the same, whenever you feel ready.

UR DOING IT WRONG.

But okay, I'll bite.

I think that is part of the problem I have with the current crop of 'suspects'. People seem more than happy to drop a vote on someone, but I have yet to see anyone actually push for/ make a case against anyone so far. Everything to this point strikes me merely as a vote of convenience.

I am waiting for someone to make a rational, well thought case against someone else. So far, all I have seen is copious amounts of 'I think you are scummy for miniscule reason X' sort of posts and a bunch of wagon hopping. To wit I can make neither heads nor tails of where a majority of people stand.

That, plus I think it is entirely possible scum might be encouraging this behavior so as to make it easier for them to hide behind this monolithic wall of inane nonsense.

So, at least you've been consistently looking for the easy wagon for over a month. This is day one. Let me say it again - THIS IS DAY ONE. Even with a night behind us, the entire purpose of today is to develop and look for the small reactions, the tiny links, the things that do not become obvious until a couple of days are behind us. Waiting for the case to be made, so you can get behind it is not scumhunting. In fact, it's what scum often do. There SHOULD be lots of votes thrown around, and lots of wagon-shifts today. This is not a problem, this is a good thing.

I am suspicious of everyone.

Aside from that, there is one person in particular I am watching at the moment, but I'd rather not say their name, at least, just yet.

This was almost a month ago. Who was it, and how do you feel about them now? You know what, it doesn't really matter, because this is the type of post I've seen that when a strong wagon begins to go you can point back at this, whomever it is, and claim you've been watching them.

"And a claimed Miller shall lead them..."

Chapter 8, verse 12, from the Book of What the **** is this ****!

Ooh, here's one of those minor things you love so much. Why "them" and not "us"?

What bothers me is the Cult.

Lets assume that they aren't dead, that there is a recruiter and a cult leader, as some Cults have.

Are you suggesting that if, in fact, the cult began with a leader and a separate recruiter, that both can recruit? Otherwise, why are you worried about them? The recruiter is the one who is dead.

unvote
vote: Antithesis

some of the logic here is shocking. You're

reaching

for the stars here, quite literally here. Even so, i think the vote is a sound one, so i wont complain at this point.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Anti, if you are town you dont want to be lynched, so do yourself a favour and post some analysis please. Get at least some opinions down. If you think all cases so far have been shit, what does that make you think about those pushing them (most probably me in particular).

I consider you to be a vey curious case.

On one hand, you have claimed Miller, early, making you suspicious to some, and on the otehr hand, you seem to be perhaps the most active person here in hunting scum, making you a target for a scum kill.

A fair assessment.

These two aspects, your claim, and your play, are seemingly in opposition. The less mindful among us may very well look at this and , in his or her confusion, think you are scum based upon this alone.

I dont think so. You see, claim and play are very different aspects of the game. I have to claim my role as it is. I acknowledge that its a very scummy claim, but it benefits the town more to come forward early. I cant help what the Mod gave me. My play on the other hand, is genuine. I'd base your opinion of me more heavily upon that than my claim alone, but then i WOULD say that.

However, what you are doing is playing a very dangerous game, where you must keep some suspicion on you, so that scum will want to keep you alive, and yet, you must produce results for the town, so they don't lynch you.

Much as i'd like to think otherwise, i highly doubt the mafia are going to try and waste an NK on a claimed vanilla. lol!

If the game were just Mafia and a SK vs the Town, then what you are doing... I have seen before elsewhere.

What bothers me is the Cult.

Lets assume that they aren't dead, that there is a recruiter and a cult leader, as some Cults have.

The game you are playing works perfectly if you are, in fact, a cultist. What better way to explain away potential investigations then claim a Miller. And being Cult, with a seperate win condition (I imagine) from the Mafia, you'd be more than happy to serve the Mafia up to be lynched, all the while quietly going about your recruitments.

ROFL. Yeh thats right. Im the last remaining Cult Member. Im basically a survivor from Day 1 onwards. So ya know what i do? I draw as much attention to myself as possible, making it virtually impossible for me to survive to anywhere near endgame.
I'm nearly wetting myself with laughter here!

Of course, it being day one, and with the early death of a cultist, and no one countering your Miller claim (yet anyways) everything points to you being what you claim.

I dont think a miller would hesitate to counter claim. lol
Why would he not want to be the hero of the hour by nailing scum at zero cost?
"The simplest explanation is often the correct one"- Lisa Simpson

However, as I mentioned in another post earlier, somewhere around day four or 5, if you are still alive, a hard look needs to be taken at your voting, and at your history in this game in general. Also by then, we may have a better understanding of the status of the cult. Understand that, even if you are a Townie miller now, I think claiming early makes you a damn near perfect target for recruitment later on.

