Mafia 75: Return of the Mafia! TOWN WINS (really late)

[Matt_S]

I'm going to

FOS: Battle Mage

. Yeah, he tried to start a bandwagon, but I was thinking the same thing he was when I read Nemesis's post. Granted I've never played in games with delayed anythings(or cults at all). One thing I am a little surprised by is his miller claim, but if he were scum then claiming miller after a cop dies seems a little dumb. If I were town and my cop died, I think I'd make sure that any backup cop doesn't waste any investigations. I think it's enough to be a little suspicious but I'm not going to vote him yet.

What confused me was that Battle Mage cast his initial random vote towards Khelvaster. Not suspicious since it is a random vote, but he says

I know there not a lot of love loss between you and I, but i'd rather if you're town, we dont interfere with each others scumdars in the game, by arguing and getting OMGUSsy.

Now this may be my inexperience talking, but I think if you want to avoid OMGUS then it's best not to vote for the person to begin with. To me it sounds like he's just trying to get Khelvaster to unvote to avoid a bandwagon on himself.

[Matt_S]

Hello everyone! This is not only my first game with a cult, but my first game. I've played mafia many times in rl, but I'm kind of new to forum mafia, so if I'm acting stupid, try not to accuse me of being scum.

Vote:Quickben

because he's 16th on the list, 16 syllables of eeny-meeny-miney-mo.

unvote

vote: andersonw

for not knowing the difference between a syllable and a letter. And for playing the newbie card.

Vote: VanDamien

, because he didn't mean letters. I don't know the term, but I guess beats is the closest word. Go through the rhyme up to "Fifty dollars every day". Sixteen little beats. And also for picking on us newbies

[Matt_S]

Yeah, I meant stressed syllables in the poem.

What he said. EEny MEEny MIney MO CATCH a TIger BY his TOE. IF he HOllers MAKE him PAY FIFty DOLlars EVery DAY. I believe that's all 16. And yeah that's probably not how the syllables divide up in the dictionary, but I don't care.

(I can't believe this is an argument)
.
.
.
But thanks for reacting, Matt.

(me either)

I may be looking into this too much, but your "thank you" sounds more like "I see your scum association". But anyways, I see your point in voting for him, but newbies asking for mercy isn't necessarily a scumtell. It's a newbie tell. I've asked people to go easy on me in non-mafia games. And both scum and townie newbs will probably ask for lenience. I guess I just sympathize with andersonw though.

Unvote VanDamien

[Matt_S]

what up im checkin in.. wow alot has been posted i was here at like 8 and it was still locked ayways im kinda drunk ill be back with my vote i gotta read slow

I believe you.

[Matt_S]

Unvote; Vote: Matt_S

I don't care much for the argument between letters and syllables but the bigger picture is your vote on VanDamien after he voted for andersonw seemed a bit too knee-jerk response-ish. I can't ignore that as just a newbie tell as you seem to be asking for.

I should have never done that, you're right. Andersonw wasn't in danger of being lynched so I shouldn't have done anything. That's why I unvoted, because I realized I overreacted. I just thought we had better things to discuss than a newbie saying he's a newbie.

[Matt_S]

what up im checkin in.. wow alot has been posted i was here at like 8 and it was still locked ayways im kinda drunk ill be back with my vote i gotta read slow

I believe you.

Who cares?

I should have never done that, you're right. Andersonw wasn't in danger of being lynched so I shouldn't have done anything. That's why I unvoted, because I realized I overreacted. I just thought we had better things to discuss than a newbie saying he's a newbie.

We do have better things to discuss, now. Like why you're leaping to someone else's defense then finding it necessary to believe killa publicly.

1. I probably should have put a smiley or highlighted the "I'm drunk" part.
   
2. Since when do we have to discuss defending someone? Isn't that already discussion? And I thought I already said I was overreacting.

Un-FoS Battle Mage

before more people bandwagon.

[Matt_S]

Ah, the crux of the question. Why would you overreact? So many possibilities. Furthermore, you say you shouldn't have done anything, well, in your words:

Andersonw wasn't in danger of being lynched so I shouldn't have done anything

Why would his lynch mean so much to you that you feel you would need to stop it if enough players in this large of a game were calling for it?

I overreacted partly because I'm in the same boat as him. I didn't want him to get lynched for saying something I didn't. Also, I've only played in really small games. In games as large as this one a single vote on someone isn't a threat, and I didn't think about that before voting.

And what makes you think his lynch means more to me than anyone else's lynch? If anyone was about to be lynched for a single post, I'd have to try and stop it. Would you let such a thing pass? According to the last vote count, only Battle Mage, Andersonw and I have more than 1 vote, and I saw that Rosso Carne just got a second vote. I FoS'd Battle Mage before because I seriously thought he was fishy. Now, several people have bandwagoned, hence me withdrawing my FoS. I really can't think of anything to say to defend him that hasn't already been said, and the same for Rosso Carne. Plus, the main thing I learned from voting for you is that I need to be more conservative with my votes.

[Matt_S]

EBMOP: Since that first two sentences above are really ambiguous, I mean I'm a newb and I wouldn't want him to be lynched for being up front about his inexperience when I didn't mention it.

[Matt_S]

Matt, I'm having a hard time with a lot of your posts. You seem to have this idea that too many votes on one person this early in the game is bad for any player. The number of votes you classify as being "too many" is a rather low number for this kind of set-up. We have 27 living players in this game and it takes one more than half the total number of living players to reach a lynch. This means that on Day 1 we need

14 votes

on one player in order to have that person lynched. The only time someone is

really

in any danger of reaching a lynch is when he or she begins reaching the L-2 and L-1 levels.

You, Battle Mage, and Rosso Carne each have 3 votes apiece and andersonw received some flak for playing the newbie card. Is there any reason you feel that the two players besides yourself shouldn't have the number of votes they've accumulated? Are they really in any real danger because they've accumulated 3 votes apiece? Further, how do you expect to gain information from players without getting a good, strong bandwagon going on them?

I overreacted.
For the games I played in the past, L-2 and just 2 weren't far apart, maybe off by one vote. It isn't easy getting used to votes just being thrown around. And it's not the bandwagoning I'm against per se: It's the lack of discussion behind it. Battle Mage claimed miller. If he was scum, it seems fairly dumb. If he's town, he's trying to get the most out of whatever cops we may have left. The people who are actually discussing the issues I have no problem with. But there's been some votes that are just "I vote BM because he's scummy". And Rosso Carne is tired of people mentioning the cult recruiter. He's not the only one, but because he (probably) joked about killing people who continue the speculation of what "delayed" means, he got voted. Yeah, I don't think they should have as many votes as they do, but like you said, they aren't in danger, and overreacting again won't do any good.

Things I don't like:

Matt_S's removal of FOS to stop bandwagonning.

Vote: BattleMage Seems suspicious...

Do you find this constructive? I don't, and I didn't want to associate with it. And it isn't like I'm the only one against the bandwagon; curiouskarmadog is against it, too. The only difference is that he didn't have an FoS on BM. I could speculate on what he would do if he had FoS'd BM, but that wouldn't be helpful.

[Matt_S]

It is constructive. If we never voted, never said anything about our suspicions, we'd have nothing to go on. For example, my vote stays on you because I dislike your play. Doesn't mean you're scum, but votes are a tool for starting discussion (especially Day 1).

In other news, the rosso carne bandwagon is a stretch, the bm wagon. . . well, in a sense, we have a guaranteed guilty investigation, but I agree, I don't really see why he would claim it so early. Of course, that can all be WIFOMed to death. I would say we could do a lot worse than lynching a claimed miller, but I'm not sold on it yet.

But for some people it's just "I voted because he's scummy". It's voicing suspicion, but there's no reasoning given. Reasons can be discussed, bus suspicion is entirely subjective. I wouldn't care if everyone who has voted so far had given reasons that could be discussed. I don't have a problem with people being suspicious of me, but when the reason is for me opposing empty votes I get a little edgy. Especially when I'm not the only one opposed to the empty votes.

[Matt_S]

How about mostly-empty votes? Because we don't have a whole lot to be going on this point, beyond BM's little "No, seriously, I'm a miller" bit.

How about random votes again?

[Matt_S]

Matt_S: The fact you used an FOS to do it was very sketchy. You weren't even really committed to the wagon. And your response about "not wanting to be connected" isn't helping.

Unvote, Vote Matt_S

Normally I don't like to cut established players slack for meta reasons, especially those based on what I deem bad play, but Matt_S is acting far too concerned about his every precise move. It seems kinda sketchy. And the over reacting scum tell rearing it's head.

Actually voting without reason is constructive as it's easy to spot trends. FOSing without reason is a lot more low key and inciting.

I've read a few games where people have been accused of being scum because they FoSed somebody who was being bandwagoned. Scum or town, looking scummy is bad. I've tried and failed at that I guess. And I don't know if the FoSing without reason comment is directed towards me or not, but I did have a reason: him voting Khelvaster yet not wanting OMGUS votes. And I had a reason to withdraw my FoS, too: BM explained his history, plus the bandwagon. I didn't see the bandwagon as constructive anymore.

I think this is a well reasoned assessment of the current state of the game, which says to me that you are following the game closely, you take it seriously, and you have adapted from the smaller newbie games to a 30 person game rather well. You seem to be replying often in response to questions from others, so you are also very actively involved in the game so far...
.
.
.

Is it really that difficult of a transition? It would seem to me that the different number of votes is a most obvious part to adjust to.

Actually, I haven't played newbie games here. A few years ago I played on another site. I try to stay active and respond because otherwise I wouldn't be playing.

I adjusted pretty quickly, actually. I just screwed up in my very first post, before I adjusted. From there it started to click, especially once more people voted andersonw and when people started voting for me.

Well the fact that even you arn't sure that it was a joke doesn't help him. And as for the speculation about the recruiter, it's discussion. I way prefer talking about something like that to talking about nothing.

I just hate the threat of "shut up or die"... Rosso contributed to the discussion with that? Plus he hasn't even responded to the post I voted him for, so it's not like the bandwagon has even got to the "worthy of defence" stage yet.

I don't do humor on the internet very well. I assume it's a joke because it's a dumb claim to make. Though that could just be what he wants us to think... Yeah, it's discussion, but it's about a dead guy. He could have recruits, but there could also be a second cult for all we know. I suppose there isn't much to discuss yet.

Yeah, he didn't contribute, but he's not the only one to not contribute. There's lots of lurkers. I think lurking is more suspicious that being angry. He may not need defense, but it doesn't hurt to discuss it.

[Matt_S]

... And my point goes right on by.