Erm you are aware that the cult recruiter is dead right?

I have decided to take a wait and see approach to you.

I'm actually shaking in my boots.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Much as i'd like to think otherwise, i highly doubt the mafia are going to try and waste an NK on a claimed vanilla. lol!

I dunno, I think they'd try to kill you if you were tearing them a new one. I can already see you are starting to move into a leadership position here. In my experience, scum do not like town leaders.

But then again you did claim Miller, so we'll see.

should that happen, i think itd be pretty clear that we were onto something, and also that the mafia are comprised of retards.
But if you are correct, i hope i will recieve doc protection. ;);)

*directs power-roles*



BM

[Battle Mage]

You are being ridiculous. If you think arguments made are weak, then maybe you should consider looking at those PUSHING THE WEAK ARGUMENTS? -.-

This is a slightly different but related issue.

It strikes me that some are simply wagoning or posting to post, to seem active without doing anything at all.

My natural inclination is to think that this is scummy, but there are too many people doing it. To bring it home, so to speak, I cannot discern between people who are doing it because they are naive, against those who are doing it because its in their interests to do so. The only people who should be interested in playing this way, by page 30, are scum.

You can often differentiate by testing those who wagon multiple times without any real comment on that players scumminess. Without conviction if you will.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I don't want to lynch CKD day 1 as he's a good contributor, but asking for a deadline is very out of character from what I've seen of him looking around the site.

QFAT

[Battle Mage]

what was hard to read about Page 29?

[Battle Mage]

anderson: The suspicious thing was Lloyd was screwing around on page 29, not page 2. Derailing conversation is bad news bears.

bears?
rofl!

BM: Page 29 is the table of doom.

Oh. Nuff said.

BM

[Battle Mage]

You still haven't answered my question about your "quote" on your sig. Do you have proff that was said word for word by me because I take offense at slander.

Wow... you mean people actually read sigs here? I turn 'em off whenever I join a forum... usually they're useless.

i had mine switched off, until my own sig became so awesome that i had to look at it for 15 minutes each day.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I have to claim my role as it is. I acknowledge that its a very scummy claim, but it benefits the town more to come forward early. I cant help what the Mod gave me. My play on the other hand, is genuine.

What do you mean by "on the other hand"?

What are you comparing your play to? Your role, your claim, or both? My role and my claim are the same, DUH.

Was your role disingenuous or dishonest?

Was your claim disingenuous or dishonest?

I dont know what disingenuous means?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Semantically, if your play and claim are both genuine, then your "on the other hand" comparison makes no sense.

I'll try to illustrate...
---
play = genuine
claim = not genuine

They're on different hands.

Usage: On one hand, my play has been genuine. On the other hand, my claim has not been genuine.

*Sigh*

Give this some thought for a minute please. When evaluating a players affiliation, not everyone gives the same weight to claim and play. They are two different aspects if you will.

I dropped English earlier this year for a reason. I dont have the time or inclination to discuss the intricacies of grammar, unless they fit 1 of 2 criteria:

1. They are game relevant, and actually have a purpose.
2. They are humourous, and make me feel happy.

BM

[Battle Mage]

wow, TSN, demanding much. Anti's sig can stay as it is until an admin of the site has issue with it. Farside's not executing her complaint in the correct matter.

Lloyd, i think you're being nitpicky. BM's intention is clear, even though his word choice is not.

actually, i agree with Farside and SweatyPants. If the 'quote' in question did not actually occur, it is misrepresentation to present it with quotation marks in that way. It doesnt take alot to adjust it, and im sure Anti will once he gets a chance.
This isnt actually relevant to the game, so can we please move on?

BM

[Battle Mage]

who was it who said that Antithesis was SHY? 0.o

[Battle Mage]

Can we get back to relevant discussion please? Like who's scum? I believe the most recent subjects were Lloyd and Antithesis. I dislike Lloyd's lack of seriousness. However, I believe that Antithesis is a shy townie. Or something.

BTW, I'd support a retractable deadline.

There you go BM.

cheers.

FoS: Matt S

Also, Lloyd-are you claiming scum?
coz if not, please do us a fecking favour and vote for someone who you think might be scum.

[Battle Mage]

Agree with the prod request. Matt, what about my FoS dont you understand?

[Battle Mage]

*sigh*
this game just got a whole lot more difficult. :p

[Battle Mage]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]
People who make me cry multiple times:
Battle Mage[/quote]

Damn, i wish i had enough sig space for this.

BM

[Battle Mage]

not too shabby. I'm pleasantly surprised. I only got 1 scummy strike?
what was it for?