[Matt_S]

Since I'm too impatient to wait for someone to ask me to clarify my point...

There could be a cult recruit. There could be a second cult. There could be jesters. The only thing we know for sure we have a mafia family and a serial killer, and they night kill.

It's the same thing you said, VanDamien, yet I used a hypothetical example to prove that the speculation is worthless. It seems you think I'm actually trying to get people to believe the possibility of a second cult when I have stated before that the cult recruit speculation is a waste. You seem to enjoy trying to finger me by looking at a single one of my sentences instead of the entirety of my posts.

[Matt_S]

Just fixing some of my info: It was my second post where I voted VanDamien, not the first. I thought my FoS came before my vote.

[Matt_S]

VanDamien: Can you explain your newest vote on me? Did you honestly take my post to be a real suggestion that there's another cult?

Nemesis: At this point I don't see speculating as being helpful. Like you said, if we see a second cultist we'll do something, but at this point discussing the possibilities doesn't seem to have much point.

Peers: I'd also like to hear about your vote on Battle Mage.

As for Rosso Carne vs Battle Mage, I don't know enough to debate how the cult works, nor do I even want to. But I would like to see answers for the questions Battle Mage asked.

[Matt_S]

The only thing we know for sure we have a mafia family and a serial killer, and they night kill.

We know both of those are 100% true? How?

As for the SK, i'm pretty sure that the gruesome kill flavour belonged to an SK.

Probably but Matt said "we know

for sure

" there is a SK. There's no way to be 100% sure of this... Unless you are the SK.

Throat-Slit seems to be a pretty big tell. lol
Note also, the difference between the other 2 kills. I didnt notice before, but 1 is 'shotgunned' and the other is just 'shot'.

BM

A tell yes, but it's not certain. It could be a weird vig or anything... While it is probably a Serial Killer's kill, it isn't 100%. It isn't a fact we have a SK, therefore the guy who said speculation is a waste of time, was speculating himself...

Granted there's probably more chance of us having a SK than someone waking up tomorrow to find out they've been culted, but neither are certain and they both have a fairly good chance of being true.

Speculating and making logical assumptions aren't the same. Yeah, I'm not 100% sure, but I don't see how you could argue otherwise. I don't see why you'd even want to bring it up. Do you have any reason to believe these assumptions aren't true other than the small probability of something out of the ordinary?

[Matt_S]

random?

No; it was in response to your unvote.

I highly, highly doubt that we have two cults. That would be degenerate in this kind of game.

I agree.

I guess I should wait like everyone else.

Hm. I really don't want to vote for anybody without watching this a bit farther.

Not sure on who to vote yet.

If everyone waits, then we'll never lynch today, and no lynch is a bad idea on day 1.

Unvote

Vote: VanDamien

Your second post, and you reply to a direct question to you, agree with a logical statement, and tell the town that a no lynch is bad. I've been sitting back after my first vote since there was lots of stuff going on, but I think you're trying pretty hard to sound useful without contributing. Your vote also doesn't seem to be anything more than random. I'll follow your advice.

Vote Lloyd

[Matt_S]

Unvote, Vote Nanosauromo

It looks to me like you were just looking for a reason to throw out a vote. Rosso Carne already explained it, and people pointed out that TheSweatpantsNinja was lurking, so I'm assuming you ignored or maybe just missed the fact that he was one of those lurkers he wanted to pressure.

[Matt_S]

Since the only new discussion is meta stuff which I don't know about, I don't have much to add. I probably would have vigged night 0 simply because there's so many people and, like Khelvaster said, a miskill wouldn't be that big hopefully, but a scum kill would rock.

And thanks for the happy birthdays.

[Matt_S]

I don't like how we're going back to BM's miller claim, mainly because I don't think we can get anywhere with a bandwagon on him. As for oEJo, I don't like his vote on thenextepisode, but that's just my personal preference. As for thenextepisode himself, he's just someone who showed up in the middle of everything. I don't see either of them as being scummier than anybody else.

Anyway, back to BM. I don't think his miller claim is that bad. Looking from the perspective of him being a townie, he's trying to save any backup cops from wasting investigations. Looking at him as being scum, he's pulling some WIFOM. I can see how it's not good taking him to the endgame, but I don't think he's scummy enough for a lynch on day 1.

[Matt_S]

My opinion on Lloyd: He has an odd standard for what's considered vote hopping. I haven't seen anything that I'd consider vote hopping by VanDamien, but of course everyone has different perceptions.

My opinion on oEJo: I think votes require a little more than an "I agree" to go with them at this point in the game. Some are saying that was scum association, but I'm not suspicious of VanDamien at the moment, so it seems like a stretch.

My opinion on scum lists and townie lists: I don't see how it does much more than what votes and FoSes do. Plus people brought up the WIFOM for scum killing the good townies. I don't see it as being helpful, but I don't see suggesting it as being scummy.

My opinion on the continued Battle Mage thing: WIFOM. There's nothing more to it than that, but I don't see a miller claim as being more pro-scum than pro-town, which is me drinking that wine. There's more WIFOM around every corner.

My opinion on the Jester talk: I'd prefer we avoid discussing the possibility until someone appears to be one.

My opinion on people saying I'm useful: I work better under pressure, and not much has been going on lately so I'm not doing anything groundbreaking.

In summary, I want to hear more from some of the people under suspicion before I change my vote.

[Matt_S]

I dont know anymore if I believe the BM claim or not, but lynching him today is a waste of a lynch (today anyway).

I support this position on BM. I also don't think armlx is scum. I would not be opposed to a nano lynch, but then, as has already gotten me in trouble this game, I support lynching lurkers.

I totally agree.

FoS: SweatPantsNinja

First person to tell me why i did this earns

vote immunity

from me for the duration of the day.

BM

I'm going to step up to the challenge, just for fun.

I'm pretty sure it's not the lynching lurkers thing, because that's too obvious to give out vote immunity for.

Not lynching a miller so that they could potentially lynch a power role or force a power role to claim? But that applies to all claims that aren't power roles, so it seems unlikely.

Naming who he thinks is innocent rather than who he thinks is scum? He's not the only one to do that though. I'll have more guesses later.

[Matt_S]

I think we need more pressure. And less lurkers.

[Matt_S]

WHEE!

agreed.

kill: thenextepisode

hmmm last time i saw you do this in stargate mafia, you turned up scum.

Has anybody played in a game where Rosso Carne was town? I'm getting the feeling this is just how he is.

[Matt_S]

why is the Killa Seven BW any better than a Nano BW?

both are good but Killa Seven is more likely to slip up imho.

FoS: Battle Mage

I know I said you were town before, but seriously, I have to have my limits. You just said that Killa Seven is more likely to break under pressure, not that he is scum. If he breaks under pressure, that's an easy lynch. That's not necessarily a scum lynch.

What armlx said. Killa seven was the one who used the term "break".

[Matt_S]

Since the only new discussion is crack vs break...

Mod: Can we get prods?

[Matt_S]

List of inactives:

andersonw
Charity
GSGold
Nanosauromo
oEJo
QuickBen
skitzer
Tlp

[Matt_S]

Unvote, Vote Tlp

I'm switching wagons until Nano gets replaced or decides to post. I'm tired of waiting.

[Matt_S]

Matt, why are you voting tlp? why do you think everyone else is voting him?

I'm voting him because he follows a bandwagon without seeming to have any real suspicions. And the "oh noes, people are looking at me! unvote" thing. And of course he's here while Nano isn't. As for everybody else, it's probably a mix of my reasons and shameless bandwagoning.

[Matt_S]

Unvote, Vote Tlp

I'm switching wagons until Nano gets replaced or decides to post. I'm tired of waiting.

Unvote, Vote: Matt_S

Switching Wagons? What?

I want to vote somebody who will actually be here to defend himself. Nano isn't here, and I want to get something done.

[Matt_S]

Matt S pinged my scumdar with his vote. Once we get a half decent explanation from Tlp, i think he's a good choice for our next dose of pressure.

I got tired of voting for someone who wasn't even playing anymore. I wanted to put pressure somewhere useful. Plus, now that Nano's being replaced, the replacement won't be able to give any answers until he/she reads the whole topic.

[Matt_S]

lmao

just to fit in

On a serious note, I'm disliking Lloyd again.

FoS Lloyd

. I can't really think of a reason for someone not to comment on who they find scummy. I also looked back on his vote for Nanosauromo.

Pressuring lurkers is Good For The Town

It's been 20 days since you last posted...

Vote: Nanosauromo

After that, Lloyd disappeared for a week. I'm still fine with my Tlp vote though.

[Matt_S]

Tlp last posted two days ago. It's a little early to ask for a prod.

[Matt_S]

If you want, I can claim now and save us time. It's not hard for me to prove it.

[Matt_S]

Shh. I'm hunting role fishers.

[Matt_S]

if your willing to claim sp free;y, your role isn't that special? I'm confused. Maybe I'm still newbie. What's a role fisher? is it a scumtell?

Role fishers are people who try to get others to claim. They are usually scum who are trying to find power roles to kill.

[Matt_S]

How you choose to interpret my actions is up to you. And how you interpret everyone's reactions is up to you.

[Matt_S]

Still waiting on Matt's claim.

Judging from the reactions so far(and the three votes on me) I'd say most people don't want me to claim, or are at least afraid to come forward after my "double reverse psychology with a twist". But I am curious. Do you think that you could actually get a large bandwagon on me? Because right now I have three votes, and people aren't exactly piling on. If you still wish to pursue me, put together a strong case and I may claim early. Otherwise, I may have an alternative.

Sounds like Matt is trying to bluff us into not pursuing it further. Not buying it.

Agree, why shouldn't he claim?

Why

should

I claim? If you think I'm suspicious, then vote for me. If you're role fishing, then be a little more covert next time.

Unvote, Vote Andycyca

.

[Matt_S]

unvote, vote: Matt_S

willing to give you the pressure you want

So, do you actually find me suspicious, or are you just eager to get a claim? How about RossWilliam for an alternative wagon?

[Matt_S]

0 – Strange that even though he give an airtight case for thinking im town, that he would FoS me. Seems like he is just going with the flow a bit. The rest of his post is fair enough.

The reasons I defended you and the reasons I FoSed you were different. I FoSed you because of the way you interacted with Khelvaster.

1- Last phrase is indicative of playing the newbie card.

I never intended it to be taken that way, hence the crying smiley, but I can see why you'd think this.