BM

[Battle Mage]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]The attack and immediate vote against Rosso[/quote]

I just reread the entirety of my posts, and as far as i can see, I didnt vote for Rosso at any time during the game. 0.o

[Battle Mage]

Matt, what about my FoS dont you understand?

The part where you FoSed me for referring to Antithesis's lack of votes as shyness.

Lol that wasnt the only reason, although i do consider that to be a strange conclusion to come to.

I'll find the post and point out the other scummy factors in a sec.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Can we get back to relevant discussion please? Like who's scum?

Anxious to see something happen. Often something i am guilty of as scum.

I believe the most recent subjects were Lloyd and Antithesis.

Subjects?
Do you find these players scummy, or do you just want to see more pressure on them because they arent your scumbuddies?

However, I believe that Antithesis is a shy townie. Or something.

If you think he is town, why are you suggesting that more people vote for him?
Or something?! wtf?

BM

[Battle Mage]

oh and Killa Seven is posting elsewhere, and even viewing the forum, but not posting here. just an fyi.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Can we get back to relevant discussion please? Like who's scum?

Anxious to see something happen. Often something i am guilty of as scum.

I believe the most recent subjects were Lloyd and Antithesis.

Subjects?
Do you find these players scummy, or do you just want to see more pressure on them because they arent your scumbuddies?

However, I believe that Antithesis is a shy townie. Or something.

If you think he is town, why are you suggesting that more people vote for him?
Or something?! wtf?

BM

1. Using your meta to come to conclusions about me?

Damn right. I think i'm pretty decent as scum. So, if i commit a scumtell regularly, i expect you would also fall for it aswell.

2. Subjects of discussion. As in "change your quote" arguments don't move the game forward. I'm trying to get things back on track.

Hmm, ok. I just find it hard to believe that you would, as town, choose to remind the others of suspicions of people who you dont find scummy.

@Farside-no i mean yesterday (since his last post here)

[Battle Mage]

K7 may be fairly useless, but that's sort of how he rolls. I don't see how that's any worse than, say, rosso carne. Or tlp. Who should be lynched. I'm just saying.

best post yet.

Anyone else would be insulted by TSPN's comment. Of course, because you care solely about survival, you are just relieved to see someone bailing you out, right?

@Lloyd- An interesting decision. Ive never seen anyone do that before in any game. You must have alot of faith in me as a scumhunter, and as far as affiliation goes. Or is this a test of sorts?

BM

[Battle Mage]

ok KScope.

@Lloyd- miller masons??

[Battle Mage]

Masons vote together?
what kind of wierd mechanic is this?
A mason can be a miller, but i dont get how a mason comes into it.

BM

[Battle Mage]

maybe he's saying that he is a miller and millers should stick together (like masons), so your vote is his vote?

lol if he claims miller, he is scum. A game with 2 millers is nothing short of a Bastard Mod.
My gut tells me that because Lloyd is getting a fair bit of heat for this, odds are the pressure is being fueled by at least 1 scumbag, and as such, its a probable towntell.

Though id still like an explanation of the miller-mason thing.

BM

[Battle Mage]

"And a claimed Miller shall lead them..."

Chapter 8, verse 12, from the Book of What the **** is this ****!

Just a quick meaningless mod opinion: Funniest Post of the Game so far. Keep up the good work!

I'm nominating this for a Scummy. If you agree that it was hilarious, please go here and vote:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 55&start=0



BM

[Battle Mage]

However, it might be fueled by a -bussing- scumbag.

I strongly doubt it. that scumbag would have to be particularly arrogant/stupid, to mess with what could be a profitable gambit.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Khelv, please can you do me a massive favour?
join the Killa wagon.

forever grateful,

BM

[Battle Mage]

its time we actually ran someone up, and so far, Killa Seven has does nothing to make me doubt the case on him.

I'm happy to take him to -2 and see a claim.

BM

[Battle Mage]

So are we letting Rosso Carne off because he's naturally unhelpful? I don't oppose the killa seven wagon, but I don't see why that's the best choice.

its called a meta. If it makes u feel better, ill pbpa him in a sec.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Vote: killa

Yeah, I'll join the wagon. Let's see if we can get a worth-while claim out of this.

what sort of claim would be 'worth-while' in your opinion Peers?

BM

[Battle Mage]

im being bandwagoned for voting lloyd when 5 other people were, how am i suppose to defend myself when thats the only reason im being bw? why dont any of u ask bm why hes tellin u to vote me.. this is getting rediculas

there are plenty of other people no doing shit in this game but im being targeted

..

can some of you ask me questions or something

i have 6 games going so bare with me.

Bolded mine. This is the attitude of yours that makes me think you are scum. Your vote on Lloyd was opportunistic, and the rest of your posts have all been highly dubious. Its like you arent actually hunting scum. This is supported by the bit in Italics (also mine). Its a naturally defensive stance. He isnt going to scumhunt-he thinks his sole purpose is to defend himself, and avoid lynch.

AKA scum.

with reference to the meta stuff, i can vouch for Rosso's odd playstyle, but the good news is, as scum, he is incredibly obvious and we should be able to nail him pretty easily within the next day or 2, if he is.
Killa on the other hand, is either scum, or town who simply doesnt understand the most basic concepts of the game. Frankly, im not buying the excuse.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Vote: killa

Yeah, I'll join the wagon. Let's see if we can get a worth-while claim out of this.

what sort of claim would be 'worth-while' in your opinion Peers?

BM

still waiting on a response to this.

BM

[Battle Mage]

having been on the recieving end of this fallacy, i agree with Armlx on this issue.

[Battle Mage]

this is shitelogic. You are making the assumption that people play intentionally scummy in the first place, and are thus easily able to change. If peoples natural play is viewed as scummy, it shouldnt be them who have to adapt, rather it is their fellow players who should learn to get a perspective on things. And tbh, if you come into games i play with some long term policy lynch strategy that will probably lose me a good few games, in the hope that one day, it might change something about that player, then you go on my official 'Evil' List. You cant lynch someone on the grounds that you cant read them and they COULD be scum, but you actually have no clue either way! -.-

BM

[Battle Mage]

I see no difference between the 2. The vig will kill if he finds someone scummy enough to kill them.

Agreed.

QFT

[Battle Mage]

ok Killa. Please just claim your target last night.
Then i have a request of you.

Unvote

BM

[Battle Mage]

no. different request. It vaguely involves the discussion on the previous page.

BM HAS A PLAN!!!! :O

[Battle Mage]

*sigh*

my plan works alot better with a claimed vig as opposed to a claimed SK. But ah well...

The flavour does sound alot like something Jordan would come up with, but its pretty obvious that the Shotgun kill is by a Vig, and not the 'brutally sliced up' one. rofl!

Id be happier if the actual vig would counter-claim at this point. That way we can be certain of Killa-scum, and have a confirmed innocent, and my scum-smashing plan can proceed!

Thinking about it, there isnt a single thing we can do with an SK atm. Cept lynch im.

Vote: Killa

lets end this day already.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I know Jordan has wanted to mod a Bastard Mod style game, and the flavour kinda fits, but every fibre of my being says that Killa is SK, and Jordan isnt that cruel.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I think reading too much into flavor is a Huge Mistake. The plan of letting the real vig kill him if he's lying is sound.

that plan falls very far short of 'sound'. Id rather not give an SK an extra kill if its all the same to you. -.-

BM

[Battle Mage]

except maybe we want our live vig to be able to hit a lurker, or another scumbag. Intentionally slowing ourselves down is a bad idea in my mind.

BM

[Battle Mage]

agreed. If everyone can post with 'not vig' unless they are the vig, thatll save time.

Not Vig.

[Battle Mage]

Not vig and waiting for K7' explanation (again)

eh? what explanation could he possibly give. I'm going to look into this counter further, but it looks like things are falling into place.

I also agree with Armlx that we shouldnt rush the end now. Get Killa near to lynch, and at least give us the easter weekend to discuss more.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Hmmm...Interesting development in farside...

Not Vig, first of all.

If Farside is the Vig...I don't think he should've claimed. Now we can lynch killa and he may by the vig, then Farside gets a kill and is lynched. 2 potential Townies to get at one SK?

Or we could let both live and they'll probably target each other...Still a Vig down, which I don't like.

I'm not saying Farside is lying, but claiming doesn't seem to be the best plan IMO.

It's either not claim and let a scum/ or SK free to kill again or not claim. I will take the free kill away from a SK any day.

By the way oEJo and TLP are my thoughts on potentional scum. Any thoughts on either would be apprieciated before the day ends.

Yes, i will need to talk to you about that soon Farside.

With regard to Imat, i think claiming was the best plan for a number of reasons. Your reason against claiming is faulty, as assuming Killa is the real vig, the SK just outted himself, in which case, the claim still more than benefits us!

Unvote

if ABR is right about the votes, id rather leave it there for now. I have more to say before we go to night.

BM

[Battle Mage]

im already on killa so no vote required.

FOS BattleMage

. If the rest of the town id going to claim not vig, that forces the vig to claim, which has happened. I would rather have left the decision in his hands

welll duh. thats kinda what i was aiming for. Id be very surprised if the Vig had a reason not to claim, which i wasnt aware of.

BM

[Battle Mage]

who did you target and why did you feel it was a good move to kill Night 0 witout any information?

I want an answer to this question before I unvote.

I dont understand this post. If he claimed your role, i dont see how his target claim would affect whether you find him voteworthy or not?