5- A weird post all round. I cant make any sense of it. He takes a FoS off me, on the grounds that more people are bandwagonning. But wait a cotton-picking minute! An FoS doesn’t count towards a bandwagon!
Im reading distancing from a mislynch and bailing from a hot wagon all over this…

I think I said this later, but I read part of one game where someone was under suspicion for quietly following a bandwagon with an FoS.

8- Logical post. Townie points here.

I couldn't agree more

28- Lynch happy.

You mean bandwagon happy. I wanted to put pressure on someone who would reply.

[Matt_S]

stuff

this does not make you sound less scummy to me. 0.o

more stuff

No i mean Lynch happy. You wanted to vote for someone who you could conceivably get a claim from, and hence, lynch.

BM

No matter who you are, it's good to not have a rope around your neck. As for the second part, I guess you can interpret it however you want.

[Matt_S]

Unvote

A reread of Rosso Carne reminded me that I haven't liked anything he's done so far.

stop talking about the cult recruiter. he's dead, and now there is no cult.

the next person who talks about the cult recruiter as if its going to help the town to do so is going to be personally murdered.

meh, im not sure about the whole failed recruit thing. it seems like more of an SK mode of killing to me.

shotgunned strikes me as very vig-like.

First, telling people to stop speculating. Second, speculating about the recruiter's death. Third, speculating on the shotgun kill. Each one individually I didn't find that bad, but put together he seems to be fairly inconsistent.

Vote Rosso Carne

[Matt_S]

here.

still happy.

Any response to suspicion towards you?

[Matt_S]

Am I the only one who is getting fed up with Rosso Carne?

[Matt_S]

Everyone is, we just live with it.

I see two possible meanings in this
1. I complain too much, which I agree with.
2. We shouldn't be suspicious of him, which I disagree with.

[Matt_S]

I think I'll

unvote

since people don't seem to worry about Rosso Carne. I do think I'll

Vote Andycyca

for the role fishing other people and I have mentioned.

[Matt_S]

Can we get back to relevant discussion please? Like who's scum? I believe the most recent subjects were Lloyd and Antithesis. I dislike Lloyd's lack of seriousness. However, I believe that Antithesis is a shy townie. Or something.

BTW, I'd support a retractable deadline.

[Matt_S]

Can we get back to relevant discussion please? Like who's scum? I believe the most recent subjects were Lloyd and Antithesis. I dislike Lloyd's lack of seriousness. However, I believe that Antithesis is a shy townie. Or something.

Are we forgeting Killa seven who never answered anyone's questions and fell off the face of the internet?

Mod:

prod killa seven please.

@Battle Mage: lolwut?

[Matt_S]

[quote="Battle Mage"]Matt, what about my FoS dont you understand?[/quote]
The part where you FoSed me for referring to Antithesis's lack of votes as shyness.

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Hi.

Vote: Battle Mage

Give me some time to do a reread.[/quote]

lolwut?

[Matt_S]

Whoa, settle down. So, killa seven, any scum hunting that you'd like to do?

[Matt_S]

Can we get back to relevant discussion please? Like who's scum?

Anxious to see something happen. Often something i am guilty of as scum.

I believe the most recent subjects were Lloyd and Antithesis.

Subjects?
Do you find these players scummy, or do you just want to see more pressure on them because they arent your scumbuddies?

However, I believe that Antithesis is a shy townie. Or something.

If you think he is town, why are you suggesting that more people vote for him?
Or something?! wtf?

BM

1. Using your meta to come to conclusions about me?
2. Subjects of discussion. As in "change your quote" arguments don't move the game forward. I'm trying to get things back on track.
3. I don't remember ever telling people to vote for him. "Or something" refers to other explanations of Antithesis's behavior other than being a shy townie, which was largely sarcasm.

[Matt_S]

I dislike Lloyd's proxy vote very much. It seems like an excuse to lurk since the vote will still be moving around.

[Matt_S]

Question: Why are we pursuing killa seven over people like Rosso Carne?

[Matt_S]

So are we letting Rosso Carne off because he's naturally unhelpful? I don't oppose the killa seven wagon, but I don't see why that's the best choice.

[Matt_S]

So are we letting Rosso Carne off because he's naturally unhelpful? I don't oppose the killa seven wagon, but I don't see why that's the best choice.

its called a meta. If it makes u feel better, ill pbpa him in a sec.

BM

This sounds condescending. You make me sad.

[Matt_S]

Ok, not that everyone has the same opinion, but I'm really getting tired of people hiding behind the Meta. How people play the game takes a conscious effort. Therefore its not all too difficult to change the way you play. There's no possible way you can disregard Scumminess on the wisdom that "This is just how they play." So What? If thats how they play, lynch them every game. Scumminess should not and can not be ignored because thats just how they play. If they're lynched for playing like that, lesson learned. If not, we come to this situation where they could act as Scummy as they want and people will DEFEND them. Meta is NO excuse not to lynch. For all of you who believe Meta is equivalent to the Bible of Mafia, you're only making it harder for the Town to win. So please, lose the Meta idea that seven and Rosso, or any other player for that matter, are untouchable, it should not be considered at all in this lynch. And, back to my comment that play style can change: If they play as Town and act a certain way, whats stopping them from acting that same way as Scum with the knowledge that people will see this and say "Hey, they must be Town again." The only the holding them back is their own intelligence, and to insult that would be condescending. In other words, they ain't dumb, don't treat them as such.

And armlx, what about those two comments makes them "Good posting?" Do you have nothing of your own to add?

Wow...this is the most manipulative post I've seen. Ever. You are trying to convince us that, in this game, it's best to lynch someone who we believe is town so that in other games those people will act better. I don't buy it. You're chasing a quicklynch.

Vote: Imat

I agree with Imat to an extent. It's bad to let someone scummy go just because they are always scummy. Of course, they don't have to be lynched Day 1, but I can't fathom allowing Rosso Carne and killa seven to make it to the end game.

[Matt_S]

@Anyone with a killa seven meta: What does he act like when he is scum? Is it any different, or is a killa seven lynch basically always random?

[Matt_S]

not vig, laptop charger broken, posting from Wii, lynch killa seven.

[Matt_S]

Assuming Albert can count properly,

unvote, vote killa seven

. Even if killa seven can decide his kill method, that doesn't prove the protown part.

[Matt_S]

Sorry to double post, but my replacement laptop ac adaptor magically arrived in 1 day instead of 4-6!

[Matt_S]

I'm looking at Peers for tomorrow. His last two posts are perfect to explain my suspicions.

Vote: killa

Yeah, I'll join the wagon. Let's see if we can get a worth-while claim out of this.

He was questioned a lot on what would be a worthwhile claim, yet he never answered. And it sounds like he's only wagoning in order to get a claim.

We still have a week to talk people, no need to lynch right now.

Translation: "Hey, maybe if you guys ignore my scumbuddy you'll convince people to lynch a hapless town role instead", right?

Translation: "I can't let this guy hunt more scum or I'll be dead tomorrow!"

[Matt_S]

Battle Mage: Why are you so sure that Lloyd is scum?

[Matt_S]

If killa's next post doesn't contain his supposed flavor, I'll be very unhappy.

[Matt_S]

We are still looking for a replacement. Deadline is still in 3 days.

Request Deadline Postponement till a Replacement is found.

BM

2nd.

3rd. Don't need any more dead power roles.

[Matt_S]

It must suck replacing into a game where everyone's ready to kill you.

[Matt_S]

Oh gosh, I go to New York for a few days and I have like 10 more pages to read through. Could someone maybe give me the important highlights? What did killa seven do to get a bunch of people voting for him?
I'll try to read through this tomorrow, when I'm not feeling so groggy.

Killa was scummy, we put pressure, he claimed vig, he claimed the throat slashing, real vig counterclaimed, serial killer about to be lynched.

[Matt_S]

I have no reason to believe he is scum a have not looked at a single of his posts yet.

It was more of a joke seeing as the alternative is me.

Oh sure, suggest a random target for the vig.

[Matt_S]

why not use me to kill who u guys want to kill vig 2 summy people instead of one. both of us cant be role blocked.

Because you're dead anyways. You have no incentive to help us, so we have no incentive to help you.

[Matt_S]

I have no reason to believe he is scum a have not looked at a single of his posts yet.

It was more of a joke seeing as the alternative is me.

Oh sure, suggest a random target for the vig.

1: It was pretty much a joke.

2: Given a choice between choosing to die when you are 100% sure you are town vs lynching someone you are not 100% sure is town, it would take someone pretty suicidal to favour their own death.

The point is that he refused to actually scumhunt.

[Matt_S]

Xtoxm openly refused to scumhunt today. I think I was pretty nice about that.

[Matt_S]

I'm looking at Peers for tomorrow. His last two posts are perfect to explain my suspicions.

Vote: killa

Yeah, I'll join the wagon. Let's see if we can get a worth-while claim out of this.

He was questioned a lot on what would be a worthwhile claim, yet he never answered. And it sounds like he's only wagoning in order to get a claim.

We still have a week to talk people, no need to lynch right now.

Translation: "Hey, maybe if you guys ignore my scumbuddy you'll convince people to lynch a hapless town role instead", right?

Translation: "I can't let this guy hunt more scum or I'll be dead tomorrow!"

Yeah, I've convinced myself.

Vote Peers

[Matt_S]

vote: Battlemage

So, I'm sorry to everyone i blew up at about the cult. I figured I'd throw my power out there night 1 and got a guilty on BM.

Have you read anything? At all?

[Matt_S]

BM claimed miller on the first page.

[Matt_S]

And double wtf.

3) Tarhalindur, Cop, Shot Night 0

[Matt_S]

I've got to clear this up now. Rosso, are you our backup cop who claimed after getting a guilty on the claimed miller?

[Matt_S]

i think Rosso might be claiming Cult Cop. Or at least i hope he is.

Thats what I assume as well.

It would be a lot less frustrating if Rosso were to actually say that.

[Matt_S]

I also want to hear from Rosso. As well as Xtoxm.

[Matt_S]

I can't believe that Rosso is actually town. If he is town, he either missed the whole miller thing, or thought it was irrelevant to cult investigations. I'd imagine miller roles would say something vague like "you show up as guilty", so I'd think cult cops would view it as guilty as well.

[Matt_S]

I'm disliking the BM/Nemesis conversation. I'm getting vibes from Nemesis that seem to be saying "I know BM is town."

I am saying that the mafia saw what you didn't seem to have seen

It gives me a bad feeling.

[Matt_S]

I'm really starting to dislike Nemesis's "I saved the vig" defense.

[Matt_S]

You keep finding stuff I say to dislike. My disclaimer here is when I said "it probably had no effect at all". Keep searching though, I'm sure you'll find something.

You aren't using logic. You admit that it probably did nothing to help the vig, yet you are still using it to defend yourself. I find that scummy. And I don't have to keep searching, because I've already seen enough.

[Matt_S]

Vote Rosso Carne

. Not having an investigation Night 0 is just dumb. And he says BM ought to be vigged for being scum, yet he's voting for him on the premise that he's cult. Nothing about his play makes sense.

[Matt_S]

Forgot to unvote.

Unvote, vote Rosso Carne

[Matt_S]

Also, i need to decide who i'm gonna hide with tonight...

lolwut?

[Matt_S]

You really confuse me a lot sometimes.

[Matt_S]

You really confuse me a lot sometimes.

i claimed Miller-Hider yeh?
So i need to hide somewhere tonight, preferably with someone who isnt gonna be Vigged.

Kapish?

BM

Your fatal flaw was thinking I'd read all of your long posts.

[Matt_S]

Yeah, I'm 100% down with this lynch.

[Matt_S]

I want to know why people are against the Rosso lynch.

Srsly, it looks like a sure lynch to me.

[Matt_S]

I really, really don't get how "Rosso has done the exact same thing in the past" isn't convincing. Same goes for claiming to have investigated in alphabetical order, yet investigating armlx first. And the whole BM is a claimed miller, so he should show up guilty to investigations. It's not that I don't have doubts about Rosso being scum. It's that lynching Rosso scum helps us more than letting Rosso town live. Of course, if you find any obvscum, I may switch my vote.

[Matt_S]

Here's why I thought Rosso's response to the wagon on him was good: He didn't mindlessly attack another player in order to save himself. I've seen Scum do it plenty before. I felt his response of "I tried to claim, I tried to help, but people still went after me" was more Town than Scum, though I suppose thats opinion isn't it.

I lol'd considering Rosso claimed just to try to get BM lynched.

[Matt_S]

Alright. I think RC is town, and I think approximately 13 of you are wrong. But I'm outvoted, so moving on.

Lol, appeal to majority. "I'm against this wagon, but I will distance myself from it while simultaneously giving it my consent."

[Matt_S]

Alright. I think RC is town, and I think approximately 13 of you are wrong. But I'm outvoted, so moving on.

Lol, appeal to majority. "I'm against this wagon, but I will distance myself from it while simultaneously giving it my consent."

im against the agon also.
also you lol'ing at him for not joining the wagon without providing much, is the same as u hopin on the wagon and not providing your own views.

You seem to have missed the part where I listed a ton of reasons why I think Rosso is scum. And the part where I called TSPN out for straddling the fence, not for being against the wagon. And the part where I accused him of quitting just because people disagreed. I think there's more I can bring up, but I'll just

FOS killa seven

for that weak defense of TSPN which seems an awful lot like a strawman.

Matt_S tripped my scumdar a little bit yesterday, and just now, I find the "rosso claimed just to get bm lynched" curious. You know that, matt? For a fact? How do you know? Also, you read the last couple pages again and tell me "I'm giving this wagon my consent." Nothing would make me happier than for people like you to unvote.

Because he claimed when he alleged to have a guilty on Battle Mage

. How can you possibly argue against that? Srsly! And how are you not giving the wagon your consent when you stop searching for an alternative?

FOS TheSweatpantsNinja

[Matt_S]

WIFOM

Other than that, all I can say is that it ignores the possibility that Rosso is acting without consulting his partners, or that Rosso is the cult recruit.

There was supposed to be a sentence that read,

Unvote, vote matt_s

at the bottom of that instead of a bunch of empty space.

I'd OMGUS vote you, except that looks kind of like what you're doing now.

[Matt_S]

So Rossoscum apparently relies on Rosso being abysmally stupid. If he's town, then he investigated the claimed miller. Tell me that's not abysmally stupid. I have no intention of further fighting the WIFOM defense of Rosso. Why? Because it's WIFOM.

[Matt_S]

This game has random mafia kill methods, including poison. So poison killing isn't necessarily a cult thing. However, given that we still have three kills after lynching the serial killer, something's definitely up. The cult recruit having a kill would explain pretty much everything.

On another note, I was debating with myself whether to go back to Peers, or follow through with my suspicions on killa seven or TheSweatpantsNinja. Given that killa seven does seem to be naturally scummy, I'll leave him alone for now. And since I fear a chain of OMGUS if I vote TheSweatpantsNinja now, I'll

Vote Peers

. He slipped away when Rosso's lynching came up. For your convenience, my initial points against him:

I'm looking at Peers for tomorrow. His last two posts are perfect to explain my suspicions.

Vote: killa

Yeah, I'll join the wagon. Let's see if we can get a worth-while claim out of this.

He was questioned a lot on what would be a worthwhile claim, yet he never answered. And it sounds like he's only wagoning in order to get a claim.

We still have a week to talk people, no need to lynch right now.

Translation: "Hey, maybe if you guys ignore my scumbuddy you'll convince people to lynch a hapless town role instead", right?

Translation: "I can't let this guy hunt more scum or I'll be dead tomorrow!"

Yeah, I've convinced myself.

Vote Peers

[Matt_S]

Chain of OMGUS? I dont understand.

I vote TheSweatpantsNinja, he votes me. Killa seven also votes me to be consistent with his stance yesterday. Then I vote killa seven. People start getting mad at me, I vote them, etc.

[Matt_S]

Chain of OMGUS? I dont understand.

I vote TheSweatpantsNinja, he votes me. Killa seven also votes me to be consistent with his stance yesterday. Then I vote killa seven. People start getting mad at me, I vote them, etc.

you sound guilty, i never voted you or fo'd you, i only called you out on one thing. you look very scummy at the moment. i dont remember you voting for me yesterday, dont confuse killa sven 1 with killa seven 2 thank you.

I'm telling a story of what will happen, not of what already did happen. I'm free to add any creativity I want to prophecies.

Mind you, fear of confrontation is kinda scummy Matt...

Then vote for me. Just because I don't think voting for TheSweatpantsNinja now will lead to anything constructive doesn't mean I'm afraid of confrontation. OMGUS voting is hardly real confrontation anyways. It's just a distraction.

[Matt_S]

upon rereading khelvaster (animorph), he was always wishy washy about BM. one post he would be defending BM, the next attacking him.

Indeed, and I am EXTREMELY leery of the Miller/Hider claim, that's the kind of claim that's just tooooo scummalicious.

The Miller/Hider claim explains two of the problems that scum might encounter in a game. The first problem is that they may be investigated and found guilty. Conveniently, BM declared himself a miller. The second problem is that the scum must explain his continued survival night after night. This is especially important if we have living vig, and the miller doesn't get nigthkilled and continues to live. So "hider" and "miller" makes a perfect combo for a scum claim.

Also, I see BM is very active and scheming. That's his scum persona, not his town persona.

The Miller/Hider claim is the real clincher. I don't believe it. I believe that BM is just plain scum.

vote: Battle Mage

Please 'splain Rosso's guilty on him first.

[Matt_S]

Dear dahill1,

Please 'splain Rosso's guilty on him first.

[Matt_S]

Please 'splain Rosso's guilty on him first.

Duh, BM is scum?

Like Goofball says.

You made a lot of points about BM being mafia though, such as his survival during the night. There's no way for the mafia to know BM's a cultie, so BM not getting killed is hardly evidence against him.

[Matt_S]

I also really want to hear matt_s' explanation as to why I'm scum.

I could swear I already explained this.
1. You said that you thought Rosso was town, but you gave up on defending Rosso, instead looking for a vig target. Implicit consent and distancing at the same time.
2. Your defense for Rosso not being scum is that he wasn't insanely stupid. Yet Rosso did something insanely stupid. You didn't respond to this point yesterday.
3. You argued that Rosso didn't necessarily want to get BM lynched. Which makes no sense.[/list]

[Matt_S]

1. Show me the part where I "gave up." Sure looks to me like I argued the whole way, while also discussing the vig target, because that was also important. I didn't "consent" to that wagon, whatever that means.

2. You misread my argument. Go back and read it again. My point was that in order for him to be scum, he'd have had to been insanely stupid. I wouldn't have defined rosso's claim as insanely stupid. It was inattentive and involved a misunderstanding of how the miller role functioned in the game. But even if you do, insanely stupid things aren't the province of scum alone.

3. I argued that you were assuming quite a bit about the motivations of someone you nominally thought to be lying. I agree, RC, as pro-town, was trying to get BM lynched. But to assume, as you supposed, that RC was scum (and lying), just to get BM lynched, that seems a stretch. It doesn't even make sense for scum to do that.

1. You said, "Alright. I think RC is town, and I think approximately 13 of you are wrong. But I'm outvoted, so moving on. " In other words, you said Rosso was town but you're giving up.
2. Rosso investigating the miller is insanely stupid in my opinion. One of the only real defenses of Rosso is that he'd have to be insanely stupid to be scum. He was insanely stupid. Therefore, there was no reason to believe he wasn't scum.
3. Rosso. Insanely stupid. Need I say more?

[Matt_S]

Gah, wrong game. 'Pologies.

Lolwait, did you just go back to lurking after that accidental post?

[Matt_S]

EBWOP: Active lurking is probably a better term, since you acknowledged our existence and openly denied us content.

[Matt_S]

Are you kidding me? He hasn't even made a case. He's still telling us why RC was scum! What I see are people still so convinced they were right yesterday, that they suspect me for having a better read on rc than they did.

You don't really seem to get it. Your argument that you had a better read on him is crap. You could have just guessed that he was town, or you're scum who knew he was town. I'm going with door number 2.

PS: You're still misreading my argument. Try again.

Then please explain it in words rather than just assuming that I can read minds. Because unfortunately I can't.

[Matt_S]

In order for RC to be town, he'd have had to merely made one wrong assumption: that a miller would come up innocent to a cult cop. Was that assumption wrong?

Assuming he even noticed that Battle Mage claimed miller. Either way, I consider it to be an insanely stupid move.

But even if you say that it was insanely stupid for a cop to claim a guilty result in that scenario, what makes insanely stupid people more likely to be scum?

You haven't even been listening, have you? The only thing that could be used to defend Rosso was your little argument of "scum would have to be stupid".

Anyway, if you follow matt's ideas, you may as well lynch anyone who opposes someone else's lynch. So hop on those bandwagons, townies and scum! They'll never suspect you, even if you lynch a claimed cop!

Only your reasons were crap.

[Matt_S]

I'm getting sick of this constant back and forth without you actually answering, so I'll give you one post to actually answer my 1st point before I switch my vote.