Please explain.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote. NOW. :X

Dont make me angry. Or you'll suffer.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Good. please nobody vote for Killa at this moment in time, i want to hear more from Farside before we think about ending things here.

BM

[Battle Mage]

farside is lying, id like to hear who she killed and why. if shes really the vig why not let her kill me at night and have no one protect me and vise versa? and how is her claim more believeable? i coulda lied and said yea i killed the bodyguard no i was truthfull, my kill was against a cult recruiter, and if their is a cult would they be alowwed to kill and with the mafia that would be 3 kills.

I think she already claimed that. The reason we would not let you both live is because:

1. It gives the SK an extra kill, which, with the current state of affairs, we seriously dont want!
2. Its possible that the SK has an additional ability, like a Roleblock, or NK immunity, in which case we would lose a vig for nothing.

Oh and we arent saying you lied about your kill. You did us a favour, and i for one am grateful. But, the aim of the game is to kill scum, and unfortunately, you are claimed scum. Oh and i dont see any evidence to suggest that the cult has a Kill.

BM

[Battle Mage]

farside is lying, id like to hear who she killed and why. if shes really the vig why not let her kill me at night and have no one protect me and vise versa? and how is her claim more believeable? i coulda lied and said yea i killed the bodyguard no i was truthfull, my kill was against a cult recruiter, and if their is a cult would they be alowwed to kill and with the mafia that would be 3 kills.

what possilbe motivation could she have to lie? if she is lying she would be either vigged tonight, or lynched tomorrow.

major QFT!

QFT Pyramid!

@Antithesis- no its not possible, again, unless this game has the most dastardly setup ever. Maybe a Vig and a Dayvig would fit, but 2 vigs plus a cult, SK and Mafia? That could be upto 5 kills on the first night, of which we only had 3. And 1 vig is claiming flavour, the other isnt.

So I'm 99.9% sure they arent both Vigs.

BM

[Battle Mage]

@BM Farside was a replacement, and, (I'm not re-reading atm) chances are she didn't have flavour sent to her. If your talking about farside not having flavour in her claim.

sorry, what was this in response to?


BM

[Battle Mage]

Right Farside. With deadline looming, its time to talk business. I believe you have already stated your 2 prime Vig targets for tonight. Speaking honestly, neither of them would have been my top choices.

Now i need to hear from you, how steadfast are you in keeping with 1 of these 2?
If i proposed an alternative target, would you consider it?

BM

NB: I know im directing the Vig here. But i have good reason dw.

[Battle Mage]

(SNIP)

@Antithesis- no its not possible, again, unless this game has the most dastardly setup ever. Maybe a Vig and a Dayvig would fit, but 2 vigs plus a cult, SK and Mafia?

That could be upto 5 kills on the first night, of which we only had 3. And 1 vig is claiming flavour, the other isnt.

So I'm 99.9% sure they arent both Vigs.

BM

Bolded mine. I have now re-read and have noticed that farside is willing to claim with flavour but killa has not responded about using flavour in his claim, so the question has less bearing on the game, unless you were talking about farside not wanting to claim with flavour (which isn't true).

Ah, i see what you mean. By flavour, i actually meant that 1 vig was claiming that he could choose his kill flavour, and the other wasn't.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Right Farside. With deadline looming, its time to talk business. I believe you have already stated your 2 prime Vig targets for tonight. Speaking honestly, neither of them would have been my top choices.

Now i need to hear from you, how steadfast are you in keeping with 1 of these 2?
If i proposed an alternative target, would you consider it?

BM

NB: I know im directing the Vig here. But i have good reason dw.

I'm willing to listen to idea, but I'm sure you understand I can't always agree because scum would like to direct the vig I'm sure. I would like to here your thought on who and why.

Ok i can live with that attitude.
Simply put, i think Lloyd should be vigged. At risk of looking really stupid if im wrong, id say i'm

95%

sure that he is scum. I'll try and explain why in a later post, as far as possible, but the root of the question i'm asking is:

Based on my play, how much do you trust me?

This might sound like an odd question, but i havent flipped (yet). Just go with me on this.

My thought are more on TLP based on my own evaluation.

TLP: Post 485 thinks its okay not to post much saying "1 peron a bit inactive won't harm". Doesn't seem to be really reading the game. Post 509 is basically following along with no thought of his own. Post 524 unvotes when pressed for comments. (look to see if game has deadline). Nope none found at this time.

Plus I don't get why he asked for a replacement now that there is no pressure on him. Just doesn't make sense.

I would say that would be a town-tell as opposed to a scum-tell...

BM

[Battle Mage]

Vote Count Updated. Two new replacements, Toaster Strudel replaces Incognito and jackalbane replaces oEJo. Please welcome both warmly.