[Matt_S]

Your first point is incorrect. I didn't give up. And even if I had, it was pretty clear that RC was going to get lynched, so, what if I had? And even if that wasn't the case, why would that make me scum?

Oh wow, I'm incorrect? Your evidence is compelling. You said you were moving on. Do I need to define "moving on" for you? When you say you think someone is town, but you're moving on, is there any interpretation other than "I'm not going to stop this wagon"? If you believed Rosso was town, why didn't you try to defend him until the end instead of moving on to vig candidates? And I'll say it again: You were occupying an ambiguous stance so you could always be partly right. If Rosso had turned up scum, you could get away with saying "good job" since you were going to stop defending him, and if you were town you could say "I was right" (which you did say). A townie would have no reason to do such a thing. Scum would have plenty of reasons to not be caught on the wrong side of a wagon.

And an argument of "scum have no reason to behave this way" is actually sort of more than little.

Except we already showed that Rosso had no idea what he was doing. You could make the exact argument of "town have no reason to behave this way".

[Matt_S]

You might notice that I still continued to argue why RC was town for the rest of the day.

After I called you out.

As scum, wouldn't I know whether or not I was right? Isn't that what you were arguing? That my arguments sucked, so I must be scum because no townie could think like I did? So, which is it? Did I know RC was town or didn't I?

You knew he wasn't mafia. He still could have turned up cult.

Indeed you might. You'd be wrong, because RC's play fit perfectly into the profile of a townie who wasn't paying attention, but you might. And even if that were true, if RC's play made no sense as town or scum, you(they, we) shouldn't have lynched someone strictly on the basis of irrational play. You might as well lynch every absent player, or every VI.

Who says it was strictly because of irrational play? Rosso couldn't remember his investigations, and he claimed to be going in alphabetical order. Rosso sounded like he was making things up as he went. And he never made a remotely convincing case for him being town.

[Matt_S]

I still don't even see how you could read "moving on" within that post as "giving my consent."

Because you moved past defending Rosso. It's not nearly as complicated as you think.

I'm not sure what I would have to gain as scum from distancing myself from the wagon by discussing vig targets.

Your distancing from the wagon was when you said that you thought Rosso was town, not the discussing the vig targets.

What would I have had to gain from distancing myself slightly from the wagon, even if that was what I was doing?

You wouldn't want to fully support the wagon in case Rosso turned up town.

So rosso was scum too dumb to bother to consider what his claimed investigation results would be? I can't believe any even cared what the reason for his N0 choice was.

I didn't care why he made his N0 choice. It's the fact that he wasn't telling the truth about it.

What is your position on vigging BM?

It's a waste of a kill.

[Matt_S]

And what would scum have to gain from lying about it?

I never said Rosso intentionally lied about it. I saw it as Rosso getting caught on his mistake.

If you had discussed the vig targets, would you be distancing yourself from the rc wagon you were on?

It's not about the discussing vig targets, it's about the not defending Rosso.

I disagree here. I think it could easily confirm BM's role. Also, the way the Vigs have been going lately tells us we need to change something. I'd say that this is actually the most logical use of the Vig tonight, or at least the safest.

I think we'd have a better outcome trying to hit mafia than testing Battle Mage.

[Matt_S]

Ten points for whoever notices what's wrong with that statement.

Accidentally lying is still lyning.

There were twelve votes on him, and farside had indicated that she was willing to hammer. Everyone had heard my defense, and there wasn't anything new worth adding at the time. You are simply wrong, and I'm not entirely certain if you're just being foolhardy or pretending to be.

The only defense you gave was "scum wouldn't do that." While we will continue to disagree on how strong that defense was, there certainly was more you could do if you believed Rosso was town.

Can we lynch Peers now?

[Matt_S]

[quote="Matt_S"]Accidentally lying is still lying. [/quote]
Dictionary.com is trying to disagree with me, but I still stand by this. But if it makes people feel better, replace "lying" with "not telling the truth".

KaleiÐoscøpe, what do you think about Peers?

[Matt_S]

Like what?

Hmm, maybe referencing some of Rosso's posts day 1 that fit the way an investigator would act? Or perhaps pointing out Rosso's dislike of cult discussion and using that as evidence that he was in fact a cult cop? And you could always find posts where Rosso seemed to be suspicious of BM and would lead to him being investigated.

And matt, am I to understand you that you would have lynched him for accidentally lying about whether or not armlx is the first name in the alphabet?

I thought the source of the falsehood was Rosso being under pressure to come up with a reason. When that reason turned out to be false, Rosso never responded with an explanation.

[Matt_S]

This is not productive posting.

Oddly enough, neither was that.

And coming from me, that means something.

Way to avoid productive posting yourself. I've yet to see anything from you that makes me rethink my vote.

[Matt_S]

I really hate this post of his:
"I think I'll unvote since people don't seem to worry about Rosso Carne. I do think I'll Vote Andycyca for the role fishing other people and I have mentioned. "

Why of course, I unvote somebody who people have a meta on. And then I vote someone for rolefishing. What do you dislike about my post?

[Matt_S]

If you guys could please comment on my ultimatum to CKD, thatd be great.

I'll keep your idea in mind for tomorrow, but deciding a lynch before the day begins is stupid.

Still waiting for Peers to do something protown.

[Matt_S]

If you guys could please comment on my ultimatum to CKD, thatd be great.

I'll keep your idea in mind for tomorrow, but deciding a lynch before the day begins is stupid.

Still waiting for Peers to do something protown.

You haven't commented on my reasons for believing him to be town - Why do you discard it?

Because in my opinion he has done too little for the town to make up for that. Besides, scum would also want as few people as possible to make informed vig choices. It looks to be a weak town tell, if that.

[Matt_S]

I disagree, I think it's advantagoues to scum to know hwere the kill's going...BM's case is an exception cause if he lives he's cleared. But generally, I don't think announcing targets is a good idea at all.

Yeah, it's bad when the scum know who'll get killed, but it's good when an informed town is helping make the vig choices. Of course, even when people make suggestions, the vig always has the final say, so scum will never fully know who will be vigged.

[Matt_S]

Vote: The SweatPants Ninja

Wow, way to give reasons. Good job there, you must be town after that awesomely persuasive case.

[Matt_S]

I offer some input. Just not as much as everyone else.

To be honest, tho? I think one of BM, TS, and CKD is scum... but only one. Their interactions are too 'real' to be part of a smokescreen... at least, based on other games I've been in with them.

You still didn't explain your vote.

[Matt_S]

You still didn't explain your vote.

Oh, I'm sorry, did I forget to give you something you could twist into using against me? My mistake. I forgot you needed people to give you rope to hang them with, and couldn't get any of your own.

It's generally customary to provide reasons why you're trying to get someone killed. Not giving reasons is about the most hurtful thing you can do for yourself.

So, what does everyone think about Peers?

[Matt_S]

I've said I think he's town. He's not looking like scum to me.

The quoted post by armlx sounds like "If BM is cult, he should be allowed to live because he killed the mafia" - I disagree with that.

I'd like more opinions though, since I think the other arguments are getting more attention because of the big posts and big people involved.

And I think armlx is actually saying that BM wouldn't have gone for animorph/Khelvaster if BMcultpoisoner wanted to crosskill mafia.

[Matt_S]

why arent we lynching matt s, he has a guilty conscious that screams scum.

Truly, this is a mystery to me as well.

If Peers turns up scum, then I'll look at you next, and if you're scum then I'll look at killa seven, too.

If I vote for CKD, will you all finally comment on Peers?

[Matt_S]

Deflecting is the act of trying to shift attention from yourself onto easy wagons.

In my experience, deflection is a null-tell. I'm often accused of it.

Deflection is not a null tell, but it is a tell that is easily abused by scum pushing a wagon. However, TSN's string of senseless accusations definitely qualifies in my book as it.

Does this mean you don't find Peers scummy?

[Matt_S]

Now that I've gotten an opinion on Peers, I'll give my opinion on the BM/CKD/TS trio.

Testing BM sounds like a waste of a vigging, but I'm very curious why BM can't explain his alternate test. I also don't know how there's even an alternate way for a hider to be confirmed.
CKD seems to really want BM tested. I can see this pointing to scum or town. If he's scum, then he wants BMcult dead. If he's town, then he wants BMcult dead or BM town confirmed. I'm tempted to go with the latter, since mafia can kill the cult on their own, but confirming a townie would suck.
TS seems to want t forgo the testing and just lynch BM. I can understand this position, but it also seems to be the scummiest of the three.

[Matt_S]

TS seems to want t forgo the testing and just lynch BM. I can understand this position, but it also seems to be the scummiest of the three.

OK, I change my mind, you're right.

Let's use a vig shot to confirm a miller that turned up guilty by the cult cop.

It's a fab idea, I don't know what I was thinking.

Is there any reason that a miller wouldn't turn up guilty to a cult cop? a.k.a., do you know of any games where a miller showed up innocent to a cult cop? Because common sense seems to support millers always giving out a guilty to sane cops.

[Matt_S]

TS, stop distracting me with your scumminess. Peers is the one who must die, not you. You can die tomorrow. I'd bet a nickel that you're scum, but I've got a quarter on Peers already.

[Matt_S]

TS, stop distracting me with your scumminess. Peers is the one who must die, not you. You can die tomorrow. I'd bet a nickel that you're scum, but I've got a quarter on Peers already.

Why do you want Peers to die?

Because I think he's scum?

[Matt_S]

I've seen maybe 2 posts by Peers where he adds anything that could be considered useful. I quoted two of his scummy posts, then requoted them yesterday, and rerequoted them today. Plus, he still hasn't explained his empty vote.

[Matt_S]

I'm not going to be able to do anything terribly important for a week since it's about time I studied for my other AP tests. I'll still keep up with things, you just won't see me.

[Matt_S]

Skitzer, stop being stupid.

[Matt_S]

I disapprove of the skitzer wagon. I approve of the Peers wagon.

[Matt_S]

I disapprove of the skitzer wagon. I approve of the Peers wagon.

I've gathered you approve of Peers

Why do you not like skitzer wagon?

Because skitzer's not Peers. And other things as well which I'll keep a secret.

[Matt_S]

Maybe I didn't make it clear enough. Skitzer's not scum.

[Matt_S]

im not gonna ride the skitzer wagon im waitin for the matt s wagon

Why does this not surprise me? I called this at the beginning of the day.

[Matt_S]

Mod:

Prod Peers please.

I'm not going to switch to the dahill wagon, because I haven't seen a convincing case other than his meta, yet I've seen him lynched in another game as town where he played pretty much the same way. So I still support Peers, TheSweatpantsNinja, and killa seven being made dead, in that order preferably.

As for a massclaim, I'm neutral leaning slightly against. I think it's a little too early.

[Matt_S]

Mod:

Prod Peers please.

I'm not going to switch to the dahill wagon, because I haven't seen a convincing case other than his meta, yet I've seen him lynched in another game as town where he played pretty much the same way. So I still support Peers, TheSweatpantsNinja, and killa seven being made dead, in that order preferably.

As for a massclaim, I'm neutral leaning slightly against. I think it's a little too early.

His meta? who said that? where?

I thought id already posted this case-when i originally voted for him. I'll hook it out in a sec if it ever existed...

BM

armlx said that dahill's not playing the way he expects dahilltown to play. And all you did was say that his posts were scummy when you voted him.

[Matt_S]

Lollercoaster. I just spotted something. I couldve sworn i thought Dahill was town earlier, but upon a reread of his posts in isolation, i'm seeing SCUM written all over him.

Unvote, Vote: Dahill1

Let the bandwagon roll!

BM

ah ok, apparently all i posted was this. But, i suggest you all do a pbpa of Dahill's posts, and i'll do the same, and we'll all come together with our findings!

BM

K, but I'm a little uncomfortable after a dahill mislynch in another game.

[Matt_S]

hey everyone i'm the replacement
can somone tell me briefly why everyone is voting for lloyd and/or the "highlights" so far

Doesn't want to read the game. Bad.

haha well i'll read first then vote

Decides to get busy and read.

i'll agree i want killa seven to be more active in his responses instead of just "yea" "lol" etc.
so for now

Vote: Killa Seven

killa seven--who do you think are scum? please explain! if you give a reasonable answer i'll consider unvoting you

Looking at the times of his early posts, I'd say dahill hadn't done much reading yet. Also his vote is very... odd. Do something protown and I may unvote you.

so you're saying that if we don't post at least paragraph for votes we're automatically scum?
the "policy" should be as long as you have a good reason...quality is better than quantity

Not game related, really.

antithesis--that was my fault. i believe someone said that in another game i'm in and mixed it up. sorry!

Not game related

EBWOP: now i'm re-reading my post and i see that it was my response to Post 765

Figures out that he was talking about this game, even though it's not relevant to catching scum

i like how i'm not on either list
a good thing?

Not scumhunting

because you suck..


scum

lol

maybe he's saying that he is a miller and millers should stick together (like masons), so your vote is his vote?

Still not scumhunting.

well he could still lurk with a vote, but you're right no vote gives him an excuse somewhat

I believe this post is agreeing with me. It's easy to pretend to scumhunt when someone else does the work.

lloyd,
can you explain the whole miller mason thing?
and also what do you think BM will do with your vote

First question has a purpose. The second question is stupid.

dahill1, I'll explain what you are asking another time, but not now.

hmm interesting
i feel compelled to trust you for some reason
so i will for now

"Hmm, I need a reason to switch my stance off this guy. Oh I know! I trust him!"

odds are the pressure is being fueled by at least 1 scumbag

QFT hadn't thought of that

agreeing

why not claim now?

He says something logical, but scum like claims as well

why not claim now?

noted

i was just pointing out, he said he will claim 3 days before deadline, so what difference does it make between now and then?

See above

it should also be noted that a stupid vig (and I have made his mistake before) is still a town vig and if he is lying then the real vig will kill him tonight..so killa seven is not the lynch today.

*sigh*

unvote

just following someone else's logic

killa seven,
if you are truly a vig, then vig yourself.

Not helping

it was a joke

Not helping

Vig
Nano targeted JDGA and no I don't know why since I didn't do it. I only have a shotgun to use as the vig. Please get rid of Killa now.
PS. I can try and summarize the flavor text if needed.

woah there!

vote killa seven

also not vig

This is what anybody would do. no points 4 u

because you're killa seven, and she's farside

and also if you're lying and we tell her to kill you at night, you'll get in an extra kill

This, too, is what anyone would do.

farside is lying, id like to hear who she killed and why. if shes really the vig why not let her kill me at night and have no one protect me and vise versa? and how is her claim more believeable? i coulda lied and said yea i killed the bodyguard no i was truthfull, my kill was against a cult recruiter, and if their is a cult would they be alowwed to kill and with the mafia that would be 3 kills.

what possilbe motivation could she have to lie? if she is lying she would be either vigged tonight, or lynched tomorrow.

major QFT!

Just agreeing again

i think its more than 50/50 that there's a SK (serial killer) since there were three kills on the first night. what everyone is arguing about now is whether or not killa seven is the SK. and if farside is lying as well or not.
so far, the main case is that killa seven is the SK because they usually slit peoples' throats when using the night action, and the vigilante (vig) shotguns people. plus, farside also claimed vig and it is unlikely there are two vigs. also, farside has no reason for lying because the real vig would just kill her the next night. so to conclude, it is generally accepted that killa seven is the SK and should be lynched today.

so vote for killa seven

Such basic logic to try and seem helpful.

i think its more than 50/50 that there's a SK (serial killer) since there were three kills on the first night. what everyone is arguing about now is whether or not killa seven is the SK. and if farside is lying as well or not.
so far, the main case is that killa seven is the SK because they usually slit peoples' throats when using the night action, and the vigilante (vig) shotguns people. plus, farside also claimed vig and it is unlikely there are two vigs. also, farside has no reason for lying because the real vig would just kill her the next night. so to conclude, it is generally accepted that killa seven is the SK and should be lynched today.

so vote for killa seven

NOT. YET.



Oh and while i read this, i recalled that this is Jordans first modded Large game, i think. As such, i dont think he would do anything MEGA-crazy...

BM

i meant eventually..i agree we should have more discussion before lynching, and i think TS said he was at L-1 but i'm pretty sure he only has 12 votes right now.

"Oh yes, let's have discussion. I don't want to go first though"

viewtopic.php?p=327817#327817

lloyd proxied his vote to kelly chen, who voted for him twice using both votes. he ended up getting lynched and was a townie

To search for this takes some effort. He gets a few points for this.

I get the odd feeling KS isn't getting lynched today and that someone's trying to distract us from it. Why aren't we trying to convince people to hammer him, again?

oh no..he's

definitely

getting lynched today
but we don't want the hammer yet for more conversation

He's not exactly contributing much discussion

We are still looking for a replacement. Deadline is still in 3 days.

Request Deadline Postponement till a Replacement is found.

BM

2nd.

3rd. Don't need any more dead power roles.

4th'd. Not only do we need a possible claim from TLP (or said replacement) discussion, even if the day has been extremely long, is usually good, especially on the track we are going. Also, I support a TS vig if we don't get a claim from TLP and the extension isn't granted.

And, for clarification if a vig is NK'd their kill will not count, but if an SK is NK'd their kill will? Or would the kill count regardless of vig or SK role?

5th request.
If the mod doesn't respon to the extention request I'm leaning towards Lloyd.

6thed.

7th
and also this

If Jesus decended from the heavens and saved you from lynch you'd still get roleblocked, sorry man but you're a dead man walking at the moment

No comment

ive allready accepted my lynch i was just pointing out i could help get rid of who the town wanted and wouldnt go back on my word and if i did u can lynch me tommorow.

i believe this is the bargaining stage

Not helping

Gah, I fell behind...I left off at like 2nd for the motion, I need to take all this in. Anything important happen that I missed?

xtoxm replaced tlp and claimed vanilla townie

Kthx.

seconding lloyd for next vig target

What? But you trusted him!!!

nthing it then

No Comment.

wait
lets do pies idea.

we all get off k7 aND tonight have him vig himself.

or its almost deadline, so kill him.

i already suggested this, but to no avail

This is just a stupid idea.

i want to hear from Rosso first
then decide who we want to lynch

Well, he sure wants to end the day fast

ok guys.

i definitely claimed cultie cop day 1.

but for all of you who missed it, im cultie cop.

i can't seem to find it..
but why did you investigate BM? wasn't it obvious you'd get a guilty on him?

No comment

So, wait, I'm confused. Is 'cultie cop' a cop who's a member of a cult, or a cop who determines if someone is in a cult? If the former, we need to lynch Rosso eventually, but after he helps us find the scum, right? If the latter... we need to lynch BM because there's a good chance he's the cult recruiter, not a mason, right?

It seems too simple, there must be something I'm missing.

2nd

3rd i'm basically just confused about this whole situation

No comment.

i'm kind of confused again..why are people hesitant to believe RC would be lying?
is it because of just general scumminess or something else?

Doesn't understand why his mislynch is taking so long.

Dear BM and Nemesis,

Seriously, just quote the line.

Please!!!!!

Seriously, just quote the line.

Thank you, that is all.
--dahill1

P.S.

Seriously, just quote the line.

Not helping

vote rosso carne

seems a little strange how he would forget his n0 investigation, then say it was alphabetical order even though there were two people before armlx

No comment

And herein lies the problem Rosso. You don't post enough for your own good. You got away with little content Day 1 but the games has stepped up a bit. Join in the Hunting. I myself haven't done very well this game, but I'm hoping to change that over the next few game days. If you can make a decent length post defending yourself I'm sure some of the less certain players on your case will back off. When that happens you can prove your worth to the us by making larger, more detailed posts more often, participating in the Hunting as it were. If you were to participate more you could easily lower people's suspicions of you. Most of them are based on inactivity and willingness to hammer people, no matter what.

this is definitely not why i'm voting for rosso, and i don't think it's why anyone else is voting for him either

No comment

I want to know why people are against the Rosso lynch.

sweatpantsninja, answer this before accusing me of anything

"Why isn't my mislynch working?" Normally I'd think this would make me a hypocrite, but dahill was never very committed to the wagon.

i think Imat would be a good vig target if RC comes up scum

Directing the vig without giving reasons

upon rereading khelvaster (animorph), he was always wishy washy about BM. one post he would be defending BM, the next attacking him.

Thanks for the info, but where are you going with this?

upon rereading khelvaster (animorph), he was always wishy washy about BM. one post he would be defending BM, the next attacking him.

Indeed, and I am EXTREMELY leery of the Miller/Hider claim, that's the kind of claim that's just tooooo scummalicious.

The Miller/Hider claim explains two of the problems that scum might encounter in a game. The first problem is that they may be investigated and found guilty. Conveniently, BM declared himself a miller. The second problem is that the scum must explain his continued survival night after night. This is especially important if we have living vig, and the miller doesn't get nigthkilled and continues to live. So "hider" and "miller" makes a perfect combo for a scum claim.