TS? Oh shit... lol

@CKD- TS is the account used by DGB only when she is scum.

BM

[Battle Mage]

What is this page 1 votecount business? I can't go back and do my vote analysis! OMG, how am I ever going to find scum....

thank god. Maybe now you can hunt scum like a normal human being?

[Battle Mage]

Right Farside. With deadline looming, its time to talk business. I believe you have already stated your 2 prime Vig targets for tonight. Speaking honestly, neither of them would have been my top choices.

Now i need to hear from you, how steadfast are you in keeping with 1 of these 2?
If i proposed an alternative target, would you consider it?

BM

NB: I know im directing the Vig here. But i have good reason dw.

I'm willing to listen to idea, but I'm sure you understand I can't always agree because scum would like to direct the vig I'm sure. I would like to here your thought on who and why.

Ok i can live with that attitude.
Simply put, i think Lloyd should be vigged. At risk of looking really stupid if im wrong, id say i'm

95%

sure that he is scum. I'll try and explain why in a later post, as far as possible, but the root of the question i'm asking is:

Based on my play, how much do you trust me?

This might sound like an odd question, but i havent flipped (yet). Just go with me on this.

My thought are more on TLP based on my own evaluation.

TLP: Post 485 thinks its okay not to post much saying "1 peron a bit inactive won't harm". Doesn't seem to be really reading the game. Post 509 is basically following along with no thought of his own. Post 524 unvotes when pressed for comments. (look to see if game has deadline). Nope none found at this time.

Plus I don't get why he asked for a replacement now that there is no pressure on him. Just doesn't make sense.

I would say that would be a town-tell as opposed to a scum-tell...

BM

How is what TLP did a town-tell?
I don't trust many people, however seeing your play thus far and claim I'm leaning on believing your claim then not. I think those who over reacted to your claim bared looking at.

well asking to be replaced when you

arent

under pressure is far more townish than asking to be replaced when you are taking heat.

Ok, i appreciate your prompt response. Do you trust not just my affiliation, but my JUDGEMENT, enough to give me the benefit of the doubt on tonights vig choice.

The answer to this question will have a surprising significance to the game.

BM

[Battle Mage]

ill be the HAMMAH! on k7 at some point.

He's at minus one, the next vote is the hammer.

It's painfully obvious he's the SK. Tiny chance of a mafia goon. Zero chance he's town.

Someone hammer him already.

F**kin hell! Im glad i got here just in time.

TS, please stfu. Have you even read the game?

The day must not end yet.

Yes, we are lynching Killa today. We arent bloody retards. Have a bit of patience!!!!
Even if you dont understand that there is more to be discussed, give everyone else a chance.

Anyone who hammers him before i am finished talking, will be personally killed by me (yes i know i'm only a miller, but im friends with the Mod. It CAN be done! )

SO DON'T PUSH IT.

BM

[Battle Mage]

uhm...ts and bm, vote counts are at:
http://www.quicktopic.com/41/H/nGY8JmZW6Lbht

What is this page 1 votecount business? I can't go back and do my vote analysis! OMG, how am I ever going to find scum....

thank god. Maybe now you can hunt scum like a normal human being?

great. Now TS is gonna go chasing shadows for the next 50 pages....

BM

[Battle Mage]

Wait, what? Are you saying Farside is Scum now? I would've thought you'd call her the SK, not all the way to Scum...

SK is scum.

[Battle Mage]

A Night 0 kill of a random player?

Sounds like a serial killer to me, not a vig.

Vigs don't shoot Night 0. Serial Killers do. Mafia do. But not vigs.

vote: killa seven

Poor logic, and a ridiculous conclusion.

Firstly, had you read the game, you'd see that we'd already discussed why there is a certain case for vigging on Night 0. And regardless of that, when playing with newer players, is it surprising that some are a bit 'gun happy'? :p

Secondly, your lack of reading is embarrassing, as you have cast a vote on grounds that Killa claimed a N0 kill, WITHOUT EVEN COMMENTING ON THE FACT THAT FARSIDE HAS DONE THE EXACT SAME THING.

You claim to be ready to end the day, when you clearly dont have the slightest clue of whats going on in this game. This is kind of infuriating, as you're a respected player who people listen to, and you dont seem to be putting the effort in here.

I strongly reccommend you take your vote off Killa until you have at least read the game. I've said already that we are in no rush to go into night.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Here now and wondering about all this killa business everyone's talking about. Apparently he claimed vig and nobody believed him or someone else also claimed vig?

Can someone clear this up for me?

I could explain, but you're better off reading the game yourself. We're in no rush, so you can read it at your leisure. At least you have the sense not to vote until you have a half decent overview of the game.