Also, I see BM is very active and scheming. That's his scum persona, not his town persona.

The Miller/Hider claim is the real clincher. I don't believe it. I believe that BM is just plain scum.

vote: Battle Mage

QFT i was going to write something like this in my next post but you pretty much summed it up

Vote BM

Hmm, something seems wrong with this...

Dear dahill1,

Please 'splain Rosso's guilty on him first.

oops

unvote

that does make a huge hole in my argument

It's not your argument, you borrowed it again.

Dear dahill1,

Please 'splain Rosso's guilty on him first.

oops

unvote

that does make a huge hole in my argument

EBWOP: the part about the khelvaster/BM connection
he still could be cult

We know.

Cult also = scum

revote BM

sorry meant to do this last post

Sure you did. Your last post was an EBWOP of your unvote

Vote: Dahill

I'm not all for the vote and unvote you just did. Usually when I've played you are aggressive this game you seem to be sitting back more and just agreeing with people. I don't see BM as the lynch thank you.

i havent really played many large games, but i guess i'm just a little more laid-back in them
as for the matt_s/TSPN argument, to me it seems to me almost like a townie fighting another townie
i only say "almost" because i'm leaning towards a little bit more with matt_s atm, but i'm waiting for TSPN to respond to the above post

You didn't explain that vote/unvote thing you did.

Also, I think there's a good chance armlx is scum. So far today, he's directed the vig to try and kill someone who we know isn't mafia (whome picks up more scum points for that too), and before that, waffled on whether or not he thought I was scum. Yesterday, he was a key driver of the RC wagon. Matt_S is still highest on my list, but I'm not like armlx much right now.

we know he isn't mafia, but he still could be cult

Thank you for restating that.

unvote Battle Mage

there's no point in lynching him today if Farside is going to use her vig on him, which can basically confirm him.
also, Imat, you seemed to be one of the main people who Khelvaster was changing his mind about. as i said before, with BM he seemed to constantly change his views, but we know that BM can't be mafia. with you, first Khelvaster agrees with you, then FoS's you, UnFoS's you, votes you, etc.
1) why do you think he kept switching his opinions of you?
2) were you ever suspicious of him and why? if not, then why not?
3) who do you think is likely to be scum right now?

So we know they aren't partners, but we're analyzing their interactions?

BM, what would the easier way to confirm you be?

No comment.

I am still pro on testing BM, and cannot understand the level of anti-testophobia

i agree with this statement
waiting on imat

What are you waiting on Imat for?

*sigh* Imat's gonna get replaced. Oh well, I'll just wait for his replacement
in the meantime, i can see how TS could think BM is cult because Rosso was the cult cop, because honestly, i thought that at first too. but now it seems pretty obvious to me that the miller would show up guilty to everyone, so i think TS should drop the BM attacks. i agree that that is the kind of case against someone that scum can easily pounce on

He's very noncommittal isn't he?

*sigh* Imat's gonna get replaced. Oh well, I'll just wait for his replacement
in the meantime, i can see how TS could think BM is cult because Rosso was the cult cop, because honestly, i thought that at first too. but now it seems pretty obvious to me that the miller would show up guilty to everyone, so i think TS should drop the BM attacks. i agree that that is the kind of case against someone that scum can easily pounce on

That point was brought up ages ago...

i still see people talking about it on this page..

Not helping

i can see why people could be bandwagonning me in terms of my meta and i would probably have done the same thing if i were you because i admit: i'm not too active in this game, and i apologize.
however, just because i'm not as active doesn't mean i'm scum.
the good part is that if i am lynched, it will break a meta on me

There's more on him than just activity from what other people say.

Yeah, that last post is lame enough for me.

Unvote, Vote dahill

heh sorry armlx
i know i'm usually better than this

"plz don't lynch me"

Initials are fine, capiche?

-DH

Not helping

other things as well which I'll keep a secret.

yay for softclaims
also, can someone explain to me why people keep wanting to lynch BM when we have established that we aren't going to right now?

Not helping, really

i'll be willing to get on a CKD wagon
and im always in favor of a massclaim

"I'll bandwagon this guy who I've never expressed suspicion of."

The more my vote sits here, the more this feels like its going to turn into a default lynch.

Unvote, Vote dahill

Thats better.

very quick to compromise arent ya?

BM

Meh, thought he was scummy before and wasn't really feeling the skitzer thing. Plus, now he supports a mass claim.

see my sig

No comment

i thought it was my meta? hm guess i was wrong

No comment

i thought it was my meta? hm guess i was wrong

what?
who is your top suspect atm?
When are you going to vote for Skitzer?

BM

i thought most of the case was the meta
top suspect = Imat
i believe the softclaims, if not for those i probably would be voting for him

I've yet to see you explain your suspicion of Imat

i thought it was my meta? hm guess i was wrong

what?
who is your top suspect atm?
When are you going to vote for Skitzer?

BM

i thought most of the case was the meta
top suspect = Imat
i believe the softclaims, if not for those i probably would be voting for him

I dont have much of a meta on you, so it doesnt comprise any of my suspicions.

Wait a sec. You believe his softclaims, and yet he is your top suspect? Your top suspect isnt even voteworthy?

BM

sorry should have made that clearer. my top suspect is Imat. i believe the softclaims about Skitzer. i'm waiting to hear from Imat's replacement until i vote

Why?

Because skitzer's not Peers. And other things as well which I'll keep a secret.

Maybe I didn't make it clear enough. Skitzer's not scum.

the softclaims were by matt_s

Oh yeah, I remember that

[Matt_S]

unvote Battle Mage

there's no point in lynching him today if Farside is going to use her vig on him, which can basically confirm him.
also, Imat, you seemed to be one of the main people who Khelvaster was changing his mind about. as i said before, with BM he seemed to constantly change his views, but we know that BM can't be mafia. with you, first Khelvaster agrees with you, then FoS's you, UnFoS's you, votes you, etc.
1) why do you think he kept switching his opinions of you?
2) were you ever suspicious of him and why? if not, then why not?
3) who do you think is likely to be scum right now?

So we know they aren't partners, but we're analyzing their interactions?

if you can't see my suspicions on Imat, then please reread the post more carefully

I see it now. The fact that you mentioned BM three times and Imat only once confused me. The rest of the analysis stands, and I'm tempted to shoot for 50% success against you.

wow. Just WOW. I didnt mean you had to quote them all!

It makes for easier reference I didn't realize how much space it took until after I previewed it, and there's no way I'd go back and change it all.

[Matt_S]

The fact that Matt was so anxious to do so could also be seen in that light, although atm, im just happy that he has given us something to discuss.

I was in the middle of it before you offered the vote protection. Then I wondered if it'd look suspicious. I figured it would, but I've done too many unpopular things to back down now.

In regards to dahill's question about Lloyd's proxy vote, there's not too many responses that can be given. "What are you going to do with that vote?" "Vote someone with it." "Okay." The only difference is you're asking person A what person B would do with person A's vote, which isn't that different from just asking person A about what person B would do with their own vote.

[Matt_S]

Sorry, where was this?

Where he asks about Lloyd's proxy vote and gets a response of "I won't respond now":

hmm interesting
i feel compelled to trust you for some reason
so i will for now

Also, are these posts in order? You seem to have Dahill jumping all over the place. 0.o

Unless I screwed up, that's chronological order.

Looking over all of his posts one by one, all the relatively small things add up, and it isn't so small any more. The dahill in my other game had redeeming moments and a few moments like here. I'm pretty sure I'll try to go for 50% against dahill, but I'll wait for him to respond.

[Matt_S]

I say we do BM's alternative test. Tomorrow, BM will explain what the hell the test was and how it confirms him. If it's unsatisfactory, we lynch him. Problem solved.

[Matt_S]

@BM: I need some clarification. If farside dies tonight for whatever reason or otherwise is unable to report her night action, will we be able to know if your test worked?

[Matt_S]

@BM: I need some clarification. If farside dies tonight for whatever reason or otherwise is unable to report her night action, will we be able to know if your test worked?

yeh i thought about this too. Yeh, that wouldnt be a problem. The success of the test will be pretty self-explanatory regardless of whether Farside was killed or not. Her kills would still be seen after all, and the fact i am not dead would confirm that she was satisfied with my affiliation.

BM

This post makes me slightly ucomfortable, but I think that I may know what your test is.

[Matt_S]

@BM: I need some clarification. If farside dies tonight for whatever reason or otherwise is unable to report her night action, will we be able to know if your test worked?

yeh i thought about this too. Yeh, that wouldnt be a problem. The success of the test will be pretty self-explanatory regardless of whether Farside was killed or not. Her kills would still be seen after all, and the fact i am not dead would confirm that she was satisfied with my affiliation.

BM

This post makes me slightly ucomfortable, but I think that I may know what your test is.

really? shhh then.

Don't worry, your possible secret is safe with me.

BM, just wondering 1 thing that I'm pretty sure I asked before: Have you asked Jordan if you die for hiding with scum, or just read your role PM for it? Its something that he could have forgotten, and if he by chance did that actually makes your role much more powerful.

I may just be missing this, but if he does die by hiding with scum, how does that help? For us to know who he targets, he has to announce it. That means scum gets to kill that person and BM on one night, unless BM pulls WIFOM on the mafia, which makes him unreliable anyways.

Her satisfaction would not be confirmation of anything, oh Great One.

There's obviously more to it than that.

And I'm willing to go for 50/50 against dahill.

Unvote, Vote dahill1

. Just don't forget Peers though.

[Matt_S]

Well, every night he wakes up alive is +1 confirmed town.

Ah, I wasn't thinking about the confirming townies part, just the finding scum part.

BM, is your plan to hide with someone who you feel will die (or if you have been hiding the hide with scum thing, presumably CKD) and be confirmed by death? If so, have you done the math on if that speeds up the game by a day in the worst case scenario?

I doubt this is it since it involves too much guesswork and not enough living. If I'm right, then I think secrecy is the best option.

Hi Matt,

I'm Pie.

You are right a lot.

Hello Pie, and thank you very much

[Matt_S]

is there a way you can communicate to me what you think you know, without implicitly revealing information that is best kept hidden?

BM

I'm trying to think of a way. I'll try some vague questions that you'll only answer properly if we're having a mind meld.
1. Will farside know pretty much 100% that you're telling the truth?
2. If farside weren't alive, would you be able to prove to me that you were town.
And now the cynical side of me has a question which doesn't require a mind meld.
3. If the cult had a backup recruiter to begin with, and you're really a cultist, how do we know you aren't going to recruit farside?

[Matt_S]

^BTW, it would help a lot if you gave vague responses along with a yes or no answer.

[Matt_S]

Matt_S, scenario 3 is actually impossible in a balanced game. Just saying.

You mean the backup recruiter part, or the vig being recruited part? If it's the latter, then let's suppose hypothetically that a vig could be recruited, but would lose their vig ability.

[Matt_S]

No, the back up recruiter. Killing the first one is usually hard enough and the threat of a cult usually causes every other group (scum and town) to drop their plans and aim for the recruiter.

And ability loss is usually the case, btw.

This makes me a lot less paranoid.

[Matt_S]

is there a way you can communicate to me what you think you know, without implicitly revealing information that is best kept hidden?

BM

I'm trying to think of a way. I'll try some vague questions that you'll only answer properly if we're having a mind meld.
1. Will farside know pretty much 100% that you're telling the truth?
2. If farside weren't alive, would you be able to prove to me that you were town.
And now the cynical side of me has a question which doesn't require a mind meld.
3. If the cult had a backup recruiter to begin with, and you're really a cultist, how do we know you aren't going to recruit farside?

I'd like to make a clarification. For #2, assume farside doesn't get a kill for some reason.

Yeah, cults are probably the most powerful anti-town group used. 1 cult leader wins a 20 person game in the same time as a 3 man mafia, and losing a recruit doesn't even really slow them down that much where as losing a mafia member is a full day added to the game. One of the main reasons I can find against the poison kill being a cult recruit is that the cult turning into a mafia after the leader dies is really close to over powered.

I'm too lazy to look back to see if you said this earlier, but do you think that the poison killing is by a protown role or another 3rd party killing group?

[Matt_S]

The discussion is at a standstill because of you BM. You said you could prove something before night choices were due. I don't see how.
Don't be pissy because I wish the discussion to end and to move on. Reminder 3 days and 99 pages. I would hate to have more replacements.

Just think it over during the night before doing anything. Even if I don't really know what BM's doing, I'm sure your patience will be rewarded.

I suggest we stop discussing the testing and start discussing who to make dead.

[Matt_S]

I'm still for a dahill lynch, but a TS lynch doesn't seem like a bad alternative.

[Matt_S]

I am up for a lynch of any of the 4 people I listed as scummy, however I want to wait for Imat to return before proceeding.

woo someone else who finds Imat scummy

Do you still have no defense? Just curious.

[Matt_S]

Dahill1 presents a very convincing argument...

[Matt_S]

Matt_S presents a strong case against dahill1, and is acting very protown, as he's not even trying to setup dahill1 for a lynch, just showing how useless he has been.

I feel mildly insulted.

[Matt_S]

Matt_S presents a strong case against dahill1, and is acting very protown, as he's not even trying to setup dahill1 for a lynch, just showing how useless he has been.

I feel mildly insulted.

Yea, you shouldn't. I'm saying you presented a solid case on Dahill's ineffectualness in this game, without trying to setup a target to lynch (necissarily).

Pronoun ambiguity gets me every time. My bad.

[Matt_S]

Just posting before I have to go to my brother's graduation.

I still feel dahill is the best lynch, and I am mildly against TS and Imat lynches.

[Matt_S]

Just posting before I have to go to my brother's graduation.

I still feel dahill is the best lynch, and I am mildly against TS and Imat lynches.

i can understand being against the TS lynch, but why Imat?

Because I don't see a case on Imat, nor do I think I'll be able to make a good one.

[Matt_S]

Ok, Dahill is at -2 if Armlx's count is right. I'll be here to drop the hammer tomorrow. DO NOT HAMMER BEFORE I GET THE CHANCE TO POST.
If you do, you will join my Black List, and i'll make it my sole ambition to see you hang.

Thanks,
BM

oh forgot to mention. i am a special supersaint that kills the hammerer only if it's BM

You know, if you want to live, you could try defending yourself. It may just work.

[Matt_S]

I'm 100% sure that saying 100% sure is just hyperbole.

[Matt_S]

BM's plan is sounding more and more like what I thought it was.

[Matt_S]

BM, your way is dumb and basically saying "Farside, don't pick me". Not even a confirming plan.

Believe me, there's more to his plan.

[Matt_S]

BM, your way is dumb and basically saying "Farside, don't pick me". Not even a confirming plan.

Believe me, there's more to his plan.

See, you weren't supposed to say that.

You weren't supposed to say that I wasn't supposed to say that.

Besides, if there weren't more to it, BM's got to know that he'll die tomorrow.

[Matt_S]

In other words, whatever happens tonight, my affiliation will be in no doubt tomorrow. The only difference is whether or not we lose a protown power role in order to do so.

I like this plan. We could lose a power role to confirm a miller/hider.

I think he's referring to himself. But I don't know anymore.

[Matt_S]

Farside: Did BM approach you with drugs during the night?

Vote Peers

. Stop distracting me from this, people.

[Matt_S]

You seemed to confuse yourself plenty with the dahill analysis

I blame BM.

And it's celeb now, not peers.

I seem to have missed that notice. This puts me at an impasse.

Unvote, Vote CKD

for shits and giggles.

[Matt_S]

I blame BM as well for lying to the town about his role for pretty much no reason.

My theory is that he wasn't lying, and that people are told when they are targeted by him.

[Matt_S]

Double post: Damn mafia probably roleblocked BM.

[Matt_S]

No, I'm 90% sure BM was just lying. He would do that.

I guess that just goes to show you that lynch all liars sucks. Or something like that. There's a moral here somewhere.

[Matt_S]

Holy crap, I just remembered that I had a dream about mafiascum a few nights ago. It was scary because BM was calling me by my full name.

[Matt_S]

Vigging CKD > lynch. Lynch elsewhere = more info.

That's much better than my idea.

Unvote

. There's too much wifom about killing him.

[Matt_S]

I

finally

was able to read the full thread. Yes, all 112 pages of it.

I have comments to make, but there is a chain of questioning that I need to resolve first. I have a damn good reason, but revealing it immediately would be stupid. I will reveal the reason before the end of the day.

The first question: Matt_S, how long have you known that skitzer is town?

If Matt_S avoids answering, he gets lynched today. Period.

Why are you rolefishing? There, now try and lynch me.

Vote Celebloki.

All of the votes that Peers made seem poor. And comments like "Let's see if we can get a worth-while claim out of this." push me the wrong way.

[Matt_S]

I

finally

was able to read the full thread. Yes, all 112 pages of it.

I have comments to make, but there is a chain of questioning that I need to resolve first. I have a damn good reason, but revealing it immediately would be stupid. I will reveal the reason before the end of the day.

The first question: Matt_S, how long have you known that skitzer is town?

If Matt_S avoids answering, he gets lynched today. Period.

Why are you rolefishing? There, now try and lynch me.

Vote Celebloki.

All of the votes that Peers made seem poor. And comments like "Let's see if we can get a worth-while claim out of this." push me the wrong way.

There are three reasons that I can think of that you would be so firm that skitzer is town.

I know that one of those possible reasons is invalid, to the extent that if you claim that specific reason you are almost certainly scum (>99%).

Understood?

Vote: MattS

as incentive.

Does that justify your rolefishing?

[Matt_S]

You're asking for information I don't feel comfortable giving at this point.

[Matt_S]

I don't like Kscopes attempts to be logical this game. Its off putting.

lol

I think what he's trying to say is that a townie lynch for the town isn't as bad as a mafia lynch is for the mafia.

[Matt_S]

And trust me, you don't want to vig Kscope.

[Matt_S]

Kscope's not scum either.

[Matt_S]

I have role-based information. I've made it clear what the information is, and the role is irrelevant.

[Matt_S]

I thought about breadcrumbing, but I never quite got around to it.

Somehow I think you're only doing this because you were the cop.

[Matt_S]

Matt, since you have already stated you didnt breadcrumb, i think this is a safe question..do you typically breadcrumb in games? if so, do you have a completed game that can be referenced. Have you ever breadcrumbed as scum?

I've got one complete game here, and I didn't breadcrumb. The few other places where I played mafia were just too simple for things like breadcrumbs.

[Matt_S]

I know why Matt_S knows I'm town. Matt_S is incorrect on one point, though. There is a breadcrumb. It's not very obvious unless you know the whole of it.

Well, that's not necessarily a good breadcrumb though, if you're talking about what I think you're talking about.

[Matt_S]

If Matt_S is semi-claiming what I think he is

If you think I'm semi-claiming cop, you're fully wrong.

[Matt_S]

Guys, please... Celebloki needs to die already.

[Matt_S]

Guys, please... Celebloki needs to die already.

Why?

Because Peers lived too long, and every time I've been distracted from a Peers lynch, bad stuff happened.

[Matt_S]

^I endorse this product and/or service.

It's because Peers made similar posts to this in regards to TheSweatpantsNinja that I want to lynch you before TheSweatpantsNinja.

[Matt_S]

You know, if it weren't for the fact that I know Kscope is town, I'd probably side with you guys. But Kscope's town.

[Matt_S]

Unvote

I'm going to do another readthrough today.

Aww. Come back!

[Matt_S]

Tarh's not back yet. I figured he'd jump on this opportunity now that skitzer's under suspicion again. Even though he's town.

[Matt_S]

Mr. S I get a mostly neutral read on, I'd like to hear an explanation of your knowledge of skitzer as protown.

Please, call me Matt. Mr. S is my father. *waits for laughter to die down. or start*. I don't feel comfortable doing a full claim at this point.

[Matt_S]

It confuses me that people don't question my softclaim, while also thinking the people I say are town are scum. And I miss Tarh's fishing.

[Matt_S]

EBWOP: I should add to my last question, "Was there a time in the game

before day 4 started

when Matt said that he was sure that skitzer/K-scope were town?"

I mentioned skitzer was town yesterday I'm thinking, and Kscope today.

[Matt_S]

EBWOP: I should add to my last question, "Was there a time in the game

before day 4 started

when Matt said that he was sure that skitzer/K-scope were town?"

I mentioned skitzer was town yesterday I'm thinking, and Kscope today.

Fine, fine. Then who do you find scum at the moment then?

Celebloki for reasons I've been distracted from many times in the past. Where I go from there is conditional.

[Matt_S]

BM, help me lynch Celebloki. People keep distracting me.

[Matt_S]

We've established that not announcing targets is good. That doesn't mean the mafia won't roleblock her still.

[Matt_S]

There's so many potential distractions again. It may just be because this game is large, but I'm getting the feeling that some of the distractions are intentional.

[Matt_S]

Dude, I'd rather have skitzer not die at this point.