BM

[Battle Mage]

i think its more than 50/50 that there's a SK (serial killer) since there were three kills on the first night. what everyone is arguing about now is whether or not killa seven is the SK. and if farside is lying as well or not.
so far, the main case is that killa seven is the SK because they usually slit peoples' throats when using the night action, and the vigilante (vig) shotguns people. plus, farside also claimed vig and it is unlikely there are two vigs. also, farside has no reason for lying because the real vig would just kill her the next night. so to conclude, it is generally accepted that killa seven is the SK and should be lynched today.

so vote for killa seven

NOT. YET.



Oh and while i read this, i recalled that this is Jordans first modded Large game, i think. As such, i dont think he would do anything MEGA-crazy...

BM

[Battle Mage]

ill post the flavour in my vig pm if farside posts her mafia role flavour pm.

I asked first. Deal with it.

@BM: I have my own thoughts on Lloyd so as I said before I will read your thoughts on it, but I make no promises, because I don't really trust anyone. Sorry it is mafia.

Ok, i'll put together the case on Lloyd now, as far as i can.

Ok, first and worst aspect of his play, is the particularly odd proxying of his vote to me. I thought about the mentalities behind this, and as far as i can see, here are the possible motives of Lloyd in doing this:

1. Lloyd is town, who wants to try an interesting long-term strategy in order to assess my affiliation and behaviour. This is a pretty weak scenario, seeing as i can see limited potential of such an investigation, and despite being asked on multiple occassions, Lloyd failed to claim that this was his intention, which as town, im sure he would have. Furthermore, as town, i'd be very reluctant to pass my vote (my 1 tool for hunting scum) to a player of unknown affiliation, on the grounds that i MIGHT be able to catch him as scum!

2. Lloyd is scum, who wanted to really suck up to me. At the time Lloyd gave me his vote, alot of people were paying attention to what i was saying, and i was leading the way to some extent. It makes perfect sense for scum to want to buddy up to a commanding town figure, and its possible that he also thought that by giving me his vote, i would like and trust him, and wouldnt push a wagon on him (using his own vote against him). It also makes it look like he is really hunting scum, when he actually isn't doing a whole lot.

I've thought through this in my head in some detail, and im finding it really hard to see him as town, based on this alone.

I'm sure there was more though, so i'll look into his posts in a sec.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Id say Whome is a better player than Lloyd imho. Just cant see his protown mentality for self-voting, expect perhaps that he thought Whome got away with it, so why shouldnt he.

BM

^Here is my response to Lloyd self-voting pointlessly. Another move of his which is very hard to see a protown motive for. In fairness, it did give us Killa-scum, but i just think that he got caught up in the moment, and followed Whome into a poorly lit trench.

[Battle Mage]

Semantically, if your play and claim are both genuine, then your "on the other hand" comparison makes no sense.

I'll try to illustrate...
---
play = genuine
claim = not genuine

They're on different hands.

Usage: On one hand, my play has been genuine. On the other hand, my claim has not been genuine.

*Sigh*

Give this some thought for a minute please. When evaluating a players affiliation, not everyone gives the same weight to claim and play. They are two different aspects if you will.

I dropped English earlier this year for a reason. I dont have the time or inclination to discuss the intricacies of grammar, unless they fit 1 of 2 criteria:

1. They are game relevant, and actually have a purpose.
2. They are humourous, and make me feel happy.

BM

Tries to instigate pressure on me based on semantics of grammar.

Another example i also spotted of him pretending to scumhunt was that table of votes he provided. Again, a nice original idea, but it didnt lead anywhere, or help us atall, and again, when questioned about this, he failed to respond.

BM

*also, sorry about the spurt of consequtive posts here. I just cant wait all day for others to post. If you can merge the posts concerning Lloyd together, thatd be awesome thanks!

[Battle Mage]

This is kind of infuriating, as you're a respected player who people listen to, and you dont seem to be putting the effort in here.

What? That's news to me. Seems to me, anything I say, players want to do the exact opposite.

Come on now. The throat-slashing is soooooooo SK.

Yes i know. Killa is scum. We know that because we've been playing for 46 pages. You on the other hand are wagonning on sub-standard logic, and still havent acknowledged Farside.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Ok, first and worst aspect of his play, is the particularly odd proxying of his vote to me.

Lloyd does that. He proxies his vote, and he self-votes. Look at his title. "Vote Lloyd" - that's where it comes from, his habit of self-voting. Early on, too. He doesn't hammer himself, he votes himself when there is a hint of a wagon on him.

Your analysis is correct, BM. Except when it comes to Lloyd. With Lloyd, all of this is nothing but a null-tell. I can think of a game where he did not proxy his vote, and did not self-vote. He was scum. I don't know how consistent his behavior his across the town-scum continuum. I would not read anything into it.

Thats an interesting revelation. Can you link me to some games of his?
I'm actually intrigued now.
I'll post the rest of my analysis anyway:

Not convinced about Lloyd’s ‘Miller-Mason’ comment either. Even his first post, is a vote for Khelv, with no reason given. Bearing in mind that the only random vote prior to this was by me, also on Khelv. Buddying again?
His explanation doesn’t make sense to me. Also, looking back, his vote tally table was created just after he want on a spastic voting spree, which kind of undermined any value it might have had. Post 25 by Lloyd is another odd 1. He accuses CKD of directing the Vig, CKD denies it, and Lloyd’s response is “Noted”. You mean he actually bought that with such ease? 0.o

Also, lets see if i can beat the 200-post mark for today. Im on 196 atm!

BM

[Battle Mage]

Post 25 by Lloyd is another odd 1. He accuses CKD of directing the Vig, CKD denies it, and Lloyd’s response is “Noted”. You mean he actually bought that with such ease? 0.o

umm, this is what happens when you read something in a vaccum...is that really what post 25 is about BM? Maybe you should reread that section in context (page 39)...

lol im not questionning your play here. The fact is, you told him something, and he believed it instantaneously, and without question-not based on any argument you put forward. Or is that out of context of the situation?

BM
BM

[Battle Mage]

Well, the title is the title, look up some old title fairy thread. That should be evidence enough that he self-votes.

And I've seen him proxy his vote to another player (MoS? Glork?) before. Best of the Internet? Himalayan mafia? Ask Lloyd, he probably can tell you which games.

Ok, Lloyd, or anyone in fact. Link me to as many of his games as possible. At least 1 as town and 1 as scum. Preferably short games. lol

Even his first post, is a vote for Khelv, with no reason given. Bearing in mind that the only random vote prior to this was by me, also on Khelv. Buddying again?

That's not evidence of anything.

Its a suggestion that something odd is going on.

What is Lloyd’s ‘Miller-Mason’ comment either.

So?

There is not real case against Lloyd, BM. He's being Lloyd. Why postpone the KS lynch? If KS turns out to be mafia, rather than SK, it's not going to look good for you, BM.

lol is that a threat?
Again, i'm going to humour you, as you obviously still havent followed my advice and read the game.

I pushed the wagon on Killa. I was the first vote, and encouraged a bandwagon until he claimed. Now ive unvoted, because we have about a week left until deadline, at which point he will be automatically deadline lynched anyway. There is no risk of him not dying today.

But, TS, please tell me this.
Why would i, as scum, bus my buddy as hard as possible for ages, only to suddenly stall his inevitable lynch at the very end?

Srsly, think over what you say before you say it. This is what i mean about you making a fool of yourself...

The reasons for continuing discussion are obvious. If you were conscientious town, you would see that.

Also TS, you cannot continue to defend Lloyd by saying "thats just Lloyd". Im not encouraging a policy lynch by any means, but you have to be able to differentiate between Lloyd-town and Lloyd-scum. Something you dont seem capable of, or at least, willing to try. Arent you concerned that at endgame, you're gonna look a complete tit, when it turns out that you protected a scumbag from day 1, on grounds of a flawed meta defence?

Thats what would be running through my mind, if i was TS-town at this juncture.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Even his first post, is a vote for Khelv, with no reason given. Bearing in mind that the only random vote prior to this was by me, also on Khelv. Buddying again?

That's not evidence of anything.

Its a suggestion that something odd is going on.

A random vote? Yeah, weird. I'm going to add this to my list of scumtells.

Did you investigate the explanation? thought not.

I pushed the wagon on Killa. I was the first vote, and encouraged a bandwagon until he claimed. Now ive unvoted, because we have about a week left until deadline, at which point he will be automatically deadline lynched anyway. There is no risk of him not dying today.

Good point, that's true. I'd forgotten we were on deadline. I stand corrected and humbled.

But, TS, please tell me this. Why would i, as scum, bus my buddy as hard as possible for ages, only to suddenly stall his inevitable lynch at the very end?

Because you are the one and only Battle Mage.

And he is the one and only Lloyd. Your point is?

you have to be able to differentiate between Lloyd-town and Lloyd-scum.

Yes, but the scumtells you are offering are Lloyd-null-tells. I agree that he should be scrutinized, but you have to ignore the self-vote and the vote-proxying. Coming from Lloyd, that's meaningless.

Thats not ALL you were encouraging me to ignore. I'd like to see those games if you have time to dig them out. However, if youd rather spend your time getting stuck into a read of the game, i'll understand perfectly. a Pbpa would be very nice.

BM